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| nash | jotham: Seasons are whatever length seasons are | 00:03 |
|---|---|---|
| jotham | they have two typical lengths though | 00:04 |
| * daxxar yawns | 00:04 | |
| jotham | In the United States, most regular television series have 22 episodes per year. | 00:04 |
| jotham | woops | 00:04 |
| jotham | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_program#Seasons.2FSeries | 00:04 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/N4r> (at en.wikipedia.org) | 00:04 |
| nash | jotham: You don't watch much British TV? | 00:05 |
| jotham | no sir - i don't have a tv and only d/l torrented series | 00:05 |
| jotham | last things i watched were ghost in the shell sac 1/2, bsg 1,2,3, rome 1 (and now 2) | 00:05 |
| jotham | torchwood was too terrible for me to handle - and weeds was ok | 00:06 |
| jotham | torchwood being the only british series i've seen anything of recently | 00:06 |
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| jotham | i have no idea how long each season of the good life, fawlty towers, or yes minister ran for - but i enjoyed those | 00:06 |
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| nash | Fawlty is like 12 episodes ever... Many other are < 10 | 00:08 |
| nash | Seasons run as long as they need to run | 00:08 |
| nash | Anyway daxxar: You seen your bzflag messages? | 00:09 |
| jotham | well we were discussing an american series | 00:09 |
| jotham | and i was giving american season estimates | 00:09 |
| jotham | and it was expected to run for 20 or so | 00:09 |
| nash | 11 is often used for a half-season | 00:10 |
| jotham | this was 14 - that isn't applicable | 00:10 |
| jotham | tyranny of the masses i say | 00:10 |
| * nash pokes daxxar | 00:13 | |
| daxxar | nash: my comments? yes. | 00:22 |
| daxxar | nash: As I mentioned, I just got back from a cabin trip, I've been kinda decivilized. ;-) | 00:22 |
| daxxar | Why do you ask? | 00:22 |
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| nash | daxxar: Because you are applied and are short-listed for both projects. | 00:29 |
| nash | Unfortunately we need to work out which project gets to keep you on their list | 00:29 |
| nash | So which one are you more interested in? | 00:30 |
| daxxar | "short-listed"? | 00:30 |
| daxxar | But, urh. I don't want to decide. :p | 00:30 |
| Iwanowitch | Can I choose for you? :P | 00:30 |
| nash | heh | 00:30 |
| nash | bbs | 00:30 |
| daxxar | Iwanowitch: Harhar. ;-p | 00:33 |
| daxxar | I submitted only two proposals because I only found two projects I'm really "hot" for. :-)- | 00:34 |
| nash | daxxar: Well you are shortlisted for two porjects | 00:34 |
| daxxar | What does 'shortlisted' mean? | 00:35 |
| nash | sorry - I will be back in about 5 minutes (I"m at work currently) | 00:37 |
| Iwanowitch | daxxar: I guess it means that there are two projects that want you. | 00:37 |
| Iwanowitch | Where you are on the list of very interesting proposals. | 00:37 |
| daxxar | Iwanowitch: Oh, ok. Lucky me ;-) | 00:37 |
| daxxar | Ah, 'shortlist' as in 'the list that is short because we've only added those we find interesting to it'. =P | 00:38 |
| Iwanowitch | Yep. | 00:39 |
| Iwanowitch | This might not mean that you're automatically accepted, though... You should ask the developers about that, if they're willing to say so. | 00:40 |
| Iwanowitch | Might depend on available slots etc. | 00:40 |
| jotham | i believe the selected people will be listed on the 12th according to the timeline? | 00:40 |
| daxxar | Iwanowitch: I'm only "automagically accepted" if I'm #1 on the list in total, not just the list for one idea. Could be they don't rank that idea as highly needed to be finished etc. | 00:41 |
| jotham | 11th | 00:41 |
| jotham | http://thousandparsec.net/tp/google-summer-of-code-2007.php#Deadlines | 00:41 |
| daxxar | But, hey, hard to tell. I just need to figure out what I want to do | 00:41 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/N5Q> (at thousandparsec.net) | 00:41 |
| nash | Yeah.. essentially we rank from highest to lowest | 00:47 |
| nash | And anyone on the ranked list + an assigned mentor is what I'm referring to as shortlisted here | 00:48 |
| nash | If we get enough slots you'll be assigned one (basically google will assign from teh top of our list down to #slots) | 00:48 |
| nash | However if there is someone who has a positive score with an assigned mentor on two different projects there is a conflict | 00:49 |
| nash | In this case you are in the top requested slots for both projects (well you were) for tp and bzflag | 00:49 |
| nash | bzflag was still reviewing all last I saw | 00:50 |
| * nash wonders if brlcad is around | 00:50 | |
| nash | daxxar: Did you get all that? | 00:51 |
| nash | mithro: BTW: You wanted to discuss my tpproto-ecore implementation? | 00:52 |
| daxxar | I'm reading it now. | 00:52 |
| daxxar | brlcad was around a bit ago on #bzflag | 00:53 |
| mithro | nash: not right now | 00:55 |
