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| mithro | jphr: image a game between say 3 players and write out a "script" of how a game might play out | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| mithro | and compare that to how it might play out with your adaption | 00:00 |
| jphr | mithro: ok, now application wise, should I consider completely rehauling the application and adapting the rules of risk? or should I include it as a serious option | 00:01 |
| jphr | mithro: ok you just answered it | 00:01 |
| jphr | lol | 00:01 |
| mithro | jphr: you work work with non-simultaneous turns (IE Player 1 goes, then Player 2 goes) - but it would be more interesting (and fun) if it everyone worked at once | 00:02 |
| jphr | mithro: forgive my ignorance, how do other TP rulesets deal with conflicts when orders are executed? Say territory A attacks territory B, but B also attacks A? | 00:04 |
| mithro | but the player one issues a small change, then gets the results, then another small change, etc is not one I would be interested in | 00:04 |
| mithro | jphr: up to the ruleset :) | 00:04 |
| jphr | mithro: good to know. come on! you wont write my proposal and ruleset for me!?!? | 00:04 |
| mithro | minisec and mtsec don't have an "attack" order you just move to the same location an an enemy | 00:05 |
| mithro | jphr: with the people on the discuss list that isn't really funny at the moment :( | 00:05 |
| jphr | mithro: that is sad to hear :( | 00:05 |
| mithro | I think I'm just tired at the moment | 00:06 |
| andrei | mithro, Is it really that bad? | 00:06 |
| jphr | If its anything like the end of term crunch its probably pretty sucky | 00:07 |
| jphr | err, out of context sorry :P | 00:07 |
| andrei | mithro, By the way, does TP need more servers? | 00:07 |
| andrei | mithro, I have a way of getting hosting.. fast hosting on good machines | 00:08 |
| mithro | andrei: well - not really at the moment, once we start running tournaments and stuff we might | 00:08 |
| jphr | mithro: brain fart, I don't have to scrap any of my Traditional Risk proposal, I can just create a second proposal for modified risk | 00:08 |
| andrei | mithro, Okies :) tell me when it's needed | 00:09 |
| mithro | tpserver-cpp doesn't really get slow at the moment until you have 20,000 objects | 00:09 |
| andrei | mithro, I can get either two csclubs to host it (on nice university servers with decent boxes) | 00:09 |
| andrei | mithro, erm connections not servers | 00:09 |
| andrei | mithro, Nice; well if it gets slow I can optimize :) (I love squeezing every last bit of performance out of C++ code, it's great) | 00:11 |
| jphr | well i best be off to bed, tty all later | 00:11 |
| mithro | andrei: I would not be suprised if you could increase tpserver-cpp's turn generation performance by a couple of orders of magnitude | 00:11 |
| mithro | andrei: but there are much more important things at the moment | 00:12 |
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| andrei | mithro, Heh, I'll add it to my list of things to randomly hack on (nothing like having a slow evening and being too tried to read papers) | 00:12 |
| mithro | andrei: I think we really need random code cleanup first :) | 00:13 |
| andrei | mithro, Ah; I can do that as well. Both are essentially mindless :P | 00:13 |
| andrei | mithro, Can't be as bad as freeciv's codebase.. | 00:13 |
| mithro | i've been doing some cleanup of minisec | 00:13 |
| mithro | andrei: don't be so sure ;) | 00:13 |
| andrei | mithro, Well.. at least it's more modular :P | 00:14 |
| mithro | I really want minisec to be a "demo" ruleset that all the newbs can look at | 00:14 |
| mithro | but it needs lots of love | 00:14 |
| andrei | Ah, yeah; it really has to be clean in that case. Well, I might have free time again in about 3 weeks, so I might hack on it a bit | 00:15 |
| SmokingRope | so with the libtpproto-cpp game layer, do you have to explicitly send frames or is that automatic? | 00:17 |
| mithro | andrei: Lee started a really good ruleset book | 00:18 |
| mithro | but hasn't had time to work on it | 00:18 |
| andrei | mithro, Hmm, I'll take a look. Do you have a link? | 00:18 |
| mithro | http://git.thousandparsec.net/gitweb/gitweb.cgi?p=ruleset-book.git;a=summary | 00:19 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/1jDs> (at git.thousandparsec.net) | 00:19 |
| mithro | all latexy ;) | 00:19 |
| andrei | SmokingRope, No. And .. frames? :P | 00:20 |
| andrei | mithro, Nice! I love latex | 00:20 |
| mithro | andrei: I find it frustrating but kind of cool :) | 00:20 |
| bddebian | frick. Gutsy doesn't have python-pkg-resources? | 00:20 |
| SmokingRope | frames :P ? :P | 00:20 |
| SmokingRope | http://thousandparsec.net/tp/dev/documents/libtpproto-cpp/html/classTPProto_1_1Frame.html | 00:21 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/1jDt> (at thousandparsec.net) | 00:21 |
| mithro | bddebian: what is python-pkg-resources | 00:21 |
| mithro | wow, I didn't remeber that libtpproto-cpp has doco :P | 00:21 |
| SmokingRope | it's more of an api summary than documentation | 00:22 |
| mithro | wow | 00:22 |
| mithro | http://thousandparsec.net/tp/dev/documents/python/dev/python-tp-doc/ | 00:22 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/1jDw> (at thousandparsec.net) | 00:22 |
| SmokingRope | is this stuff i'm looking at completely out of date? LOL | 00:22 |
| greywhind | mithro: are the servers having issues at the moment? | 00:22 |
| bddebian | mithro: I dunno, you're stupid package needs it! :) | 00:22 |
| bddebian | s/you're/your/ | 00:23 |
| mithro | greywhind: they seem to be having issues | 00:23 |
| greywhind | mithro: ok. | 00:23 |
| mithro | bddebian: they do? | 00:23 |
| mithro | greywhind: good time to get a server running locally | 00:23 |
| bddebian | from pkg_resources import <foo> | 00:23 |
| greywhind | mithro: well, i removed commented code from the Resource overlay... i wanted to test it just to make sure i didn't break anything before pushing | 00:24 |
| mithro | greywhind: good idea | 00:24 |
| mithro | bddebian: oh - it comes from python-setup | 00:24 |
| mithro | tools | 00:24 |
| mithro | s/\r// | 00:24 |
| mithro | you shouldn't actually need it either - it's only needed when you don't have a sane packaging system :P | 00:25 |
| bddebian | *cough* | 00:25 |
| bddebian | So use Gentoo ;-P | 00:25 |
| mithro | bddebian: with debian you shouldn't need pkg-resources | 00:26 |
| mithro | as apt handles dependencies properly | 00:26 |
| bddebian | I needed it in unstable | 00:26 |
| mithro | you need python-setuptools to get it to build - but not to run | 00:26 |
| bddebian | I was told not to use python-setuptools | 00:26 |
| mithro | oh? | 00:27 |
| _brennan | woot my app is in | 00:28 |
| mithro | PSF is up to 19 apps, come on people ;) | 00:29 |
| andrei | PSF? | 00:30 |
| bddebian | Aye, PSF? | 00:30 |
| mithro | Python Software Foundation | 00:31 |
| andrei | Ah | 00:31 |
| mithro | we have 7 which is actually quite good | 00:31 |
| _brennan | lol, i can put like 20 copies of my app in if you want XD | 00:31 |
| SmokingRope | i think i saw a scheme interpreter in the wxPython client, how important is that? | 00:31 |
| andrei | mithro, You know what I really look forward to most after SoC? (if my proposal gets accepted that is) Implementing an AI ruleset => TP ruleset compiler | 00:31 |
| andrei | mithro, I love writing compilers, and that should be awesome :P | 00:32 |
| mithro | andrei: ? | 00:32 |
| andrei | mithro, The AI will need a full description (in a logic programming language-type of way) of the ruleset; but since that's a full description.. well I can compile that to a ruleset for the TP server to use | 00:33 |
| andrei | mithro, So then you can have one very high level unified language for describing both :) | 00:34 |
| SmokingRope | is the cpptext client reasonably up-to-date? | 00:36 |
| SmokingRope | andrei: what type of compilers have you done? | 00:37 |
| andrei | SmokingRope, My way of testing out a new language is to write a compiler in it, so lots of little ones. I had a job hacking on a C frontend. I'm co-maintainer of an open source Scheme compiler (Scheme->C). I've written compilers for lots of things though, Scheme, Forth, various fun lazy functional languages. Some other small imperative languages | 00:38 |
| SmokingRope | i got to write a pascal compiler last semester and had a blast | 00:39 |
| SmokingRope | it wasn't complete of course, but the last phase of development included functions and procedures | 00:40 |
| SmokingRope | do you use antltr*? | 00:40 |
| andrei | SmokingRope, Nice, I had a course like that in 2nd year. We had a C-like language with arrays, functions, etc. It was fun | 00:41 |
| andrei | SmokingRope, Nah.. | 00:41 |
| mithro | o btw, please include your IRC nick name in your application! | 00:41 |
| SmokingRope | :) | 00:41 |
| andrei | SmokingRope, I use parsec mostly. I used to use spirit (but it has fun bugs). bison was my favourite before that | 00:41 |
| andrei | SmokingRope, And before that was prolog, writing parsers in it was fun | 00:42 |
| SmokingRope | i just barely could visualize the table of an LALR parser by the end of the class, i'm procrastinating making one | 00:43 |
| andrei | Heh, we had to implement that if I remember right. | 00:43 |
| andrei | I mostly don't use ANTLR because of parsec.. after that ANTLR just seems primitive | 00:43 |
