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| Ohm | morning | 02:41 |
|---|---|---|
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| * llnz ponders | 03:21 | |
| mithro | hey llnz | 03:22 |
| llnz | hi | 03:22 |
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| mithro | hey Epyon | 04:16 |
| Epyon | hey mithro :) | 04:18 |
| mithro | so, what happened to those cool ships? | 04:19 |
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| CIA-12 | mithro tpserver-py * r44e77fe58d13 /tp/server/db/__init__.py: Another sqlalchemy 0.4.x fix. | 07:08 |
| CIA-12 | mithro tpserver-py * r4f2e262ea1f8 /tp/server/bases/Game.py: Updated some documentation and remove excess prints. | 07:08 |
| CIA-12 | mithro tpserver-py * r341cf875b3fe /tp/server/bases/Game.py: Start of a connection tracking table (for information on the number of connections and similar). | 07:08 |
| CIA-12 | mithro tpserver-py * rcd0d32135dbc /tp/server/bases/Game.py: Fixed the constraint on the new Connection table. | 07:08 |
| CIA-12 | mithro tpserver-py * ra8b068d0101b /tp/server/ (bases/Game.py server.py): Fixed the name for gameadd to be consistent. | 07:08 |
| CIA-12 | mithro tpserver-py * r08b0b005dc4c / (tp/server/server.py tpserver-py-tool): Added support for game removal. | 07:08 |
| CIA-12 | mithro tpserver-py * rc37651156893 /tp/server/bases/Game.py: | 07:08 |
| CIA-12 | Fix the locked method. | 07:08 |
| CIA-12 | Added support for checking the state of a specific game. | 07:08 |
| CIA-12 | mithro tpserver-py * r3dcc1db77ac3 / (tp/server/bases/Game.py tpserver-py-tool): Add support for cleaning up stale locks. | 07:08 |
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| CIA-12 | mithro tpserver-py * r052b1917b591 /tpserver-py-tool: Make it slightly harder to accidently remove a game. | 07:16 |
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| JLP | morning all | 07:24 |
| mithro | hey JLP | 07:25 |
| llnz | hi JLP | 07:30 |
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| mithro | llnz: well, have a good trip | 07:42 |
| * mithro is going to head to bed | 07:43 | |
| llnz | mithro: thank you | 07:43 |
| Ohm | llnz: where are you heading? | 07:47 |
| mithro | hey Ohm and good night :) | 07:48 |
| Ohm | sleep well | 07:49 |
| llnz | Ohm: a job interview in Mountain View, CA.... a long way from home (14 hours in a plane) | 07:50 |
| * llnz wishes his laptop was faster... | 07:54 | |
| llnz | as soon as apt-get is finished i'm going to bed | 07:56 |
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| Ohm | wow | 08:00 |
| Ohm | good luck, then | 08:00 |
| llnz | thanks | 08:00 |
| Ohm | may I ask which company? | 08:00 |
| llnz | it starts with 'g', has the motto "don't be evil" and runs GSoC :-) | 08:01 |
| * llnz will probably be around tomorrow morning (NZ time) | 08:02 | |
| llnz | because I'm going now | 08:03 |
| * llnz wander off | 08:03 | |
| llnz | later all | 08:03 |
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| bddebian | Howdy | 10:18 |
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| Ohm | C-programmers: How does one check what data-type a a pointer is pointing to? | 14:59 |
| Ohm | Like, intp(x) or something | 14:59 |
| Ohm | returns true if int, false if not | 15:00 |
| Wyk3d | you have to know what it's pointing to in advance, you cannot check it's type | 15:00 |
| Wyk3d | a pointer is just an address | 15:00 |
| Wyk3d | with no information about type | 15:00 |
| Wyk3d | at run time | 15:00 |
| Wyk3d | at compile time you know what it points to | 15:01 |
| Ohm | So there's nothing like the find utility that checks the structure of something and figures out what it is? | 15:02 |
| Wyk3d | well there is dynamic_cast | 15:02 |
| Ohm | but yeah, I guess figuring out the difference between an int and a char would be hard | 15:02 |
| Wyk3d | but there's no difference between an 16 bit int and a float | 15:03 |
