Monday, 2007-03-26

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JLP	Porthos_: ah found it	00:07
Porthos_	Sorry for making you search, I was making dinner	00:09
JLP	no problem	00:09
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DystopicFro	mithro: I updated my app, thanks for your comments, I was thinking about getting a script together to import the current state of mtsec into the prototype tonight	01:25
mithro	DystopicFro: cool	01:26
mithro	nash: ping?	01:26
nash	mithro: pong	01:27
nash	mithro: You need to put up submission guidelines for teh AI comp	01:27
nash	I assume you'll need some doco ;-)	01:27
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cherez	how are we doing on apps?	02:09
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cherez	'lo, mithro	02:14
nash	cherez: We are rolling in apps ;-) Which is good. And there are a number of good ones	02:16
nash	It's going to be very very hard to pick	02:18
nash	You'll be happy to know IRC activity is a positive influence	02:18
cherez	woohoo	02:18
cherez	I have been traveling all day, I just now got home	02:19
cherez	so, how many are we up to?	02:19
nash	Passed 30	02:22
cherez	sweet	02:23
cherez	come on 34	02:23
mithro	33	02:23
cherez	yes, now to ensure only 1 more comes and I win the the bet	02:24
nash	cherez: Maybe you shoudl cheat ;-)	02:25
cherez	add 1 more then DoS Google?	02:26
xdotx	o_O gl with that	02:26
xdotx	and hi all	02:27
dmpayton	lol, what did you bet cherez?	02:27
cherez	whoever guesses closest to the number of apps gets automatically accepted	02:27
cherez	I guessed 34	02:27
xdotx	lol, then I guess 35	02:28
cherez	crap, I need to DoS it fast, then	02:29
cherez	can't be too hard, how much bandwidth could Google have?	02:29
xdotx	heh, you might need to get a couple friends :P	02:30
xdotx	weren't they collecting dark fiber a while ago?	02:30
cherez	dark fiber?	02:34
* nash notes the google SoC page is quite slow		02:35
cherez	just have to hax0r a couple more ISPs and I've got this pool!	02:35
xdotx	heheh	02:36
nash	Shall be back in an hour or so... lunch time	02:43
mithro	not much of a last minute rush :/	04:11
cherez	still... 3 hours left?	04:16
mithro	still quite a few hours	04:16
mithro	within the last 24 hours however I think	04:16
cherez	it's 9:20 pacific right now	04:17
xdotx	ah, that's right. is it midnight tonight, or midnight tomorrow?	04:17
xdotx	cherez: "Google Error Server Error The server encountered a temporary error and could not complete your request."	04:22
cherez	strange	04:22
cherez	was that in submitting?	04:22
xdotx	nah. but about that DoS....	04:23
mithro	xdotx: thats been happening all week :P	04:23
xdotx	mithro: heh, good :)	04:23
xdotx	er, well. sort of	04:23
mithro	xdotx: it's likely when you submitted it actually submitted	04:24
mithro	where you updateing your application?	04:24
xdotx	ah. it's 17:00 tomorrow for the deadline	04:25
xdotx	mithro: not yet, been working on it all day today	04:25
mithro	xdotx: a new application or updating an old one?	04:27
mithro	or something totally not for tp? :P	04:27
xdotx	mithro: on the TP app!	04:27
mithro	xdotx: ?	04:28
xdotx	well, on and off.	04:28
xdotx	er, updating that is	04:28
xdotx	mithro: I'd like to submit multiple applications but I've got _no_ time during the school year	04:29
xdotx	mithro: it's a struggle to eat, sleep and go to school. fun things like writing applications have to be squeezed in... i can't wait for summer	04:31
mithro	xdotx: thats okay, i'm still a student so I know how that feels :P	04:31
cherez	no kidding	04:32
cherez	I'm on spring break so maybe I'll have time to do something, when I'm not doing homework	04:32
xdotx	my spring break was in the middle of my midterm exams and so half the time was spent recovering from the first midterms, and the later half was preparing for the next ones :P	04:33
cherez	wow, that is evil	04:33
xdotx	yeah, seriously.	04:34
cherez	I have an 8 page report to write, and I'm not sure what it's supposed to be about	04:38
jotham	new spaceships tonight i hope mithro =o	04:51
cherez	what?	04:51
jotham	oh just some new programmer graphics	04:51
jotham	cause i need them to be able to rotate	04:52
cherez	ahhh	04:54
mithro	jotham: cool :P	04:54
Epyon	jotham, you're a gsocer, or a tp programmer?	05:30
jotham	tp	05:30
Epyon	can I see the sample of those graphics? :)	05:30
jotham	when i make them, sure	05:31
jotham	don't expect much	05:31
Epyon	jotham, because if you'd make a list of graphics needed, I might give them shot, as long as I'll be free to use them in my own non-GPLed projects :)	05:31
jotham	this was my last crack at a spaceship, so be wary :p http://radiosaurus.sporkism.org/OrbitalCopter-004-3.jpg	05:31
tpb	<http://ln-s.net/LDM> (at radiosaurus.sporkism.org)	05:32
jotham	naah i'm ok making my own for this exercise	05:32
jotham	but thanks for the offer	05:32
Epyon	np ;]	05:32
Epyon	jotham, what do you work with?	05:32
jotham	cinema4D	05:32
jotham	german program	05:33
Epyon	ah, heard about it, but never used it.	05:33
* Epyon is a 3ds max addict		05:33
jotham	i have to program plugins for it at work	05:33
nash	Epyon: If you want to do ship designs, my client could yse them ;-)	05:33
jotham	that's why i am familiar with it	05:33
Epyon	nash, up to date I only did starfighter scale ships, and somehow I'm eager to take a look at doing capitals ;]	05:34
Epyon	but you'd need a list of needed ships.	05:34
nash	Epyon: How would you like the list?	05:34
nash	Essentially min is the ships needed for minisec... Scout, Frigate, Destroyer... A friendly and at least one non-friendly version of each	05:35
Epyon	nash, and I must immidately admit that my designs usualy are more "typical" then what that jotham does :)	05:35
