Saturday, 2011-11-19

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annmaSRabbelier: hi, I am from KDE and we did not08:53
annmaand our tasks are not in08:53
annmaany idea what's going on?08:53
SRabbelierannma: what do you mean?08:53
annma(I just woke up)08:53
annmaI mean that we did not do the bulk upload apparently08:53
SRabbelierI didn't delete any tasks, they decided against doing that :P08:54
annmaa guy named sandroandrade should have done it08:54
SRabbelieryes, but he decided against it because he couldn't delete them I think08:55
SRabbelier(that should be available today)08:56
annmawell we're week-end08:56
annmasome mentors are not signed in08:57
annmaand it starts on Monday08:57
annmaI am full of good will but totally lost in all this08:57
annmaOK we get a line of conduct09:04
SRabbelierannma: we'll try to let you assign mentors to tasks after Monday09:06
annmafirst let's try to load the tasks09:08
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valoriehi, we were told earlier that on a bulk upload, mentor's alias should be used in the CSV file09:13
valorieI just want to be sure that this is the NAME, not the USERNAME, from our list of mentors09:14
valoriebefore I correct anything09:14
valorieSRabbelier: ?09:14
SRabbeliervalorie: it should be the username09:38
valorieusername, thanks for clarifying09:38
MamarokSRabbelier: the few tasks uploaded yesterday had NAME, not USERNAME, and that worked09:44
Mamarokalso the drop-down list in melange shows NAME, not USERNAME09:44
SRabbelierMamarok: I can guarantee you that we're not doing lookups by name, since those aren't unique :)09:45
SRabbelieryou're right in that we're displaying name on the drop-down, since that's easier on the eyes :P09:45
MamarokOK, I have all Mentors set to NAME in my CSV, will change that09:46
tpb<> (at
Mamarokbut it worked yesterday for a few09:46
SRabbelierMamarok: because their name happened to be the same as their link_id I suspect09:46
SRabbelierMamarok: see also the instructions on the bulk upload page "Link ID's of mentors for this task, comma separated."09:47
SRabbelierlink_id == username09:47
MamarokSRabbelier: I would love to, but I am just a mentor who gives a hand to the admins09:48
SRabbelierMamarok: ah :)09:48
SRabbelierMamarok: well they're no secret:
tpb<> (at
Mamarokanother question: comma separated mentor IDs, do I also have to escape the commas there?09:50
MamarokI did by default as I wasn't sure09:50
SRabbelierMamarok: no need as long as you quote the field09:51
MamarokOK, that is what I did actually :)09:52
Mamarokas I had to for the descriptions anyway09:52
SRabbelierMamarok: task title, some description <b>with markup</b>, 150, "mentor_a, mentor_b", Easy, "Documentation, Outreach", "Awesome, Wiki"09:53
Mamarokyep, my format is OK, I just have to change the mentor IDs now, shouldn't take long09:54
Mamarokvalorie: 150 hours09:54
Mamarokthat is already correct in the CSV09:54
valorieok, we ran into this before, people putting hours instead of days, and vice-versa09:55
SRabbeliervalorie: it's in hours09:55
SRabbelier"Time to complete in hours, as integer."09:55
Mamarokvalorie: no worries, it's all OK, I just have to change the Mentors09:55
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valorieargh, how do I upload this CSV file?11:06
valorieI know how one usually does it -- surely it isn't copy/paste into the bulk upload area?11:06
Mamarokisn't there a field where you can select the file on your computer?11:08
Mamarokthat is most particular11:08
MamarokSRabbelier: can you help, please?11:08
valoriehow do I upload this file?11:09
SRabbelieryes it's copy paste :P11:09
SRabbelierAppEngine doesn't like uploading files11:09
Mamarokvalorie: dolphin to the rescue11:09
valorieI"m there in dolphin, but when I click on it, it wants it to open in office11:09
Mamaroksorry, Kate I meant11:10
valoriekate, I can do11:10
Mamarokright click, open with kate11:10
Mamarokthen Ctrl+A, Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V in the upload area11:10
