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| mithro | hello krazytekn0 | 00:28 |
| krazytekn0 | Hello | 00:28 |
| mithro | krazytekn0: you where around yesterday? | 00:30 |
| krazytekn0 | mithro: Yeah, but I never seemed to be near my computer when anyone was talking to me... | 00:30 |
| mithro | krazytekn0: well, I'm around now :) | 00:31 |
| krazytekn0 | :) Well, I'm thinking about trying to help out but I'm not sure how useful I can be to the project. I just learned about it a few days ago | 00:32 |
| mithro | krazytekn0: where you the person who commented on Slashdot? | 00:33 |
| krazytekn0 | yeah, that was me | 00:33 |
| krazytekn0 | mithro you're the other commenter then? | 00:33 |
| mithro | yeah | 00:33 |
| mithro | I'm the founder of Thousand Parsec | 00:33 |
| mithro | and the primary client developer | 00:34 |
| krazytekn0 | cool. nice to meet you | 00:34 |
| krazytekn0 | I'm working on setting up the development environment on my MacBook right now. I also have a home server running ubuntu gutsy. | 00:36 |
| mithro | krazytekn0: you following the howto on the website? | 00:37 |
| krazytekn0 | yeah | 00:37 |
| krazytekn0 | I'm installing all the deps right now. I'm so close to just putting ubuntu on this computer, I miss apt! | 00:38 |
| krazytekn0 | mithro, how long have you been working on tp? | 00:41 |
| mithro | krazytekn0: about 7 years I think | 00:41 |
| mithro | since 2001 | 00:41 |
| krazytekn0 | mithro, well I hope to help out as much as I can. I probably won't be doing it for gsoc because I'm not currently enrolled anywhere. | 00:47 |
| krazytekn0 | This will be the first real project I'll be involved with so I've got a lot to learn though. | 00:48 |
| mithro | krazytekn0: cool | 00:56 |
| mithro | what are you mainly interested in? | 00:56 |
| krazytekn0 | mithro: mostly just learning whatever I can, but aside from that the first area I see where I might be able to help best might be documentation/user messages and such. | 00:58 |
| krazytekn0 | That I think would let me do some real work while getting to know the way the whole thing works. | 00:59 |
| mithro | your a C++ person right? | 01:08 |
| krazytekn0 | I've done most of my classes in C++ and C. | 01:11 |
| krazytekn0 | so I guess | 01:11 |
| krazytekn0 | :) | 01:12 |
| mithro | probably helping out with tpserver-cpp is your best bet | 01:12 |
| mithro | unless you want to learn python and help with tpclient-pywx | 01:13 |
| krazytekn0 | ok thanks, I'll check it out. | 01:14 |
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| mithro | JLP: ping? | 02:43 |
| mithro | probably not up yet | 02:44 |
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| llnz | hi all | 04:19 |
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| llnz | hi mithro | 04:22 |
| llnz | using sections for "Required Skills" and "More Information" looks bad, imnsho | 04:29 |
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| JLP | ahoy * | 05:13 |
| JLP | mithro: pong | 05:13 |
| mithro | hey JLP | 05:13 |
| mithro | JLP: can you help with the Thousand Parsec Launchpad project? | 05:14 |
| mithro | hi jensse70_ | 05:14 |
| jensse70_ | hi there | 05:14 |
| JLP | mithro: yeah, i hope | 05:14 |
| JLP | jensse70_: ahoy | 05:15 |
| mithro | JLP: can you add me to the project? | 05:15 |
| mithro | llnz: can you sign my GPG key? | 05:15 |
| jensse70_ | im just popping by to see what its all about | 05:16 |
| JLP | mithro: we switching from sf to LP? | 05:16 |
| llnz | hummm.... should i do so without seeing id........ | 05:16 |
| mithro | JLP: possibly | 05:16 |
| JLP | mithro: wouldn't be bad | 05:16 |
| * llnz thought we where moving from sf to code.google.com? | 05:17 | |
| * JLP doesn't like sf too much | 05:17 | |
| mithro | llnz: looking at options :) | 05:17 |
| llnz | ah, ok | 05:17 |
| mithro | wanted to check out the Issues tracker | 05:17 |
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| JLP | mithro: hm don't see where exactly i can add developers, i set you as a driver for the project | 05:24 |
| mithro | JLP: that is probably what I need? | 05:24 |
| mithro | JLP: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/25816 | 05:25 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/1bfl> (at answers.launchpad.net) | 05:25 |
