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| JLP | cherez: pong | 00:02 |
|---|---|---|
| cherez | I submitted an application | 00:03 |
| nash | You guys need to be careful.. there is more table tennis then talk here... | 00:03 |
| JLP | nash: :) | 00:03 |
| JLP | cherez: i'll take a look | 00:03 |
| cherez | alright, thanks | 00:05 |
| cherez | who composed the MTSec rules? | 00:18 |
| JLP | cherez: comments added | 00:19 |
| JLP | cherez: i think it was mithro who came up with the rules, and I guess llnz also helped him | 00:20 |
| cherez | alright | 00:21 |
| cherez | there are some things not mentioned in the rules I wanted to get clarification on | 00:21 |
| cherez | like how missiles and torpedos are used | 00:21 |
| JLP | cherez: this would be the best to ask mithro, I think that basicaly every type of weapon has some size and then it depends on this size how many explosive you can packt in | 00:24 |
| JLP | cherez: you can also try to search the IRC logs, i think i talked about missles and torpedos with mithro some time ago | 00:25 |
| cherez | I understand the size part | 00:26 |
| cherez | it doesn't explain how they're launched | 00:26 |
| cherez | like, if it's just ship to ship combat, or if you will have missile frigates bombarding targets from across the map | 00:27 |
| JLP | cherez: ah the combat rules | 00:27 |
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| cherez | ya, it explains resolving damage in a satisfactory way | 00:28 |
| cherez | but it doesn't explain how you cause damage | 00:28 |
| JLP | cherez: as far as i know when ships arrive at one point and there is an enemy they all combine into one fleet, and then the firepower of the fleet is summed up and that is used in further calculations | 00:29 |
| cherez | is the firepower based on missiles and torpedos or another attribute of the ships? | 00:29 |
| JLP | cherez: yes, as far as i know, then the opponent can use other means like armour and dodging capability to lower the damage that would be done | 00:31 |
| JLP | cherez: but to be sure you should ask mithro , it could be that the combat rules aren't defined very well yet | 00:32 |
| cherez | those were the same impressions I got, thanks | 00:33 |
| cherez | I'll ask when he shows up | 00:33 |
| JLP | cherez: or ask in forums and he will answer when he gets back, so that you don't miss each other and that we can see the conversation later | 00:34 |
| cherez | ya, I need to stop by the forums later | 00:35 |
| cherez | back to my homework | 00:35 |
| dmpayton | cherez: Bah, homework. :P | 01:39 |
| * dmpayton has homework to work on aswell | 01:39 | |
| * JLP goes sleeping... | 01:48 | |
| JLP | good night all | 01:48 |
| cherez | good night | 01:49 |
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| mithro | nash: ping? | 04:11 |
| nash | mithro: pong! | 04:11 |
| mithro | hows life? you had a chance to read through some of the applications? | 04:11 |
| nash | Not yet - where are they? | 04:11 |
| nash | my email is still farked | 04:12 |
| mithro | http://code.google.com/soc/parsec/open.html | 04:12 |
| tpb | Title: Google Code - Summer of Code - Edit Profile (at code.google.com) | 04:12 |
| nash | mithro: I've got the mentor reg page again. | 04:14 |
| nash | Wait - logged in as the wrong google account... | 04:14 |
| nash | wait a moment | 04:14 |
| nash | Ahh... | 04:15 |
| nash | Cool | 04:15 |
| nash | Not bad so far | 04:15 |
| nash | Wonder how many places TP will get | 04:15 |
| nash | mithro: Wow - the first is huge... | 04:16 |
| * nash quickly scans the others | 04:16 | |
| mithro | nash: i think i'm really going to try and see if I can get 4 - I think there will be a little negotiation | 04:17 |
| nash | I thought they pretty much just assigned each project a number. I'd be surprised if we can get 4 (pleasantly surprised) | 04:19 |
| nash | One issue I see however is that there are 3 clients, and only 1 server side submission :-( | 04:19 |
| mithro | nash: well - from what I understand they take something similar (success spots * your number of applications / all applications + fudge) | 04:20 |
| nash | okay | 04:21 |
| mithro | there where about 6000 applications last year, and will be ~700 spots this year from what I understand | 04:21 |
| cherez | what's the issue here? | 04:21 |
| mithro | cherez: no issue, just chatting to nash about how many slots the project is likely to get | 04:22 |
| cherez | what are your conclusions? | 04:23 |
| mithro | cherez: wait and see :) | 04:24 |
| nash | I think the answer is not enough - but yes.. .wait and see, and make sure you have a good application - possibly multiple ;-) | 04:24 |
| cherez | only 4 of us have applied? | 04:25 |
| nash | cherez: In the past 4 days... yes... Still another week to go. | 04:25 |
| mithro | cherez: currently there are only 4 applications | 04:26 |
| nash | In the past I believe most of the apps appear in the last 48 hours - it is students after all ;-) | 04:26 |
| mithro | he he, yes I belive that is correct | 04:26 |
| cherez | and that will get more spots? | 04:26 |
| nash | cherez: Ideally ;-) | 04:26 |
| mithro | cherez: so feel free to submit more applications to do stuff :) | 04:27 |
| mithro | cherez: btw you had some questions about MTSec? | 04:27 |
| cherez | nothing too specific, I'm a bit confused about how weapons will work in it | 04:28 |
| cherez | are they, say, launched every round of combat at the opposing fleet? | 04:28 |
| mithro | cherez: well, Combat hasn't really be properly worked out | 04:30 |
| nash | That would be part of the project I think | 04:31 |
| cherez | at present, I get the impression that every tube launches 1 torpedo/missile per round then damage for both fleets resolves | 04:31 |
| nash | cherez: Seems sane. | 04:31 |
| nash | cherez: The trick is damage... | 04:32 |
| cherez | ya | 04:32 |
| cherez | especially with torpedos, since we can't really know if they damage or not | 04:32 |
| mithro | nash and I where also discussing that torpedoes have to be built and loaded into a ship | 04:33 |