valoriesorry for freaking out on you, SRabbelier11:11
annmaOK fingers crossed!!!11:11
SRabbeliervalorie: lol, np :P11:11
annmaSRabbelier: is the upload slow?11:14
Mamarokit went from 32 tasks to 46 and then nothing11:14
annmaso 14 in11:15
SRabbelierchecking logs11:15
SRabbeliertask is still running11:16
annmaOK let's see11:16
SRabbelierI'm seeing some errors though11:18
annmashouldn't the href=" doubled quoted?11:19
SRabbelierwhat href?11:19
annmain the task description11:19
annmatask 1511:20
annmathe one it's stuck to11:20
annmathere's a url in the description11:20
annmatell us what errors you see please SRabbelier11:20
Mamarokseriously? I hope not, else we will have another go at corrections11:20
annmajust guessing11:20
SRabbelierMamarok: all quotes should be escaped by double quotes11:21
annmalet's hear what the errors are11:21
SRabbelierMamarok: so if you have a href="foo" it should be a href=""foo""11:21
annmaSRabbelier: so the URL should be doubled escaped?11:21
annmaah yes11:21
SRabbelier[u'The task in row 1 contains the following errors.\n No valid time to completion found, given was: Time to complete.\nMentors is not a mentor.\nNo valid task difficulty found, given Difficulty.\nType is not a valid task type.']11:21
annmaI just guessed so11:21
SRabbelierthat one's for valorie11:21
SRabbeliervalorie: looks like you have a header row that shouldn't be there11:21
annmaSRabbelier: valorie is in bed, it's 3am for her11:22
annmaI'll take the relay11:22
SRabbelierah, np :)11:22
SRabbelierand for scottmc I'm seeing "[u'The task in row 1 contains the following errors.\n No valid time to completion found, given was: .\n is not a mentor.\nNo valid task difficulty found, given .\n is not a valid task type.', u'The task in row 2 contains the following errors.\n No...11:22
SRabbelierthat's probably that double quote going wrong?11:23
Mamarokthat shouldn't be a biggie to correct, Find+Replace to the rescue11:25
annmait's not that, the Chokoq one has a href and got through11:27
annmaMamarok: the 3 in our spreadsheet11:27
annmathe tasks are not uploaded after the ones existing11:32
annmathere's no way to match the spreadsheet with the uploaded tasks11:32
annmaOK I found a missing "11:40
SRabbelierannma: I think you only have to escape the quotes if you are quoting the entire string (because it contains commas)11:51
MamarokSRabbelier: I quoted the complete Description, so I guessed I would not have to quote what was inside11:54
SRabbelierMamarok: only if the bit inside the description contains "11:54
SRabbelierMamarok: those'd have to be escaped to ""11:54
Mamarokadditionally to the string quote outside, yes, I didn't think of that11:55
MamarokSRabbelier: actually, no need to do this because if you export from a spreadsheet to CSV it adds the double qoutes automatically12:06
Mamarokso that can't be the problem12:06
Mamarokannma: ^12:06
SRabbelierah, ok12:06
MamarokI now have triple quotes showing up, that might be the problem12:07
Mamaroksince the export adds those it added one too many12:07
Mamarokit is the problem, but simply because I already did qoute strings12:08
SRabbelierok :D12:13
annmathe load seems to be stopped at 9012:39
annmaor is it not finished yet?12:39
annmaah no 184!!!12:43
annmawooow we're nearly there12:43
SRabbelierannma: exponential backoff is kicking in :P12:48
SRabbelierannma: the task is written to throw an exception to stop apparently12:48
SRabbelierwhich means that appengine will retry it12:49
SRabbelier(since there's more to do)12:49
SRabbelierbut it'll take twice as long to try again each time12:49
SRabbelierso I'd recommend trying smaller batches next time :P12:49
annmasmaller batches means copying to another spreadsheet12:49
annmato generate csv12:50
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annmahow are other orgs doing this? maybe a HowTo would be really helpful12:50
annmalike GNOME12:50
tpb<> (at
Mamarokeverything seems to have been imported twice now12:51