Epyon	nash, where can I find a list of minisec ships?	05:35
nash	That was it above	05:36
nash	All 3 ;-)	05:36
jotham	aye, i'm an admitted fruitcake =\	05:36
nash	jotham: Are yours up on a site somewhere?	05:36
cherez	Epyon: scout, frigate, battleship	05:36
jotham	no i haven't made any, i just made a passing comment to mithro about making some temporary ones tonight	05:37
cherez	there's your list	05:37
nash	Right	05:37
jotham	something else i recently made http://radiosaurus.sporkism.org/Crawling-06.jpg	05:37
nash	Epyon: However to indicate race I'd like to have a patch I can colour code.	05:37
jotham	but not quite a spaceship	05:37
nash	So if you have a mask I can use evas_object_color_set() to colour it appropriately to the race	05:37
nash	(So basically normal image + mask where I set teh colour for different races) would be great	05:38
nash	Cool	05:38
nash	The mask can/should have a full alpha channel	05:38
nash	And mithro: You still haven't put up the submission details for the AI comp	05:38
jotham	so tehy are 8bit colors, or many bit with a key color for racial color coding?	05:38
Epyon	nash, I've sent you my question on private ;]	05:39
nash	Epyon: Haven't seen it yet	05:39
jotham	Epyon: you need to be identified with nickserv to message on this network	05:39
jotham	nickserv/chanserv	05:39
nash	jotham: It's a 8 bit mask essentially - A white mask is easiest	05:39
jotham	cool	05:40
Epyon	nash:	05:40
Epyon	<Epyon> you want static images right?	05:40
Epyon	<Epyon> if so, then how big images, so I know what detail level to do them with.	05:40
nash	So essentially the engine just does a multuply on the mask by the colour, and then blends it on top	05:40
nash	Static for now.	05:40
nash	I need to to get them integrated by the end of the week ;-)	05:40
Epyon	what will be the target image resolution?	05:40
nash	Small - I'll use them on the map itself + the ship view.	05:41
nash	Largest will be 64x64 I'd image	05:41
Epyon	Kay.	05:41
nash	Also backgrounds transparent would be ideal (use 32 bit RGBA pngs ideally)	05:41
Epyon	8 bit alpha channel is ok?	05:42
nash	8 bit alpha channel is perfect	05:44
nash	Epyon: The evas engine fully supports alpha channels	05:44
Epyon	nash, say just how big (approx) you imagine those ships (in meters)	05:47
Epyon	nash, each of them.	05:47
nash	20, 100, 300	05:48
nash	How is that?	05:48
Epyon	First is fighter scale, second corvette scale, and the last is frigatte scale xD	05:48
Epyon	Good :D	05:48
nash	Heh ;-)	05:48
Epyon	Ok, I'll take a look :)	05:49
nash	Scout I'd imagine is just a lot of cameras on an engine	05:49
nash	And they need to render to about the same size however - they just need to 'look' smaller/larger - so scout needs to be small and unthreatening	05:49
nash	Frigate well.. a frigate	05:50
jotham	hello kitty stickers on it	05:50
jotham	(the scout)	05:50
nash	And a destroyer, something big and nasty	05:50
nash	jotham: Works for me	05:50
mithro	nash: hrm - the submissions arn't due till 31st?	05:51
nash	mithro: I know - but if you put up "must include 200 page treatise on development of AI in human society..." it would be nice to know	05:52
Epyon	nash, kay, kay	05:52
nash	Epyon: ;-)	05:52
mithro	it's a battleship guys!	05:52
nash	Meh... same diff	05:52
nash	Smith ignores them anyway	05:53
Epyon	nash, I'll go for something sphere based for the scout, something assymetrical for the frigate, and blocky/symmetrical for the bship..	05:53
nash	okay	05:53
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mithro	nash: remeber fleets can have more then one ship :P	06:13
nash	mithro: I know	06:13
mithro	how you going to handle that?	06:13
nash	Just need some basic representation for starters	06:13
nash	mithro: I've got a few things to try to see how it goes...	06:13
mithro	cool	06:14
nash	Worst comes to worse.. I'll use the stars hack - a + in the corner to indicate more ships ;-)	06:18
mithro	yeah	06:22
nash	Epyon: If you want to give me smaller versions as well - if it is easy.	06:26
nash	Else i can scale easily	06:26
mithro	nash: we should have done a release on freshmeat during the SoC	06:26
nash	Heh - indeed	06:27
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Epyon	nash?	06:34
Epyon	you're here?	06:34
nash	I am indeed	06:35
Epyon	http://chaosforge.org/files/tp_scout_01.png	06:35
nash	Cool	06:35
Epyon	basic shape only, no textures	06:35
nash	That's fine for now - it will be fairly small	06:35
nash	Have a mask for colours etc ?	06:35
Epyon	at 64x64 size I think it would be easier to just render with seperate colors :P	06:36
nash	Epyon: But then I need the colours before hand	06:36
nash	This way the colours can be chosen at run time	06:37
Epyon	Hmm, I think I'll find a solution.	06:37
Epyon	Let's say that all of the ships will be grayscale, with the "coloured" parts painted with some realy intensive color. Then I'll "seperate" this color into a separate grayscale image in photoshop.	06:38
nash	Yep - use white as the intense colour ;-)	06:39
nash	Or maybe green to be traditional	06:39
Epyon	nash, so masking like these parts http://chaosforge.org/files/tp_scout_02.png... we'd get ships like this (with green) http://chaosforge.org/files/tp_scout_03.png	06:45
Epyon	That's the intended outcome?	06:45
Epyon	(I'll prepare the mask, no worries)	06:46
nash	Yeah - although, I think your mask has a bit too much alpha in it	06:46
Epyon	this isn't the mask ;]	06:46
nash	I know - just the colour is a little darker in the masked one	06:47
Epyon	this would be the mask... http://chaosforge.org/files/tp_scout_04.png	06:50
nash	Yep - perfect	06:50
Epyon	(luckily I don	06:50
* nash will colour it white - but that is easy		06:50