| nash | Indeed - and thinking about supply lines and transfer from ship to ship as well | 04:34 |
| cherez | that thought just struck me as well | 04:34 |
| mithro | cherez: but you have flexability to adapt the ruleset as you find "bugs" and stuff | 04:35 |
| mithro | btw cherez, what is your real name? | 04:35 |
| nash | Indeed. | 04:35 |
| cherez | Steven Wallace | 04:36 |
| mithro | cherez: okay cool - your app has some comments on it, definately a good start | 04:36 |
| nash | One part of that project is to make sure it is an interesting and deep game - as you noted in your application | 04:36 |
| cherez | I really like the idea of supply lines | 04:37 |
| cherez | scouts equipped with just racks to resupply your fleets | 04:37 |
| nash | Well scouts don't carry much... maybe something bigger to take more there in one ship.. | 04:38 |
| nash | cherez: have you seen the comments on the proposal? | 04:38 |
| cherez | just JLP's so far | 04:38 |
| cherez | I'm picturing battleships and dreadnaughts with large capacities, and scouts acting as runners | 04:39 |
| nash | One comment to think about seriously is his comment on time line. I would never approve a project at work without a time estimates. You have a tight deadline, and a mid-project progress. | 04:40 |
| nash | Milestones would be important. | 04:40 |
| nash | This applies to a lot proposals | 04:41 |
| cherez | ya, I'm editing the submission now | 04:41 |
| cherez | man, I need to find the code to my Scrabble AI... | 04:42 |
| cherez | it had a very good inherited configuration system | 04:42 |
| nash | cherez: You should have entered the AI comp... still got a week ;-) | 04:42 |
| cherez | that could make composing rulesets easy | 04:42 |
| cherez | I haven't played TP nearly enough to think I'm ready to enter the AI comp, though whenever the next comes I might go for it | 04:44 |
| cherez | would anyone be opposed to trying to de-emphasizing the configure.py in place of an ini framework? | 04:44 |
| cherez | that would make it easier for non-programmers to play with rulesets, and would let them be passed around without inspecting for viruses | 04:46 |
| mithro | you mean the config.py in tpserver-py? | 04:46 |
| cherez | right | 04:46 |
| cherez | it's presently just a .py that specifies most customizable aspects of the game | 04:47 |
| mithro | well, I prefer the config.py way - but if you can come up with a good way of doing it otherwise - feel free | 04:47 |
| mithro | cherez: yeah - I know I wrote it :) | 04:47 |
| cherez | I like the power of it, but I'd think an ini system might be friendlier | 04:48 |
| mithro | cherez: one choice would be to write a "config.py" which read ini files :P | 04:48 |
| cherez | ya | 04:48 |
| cherez | that was my intention | 04:48 |
| mithro | cherez: then go straight ahead :P | 04:50 |
| cherez | also, the MTSec docs say nothing beats a Battle Frigate for Speed/Firepower ratio | 04:52 |
| cherez | but if firepower is just a function of size, the Battleship has the best ratio | 04:52 |
| cherez | or at least the Frigate has equal firepower and higher speed | 04:53 |
| nash | cherez: Take some notes. | 04:53 |
| nash | mithro can correct me if I'm wrong... but you don't need to worry about using the exact details as printed - updating or modifying them is appropriate - especially if it makes a better game. After all, it has never been play tested ;-) | 04:54 |
| mithro | cherez: there is a spreadsheet in that directory somewhere | 04:55 |
| mithro | but as nash said - feel free to modify | 04:56 |
| mithro | make sure you don't cross this line however | 04:58 |
| mithro | MTSec will NOT include the following features: | 04:58 |
| mithro | * Research (Creating and finding new technologies, etc). | 04:58 |
| mithro | http://www.thousandparsec.net/tp/dev/documents/mtsec.ods | 04:58 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/K2t> (at www.thousandparsec.net) | 04:58 |
| mithro | anyway I'm running late now | 04:58 |
| cherez | alright, so long | 05:00 |
| cherez | so.. 12 weeks between the initial date and final submission... | 05:00 |
| cherez | widterm being 7 weeks in... | 05:00 |
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| mithro | cherez: don't forget to include backup time and stuff | 05:01 |
| mithro | hello t0dd | 05:01 |
| t0dd | hey | 05:01 |
| mithro | t0dd: I have to run, but nash might have time to show you around | 05:02 |
| nash | hey t0dd | 05:03 |
| t0dd | alright, thank you | 05:03 |
| nash | cherez: Where are you locate | 05:03 |
| nash | d? | 05:03 |
| t0dd | hello.. I was here earlier. I am still not sure which project I would like to get involved with based on my experience. I really like the thousand parsec organization though and would love to get involved in some way | 05:04 |
| nash | What else are you looking at? | 05:05 |
| cherez | located physically? | 05:06 |
| nash | Yeah | 05:06 |
| * nash notes this is not SoC related - just curious if you are another antipodian | 05:07 | |
| cherez | the United States | 05:07 |
| t0dd | I like the idea of creating a new "ruleset" development environment. I did something similar to this in my functional programming class and although I am only somewhat familiar with Lisp.. I do know ML very well | 05:07 |
| cherez | Rolla, Missuori, to be exact | 05:07 |
| nash | Cool | 05:07 |
| nash | Know missuori, never heard of rolla ;-) | 05:07 |
| cherez | ruleset development environment? | 05:07 |
| nash | t0dd: Cool. | 05:07 |
| cherez | it if weren't for the school, no one would have | 05:08 |
| nash | heh ;-) My US geography is not exactly great... so it may be quite well known... | 05:08 |
| cherez | t0dd: You might we working with me then, I'm making a ruleset, and am modifying the server to make rulesets easier to add | 05:08 |
| nash | t0dd: Have you started work on your proposal yet? | 05:08 |
| * nash would be interested to see it. | 05:08 | |
| t0dd | I am working on it now.. I haven't really done much since I still wasn't sure which project would be right for me | 05:09 |