| SmokingRope | i seem to remember seeing a parser generator being developed by microsoft recently | 00:44 |
| andrei | Research or corporate? | 00:44 |
| SmokingRope | i think it was research | 00:45 |
| SmokingRope | they were giving it away free | 00:45 |
| andrei | Heh, be careful with MS' definition of free ;P | 00:45 |
| mithro | I appolgise if I invite you onto IRC and you are already here :) | 00:46 |
| andrei | SmokingRope, A long time ago when I was a young navie programmer I ported Allegiance (it's an MS research game) to Linux. Unfortunately I only read the license after I had done the port.. | 00:46 |
| andrei | SmokingRope, Thankfully I hadn't released the code yet and promptly decided never to do so | 00:47 |
| _brennan | mithro: thanks for looking over my application, im working on editing it now | 00:47 |
| SmokingRope | andrei: how old are you? lol | 00:47 |
| _brennan | brb, moving computers | 00:48 |
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| andrei | SmokingRope, Heh, 22 | 00:48 |
| SmokingRope | 23 here | 00:48 |
| SmokingRope | you already are working on a PhD? | 00:48 |
| mithro | _brennan: you get one chance per mentor comment | 00:49 |
| andrei | SmokingRope, Yup, I compressed a year of university and got into the direct PhD program :) | 00:49 |
| SmokingRope | very nice | 00:49 |
| andrei | SmokingRope, Which is due to the efforts of my awesome advisor | 00:49 |
| andrei | SmokingRope, Are you a grad student? | 00:50 |
| SmokingRope | andrei: undergrad | 00:51 |
| andrei | SmokingRope, Ah, where do you go to? | 00:51 |
| SmokingRope | andrei: Miami University, oxford Ohio | 00:51 |
| andrei | SmokingRope, I never guessed Miami university would be in Ohio :P | 00:52 |
| SmokingRope | andrei: what about you? | 00:52 |
| andrei | SmokingRope, Purdue, Indiana; middle of some field | 00:53 |
| SmokingRope | lol i know Indiana | 00:53 |
| andrei | SmokingRope, I literally see fields outside of my window.. it's a bit sad :P | 00:53 |
| SmokingRope | i can spit across the state line from here | 00:53 |
| bddebian | Purdue is in West Lafayette, IN, not Purdue IN :) | 00:53 |
| andrei | Heh, West Lafayette doesn't deserve the mention :P | 00:54 |
| mithro | bddebian: did that change in setup.py end up working | 00:55 |
| mithro | ? | 00:55 |
| bddebian | Oh time for Harvey Birdman.. | 00:56 |
| bddebian | mithro: Yes, the python packages are all up for Debian | 00:56 |
| mithro | andrei: for prosperity, could you at least include the some of your proposal in the application? | 00:56 |
| andrei | mithro, I don't think I can change the description.. | 00:56 |
| mithro | andrei: you can if I leave a comment - but you only get one chance per comment left | 00:57 |
| andrei | mithro, The description isn't publically visible even if it gets accepted | 00:57 |
| mithro | andrei: true - but it is to Google people and it quicker for us to see an overview to start with | 00:58 |
| andrei | mithro, Ah, okies. I'll put it in the comment then :) | 00:58 |
| mithro | andrei: you can edit the description when I leave a comment | 00:59 |
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| andrei | mithro, Ah, well. I added it as a comment | 00:59 |
| mithro | doh! | 00:59 |
| andrei | mithro, I can add an unlimited amount anyway | 00:59 |
| andrei | mithro, I couldn't put the application in the description; it's too short.. and selecting out parts of it is a bad idea | 00:59 |
| andrei | mithro, We definitely didn't coordinate well on that one :p What would you like me to do? | 01:01 |
| mithro | he he - no we didn't :P | 01:01 |
| andrei | mithro, I can ammend the description to point to the first comment | 01:02 |
| mithro | andrei: I think some early goals like "Show that the AI can submit an order" might be a good trivial example | 01:02 |
| mithro | s/trivial example/early deliverable/ | 01:02 |
| andrei | mithro, Ah, it's there :) in the schedule | 01:03 |
| andrei | mithro, I changed the schedule so that it has clear deliverables along the way | 01:03 |
| andrei | mithro, There are several deliverables every 2 weeks. I don't want to go below that granularity though, I don't think it's realistic to plan a schedule more detailed than that and stick to it :) | 01:05 |
| mithro | andrei: I think you need specifically testable goals - | 01:06 |
| mithro | It should be able to manage its | 01:06 |
| mithro | economy so that it doesn't run it into the ground by overspending, | 01:06 |
| mithro | also it should be able to save money strategically. | 01:06 |
| mithro | that is very nebulous | 01:06 |
| andrei | mithro, That's because the economic system will be extremely limited. That's all that it will plan to do, save a bit of money for rainy days (as in, attacks) and not run out of money | 01:07 |
| mithro | andrei: so what are the results in relation to TP | 01:08 |
| andrei | mithro, But I can add more detail to that | 01:08 |
| mithro | IE, "The AI when playing RFTS will only build as many ships needed to do XYZ and keep spare points when needed in the future" or something | 01:08 |
| mithro | even that sounds a bit nebulous for me | 01:09 |
| bddebian | OK, I think the packages for gutsy/hardy are up now too | 01:09 |
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| bddebian | mithro: It was starmapper that you wanted packaged? | 01:10 |
| mithro | bddebian: we would love it packaged - but it's not a "high" priority | 01:10 |
| andrei | mithro, I'm not sure how much detail to go into. | 01:10 |
| mithro | andrei: I don't really care how it works out what it does - I'm more interested in describing what it does in a "testable" form | 01:11 |
| andrei | mithro, Can testable count as, it won't run out of resources and it will seek out new ones? | 01:12 |
| andrei | mithro, Or well.. it'll try not to run out of resources :P | 01:12 |
| mithro | andrei: if you can phrase that in the context of real game rules it would be much better | 01:12 |
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| andrei | mithro, Actively seek out new planets with resources it is lacking, which includes attacking them; distribute them to build new units as required; save some of them for future use. | 01:15 |
| andrei | mithro, Is that better? | 01:15 |
| mithro | andrei: maybe state it like | 01:15 |
| mithro | The AI will | 01:15 |
| mithro | 1. Actively scout for new planets | 01:15 |
| mithro | 2. Destory defenses and colonise new planets | 01:16 |
| mithro | 3. Able to maintain a stable economy while doing so | 01:17 |
| mithro | or something like that | 01:17 |
| * brlcad wonders if there's any information on-line about the original RFTS AI, or if you could even e-mail the original dev | 01:17 | |
| andrei | Ah, okies. Sure | 01:17 |
| andrei | mithro, I'll do that tomorrow | 01:17 |
| mithro | hey brlcad :) | 01:17 |
| brlcad | there were different players that had a different set of somewhat distinct playing styles, and difficulties | 01:18 |
| andrei | mithro, Is it ok if I post a diff as a comment and leave the integrated version of my website? | 01:18 |
| mithro | andrei: I would really recommend highlighting changes in some way (properly a slight colouring is always good) | 01:19 |
| andrei | mithro, Okies | 01:19 |
| mithro | JLafont: has done a pretty good job | 01:20 |
| andrei | mithro, Any other suggestions/concerns/reservations? :) | 01:22 |
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| mithro | andrei: it's looking fairly good | 01:22 |
| mithro | i'll have to give it a proper read when I'm not sleep deprived | 01:22 |
| andrei | mithro, Heh, thanks :) | 01:22 |
| brennan_ | lol, is there ever a time where we arent sleep deprived? | 01:23 |
| andrei | brennan_, If you're not sleep deprived you're not working hard enough :) | 01:24 |
| mithro | _brennan: you get one chance to update the detail description per mentor comment | 01:24 |
| bddebian | Well bedtime for this old man. Later folks | 01:24 |
| mithro | bddebian: have a good night | 01:24 |
| brennan_ | gnite dude | 01:24 |
| brennan_ | mithro: ok | 01:24 |
| brennan_ | sorry that my name keeps changing the underscore, different computer and irc clients lol | 01:25 |
| mithro | brennan_: no probs | 01:26 |
| brennan_ | mithro: other then the schedule, how does my application look, im alittle nervous cus ive never applied for the GSOC before | 01:27 |
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| mithro | brennan_: well the fact that you are on IRC and submitting your application now is very good | 01:27 |
| brennan_ | ok | 01:27 |
| mithro | brennan_: some quick suggestions | 01:34 |
| mithro | 1. You need more specific deliverables | 01:34 |
| mithro | 2. A much better timeline is needed (as mentioned in the comment) | 01:35 |
| mithro | once you have done them, I think you may find that some more tasks are needed to fill out the full 3 months | 01:37 |
| mithro | (you are suppose to be working on it full time) | 01:37 |
| brennan_ | ok | 01:38 |
| mithro | some examples of previous PHP work you be a good addition | 01:38 |
| mithro | we use PHPBB3.0 which totally changes the MOD/Plugin system | 01:39 |
| mithro | so you need to make sure you understand that | 01:39 |
| brennan_ | yeah i know, i was reading up on that a bit | 01:40 |