| mithro | maybe this afternoon | 00:55 |
| mithro | might do it via email | 00:55 |
| nash | mithro: Okay | 00:55 |
| mithro | so many things to do, so little time :P | 00:55 |
| nash | I understand | 00:55 |
| mithro | bloody easter killing two days :/ | 01:00 |
| nash | mithro: Killing? Don't you mean adding two days you can get real work done without uni getting in the wat? | 01:01 |
| mithro | nash: as in, 2 days where I don't have access to the lab equipment | 01:03 |
| * brlcad is around | 01:03 | |
| nash | Ahh | 01:04 |
| nash | brlcad: Cool - | 01:04 |
| brlcad | it is quite comfortably cool here right now, yes :) | 01:06 |
| daxxar | Hrm, I don't know how I can decide. :p | 01:07 |
| nash | daxxar: We can decide for you if you like | 01:07 |
| nash | brlcad: Quick - it's the bat signal - to the bat cave | 01:08 |
| daxxar | Well, hm. Could be that would be the best, because I have no "clear" preference at the moment :S | 01:08 |
| jotham | god damn it i'm sick again | 01:08 |
| jotham | the last two months have been rediculous | 01:08 |
| jotham | like my immune system has vanished | 01:09 |
| * daxxar pets jotham | 01:09 | |
| daxxar | Sounds like a PITA :S | 01:09 |
| cherez | or HIV | 01:09 |
| jotham | heh | 01:09 |
| jotham | doctor says it's fatigue | 01:10 |
| jotham | + change of season | 01:10 |
| nash | daxxar: Sure you have no preference? | 01:13 |
| daxxar | Wish I could say that I have, but not at the current time. =) | 01:16 |
| * nash will get daxxar to make some decision... even if he has to get daxxar to write a RNG to do it | 01:17 | |
| Iwanowitch | Say, daxxar, what was your TP proposal? | 01:17 |
| nash | Which proposal do you htink is more worthwhile to it's respective project daxxar? | 01:17 |
| Iwanowitch | (if I'm allowed to ask) | 01:17 |
| daxxar | Iwanowitch: 3D client in C++ | 01:19 |
| daxxar | nash: Weell.. I suspect that TP could use a "shiny" client to bolster it's popularity and by that indirectly increase it's development rate, :) | 01:20 |
| nash | daxxar: Well proposals for 3d clients are quite popular ;-) | 01:21 |
| brlcad | daxxar: so what's your feel on what you want to be doing then? those are rather very different proposals :) | 01:22 |
| daxxar | nash: True, but bzf has a project that already partly fills the role of mine (called bzrc). | 01:23 |
| * brlcad agrees that a 3D client could potentially make a bigger impact but then I also personally don't need/want that for RFTS *ahem* :-) | 01:23 | |
| daxxar | brlcad: That's the problem, both are tasks that technically appeal to me. :-) | 01:24 |
| brlcad | yeah, daxxar would effectively be taking that (academic) work to the next level, working towards easily programmable agents so that players and server operators can actually provide non-braindead NPC's | 01:24 |
| nash | 3d client is quite umm... replaceable - there are a couple of other proposals which fill the gap | 01:25 |
| brlcad | not actually writing the bots necessarily, but the framework | 01:25 |
| daxxar | nash: I got the same impression from bzf, actually. (That they have people who proposed similar projects, whom're being seriously considered) | 01:26 |
| nash | daxxar: yes, | 01:26 |
| nash | daxxar: Did you reply to the comments in your bzflag one? | 01:27 |
| daxxar | Not yet, working on the last part of it. =) | 01:27 |
| brlcad | there's only one other serious AI contention | 01:27 |
| brlcad | and there's definiteily possibility to have both working on separate aspects | 01:27 |
| brlcad | but then that requires a slot count to confirm | 01:28 |
| daxxar | I'll post the reply now. =) | 01:29 |
| nash | cool | 01:29 |
| daxxar | There, posted. | 01:29 |
| daxxar | Btw, can you read my comments to the bzf-people, nash? | 01:29 |
| nash | daxxar: I can see it | 01:30 |
| daxxar | o.o | 01:30 |
| * daxxar regrets writing all those nasty things about nash | 01:30 | |
| daxxar | ;-) | 01:30 |
| nash | I was going to suggest you read the NSW slander rules before you comment next ;-) | 01:30 |
| daxxar | NSW slander? | 01:31 |
| daxxar | Hm, for future reference; writing comments at 3AM should probably be avoided. | 01:32 |
| daxxar | -> I take no responsibility for incoherent statements or typoes. ;-) | 01:32 |
| daxxar | brlcad: What alias does Andrew irc by? | 01:33 |
| nash | New South Wales -- state where I live ;-) Has some nasty slander laws ;-) | 01:36 |
| mithro | nash: in NSW does the burden of proof lay on the Slanderer or the Slanderee? | 01:37 |
| daxxar | nash: Ah, ;-) | 01:37 |
| nash | mithro: Not sure.. but I do know you can sue someone for slander _even if it is true_. | 01:38 |
| daxxar | Oh well. Do you guys need me further, nash & brlcad? | 01:38 |
| nash | Well only to say if you have a preference... Else we choose your fate... *muahahhaha* | 01:39 |
| Iwanowitch | In other words, they're going to push you around to each other until one of them gives in and accepts you. :P | 01:40 |
| nash | Exactly | 01:40 |