| nash | It may be worth multiple applications (if you can... I'm not sure of all the student rules) | 05:10 |
| cherez | 20 applications per student | 05:11 |
| cherez | more than anyone has the right to make good applications for :-) | 05:11 |
| nash | That's insane. | 05:11 |
| nash | Anyway - apply for both. | 05:11 |
| t0dd | it seems creating such an ide that would help developers to easily add new features would be highly beneficial | 05:12 |
| nash | Indeed | 05:12 |
| t0dd | though I am not sure what this completely entails since I don't know much about thousand parsec.. I hope that wouldn't put me at a disadvantage | 05:13 |
| cherez | I don't know about the C++ server, but on the Python server it would be terrible at present | 05:14 |
| nash | t0dd: The website has a lot of details | 05:14 |
| t0dd | yeah, I'm looking around now | 05:14 |
| nash | What do you mean about the servers? /me doesn;t quite follow | 05:14 |
| cherez | I don't know exactly what the ruleset editor does | 05:15 |
| t0dd | nash: are you staying a bit? I plan to submit my proposal shortly | 05:15 |
| nash | t0dd: I'll be leaving in about 1:30 minutes | 05:16 |
| cherez | but if it is supposed to generate files the the servers to run, that could be tough | 05:16 |
| nash | cherez: Yes. So it probably also needs to involve some meta-language for the server to understand to load the ruleset description... | 05:17 |
| t0dd | oh, nash! you are the mentor for this project | 05:20 |
| t0dd | how about that.. haha | 05:20 |
| t0dd | sorry, that was just a major revelation on my part I guess. | 05:21 |
| nash | :-) | 05:21 |
| nash | That's okay | 05:21 |
| cherez | well, since I'm looking to be coding the ruleset framework, I guess we'll need a meta-language | 05:21 |
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| nash | t0dd: However all of the mentors will be going through the proposals... | 05:22 |
| t0dd | right | 05:26 |
| nash | t0dd: but it is an interesting project. Possibly very elegant, and seems like a natural for a functional language | 05:27 |
| cherez | nash: do you by chance know if the clients would work with a different ruleset, or if they have aspects of Minisec hardcoded? | 05:27 |
| nash | cherez: In theory, they should work without specific support. Practically it woudl be nicer in some cases. | 05:28 |
| nash | Also since there is only one ruleset ... it's all theory. | 05:28 |
| nash | The python client should be fairly system agnostic. | 05:29 |
| nash | Others you'd have to see | 05:29 |
| cherez | ya, I might have to fix up at least 1 client to play | 05:29 |
| nash | cherez: Shouldn't be a major issue. Any most issues will fall firmly in client bug | 05:30 |
| cherez | ya, but I will need a way to test | 05:30 |
| cherez | shouldn't be hard to patch the clients | 05:31 |
| cherez | if it is... is there a text based client perchance? | 05:31 |
| nash | Shoudl be easy - and you will get upstream support for core things. | 05:31 |
| cherez | ahh, good | 05:31 |
| nash | There is - I've never used, not sure of the state | 05:31 |
| nash | But could be nice for testing ;-) | 05:31 |
| cherez | ya, it should give me the least fight with changes to the server | 05:33 |
| nash | heh | 05:34 |
| nash | cherez: I wouldn't be too worried about that | 05:35 |
| nash | It's not likely to be a show stopper.. .however you may wish to add it to risks in your proposal | 05:37 |
| nash | t0dd: BTW: Also the mentors aren't set in stone, they are fairly arbitrary at this point. | 05:44 |
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| * mithro is at Uni in a lecture now :) | 05:47 | |
| nash | So nothing important in other words | 05:47 |
| cherez | welcome home, mithro | 05:48 |
| mithro | :) | 05:48 |
| mithro | doing Commications 4 | 05:48 |
| mithro | nash: you said you where having problems with your email? is that correct? | 05:49 |
| cherez | and you're communicating on IRC, way to show initiative | 05:49 |
| nash | mithro: Yes. I should get it all okay later.. but for now it's pretty flaky | 05:49 |
| nash | you can use [email protected] if you need to email me | 05:49 |
| t0dd | nash: I submitted my proposal | 05:49 |
| t0dd | nash: oh, I see. well, perhaps you still wouldnt mind looking at what I have submitted? | 05:50 |
| * nash looks at t0dds proposal | 05:50 | |
| mithro | nash: it would be good if you could check for any SoC private emails - I might put a note on the webpage about your not being able to access email and recommend the list | 05:50 |
| cherez | my next draft is nearly ready too | 05:51 |
| nash | Okay - or put in my work email for now - that is reliable - and I read them both normally | 05:51 |
| nash | cherez: cool | 05:51 |
| nash | mithro: Some interesting info on the SoC page | 05:51 |
| mithro | nash: which page? :) | 05:52 |
| nash | The list of projects | 05:52 |
| mithro | nash: ooohh :) | 05:52 |
| mithro | i see now | 05:52 |
| t0dd | umm, the stupid ? in the second paragraph was supposed to be a smiley | 05:53 |
| t0dd | I forgot Microsoft Word automatically converts those | 05:53 |
| mithro | t0dd: my mum has been going on about Carnegie Mellon, where are you located? | 05:54 |
| t0dd | Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania | 05:54 |
| mithro | t0dd: they have just started doing a big push in my home town - Adelaide, Australia | 05:57 |
| t0dd | oh, awesome.. that is where the cmu heinz school just relocated to in Australia | 05:58 |
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| mithro | t0dd: yeah, my mum thinks they are very strong in CompSci - I can't say I've heard of them before Mum started going on about them | 06:01 |
| t0dd | yeah, we are.. the phd program here has ranked #1 for the past couple of years in us weekly | 06:02 |
| nash | that's nice | 06:03 |
| t0dd | I guess for cs and business is what we are most well-known for | 06:03 |
| mithro | I know your very well known for your buisness | 06:04 |
| cherez | I'm out of ideas to add to the application and the night is beginning to claim my intellect | 06:04 |
