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| llnz | bbl | 03:37 |
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| mithro | howdy | 03:38 |
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| dmpayton | 'lli mithro. | 03:48 |
| dmpayton | 'llo even | 03:49 |
| mithro | how goes your application? | 03:49 |
| dmpayton | Havn't started it yet. Well, not the written portion, anyways. Been working on a little proof of concept application. | 03:50 |
| dmpayton | Since you're on, I'm gonna fire off some questions | 03:51 |
| dmpayton | or rather...get your input on a few things | 03:51 |
| mithro | sure! | 03:53 |
| dmpayton | I've decided (for certain, now) that I'm going to apply for the web client. I am correct to assume that this is to be hosted by TP for people to use, not necessarily (though it will be possible) for them to install it on their own servers, yes? | 03:54 |
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| mithro | dmpayton: yes | 03:58 |
| dmpayton | Okay. | 03:58 |
| mithro | btw as I encouraged clayasaurus, if you want apply multiple times with different ideas | 03:58 |
| dmpayton | Yeah, I saw that post. I'd really love to work on a 3d client, but I have little experience in 3d, and I doubt I'de be able to finish it within the scope of the project. | 03:59 |
| dmpayton | Speaking of the 3d client, where can I download the pyogre client? I didn't see it on the downloads page. | 04:00 |
| mithro | dmpayton: if you know your limitations and only think you can do XYZ (where XYZ is a significant goal) | 04:00 |
| dmpayton | Alright. Maybe I'll give it a shot, then. | 04:01 |
| dmpayton | In anycase, for the web client... I was thinking of doing something like Google Maps for the the starfield (drag it around, zoom, etc), and I have questions about the possible implimentation | 04:03 |
| mithro | dmpayton: "I would highly encourage you to put in multiple applications if there are more then one thing you want to do. (IE Submit one for the tpserver-cpp DBMS support and one for a Java MIDP client)." | 04:04 |
| mithro | from my reply to Iwanowitch | 04:04 |
| mithro | on a side note, the more applications we get the more likely we will get more students | 04:05 |
| dmpayton | Alright. I'll see what I can come up with as far as a 3d client goes. I'd either use PyOgre or Panda3d, both of which have python bindings | 04:05 |
| dmpayton | In anycase, this entire project is supposed to be OS, and GMaps isn't. Would that matter, since I'd just be using the API (which they allow free use of)? Or is this something I should ask Google? | 04:07 |
| mithro | dmpayton: it would be a little bit of a problem | 04:10 |
| mithro | we would very much prefer a free implimentation | 04:10 |
| mithro | i belive there are a few OSS projects working to clone it | 04:10 |
| dmpayton | Hmm. | 04:11 |
| dmpayton | ka-map looks interesting | 04:11 |
| dmpayton | http://ka-map.maptools.org | 04:12 |
| tpb | Title: ka-Map.MapTools.org (at ka-map.maptools.org) | 04:12 |
| mithro | http://ka-map.maptools.org/ | 04:12 |
| tpb | Title: ka-Map.MapTools.org (at ka-map.maptools.org) | 04:12 |
| mithro | opps you got there first :) | 04:12 |
| mithro | i've seen others too | 04:13 |
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| mithro | http://freshmeat.net/search/?q=web+map§ion=projects&Go.x=0&Go.y=0 | 04:14 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/JxR> (at freshmeat.net) | 04:14 |
| mithro | or convice google to open source GMaps ;) | 04:15 |
| mithro | http://mapguide.osgeo.org/ | 04:16 |
| mithro | ? | 04:16 |
| tpb | Title: MapGuide Project Home | MapGuide Open Source (at mapguide.osgeo.org) | 04:16 |
| dmpayton | Haha. Okay, I'll shoot an email to Larry and Sergey right now. | 04:16 |
| dmpayton | Well, what I've been working on today could possibly stand alone without any other mapping service/API | 04:17 |
| mithro | dmpayton: thats cool | 04:17 |
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| dmpayton | Right now, all it does is dynamically place stars in 1000x1000 field. with a 300x300 iframe, and you have to scroll using scrollbars on the sides. I'm working on the grabbing and dragging part now. | 04:19 |
| dmpayton | Also, where can I get the PyOgre client? | 04:19 |
| dmpayton | Btw, that starfield uses the jQuery library, which is dual GPL/MIT license. | 04:20 |
| mithro | tpclient-pyogre | 04:20 |
| mithro | dmpayton: thats fine | 04:20 |
| mithro | http://darcs.thousandparsec.net/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi?r=tpclient-pyogre;a=summary | 04:21 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/Jx_> (at darcs.thousandparsec.net) | 04:21 |
| mithro | tpclient-pyogre | 04:22 |