Epyon	't even need photoshop)	06:50
nash	And of course the black will be transparent I assume?	06:50
nash	Cool	06:51
Epyon	It's a 256 grayscale PNG	06:51
Epyon	so black = transparent, the more white the more color.	06:51
nash	Yep	06:52
Epyon	The final files I'll render to 64x64, I guess those will be most useful to you, right?	06:52
nash	Yep - perfect	06:52
Epyon	Okay, but first I'll do the models.	06:52
nash	Cool	06:53
nash	Well the scout is cool	06:53
nash	Reminds me a little of a B-wing	06:53
Epyon	Yeah, it's something between a b-wing and a tie fighter :P	06:54
Epyon	To be honest, I consider old starwars as a masterpiece in design, especialy the imperial craft.	06:55
nash	They varied, but there was some damn good design	06:55
Epyon	Like lambda shuttle or the VSD...	06:56
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mithro	wb cherez	07:05
cherez	thanks	07:10
cherez	I thought I'd go to sleep, then after an hour I thought I'd come back	07:11
cherez	so it seems the deadline is the end of March 26th	07:11
xdotx	5pm	07:11
xdotx	pacific of course	07:11
cherez	oh, 5 pm?	07:11
xdotx	mhmm	07:12
cherez	guess I should have read the rules	07:12
mithro	[16:50] <Anya> 16 hours, 44 minutes, 18 seconds to the SoC student deadline.	07:17
mithro	from #summer-discuss on slashnet	07:17
cherez	it ends at 5:34 your time?	07:25
cherez	that's an odd minute to end on...	07:25
nash	mithro is really lagged	07:25
mithro	yes - or Anya's clock is wrong	07:26
nash	mithro: And you haven't updated the web site yet	07:26
mithro	opps, I forgot to say yes to the push	07:27
CIA-17	[email protected] * web/google-summer-of-code-2007.php : Added the extra mentors.	07:28
mithro	nash: your on our sourceforge page now	07:29
nash	cool	07:30
mithro	jotham: you have a sf account?	07:32
nash	Epyon: How does the other 2 ships go?	07:32
jotham	uh yes	07:35
jotham	let me look	07:35
jotham	made one the other day	07:35
* mithro is lagged by about 30 seconds		07:37
Epyon	nash, I'm currently working on the frigate. I have a sketch, but I don't know how it will look as a model ;]	07:37
Epyon	I might have overdone with the assymetrics :P	07:38
xdotx	alright, i was determined to find it all on my own, but if i'm looking for a complete example of a ruleset, where do i look?	07:39
mithro	xdotx: which server?	07:39
xdotx	i'm looking in the cpp server	07:39
mithro	try the modules/games/minisec for tpserver-cpp	07:39
xdotx	in modules/games	07:39
mithro	there should be a minisec directory	07:40
xdotx	been looking at that, but can't help but feel like i'm missing something	07:40
mithro	xdotx: i think your probably missing what hasn't been written yet :P	07:40
xdotx	heheh	07:40
mithro	xdotx: did you try the mtsec one too?	07:41
mithro	thats a little bit more advanced	07:41
xdotx	mithro: yep, looked at them both	07:42
mithro	xdotx: what are you actually looking for?	07:42
xdotx	mithro: i was considering adding to my proposal: writing a document that provides some better insight to writing a ruleset, as i haven't found anything like that	07:42
mithro	xdotx: that was kinda expected :P	07:42
xdotx	mithro: heheh, good	07:43
cherez	like a ruleset writing tutorial?	07:46
nash	Epyon: Cool	07:46
xdotx	cherez: yeah. i was thinking it be like a tutorial with small examples, tips, tricks, etc	07:47
mithro	cherez: yeah, the python server needs one too - but it's a little clearer	07:47
cherez	I have that in my application, I believe	07:48
mithro	it's not as exciting when you arn't getting new applications :P	07:49
cherez	I don't think I'd have time to write a good one tomorrow	07:50
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jotham	i'm not much of a spaceship artist	08:07
jotham	probe -> http://imagebin.org/7831	08:09
tpb	Title: Imagebin - A place to slap up your images. (at imagebin.org)	08:09
daxxar	Wow, this is one of the best parts about flatmates.	08:10
* daxxar woke up to waffles and fresh coffee.		08:11
nash	jotham: Doesn't look to bad to me	08:12
jotham	i know favour primative geometric shapes which lots of people dislike	08:13
mithro	jotham: what was your sf account again?	08:13
nash	Needs a few more polygons the tubes - but at a smaller size it's cool ;-)	08:13
jotham	just trying an isometric render	08:13
jotham	heh i intentionally made everything really chunky	08:13
jotham	i'll figure that out mithro	08:13
daxxar	mithro: What's the total count up to now? :)	08:15
jotham	mithro: 'jotham'	08:15
jotham	id 1558824 <- newschool	08:16
mithro	daxxar: only 33	08:16
mithro	jotham: sssh, they'll discover we have been talking in a private channel! ;)	08:16
daxxar	mithro: Isn't that quite respectable? :)	08:17
mithro	daxxar: well it hasn't gone up in the last 12 or so hours	08:17
* jotham runs a hypernurbs over it for nash		08:18
daxxar	mithro: Ah. :-)	08:18
nash	jotham: waiting for image...	08:18
daxxar	I'd add another one to the toll, if there were any other ideas I'd been passionate enough to fight hordes of applicants over. ;-)	08:19
daxxar	The protocol testing looks neat, but I can't think of any ingenious way of making a testing suite for libraries that's language-independent. :)	08:22
daxxar	The 'best' way I can think of would be requiring each library to make an executable that works on STDIN/STDOUT to generate the data, or a naïve client that connects to a fake server.	08:23
daxxar	But both approaches require additional code in the protocol libraries, and both (especially the latter) increase the odds of bugs in other places than the actual protocol library.	08:24
daxxar	Meh.	08:24
jotham	nash http://imagebin.org/7832	08:24
tpb	Title: Imagebin - A place to slap up your images. (at imagebin.org)	08:24
jotham	that's in isometric	08:24