| cherez | I'd like to fix up the structure more, but I suppose I could get comments on how it is now | 06:05 |
| t0dd | nash: what did you think of my initial submission? | 06:05 |
| nash | t0dd: Commenting now | 06:05 |
| mithro | cherez: I'm happy to have a running commentary :) | 06:05 |
| t0dd | okay | 06:06 |
| mithro | t0dd: i've commented too | 06:06 |
| cherez | my next application is up whenever you guys want to read it over | 06:06 |
| mithro | i have to admit this is really exciting :) | 06:07 |
| cherez | hmm? | 06:08 |
| mithro | cherez: all these new faces, getting applications to do stuff for Thousand Parsec, etc :) | 06:09 |
| t0dd | hmm, can I not repeatedly update the detailed description portion of my application? | 06:12 |
| cherez | glad you're enjoying it | 06:12 |
| t0dd | yeah, this is really a great program | 06:12 |
| t0dd | I have had no open source experience before this | 06:12 |
| t0dd | but it is wonderful to get involved with it | 06:13 |
| mithro | t0dd: you should be able to update it once after each mentor comment | 06:13 |
| t0dd | oh, alright | 06:14 |
| dmpayton | Anyone here listen to classic rock? | 06:15 |
| cherez | come on dmpayton, at least make it sound like we're trying to be on topic:-P | 06:15 |
| cherez | and yes | 06:16 |
| dmpayton | cherez: lol, sorry. :P Just found out that singer from Boston died. :( | 06:17 |
| dmpayton | </offtopic> | 06:17 |
| t0dd | yeah, that was crazy | 06:17 |
| t0dd | I love the song Amanda | 06:17 |
| mithro | cherez: we are okay with off-topic chatter as long as it doesn't interfer with on-topic chat | 06:17 |
| cherez | :-( | 06:17 |
| cherez | that's awful | 06:18 |
| nash | t0dd: More comments for you... A few are repeats of mithro's | 06:19 |
| t0dd | thank you very much | 06:20 |
| mithro | btw peoples, don't be disheartened by comments - it means that you have a better chance as you have had feedback | 06:20 |
| nash | Absolutely. Most of the proposals are good so far. | 06:22 |
| dmpayton | mithro: Yeah...sofar everyones comments have boiled down to "We want a timeline!" | 06:22 |
| dmpayton | Plus JLB wants updates and nash wants to know the risks. :P | 06:23 |
| mithro | dmpayton: well - it's a little more then that - but yes a timeline is a very important part | 06:23 |
| nash | dmpayton: Trust me - I want the timeline, and I want the risks to see why the timeline may break | 06:23 |
| mithro | you are working against a deadline on some rather big projects | 06:24 |
| dmpayton | Right-o | 06:24 |
| cherez | what exactly do you want in the risks? | 06:24 |
| dmpayton | As far as updates go, I'm going to host a blog. However, I'm as-yet undecided when I'll use a pre-built one or roll my own | 06:24 |
| dmpayton | I might roll my own using web.py, to get a better understanding of how it works before the main project begins in late-may | 06:25 |
| nash | Actually it's a fairly big project time wise... 10 odd weeks of project... say 200-400 hours? Maybe? Not sure exactly. There is a lot of time for things to go wrong. | 06:25 |
| cherez | 12 weeks | 06:26 |
| t0dd | Are all of us here being considered for the same project? | 06:26 |
| dmpayton | t0dd: we're all be considered for different aspects of the same project | 06:26 |
| cherez | so risks will be a list of what could go wrong and prolong the project? | 06:26 |
| nash | cherez: I'm ignoring "Get up to speed time" | 06:26 |
| dmpayton | the project being the Thousand Parsec framework | 06:27 |
| dmpayton | my aspect being the web-client | 06:27 |
| dmpayton | someone else may do a 3d client | 06:27 |
| dmpayton | work on the game implementation | 06:27 |
| dmpayton | etc | 06:27 |
| nash | cherez: Yes - also things that can stop the project dead in it's tracks | 06:27 |
| nash | You know the diff between technical and non-technical in this case? | 06:27 |
| t0dd | dmpayton: these are different projects then | 06:27 |
| t0dd | within the framework | 06:28 |
| cherez | right | 06:29 |
| cherez | unless 2 people have tried to get the same project, I don't think that's happened yet | 06:29 |
| mithro | don't forget things like "I get bed ridden for a week and can't code" or "My mentor gets hit by a bus", or .... | 06:29 |
| nash | mithro: You forgot "Social Life" ;-) | 06:30 |
| mithro | yes | 06:30 |
| cherez | "girlfriend leaves me and a spend a month crying and eating only TV dinners" | 06:30 |
| mithro | cherez: that would be good for coding, no? :) | 06:31 |
| mithro | anyway I have to run | 06:31 |
| mithro | bblr | 06:31 |
| cherez | so long | 06:31 |
| dmpayton | there's also "I won the lottery and am taking a month-long vacation in the Bahamas" :) | 06:31 |
| nash | You can leave out risks like that. | 06:34 |
| nash | but a lot is: What worries me? What do I think could take a lot longer then I expect? What am I doing I've never done before... | 06:34 |
| t0dd | nash: could I private message you? | 06:34 |
| nash | In a way risks are often the interesting part of the project | 06:34 |
| nash | t0dd: You may | 06:34 |
| nash | You can also IM me if you like | 06:35 |
| cherez | so now that I added a timelime, I get to write why it's wrong | 06:35 |
| nash | cherez: Spoken like a true IT professional ;-) | 06:36 |
| nash | Yes | 06:36 |
| mithro | yay for tcpip! | 06:43 |
| mithro | back | 06:43 |
| mithro | managed to hold my connection over a VPN disconnect, change to new wireless connection - VPN connect | 06:44 |
| nash | good thing it's not ssl ;-) | 06:45 |
| mithro | nash: why? | 06:49 |
| nash | mithro: Don't worry - you are on the VPN... la da da... | 06:51 |
| mithro | well my VPN isn't exactly encrypted :P | 06:51 |
| nash | Ahh... So it's not really 'P' then ;-) | 06:56 |
| mithro | as private as the general internet :) | 06:58 |
| mithro | or wireless network | 06:58 |
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| nash | lol | 06:59 |
| nash | Anyway - I'll be bailing soon. | 06:59 |
| nash | okay leaving now... | 07:08 |
| nash | mithro: I won't be online again until tomorrow 9 (sydney time). So I'll talk to you then... | 07:09 |