| mithro | 908 (92%) | 04:22 |
| mithro | it's not very big | 04:22 |
| dmpayton | Ah, okay | 04:22 |
| dmpayton | Does it function on any level, aside from showing a login screen and a few stars? | 04:23 |
| mithro | it shows the universe and scroll around | 04:23 |
| mithro | and probably suffered a huge amount of bitrot | 04:23 |
| mithro | be back in 10 | 04:24 |
| dmpayton | kk | 04:25 |
| mithro | back | 04:37 |
| dmpayton | Wb. | 04:38 |
| * dmpayton is downloading darcs | 04:38 | |
| dmpayton | What version of Python do you use for your development? | 04:39 |
| mithro | python2.5 (default with feisty) when was on edgy/dapper used 2.4 | 04:41 |
| mithro | basically what ever is installed | 04:41 |
| dmpayton | back in a few | 04:44 |
| jotham | i still use 2.4 | 05:00 |
| jotham | but pygame + win32 isn't ready for 2.5 yet | 05:00 |
| jotham | so i'm in no rush | 05:00 |
| dmpayton | jotham: Yeah, what's the deal with Pygame? 1.8 was supposed to be released in December. | 05:33 |
| dmpayton | Now it's March, and the only update is when they edited the original anouncement in January to say "Need a few more weeks" | 05:34 |
| mithro | dmpayton: the problem is that there is not core leader pushing it through | 05:35 |
| dmpayton | Oh yeah? Do you know what happened to the original developer? | 05:38 |
| mithro | got very busy | 05:40 |
| jotham | 'supposed to be released'? | 05:42 |
| jotham | it's an open source project | 05:42 |
| jotham | =p | 05:42 |
| jotham | also 1.7 is fine | 05:42 |
| jotham | so there isn't much motivation | 05:42 |
| jotham | what i'd like to see is a C++ wrapper for libsdl that carrys pygames features over | 05:43 |
| dmpayton | jotham: Yeah, 'was supposed to be released' | 05:43 |
| jotham | yeah but that's such a vapid statement in the world of minority OSS projects | 05:43 |
| dmpayton | "Pygame 1.8 will be released 2006/12/22" from the pygame homepage...Open Source or not, you don't set a release date if you don't plan on following through. | 05:44 |
| jotham | but lots of projects do just that | 05:44 |
| * jotham shrugs | 05:44 | |
| jotham | they are up to RC3 so it's not going so badly ;) | 05:45 |
| jotham | anyway i have to go cook dinner, bbiab | 05:46 |
| dmpayton | I don't mean to be all bitchy about it, but I would think that after three months they would post some news about it. | 05:46 |
| dmpayton | Mmm, food. Have fun. | 05:46 |
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| dmpayton | mithro: What are designs in TP? | 06:23 |
| mithro | IE blueprints | 06:24 |
| dmpayton | as in, for ships? | 06:24 |
| mithro | not just ships, MTSec you can also have blueprints for torpedos and missiles | 06:26 |
| dmpayton | Oohhh... I see it. I just went into the pywx client to see what that was about, and realized the design window was hidden behind the others. | 06:27 |
| dmpayton | mithro: Any reason that ship designs are listed 11 times each? | 06:28 |
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| mithro | yes, each player has their own designs | 06:29 |
| dmpayton | So you can view their designs? | 06:29 |
| mithro | yes | 06:33 |
| dmpayton | I"m a little confused on how to control my fleet. | 06:33 |
| mithro | create a move order | 06:33 |
| mithro | then click the little P button | 06:33 |
| dmpayton | Hmm... | 06:38 |
| mithro | then click on the starmap to make it go somewhere | 06:39 |
| mithro | very un user-friendly i know :) | 06:39 |
| dmpayton | heh | 06:40 |
| dmpayton | Hopefully I can resolve that with another client. | 06:40 |
| dmpayton | Where did you get the star models for the pyogre client? | 06:41 |
| dmpayton | Currently, do all objects have XYZ coords and are only rendered on an XY plane, or does everything have Z as 0? | 06:46 |
| dmpayton | Hmm.. cmd isn't recognizing 'python' as an internal or external command, but it runs fine when I go through start->run | 06:58 |
| dmpayton | mithro: any plans for in-game messenging? | 07:04 |
| dmpayton | mithro: For the star field, I was thinking of having the server return an XML file with all the objects and information that will be parsed and used to dynamically build the star field. How hard would it be do do this using libtpproto-py? (I'm sorry, I havn't looked at how it returns the information yet) | 07:56 |
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| llnz | hi | 08:27 |
| mithro | dmpayton: sorry went to dinner | 08:35 |
| mithro | dmpayton: You probably would want to use libtpclient-py which adds in a bunch of caching and stuff | 08:35 |
| dmpayton | Err, yeah | 08:36 |
| dmpayton | And wb. | 08:36 |
| dmpayton | and hi llnz :) | 08:37 |