| JLP | mithro: yeah, i was also looking for h | 05:31 |
| JLP | tthis when i created TP on LP but couldn't find i | 05:31 |
| * JLP thinks he isn't totaly wake up yet :) | 05:32 | |
| mithro | JLP: it can only be done by an admin | 05:32 |
| mithro | the Blueprint stuff looks like it could be useful for the TODO stuff | 05:32 |
| mithro | it even has way to register that you would mentor the stuff | 05:32 |
| JLP | yup, and the translation stuff is available right there thru a web ibterface | 05:35 |
| mithro | yes | 05:36 |
| JLP | although we at KDE don't like the translations from LP, they are mostly very low quality, we prefer the setablished system with translation coordinators and reviewers and teams | 05:37 |
| mithro | JLP: okay | 05:40 |
| * JLP fetches something for breakfast | 05:51 | |
| JLP | Applema1234 mentions TP in his latest blog - http://applemansigloo.net/blog/2008/02/28/the-voice-of-silence-delays-and-expectations-progess | 06:02 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/1bgF> (at applemansigloo.net) | 06:02 |
| mithro | JLP: is that page fluro green on your browser? | 06:04 |
| JLP | mithro: purple/green | 06:06 |
| mithro | :/ | 06:08 |
| * JLP is reading bzflag gsoc 2007 post mortem, they did a fine job with this | 06:24 | |
| mithro | yeah | 06:25 |
| mithro | we should do one regarding greywhind and the new Uni students | 06:27 |
| JLP | yup, would be great | 06:27 |
| * JLP adds "Learn basics of Scribus" to his TODO list | 06:28 | |
| Ohm | morning everybody | 06:30 |
| Ohm | And yeah, that post-mortem was well done | 06:30 |
| JLP | Ohm: morning | 06:30 |
| llnz | hi Ohm | 06:30 |
| Ohm | Does launchpad provide you with hosting the way sf does? | 06:31 |
| mithro | Ohm: only for bzr | 06:31 |
| Ohm | Also, I'm glad to see they are finally providing the community with launchpad. It's quite a piece of software. | 06:31 |
| Ohm | bzr?? | 06:31 |
| mithro | its a DRCS like git | 06:32 |
| mithro | http://bazaar-vcs.org/ | 06:33 |
| tpb | Title: Welcome - Bazaar Version Control (at bazaar-vcs.org) | 06:33 |
| Ohm | ah | 06:34 |
| Ohm | bbl | 06:34 |
| Ohm | hi again | 07:01 |
| Ohm | oh damn, I've got to head out | 07:02 |
| Ohm | later | 07:02 |
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| llnz | later all | 07:48 |
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| bddebian | Howdy | 10:19 |
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| AquaFox|Laptop | =) | 10:19 |
| AquaFox|Laptop | Checking out tpservercpp code :D. | 10:20 |
| jlp | bddebian, AquaFox|Laptop: ahoy | 10:21 |
| AquaFox|Laptop | ahoy jlp | 10:21 |
| bddebian | Hello jlp | 10:21 |
| * jlp is ordering a cheap microphone so he can add sound to TP tutorial screencast | 10:22 | |
| bddebian | nice | 10:24 |
| jlp | we'll se how nice it will be with my non-native english accent :) | 10:28 |
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| Lukstr|Zzz | hey all | 11:58 |
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| Lukstr | well then. | 11:58 |
| JLP | Lukstr: ahoy | 12:02 |
| Lukstr | howdy | 12:02 |
| Lukstr | what's new? | 12:02 |
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| Ohm | Could somebody please explain to me what remains to be done on tpruledev? | 12:28 |
| Ohm | Or provide a url to good info | 12:28 |
| Lukstr | Looks kinda unfinished; | 12:28 |
| Lukstr | does it run? | 12:28 |
| Lukstr | http://git.thousandparsec.net/gitweb/gitweb.cgi?p=tpruledev.git;a=blob;f=README;h=dcd1377f3cca73c3d5f5685173d5fc4a1856ab54;hb=HEAD | 12:29 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/1bnD> (at git.thousandparsec.net) | 12:29 |
| Lukstr | and: http://git.thousandparsec.net/gitweb/gitweb.cgi?p=tpruledev.git;a=blob;f=notes.txt;h=04afa1dd66869c171c4c1991ccf1bf381dc147cf;hb=HEAD | 12:30 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/1bnE> (at git.thousandparsec.net) | 12:30 |
| Ohm | ah, thanks for urls | 12:31 |
| Lukstr | np | 12:31 |
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| Ohm | Are you guys sure the tpcl language isn't based on common lisp rather than scheme? | 15:01 |
| Ohm | tpcl would concievably stand for thousand parsec common lisp | 15:03 |