| nash | All the students... keep up the good work... the proposals so far are great | 07:09 |
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| mithro | hi Lee | 07:21 |
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| mithro | llnz: lots of new applications | 07:24 |
| llnz2 | cool, will have a look in a minute | 07:24 |
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| llnz | looks like google has fixed that bug.... | 07:30 |
| mithro | yes | 07:36 |
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| mithro | heading home now | 08:31 |
| mithro | see ya all later tonight | 08:31 |
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| llnz2 | grrr... adsl | 08:47 |
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| CIA-17 | Lee Begg <[email protected]> * tpserver-cpp/tpserver/metaserverconnection.cpp : | 09:01 |
| CIA-17 | Stop exception on socket error connecting to metaserver: | 09:01 |
| CIA-17 | One character change. The exception makes the server stop. | 09:01 |
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| mithro | howdy | 09:18 |
| dmpayton | 'llo | 09:18 |
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| llnz | silly adsl.... | 09:20 |
| llnz | wp mithro | 09:21 |
| dmpayton | question on the star map. How imperative is it that you're able to zoom in? For instance, I was thinking of having a single-scale map that starts out with your system centered. Then, of course, a list of all universe object that you can click on to go to them. | 09:21 |
| * dmpayton is assessing the risks as Nash wanted, and the star map is one of them | 09:22 | |
| mithro | dmpayton: zooming would be pretty important | 09:22 |
| mithro | jotham: ping? | 09:24 |
| llnz | dmpayton: distances between things are important, as is visualising the distances | 09:28 |
| dmpayton | Hmm... | 09:29 |
| * dmpayton looks into a pythong grpahics library, as his original idea may not work. | 09:30 | |
| dmpayton | python* | 09:30 |
| dmpayton | graphics* | 09:31 |
| mithro | dmpayton: PIL? | 09:32 |
| dmpayton | I was looking at PyX (googled: python graphics), but PIL would work aswell | 09:33 |
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| dmpayton | Thing is, I wanted the images of each object get larger as you zoom in... like having a star take up half the map, or actually being able to see a ship | 09:36 |
| llnz | provide multiple maps (map views) | 09:37 |
| llnz | one with the overview, one with the detail (the one you just described) | 09:37 |
| llnz | prehaps | 09:39 |
| llnz | perhaps.... | 09:39 |
| dmpayton | building the mpas dynamically in Python would be more server resource intensive | 09:39 |
| llnz | shouldn't be too bad with layering | 09:40 |
| dmpayton | Yeah | 09:44 |
| dmpayton | I spent a little time working on a little prototype star map... nothing big, just uses JS to place star images according to XY coords | 09:45 |
| mithro | dmpayton: you may be able to pre-generate a large number | 09:45 |
| mithro | dmpayton: you can scale the sizes using different height/width? | 09:46 |
| dmpayton | Yeah | 09:46 |
| mithro | http://genmapp.org/gsoc/mentors_by_category.htm | 09:46 |
| dmpayton | I don't know... I may leave this issue open in the application (client side JS vs server side python) | 09:46 |
| dmpayton | It'd be cool to impliment it in vPython, but...that's not really feasible for a web app. :P | 09:48 |
| dmpayton | For having such strong advocacy for Python, Google sure has a lot of Java projects on their ideas page | 09:51 |
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| mithro | dmpayton: he he :) | 09:53 |
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| mithro | they buy a lot of other companies | 09:53 |
| dmpayton | lol | 09:57 |
| dmpayton | well, they're all related to GWT, which is home-grown, so buying other companies is a bad excuse. :P | 09:57 |
| mithro | ahh well, that was my guess | 09:58 |
| dmpayton | I'm going to leave the issue of the star map open for now in the application. That okay? | 10:05 |
| mithro | dmpayton: thats fine | 10:05 |
| * llnz wonders why there is only one c++ application so far | 10:10 | |
| mithro | llnz: C++ is evil ;) | 10:11 |
| llnz | python is a snake, not that much better | 10:11 |
| mithro | :P | 10:12 |
| dmpayton | Hey, snakes are awesome | 10:14 |
| dmpayton | Infact, I just adopted 2 Ball Pythons. :) | 10:14 |
| llnz | c++ is a ladder, python is a snake :-p | 10:14 |
| dmpayton | Paid for them yesterday... well get them when I move to California in the coming weeks | 10:15 |
| dmpayton | 3 years old, fully grown, about 5 feet long each. :) | 10:15 |
| dmpayton | I assume clayasaurus wants to write the 3d client in Python? | 10:16 |
| mithro | dmpayton: cool | 10:16 |
| mithro | dmpayton: yes | 10:16 |
| dmpayton | Nice. | 10:16 |
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| llnz | later all | 10:25 |
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| jotham | we should be using opengl (via amanith probably) for all the graphics stuff | 10:47 |
| jotham | starmaps and the battleviewer | 10:47 |
| jotham | etc | 10:47 |
| jotham | so i'm sick again, and it's horrible | 10:47 |
| * jotham gives up at life | 10:48 | |
| jotham | just figured out how to control VLC via my bluetooth cell, so now my laptop has a movie remote :p | 10:48 |
| mithro | jotham: any luck? | 10:53 |
| jotham | no patch, i'm sick again | 10:53 |
| jotham | it's pretty crap | 10:53 |
| jotham | anyway check what i said about amanith | 10:53 |
| mithro | jotham: probably | 10:54 |
| * jotham shrugs | 10:54 | |
| dmpayton | jotham: the 3d clients that clayasaurus can use (Ogre or Panda) support both OpenGL and DirectX | 10:54 |
| jotham | i can only see these things from a functionality pov, not a license point of view etc | 10:54 |
| dmpayton | As for the web client...opengl isn't really an option | 10:54 |
| jotham | yeah i know ogre 3D | 10:55 |
| jotham | don't know panda | 10:55 |
| dmpayton | www.panda3d.org | 10:55 |
| jotham | yeah googled it =) | 10:55 |