| Iwanowitch | Or even better, right now, at this moment, an epic conflict between TP and bzf starts which rages for centuries and eradicates most of humankind. | 01:41 |
| nash | I believe the conversation last went something like "You take him - he smells", to which they replied "No, he has cooties" | 01:41 |
| daxxar | Hahaha :-p | 01:42 |
| nash | Iwanowitch: we were going to run competing AIs on respective servers. However none of the TP AIs could find the move orders for tanks, and the bzflag hung waiting for the planets to finish jumping | 01:43 |
| Iwanowitch | XD | 01:43 |
| daxxar | *snicker* | 01:43 |
| daxxar | Oh well, you guys be gentle. :-) | 01:44 |
| daxxar | I'm going to bed, catch you tomorrow. :) | 01:44 |
| nash | night | 01:45 |
| nash | morning | 01:45 |
| nash | something | 01:45 |
| Iwanowitch | Yeah, I'm leaving too. | 01:45 |
| Iwanowitch | Night all. | 01:45 |
| brlcad | daxxar: amcnabb | 01:45 |
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| daxxar | brlcad: Nudge him and tell him I replied, if you see him. :) | 01:47 |
| daxxar | Good night! | 01:47 |
| brlcad | will do | 01:47 |
| Epyon | Woah, another bzf vs. tp conflict! Will we have Total Anihilation? xD | 02:36 |
| nash | Epyon: You started it! | 02:37 |
| Epyon | No way, I'm innocent! | 02:38 |
| * Epyon takes that back. | 02:38 | |
| nash | ;-) | 02:38 |
| Epyon | Now way, I'm innocent *in this particular case*. | 02:38 |
| Epyon | ! | 02:38 |
| Epyon | xD | 02:38 |
| Epyon | nash, no words on the slotcount? | 02:39 |
| nash | Not that I know off :-/ | 02:39 |
| Epyon | :/ | 02:39 |
| Epyon | Are you going to RNG-decide the former case? :P | 02:40 |
| nash | Yours? | 02:40 |
| Epyon | Nah, the one that was just discussed :> | 02:40 |
| nash | I think we came to a conclusion | 02:41 |
| Epyon | Mine also intersts me, accidentaly :P | 02:41 |
| nash | ? | 02:41 |
| Epyon | with brlcad? | 02:41 |
| Epyon | Curiosity -- how much slots you'd have to recieve to get all you want? | 02:42 |
| nash | 20 or so ;-) | 02:42 |
| nash | But 5 are the core apps.. 8-9 is the real sweet spot | 02:43 |
| Epyon | You've got 20 good unique apps? | 02:43 |
| nash | Well not unique at 20 - but we can have multiple of some things at that point | 02:43 |
| nash | Especially clients ;-) | 02:43 |
| Epyon | I meant without multiplication :) | 02:44 |
| nash | Not sure exactly | 02:44 |
| Epyon | Anyway, it's 5 in the mornin' here, I'm sleepbound. | 02:45 |
| nash | night | 02:45 |
| Epyon | g'night :) | 02:46 |
| nash | Anyway - I'm off to lunch then | 02:50 |
| mithro | yay! | 03:29 |
| mithro | my timing problem is solved | 03:30 |
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| * mithro boogies | 09:48 | |
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| llnz | hi | 10:37 |
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| llnz2_mlaptop | what happened to the topic? | 10:38 |
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| * llnz2 ponders | 10:46 | |
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| *** mithro changes topic to "Google SoC (due March 26th - Pacific) - http://www.thousandparsec.net/tp/google-summer-of-code-2007.php | AI Programming Competition (due March 31) - http://www.thousandparsec.net/tp/comp.php | Logs - http://www.thousandparsec.net/~irc/logs/ | metaserver - metaserver.thousandparsec.net | 2007-02-26, TP ranked 126th on SF" | 12:10 | |
| *** tpb changes topic to "Help us finish the game already! :) || http://www.thousandparsec.net/tp/rss.php || cpp-ser" | 12:10 | |
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| *** mithro changes topic to "Google SoC (due March 26th - Pacific) - http://www.thousandparsec.net/tp/google-summer-of-code-2007.php | AI Programming Competition (due March 31) - http://www.thousandparsec.net/tp/comp.php | Logs - http://www.thousandparsec.net/~irc/logs/ | metaserver - metaserver.thousandparsec.net | 2007-02-26, TP ranked 126th on SF" | 12:10 | |
| Iwanowitch | Whoah, topic wars. | 12:11 |
| *** mithro changes topic to "Google SoC (results 10th - Pacific) - http://www.thousandparsec.net/tp/google-summer-of-code-2007.php | AI Programming Competition (due March 31) - http://www.thousandparsec.net/tp/comp.php | Logs - http://www.thousandparsec.net/~irc/logs/ | metaserver - metaserver.thousandparsec.net | 2007-02-26, TP ranked 126th on SF" | 12:11 | |
| *** mithro changes topic to "Google SoC (results 10th April - Pacific) - http://www.thousandparsec.net/tp/google-summer-of-code-2007.php | AI Programming Competition (due March 31) - http://www.thousandparsec.net/tp/comp.php | Logs - http://www.thousandparsec.net/~irc/logs/ | metaserver - metaserver.thousandparsec.net | 2007-02-26, TP ranked 126th on SF" | 12:11 | |
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| mithro | TBBle: ping? | 12:19 |
| mithro | nash: ping? | 12:21 |
| Iwanowitch | Host unreachable, it seems. | 12:23 |
| TBBle | Pong | 12:24 |
| TBBle | But laggy. | 12:24 |
| mithro | TBBle: still no luck with the packages? | 12:25 |