SRabbelieroh that's bad12:51
annmaMamarok: really?12:51
annmawhere do you see that?12:51
MamarokI have 400 entries showing in melange, but we have about 266 tasks12:51
Mamarokannma: set the page count to 500, refresh and wait12:51
c_schmitznow if there was a way to delete tasks12:52
Mamarokoh well, at least they are in12:52
SRabbelierMamarok: link?12:52
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SRabbelieroh, nvm12:52
SRabbelierwhat org?12:53
Mamarokactually, we will need to check a lot of things, as 400 is not the double of 26612:53
annmaMamarok: what I am trying to do is remove from spreadsheet imported tasks12:53
annmato see which ones were not imported12:54
Mamaroksome are deliberate duplicates12:54
SRabbelieroh dear12:54
Mamarokannma: please do this in a copy of the spreadsheet,12:54
Mamarokdon't delete on the original one12:54
annmatoo late12:55
annmaI have a copy though but that was of early morning12:55
annmaI only see 200 tasks12:55
Mamarokno problem, I will restore a revision then12:55
annma4 pages12:55
Mamarokthere were 266 yesterday12:56
annmaI mean on Melange12:56
MamarokI see 40012:56
annma200 here12:56
Mamarokannma: change the tasks to show to 500 at the bottom, then refresh12:56
SRabbelierMamarok: what org?12:56
SRabbeliermy bad12:57
SRabbelierthere are only 215 tasks for KDE12:57
SRabbelierMamarok: changing to 500 at the bottom and refreshing is probably triggering some UI bug12:58
Mamarokoh, then it is correct, it tells me show 400 of 40012:58
Mamarokright then it is OK *puh*12:58
SRabbelierMamarok: most curious, can you create an issue describing how to repro?12:58
MamarokSRabbelier: go to the KDE tasks, change the view at the bottom to show 500 and refresh12:59
SRabbelierright, please create a
tpbTitle: Google Project Hosting (at
Mamarokoh, sorry, I misread that :)13:00
SRabbeliernp :)13:01
c_schmitzMamarok: see private chat13:02
SRabbelierMamarok: you should be able to just set it to 500 without refreshing to see all tasks13:09
MamarokSRabbelier: submitted the issue 134713:10
SRabbelierMamarok: already assigned it :)13:10
Mamarokthanks :)13:10
SRabbelierI can't repro btw13:11
Mamarokwhen I set the page view to 50, it tells me "View 1 - 50 of 40013:12
Mamarokand apparently it shows the same entries on every other page13:13
Mamarokwhen I go through the 8 pages13:13
Mamarokvery weird13:13
SRabbelierMamarok: you're just in KDE?13:14
Mamarokanyway, I need some food now13:14
Mamarokyes, only KDE13:14
annma(isn't that enough?)13:14
SRabbelierwell I can imagine a bug that's tied to being in multiple orgs :P13:15
annmaI see 227 tasks13:19
annmawhich sounds quite good, a few got rejected13:21
c_schmitzSRabbelier: how do we get our logo in the 'Participating orgs' banner?13:28
SRabbelierc_schmitz: just set it in your org profile13:29
c_schmitzhow would I do that? I can't edit it13:29
SRabbelierc_schmitz: what org are you with again?13:30
c_schmitz(at least I don't see a link or any way to edit it)13:30
tpbTitle: Google Accounts (at
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annmaSRabbelier: I sent 1 task for load and it did not get through (for KDE) but I have more tasks than before this14:34
SRabbelierannma: what do you mean with "it did not get through"?14:34
annmait's not loaded14:34
SRabbelierannma: and I suspect the reason you have more tasks it that someone else created a task14:34
SRabbelierannma: what is not loaded?14:35
SRabbelierno what?14:35
annmaSRabbelier: we sent the whole spreadsheet but some tasks did not get loaded14:35
annmaso now I sent one that was previously refused14:35
annmato test14:35
SRabbelierannma: ok14:36
annmaso I am wondering what's happening14:36
annmathat's what I am asking you14:37
SRabbeliernot sure :D14:41
SRabbelierjust deployed a new release14:41
SRabbelierthat fixes the exponential backoff14:41
SRabbelierso now tasks import should be a lot faster even for large batches14:41
SRabbelierc_schmitz: your logo is broken...