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| brennan_ | ok, well ill work on those parts of the proposal and submit them later today, its 2am local time, so I should probably get some rest. Thx for the pointers mithro | 01:52 |
| mithro | no probs | 01:53 |
| brennan_ | iight, night | 01:53 |
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| JLafont | hmmm, I should probably go to sleep as well | 01:54 |
| JLafont | Good night everyone | 01:54 |
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| SmokingRope | how would you like my proposal's detailed description to look? | 02:20 |
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| SmokingRope | i can't fit the whole proposal in there | 02:22 |
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| mithro | SmokingRope: My suggestion is to put the most important points in the detailed description and think link to a bigger document | 02:30 |
| mithro | high light the extra bits in the bigger document in a different colour | 02:30 |
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| *** JLP_ is now known as JLP | 04:39 | |
| JLP | morning all | 04:39 |
| xdotx | hey JLP | 04:40 |
| JLP | xdotx: ahoy | 04:40 |
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| JLP | llnz: ahoy | 06:24 |
| llnz | hi JLP | 06:26 |
| llnz | and all | 06:26 |
| JLP | llnz: demo1 is down | 06:26 |
| llnz | ok | 06:27 |
| * llnz jumps in to debug | 06:27 | |
| llnz | hummm... | 06:28 |
| llnz | i think i know what it is, but not why | 06:29 |
| llnz | demo1 restarted | 06:29 |
| JLP | hm do I see some objects without a name on demo1 | 06:55 |
| SmokingRope | ahaha | 06:56 |
| SmokingRope | :) | 06:56 |
| JLP | SmokingRope: on purpose or does this look like a bug somwhere? | 06:57 |
| SmokingRope | oh i don't know what the correct functionality is | 06:57 |
| SmokingRope | if you're supposed to see names it's probably a bug | 06:57 |
| JLP | SmokingRope: you probably loged in with username SmokingRope right, as seen from the info panel Owner data | 06:58 |
| SmokingRope | yep | 06:58 |
| SmokingRope | i've constructed two scout ships so far | 06:59 |
| SmokingRope | and i have moved all 3 frigates to other systems | 06:59 |
| JLP | i think the ruleset should in this case create the objects named something like JLP First Fleet | 06:59 |
| llnz | humm... | 06:59 |
| SmokingRope | i see all your ship names | 06:59 |
| JLP | yeah that is strange, I can see mine, yours are blank, if i connect with a gues account i see no names | 07:00 |
| llnz | that's a clue | 07:01 |
| CIA-13 | llnz tpserver-cpp * r90bb640f7db7 /modules/games/minisec/minisecturn.cpp: | 07:07 |
| CIA-13 | Added missing line from MinisecTurn that makes all object actually visible. | 07:07 |
| CIA-13 | Should help the missing names issue. | 07:07 |
| llnz | going to restart demo1 shortly | 07:07 |
| llnz | restarted | 07:08 |
| SmokingRope | i'm headed to class, bbl | 07:08 |
| JLP | SmokingRope: exuces, you just got afraid of the mighty JLP Empire :P | 07:09 |
| * JLP is happy that he has a day off today | 07:10 | |
| llnz | lucky you | 07:14 |
| * llnz is busy at work every weekday now | 07:14 | |
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| llnz | ~seen nash | 07:26 |
| tpb | llnz: nash was last seen in #tp 10 hours, 4 minutes, and 59 seconds ago: <nash> mithro: So no reason to bother then | 07:26 |
| llnz | ah, good | 07:26 |
| * llnz wonders when mithro, JLP and others introduce themselves on the mentors list | 07:30 | |
| JLP | llnz: mentors list? | 07:30 |
| llnz | google-summer-of-code-mentors-list on googlegroups | 07:31 |
| * JLP checks gsocml | 07:33 | |
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| llnz | hi mithro | 07:43 |
| mithro | hey llnz | 07:43 |
| mithro | my gateway computer died :( | 07:43 |
| llnz | sucky | 07:45 |
| * JLP just copies the tp description from llnz :) | 07:45 | |
| llnz | hehehe | 07:46 |
| llnz | you could just reply to mine and say you're also from TP | 07:46 |
| JLP | llnz: indeed, that is better | 07:48 |
| JLP | hm looks like the reply doesn't work in konqueror, damn those google apps | 07:49 |
| * llnz notes he changed his subscription to send him emails, and replied by email | 07:50 | |
| JLP | nice my repy got right after daniel molkentin's, the author of the book of qt 4 which i have here :) | 07:57 |
| * llnz reads the actual submitted applications for the first time | 08:18 | |
| * JLP just checked the ineligable one :) | 08:20 | |
| llnz | hehe, yeah, read that one first :-0 | 08:20 |
| llnz | :-) | 08:20 |
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| * llnz realises the time, and wanders off | 09:26 | |
| llnz | later all | 09:26 |
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| bddebian | Howdy | 10:02 |
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| f0ster | howdy | 10:40 |
| f0ster | any mentors in here | 10:40 |
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| JLP | Zbyl, Iwanowitch: ahoy, you are new here right? (at least i can't remember seeing you before) | 17:03 |
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| Iwanowitch | JLP: slightly, yes, I was here last year too :) | 17:12 |
| Iwanowitch | I was mostly wondering about how you guys are keeping up under the massive amounts of SoC applications you have gotten now, but it seems there aren't that many people on the channel here? | 17:13 |
| JLP | Iwanowitch: oh yes, i think now i remember, you applied with something for c++ server right? | 17:13 |
| Zbyl | I'm new. | 17:13 |
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| Iwanowitch | Well, I remember the SQLite storage backend and a mobile phone client, but I think I had another proposal. | 17:14 |
| Iwanowitch | Then again, KDE got me last year :) | 17:15 |
| JLP | Iwanowitch: the number of applications is not a problem, it is more of a problem later when we only have like 3 slots and have to select only 3 from so many excellent applications | 17:15 |
| JLP | Iwanowitch: i hope we get at least 5 this year | 17:15 |
| Iwanowitch | There's a massive amount of organizations this year. I spent a whole day just browsing them :/ | 17:16 |
| JLP | Zbyl: cool, any idea that already grabbed your attention? | 17:16 |
| Iwanowitch | So I hope that leaves enough slots for you guys. | 17:16 |
| JLP | Iwanowitch: yeah, the list keeps getting longer and longer, it's good that they have mentors by category/language to at least make it a bit easier if you don't know where to look | 17:17 |
| Zbyl | JLP: Yes. I want to write an active client for Windows. I've sent a letter describing it to [email protected]. | 17:17 |
| JLP | llnz: ahoy | 17:17 |
| llnz | hi JLP, and all | 17:18 |
| Iwanowitch | To be honest, I also learned about some new projects... Mixxx and Hackystat were new to me and look somewhat interesting. | 17:18 |
| JLP | Iwanowitch: i found out aboit mixxx when i installed amndriva on my sisters computer and it is included there by default :) | 17:19 |
| Iwanowitch | In a usage way, not in a coding way :) | 17:19 |
| JLP | Zbyl: i'll check for new e-mail and take a look | 17:19 |
| Zbyl | JLP: Thanks | 17:19 |
| JLP | Zbyl: hm i don't see any new mail on tp-devel mailiang list | 17:21 |
| Zbyl | JLP: Is the [email protected] address correct? I've send it from Gmail about an hour ago. | 17:22 |
| Iwanowitch | Zbyl: [email protected], I believe | 17:24 |
| JLP | Zbyl: the mailing list is [email protected] | 17:24 |
| JLP | developer@ is maybe only delivered to mithro and llnz | 17:24 |
| llnz | JLP: probably only mithro | 17:24 |
| * llnz goes to check | 17:25 | |
| Zbyl | JLP: I'll resend it to tp-devel. | 17:25 |
| JLP | Zbyl: be sure to first registe with the list here - http://www.thousandparsec.net/tp/mailman.php/listinfo/tp-devel | 17:26 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/1DpR> (at www.thousandparsec.net) | 17:26 |
| JLP | Iwanowitch: so will you apply with the same ones this year? or are you interested in something else? | 17:28 |
| Iwanowitch | JLP: I'm mostly thinking about writing an AI for a ruleset | 17:29 |
| Iwanowitch | I'm not entirely sure why, but the other ones don't really get me motivated anymore. | 17:31 |
| Iwanowitch | Then again, I'm doing a minor in AI (though, mostly non-game related), so perhaps that's why | 17:31 |
| JLP | Iwanowitch: nice, a lot of interest into ai this year, it would be great if we could select two AIs and they would be fighting all over the GSoC period :) | 17:31 |
| Iwanowitch | Woo, fun :) | 17:31 |
| xdotx | llnz: ping | 17:31 |
| llnz | xdotx: pong! | 17:32 |
| xdotx | llnz: i've got some thoughts and ideas for you | 17:32 |
| llnz | cool | 17:33 |
| JLP | Iwanowitch: in case you still have the text from last year around, it doesn't hurt to submit it again, you know the more applications we have relatively to other mentoring organizations the more sots we get | 17:33 |
| JLP | Iwanowitch: and you can tell us which ones not to select :) or cripple them in comparison to AI one :) | 17:33 |
| Iwanowitch | Haha :) | 17:33 |
| xdotx | heheh | 17:34 |
| Iwanowitch | I don't have the texts anymore though. | 17:34 |
| Iwanowitch | I can alwasy generate some random ones ;) | 17:34 |
| JLP | Iwanowitch: if you have time, you're welcome :) | 17:35 |
| Iwanowitch | "Massive SoC fraud detected in Thousand Parsec, organization banned from further participation" | 17:35 |