| dmpayton | developed by Disney, now maintained by CMU. | 10:56 |
| jotham | heh, i used to live at cmu | 10:56 |
| jotham | panda looks cool | 10:57 |
| dmpayton | Ogre is more powerfull, but Panda would be easier from a python perspective, as it was developed specifically to use with Python | 10:57 |
| jotham | would be nice to see a google maps hack something like frappr (but not as apparently retarded) that allowed you to keep groups like frappr but it showed a clock with a label over each persons location, so at a glance you could see the time for every member of your group | 10:59 |
| jotham | how would the web client interface with the server | 11:00 |
| jotham | some kind of interface program? | 11:01 |
| jotham | or just an http / cgi component to the server? | 11:01 |
| dmpayton | jotham: http://www.mapwow.com <--I wanted to do something like this...this is the only implementation of Google Maps I've seen where the actual map is customized | 11:01 |
| dmpayton | jotham: the web client would make AJAX calls to the server | 11:02 |
| jotham | whoa i haven't played wow in over a year, that brings it all back | 11:03 |
| dmpayton | as for the Google Maps thing, mithro said he wanted something more open since Google Maps isn't technically open source | 11:03 |
| dmpayton | yeah..I started playing wow in december | 11:03 |
| jotham | i don't know what mithro has to do with the google maps thing i mentioned :p | 11:03 |
| jotham | i specifically want for myself a time tracking tool using the google maps thing and frappr style groups | 11:03 |
| jotham | just wondered if you guys had seen such a thing | 11:04 |
| dmpayton | Ah... I was going to use the Google Maps API to create the star map for the web client, similarly how that place used the API to create a WoW map. | 11:04 |
| jotham | ahh | 11:04 |
| dmpayton | but Mithro dind't care too much for that idea, so I've had to come up with soemthing else | 11:05 |
| jotham | yeah it wouldn't be too hard to recreate their product, just a shame you'd have to recreate it =) | 11:05 |
| dmpayton | Yep | 11:05 |
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| dmpayton | hello tuna | 11:05 |
| jotham | ok anyway i'm going to go be sick again and sleep | 11:05 |
| dmpayton | feel better, jotham. | 11:06 |
| JLP | morning all | 11:49 |
| * JLP goes to read IRC backlogs | 11:49 | |
| dmpayton | 'llo JLP | 11:51 |
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| mithro | daxxar: ping? | 12:10 |
| daxxar | pong. | 12:10 |
| mithro | ~seen daxxar | 12:10 |
| tpb | mithro: daxxar was last seen in #tp 0 seconds ago: <daxxar> pong. | 12:10 |
| daxxar | ;-) | 12:11 |
| mithro | daxxar: just wondering how your SoC application(s) are going | 12:11 |
| daxxar | None done yet. I've translated my CV (however irrelevant) to english, and started on one application. Bit busy with school, but hoping to finish the two I have in mind today. :) | 12:12 |
| mithro | daxxar: okay cool | 12:16 |
| dmpayton | mithro: the more I think about this project, the more I worry that there won't be enough time to impliment all of the features needed. Would it be alright if I listed designs as "to be implimented if there is time" for the soc app? | 12:35 |
| dmpayton | That's not to say if I dont get it done for soc then it won't get done at all...Just to be completed after soc. | 12:36 |
| dmpayton | it's mroe of a precaution to make sure I can meet my soc goals in the allotted time. | 12:36 |
| dmpayton | more even | 12:36 |
| mithro | dmpayton: it's okay | 12:36 |
| mithro | but justify it | 12:36 |
| daxxar | what're you propsing to do, dmpayton? =) | 12:40 |
| dmpayton | daxxar: web client | 12:43 |
| dmpayton | You? | 12:43 |
| daxxar | not sure yet, it's all so tempting ;) | 12:43 |
| dmpayton | daxxar: llnz mentioned something earlier about the lack of c++ projects. ;) | 12:52 |
| daxxar | you mean proposals or ideas? | 12:53 |
| dmpayton | proposals | 12:53 |
| daxxar | yeah, i was thinking of submitting my application for something using c++. :) | 12:53 |
| daxxar | some of the server work, per'aps. | 12:54 |
| mithro | daxxar: was it you who was intrested in the RFTS ruleset? | 12:54 |
| dmpayton | i'm doing the web client in python, clayasaurus is looking at a 3d client in python... Not sure what else there is. | 12:54 |
| dmpayton | Nope. I'm Web Client | 12:54 |
| dmpayton | I have no experience in C++, so... That's a bit outta my league. | 12:55 |
| daxxar | no, i didn't see that idea before just now, mithro | 12:56 |
| daxxar | anyways, brb. | 12:57 |
| dmpayton | <mithro> daxxar: was it you who was intrested in the RFTS ruleset? <---errr... For some reason I thought it was daxxar who was asking me that question. uess it just shows how much I need sleep right now... | 12:58 |
| mithro | dmpayton: i think that shows the need for sleep :) | 12:58 |
| dmpayton | well, at 6am, what do yuo expect? :) | 12:58 |
| dmpayton | When I finish revising my app, I'm going to bed. | 12:59 |
| dmpayton | mithro: you ever used Python as a CGI on the web server? | 13:04 |
| mithro | dmpayton: no, the IRC search is a python CGI script | 13:05 |
| dmpayton | My host is having issues with python... | 13:06 |
| mithro | dmpayton: :/ what is happening? | 13:07 |
| dmpayton | Well | 13:07 |
| dmpayton | my host supports python using both CGI and FastCGI | 13:07 |
| dmpayton | When I run the script as CGI, I get a 500 error | 13:07 |
| dmpayton | "Premature end of script headers: <path>/soc/code.py" | 13:08 |
| dmpayton | when I run as FastCGI, the browser hangs there...says it's loading, but nothing ever loads. | 13:08 |
| mithro | i recommend just using CGI to start with | 13:09 |
| dmpayton | Yeah | 13:09 |
| mithro | make sure you are outputing the correct newlines | 13:09 |
| dmpayton | Agree'd, just thought I'd give it a try with fcgi | 13:09 |
| dmpayton | I don't think it's an error with my script, though | 13:10 |
| mithro | test it locally? | 13:10 |
| dmpayton | 1) it works fine locally | 13:10 |
| dmpayton | 2) another user posted in the forums with the same issues (same 500 error on cgi) | 13:11 |