| mithro | http://www.thousandparsec.net/tp/dev/documents/python/dev/python-tp-doc/ | 08:39 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/JyA> (at www.thousandparsec.net) | 08:39 |
| mithro | that might help? | 08:39 |
| mithro | it shouldn't be to hard to do your XML idea | 08:42 |
| mithro | dmpayton: the message board system could be used for ingame messaging | 08:42 |
| mithro | dmpayton: hopefully when I finish the starmap rewrite, it will be much easier | 08:42 |
| dmpayton | I'm not sure how much code you want home-rolled, but I'd like to use web.py (public domain license) to handle the server-side stuff. | 08:46 |
| dmpayton | i'm not sure how much more open source you can get than public domain. :P | 08:46 |
| dmpayton | I noticed the X,Y coordinates of each system is huge (hundreds of millions)...I'm guessing that's because this is space and each unit is meant to be approximately 1 mile/kilometer? | 08:52 |
| mithro | i forget the units | 08:53 |
| mithro | i think it's 10,000 kilometers | 08:53 |
| llnz | yeah, about 10000 km | 08:53 |
| llnz | so in theory signed 64 bit int is about 1/3 of the real universe size (big bang light distance) | 08:54 |
| dmpayton | Crazy. | 08:55 |
| dmpayton | You guys ever heard of StarKingdoms? | 08:55 |
| llnz | nope | 08:56 |
| dmpayton | it's a web based 4X type of game | 08:56 |
| * llnz thinks we will redefine the unit size to about 1000 km some time, or leave it up to each game | 08:56 | |
| dmpayton | In all honesty, it's the only 4X game I've ever played untless StarCraft counts. | 08:57 |
| dmpayton | unless even | 08:57 |
| dmpayton | http://www.starkingdoms.com | 08:58 |
| tpb | Title: Star Kingdoms - A Free Online Game (at www.starkingdoms.com) | 08:58 |
| dmpayton | Used to be a lot better...not it's bogged down with ads. | 08:58 |
| dmpayton | now even | 08:59 |
| mithro | i'll look at it later, have to go now | 08:59 |
| dmpayton | later mithro | 09:00 |
| llnz | cya mithro | 09:00 |
| * llnz ponders | 09:34 | |
| dmpayton | Hmm... | 09:58 |
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| CIA-20 | Lee Begg <[email protected]> * tpserver-cpp/modules/games/minisec/ (build.cpp build.cpp build.cpp): | 10:48 |
| CIA-20 | Fail adding or probing design order if no valid ships in fleet: | 10:48 |
| CIA-20 | Because of the way tpclient-pywx works (and probing, etc), if the fleettype list is | 10:48 |
| CIA-20 | empty, then it's still valid. If there is something in the fleet type list, then | 10:48 |
| CIA-20 | there had better be more than one ship. Zero ships are allowed, if there is atleast | 10:48 |
| CIA-20 | one with at least one. | 10:48 |
| dmpayton | I hate this. | 11:15 |
| dmpayton | Why do I have to be human? | 11:15 |
| dmpayton | Stupid humans and their need for sleep... | 11:16 |
| * dmpayton out | 11:16 | |
| JLP | ahoy all | 11:43 |
| llnz | hi JLP | 11:47 |
| mithro | howdy | 11:49 |
| llnz | mithro: are you going to update the metaserver? | 11:55 |
| mithro | not in the near future | 11:56 |
| llnz | not even to what is documented in protocol4.php? | 11:56 |
| llnz | in particular the parameters which have changed names | 11:57 |
| mithro | it needs quite a bit of work | 11:57 |
| llnz | ok then... | 11:58 |
| llnz | can you make it accept either name or ln, and turn or next? | 11:58 |
| mithro | llnz: i believe you know PHP ;) | 12:00 |
| llnz | damn.... thought i had got away with that.... | 12:00 |
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| mithro | hello clayasaurus | 12:04 |
| JLP | clayasaurus: ahoy | 12:04 |
| clayasaurus | hey JLP and mithro | 12:05 |
| llnz | hi clayasaurus | 12:09 |
| clayasaurus | hi llnz | 12:09 |
| clayasaurus | up early workin' on applications :-P Don't have an incredible amount of day time to work on em' | 12:11 |
| llnz | mithro: i've made the minimal changes need, i hope | 12:19 |
| llnz | should i just push them? | 12:20 |
| llnz | 6 lines changed, 10 lines added | 12:21 |
| llnz | supports what tpserver-cpp currently does, and what it's about to do (and my local tpserver-cpp is doing already, waiting for the metaserver to be updated) | 12:22 |
| mithro | the metaserver is a checkout of the repo | 12:27 |
| mithro | you have to go do a manual pull | 12:27 |
| llnz | ok, should i do it now or tomorrow? | 12:28 |
| mithro | up to you | 12:28 |
| llnz | i'll do it tomorrow when i'm more awake | 12:28 |
| * llnz wanders off | 12:28 | |
| llnz | later all | 12:28 |
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| mithro | dmpayton: i checked out the Star Empires game thing | 12:39 |
| dmpayton | StarKingdoms. :P | 12:40 |
| dmpayton | What'd you think? | 12:40 |
| mithro | it looked okay - I would have liked a little bit more graphics - IE a starmap | 12:41 |