SRabbelierc_schmitz: fixed it for ya :P14:42
SRabbelierc_schmitz: sadly will stay in the cache for half an hour14:42
c_schmitzthanks ;)14:42
c_schmitzsorry, it is hard to write my own project name correctly14:42
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pjcjIs it still the case that tasks can't be modified after uploading?15:00
pjcjif so, can they be deleted?15:00
SRabbelierpjcj: they've been modifyable from teh start15:03
pjcjoh - Carol's mail from 16th Nov says explicitly that they are not15:04
pjcj"NB: Tasks *cannot* be modified after they are published!"15:04
pjcjah - that's after 21st?15:04
pjcjOK - thanks, it's clear now15:06
SRabbelierpjcj: np15:27
annmaI have duplicated tasks from my last load15:29
annmaalso I can't find why some tasks do not import frm spreasheet to melange15:29
annmaSRabbelier: I get duplicated tasks when I load some small batches!15:47
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SRabbelierannma: :(16:05
annmawill I be able to delete them?16:05
annmawhy is so? I fear importing the rest16:06
annmasome are triple even16:06
SRabbelierannma: when you go to the 'edit' pages for the duplicates16:06
SRabbelierannma: is the url different?16:06
annmathe number is not the same16:07
SRabbelierannma: you're sure you're the only one uploading and that you hit 'submit' only once?16:10
annmawell yes16:10
SRabbelierannma: would you mind pastebin-ing the tasks you tried that duplicated?16:11
annmaalthough I did not refresh the webpage16:11
annmaso maybe that's why16:11
annmathe tasks URLs?16:12
SRabbelierannma: what page didn't you refresh?16:13
SRabbelierannma: can you pastebin the text you put in the input field when it duplicated tasks?16:14
annmathe text is gone, it was csv I checked it, it was small as it was only a few tasks16:14
annmaI deleted it :(16:15
SRabbeliernothing much I can do then16:15
SRabbelieryou'll be able to delete tasks later today16:15
annmaOK that's excellent16:16
annmathanks for your support and availability SRabbelier16:17
SRabbelierthank you for working with us ^__^16:17
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SRabbeliertask deletion is now possible17:02
c_schmitzSRabbelier: don't see anything in the interface for deletion17:34
annmame neither17:35
SRabbelierread the changelog17:35
tpb<> (at
SRabbelierannma, c_schmitz: ^17:40
annmaah you rock SRabbelier17:42
annmamany many thanks17:43
annmayou're a savior17:43
annmaall my tasks are in and I can remove dupes17:43
SRabbelierannma: no problem ^__^17:43
SRabbelierannma: glad to hear that17:43
annma:) KDE is all set for Code-In!17:43
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annmahoorah for the task deletion19:28
annmawe might be reaching 300 tasks for KDE19:41
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SRabbelierwow, nice19:54
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pjcjtasks can't be edited once published, but can they be deleted?20:25
SRabbelierpjcj: yes20:30
SRabbelieras long as they aren't claimed20:30
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asmeurer__is anyone around who can answer some questions about code in?21:26
asmeurer__I'm trying to get our tasks together21:26
asmeurer__well, anyway, can someone please ping me when they can22:09
ThomasWaldmannasmeurer__: if you ask specific questions, you might get answers more quickly22:12
asmeurer__ok, I'll ask then:22:12
asmeurer__Can we add mentors/admins to the system after Monday?22:12
asmeurer__If so, can we modify who can mentor a task after Monday?22:13
asmeurer__What is this "Unknown" difficulty?22:13
* ThomasWaldmann has no idea about adding mentors/admins22:14
ThomasWaldmanni suspect that unknown difficulty can be changed later maybe22:14
asmeurer__Oh, and can I verify that we can indeed extend the time limit if we want?22:14
ThomasWaldmannlast year it worked22:15
asmeurer__ok good22:15
asmeurer__is it reasonable to give 1 day (24 hours) per difficulty level?22:15
asmeurer__i.e., 24 hours for easy, 48 for medium, 72 for hard22:15
ThomasWaldmannat moinmoin, we internally use a formula like total_hours = work_hours * 1222:16
asmeurer__and then extend if necessary (i.e., the student demonstrates that he/she is actually working and not just sitting on the task)22:16