| dmpayton | http://forums.asmallorange.com/index.php?showtopic=9210 | 13:11 |
| mithro | dmpayton: :/ | 13:11 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/K3C> (at forums.asmallorange.com) | 13:11 |
| daxxar | back. | 13:14 |
| dmpayton | wb daxxar | 13:15 |
| daxxar | how many applications have you gotten thus far, mithro? | 13:16 |
| daxxar | guessing kinda sparse, i hear the norm is a flood right before deadline :p | 13:16 |
| mithro | daxxar: 5 | 13:16 |
| dmpayton | mithro: My app is updated. | 13:17 |
| mithro | dmpayton: will look at in a minute | 13:17 |
| dmpayton | My bed is sitting there...staring at me...and it's looking sexier and sexier by the minute... | 13:19 |
| dmpayton | I'm going to bed. | 13:19 |
| mithro | dmpayton: i would recommend it | 13:19 |
| dmpayton | Gnight...or morning...or whatever | 13:20 |
| daxxar | Referring to your bed as "sexy" is a sure sign, but exactly of what I don't know. :O | 13:21 |
| mithro | daxxar: sleep deprevation | 13:22 |
| daxxar | Yeah, most likely. ;-) | 13:25 |
| daxxar | Is it just me, or are the persistence-implementation ideas kinda .. small? | 13:25 |
| * daxxar takes a closer look on the current module | 13:25 | |
| mithro | daxxar: they are a bit small - I would expect a student to have some extra ideas on what to do | 13:30 |
| daxxar | Yeah | 13:31 |
| daxxar | According to your sloc-breakdown, tpserver-cpp is ~30% shellscript. :p | 13:35 |
| * daxxar reads some documentation | 13:36 | |
| mithro | daxxar: configure and stuff :) | 13:37 |
| mithro | the ANSI C stuff is the libltdl loader | 13:38 |
| daxxar | ah, yep. =) | 13:40 |
| daxxar | dynamic library loader. :) | 13:40 |
| mithro | yes | 13:41 |
| mithro | we have yet to figure out how to get sloc to ignore a directory | 13:41 |
| mithro | anyway I must head to bed | 13:52 |
| daxxar | you seem to have very nicely structured documentation (atleast for the broader concepts), assuming it's reliable. :-) | 13:55 |
| mithro | daxxar: i'm really going now - yes some of the documentation is pretty good - others not-so-good :) | 14:00 |
| daxxar | mithro: good night :) | 14:01 |
| daxxar | hmm. decisions, decisions. | 14:11 |
| daxxar | not certain wether i should propose a 3d client written in c++, or server code for tpserver-cpp. | 14:12 |
| daxxar | and if i go for code for tpserver-cpp, wether to implement research or a ruleset, or perhaps even protocol compliance tests. :) | 14:13 |
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| JLP | daxxar: just send in a couple of them, the ones that you think will bring you the most joy when working on them | 14:41 |
| daxxar | JLP: Can I submit multiple applications to a single project? :o | 14:44 |
| daxxar | I haven't written any 3d-code in .. years (?), so it's kinda tempting. | 14:44 |
| JLP | you mean multiple applicatons for Thousand Parsec? if so, then yes | 14:45 |
| daxxar | yeah, for TP. does the gsoc webform support that? someone claimed only the most recent application was sent to the mentors.. | 14:45 |
| JLP | hm, i think it should support this | 14:46 |
| daxxar | I *think* I'll submit one about a 3d client in c++, and one about a tpserver-cpp ruleset, but I'll have to research the ruleset-part a bit more. | 14:46 |
| JLP | great, can't wait for them :) | 14:46 |
| daxxar | :-D | 14:50 |
| daxxar | Hopefully I'll get 'em done today, but it seems I have some school-stuff to take care of first. :) | 14:51 |
| daxxar | Ah, finally, time to head home. Catch you later. :) | 15:01 |
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| cherez | hmm, that's odd | 15:25 |
| cherez | wx.__version__ doesn't exist | 15:25 |
| cherez | oh well, I know my version is recent enough, so I could just take that test out of the client | 15:47 |
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| cherez | the Python server move code is really weird... | 16:21 |
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| daxxar | okok, writing time. :-) | 18:42 |
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| clayasaurus | application updated, again :) | 19:43 |
| clayasaurus | just need to fix one small formatting error.. grr | 19:44 |
| daxxar | Ah, you're the python 3d guy? :) | 19:45 |
| clayasaurus | nm I can't, ah well | 19:45 |
| clayasaurus | yup :-P | 19:45 |
| daxxar | I'm your arch-nemesis, the c++ 3d guy. | 19:45 |
| daxxar | ;-) | 19:45 |
| clayasaurus | hehe, umm | 19:45 |
| clayasaurus | did you submit an app? | 19:46 |
| clayasaurus | using C++ for ogre 3d? | 19:46 |
| daxxar | Just about to, putting the finishing touches on it. | 19:46 |
| daxxar | Naw, I was planning on just using OGL/SDL | 19:46 |
| * clayasaurus is confused | 19:46 | |
| daxxar | Hm? | 19:47 |
| daxxar | What about? | 19:47 |
| clayasaurus | you are doing an app using raw OpenGL and SDL 3D thousand parsec client? | 19:47 |
| clayasaurus | or you are using a rendering engine | 19:47 |
| daxxar | I'm about to submit an application, proposing a raw OpenGL/SDL TP client, yes. :) | 19:47 |
| clayasaurus | hrm... alright. goodluck with that | 19:47 |
| clayasaurus | vector like graphics style perhaps? or will you write your own scenegraph + model loader + GUI system | 19:48 |
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| * dmpayton yawns | 19:49 | |
| dmpayton | Mornin' | 19:49 |
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| guitsaru | Morning | 19:49 |
| clayasaurus | morning, though it is afternoon for me | 19:50 |
| daxxar | clayasaurus: the latter, at least to an extent. I'm not certain how much use reinventing the wheel on something as typical as a model loader would be. ;-) | 19:50 |
| daxxar | clayasaurus: The reason I'm not proposing to use a specific framework is my lack of experience with any of them. | 19:51 |
| daxxar | But when you mention it, perhaps I should look into OGRE. I keep hearing good things about it. ;-p | 19:51 |
| clayasaurus | mithro: were you able to see the new 'schedule' I picked for myself? | 19:54 |