| dmpayton | Yeah, the fact that it's purely text-based and all the ads are it's only downfalls | 12:41 |
| dmpayton | Did you sign up? | 12:41 |
| mithro | yes | 12:42 |
| mithro | just to see what the UI and stuff was like - I have to admit I don't care for the different rooms mentality | 12:42 |
| mithro | it reminds me of a bunch of similar games a friend use to play - they where fantasy however | 12:43 |
| dmpayton | Hmm | 12:46 |
| dmpayton | If you wanna look me up, I'm Psilocybic Death in sector 1:35 | 12:47 |
| mithro | i'm "Cookie" :) | 12:47 |
| dmpayton | Doesn't sound like you're interested in playing, though | 12:47 |
| dmpayton | Nice. What sector? | 12:47 |
| mithro | Server 1: Cookie (1:3) | 12:48 |
| dmpayton | Cool. You're in my sister alliance | 12:48 |
| mithro | Name: President Monster | 12:49 |
| mithro | :) | 12:49 |
| dmpayton | Haha | 12:49 |
| dmpayton | I'm Psilocybic Death...Lord Shroom | 12:49 |
| dmpayton | psilocybs = hallucinogenic mushrooms | 12:49 |
| mithro | Forceful Knight (1:3) seems to be well liked in this sector | 12:50 |
| mithro | i don't really have the time to play | 12:52 |
| mithro | to many other things to do | 12:53 |
| dmpayton | So have any other potential students shown up? | 12:56 |
| dmpayton | Besides clayasaurus and myself | 12:56 |
| mithro | daxxar as well | 12:58 |
| mithro | plus Iwanowitch on the forums | 12:59 |
| dmpayton | Any good proposals? | 12:59 |
| mithro | no submitted items yet, some ideas floating around the lists | 12:59 |
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| dmpayton | I may only end up submitting one to TP. | 13:00 |
| mithro | okay | 13:00 |
| mithro | dmpayton: hopefully we'll get a few more applications then just you 5 | 13:01 |
| dmpayton | Yeah, hopefully. TP has a lot of potential. | 13:01 |
| dmpayton | Could be really fun if you had a kickass 3d client. | 13:02 |
| mithro | dmpayton: yeah, time just goes by so fast :/ | 13:02 |
| dmpayton | I know how that goes. | 13:03 |
| clayasaurus | hrm... I wonder if everyone is going to submit the 3D client app now | 13:04 |
| * clayasaurus ponders | 13:04 | |
| mithro | i think dmpayton is doing the web client? | 13:04 |
| dmpayton | Yep, web client. | 13:05 |
| clayasaurus | oh, alright :) | 13:05 |
| dmpayton | python back-end using web.py, fancy javascript in the front with jQuery. | 13:05 |
| clayasaurus | sweet | 13:05 |
| mithro | dmpayton: i think a web client has a lot of potential | 13:05 |
| mithro | anyway I must head to bed | 13:05 |
| dmpayton | Gnight mithro. | 13:06 |
| mithro | btw the more students we get apply, the more students we are likely to get accept, so pimp to other people too :P | 13:06 |
| clayasaurus | gnight | 13:06 |
| dmpayton | what about you, clayasaurus? | 13:06 |
| clayasaurus | for application ideas? I have 3 I want to submit, well, that's if I even have time to write them all | 13:07 |
| clayasaurus | 1) 3D client | 13:07 |
| dmpayton | All for TP? | 13:07 |
| clayasaurus | 2) Improve wxPython client | 13:07 |
| clayasaurus | 3) Diplomacy ruleset | 13:07 |
| clayasaurus | yea | 13:07 |
| clayasaurus | i might not submit all 3, who knows, but will try | 13:07 |
| dmpayton | I'd go for 3d client...if we had that, then the wxpython client wouldn't even really be needed. | 13:07 |
| clayasaurus | and then I want to submit one at least for the apache foundation | 13:07 |
| clayasaurus | :-P as long as everyone has a nice CPU | 13:08 |
| mithro | and I could get back to doing server work | 13:08 |
| dmpayton | If they don't, then they could just as easily use the web client. :P | 13:08 |
| clayasaurus | :-) | 13:08 |
| clayasaurus | Then I'm trying to figure out whether Ogre3D or Panda3D is best | 13:09 |
| dmpayton | Yeah, the ogre vs panda thing has been an iddue for me, too. | 13:09 |
| clayasaurus | for tp? or another project | 13:09 |
| dmpayton | I've toyed with both...both have their pros and cons | 13:09 |
| mithro | two big things to look at | 13:09 |
| dmpayton | issue = issue* | 13:09 |
| mithro | 1. easy of install for users | 13:09 |
| dmpayton | iddue | 13:09 |
| dmpayton | blah | 13:09 |
| mithro | 2. GUI | 13:09 |
| mithro | writing GUI engines suck :) | 13:10 |
| dmpayton | well, pyogre is nice because it can share the same window with pygame...so use ogre for 3d and pygame for the gui | 13:10 |
| dmpayton | however | 13:10 |
| dmpayton | UI in panda isn't much harder | 13:11 |
| dmpayton | so... | 13:11 |
| mithro | dmpayton: pyogre also wraps the complete CEGUI | 13:12 |
| mithro | which is useful as it's a true 3d gui | 13:12 |
| mithro | anyway I'm really going now | 13:12 |
| dmpayton | I've never used cegui | 13:12 |
| dmpayton | later mith | 13:12 |