| TBBle | Yeah. Managed to get into a bit of a disagreement with the guy who was going to sponsor one of my other packages, and then bought myself a Wii, so lost Sunday entirely. | 12:27 |
| * nash is back | 12:32 | |
| nash | mithro: You rang? | 12:32 |
| mithro | nash: got time to discuss some stuff? | 12:32 |
| nash | mithro: Yeah | 12:33 |
| nash | What would that be? | 12:33 |
| * nash notes no one replied to his mulitple messages to tpdevel today | 12:34 | |
| Iwanowitch | I saw them on the forum, but didn't get them by mail... | 12:34 |
| Iwanowitch | Could be something locally, though. | 12:34 |
| nash | Iwanowitch: You on tpdevel? | 12:34 |
| mithro | well, you have a C library which turns a string bytes a it's bits | 12:34 |
| Iwanowitch | Yeah, I registered previous month, but I suppose I've done something wrong. | 12:35 |
| mithro | nash: i got them, just no time to think about it really | 12:35 |
| nash | mithro: I have a C library which does what? | 12:36 |
| mithro | nash: s/C Library/a bunch of code/ | 12:36 |
| mithro | like a "printf" for TP structures? | 12:36 |
| nash | Do you mean tpe_util? | 12:37 |
| mithro | tpe_util_parse_packet: Parses a packet into the specified data pointers. | 12:38 |
| nash | Yes... Ugly function :-( | 12:38 |
| nash | From the code: | 12:38 |
| nash | * FIXME: Need a more general way of parsing complex structures (lists) | 12:38 |
| mithro | it would be nice if we could split that into a C library | 12:39 |
| mithro | because I spend a huge amount of time in my python "xstruct" module | 12:39 |
| nash | mithro: Right. | 12:39 |
| nash | Question is where... | 12:39 |
| nash | Ahh... C for speed, <higher level language> for sanity ;-) | 12:39 |
| nash | How much would you like split out? Current infrastructure has essentially 3 layers | 12:40 |
| nash | <event|msg|comm> at the lowest | 12:40 |
| nash | <seq> slightly on top | 12:40 |
| mithro | http://darcs.thousandparsec.net/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi?r=libtpproto-py;a=headblob;f=/tp/netlib/xstruct.py | 12:41 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/N:L> (at darcs.thousandparsec.net) | 12:41 |
| nash | then <obj,orders,resources,board,ship> | 12:41 |
| nash | Finally the GUI / AI objects are on top of them | 12:41 |
| mithro | I would only be intrested in structure packing/unpacking | 12:41 |
| nash | tpe_util basically | 12:42 |
| mithro | yeah | 12:42 |
| mithro | you see what the xstruct module does? | 12:42 |
| nash | And tpe_msg to flatten | 12:42 |
| nash | Yeah | 12:42 |
| * nash pokes mithro about aligned strings... this will help your performance too | 12:42 | |
| mithro | "IjII [II]" | 12:43 |
| mithro | thats how xstruct does lists | 12:43 |
| nash | Yeah - I don't have the full { } and [] support at this point. | 12:43 |
| nash | It's a bit annoying to do nicely portably | 12:43 |
| mithro | hrm... | 12:44 |
| nash | (And I'm only extracting) | 12:44 |
| mithro | i'm hugely impressed by your code :P | 12:44 |
| nash | Why is that? | 12:45 |
| * nash thinks it's fairly average | 12:45 | |
| mithro | nash: it seems pretty average :) | 12:46 |
| nash | heh | 12:47 |
| nash | mithro: Do you have performance profiles for xstruct? | 12:48 |
| mithro | I would also like to try and do as little copying as possible :P | 12:48 |
| mithro | nash: performance profiles? | 12:48 |
| nash | Avoiding clag is all good | 12:48 |
| mithro | IE there is no need to copy strings | 12:49 |
| nash | Ahh.. | 12:49 |
| mithro | (unless you want to store it somewhere) | 12:49 |
| Iwanowitch | okay, I re-enterered the tp-devel list, should be fine now... I hope. | 12:49 |
| nash | mithro: I don't know if you noticed... but I do heaps of copying. | 12:50 |
| mithro | nash: I know :P | 12:50 |
| nash | Hard to avoid if you want fast data access, and portability | 12:50 |
| nash | Also endian issues mean I need to copy of all arches where ntohl(x) != x | 12:51 |
| nash | x = htohl(y) has the same cost of x = htonl(x) | 12:51 |
| mithro | true | 12:52 |
| nash | mithro: But at the moment performance hasn't been an issue for me, so I couldn't be bothered hunting for things to improve | 12:53 |
| nash | And I didn't want to push the server by fragmenting packets and stuff like that | 12:53 |
| mithro | yeah I guess so | 12:54 |
| * nash had enough grief with the server | 12:54 | |
| mithro | anyway, so you would be cool with splitting that into a library? | 12:55 |
| nash | In principle, yes ;-) | 12:55 |
| * nash also wants to split out the other stuff, and have GUI and AIs loaded as modules ;-) | 12:56 | |
| nash | And then add a server module... | 12:56 |
| Epyon | ph33r the r3f4ct0r d3m0n! | 12:56 |
| nash | Catch is however, I need to a lot more to support what you want... | 12:56 |
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| nash | And I'm not sure how to do it neatly | 12:57 |
| mithro | I'm happy to work on it | 12:58 |
| mithro | I know C well enough | 12:58 |
| mithro | i will always have a pure python version of the stuff too however | 12:59 |