| Ohm | aye | 15:03 |
| Wyk3d | yes | 15:03 |
| Ohm | okay, thanks anyways | 15:03 |
| Wyk3d | you can find differences between classes | 15:03 |
| Wyk3d | what did you want to do anyway ? | 15:03 |
| Ohm | no idea, it was a friend wondering | 15:08 |
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| Ohm | I see plenty of _("asdf") strings in the python code | 17:01 |
| Ohm | what does the _() stuff do? | 17:02 |
| Ohm | dlg = wx.MessageDialog(self.application.gui.current, msg, _("Update?"), wx.YES_NO|wx.YES_DEFAULT|wx.ICON_INFORMATION) | 17:07 |
| Ohm | for example | 17:07 |
| llnz | oh, i believe that marks a string as needed translation | 17:08 |
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| llnz | hi mithro | 17:09 |
| JLP | Ohm: it's for translation | 17:09 |
| mithro | morning llnz | 17:09 |
| Ohm | ah | 17:09 |
| Ohm | so does it have any programmatic meaning, or is it just a note in the code for "things that need attention" | 17:10 |
| Ohm | or perhaps an automated way of looking the string up in a language table? | 17:10 |
| llnz | the latter, iirc | 17:11 |
| mithro | gettext? | 17:11 |
| Ohm | _("some string) | 17:12 |
| Ohm | also hi | 17:16 |
| Ohm | so it seems to me that the config window has no settings of it's own, but instead fetches individual settings-pages from each other window? | 17:17 |
| mithro | Ohm: this tpclient-pywx? | 17:18 |
| mithro | each primary window can provide a preferences panel | 17:18 |
| mithro | Ohm: look at "class ConfigMixIn(object):" in winBase.py | 17:19 |
| Ohm | yes, tpclient-pywx | 17:19 |
| Ohm | thanks, I'll check it | 17:19 |
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| mithro | have to head to work | 17:24 |
| mithro | i'll be back in 30 minutes | 17:24 |
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| Ohm | jesus christ it's hard to get into Python | 17:31 |
| Ohm | *python code | 17:31 |
| Ohm | variables don't need declaration, and I haven't got a good grasp of how Python treats scope | 17:31 |
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| Ohm | hey again | 17:50 |
| Ohm | I dislike the lack of variable declarations :( | 17:50 |
| Ohm | It's hard to tell which functions share variables and which just happen to name them identically | 17:51 |
| mithro | Ohm: hrm? | 17:51 |
| mithro | in python globals are FROUND apon | 17:52 |
| Ohm | gooood | 17:52 |
| Ohm | thank god | 17:52 |
| Ohm | also, saw a button variable named "butt" ... :/ | 17:53 |
| mithro | Ohm: have a look at - http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0020/ | 17:53 |
| tpb | Title: PEP 20 -- The Zen of Python (at www.python.org) | 17:53 |
| Ohm | thanks | 17:53 |
| Lukstr | mithro: careless globals are always frowned upon :P | 17:53 |
| Ohm | I've read some python guides | 17:54 |
| Ohm | some interesting things | 17:54 |
| Ohm | one thing I don't understand, though | 17:54 |
| Ohm | lists are passed by reference, while other things are passed by value | 17:54 |
| Ohm | WHY? | 17:54 |
| Ohm | to make it more lispy? | 17:54 |
| mithro | Ohm: nope, you misunderstand | 17:55 |
| Lukstr | lists are generally always passed by reference? | 17:55 |
| mithro | everything in python is "passed by reference" | 17:55 |
| mithro | python does not have any "basic types" everything is a first class object | 17:56 |
| mithro | (including ints, longs, floats, etc) | 17:56 |
| Ohm | okay | 17:58 |
| mithro | ints, longs, floats and strings are all "immutable" however | 17:58 |
| Ohm | def nochange(x): x = 0 | 17:59 |
| Ohm | y = 1 | 17:59 |
| Ohm | nochange(y) | 17:59 |
| Ohm | print y # Prints out 1 | 17:59 |
| Ohm | ooh | 17:59 |
| mithro | Ohm: so does this | 18:00 |
| mithro | def nochange(x): x = ['hello'] | 18:00 |
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| Ohm | aye | 18:00 |
| mithro | y = ['not hello'] | 18:00 |