| dmpayton | ro | 13:12 |
| dmpayton | stupid tab | 13:12 |
| clayasaurus | byebye | 13:13 |
| clayasaurus | so hrm... Panda /looks/ like it is designed to be 'rapid dev' plus designed for python from the onset as well | 13:13 |
| clayasaurus | but Ogre3D will definetely 'work', so to say | 13:13 |
| dmpayton | Yeah | 13:14 |
| dmpayton | The only thing with Panda is that I don't know how development is going | 13:14 |
| dmpayton | I mean... | 13:14 |
| dmpayton | it was made by disney | 13:14 |
| dmpayton | but then CM took it over and tweaked it | 13:14 |
| dmpayton | they got it working for what they need and development seems to have slowed since then | 13:15 |
| dmpayton | "Works for what we need, kbye" | 13:15 |
| clayasaurus | plus there is already work done on Ogre3D for TP | 13:16 |
| clayasaurus | i prob will only have time to submit 1 app for tp, 2 if lucky :-P are you applying anywhere else, dmpayton ? | 13:17 |
| dmpayton | Yep. Creative Commons and Python Foundation | 13:18 |
| clayasaurus | sweet | 13:18 |
| dmpayton | Those two projects are the same thing, but can be applied to either one | 13:18 |
| dmpayton | so I figure submit to both and see what happens | 13:19 |
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| JLP | cherez: hello | 17:49 |
| cherez | 'lo | 17:49 |
| JLP | cherez: are you here because of the googl summer of code? | 17:50 |
| cherez | basically | 17:50 |
| JLP | cherez: great to hear | 17:50 |
| cherez | thought this would be a good place to ask for ideas | 17:50 |
| cherez | I'm surprised TP got to be a mentor | 17:50 |
| cherez | I didn't think they'd accept a game as a SoC project | 17:50 |
| JLP | cherez: yeah we were also quite surprised | 17:50 |
| JLP | maybe they are also starting to see that gaming is also an important part of open source software :) | 17:51 |
| cherez | ya, I think it's a great way to get people interested in open source projects | 17:52 |
| cherez | especially once TP is blowing away every other 4X game:-) | 17:52 |
| JLP | yup one of the more fun way to get started in open source | 17:52 |
| JLP | btw where are you from? | 17:53 |
| cherez | Missouri | 17:53 |
| JLP | i'm from Slovenia (small country in Europe) | 17:53 |
| cherez | that's interesting to know | 17:55 |
| JLP | any specific idea for TP@SoC cought your eye? or do you maybe have a fresh new idea? | 17:55 |
| cherez | quite a few have me interested, but I'm not set on one yet | 17:56 |
| cherez | are there any projects the devs would really like to see undertaken? | 17:56 |
| JLP | well you can submit more then one application for the project | 17:56 |
| cherez | ya, up to 20 | 17:57 |
| JLP | it increases your chance to get selected and it makes out project get more slots for students :) | 17:57 |
| cherez | I could apply for all the projects and some more | 17:57 |
| cherez | how many people have shown interest so far? | 17:57 |
| JLP | if I had to decide which one would be the most important would be to implement MTSec games in one of the servers | 17:58 |
| JLP | MiniSec is not very interesting to play and MTSec is quite a bit more complex | 17:58 |
| cherez | what exactly is it? | 17:59 |
| JLP | interested people that contacted us here on IRC include dmpayton, clayasaurus and daxxar, there were also a couple of people who wrote to Forums | 18:01 |
| daxxar | =) | 18:01 |
| clayasaurus | howdy | 18:02 |
| JLP | as for MTSec, take a look here: http://www.thousandparsec.net/tp/dev/documents/mtsec.php | 18:02 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/JsQ> (at www.thousandparsec.net) | 18:02 |
| cherez | I'm reading it | 18:02 |
| JLP | great | 18:02 |
| dmpayton | 'llo | 18:02 |
| daxxar | howdy all. =) | 18:03 |
| cherez | Argonauts? | 18:03 |
| cherez | that's an odd name | 18:03 |
| JLP | cherez: yeah a bit odd, you should probably blame mithro for it :) | 18:04 |
| cherez | a space station named after mythical sailors | 18:05 |
| cherez | I think I'd like to work on mtsec | 18:08 |
| cherez | has anyone else tried to make a proposal to do it? | 18:08 |
| JLP | cherez: i don't think so, as far as i know so far web client and 3D client are one of applications that we are most likely to get | 18:10 |
| JLP | so mtsec should still be free | 18:10 |
| cherez | alright, I guess I better write a proposal for it | 18:10 |
| cherez | 3D client was one I was looking for, but I think mtsec sounds even more fun to write | 18:11 |
| cherez | now to make myself sound like the Stephen Hawking of computing | 18:12 |
| JLP | alright, but remeber you can also send both, and i'm sure we can later work it out with others on how to distribute tasks so that everyone is happy about it :) | 18:13 |