| xdotx | llnz: i'm gonna throw it up on the wiki real quick | 17:35 |
| xdotx | Iwanowitch: pssh, IRC is as secure as it gets ;P | 17:36 |
| JLP | Iwanowitch: ah it wouldn't be that massive :) | 17:36 |
| xdotx | Iwanowitch: they'll never know the evil plan | 17:36 |
| Iwanowitch | xdotx: I think TP keeps logs of IRC... Tadbit dangerous :) | 17:37 |
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| xdotx | a tadbit never hurt anyone :) | 17:37 |
| JLP | xdotx: btw i've tried playing a bit of rfts today, and it looks like i'm always stuck in one turn where i can move ships around but don't get a chance to do anything with the planet | 17:39 |
| * xdotx hums | 17:39 | |
| xdotx | JLP: read the intro msg? | 17:39 |
| JLP | xdotx: could it be the ruleset or maybe some caching problem in client or something else? | 17:39 |
| xdotx | JLP: that's intended functionality right now. it may be changed so that you can always add orders, but they only execute during certain turns | 17:40 |
| JLP | xdotx: yeah about 3 turns and that, but even after like 10 of turns i couldn't do a thing | 17:40 |
| xdotx | JLP: oh noes | 17:40 |
| xdotx | i'll have to look in to that | 17:42 |
| JLP | mithro: oh hi | 17:43 |
| Epyon | 1,5 proposal ready... | 17:44 |
| xdotx | llnz: http://www.thousandparsec.net/wiki/Object_parameter_problem excuse the formatting | 17:45 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/1jSa> (at www.thousandparsec.net) | 17:45 |
| JLP | go Epyon! go Epyon! | 17:45 |
| * llnz has a look | 17:45 | |
| xdotx | slightly nicer formatting now | 17:47 |
| mithro | hey xdotx! | 17:49 |
| xdotx | mithro: heya | 17:49 |
| mithro | will you be around in a bit I would love to chat about RFTS and client | 17:49 |
| xdotx | most probably yes | 17:49 |
| mithro | only 8 applications :( | 17:50 |
| Epyon | There should be at least 10 when the day ends. | 17:51 |
| xdotx | llnz: i know you're not a fan of vector, but... | 17:56 |
| xdotx | uh oh. git hates me again :( | 17:57 |
| xdotx | that and i'm retarded | 17:57 |
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| mithro | anyway have to run to work now | 17:58 |
| mithro | see ya! | 17:58 |
| vi1985 | xdotx: btw, I was wondering if the wiki page on TP-RFTS is the definitive guide, or there are official specs hiding somewhere? :) | 18:01 |
| xdotx | vi1985: that's unfortunately about as definitive as it gets right now | 18:02 |
| vi1985 | xdotx: you think it's enough to design AI rules around? more specifically, is there any info missing? (sorry if this is redundant... haven't had time to compare it against TP03!) | 18:03 |
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| xdotx | vi1985: more info could definitely be added, but most of that could probably be gained by playing it, and/or reading the original RFTS manual | 18:04 |
| xdotx | hmm. also it could be a bumpy ride if the rules start changing to be more like the "advanced" rules in the original (which nash would love) | 18:05 |
| Iwanowitch | Hey, that's a design challenge, isn't it? ;) | 18:06 |
| Iwanowitch | Be ready for changes. | 18:06 |
| xdotx | design challenges are my favourite kind :) | 18:07 |
| vi1985 | xdotx: Ah well. As long as everyone's on the same page 'tis all good. Just don't want to give the AI more capability than a player would have ;) I'll probably start bugging you by mid-April ;) | 18:07 |
| * xdotx nods | 18:07 | |
| vi1985 | xdotx: lol... much better than relationship challenges! | 18:07 |
| xdotx | vi1985: fact! | 18:07 |
| vi1985 | :) | 18:08 |
| JLP | Zbyl: just checked mail and now i see it on tp-devel | 18:13 |
| Zbyl | JLP: Great | 18:13 |
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| JLP | Zbyl: do i have a right feeling that you think that TPCL is used for GUI elements? | 18:37 |
| mithro | hello people | 18:38 |
| JLP | mithro: ahoy | 18:38 |
| mithro | Zbyl: are you Zbyszek Skowron ? | 18:38 |
| Epyon | I'd bet he is. | 18:39 |
| Zbyl | JLP: Not really. I haven't seen it, but I've read it was supposed to add some constraints for assembling the components of designs. | 18:39 |
| Zbyl | mithro: Yes. Zbyszek = Zbyl | 18:39 |
| mithro | Zbyl: just replied to your email | 18:40 |
| Zbyl | mithro: Tanks for your reply. I see that what I had in mind just wouldn't work. | 18:43 |
| mithro | Zbyl: well, it's not that it wouldn't work | 18:43 |
| mithro | if we had unlimited resources we would be happy for you to go ahead | 18:44 |
| vi1985 | mithro: btw, i hadn't noticed your feedback till this morning, when i was going through the tp-devel digests... i think i actually did what you were asking for anyway, though! | 18:44 |
| mithro | but since we only get a limited resources we have to be a little more selective in our choosing | 18:44 |
| mithro | Zbyl: I would highly encourage you to still apply! | 18:45 |
| mithro | (obviously with a slightly different proposal) | 18:45 |
| mithro | Zbyl: TPCL is used to make interactively creating designs on the client not require a roundtrip to the server | 18:46 |
| mithro | ezod: don't worry, I have not forgotten you - I will reply to your proposal later tonight | 18:46 |
| andrei | Zbyl, Scheme isn't hard to learn at all; give it a try :) | 18:47 |
| andrei | Zbyl, It's actually a tiny little language (almost a toy language) | 18:47 |
| Zbyl | mithro: The goal of my propopsal was to make the client customizable - so that every game would have UI tailored for it, and different. | 18:47 |
| andrei | Zbyl, And the syntax.. well, it has almost no syntax. There's little to be unfamiliar with (actually, there are about a handful of rules pertaining to that, that's all) | 18:48 |
| Zbyl | andrei: I know Scheme. I just don't see how it's a simple language. | 18:48 |
| mithro | Zbyl: the customisation that you can do is very limited when you think about the different scope of clients we have | 18:48 |
| mithro | from mobile devices, web clients, 3d and desktop clients | 18:48 |
| mithro | etc | 18:48 |
| andrei | Zbyl, Really? Why don't you think it's simple? | 18:48 |
| andrei | Zbyl, I'm curious because one of my favourite things to do is to teach my friends scheme :p I've yet to find one that after being exposed to it the right way didn't find it a cute little language with lots of power | 18:49 |
| CIA-13 | fr33.em4il tpserver-cpp * rd31175dac36b / (5 files in 2 dirs): | 18:51 |
| CIA-13 | changing ObjectParamGroup to use vector internally instead of list using std::advance | 18:51 |
| CIA-13 | also added a typedef for the list type | 18:51 |
| CIA-13 | Signed-off-by: tyler <xdotx@uBeast4-12.(none)> | 18:51 |
| * xdotx kicks git | 18:51 | |
| llnz | ahh, ok | 18:51 |
| mithro | xdotx: hey xdotx | 18:52 |
| xdotx | heya | 18:52 |
| Zbyl | andrei: It's not objective. The syntax is difficult to write in a clean way. It doesn't have enough language constructs to be transparent. Sure - it's cute, but closer to assembler than to a high level language when it comes to simplicity of writing code. | 18:53 |
| mithro | xdotx: first question, what happened to your BZA friend? | 18:53 |
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| andrei | Zbyl, What do you mean about difficult syntax? | 18:54 |
| andrei | Zbyl, What language constructs are you missing? | 18:54 |
| xdotx | mithro: i think he's just been busy with school. | 18:54 |
| brennan_ | hello everybody | 18:56 |
| mithro | xdotx: secondly - we need get a RFTS game going now the 0.3.1 client has been released | 18:56 |
| JLP | brennan_: ahoy | 18:56 |
| brennan_ | JLP: hiyo | 18:56 |
| mithro | xdotx: the windows version of the client should be much improved so you can also play with friends locally | 18:57 |
| Zbyl | andrei: It's difficult to write a readable code. I'm not missing the power of the language, but how it is expressed. The value of C-like syntax is not just the cool symbols it's using, but overal readability. | 18:57 |
| * xdotx nods | 18:58 | |
| andrei | Zbyl, Really? You've read the average C code? | 18:58 |
| andrei | Zbyl, Average Scheme is way cleaner than average C | 18:58 |
| mithro | xdotx: so how about this weekend then? | 18:59 |
| Zbyl | andrei: Yes. A lot :) And I don't agree with you. I guess in the end it's a matter of preference :) | 18:59 |
| andrei | Zbyl, Perhaps, it's also a matter of what you're used to :) | 18:59 |
| xdotx | intuition is a function of familiarity ;) | 19:00 |
| xdotx | mithro: hopefully that'd be good. | 19:00 |
| mithro | xdotx: well do we want to organise an actual time | 19:00 |
| xdotx | mithro: though the definition of "weekend" is slightly different for us | 19:00 |
| mithro | xdotx: you are Settle right? | 19:01 |
| Zbyl | andrei: The Scheme is known on Universities, but other than that it's pretty lesser known. | 19:01 |
| xdotx | Seattle* yes | 19:01 |
| mithro | http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?day=29&month=3&year=2008&p1=5&p2=234&p3=-1&p4=-1 | 19:02 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/1jU$> (at www.timeanddate.com) | 19:02 |
| andrei | Zbyl, Scheme is actually used in industry on occasion, I've seen scheme jobs here and there. But the merit of a language has nothing to do with its use in industry | 19:02 |
| andrei | Zbyl, Industry use has to do with how well the average programmer does with it | 19:02 |
| mithro | xdotx: any suggestions? | 19:03 |
| mithro | Saturday, 29 March 2008 at 01:00:00Sat 11:30 AM *Fri 6:00 PM * | 19:03 |