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| mithro | nochange(y) | 18:00 |
| Ohm | So this applies only toe int, long, float and string types? | 18:00 |
| mithro | print y # prints out ['not hello'] | 18:00 |
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| mithro | Ohm: think of python variables as pointers | 18:01 |
| mithro | (if you are a C junky) | 18:01 |
| Ohm | no thanks | 18:01 |
| Ohm | I'll just think of them as variables passed by reference. :) | 18:01 |
| Lukstr | same thing :P | 18:01 |
| Ohm | i know | 18:02 |
| Ohm | Can I specify if my own object types are immutable or not? | 18:02 |
| Lukstr | I'm sure you can, not sure how | 18:03 |
| mithro | Ohm: varibales passed by references is not quite right | 18:03 |
| mithro | think of them as pointers passed by value | 18:03 |
| Lukstr | so every variable is a reference? | 18:03 |
| Ohm | mithro: but if I print them, I'll get their content, not their memory adress, right? | 18:05 |
| mithro | Ohm: yes | 18:05 |
| Ohm | I mean, a pointer wouldn't act that way | 18:05 |
| mithro | you actually get the output of either there __str__ or __repr__ function | 18:06 |
| Ohm | I'd have to dereference it | 18:06 |
| Ohm | mithro: Oh, what's __repr__ ? | 18:06 |
| mithro | __repr__ is a magic method found on a class which is suppose to return a "evaluable" (see help(eval) version of the object) | 18:07 |
| Ohm | oh, cool | 18:07 |
| mithro | be back in 5 | 18:10 |
| mithro | back | 18:17 |
| Ohm | wb - how's work? | 18:18 |
| mithro | http://pastebin.ca/929725 | 18:19 |
| tpb | Title: general pastebin - mithro - post number 929725 (at pastebin.ca) | 18:19 |
| mithro | Ohm: give that a look | 18:19 |
| Ohm | read it | 18:22 |
| Ohm | hm | 18:22 |
| Ohm | interesting way to do things | 18:23 |
| Ohm | # | 18:23 |
| Ohm | def changeme(y): | 18:23 |
| Ohm | # y += 1 | 18:24 |
| Ohm | How would I go about that instead, then? | 18:24 |
| Ohm | would I need to do something like | 18:24 |
| Ohm | def changeme(y): | 18:24 |
| Ohm | return y+1 | 18:24 |
| Ohm | and then do | 18:24 |
| Ohm | y = changeme(y) | 18:24 |
| mithro | if you meant that last line to be "x = changeme(x)" then yes | 18:25 |
| Ohm | Well, either would be the same, right? | 18:25 |
| mithro | yeah | 18:26 |
| mithro | but the y inside changeme is different to the y outside | 18:26 |
| Ohm | so no way of assigning a new value to the variable passed to me? | 18:26 |
| mithro | Ohm: nope | 18:27 |
| Ohm | something like void function changeme(&x){x++}; | 18:27 |
| mithro | Python does not have ** pointers | 18:27 |
| Ohm | alright | 18:27 |
| Ohm | Enforces a more functional way of writing things (more focus on returning values rather than doing magic to variables) so I'm happy with it :) | 18:28 |
| Ohm | this still confuses me a bit | 18:31 |
| Ohm | def change(some_list): some_list[1] = 4 | 18:31 |
| Ohm | x = [1,2,3] | 18:31 |
| Ohm | change(x) | 18:31 |
| Ohm | print x # Prints out [1,4,3] | 18:31 |
| Lukstr | that makes perfect sense? | 18:32 |
| Ohm | only a bit | 18:32 |
| Lukstr | what doesn't make sense to you? | 18:32 |
| Lukstr | you set the second element in x to 4 | 18:32 |
| Ohm | right, but if x had been an integer and I had set it to 4, it would not have worked that way | 18:33 |
| mithro | some_list[1] = 4 is just syntactic suger | 18:33 |
| mithro | for | 18:33 |
| mithro | some_list.__setitem__(1, 4) | 18:33 |
| Ohm | ah | 18:34 |
| jotham | so much programming is | 18:34 |
| Ohm | makes sense then | 18:34 |
| mithro | "print x" is just syntatic sugar for "sys.stdout.write(x.__str__())" | 18:34 |
| jotham | trying to explain to some guy functionInstance.call(functionInstance, arg0) and functionInstance(arg0); were equivilent | 18:34 |
| Lukstr | there's nothing wrong with syntatic sugar, is there? | 18:34 |
| Lukstr | s/syntatic/syntactic/ | 18:34 |