| nash | mithro: The other catch is this is the sort of code that gives people nightmares.. especially when I start doing ptrdiff_t and using int * to access strcture members | 12:59 |
| Iwanowitch | int*? is that 64-bit portable? :) | 13:00 |
| nash | s/int/uint32_t*/ then | 13:00 |
| * nash knows what he means | 13:00 | |
| mithro | :) | 13:01 |
| nash | Iwanowitch: One thing my code is not is 64 bit clean currently | 13:01 |
| nash | Actually my code is LLP64, probably LP64, probably not IP64 however | 13:02 |
| nash | It's on the todo list... I think | 13:03 |
| * nash checks | 13:03 | |
| Iwanowitch | Anyway, don't let my remark distract you from the discussion. | 13:03 |
| nash | Iwanowitch: Thats' cool | 13:04 |
| nash | You are welcome to take a look at the code if you like... I'm happy to accept patches to fix any bugs or anythign in the todo list | 13:04 |
| * nash adds 64 bit cleaness to the list | 13:04 | |
| mithro | anyway I should head to bed | 13:06 |
| nash | Okay | 13:06 |
| nash | mithro: Is there any other doco on xstruct, except the pythondoc there? | 13:06 |
| mithro | nope | 13:06 |
| mithro | xstruct is that single file | 13:07 |
| nash | C&F | 13:07 |
| mithro | C&F? | 13:08 |
| nash | Cool & Fruity | 13:09 |
| nash | urgh... generating images from the SVG source is slow... | 13:10 |
| nash | make clean is thus very expensive now | 13:10 |
| mithro | what are you using SVG for? | 13:11 |
| nash | For the original artwork? a) SVG is cool b) I convert to PNG, anyway c) My wife likes inkscape | 13:11 |
| nash | It also allows others to edit and change. | 13:12 |
| mithro | original artwork? | 13:12 |
| nash | Also being text, it means later I can manipulate the SVG source to change the art | 13:12 |
| nash | ya | 13:12 |
| mithro | what art work do you have? | 13:13 |
| nash | At this point various windows/popups, mail messages, an abstract spiral arm, a first draft planet... | 13:13 |
| mithro | welp heading to bed now | 13:14 |
| nash | night | 13:15 |
| Iwanowitch | Night | 13:15 |
| nash | Iwanowitch: Did you want to see the client? | 13:16 |
| Iwanowitch | See the client? How do you mean? | 13:17 |
| nash | As in look at the client source or even running | 13:19 |
| *** Ivn has joined #tp | 13:19 | |
| Ivn | wow... what a silence :o | 13:19 |
| Iwanowitch | nash: Fine for me, I've got not much to do anyway. | 13:20 |
| nash | Ivn: You broke it | 13:20 |
| Ivn | sorry :( | 13:20 |
| * nash is updating the webpage to be more useful | 13:20 | |
| Iwanowitch | nash: what platform is it on? | 13:20 |
| nash | Ivn: Chatting on IRC.. huh - what a concept | 13:21 |
| Ivn | so the webpage is more useful, or you feel more useful ? :P | 13:21 |
| Ivn | yeah.... long time no chatting | 13:21 |
| nash | Iwanowitch: You are about to tell me you are on windows aren't you? | 13:21 |
| nash | Ivn: Webpage | 13:21 |
| Iwanowitch | XD yeah, but I can reboot in Linux. | 13:21 |
| nash | Do you have enlightenment installed at all? | 13:21 |
| Iwanowitch | Erm, nope... Is it a big download? | 13:22 |
| Iwanowitch | And does it require a lot of time to set up? :P | 13:22 |
| nash | Not really, you only need some libraries these days | 13:22 |
| Ivn | depending on the distro, you might also have it to "apt-get"it or "yum"it | 13:23 |
| Iwanowitch | apt-get - using Kubuntu. | 13:23 |
| Iwanowitch | I'll be rebooting, see you in a minute. | 13:23 |
| Ivn | cya | 13:23 |
| *** Iwanowitch has quit IRC | 13:23 | |
| Ivn | *yawn*... i'll be setting up a tp server now..... and make it look like i'm "working" :X | 13:24 |
| Ivn | read ya | 13:24 |
| nash | Ivn: Which server? | 13:25 |
| Ivn | tpserver-cpp | 13:26 |
| nash | cool | 13:27 |
| nash | Platform? | 13:27 |
| Ivn | linuzzzz | 13:28 |
| Ivn | i'll be using a centos machine | 13:28 |
| nash | Wow - that is a compressed image | 13:28 |
| Ivn | ultra compressed | 13:28 |
| Ivn | xD | 13:28 |
| *** Iwanowitch has joined #tp | 13:28 | |
| Ivn | welcome back! | 13:28 |
| Iwanowitch | Thank you. | 13:28 |
| Ivn | kubuntized ? | 13:28 |
| Iwanowitch | Now, thinking about it, this IS amd64. | 13:28 |
| Ivn | eeeh my server will be too :D | 13:29 |
| nash | Iwanowitch: Cool, you can tell me if it works ;-) | 13:29 |
| Ivn | quad opteron server... proven to be fast | 13:29 |
| nash | http://tranquilly.nash.id.au/tp/ | 13:29 |
| Ivn | uh | 13:29 |
| Ivn | no server by that name ? | 13:29 |
| Iwanowitch | Uknown host? | 13:29 |
| Iwanowitch | (installing enlightenment now) | 13:30 |
| nash | tranquillity.nash.id.au | 13:31 |
| Iwanowitch | Other dependancies? | 13:31 |
| nash | Well not actually e, but evas, ecore, edje and imlib2 | 13:31 |
| nash | But e depends on them all ;-) | 13:31 |
| Iwanowitch | I'll get them, I suppose. | 13:31 |
| Ivn | that works | 13:31 |
| nash | list is on the page | 13:31 |
| nash | And sources if your distro doesn't have them | 13:32 |
| nash | Iwanowitch: Which version of E are you installing? | 13:32 |
| nash | If it is e16, stop | 13:32 |
| Iwanowitch | Probably an old version... Let me see... | 13:32 |