| mithro | Sunday, 30 March 2008 at 01:00:00Sun 11:30 AM *Sat 6:00 PM * | 19:04 |
| Zbyl | andrei: My tutor used Scheme commercially, but since the industry uses it "on occasion" (no major company uses it), it does say something about it's potential. | 19:04 |
| ezod | andrei: as evidenced by the otherwise inexplicable proliferation of msft tools you find there ;) | 19:05 |
| andrei | ezod, Heh :) | 19:05 |
| xdotx | mithro: my fridays aren't good. your sunday afternoon time would be fine for me though | 19:05 |
| mithro | xdotx: that would be sat night for you? | 19:06 |
| xdotx | mithro: yeah. i'll be up till 'bout 2am though | 19:06 |
| xdotx | only thing is i might still have some work to do on a school project | 19:07 |
| mithro | it would be a good interactive debugging session | 19:07 |
| mithro | my only problem is that my network server is currently down :( | 19:07 |
| xdotx | i've got a server here but i make no promises about it's availability | 19:08 |
| Zbyl | mithro: Extending the client specs would complicate stuff. But some stuff just can't be done genericaly, like some custom visualisations of trade routes, range entities (clouds, mine fields, areas of influence), sensors, etc. Also it's really important for a game to bloom, to be distinguishable among others. Nice ruleset is only one element of a fun game. Are there any plans to extend... | 19:16 |
| Zbyl | ...clients in this "user experience" direction? | 19:16 |
| mithro | Zbyl: sensors, clouds, mine fields, ares of influence can all be done currently without much problems - they just have not been added to the client yet as no ruleset uses them | 19:17 |
| brennan_ | Mithro: quick question, how does the TP clients generate the universe map you see in the client? because i want to be able to show a snapshot of the universe on the server detail page for the metaserver | 19:17 |
| mithro | brennan_: I would recommend looking at starmapper - it draws very pretty maps | 19:18 |
| brennan_ | mithro:is that the java program? | 19:19 |
| mithro | yeah | 19:19 |
| mithro | sadly :( | 19:19 |
| brennan_ | lol, yeah, i mean, I have alittle bit of familiarity with java, but i dunno | 19:21 |
| xdotx | java's easy-peasy | 19:21 |
| mithro | brennan_: but all you would have to do is just call it out | 19:21 |
| Zbyl | mithro: Yeah, but there is no framework in the clients to give the elements unique visualisation and UI-binding. In other words every mine field in every game will look the same, every fleet, star etc. also, right? | 19:21 |
| mithro | it's just a command line program | 19:21 |
| brennan_ | ok | 19:21 |
| mithro | Zbyl: depends on how advanced the client it - the visualisation of the data on a server is something a client has to worry about not a ruleset | 19:22 |
| mithro | and the information must be their anyway (as otherwise an AI can't play the game) | 19:22 |
| brennan_ | xdotx: i know, but my intermediate level java class at this college couldnt really speak english and it hurt lol | 19:23 |
| brennan_ | *professor | 19:23 |
| JLP | Zbyl: what i was planing to do in Parsek is that the look of objects would be in SVG file, so when a ruleset is detected and there is a special SVG file for it it could load that | 19:23 |
| xdotx | yeah.. i hate when colleges do that. | 19:23 |
| Zbyl | mithro: Yes. And this is something I wanted to change with my proposal - give the game creator the ability to control how the game look and behave. | 19:24 |
| xdotx | mithro: hmm, what control is there over what media is used? ie, can a ruleset specify a set of media for the clients to use? | 19:24 |
| xdotx | Zbyl: i'm in favour of that concept as well :) | 19:25 |
| mithro | xdotx: yes, a ruleset can specify media (by giving a URL) | 19:25 |
| xdotx | mithro: thought so | 19:25 |
| * llnz decides to work from home today | 19:25 | |
| brennan_ | xdotx: yeah, it made me not take any more java programming courses at this college, hopefully ill get my transfer to the college i want to go to and they will actually have some english speaking professors | 19:25 |
| xdotx | llnz: thoughts on the object param stuff? | 19:26 |
| mithro | Zbyl: we can't give that control to a game developer as then it destroys the power of Thousand Parsec - the fact that any client can be used (text based, 2d, 3d, mobile, embedded, touch screen, etc) | 19:26 |
| llnz | xdotx: i'll have to think about it | 19:26 |
| mithro | llnz: the demo1/demo2 where playing up last night I believe? | 19:26 |
| mithro | Zbyl: do you think the same visualisation will work in a mobile client and the current 2d client and a 3d client? | 19:28 |
| Zbyl | mithro: At a decently high level - yes. | 19:28 |
| mithro | Zbyl: what about a client which has no UI and only has sound output (such as for the blind) | 19:29 |
| Zbyl | mithro: A StarMap could expose some interfafce for map manipulation in terms of stars, geometric entities and the like. Audio output could also support those. | 19:30 |
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| xdotx | i agree that separation of client and game ruleset is important. but you're going to have trouble with game designers if you tell them they have very little control over how the game -can- look/sound | 19:32 |
| Zbyl | mithro: Another thing worth customisig is how the orders are issued - current client guesses, that the Move order can be added to the context menu, right? It would be nice to be able to tell him to do so. | 19:32 |
| mithro | Zbyl: why would it be nice? | 19:33 |
| mithro | What if the client only has room for two things on it's context menu? | 19:33 |
| mithro | xdotx: why? it's all about the gameplay right! ;) | 19:34 |
| Zbyl | mithro: Then the context menu would have to presented differently - not necessarily as a popup menu under the mouse cursor or whatever. | 19:35 |
| xdotx | mithro: unfortunately no :( | 19:35 |
| Zbyl | mithro: How you operate the game is an important factor of gameplay :) | 19:35 |
| xdotx | eyecandy and earcandy are very important too | 19:36 |
| xdotx | they're potentially very rewarding. which is what game designers are trying to do | 19:36 |
| Zbyl | As a side question - is there a web client, or still in works? | 19:36 |
| mithro | Zbyl: not yet, we are hoping someone puts in a good proposal for it this year and doesn't disappear | 19:37 |
| mithro | xdotx: eyecandy/earcandy is not something a ruleset designer has under their control because of fundamentally how TP works | 19:38 |
| mithro | they can "suggest" it | 19:38 |
| mithro | but there is no guarantee that the client can even understand media | 19:38 |
| * xdotx nods | 19:38 | |
| xdotx | i think that's fine | 19:38 |
| mithro | we are more a FOSS project then a game project ;) | 19:39 |
| xdotx | i'll see what i can do about that? ;P | 19:40 |
| Zbyl | As I understand the protocol requires from the client the ability to recive msgs from server asynchronously, right? | 19:40 |
| Zbyl | I ask because I don't think it's possible for a web client to do so, without a proxy running on some server. | 19:42 |
| llnz | Zbyl: it's not required, but it has to understand when it happens | 19:43 |
| llnz | the main thing that it is used for is telling when the turn is about to end | 19:44 |
| mithro | Zbyl: a proxy is the suggested method | 19:44 |
| Zbyl | mithro: I know you probably wouldn't like it, but I'm thinking if it could be done without a proxy, but as a Firefox extension. | 19:46 |
| mithro | Zbyl: that doesn't support IE, Safari or Opera | 19:46 |
| llnz | or konqueror | 19:46 |
| Zbyl | mithro: No. Still a mobile client wouldn't support a Mainframe, but would still be useful :) I'm just thinking if that's possible. Probably it is. | 19:47 |
| mithro | Zbyl: or Epiphany which is what I use | 19:48 |
| xdotx | something tells me this writer lives in america: http://www.wellingtongrey.net/miscellanea/archive/2007-05-27--the-truth-about-wireless-devices.html | 19:48 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/1jUi> (at www.wellingtongrey.net) | 19:48 |
| SmokingRope | hey all | 19:50 |
| mithro | hey SmokingRope | 19:51 |
| llnz | hi SmokingRope | 19:51 |
| brennan_ | yeah im pretty sure he does | 19:51 |
| xdotx | :) yeah... yeah... | 19:52 |
| mithro | xdotx: I thought that was a british one | 19:54 |
| mithro | in response to a "documentary" on wireless routers on the BBC | 19:55 |
| xdotx | yeah, i think they came up with the idea... but we'll take credit for anything anybody else does | 19:56 |
| xdotx | and make it fatter, lazier, more irrational | 19:56 |
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| mithro | he he | 20:01 |
| Epyon | mithro, finished the proposals | 20:01 |
| Epyon | where should I put them? | 20:01 |
| Epyon | In the app? | 20:01 |
| JLP | Epyon: yup that's the right spot | 20:01 |
| * Epyon thinks he'll spellcheck them first :P | 20:02 | |
| Zbyl | I have a question - how is the "media" (pictures etc.) delivered to the client? I can't find it in the protocol format... | 20:04 |
| llnz | Zbyl: it's in tp04 and documented on the wiki | 20:05 |
| llnz | http://www.thousandparsec.net/tp/dev/documents/protocolxml.php | 20:05 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/JXj> (at www.thousandparsec.net) | 20:05 |
| llnz | http://www.thousandparsec.net/wiki/Media.gz | 20:05 |