| Lukstr | Ohm: to what exactly are you referring to? Link? | 15:05 |
| Ohm | the language which describes rules and such | 15:07 |
| Ohm | check the two links you pasted for me aboev | 15:07 |
| Lukstr | 30 try:\r | 15:11 |
| Lukstr | 31 interp.eval(scheme.parse("(%s design)" % comp.tpcl_requirements))\r | 15:11 |
| Lukstr | 32 except SchemeError, e:\r | 15:11 |
| Lukstr | 33 comp.errors['tpcl_requirements'] = e.message\r | 15:11 |
| Lukstr | 34 valid = False\r | 15:11 |
| Lukstr | see: http://git.thousandparsec.net/gitweb/gitweb.cgi?p=tpruledev.git;a=blob;f=src/tpcl/ComponentTpcl.py;h=fa43ea6d25e6d5e084eba9f6c34a09f1dd8fb2a7;hb=HEAD | 15:11 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/1bqS> (at git.thousandparsec.net) | 15:11 |
| Lukstr | looks like it IS scheme, apparently | 15:11 |
| Ohm | strange way to name it | 15:12 |
| Lukstr | haha yeah | 15:13 |
| Lukstr | threw me for a loop too | 15:13 |
| Ohm | all of the code could be either or | 15:15 |
| Ohm | at least all of the scheme-ish code for minisex | 15:15 |
| Ohm | *c | 15:15 |
| Ohm | damn those keys are close together | 15:15 |
| Lukstr | hah | 15:16 |
| Lukstr | maybe tpcl stands for TP Coding Language :P | 15:19 |
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| Lukstr | howdy Mithro | 16:52 |
| mithro | morning | 16:52 |
| Ohm | hey man | 16:52 |
| Ohm | any idea of what tpcl (the language) stands for? | 16:52 |
| mithro | Thousand Parsec Component Language | 16:57 |
| mithro | just about to head to work | 16:57 |
| Ohm | aha | 16:57 |
| Lukstr | hahah oh snap. | 16:57 |
| Ohm | We were figuring if it could actually be thousand parsec common lisp | 16:57 |
| Lukstr | very confusing, undocumented (or if it is, where?) acronym :P | 16:58 |
| Ohm | because out of the code-snippets I've seen, there is nothing to tell wether it's based on Scheme or Common Lisp | 16:58 |
| Lukstr | well it invokes a scheme interpreter | 16:59 |
| Lukstr | every once in a while | 16:59 |
| mithro | seeya! | 17:00 |
| Lukstr | have a good one | 17:00 |
| Ohm | mm, the beautify of being able to call the interpreter from inside the language | 17:02 |
| Lukstr | doesn't every language theoretically support that? | 17:03 |
| Ohm | remind me of that whenever I'm pissed while debugging | 17:03 |
| Ohm | Lukstr: theoretically, yes, but only lisp-like languages have a simple enough syntax for it to be usable | 17:03 |
| Lukstr | Syntax is syntax, it's all the same to the processor :P | 17:05 |
| Ohm | Yes, but not to the programmer. | 17:05 |
| Ohm | The reason you want access to the interpreter at runtime is to generate new code | 17:05 |
| Ohm | the easier the syntax, the easier it is to generate meaningful code | 17:06 |
| Lukstr | it matters not if the tool exists for me or not, but whether or not I could write it if it didn't | 17:10 |
| Ohm | Yes, it does. | 17:17 |
| Ohm | If everybody who reads lisp code knows about it, they will have no complaints or difficulties understanding your code. | 17:18 |
| Ohm | Whereas it would constitute more effort for them if you did something home-brew. | 17:18 |
| Ohm | The fact that it is there by default causes the culture of the programmers who use the language to change, and as such changes what "readable code" is in that language. | 17:19 |
| Ohm | And writing non-readable code is never desireable unless you're in an obfuscating competition or selling javascripts. | 17:19 |
| jotham | haha | 17:20 |
| Lukstr | but who mentioned non-readable code? | 17:21 |
| Ohm | I did. | 17:21 |
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| Ohm | But by non-readable, I actually meant hard-to-understand | 17:22 |
| Ohm | it is a simple question of homebrew VS standard practice | 17:22 |
| Lukstr | I'm not sure I follow; Your point is that if it's *standard* then it is more easily followed than *user-implemented*, correct? | 17:22 |
| Ohm | Almost. | 17:23 |
| Ohm | My point is that if it is standard, then people will instinctively know what a small snippet of code means. | 17:23 |
| Ohm | Whereas they will have to consult documentation or read the code of your code-generator to realise what your code-generating fucntion calls actually do. | 17:23 |