jotham	it's pretty dark here, my lighting leaves something to be desired	08:25
nash	jotham: That's cool ;-)	08:25
jotham	chur	08:25
mithro	jotham: your on our sf page now :P	08:27
jotham	chur	08:27
mithro	jotham: why does an un-maned probe have windows?	08:28
jotham	who says they are windows	08:28
jotham	i was thinking collectors of some kind	08:28
jotham	that's just the generic team color also	08:29
nash	I can answer that one... Because it looks better ;-)	08:29
jotham	yeah there is that too	08:29
cherez	wow... StumbleUpon is good	08:32
jotham	yeah	08:32
cherez	I just looked at the suggested friends feature	08:32
cherez	one of them is a friend of mine	08:32
jotham	heh, yeah that's like last.fm has one of my friends as my nearest neighbour in terms of music taste	08:33
jotham	total chance	08:33
jotham	internets a big place	08:33
daxxar	Does tpsai-py work? :)	08:33
daxxar	hmm, seems to work, but requires you to run it for each turn or something? :-)	08:35
mithro	daxxar: it doesn't issue any orders	08:35
daxxar	Ah, yes, it only prints the suggested orders+	08:35
daxxar	?	08:35
mithro	it just connects downloads the universe and quits :P	08:35
mithro	doesn't even suggest orders yet	08:36
daxxar	Hm, okay, prints evaluation of the 'game field'?	08:36
mithro	daxxar: not quite sure :P	08:36
daxxar	Seems atleast to assign priorities to various items (threats, neutral assets, etc) based on how close they are to you and how close you are to it (respectively), then just print the map. :)	08:37
daxxar	But I don't know python, so I could be wrong ;)	08:37
mithro	long time since I touched it	08:38
daxxar	You're the author?	08:38
jotham	mithro could you look at that weaponpoint thing when you have some time	08:39
mithro	jotham: still at uni	08:40
mithro	daxxar: yeah :P	08:40
daxxar	does PKG_CHECK_MODULES use the same info as pkg-config?	08:40
mithro	if it's python, i've probably had something to do with it :P	08:41
daxxar	Ah, ok :)	08:41
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nash	Anyway - I'm heading home now...	08:45
nash	I'll talk you all later	08:45
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daxxar	Variable 'LIBGNUTLS_LIBS' not defined in '/usr/local/lib/pkgconfig/libtpproto.pc'	08:51
daxxar	Hrm	08:51
daxxar	Output from pkg-config --list-all after installing libtpproto-cpp from darcs	08:51
daxxar	llnz: Any suggestions?	08:52
daxxar	llnz: Should I be using 0.1.0 instead of darcs?	08:52
llnz	humm....	08:53
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DystopicFro	grumble grumble _num-components property defined in minisec but not mtsec grumble grumble	08:54
mithro	llnz: no new applications, still sitting at 33 :/	08:55
llnz	daxxar: i'm looking into it	08:59
daxxar	llnz: Okay. :)	08:59
llnz	DystopicFro: not a problem to add it	08:59
llnz	DystopicFro: but the properties and components haven't been worked out for mtsec in tpserver-cpp yet	09:01
DystopicFro	llnz: very true, but the lack thereof caused problems when I scraped all of the Properties and Components from MTSec into my Ruleset Dev Env.	09:01
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niphree	hi	09:02
DystopicFro	so, I just had to delete the dummy prop file that got generated and remove the reference from the scout ship	09:02
DystopicFro	I just really like the format of that code...	09:02
DystopicFro	and it's easy to scrape with a perl script	09:02
DystopicFro	where minisec is less structured	09:02
llnz	true	09:04
CIA-17	Lee Begg <[email protected]> * libtpproto-cpp/libtpproto.pc.in :	09:05
CIA-17	Better libtpproto.pc.in file:	09:05
CIA-17	Hopefully fixes daxxar's issue	09:05
llnz	DystopicFro: because mtsec is a much larger game, it has to be more structured	09:05
DystopicFro	niphree: ahoyhoy >.<	09:05
daxxar	\o/	09:05
daxxar	I feel speshul.	09:05
DystopicFro	aye, but just from the perspective of a ruleset editor...that structure there is good to follow in generating code...a class to generate Properties, a class to generate Components, it's Property with a function to be called, etc	09:06
llnz	cool, that would be very good (and is what i would do)	09:07
DystopicFro	that's the general thought if I'm able to follow up on my ruleset dev idea, it makes the generation of properties, components and designs almost trivial	09:08
DystopicFro	the kicker is in getting a good tool to edit the TPCL code	09:08
DystopicFro	but I've got some ideas for that as well	09:08
daxxar	hmm. still whining about no -lgnutls when I do pkg-config --list-all, though it is installed using aptitude. Let me see if I can figure out why there is no .pc for it. :)	09:14
daxxar	Package -lgnutls was not found in the pkg-config search path.	09:14
daxxar	Perhaps you should add the directory containing `-lgnutls.pc'	09:14
daxxar	Hmm, seems something about the new .pc is a bit borked? :)	09:15
daxxar	Or -- what do I need to get it to recreate the libtpproto.pc from the .in?	09:15
* daxxar does a clean build w/ autogen and configure.		09:16
llnz	daxxar: humm....	09:19
daxxar	No, still looks for -lgnutls.pc, llnz :)	09:19
llnz	odd	09:19
* llnz looks for docs on pkg-config		09:20
tpb	aloril has quit worldforge (Remote host closed the connection)	09:25
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DystopicFro	mithro: one of your comments asked if it would be possible to import existing rulesets into my editor...and I'm happy to say that with a little Perl anything is possible	09:32
DystopicFro	http://www1.pacific.edu/~j-gardn1/tp/ruleset_dev_env.html to see the editor with the current state of MTSec loaded in it	09:32
tpb	<http://ln-s.net/LGV> (at www1.pacific.edu)	09:32
mithro	DystopicFro: cool	09:35