| tpb | Title: Media.gz - Thousand Parsec Wiki (at www.thousandparsec.net) | 20:05 |
| Zbyl | llnz: Thanks. | 20:05 |
| mithro | Zbyl: http basically | 20:06 |
| Epyon | mithro, JLP, it's in | 20:06 |
| mithro | llnz: I think we need to extend that a little so that it includes http authentication - specially if we are going to include battlexml as downloads | 20:07 |
| llnz | mithro: maybe, were you going to use the standard media method for it? might need to be more general | 20:07 |
| mithro | llnz: possibly, I have yet to dredge the information out of my long term memory | 20:08 |
| mithro | this media discussion just made me remeber it | 20:08 |
| llnz | fair enough | 20:08 |
| Epyon | Okay, both proposals have been submitted | 20:09 |
| * Epyon waits for comments :) | 20:10 | |
| JLP | SmokingRope: are you able to update after the end of the last turn? | 20:11 |
| JLP | mithro: i get this: http://rafb.net/p/BOw3na72.html | 20:13 |
| tpb | Title: Nopaste - connection error 52 (at rafb.net) | 20:13 |
| SmokingRope | hlp: updates seem to be working | 20:18 |
| SmokingRope | s/hlp/jlp/ | 20:19 |
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| greywhind_ | mithro: i'm also getting a network error trying to connect to Demo1 | 20:22 |
| *** greywhind_ is now known as greywhind | 20:22 | |
| * llnz checks demo1 | 20:22 | |
| llnz | it is running ok | 20:22 |
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| mithro | JLP: interesting - so do I | 20:29 |
| JLP | mithro: that unicode error could be because of one of my fleets which has that character in its name and is just about ot be finished building | 20:34 |
| mithro | JLP: looks like they may be related | 20:35 |
| * vi1985 is pleased that Google fixed the webform... *now it's possible to edit w/o annoying anyone* | 20:38 | |
| JLP | vi1985: oh now there is no more comment from a mentor needed? | 20:39 |
| vi1985 | JLP: nope :) | 20:39 |
| JLP | vi1985: nice, now they should only add revision histroy :) | 20:41 |
| mithro | JLP: Leslie hates the web app - it will get replaced when she gets the time :P | 20:41 |
| mithro | JLP: okay it wasn't your fault :) | 20:41 |
| JLP | mithro: hehe, i think there are many people who don't like that webapp :) | 20:42 |
| * JLP finaly goes reading epyon's applications | 20:42 | |
| vi1985 | JLP: Yes, wikification was mentioned in a google conversation thread... apparently, they only have 1/10 of an engineer to work on it, and he's on sickness leave :)) | 20:43 |
| JLP | vi1985: they had an entire year to work on this :P | 20:43 |
| vi1985 | JLP: that's what happens when you have an entire year to work on something ;) | 20:43 |
| JLP | vi1985: yeah i know how it is, just take me and my Parsek for example | 20:44 |
| vi1985 | JLP: I was actually amazed to see how much work has gone into this... how old is the project anyway? | 20:45 |
| vi1985 | JLP: oh... you mean Parsek, not Parsec :) | 20:45 |
| Epyon | JLP, any comments? | 20:45 |
| JLP | vi1985: yeah, Parsek, the KDE4 client | 20:45 |
| JLP | Epyon: i keep getting distracted and chat here :) | 20:46 |
| Epyon | Oh :> | 20:46 |
| vi1985 | JLP: well, it's not easy working on something in addition to having a job/studies/family.. | 20:46 |
| vi1985 | ok, i got the hint ;) I've got a project to get back to as well :/ | 20:47 |
| llnz | TP project started 2001 | 20:47 |
| llnz | (roughly) | 20:47 |
| vi1985 | llnz: what was the initial motivation? There are (as far as I know) many commercial implementations of similar ideas | 20:49 |
| CIA-13 | mithro tpclient-pywx-stable * r830a3719d006 /requirements.py: Fixed unicode output on the console and log file. | 20:49 |
| JLP | vi1985: i think it is even written on the wikipedia article, which also links to a very nice ML post from mithro which ha a bit of history and directions in it | 20:49 |
| vi1985 | JLP: i'll check it out! | 20:49 |
| CIA-13 | mithro libtpclient-py-stable * refd22625d6fa /tp/client/cache.py: Don't try and get subobjects for objects which we where unable to download. | 20:51 |
| vi1985 | llnz: ok, i c i have the answer in the question already... <commercial> implementations, not open source | 20:52 |
| mithro | vi1985: plus no new Stars! | 20:52 |
| mithro | greywhind / JLP: that should fix your problem | 20:53 |
| llnz | vi1985: i'm not aware of any framework for building turn based game that is similar to TP | 20:53 |
| greywhind | mithro: ok | 20:53 |
| mithro | it was caused by objects getting destoryed | 20:53 |
| mithro | I wonder if I should do a 0.3.1.1 :/ | 20:53 |
| greywhind | mithro: maybe :/ | 20:54 |
| vi1985 | mithro: you mean that there are no star-map editors out there? | 20:54 |
| mithro | vi1985: Stars! is a game | 20:54 |
| vi1985 | llnz: meant to say, many 4X games in the market :) | 20:54 |
| greywhind | mithro: hmm | 20:54 |
| greywhind | http://rafb.net/p/d2T2oL33.html (121 lines) | 20:54 |
| tpb | Title: Nopaste - No description (at rafb.net) | 20:54 |
| vi1985 | mithro: I see :) | 20:55 |
| mithro | ugg | 20:55 |
| Epyon | ogg | 20:56 |
| vi1985 | llnz: I see what you mean now. I was just curious. | 20:57 |
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| JLP | Epyon: i'm missing the timeschedule with dates, what exactly will be available to a player/tester each week or each two weeks | 21:00 |
| Epyon | I did that on purpose | 21:01 |
| Epyon | If I'd set up exact deadlines I'd probably be missing some dramatically and not feeling obliged to do something if I was early :) | 21:01 |
| Epyon | The three most importand dates are Start/Mid/End, and I adressed those AFAIR | 21:02 |
| JLP | Epyon: yeah i saw that, it is jus easier for us to keep track any maybe even for you if you know exactly what should be there on a given week | 21:03 |
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| ZylGadis | more? | 21:04 |
| ZylGadis | :) | 21:04 |
| Epyon | I'd know exactly if I had a finalized design. | 21:04 |
| llnz | hi ZylGadis | 21:04 |
| llnz | yes, urls! | 21:04 |
| ZylGadis | hi folks | 21:04 |
| Epyon | And in both cases the exact design needs a lot of research | 21:04 |
| xdotx | making a pure-guess timeline is still a good practice because it means you've thought through it some | 21:04 |
| llnz | http://www.thousandparsec.net/tp/dev/documents/tpserver-cpp/ | 21:04 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/L00> (at www.thousandparsec.net) | 21:04 |
| JLP | ZylGadis: ahoy | 21:04 |
| ZylGadis | great, thanks | 21:04 |
| llnz | for a start, there is also a bit on the wiki at http://www.thousandparsec.net/wiki/Tpserver-cpp | 21:04 |
| tpb | Title: Tpserver-cpp - Thousand Parsec Wiki (at www.thousandparsec.net) | 21:04 |
| * ZylGadis digs into it | 21:04 | |
| JLP | ZylGadis: probably here for gsoc? | 21:04 |
| ZylGadis | JLP, not this year, unfortunately | 21:05 |
| ZylGadis | no time | 21:05 |
| llnz | that is for the c++ server, the python server probably has some docs somewhere | 21:05 |
| mithro | llnz: do you know if the python documents are currently being generated | 21:05 |
| mithro | I rediscovered them the other day :P | 21:05 |
| llnz | it should be | 21:05 |
| JLP | ZylGadis: ah ok, welcome anyways | 21:05 |
| ZylGadis | :) | 21:05 |
| llnz | Generated by Epydoc 2.1 on Wed Mar 26 21:00:37 2008 | 21:06 |
| ZylGadis | it's a shame though, I've been in the first three ones | 21:06 |
| Epyon | Epydoc -- I like that name :D | 21:06 |
| ZylGadis | nothing I can do, though, have to write dissertation this summer | 21:06 |
| ZylGadis | what I've encountered is that gsoc seems to be a nice way to find interesting projects, like tp | 21:07 |
| ZylGadis | there already is a filter by the google guys, who presumably won't let in something inactive or worthless | 21:07 |
| * Epyon takes a moment to think about all the orgs that applied and didn't get in :( | 21:09 | |
| mithro | llnz: but the structure of the repositories have change significantly so it may not be using up to date code | 21:09 |
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| * Epyon needs a beer. | 21:09 | |
| ZylGadis | Epyon, I'm not saying everybody who did not get in is worthless | 21:09 |
| napi | When I said "too late" I meant cause I go away for 3 days tomorrow... so unless an application late sunday has a good chance, there's not much point :p | 21:09 |
| ZylGadis | I'm saying everbody who did get in is not :) | 21:10 |
| llnz | mithro: true | 21:10 |
| * Epyon thinks TP needs a player base. | 21:10 | |
| mithro | llnz: I'll have to check it when we get time | 21:11 |
| napi | (that was aimed @ mithro incase it seemed a bit random) | 21:11 |
| mithro | Epyon: JLP and I are working on that | 21:11 |
| llnz | yeah | 21:11 |
| JLP | napi: ahoy | 21:11 |
| Epyon | mithro, so are both my apps xP | 21:11 |
| mithro | napi: mobile internet and a laptop :P | 21:11 |
| napi | hehe | 21:11 |
| napi | not sure how much she'll appreciate me spending the little time we got together over easter sitting on irc and reading about TP :p | 21:12 |
| Epyon | mithro, what we need is a) a good client, b) an exciting ruleset, c) advertising :> | 21:12 |
| napi | lets see how far I can get tonight. /me internets | 21:12 |
| mithro | napi: feel free to ask questions, it's really active in here today | 21:14 |
| napi | I intend to :) | 21:14 |
| * llnz is glad he is working from home today | 21:14 | |