| Iwanowitch | 0.16 indeed. | 13:32 |
| Iwanowitch | Okay, then what do I need? :) | 13:32 |
| *** mithro has quit IRC | 13:33 | |
| nash | Got the webpage then? | 13:33 |
| nash | tranquillity.nash.id,au/tp/ | 13:33 |
| nash | Should have a few apt souce lines, and the packages you need | 13:34 |
| Iwanowitch | http://tranquillity.nash.id.au/tp/ | 13:34 |
| tpb | Title: Thousand Parsec E-Client Screenshots (at tranquillity.nash.id.au) | 13:34 |
| Iwanowitch | Let me see... | 13:34 |
| Ivn | mmmh | 13:34 |
| Ivn | tpserver-cpp has been testes on x86-64 ? | 13:35 |
| nash | Ivn: I believe so | 13:35 |
| Ivn | uhm.... | 13:35 |
| Ivn | checking for pthread_create in -lpthread... no | 13:38 |
| Ivn | configure: error: TP Server requires pthread library | 13:38 |
| nash | Iwanowitch: I just pushed to the git tree | 13:38 |
| brlcad | did someone propose zoomable maps? | 13:38 |
| nash | brlcad: ? | 13:39 |
| brlcad | or is someone working on that sort of feature? | 13:39 |
| Iwanowitch | E: Couldn't find package libevas0 | 13:39 |
| Iwanowitch | Hrmf. | 13:39 |
| nash | Add the dpkg sources, and do an apt-get update? | 13:39 |
| Iwanowitch | Did that. | 13:39 |
| nash | brlcad: All the clients can zoom | 13:39 |
| *** tpb changes topic to "Help us finish the game already! :) || http://www.thousandparsec.net/tp/rss.php || cpp-ser" | 13:39 | |
| tpb | ChanServ has joined on worldforge | 13:39 |
| tpb | mode change by purple.worldforge.org on worldforge: +o ChanServ | 13:39 |
| tpb | ChanServ has left on worldforge | 13:39 |
| Iwanowitch | Same message with both repositories. | 13:40 |
| brlcad | you know, your basic star map being able to zoom in/out to any level of detail | 13:40 |
| nash | apt-cache search evas | 13:40 |
| nash | brlcad: Yes | 13:40 |
| brlcad | nash: hm.. when I was testing the other day, I couldn't get it to zoom | 13:40 |
| Iwanowitch | Hmm... libevas1? | 13:40 |
| nash | Weird, zoom works for me... | 13:40 |
| brlcad | maybe something with pygame | 13:40 |
| Iwanowitch | What does the 0/1 signify? | 13:40 |
| nash | brlcad: Could well be | 13:40 |
| nash | Iwanowitch: Library version.. .someone must have bumped it | 13:41 |
| nash | weird | 13:41 |
| Iwanowitch | You think it'd work? | 13:41 |
| nash | Basically if API changes you should bump the number | 13:41 |
| nash | Iwanowitch: Yep it will | 13:41 |
| Iwanowitch | libedje0 and libevas1? Well, it doesn't hurt to try... | 13:42 |
| nash | It should be fine | 13:42 |
| nash | The numbers on each library are independant | 13:42 |
| nash | Iwanowitch: The version in git leaks Evas_Objects... | 13:45 |
| nash | Will hopefully fix tomorrow | 13:45 |
| Ivn | duh, libstdc++-devel missing, that's why i got a pthreads error. | 13:46 |
| Iwanowitch | nash: how do you use this cg-clone thing? I just installed Cogito but it complains about not doing the 'git+http' protocol. | 13:49 |
| nash | Drop the git+ of the URL and see what happens | 13:50 |
| nash | You may need webdav for that | 13:50 |
| Iwanowitch | Urgl. I seem to miss the most basic packages on this thing. | 13:50 |
| Iwanowitch | '/usr/bin/cg-fetch: line 145: curl: command not found' | 13:50 |
| brlcad | shame on you for not having curl installed | 13:51 |
| Ivn | xD | 13:51 |
| Iwanowitch | Yes, yes I know. | 13:51 |
| Iwanowitch | I even have it installed on Windows :P | 13:51 |
| nash | Iwanowitch: You should report a bug... cogito requires curl | 13:51 |
| nash | broken dependancy there | 13:51 |
| brlcad | "cogito"? heh... | 13:51 |
| Iwanowitch | True... Though, I'm using a pretty old distro here (dapper), I plan on updating when Feisty is released. | 13:52 |
| nash | My (current) git front end of choice | 13:52 |
| Iwanowitch | Not sure dapper is even maintained these days. | 13:52 |
| * nash uses debian... he wouldn't know | 13:53 | |
| Iwanowitch | It seems to be doing something now... | 13:53 |
| brlcad | yes.. just a pretty horrible name for any software if you speak certain dialects of spanish where that word.. means something rather different | 13:53 |
| nash | git means 'idiot' in english... so... | 13:53 |
| Ivn | what does "cogito" means on spanish ? | 13:53 |
| Ivn | or, because it seems like "coger" ? | 13:54 |
| brlcad | it's more akin to "a quickie" .. in not so polite terms | 13:54 |
| nash | LOL | 13:54 |
| nash | brilliant | 13:54 |
| Ivn | haha, that's more like a spanish slang tho | 13:54 |
| brlcad | it is slang, only means that in certain countries | 13:55 |
| Ivn | yep. | 13:55 |
| nash | brlcad: Cogito means "I think" in Latin, and is the root of 'cognition' in english | 13:55 |
| nash | So it's actually a cool name in english | 13:55 |
| Ivn | it sounds kinda childish xD | 13:56 |
| Iwanowitch | As in 'cogito ergo sum' - I think thus I am. | 13:56 |
| Iwanowitch | (Descartes, you know) | 13:56 |
| Ivn | i think about a "mojito" when i hear it | 13:56 |
| Ivn | (that's not so childish) | 13:56 |
| Iwanowitch | Mojito... Isn't that some sort of drink? | 13:56 |