* llnz has problems loading that page		09:36
* mithro loaded it fine - which is a bit strange :P		09:37
DystopicFro	byah, foolish school webspace	09:37
DystopicFro	ah well, off to sleep I go, g'day all	09:38
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xdotx	updated my app	09:46
xdotx	(about time, i know)	09:47
CIA-17	Lee Begg <[email protected]> * libtpproto-cpp/libtpproto.pc.in :	09:48
CIA-17	Another attempt to fix daxxar's issue:	09:48
CIA-17	Appears that it doesn't need that line at all	09:48
llnz	cool	09:49
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* nash waves		09:51
llnz	hi nash	09:51
nash	heyo	09:52
nash	oh... another application	09:52
xdotx	annnnd it's bed time. see ya guys	09:53
llnz	cya xdotx	09:53
nash	night	09:55
tpb	aloril has quit worldforge (Remote host closed the connection)	10:01
mithro	ooo - 35!	10:04
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Epyon	nash?	10:08
nash	Epyon: ?	10:08
Epyon	http://chaosforge.org/files/tp_frigate_04.png	10:08
Epyon	lol	10:09
Epyon	I just noticed that this one's also bwingish...	10:09
nash	But quite imperial as well	10:09
Epyon	I wanted something nicely assymetrical, but I might have overdone it :P	10:10
nash	nah, it's cool	10:10
nash	How does it look at 128x128 or smaller?	10:10
Epyon	http://chaosforge.org/files/tp_frigate_02.png -- previous version	10:10
Epyon	better ;]	10:10
nash	Epyon: I already looked ;-)	10:10
Epyon	It was made having 128/64 in mind -- if it would be higher, then more details should be added	10:11
Epyon	nash, you're the inquisitive type :P	10:11
nash	Yes	10:11
Epyon	I guess I'll try the battleship now.	10:12
nash	Cool	10:12
Epyon	this is fun ^^	10:12
Epyon	not to mention that it's "reseach" :P	10:13
nash	heh	10:13
nash	So can you get the general ship gen to count as research?	10:13
Epyon	yup	10:13
nash	Sweet.	10:14
Epyon	And while doing those by hand, I wonder how would the computer do it :P	10:14
* mithro doesn't like the head :P		10:15
Epyon	The greatest problem is "bool GeneratedModel::isEsthetical()" :P	10:15
Epyon	mithro, yeah neither do I. I might remodel it	10:15
nash	Epyon: Thats why you gen multiple, and let people pick ;-)	10:15
Epyon	mithro, any suggestion for improvement?	10:16
nash	Looks cool when smaller I think	10:19
nash	At 80x80 it looks fine	10:19
mithro	well, heading home now	10:32
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nash	bbs	10:42
daxxar	Worked great now, llnz :)	10:42
llnz	cool	10:42
llnz	thanks for pointing out that there was a problem	10:43
daxxar	Pleasure	10:43
daxxar	Are there no running testservers?	10:43
daxxar	Metaserver doesn't report any, atleast :)	10:43
llnz	oh, i'll restart demo1 again	10:44
llnz	demo1 running	10:45
sijmen	I'm getting timeouts.. they probably blocked that port here :(	10:47
daxxar	:(	10:48
nash	good to know tp is popular enough to be blocked ;-)	10:50
JLP	ahoy people and bots	10:51
daxxar	Ahoy JLP	10:52
sijmen	well I don't know any other explanation	10:52
sijmen	hi JLP	10:52
sijmen	are you here for the Summer of Code? :+	10:52
daxxar	JLP is a mentor, so you could say that. :p	10:53
sijmen	hehe	10:53
sijmen	I'm off to buy some food..	10:53
JLP	oh i see 2 new applications	10:54
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sijmen	JLP: that makes..?	11:17
sijmen	32 or so?	11:17
JLP	35	11:17
sijmen	whoa	11:17
sijmen	2 more and there's a winner	11:17
JLP	hehe yeah, currently xdotx is the winner	11:18
sijmen	Well let's hope we've got 36 winners then :P	11:18
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daxxar	;-)	11:27
sijmen	ough school assignment example code: somefunc(std::string*)	11:27
CIA-17	Lee Begg <[email protected]> * tpserver-cpp/ (72 files in 2 dirs):	11:29
CIA-17	Moving frame processing from Player to new PlayerAgent:	11:29
CIA-17	Should avoid the re-login segfault, and is clearer for Player. Have been	11:29
CIA-17	meaning to do this for a while.	11:29
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mithro	howdy people	11:42
llnz	hi mithro	11:43
JLP	mithro: ahoy	11:43
mithro	sup?	11:43
JLP	i see we've got 3 additional mentors	11:44
jotham	heh	11:44
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nash	sijmen: Looks like there was a part - 8 people logged out about 2 minutes before you logged in	11:58
nash	A few just came back...	11:58
llnz	looked like a multi-way split	11:59
sijmen	ah okay	11:59
sijmen	a netsplit is when servers from the IRC network lost connection with each other, right?	11:59
llnz	yes	12:00
sijmen	okay	12:00
Epyon	nash, still here?	12:03
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nash	Epyon: Back again.. ues	12:05
nash	yes	12:06
Epyon	http://chaosforge.org/files/tp_battleship_02.png	12:06
tpb	<http://ln-s.net/LIY> (at chaosforge.org)	12:06
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llnz	Epyon: nice	12:07
nash	That's cool	12:07
nash	Nice and intimidating	12:07
Epyon	I only wonder which parts in the frigate and battleship should be "colorable"	12:08
nash	Only quibble - going a different way to the frigate	12:08
Epyon	Probably the "shield generators"	12:08
Epyon	Due to the texture?	12:08
nash	The two round sections seem obvious	12:08
nash	No facing to the right - different angle	12:08
Epyon	The round sections are "shield generators" in my imagination ;]	12:09
Epyon	I'll make all facing right	12:09
Epyon	Okay?	12:09
nash	Cool - that seems to be the best	12:09
nash	That would be excellent	12:09
nash	And yes the shield gens, and possibly the two flat shaded sections at the front	12:10
Epyon	But I'll "flip" the frigate model, because it looks better from the single-wing side :>	12:10
mithro	I like the battleship	12:11
mithro	what was the url for the frigate again?	12:11