| napi | well first quick question before I do more reading- are there any projects on the ideas page that havn't had much/any attention that you guys are quite keen to see taken up? | 21:15 |
| Epyon | I for instance am confined to IRC until my mouse recharges when I can do some real work D: | 21:15 |
| mithro | ruleset for the python server! :P | 21:15 |
| Epyon | napi, that's always a good question xP | 21:15 |
| napi | lol | 21:15 |
| llnz | napi: what languages do you know? C++, python, others? | 21:15 |
| napi | In no particular order; Java, C/C++, PHP/HTML all pretty strong | 21:16 |
| napi | Python have used a bit but not for a little while-shouldn't take long to jog the memory and bring it up to standard | 21:17 |
| napi | A whole host of languages i'm loosely comfortable with but wouldn't call myself strong by any means- perl, ruby, javascript, latex, fortran, actionscript | 21:17 |
| napi | umm and probably some more but i forget | 21:17 |
| * Epyon knows Japanese. | 21:18 | |
| * napi used to know (north) korean | 21:18 | |
| Epyon | :D | 21:18 |
| napi | :p | 21:18 |
| llnz | napi: well, then you could do just about anything on the ideas page | 21:18 |
| Epyon | llnz, the question is where is the greatest need (and the least apps) | 21:19 |
| napi | indeed | 21:19 |
| llnz | Epyon: i know | 21:19 |
| llnz | i'm getting there | 21:19 |
| napi | pointless and counterproductive for me to apply for a project that you've already had a good candidate applying for. :) | 21:19 |
| Epyon | napi, I just did that D: | 21:20 |
| mithro | napi: stay away from AI then :) | 21:20 |
| napi | better to get more good candidates across a range, than loads stacked up for one or two different ones. | 21:20 |
| Epyon | mithro, AI? | 21:20 |
| napi | ruleset for the python server could be a little out my league i think | 21:20 |
| mithro | AI has already 4 very good proposals | 21:20 |
| Epyon | mithro, I thought the 3D client was most overwhelmed... | 21:20 |
| mithro | Epyon: we only have 2 proposals for that so far if I recall correctly | 21:20 |
| Epyon | mithro, including or excluding mine? | 21:21 |
| mithro | last year the 3d client got loads of proposals too however | 21:21 |
| mithro | Epyon: including yours | 21:21 |
| llnz | dev tools (other than metaserver), parsek client, tpserver-py | 21:21 |
| Epyon | But you went for the web one unfortunately :/ | 21:21 |
| JLP | Epyon: yeah, too bad, ah well it happens | 21:23 |
| napi | web interface been taken then? pooh lol | 21:23 |
| Epyon | napi, last year. | 21:24 |
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| Epyon | This year there was a good candidate but AFAIR he resigned. | 21:24 |
| Epyon | mithro, no news on nash? :( | 21:25 |
| mithro | ~seen nash | 21:25 |
| tpb | mithro: nash was last seen in #tp 1 day, 0 hours, 3 minutes, and 57 seconds ago: <nash> mithro: So no reason to bother then | 21:25 |
| Epyon | :D | 21:25 |
| napi | hm | 21:25 |
| mithro | napi: there haven't been many good web interface proposals yet | 21:25 |
| * xdotx would like to see a web interface | 21:26 | |
| napi | excuse the noob-ness of the question, but if Parsek is far from complete, how do users play games? :/ | 21:26 |
| bddebian | Hey folks | 21:26 |
| * Epyon too. | 21:26 | |
| xdotx | napi: Parsek is only one client? | 21:26 |
| Epyon | napi, don't worry, I don't know that either :D | 21:26 |
| llnz | napi: there are two other clients, tpclient-pywx and galaxie | 21:26 |
| napi | ah I see | 21:27 |
| napi | why the need for parsek if there's already 2 working clients then? | 21:27 |
| Epyon | neither of them is "nice" | 21:27 |
| napi | hmm | 21:27 |
| xdotx | heh | 21:27 |
| napi | coin toss time between web interface or parsek | 21:28 |
| Epyon | WEB! | 21:28 |
| xdotx | alternatives are good | 21:28 |
| * Epyon doesn't like apps tied to a scpecific OS | 21:28 | |
| napi | web would seem like obvious choice- offers an alternative client, that's also mobile | 21:28 |
| * napi gives web 2 tallies | 21:28 | |
| Epyon | napi, go for it then | 21:29 |
| napi | indeed | 21:29 |
| Epyon | Any AJAX experience? | 21:29 |
| napi | Yup | 21:29 |
| Epyon | The better :) | 21:29 |
| napi | I'm going to go with "some" | 21:29 |
| napi | not huge amounts, but fast learner and I've got a few minor jobs lined up over the coming months that'll need it | 21:30 |
| napi | so by the time I start GSoC will be relatively strong | 21:30 |
| Epyon | Go for it then! | 21:30 |
| * xdotx nods | 21:31 | |
| * Epyon smiles | 21:31 | |
| napi | hmm | 21:31 |
| xdotx | a web client would make it easy to play/test from anywhere (ie, school) | 21:31 |
| napi | from a client point of view, how do the c++ and python servers vary? | 21:31 |
| CIA-13 | mithro libtpclient-py-stable * r614eeccd0a5a /tp/client/cache.py: Fixed the case on the received message. | 21:31 |
| CIA-13 | mithro libtpclient-py-stable * rb754f3875e81 /tp/client/cache.py: | 21:31 |
| CIA-13 | Changed the way the the previous patch worked. | 21:31 |
| CIA-13 | - Added more comments so it is clearer what is going on. | 21:31 |
| mithro | greywhind: give that a go? | 21:31 |
| mithro | napi: in theory they shouldn't | 21:31 |
| llnz | napi: they talk the same protocol | 21:31 |
| greywhind | mithro: will do | 21:31 |
| mithro | but the servers provide different "features" | 21:32 |
| mithro | IE tpserver-py supports multiple games on a single server | 21:32 |
| napi | hm | 21:32 |
| Epyon | mithro, could you elaborate on that one? | 21:32 |
| xdotx | ie, tpserver-cpp doesn't support persistence | 21:32 |
| napi | "in theory" and "in reality" aren't often the same in my experience :p | 21:32 |
| Epyon | So cpp is inferior? | 21:32 |
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| *** ryan_ is now known as f0ster | 21:32 | |
| f0ster | good evening everyone | 21:33 |
| JLP | mithro: connected fine now | 21:33 |
| llnz | cpp only supports one game, but has other advantages | 21:33 |
| napi | ok I need to quickly play a game of TP before I can do this app | 21:33 |
| JLP | f0ster: ahoy | 21:33 |
| llnz | like being a little faster | 21:33 |
| mithro | Epyon: tpserver-cpp supports proper "player views" - that feature has yet to be added to the tpserver-py | 21:33 |
| mithro | (not that any ruleset uses them properly yet) | 21:34 |
| f0ster | mithro, you're a mentor for gsoc right ? | 21:34 |
| xdotx | also C++ > python :) | 21:34 |
| * xdotx ducks | 21:34 | |
| llnz | it also has RFTS, from last years GSoC by xdotx :-) | 21:34 |
| * Epyon backs up xdotx | 21:34 | |
| mithro | xdotx: your got your > around the wrong way :P | 21:34 |
| xdotx | heheh. on that note i'm gonna run | 21:34 |
| mithro | xdotx: so my sunday afternoon right!? | 21:34 |
| xdotx | mithro: most probably yes | 21:35 |
| mithro | okay cool | 21:35 |
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| xdotx | with any luck i'll do a test or two before then too | 21:35 |
| mithro | going to lunch | 21:35 |
| mithro | bblr | 21:35 |
| * Epyon dreams of a tpserver-ruby | 21:35 | |
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| mithro | JLP / greywhind: I think we should probably do a 0.3.1.1 - as that bug is pretty serious | 21:36 |
| bddebian | noooo | 21:36 |
| greywhind | mithro: yeah | 21:37 |
| JLP | mithro: agree, to bad i didn abuse the strange characters before while testing | 21:38 |
| JLP | bddebian: :) | 21:39 |
| SmokingRope | game client is stuck trying to get orders from my planet | 21:39 |
| napi | hmm | 21:40 |
| napi | one way (could either be very elegant, or very ugly) could be to do web interface as a giant flash file | 21:40 |
| napi | dump all the server information into a database and then load it into the flash file, have player input do the same but backwards (dump it into the database then get taken out and given to the server) | 21:41 |
| llnz | flash doesn't work with konqueror on AMD64 | 21:42 |
| napi | ok, scrap that idea | 21:42 |
| llnz | and just about all browsers on AMD64 | 21:42 |
| napi | ok, completely scrap that idea | 21:42 |
| JLP | yeah i also don't like flash because of that, and all the nasty flash adds all over the internet | 21:44 |
| napi | hmm this web interface has got me all in a muddle. Lets try to break it down | 21:46 |
| napi | machine is running tpserver, and has a web server (lets assume apache) running | 21:47 |
| ZylGadis | does not have to be the same machine | 21:47 |
| napi | mmk | 21:48 |
| napi | if we assume no stand-alone webserver, need to build in a webserver to tpserver | 21:48 |
| ZylGadis | the web interface ideally is a network client to tpserver, and at the same time a network server for browsers | 21:48 |
| ZylGadis | so a middleman that shapes the frames so browsers/humans can understand them | 21:48 |
| napi | indeed | 21:49 |
| napi | tpserver needs to allow multiple instances of it, likely on different ports each | 21:49 |
| napi | (although not necessarily) | 21:49 |
| napi | the server for browsers part is quite easy. it's the client for tpserver I'm more concern about | 21:49 |
| napi | *concerned | 21:50 |
| andrei | napi, You probably don't want it to sit on different ports | 21:50 |
| andrei | napi, One is enough | 21:50 |
| napi | hmm yeah you're right- dunno why I thought different ports. me being silly | 21:50 |
| andrei | For the web interface; why not just write it in python as some apache module? Use the existing python client libraries | 21:52 |