| jotham | right now i'm fighting with encouraging my team not to add 'features' to classes | 17:24 |
| jotham | good times | 17:24 |
| Ohm | right now I am listening to a man making strange noises with his throat | 17:24 |
| Ohm | Yat-Kha are so awesome it hurts | 17:24 |
| Lukstr | But what is a standard but documentation for an API? There's no difference between that and a homebrewed API | 17:24 |
| jotham | i'm watching a youtube of monolake showing off his monodeck II | 17:24 |
| Ohm | Lukstr: The difference is that they will already have learned one, while they will have to learn the other. | 17:25 |
| Ohm | For somebody unfamiliar with the language, they are the same, of course. | 17:25 |
| Lukstr | This happens all the time in the world though, many people write their own implementations of already supported and included functions | 17:26 |
| Ohm | All I am saying is that if it is standard, there is a much greater chance for understanding up on recognition, rather than understanding after investigation. | 17:26 |
| Ohm | Lukstr: Yes, it does. Very much so. | 17:26 |
| Ohm | But I do not see how relevant that is to our discussion. | 17:26 |
| Lukstr | Well, I guess you were arguing that lisp-like languages are beautiful in that they have in-built support for interpreting language they produce | 17:27 |
| Lukstr | but so does every other language, I guess you're just saying lisp is better? | 17:27 |
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| Ohm | I am saying that that feature is extra powerful in symbiosis with a simple syntax. | 17:29 |
| Lukstr | I suppose | 17:29 |
| Ohm | http://owner.rnachoctb.org/kargiraam.mp3 | 17:29 |
| Ohm | listen to that | 17:29 |
| Ohm | it's so awesome | 17:29 |
| Ohm | mongolian throat singing | 17:29 |
| Lukstr | this is weird | 17:30 |
| Ohm | Yes. | 17:30 |
| Ohm | It's a pretty damn cool skill. You do some strange things and are suddenly able to produce several different tones at once, to create harmonies. | 17:30 |
| Lukstr | lawl | 17:31 |
| Ohm | of course, that track is mostly hilarious to listen to | 17:31 |
| Ohm | but when joined with normal music and normal singing, it's quite cool | 17:31 |
| Lukstr | I can imagine | 17:31 |
| Ohm | want me to upload a less strange track? | 17:32 |
| Lukstr | hahah | 17:32 |
| Lukstr | whatever floats your boat | 17:32 |
| Lukstr | go for it | 17:32 |
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| Ohm | http://owner.rnachoctb.org/kozhamyk.mp3 | 17:33 |
| Lukstr | where is this musics origin, Mongolia? | 17:34 |
| Ohm | I think so | 17:35 |
| Lukstr | crazy | 17:35 |
| Ohm | check the wikipedia article on yat-kha | 17:35 |
| Lukstr | it's supertramp + Cicada + Justice for me today :P | 17:35 |
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| JLP | xdotx: yo | 18:33 |
| mithro | hey xdotx | 18:33 |
| xdotx | JLP: hey | 18:33 |
| mithro | xdotx: I think you have probably seen that GSoC has been announced again :) | 18:34 |
| xdotx | mithro: of course i was anticipating it | 18:34 |
| JLP | mithro: have you seen the first run at the tutorial | 18:36 |
| mithro | JLP: I saw the first link you send me | 18:36 |
| mithro | it was really good | 18:36 |
| mithro | just need to add sound? | 18:36 |
| JLP | yup, sound, and cut out all the long the pauses | 18:37 |
| JLP | and i think i will put it in shorter chunks, only connection, only a tour around the window, issuing orders .... | 18:37 |
| mithro | JLP: probably a good idea | 18:38 |
| mithro | you can then use something like annodex to make a "tutorial playlist" | 18:38 |
| JLP | i ordered some cheap microphone and it should arrive tomorrow or a day after | 18:38 |
| mithro | JLP: llnz thinks that the headings for skills/moreinfo looks bad | 18:40 |
| JLP | mithro: there is a css file for all this right? maybe we should play with it some day | 18:41 |
| Ohm | What are you using to create the tutorial? | 18:41 |
| JLP | i could agree that it is quite hard to separate some sections sometimes and things like that | 18:41 |
| JLP | Ohm: just recordMyDesktop with Qt GUI | 18:42 |
| Ohm | ah, nice | 18:42 |
| Ohm | Are you doing the tutorial in a task-oriented or gui-oriented fashion? | 18:42 |