Epyon	http://chaosforge.org/files/tp_frigate_04.png -- no textures tough	12:11
Epyon	Because on 64x64 they would be barely visible anyway :P	12:11
jotham	holy moly, the last ep of bsg was good	12:12
mithro	the frigate just doesn't look like what I would expect	12:12
nash	Epyon: Cool	12:12
Epyon	mithro, well I can remake it ;]	12:12
nash	The angle on the battleship is probably the better angle BTW	12:13
jotham	did you see my probe Epyon	12:13
jotham	your BS is cool btw	12:13
mithro	Epyon: I don't think your frigate looks "dangerous" enough or big enough to be a capital ship	12:13
nash	mithro: It's main use is to colonise in minisec ;-)	12:14
jotham	yeah the frig looks like something someone salvaged	12:14
Epyon	nash, any chance with going 80x80? There seems to be too much detail lost in 64x64	12:14
mithro	jotham: what was yours again	12:14
nash	Epyon: I can try... but I'll probably scale it back for somethings.	12:14
Epyon	mithro, it looks okay in 80x80 :P	12:14
Epyon	nash, so I'll supply 80x80	12:15
nash	Epyon: Cool	12:15
nash	mithro: We need somewhere to start to store these	12:15
mithro	nash: we have a media repository	12:15
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jotham	mines got nothing on Epyon's	12:16
jotham	let me get a linky	12:16
jotham	http://imagebin.org/7837	12:26
tpb	Title: Imagebin - A place to slap up your images. (at imagebin.org)	12:26
jotham	that was the scout/probe	12:27
nash	jotham: I think that one is cool	12:28
Epyon	and a lot more detailed than mine :P	12:33
Epyon	nash, I did a zipfile with the 80x80 images and masks, should I send it to you or place somewhere?	12:35
nash	You chose	12:36
nash	I'll add it to my source -	12:37
Epyon	http://chaosforge.org/files/tp_minisec_80x80.zip	12:38
tpb	<http://ln-s.net/LIy> (at chaosforge.org)	12:38
Epyon	Hmm, I wonder what licence I should put images created for TP under...	12:38
Epyon	I could public domain them, but it might be better to make them exclusive to TP.	12:39
Epyon	Anyway, in this case it's your call, nash.	12:40
llnz	mithro: ping	12:41
nash	Making exclusive to TP is tough to do licence wise	12:41
mithro	llnz: pong?	12:41
llnz	mithro: media licencing question from Epyon	12:41
nash	Epyon: Don't suppose you could give me the masks without the black - actually using it as an alpha mask?	12:41
mithro	Epyon: GPL	12:41
Epyon	nash, that would raise the size of the images like 4x times ;]	12:42
nash	Epyon: No, make it a 1 greyscale with an 8 bit alpha	12:42
nash	Or an indexed PNG - which can all be whites with different alpha	12:43
Epyon	nash, And I have no easy way of rendering those -- I'd have to do it in an external program, and the results might be messy :/	12:43
nash	Okay	12:43
nash	I can do it hear easily	12:43
* nash often has to do such things for work ;-)		12:43
Epyon	(currently I just substitute all materials for true black when rendering the "color mask")	12:43
Epyon	nash :)	12:44
nash	Epyon: Which frigate do you prefer?	12:44
Epyon	nash, I submitted two because I couldn't decide. The first one I think is more agressive tough.	12:45
Epyon	and makes an emphasis on it's bwingness :P	12:45
nash	heh	12:45
Epyon	Duh, I realy like doing models. If I only had some artistic sense I'd probably want to do that for a living :/	12:46
jotham	so the frigate should be a big ship?	12:48
jotham	not as big as the bs i realise	12:48
jotham	i guess i should go look at a navy website	12:48
Epyon	depends, missile frigates are usualy smaller ;]	12:49
jotham	i figured a frigate was comparible to a cruiser	12:50
jotham	basically something that could attack light craft confidently, and in a pack take on a bs	12:50
Epyon	Well that depends on what universe we're talking about :P	12:51
Epyon	or whether the realworld navy :>	12:51
Epyon	In StarWars for example, frigates were ships of the 300-900m size :P	12:51
Epyon	Just before the biggest ships	12:52
Epyon	(Mon Calamari Crusier and Imperial Star Destroyer)	12:52
jotham	ok so it'd be a safe bet to make it look like a missile boat	12:52
CIA-17	Lee Begg <[email protected]> * tpserver-cpp/modules/games/minisec/minisec.cpp : Fix not creating star system, etc for guest in Minisec	12:53
Epyon	Well, I was thinking more like the Nebulon-B frigate from SW, reduced 3 times in size.	12:53
nash	Epyon: Starting to integrate now	12:53
Epyon	nash, just don't overdo with color when colorizing :>	12:54
nash	I can add alpha to make it less obvious	12:54
Epyon	nash, yeah, that would be good. They'd look better if the original color is mixed with the players color.	12:55
jotham	holy crap the wikipedia battleship page has some sweet pics, the USS pennsylvania is hot	12:55
* llnz wanders off		12:58
llnz	later all	12:58
Epyon	later :)	12:58
nash	bye	12:58
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nash	Epyon: http://tranquillity.nash.id.au/tp/ships.png	13:10
jotham	cool	13:11
nash	I haven't integrated fully - but that is the edje files for it	13:11
* nash is currently trying ot add order processing to his client		13:11
Epyon	Heh, looks nice :D	13:13
Epyon	nash, but a little more alpha to the color maps wouldn't hurt :>	13:14
nash	Epyon: as above - ships2.png	13:17
nash	The red and blue are 255,0,0 and 0,0,255 respectively	13:17
nash	SO they are as bright as you get	13:17
nash	Epyon: I don't suppose you have enlightenment installed?	13:18
Epyon	I don't know what it is ;]	13:20
nash	www.enlightenment.org... Evas, Edje & Ecore are what my client are written using	13:21
Epyon	Yeah, looks better.	13:21
nash	If you look up a bit you'll see some shots of my client	13:21
Epyon	It's free?	13:22
nash	What is free? E is, the E libs are, and my client is.. yes	13:22
nash	BSD + Attribution	13:22