| cherez | ya, I was also itneresting in the race designer | 18:13 |
| cherez | would that be the races designed by whoever runs the server? | 18:13 |
| JLP | yeah race and components designer would also be very usefull | 18:13 |
| cherez | components designer? | 18:14 |
| JLP | yeah like designs for spaceships, weapons and stuff like this | 18:14 |
| cherez | ahh | 18:15 |
| cherez | would this all be done server side? | 18:15 |
| JLP | for example, every server can have diifferent game rules, and there could be different space ship designs and stuff like that, but it is much nicer to make the designs in GUI then write it in XML or something similar | 18:16 |
| cherez | ya | 18:16 |
| cherez | it would be interesting to make a client side race designer | 18:16 |
| cherez | so every player could make their own race | 18:16 |
| cherez | but that would be hard to balance | 18:17 |
| JLP | i guess that in the future players can design their own ships (using the designer), then a player would upload their own designs to server and in this way they would also be available to other players | 18:17 |
| cherez | it would take a lot of work to ensure the rules couldn't be abused to make an overpowered race | 18:17 |
| cherez | that reminds me of Alpha Centauri | 18:17 |
| cherez | granted, that's getting ahead of ourselves | 18:18 |
| cherez | now how to make myself sound good for the application... | 18:18 |
| JLP | yeah it is possible to design somethng very powerfull, but then again it is a chalange to come up with a way to limit this, you just can't have it all | 18:18 |
| JLP | i'm not sure if mithor or lee already have something in mind about how to limit things | 18:19 |
| JLP | but for ships i guess it is similar to this bigger ship, more powerfull, but slower to move, slower to turn, easier to target | 18:20 |
| cherez | I guess that should wait until the server race designer is done | 18:20 |
| cherez | ya | 18:20 |
| JLP | but first it would be nice to have the designer and i guess the power tweaking could come later | 18:20 |
| cherez | off hand, I would think buying power/mobility would incur a cost that is represented in the cost of the ship | 18:21 |
| JLP | yeah that also and time to build the thing | 18:21 |
| dmpayton | I would think that the reace designer would be a stand-alone app, so that both server admins and users could use it... Seems kind of redundant and repetitive to have it both in the client and part of the server | 18:22 |
| cherez | or time to build also a function of cost | 18:22 |
| cherez | really, any 3 could be a function of the 4th | 18:22 |
| JLP | dmpayton: yeah i think the same, best to be a separate app | 18:22 |
| dmpayton | Same with the ship designer in the current pywx client... | 18:23 |
| cherez | then you just have to modify the server and client to allow submitting races | 18:23 |
| dmpayton | I'm thinking of leaving the designer out in my proposal...maybe making it a seperate web app to be completed at a later date (after soc) | 18:23 |
| dmpayton | But this si something that needs to be discussed with mithro and llnz | 18:24 |
| dmpayton | is even | 18:24 |
| clayasaurus | ya, i'm writing a app for a 3d client now, trying to get done soon : ) | 18:24 |
| dmpayton | clayasaurus: you have any experience in modeling? | 18:24 |
| JLP | cherez: yup, races are comming in later protocol versions, but ship/weapon designs are already in current version of protocol, so I think that if servers/clients support it it can already be done | 18:24 |
| cherez | now, how to make myself sound like God's gift to 4X, and make God sound like a spoiling grandparent | 18:25 |
| clayasaurus | dmpayton: none besides modelling my house in red faction and some unreal tournament level design | 18:25 |
| JLP | dmpayton: yup best to discuss with mithro and lee, they are the leaders who make decissions where TP should go :) | 18:25 |
| clayasaurus | dmpayton: I'm assuming I'll be coding though (which I have experience in), not 3d modelling. there are enough free ones out there i think . . . | 18:26 |
| dmpayton | clayasaurus: heh, that's more than me. That's the reason why I'm not more into 3D programming...I lack the modeling knowledge/skills/experience and no one wants to model for free. | 18:26 |
| clayasaurus | hrm... | 18:26 |
| dmpayton | clayasaurus: yeah, you could easily use the ones in the current pyogre client | 18:26 |
| JLP | cherez: don't try to sound like God, be yourself, write about what you intend to do and add estimated time for each thing you intend to deliver as part of the taks | 18:27 |
| clayasaurus | g2g eat. bbl. | 18:27 |
| dmpayton | Lates. | 18:27 |