| Ivn | yep | 13:56 |
| brlcad | coger.. to grab/take/f*ck depending on the slang .. "I copulate therefore I am" :) | 13:57 |
| Ivn | hahahaha | 13:57 |
| brlcad | probably more appropriately "my parent's copulated, therefore I am" :) | 13:57 |
| Iwanowitch | - Descartes, later that day | 13:57 |
| brlcad | blah s/'// | 13:58 |
| nash | Strangely his next phrase was "I'm not sure", and in a puff of logic he dissapeared | 13:58 |
| nash | Iwanowitch: how goes it? | 13:58 |
| nash | Also you will probably need inkscape ;-) | 13:58 |
| Iwanowitch | Downloading... My connection isn't that great over here. | 13:58 |
| nash | Else I can just give you the edj file | 13:58 |
| nash | My upload isn't fantastic either | 13:59 |
| Iwanowitch | I hope I don't run out of bandwith, because that'll be the end... I've been running low these days. | 13:59 |
| Iwanowitch | Ah, got it. | 13:59 |
| Iwanowitch | I'm currently getting build-essentials (yeah, yeah), so just a minute... | 14:00 |
| Ivn | finally! compilling .... | 14:01 |
| Ivn | i think i put an adittional l in compiling.. | 14:01 |
| Iwanowitch | Right, the -dev packages. | 14:03 |
| Iwanowitch | Another 11 MB... Pampam | 14:04 |
| Iwanowitch | Hmm, this is going slow... bad sign... | 14:07 |
| Iwanowitch | Ahahahah... I'm out of bandwith :/ | 14:09 |
| Iwanowitch | Which means I'm on... Hmm... 2 kb/s now. | 14:09 |
| Iwanowitch | Perhaps even less. | 14:09 |
| Ivn | wow. | 14:10 |
| Ivn | Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault. | 14:10 |
| Ivn | [Switching to Thread 182896478336 (LWP 4392)] | 14:10 |
| Ivn | 0x0000002a98775af4 in scm_lfwrite () from /usr/lib64/libguile.so.12 | 14:10 |
| Iwanowitch | Okay. This evening, I'm going home, where I have a bit more bandwith. Will try again there. | 14:11 |
| Iwanowitch | Though, no amd64 there. | 14:11 |
| Iwanowitch | For that, you'll have to wait a couple of weeks. | 14:11 |
| nash | Iwanowitch: okay | 14:11 |
| nash | Anyway - time for bed for me. | 14:11 |
| nash | I'll talk to you later. | 14:11 |
| Ivn | where are you, and what time is over there ? | 14:11 |
| Iwanowitch | Okay, bye. | 14:11 |
| nash | Sydney, it is 12:15, | 14:12 |
| nash | And I need need to leave for work at 7am | 14:12 |
| Ivn | wow, better get some sleep. | 14:12 |
| Ivn | here it is 10:13 (am) (Chile) | 14:12 |
| nash | Okay, talk to you later. | 14:13 |
| Ivn | cya1 | 14:13 |
| nash | About 6pm your time maybe ;-) | 14:13 |
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| Ivn | now, back to my segfault ! | 14:14 |
| Iwanowitch | I'm going back to Windows... Being without any bandwith AND without any installed packages is not really fun :) | 14:26 |
| Iwanowitch | brb | 14:26 |
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| Ivn | windowized yet? | 14:31 |
| Iwanowitch | Yep. | 14:31 |
| Ivn | yiei..... | 14:35 |
| Ivn | tpserver-cpp does not run with guile < 1.6.7 | 14:35 |
| * Ivn playing minisec | 15:22 | |
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| * clayasaurus is very busy with school | 16:02 | |
| Ivn | school and irc are higly incompatible | 16:14 |
| Ivn | i know for a fact :X | 16:14 |
| clayasaurus | : ) | 16:22 |
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| Iwanowitch | I'm leaving. I might be back later, not sure. | 16:39 |
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| Ivn | that's what the red button does ! | 17:18 |
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| llnz2 | morning all | 19:24 |
| brlcad | howdy | 19:42 |
| Ivn | morning (over there i guess) | 19:43 |
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| daxxar | Evening. :) | 20:16 |
| fizzleboink | afternoon | 20:20 |
| cherez | morning? | 20:27 |
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| Epyon | Any new info on slotcount? | 21:12 |
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| MihailBalan | when is slotcount due? :D | 21:29 |
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| Epyon | 26 hours | 21:32 |
| brlcad | if they're on time | 21:45 |
| brlcad | which they haven't been on any of the deadlines except for mentorship submission | 21:45 |
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| * nash waves | 22:56 | |
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| nash | hey cherez | 23:18 |
| cherez | hey nash | 23:18 |
| nash | how is life | 23:18 |
| cherez | well, I successfully ran away from home | 23:19 |
| nash | You okay? | 23:19 |
| cherez | yep | 23:25 |
| cherez | went a lot more easily than I thought | 23:25 |
| cherez | have some stuff I still need to sort out | 23:25 |
| cherez | how do I make a patch with darcs? | 23:25 |
| nash | good to know | 23:26 |
| cherez | I have a patch that fixes some import errors with the pywx client | 23:26 |
| cherez | but it is having issues connecting... | 23:26 |
| cherez | either both demo servers are down or I'm getting firewalled... | 23:27 |
| nash | Both could be possible | 23:28 |
| cherez | the campus firewall blocks incoming TCP and incoming UDP below port 1024 | 23:28 |