nash	So not to stallman's satisfaction... but as liberal as you get without reaching the public domain	13:23
Epyon	Aaaah, let me guess... the libs are *nix only?	13:24
nash	Epyon: Not quite	13:25
nash	There is a win32 port, a OSX port, a symbian port...	13:25
Epyon	But it's a normal library right? So the client will be portable?	13:26
nash	Yeah.	13:26
Epyon	cool :)	13:26
nash	I hopefully will get it to a nokuia 770 shortly	13:26
nash	Still the win32 port is a bit of a pain to get to work I believe	13:27
nash	For now I'm mostly worried about unix - inc osx	13:28
Epyon	Well, I'm a win only person :(	13:28
nash	My condolances	13:28
Epyon	Well, not because of choice :P	13:28
nash	Dual boot :-)	13:29
Epyon	I do have a linux on another partition -- but too much hassle to reboot :/	13:29
Epyon	Especialy when downloads and torrents are running.	13:30
Epyon	I will however put up another box for a linux server, so I might as well connect to it.	13:30
Epyon	And the reasons I can't switch to linux are two -- Photoshop and Max :P	13:31
Epyon	Sure there are GIMP and Blender. But both while giving similar capabilites (especialy GIMP, Blender is still far behind Max), lack the streamlinig that allows realy rapid work.	13:32
nash	agree	13:33
nash	Well part is you need to use gimp in a fairly different way	13:33
Epyon	True, but I finally learned it :P.	13:34
Epyon	Still, I'll do every task a lot faster in PS.	13:34
Epyon	nash, did anyone else signup for EliteSec?	13:51
* nash looks		13:52
nash	Just you...	13:53
nash	And you never answered my questions...	13:53
Epyon	I know, still thinking :)	13:53
Epyon	(seriously tough, I was busy the last two days :/)	13:54
nash	BTW: http://enlightenment.org/Main/FAQs/#14	13:54
tpb	Title: W W W . E N L I G H T E N M E N T . O R G (at enlightenment.org)	13:54
nash	You only have a few hours left	14:12
Epyon	?	14:15
nash	Before apps close...	14:16
nash	To answe the question ;-)	14:16
Epyon	The submission date is closing in a few hours.	14:16
nash	Yes... We'll be doing selections tomorrow evening	14:16
Epyon	As I understand, the "detailed inspection" time starts afterward...?	14:16
Epyon	I did however try to answer the question, and posted a comment.	14:17
nash	Just then?	14:17
* nash grumbles at stupid SoC page that keeps timing out		14:18
Epyon	Interim Period: Mentoring organizations review and rank student proposals; where necessary, mentoring organizations may request further proposal detail from the student applicant	14:18
Epyon	That's between 26 March and 11 April.	14:18
mithro	Epyon: we'll be doing the "review" tommorrow at 8:00pm my time	14:18
Epyon	Heh, you're not wasting time :P	14:18
nash	Give everyone a head start	14:19
nash	And thats why we have been asking people a lot with their applications	14:19
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Iwanowitch	Heya... how many? :P	14:36
nash	Iwanowitch: Don't know... code,google.com keeps timing out...	14:37
mithro	nash: 36	14:37
Iwanowitch	Ah, the final rush...	14:37
Epyon	mithro, that doesn't look good for us applicants :P	14:38
mithro	Epyon: I dunno, the people who have been hanging out on IRC seem to have generally better applications	14:39
Epyon	Say, like half of those is good, and you get 6 slots...	14:39
Epyon	a 3D client application will be chosen for sure.	14:40
Iwanowitch	Perhaps they'll just roll 6d36 or something :P	14:40
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Iwanowitch	(yeah, technically, that's wrong, I know)	14:41
nash	Iwanowitch: Actually we have set a game of 36 AIs...	14:41
nash	The last ones left standing	14:41
mithro	nash: btw, how goes the AI?	14:41
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Epyon	a MDIP client application probably also.	14:41
nash	mithro: Improving display of orders as we speak	14:42
Iwanowitch	That's a good idea... Are spectators allowed? :P	14:42
nash	And general object interface	14:42
nash	Then order submit, and it's general release time ;-)	14:42
mithro	nash: how goes the AI? have you managed to get 32 to play out yet?	14:42
mithro	or has tpserver-cpp not been able to keep up?	14:42
Epyon	mtsec and another technical, that leaves two slots :P	14:43
nash	I tried 16	14:43
nash	It was messy	14:43
mithro	nash: how far did you get?	14:43
nash	I ran out of RAM ;-)	14:43
nash	Too many ships after about 50 turns	14:44
Iwanowitch	Epyon: I don't really think there are a lot of MIDP client propsals... I only know of one (=mine :)	14:44
nash	mithro: I don't want to make it smarter... It's already a major PITA to play against	14:46
mithro	nash: make it smarter - then we can tune it backwards	14:46
nash	mithro: I'm kinda waiting for MTSec for that	14:47
Epyon	Iwanowitch, I'd say you have pretty good chances then, as long as your application is well written :)	14:47
miCh0u	so, competition is getting tighter and tighter?	14:48
*** miCh0u is now known as miChou		14:48
* miChou wonders if any of the tpserver-cpp improvements will get accepted :P		14:49
nash	miChou: I hope so	14:50
Iwanowitch	Epyon: also, I don't know about 6 slots... There will be 800 students in total in the SoC, and there are (quick guess) 125 organizations.	14:50
Iwanowitch	And I don't think TP is one of the largest of those.	14:50
* nash wants some other people to submit tpserver-cpp bugs		14:50
* miChou is away (last hours applications :D )		14:51
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Epyon	800 students, 139 orgs...	14:52
nash	7 hey?	14:53
mithro	but some orgs will get less and some more	14:53
Epyon	But Iwanowitch is right - I doubt it will be equal share for everybody :/	14:53
mithro	ie KDE had 200 applications a while ago	14:54
Epyon	And that 800 is unsure, 2006 had 630...	14:54