| JLP | cherez: and be sure to take a look at recommendations for proposals and maybe some others at other projects, some also provide examples of good applications | 18:27 |
| JLP | clayasaurus: bon apetit | 18:28 |
| * dmpayton really wishes he could do 2 soc projects | 18:28 | |
| cherez | I'm most worried that I'll get turned down for not having done much for OS projects or sounding too young | 18:29 |
| dmpayton | cherez: How old are you and what's your programming experience, if you don't mind me asking? | 18:29 |
| cherez | well, I'm 18, college freshman | 18:30 |
| cherez | a bit worried that those who've been around longer will come across as more reliable | 18:30 |
| JLP | cherez: and remember SoC is not only about being the best programmer there is, i see it more as a thing to get young people interested into open source programming and to show them how to start learning more about it and how to participate in open source projects | 18:30 |
| cherez | that's a good point | 18:31 |
| JLP | cherez: for me it is already a big plus that you have come here to our IRC channel and started to communicate with project members | 18:31 |
| cherez | I've only done small patches for OS programs, I also tried to help startup projects which ended up dying off | 18:31 |
| dmpayton | cherez: Don't worry about it. I'm 19, college freshman (should be almost a junior, but I putzed around for a while). Besides, it's not about what you know (though knowing helps), it's about the experience. | 18:31 |
| cherez | I could always write 6 years of C++ experience and 5 years of Python | 18:33 |
| cherez | anyone here remember the Alky project? It was big news for like a week last year | 18:33 |
| JLP | cherez: and if you submit the application now, mentors will help you and adise on how to improve it | 18:33 |
| * JLP googles for Alky project | 18:34 | |
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| cherez | it might be hard to find now | 18:34 |
| cherez | the main dev just disappeared one day | 18:34 |
| cherez | all the regulars were banned from the channel, the forum, main page, and wiki went down | 18:35 |
| dmpayton_ | Bah...did my sends get through? | 18:35 |
| dmpayton_ | cherez: what project is this? | 18:35 |
| cherez | it was similar to wine, but it produced stand alone executables instead of running the original in a compatability layer | 18:36 |
| JLP | http://code.google.com/p/alkyproject/ ? | 18:37 |
| tpb | Title: alkyproject - Google Code (at code.google.com) | 18:37 |
| cherez | that would be it | 18:37 |
| dmpayton_ | Why'd this happen? | 18:37 |
| cherez | the main devs wanted to start totally over implementing the newer MS APIs and not focusing on working with older apps | 18:38 |
| cherez | kind of like Cedega in that sense | 18:38 |
| cherez | I wanted to make it work with WINE's libraries too as an alternative to having to run the wineserver | 18:38 |
| cherez | I was the one who wrote the Linux port | 18:39 |
| cherez | so the Alkynator (the program to convert PEs to elfs) could produce runnable Linux executables | 18:39 |
| cherez | several months later the main dev reappeared and has closed and renamed the prroject | 18:40 |
| JLP | so it is now Falling Leaf Systems | 18:42 |
| cherez | right | 18:42 |
| cherez | I still have the original source code under GPL | 18:42 |
| dmpayton_ | for a second I read that as "Failing Leaf..." | 18:42 |
| cherez | so I suppose I could fork it if I wanted to | 18:42 |
| JLP | :) | 18:42 |
| cherez | or just give the Alkynator to WINE | 18:43 |
| cherez | it's a pretty sweet tool unto itself | 18:43 |
| cherez | so ya, my open source history isn't so impressive | 18:44 |
| JLP | yeah maybe helping Wine with it wouland't be that bad, if it saves the code and makes it live again that would be good | 18:44 |
| JLP | cherez: well we all have to start somewhere, my open source acreer is probably even les stellar :) | 18:44 |
| cherez | care to share? | 18:45 |
| dmpayton_ | cherez: don't worry, soc is my first true experience wtih OS. | 18:45 |
| JLP | i just submited a couple of patches to KDE, and working on Parsek, a KDE4 based clients for Thousand Parsec is my first bigger OSS projects | 18:45 |
| cherez | at least KDE didn't disappear then reappear as commercial software a few weeks after your patches:-) | 18:46 |
| JLP | that's as far as programming goes, but otherwise i do a lot of translation work into Slovenian and a lot of beta testing of various Linux distros and apps | 18:46 |
| cherez | what will I need to know to write mtsec? | 18:47 |
| JLP | cherez: i guess you will need all that info about what MTSec is, all parameters about it, then look at the server (I guess you are going with C++ server) and see how current game MiniSec is implemneted | 18:49 |