| jotham | i think there is a bit if people don't know that its sugar | 18:35 |
| Ohm | Lukstr: definitely not | 18:35 |
| mithro | "print x" is even going away in Python 3.0 (it's becoming "print(x)") | 18:35 |
| Lukstr | well in C myarray[index] = 4; is just syntactic sugar too | 18:35 |
| Lukstr | yet most new developers have no idea how | 18:36 |
| jotham | i wrinkle my nose at python 3 | 18:36 |
| Lukstr | or what that actually does | 18:37 |
| jotham | they are discouraging functional programming | 18:37 |
| jotham | 'import this' has become a dogma not advice | 18:37 |
| jotham | which makes me sad | 18:37 |
| mithro | jotham: what functional programming have they removed? | 18:38 |
| jotham | oh there was a whole bunch of proposals i read | 18:38 |
| jotham | i don't know where any of them got to | 18:38 |
| jotham | removing stuff like map() | 18:38 |
| Ohm | D: | 18:38 |
| jotham | i haven't checked in for a couple of months | 18:38 |
| Ohm | that's horrible | 18:38 |
| mithro | jotham: because you can use list comprehensions now | 18:39 |
| mithro | which do everything map does and are clearer | 18:39 |
| jotham | which people in #python who live by 'import this' believe to be unpythonic | 18:39 |
| jotham | god #python makes me want to gut my eyesockets at times | 18:39 |
| mithro | (oh and dictionary comprehensions :) | 18:39 |
| Ohm | i'm heading to bed | 18:39 |
| jotham | i use list comprehension a fair bit | 18:39 |
| Ohm | see you tomorro | 18:39 |
| jotham | bye Ohm | 18:39 |
| mithro | jotham: map/apply/reduce have all been removed because nobody used them correctly and list/dict comprehensions work so much better (and are faster) | 18:40 |
| jotham | i didn't know it was faster, that's good to know | 18:43 |
| jotham | the only good thing i saw to come out of the peps for 3 was unicode type hinting | 18:43 |
| * llnz wanders off to go to airport | 20:03 | |
| llnz | cya later | 20:04 |
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| mithro | JLP: ping? | 20:22 |
| JLP_ | mithro: pong | 20:22 |
| mithro | JLP: how goes the videos? - any luck with a subtitled version? | 20:23 |
| JLP_ | mithro: no ptogress yet, i'm kinda waiting to get home and do it on the other computer with a properly working soundcard | 20:25 |
| mithro | JLP: do you think you have some time to take on another fairly important task? | 20:25 |
| JLP_ | mithro: depends on how important and hard it is | 20:26 |
| mithro | JLP: well, we really to set the forums up again | 20:27 |
| mithro | (as you have mentioned) | 20:27 |
| JLP_ | mithro: hm, i've never done this before, what would i need to do? | 20:29 |
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| mithro | Step 1 - Setup PHPBB 3.0 | 20:30 |
| mithro | Step 2 - Setup mail2forum 2.0 | 20:31 |
| mithro | Step 3 - Import mailing list archives | 20:31 |
| JLP | mithro: i can try, although i would have to read up about it before to see how to do it | 20:33 |
| mithro | JLP: well I've only done it once :) | 20:33 |
| * JLP like the banner on phpbb website, could fit nicely on our forum :) | 20:33 | |
| mithro | JLP: Step 4 - Find a phpbb 3.0 theme which fits with our website | 20:34 |
| mithro | JLP: I don't really want to run it on the same server as the rest of the thousand parsec services | 20:35 |
| mithro | so, Step 0 - Find a hosting service | 20:35 |
| mithro | something around $10-20 a month would be fine | 20:36 |
| mithro | JLP: I just don't have time to deal with setting up the forums :/ | 20:36 |
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| mithro | JLP: I think you should start with the tp users list too | 20:37 |
| mithro | anyway heading to lunch | 20:37 |
| mithro | bblr | 20:37 |
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| bddebian | Howdy | 20:50 |
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| mithro | hi Appleman1234 | 21:28 |
| mithro | hey bddebian | 21:28 |