| napi | aye, but need to understand it better than that for my application. "apache module in python allowing you to play over the internet" isn't going to cut it :p | 21:53 |
| andrei | I mean, you don't need some extra server for it | 21:54 |
| napi | would be better if it'll work 'out of the box' | 21:54 |
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| andrei | napi, What do you mean? | 21:55 |
| napi | some one downloads the server package to their machine, starts it up, and it just goes | 21:55 |
| andrei | You should speak to the actual tp deves, but that's probably not that much of a priority for the webserver | 21:55 |
| andrei | Running your own website involves a real webserver. And this cuts down on the amount of code in tp | 21:56 |
| andrei | Less code to maintain => better | 21:56 |
| andrei | Also, writing servers opens up a whole new fun deal with bugs | 21:56 |
| andrei | Better to let the apache people deal with those | 21:56 |
| SmokingRope | using apache you could always enable encryption too | 21:56 |
| andrei | SmokingRope, I very much doubt that's a priority for #tp :P | 21:57 |
| napi | I doubt many people playing a TP game would worry about some one sniffing their moves :p | 21:57 |
| llnz | tp has encryption, just not used yet | 21:57 |
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| SmokingRope | sending your password in plain text when you log in is bad too | 21:57 |
| *** greywhind has joined #tp | 21:58 | |
| andrei | SmokingRope, Passwords are different. And you can just let apache handle the password bit (and encrypt that); not encrypt the whole #tp session | 21:58 |
| andrei | SmokingRope, There's some standard way to log on things using apache (though logging off is a bit harder if I remember right) | 21:59 |
| SmokingRope | there's a lot of benefits to using apache | 21:59 |
| llnz | for a laugh, both tpservers support tunneling tp connections over http (for breaking through proxy servers) | 22:00 |
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| napi | aye I just noticed that | 22:01 |
| llnz | and https | 22:01 |
| JLP | f0ster: looks like we forgot about you? | 22:06 |
| JLP | f0ster: is there anything we could help you with | 22:06 |
| napi | mithro, ping? | 22:27 |
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| midorikid | Howdy, all! | 22:36 |
| *** vi1985 has joined #tp | 22:37 | |
| JLP | midorikid: ahoy | 22:37 |
| mithro | back from lunch now | 22:39 |
| mithro | napi: pong | 22:39 |
| vi1985 | nash: hi, I was trying to get in contact with you over email as you are the main AI dev. Perhaps you can spare a minute to look at my idea for an ai client? | 22:39 |
| nash | vi1985: Sure | 22:39 |
| vi1985 | nash: cool. Here's the url: http://www.thousandparsec.net/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/vi1985_proposal | 22:39 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/1jXA> (at www.thousandparsec.net) | 22:39 |
| nash | vi1985: Sorry, been in china the past month and my domain got blocked | 22:39 |
| napi | mithro, can you explain about tunneling tp connections over http? :) | 22:40 |
| llnz | hi nash | 22:40 |
| llnz | napi: i could try | 22:40 |
| nash | heyo llnz | 22:40 |
| vi1985 | nash: ah :) it's the stuff you hear about in the news. I'll be on the irc for a while, or maybe you can just leave a comment on the wiki | 22:41 |
| napi | llnz, go for it :) | 22:41 |
| mithro | napi: it's just a way for people behind restrictive proxies to get access | 22:41 |
| JLafont | Like my university's | 22:41 |
| mithro | nash: looks like I'll have to do a 0.3.1.1 :( | 22:41 |
| llnz | the client connects to the proxy server with the correct url, and the proxy server connects to the tpserver, once the response it sent from the tpserver, the proxy server has to relay data in both directions | 22:42 |
| nash | vi1985: Open in a window - may be a while before I get to it - at work now, but I will | 22:42 |
| nash | vi1985: I'll add comments to the wiki - I assume you are subscribed to changes | 22:42 |
| mithro | napi: the webclient should in theory let a player login to any server | 22:43 |
| mithro | so the first page would be a login which had "server: <>\n username:<>\n password:<>\n" | 22:43 |
| vi1985 | nash: no worries. I'll check it later | 22:43 |
| greywhind | mithro: it's fixed, by the way. | 22:45 |
| nash | vi1985: Looks nice and detailed at a quick scan | 22:45 |
| mithro | greywhind: cool | 22:45 |
| vi1985 | nash: thanks... a lot of work went into preparing it. | 22:46 |
| nash | I can see ;-) | 22:46 |
| vi1985 | nash: that's good :) | 22:47 |
| vi1985 | nash: i've plastered some very basic proof-of-concept source code on the web; the link is at the very bottom! | 22:49 |
| nash | Col | 22:50 |
| mithro | napi: that make sense? | 22:52 |
| napi | well that bit did yeah :p | 22:53 |
| napi | trying to work out the best way of actually *doing* it | 22:53 |
| napi | I see in my head how I want it to look when it's working, but it's how it'll work behind the scenes | 22:53 |
| napi | apache module seems like best way as far as i can see | 22:53 |
| f0ster | llnz: you do the tservercpp coding right ? | 22:53 |
| llnz | yes | 22:53 |
| f0ster | i was interested in the idea of splitting the server into a daemon, that you could possibly connect to remotely | 22:54 |
| llnz | cool | 22:54 |
| f0ster | I haven't done a lot of networking applications in c++ yet though | 22:55 |
| f0ster | I was wondering if that would limit my ability a lot | 22:55 |
| llnz | f0ster: i wouldn't have thought so, if you can learn a bit | 22:55 |
| f0ster | I could definately do a lot of that in java, but then again, it's not java | 22:55 |
| * f0ster ponders | 22:56 | |
| llnz | read and write is about all you'll need to know | 22:56 |
| f0ster | llnz: like file I/O you mean ? | 22:56 |
| llnz | yeah | 22:57 |
| llnz | look at playertcpconn.cpp | 22:57 |
| f0ster | ok | 22:57 |
| llnz | in particular at PlayerTcpConnection::underlyingRead and uniderlyingWrite | 22:57 |
| llnz | oh, it's actually send and recv | 22:58 |
| llnz | note it is using non-blocking sockets | 22:58 |
| napi | bleh. application is done | 22:59 |
| SmokingRope | mithro: what type of challenges have there been developing the python client? | 22:59 |
| napi | it's waaaaay too sketchy but it's best I can do in the time I've got (which is about 5 minutes before I ko) | 22:59 |
| mithro | brb got a meeting at work | 22:59 |
| f0ster | llnz: how many slots do you guys have ;) | 22:59 |
| f0ster | to allow gsoc students | 23:00 |
| mithro | napi: my theory would be have a daemon running on the webserver which dumps the Thousand Parsec stuff into a database | 23:00 |
| llnz | f0ster: last year we had 3, we are hoping for much more this year | 23:00 |
| mithro | napi: then have the web interface read from the database | 23:00 |
| vi1985 | f0ster: good question ;) it's on everyone's mind | 23:00 |
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| f0ster | llnz: ohh i see, I wasn't sure when you'd know | 23:00 |
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| napi | *sigh* that was my first thought but didn't write it | 23:00 |
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| napi | hate rushing applications | 23:01 |
| jphr_ | llnz: ping? | 23:01 |
| llnz | jphr_: pong! | 23:01 |
| napi | ah well. no time now- got to sleep so I can get train in the morning. | 23:01 |
| napi | Laters all | 23:01 |
| mithro | anyway I'm late for the meeting | 23:01 |
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| mithro | bblr | 23:01 |
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| f0ster | ttyl | 23:02 |
| f0ster | brb myself | 23:02 |
| jphr | llnz: sorry, this should be better. I fixed up my proposal for the Risk ruleset, and also created a Modified risk ruleset based on some comments mithro made. Is it too late for a second look at by you devs? | 23:02 |
| brennan_ | bb in a bit, switching comps | 23:05 |
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| llnz | jphr: I'll have a look shortly | 23:06 |
| jphr | i'll post to the mailing list | 23:07 |
| f0ster | I got raisin bran from this amish grocery store and the raisins are really hard.. | 23:10 |
| * f0ster crunches | 23:10 | |
| midorikid | Let them soak for a while. haha | 23:11 |
| jphr | llnz: mailed that to the dev list. I have to run, way too many projects going for the end of the term :( I'm pulling my eyes out | 23:11 |
| ZylGadis | hey folks, I can't really dig this from the documentation | 23:12 |
| ZylGadis | is tp really turn-based, or is it tick-based? | 23:12 |
| JLafont | I wouldn't do that. I'm very fond of my eyes | 23:12 |
| ZylGadis | (turn-based is chess: I move, you move. tick-based is the typical browser game: everyone moves, tick, everyone moves, etc) | 23:12 |
| JLafont | tick | 23:12 |
| ZylGadis | ok | 23:13 |
| ZylGadis | it was getting really confusing otherwise | 23:13 |
| llnz | jphr: ok, good luck for you projects | 23:16 |
| jphr | llnz: thanks, night | 23:16 |
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| mithro | back now | 23:44 |
| JLafont | welcome back mithro | 23:45 |
| * llnz quietly adds another task to the tpserver-cpp list | 23:45 | |
| * llnz should check his tpserver-cpp todo list for more tasks | 23:52 | |
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