| cherez | does the client require either of those? | 23:28 |
| nash | Try the server at tranquillity.nash.id.au | 23:28 |
| nash | No | 23:29 |
| nash | Strange firewall rules | 23:29 |
| cherez | oh, that did work | 23:29 |
| cherez | I'm not sure why they follow those rules | 23:29 |
| cherez | I guess they want to block everything except most games | 23:29 |
| cherez | which usually use a pretty high UDP port | 23:29 |
| cherez | I put together a tunnel to let me host stuff from within the network | 23:30 |
| nash | Well not quite... 1024 and below are the priveledged ports in unix. | 23:30 |
| nash | So below 1024 the process has to be running as root on a standard unix box | 23:30 |
| cherez | right | 23:31 |
| cherez | but most Unix servers don't use UDP | 23:31 |
| nash | Of course that firewall rules just means secure portocols like ssh now have to connect to an insecure port against an untrustable process | 23:31 |
| nash | Umm.. what? Unix uses UDP quite happily. Most protocols don't | 23:31 |
| cherez | I mean most server daemons use TCP | 23:32 |
| cherez | which is probably what someone would be hosting on those ports | 23:32 |
| nash | Yes, most _protocols_ require TCP | 23:32 |
| jotham | in theory a well tuned tcp stack will perform as well as a udp session | 23:32 |
| jotham | but in reality it ain't so | 23:32 |
| jotham | usually tcp is used for the handshaking and udp for the message in games and video | 23:33 |
| jotham | but that's only where twitch is important | 23:33 |
| jotham | i don't see that being nessasary in a turn based environment | 23:33 |
| * nash notes video should use UDP-Lite | 23:33 | |
| nash | So should games as well in many cases | 23:33 |
| jotham | i do not know UDP-Lite | 23:34 |
| cherez | UDP-Lite? | 23:34 |
| nash | UDP requires the whole packet be checksummed, and if teh checksum fails the packet is dropped | 23:35 |
| nash | Most (good) network streaming protocols have error correction, so cna handle a few wrong bits | 23:35 |
| nash | So UDP-Lite allows only part of the packet to be checksummed. | 23:35 |
| jotham | cool | 23:35 |
| jotham | that sounds sensible | 23:35 |
| nash | So the header (required), and normally a protocol header, with some extra data. | 23:36 |
| nash | Yes | 23:36 |
| nash | Anyway - irrelevant for TP, and the ban all ports below 1024 is a stupid policy as it prevents access to trusted services. | 23:36 |
| cherez | right | 23:36 |
| cherez | TCP is blocked entirely | 23:37 |
| cherez | I've made workarounds, but it's dumb to force us to circumvent their security policy | 23:37 |
| jotham | does each campus machine have a public ip? | 23:37 |
| nash | Oh right.. I thought it was TCP below 1024.. | 23:38 |
| jotham | because it could just be that you have a private subnet | 23:38 |
| jotham | and it is NATd rather than bridged | 23:38 |
| nash | cherez: So you have a TCP to UDP proxy | 23:38 |
| jotham | i.e. not an intentional block | 23:38 |
| * nash notes you can connect to a lot of windows machines as MS is too stupid to realise UDP != TCP | 23:38 | |
| cherez | I asked IT, it's the whole campu | 23:38 |
| cherez | s | 23:38 |
| cherez | and each student does have a private IP address | 23:39 |
| cherez | nash: I actually set up a more general firewall bypasser | 23:40 |
| cherez | I run a daemon on my other server that listens for my tunneler, and forwards new connections to the tunnel | 23:40 |
| cherez | the tunnel runs from my machine and forwards connections to the specified port on my machine | 23:41 |
| cherez | so it all exists on an outgoing connection from the firewall's point of view | 23:41 |
| jotham | ssh port forwarding? | 23:42 |
| jotham | i did that for my friend who is in a uni campus also | 23:42 |
| jotham | his incomming server data goes via my domain/connection to him | 23:43 |
| jotham | over an ssh port forward | 23:43 |
| jotham | well reverse forward in this case | 23:43 |
| cherez | I could try that too, I'd have to read up on it more | 23:44 |
| cherez | how should I submit this patch? | 23:48 |
| jotham | darcs push | 23:48 |
| jotham | let me find my notes | 23:49 |
| jotham | (i'm new to darcs too :p) | 23:49 |
| cherez | darcs: Pushing to http URLs is not supported. | 23:49 |
| cherez | You may be able to hack this to work using DARCS_APPLY_HTTP | 23:49 |
| jotham | for me i use darcs push darcs.thousandparsec.net:/var/lib/darcs/repos/battleviewer | 23:49 |
| jotham | where the path at the end is whatever mithro gave you | 23:49 |
| jotham | it does it with scp, so you will want to setup ssh agent and have exchanged an ssh key with mithro for it | 23:50 |
| cherez | this is a patch for the pywx client I just put together because it gives import errors on some systems | 23:50 |
| jotham | i have a bash script for ssh agent that you may find useful once you are ready | 23:50 |
| nash | cherez: Make a patch and send it to the mailing list | 23:51 |
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