miChou	200?	14:54
* miChou considers not even sending that application any more :-s		14:54
mithro	miChou: they are likely to get quite a few slots however	14:54
miChou	why that?	14:55
miChou	:-o	14:55
mithro	miChou: slots are proportional to applications	14:55
miChou	mithro: to the total number of applications or to the toal number of let's say.. good applications?	14:56
mithro	miChou: not sure :P	14:56
miChou	mithro: well, what would life be like without a little mistery from time to time :P	14:57
* miChou goes back to Plasma applications		14:57
nash	Anyway - bed soon	15:05
nash	So good night peoples	15:05
nash	Everyone who applied for SoC - good luck!	15:05
Iwanowitch	'night	15:05
Epyon	nash, no chance for a comment on my comment? :/	15:12
nash	Epyon: I couldn;t load it before... looking now	15:12
nash	So we should do the EliteSec so you do a 3d client & procedural as well right?	15:13
Iwanowitch	procedural?	15:14
miChou	'nite nash	15:15
nash	That was to Epyon	15:16
nash	Iwanowitch: Procedural == procedural content	15:16
Iwanowitch	nash: textures, planets, names, that sort of stuff?	15:17
nash	Iwanowitch: Yes, and ships	15:18
nash	Names not so much - talk to Epyon, it's his proposal	15:18
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nash	Epyon: No comments at this point	15:18
Epyon	nash	15:19
Epyon	"<nash> So we should do the EliteSec so you do a 3d client & procedural as well right?"	15:19
Epyon	Not exactly ;]	15:19
nash	Just the 3d client then?	15:19
Epyon	But I would probably do normal 3D content for EliteSec and other current secs	15:19
Epyon	And try to get in touch and cooperation with the 3D client dev	15:20
nash	Cool	15:20
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supervillain	hello, can the thousand parsec be a standalone client for a warcraft clone. (SoC)	16:26
Epyon	supervillain, realtime?	16:27
supervillain	yes	16:34
Epyon	then the answers "no" :(	16:34
Epyon	TP is a turnbased protocol.	16:35
Epyon	(wonder wether this is an intentional abbrevation)	16:35
Lukstr	haha	16:35
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*** tpb changes topic to "Help us finish the game already! :) \|\| http://www.thousandparsec.net/tp/rss.php \|\| cpp-ser"		17:21
tpb	ChanServ has joined on worldforge	17:21
tpb	mode change by purple.worldforge.org on worldforge: +o ChanServ	17:21
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tpb	mode change by purple.worldforge.org on worldforge: +o ChanServ	17:22
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daxxar	What happened to the topic?	17:34
daxxar	cpp-ser!	17:34
daxxar	<snip>	17:34
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*** JLP changes topic to "Google SoC (due March 26th - Pacific) - http://www.thousandparsec.net/tp/google-summer-of-code-2007.php \| AI Programming Competition (due March 31) - http://www.thousandparsec.net/tp/comp.php \| Logs - http://www.thousandparsec.net/~irc/logs/ \| metaserver - metaserver.thousandparsec.net \| 2007-02-26, TP ranked 126th on SF"		17:55
* Epyon giggles.		17:58
Epyon	Google maps are fun :P	17:58
Epyon	With the SoC application I added my location with an estimated accurancy +- 4 meters :P	17:59
cherez	that is fun	18:01
cherez	that's about how close mine is	18:01
cherez	but it's in a 7 story building	18:01
Epyon	mine is 5 story	18:02
Epyon	But I've taken into account which room I am usualy sitting in ^^	18:02
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cherez	pesky campus firewall	19:19
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fizzleboink	hey guys	21:36
miChou	hi, fizzleboink	21:37
cherez	'lo	21:40
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cherez	hi-ho, nash	21:51
nash	heyo	21:51
* nash guesses cherez is in a different part of the planet to nash		21:51
cherez	quite possibly, since I was having a midnight snack when you were getting lunch yesterday	21:51
nash	Yep..	21:52
nash	Not even 8am here...	21:52
nash	about to have a phone conference with poeple on the other side of the planet	21:52
nash	Anyway - meeting time... back shortly	21:57
cherez	ls	21:58
cherez	doh, wrong window	21:58
daxxar	ls: #tp: No such file or directory	22:14
cherez	drat, I hope the mentors don't read that	22:15
daxxar	;-)	22:16
cherez	man, we do need a better client...	22:16
cherez	pywx is pretty clunky	22:16
cherez	anyone used tpserver-py?	22:25
cherez	dinner time	22:32
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Iwanowitch	So... Is the application time almost finished?	22:41
Iwanowitch	75 minutes left if I'm right...	22:43
Iwanowitch	I'm not going to wait for it I think.	22:43
Iwanowitch	Be seeing you all.	22:44
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mithro	the deadline is has been extend	22:46
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Todd	again?	22:47
Todd	haha	22:48
mithro	We'll be accepting student applications through 16:00 UTC tomorrow,	22:51
mithro	Tuesday, March 27th, which is 9:00 AM Pacific for those of you	22:51
mithro	tracking by California time.	22:51
mithro	yes	22:51
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nash	mithro: So what is the new target... ;-)	22:53
mithro	nash: i think we should go ahead like planned	22:53
mithro	suppively the 502 errors should be fixed too	22:53
nash	hah.	22:54
mithro	we are up to 37 now	22:54
nash	I'll believe that when I see it	22:54
nash	So many I haven't read yet	22:54
Todd	mithro: I know this is late, but I updated my application to include specific dates if you have the time to look at it.	22:55
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xdotx	many last minute applications?	23:52

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