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| JLP | If I'm not wrong some parts of the MTSec are also already implemnted in C++ server, so you then just expand this | 18:49 |
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| JLP | cherez: lee begg (llnz) should have more detaild info about this | 18:52 |
| dmpayton | JLP: You're mentoring, yes? | 18:54 |
| JLP | he's from new zeland though, and will be on irc in a couple of hours, so maybe it would be best to write about your intentions about MTSec on Forums/maling list and ask there for more information | 18:55 |
| JLP | dmpayton: yeah i'm also one of the mentors | 18:56 |
| JLP | dmpayton: mithro and llnz are main mentors, and nash and me are more like backup mentors | 18:56 |
| dmpayton | anything specific ou're looking for? or interested in seeing done? | 18:57 |
| dmpayton | you're* | 18:57 |
| JLP | dmpayton: what i'm waiting the most is the new protocol version TP04, which will enable some cool new things, but this is not one of the thngs that qualify as coding for SoC | 18:58 |
| JLP | also it is best that when it comes to creating new protocol more people work together and this is also against SoC rules | 18:59 |
| JLP | other then that I would very much like to see more complex games implemented, that are possible with current TP03, like MTSec | 18:59 |
| dmpayton | MTSec would be cool... I really wish I was more experienced in programming to work on a larger project. | 19:00 |
| JLP | 3D and web clients are right after MTSec on my wishlist | 19:00 |
| JLP | oh yeah and Race/component designers right after that | 19:01 |
| dmpayton | The only languages I'm well-versed in are PHP and JS, so I wouldn't be much use on either the 3D or MTSec projects. Even the web client will be a bit of a challenge, I'm sure, because I have little experience in Python | 19:02 |
| JLP | the only one i know reasonably well is C++ (with Qt toolkit for GUI programming), and even here I'm very much in the learnining mode and Prasek kclient is my learning ground | 19:04 |
| JLP | but Thousand Parsec tries to be as broad foundation as possible so that anyone can help no matter what language they know | 19:05 |
| dmpayton | Personally, if I were going to create a stand-alone client, I'd use Python with the XUL bindings. | 19:06 |
| dmpayton | XUL is great for me as a web developer, because it's basically coding HTML for the desktop... It's an XML-style UI language with support for CSS and JS. | 19:07 |
| dmpayton | It can even be used in web development, as long as you're using a mozilla browser | 19:08 |
| JLP | dmpayton: Firefox and other Mozilla apps are using it, right? | 19:08 |
| dmpayton | yep | 19:08 |
| dmpayton | FF and Thunderbird are written using nothing but XUL, Javascript, and the Gecko engine. | 19:08 |
| JLP | I've been to some lecture by Brian Green here in Slovenia | 19:08 |
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| dmpayton | 'llo tuna-fish | 19:09 |
| JLP | http://web.zen.si/archives/2007/03/spletne-urice-49-the-firefox-desktop/ | 19:10 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/JzF> (at web.zen.si) | 19:10 |
| JLP | and Brian also wrote some introduction to XUL for a Slovenian computer magazine, so that0s where I first heard more about it | 19:11 |
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| dmpayton | Too bad that's not in English. | 19:14 |
| JLP | i'm sure there is something similar in English available :) | 19:19 |
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| cherez | sorry about that | 19:32 |
| cherez | my keyboard went insane | 19:32 |
| JLP | cherez: no problem, these things happen | 19:32 |
| cherez | now to list project contributions... | 19:48 |
| clayasaurus | :-p | 20:24 |
| clayasaurus | off topic: my parents are baby sitting a dog that looks like this http://www.petsplace.co.za/Pekingese%20Jimbo%20&%20Patch.jpg | 20:25 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/JzM> (at www.petsplace.co.za) | 20:25 |
| clayasaurus | it's afraid of the cat :-P | 20:26 |
| * clayasaurus goes back to application | 20:26 | |
| dmpayton | clayasaurus: rofl | 20:26 |
| dmpayton | on another off-topic..erm..topic... Guitar Hero II for the 360 is slated for April 3rd. WOO!! | 20:26 |
| dmpayton | And with that, I must reboot. | 20:27 |
| * clayasaurus is totally out of the console loop | 20:27 | |
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| dmpayton | Hello sjf | 20:52 |
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| dmpayton | heya claya | 20:54 |
| clayasaurus___ | hey | 20:54 |
| sjf | hi dmpayton | 20:55 |
| JLP | sjf: hello | 20:56 |
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