| bddebian | Hi mithro | 21:28 |
| Appleman1234 | hi | 21:28 |
| mithro | Appleman1234: so :) | 21:29 |
| Appleman1234 | ? | 21:29 |
| Appleman1234 | bbl | 21:30 |
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| bddebian | Hmm, scared him away | 21:37 |
| mithro | :/ | 21:41 |
| mithro | bddebian: atleast you have nerves of steel :) | 21:41 |
| bddebian | heh | 21:42 |
| mithro | so we have working tpclient-pywx packages for gusty and hardy now? | 21:46 |
| mithro | JLP: so had any thoughts about the forums? :P | 21:46 |
| JLP | mithro: looking at various webhosting providers, so many of them, too much | 21:47 |
| bddebian | mithro: Afiak, why is it not working for you? | 21:48 |
| mithro | bddebian: it's still requiring twisted | 21:49 |
| mithro | The following extra packages will be installed: | 21:49 |
| mithro | python-tp-client python-tp-netlib python-twisted-bin python-twisted-core python-zopeinterface | 21:49 |
| mithro | :/ | 21:50 |
| bddebian | Oh waah | 21:51 |
| mithro | otherwise it works | 21:51 |
| bddebian | :-) | 21:51 |
| bddebian | Actually I fixed it in svn but probably haven't re-uploaded :-( | 21:52 |
| mithro | bddebian: should there also be | 21:53 |
| mithro | http://packages.thousandparsec.net/ubuntu/gutsy/ | 21:53 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/1dcP> (at packages.thousandparsec.net) | 21:53 |
| mithro | and | 21:53 |
| mithro | http://packages.thousandparsec.net/ubuntu/dists/gutsy/ | 21:53 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/1dcQ> (at packages.thousandparsec.net) | 21:53 |
| mithro | bddebian: it looks like they have been uploaded to incoming | 21:54 |
| mithro | http://packages.thousandparsec.net/ubuntu/incoming/ | 21:54 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/1dcT> (at packages.thousandparsec.net) | 21:54 |
| mithro | just not in the repository | 21:54 |
| bddebian | I stick them in incoming before importing them to the repo | 21:54 |
| mithro | Get:1 http://packages.thousandparsec.net hardy/universe python-tp-client 0.3.0-1tp1 [55.1kB] | 21:54 |
| tpb | Title: Index of / (at packages.thousandparsec.net) | 21:54 |
| mithro | Get:2 http://packages.thousandparsec.net hardy/universe python-tp-netlib 0.2.3-1tp1 [63.2kB] | 21:54 |
| mithro | Get:3 http://packages.thousandparsec.net hardy/universe tpclient-pywx 0.3.0-1tp1 [3202kB] | 21:54 |
| bddebian | Typically a repository will having new stuff come into incoming and a cron job sweeps incoming and imports. | 21:55 |
| mithro | looks like it should be downloading 1tp2 ? | 21:55 |
| bddebian | Gutsy should. hardy is still tp1 | 21:57 |
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| mithro | ahh okay | 22:03 |
| mithro | bddebian: still no email either :) | 22:08 |
| bddebian | I know, I'm sorry. I really need to spend some time on documentation. | 22:09 |
| mithro | JLP: don't worry to much about who we host it with, as long as they offer a way to get a copy of the database | 22:09 |
| bddebian | BTW, I don't think I can do starmapper. :-( I just don't know shit about java. | 22:09 |
| mithro | bddebian: do you think you can find someone who could help do it? | 22:18 |
| bddebian | I'll ask around the games team but I didn't have much success when I tried that with megamek | 22:22 |
| mithro | bddebian: jezuch (the author) would probably be interested in helping you figure it out too | 22:23 |
| JLP | mithro: ok, will keep that in mind | 22:29 |
| JLP | 4:30 am here now so is hould probably already be sleeping | 22:29 |
| mithro | JLP: would be good if you document it too | 22:29 |
| mithro | JLP: yeah, sounds like you should be in bed :) | 22:29 |
| JLP | will continue looking when I wake up | 22:30 |
| mithro | JLP: okay cool | 22:30 |
| JLP | good night all | 22:30 |
| bddebian | Gnight JLP | 22:30 |
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