| JLP | i think it will be a mix, connecting to server is more like a atsk oriented stuff, a tour arround the main window a gui oriented one, others will also probably be more task oriented | 18:43 |
| Ohm | sounds like a good idea | 18:47 |
| Ohm | very good, in fact | 18:47 |
| Ohm | since the main screen is something you want to get familiar with, as it can otherwise feel daunting | 18:47 |
| JLP | i just hope that my english doesn't sound too funny :) | 18:52 |
| Ohm | Where are you from? | 18:53 |
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| JLP | Ohm: Slovenia | 19:00 |
| Ohm | ah | 19:01 |
| Ohm | I believe it is time to head to bed. | 19:15 |
| Ohm | Today has been a mildly productive day. | 19:15 |
| Ohm | Perhaps 5-6 hours of work | 19:16 |
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| krazytekn0 | hello everyone! | 20:55 |
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| mithro | hello Appleman1234! | 21:23 |
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| Lukstr | howdy all | 21:24 |
| Lukstr | (my irc client keeps biting the bullet) | 21:24 |
| mithro | Lukstr: I see | 21:26 |
| Lukstr | most often whenever I return from being away | 21:26 |
| Lukstr | are you busy mithro? | 21:27 |
| mithro | a little | 21:27 |
| Lukstr | ah, I won't bother you then | 21:27 |
| mithro | Lukstr: if you ask away other people might answer too :) | 21:32 |
| Lukstr | Oh, okay then | 21:33 |
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| Lukstr | Well, I was curious why you decided on space based 4X games instead of just 4X games in general? | 21:33 |
| Lukstr | Well, besides being awesome. What's limiting your engine from handling something like a civ clone | 21:34 |
| mithro | because civ clones already existed | 21:42 |
| Lukstr | I know, but is there that much difference between regular 4X games and space-based 4X games? | 21:51 |
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| whitet | space? ;) | 22:02 |
| mithro | Lukstr: it's much cooler :) | 22:08 |
| mithro | 3d coordinates | 22:08 |
| Lukstr | why not arbitrary coordinates? | 22:11 |
| Lukstr | I don't know, guess I'm just crazy | 22:11 |
| mithro | Freeciv and freecolonisation and Lincity already exist | 22:13 |
| mithro | plus - less scope means that you are more likely to succeed | 22:13 |
| Lukstr | hmm | 22:14 |
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| * mithro pokes jotham | 22:32 | |
| c_ntmonkeys | hey | 22:32 |
| Lukstr | crap, mithro: what was the wiki page you had the other day, for ideas for 2008 SoC? | 22:41 |
| mithro | jotham: want to come back with a suitable nick, we don't support c coding on Windows NT Monkey :) | 22:41 |
| Lukstr | (is it bad that that's the first thing I thought of too?) | 22:41 |
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| mithro | http://www.thousandparsec.net/wiki/Ideas_for_Programmers :) | 22:41 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/1ZnB> (at www.thousandparsec.net) | 22:41 |
| Lukstr | awesome thanks | 22:42 |
| Lukstr | need some light night reading material, and I'm running out of man pages and IEEE specs | 22:42 |
| Lukstr | re: minisec rules, is it not redundant to say you lose if all your planets are destroyed AND if your homeworld is destroyed? | 22:46 |
| Lukstr | oh, server dependant | 22:46 |
| Lukstr | my bad, nvm | 22:46 |
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| mithro | hey krazytekn0 | 23:35 |
| mithro | had any luck? | 23:35 |
| krazytekn0 | I've been poking around the sources for tpserver-cpp and galaxie... But honestly haven't had much time the last few days | 23:36 |
| mithro | krazytekn0: okay cool | 23:39 |
| mithro | krazytekn0: it's good to see you have not run away screaming yet | 23:39 |
| mithro | tpserver-cpp still has plenty of warts | 23:39 |
| krazytekn0 | mithro: no not yet! I'm pretty hard-headed! | 23:40 |
| mithro | hrm | 23:40 |
| mithro | no nash today | 23:40 |
| * mithro pokes xdotx | 23:40 | |
| krazytekn0 | nash is the guy making galaxie right? | 23:41 |
| Lukstr | what mailing lists would you suggest I sign up to? | 23:48 |
| mithro | Lukstr: tp-devel, tp-announce | 23:51 |
| Lukstr | roger :) | 23:51 |
| Lukstr | night all | 23:56 |
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