| dmpayton | clayasaurus: technically, it's afternoon for me aswell. | 19:56 |
| clayasaurus | ah, thought you were in a different time-zone | 19:57 |
| dmpayton | 1pm here. :) | 20:00 |
| clayasaurus | 3PM for me | 20:00 |
| dmpayton | Alright, I must be off. Work will be angry if I don't come in today | 20:04 |
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| cherez | I'm going to need some serious stimulants to make it through this week | 20:37 |
| daxxar | nash, JLP: submitted an application. =) | 21:01 |
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| clayasaurus | g2g | 21:03 |
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| * nash is back | 22:12 | |
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| * dmpayton putzes around at work | 22:24 | |
| nash | I've just arrived- no time for putzing yet | 22:28 |
| dmpayton | lol | 22:29 |
| dmpayton | nash, I updated my app, if you wanna take a look. | 22:29 |
| nash | dmpayton: Shall do shortly | 22:30 |
| dmpayton | Awesome | 22:30 |
| daxxar | dmpayton: I got mine finished \o/ | 22:32 |
| dmpayton | daxxar: Awesome, what project? 3D in c++? | 22:33 |
| daxxar | dmpayton: Yeah. A comment by clayasaurus made me reconsider it, and I delved into a bit of research about Ogre3d (3d), which led to CEGUI (2d, menus etc), which led to OIS (input). ;-) | 22:35 |
| dmpayton | daxxar: Haha, nice. Can't wait to see what happens. :) | 22:53 |
| daxxar | Same here, and good luck with your application. :-) | 22:54 |
| daxxar | Do you have any technical keywords on your implementation for me? :) | 22:54 |
| dmpayton | daxxar: What do you mean? | 23:07 |
| daxxar | Well, your proposal, I know it's a web app, but how did you present it? What're the technical pieces that'll make it go around? | 23:08 |
| dmpayton | Basically.. Lots of AJAX.. Gonna use the jQuery library for front-end JS and web.py to handle the back-end. | 23:10 |
| daxxar | Ok :) | 23:11 |
| dmpayton | I also discussed a bit about possible implementations of the star map (using JS to dynamically build the star map by placing star images in an iframe vs. using Python to dynamically build images) | 23:11 |
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| dmpayton | basically... JS = star images placed in an iframe with a neat space background, Python = star images + space background as the same image | 23:12 |
| dmpayton | I left the issue open, I'll study the pros and cons of each in the coming weeks | 23:13 |
| dmpayton | That's about as technical as I got | 23:13 |
| dmpayton | as the star map seems to be the most difficult part for the web client | 23:13 |
| daxxar | iframes? what about e.g. absolutely positioned divs? | 23:13 |
| dmpayton | Would work, except that all objects in the game (ie. stars, planets, ships) also need to be absolutely aligned, which then places them outside the div | 23:14 |
| dmpayton | In some experiments, an iframe seemed to be the best way to go. | 23:14 |
| daxxar | Okay, I have no doubts. I hope your application gets accepted. :-) | 23:15 |
| dmpayton | s/aligned/positioned | 23:17 |
| dmpayton | daxxar: How many other apps are you submitting? | 23:18 |
| daxxar | Not certain yet. I've got one other project/idea that I wanted to apply for, and perhaps another project at TP. But the 3d client thing really got my engine running. :) | 23:19 |
| daxxar | and you? | 23:19 |
| dmpayton | only one project for TP, and another for Creative Commons | 23:22 |
| clayasaurus | only 4 more days :o | 23:22 |
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| dmpayton | 'llo clayasaurus and mithro. | 23:23 |
| dmpayton | mithro: updated my app. :) | 23:24 |
| clayasaurus | howdy | 23:24 |
| daxxar | ey claya, mith. :-) | 23:24 |
| mithro | hello dmpayton | 23:25 |
| dmpayton | Huh... | 23:25 |
| dmpayton | Deadline's been extended to March 26 | 23:26 |
| mithro | it has? | 23:26 |
| clayasaurus | where did you find that out, dmpayton ? | 23:26 |
| dmpayton | lh just annoucned it in #summer-discuss. Gonna make an official blog about it. | 23:28 |
| mithro | dmpayton: where did you find this info? | 23:28 |
| dmpayton | mithro: <lh> changign to March 26 <dmpayton> lh: Student deadline is extended to March 26? <lh>dmpayton: yeppers | 23:30 |
| mithro | dmpayton: okay cool | 23:34 |
| mithro | must have just missed that | 23:34 |
| * nash waves to mithro | 23:40 | |
| t0dd | hey nash | 23:48 |
| nash | t0dd: | 23:48 |
| nash | How is life> | 23:48 |
| nash | BTW: I've commented on a few of the proposals again.. As usaul I've been fairly harsh - so don't take it personally | 23:49 |
| * daxxar runs crying out of the channel | 23:50 | |
| daxxar | Hm, perhaps I should check if I've got a comment first. | 23:50 |
| nash | Excellent 1 down... | 23:50 |
| nash | d'oh.. he is still her | 23:50 |
| nash | e | 23:50 |
| nash | :-) | 23:50 |
| daxxar | ;P | 23:50 |
| nash | daxxar: I haven't commented on yours yet... | 23:51 |
| daxxar | Phew. I'm untouched by the horrible Comment of Doom. \o/ | 23:51 |
| nash | Partially done | 23:51 |
| daxxar | :| | 23:51 |
| daxxar | Looking forward to it. ;) | 23:51 |
| dmpayton | nash: You're so mean! Why can't I just stamp the client with "Works On My Machine" and call it a day? :'( | 23:51 |
| nash | dmpayton: Sure... you'll need to give me your machine however... | 23:53 |
| t0dd | oh, life is good | 23:56 |
| t0dd | I just got up from a nap since I had to attend a review session early this morning and consequently didnt get much sleep because of it | 23:56 |
| dmpayton | t0dd: I want a nap. Went to bed at 6:30am lastnight (this morning?) to get up at 10 to come to work. :( | 23:57 |
| dmpayton | Well.. granted, I slept in till 12 or so. | 23:57 |
| dmpayton | Still not fun, however | 23:57 |
| mithro | Vincent Verhoeven == daxxar? | 23:58 |
| daxxar | No, that's not me. | 23:58 |
| daxxar | I'm Jørgen Tjernø. :) | 23:58 |
| dmpayton | daxxar: Your name always reminds me of the game Daxxter and Jack. | 23:59 |
| daxxar | Never heard that one before. :p | 23:59 |
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