asmeurer__but how did you compute work_hours?22:16
ThomasWaldmannso if we suspect a task is 5 hours of work, we would set 60 hours total22:16
asmeurer__ah, so you don't think I've given enough then?22:17
ThomasWaldmannand one should not make it too short. it might happen that a student is in a different TZ and that he can't work on it on some day.22:17
asmeurer__Maybe I'll just add some text to the effect of:22:17
asmeurer__"Note that the time limit exists so that people who claim a task and do no work cannot prevent others from doing the task.  If you need more time, and you have demonstrated that you are indeed working on the task, then we will gladly extend the time limit for you."22:18
asmeurer__but now I'm thinking that in addition, I should double what I currently have22:19
ThomasWaldmannjust don't make it too short. you do not need to explain additional stuff then, there are rules/guidelines from google students can read about it.22:19
ThomasWaldmanne.g. if you would set 24h, i guess that would be a pain22:20
asmeurer__how does 2, 4, 6 days sound for easy, medium, hard, respectively?22:20
ThomasWaldmannif your easy task is also quick, it might work22:20
asmeurer__I personally don't mind giving the students as much time as they want, so long as they are working22:21
ThomasWaldmanni am no big fan of these "easy, medium, hard" levels, they are basically wrong IMHO22:21
asmeurer__what would you do?22:21
ThomasWaldmanntry your best to estimate how many hours a young student who is new to your project will need22:22
ThomasWaldmannand then do not assume he/she can work all day on it. sleep. school. other duties. tz differences.22:23
asmeurer__well, I've got 164 tasks, and I don't really feel like going through each one and trying to estimate something that I have no idea how to estimate in the first place22:24
asmeurer__so I'm just going with this formula based on the difficulty22:24
asmeurer__It would have been nice if we were told about this requirement from the beginning22:24
ThomasWaldmannwell, it is a lot of work, noone said it's easy22:25
* asmeurer__ doesn't see a problem with doing it this way, and then extending it if the student needs more time22:25
ThomasWaldmannof course you can't really estimate how long a student who you do not yet know will really take for it22:25
gevaertsasmeurer__: this is one of those things that GCI admins and mentors like arguing about. You're allowed to have your own way of doing things, as long as you stay within the framework as set up by the google people :)22:26
ThomasWaldmannbut just try some as-good-as-it-gets estimate22:26
asmeurer__oh, one more question (in case a Melange guy comes by later and wants to answer all my questions):22:27
asmeurer__is there a way to add newlines to the description field?22:28
asmeurer__ah, never mind, I see22:28
asmeurer__I just have to do it in html22:28
asmeurer__Oh, and another question: when are we going to be able to see what our project page looks like?22:36
asmeurer__I don't even know how to go back and edit the description22:36
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asmeurer__could I perhaps get some love on my other questions?23:30
asmeurer__I'll repeat them if you want23:30
valorieasmeurer__: on your times, have the mentors look them over23:34
valoriedon't try to do everything yourself23:34
valorieyou'll die, and they'll just find a lil burnt out cinder on the floor23:35
asmeurer__well, if we had known about it from the start, this would have happened23:35
valoriethe rules changed this year23:35
asmeurer__right now, I am the main one who has time to finish this up23:35
valoriewe're all adjusting23:35
valorieand yes, it sucks that we have so little time23:35
asmeurer__I mean it was not even mentioned in
tpb<> (at
asmeurer__ok, so that was actually my least important question23:36
asmeurer__repeating from above:23:36
asmeurer__can we add mentors/admins to the system after monday?23:36
SRabbelierasmeurer__: there was time to complete last year as well23:37
SRabbeliernot sure why it wasn't in the docs23:37
SRabbelierasmeurer__: not currently, but there's already an issue asking for that23:37
asmeurer__well, that will be a problem if the answer is no23:37
asmeurer__only four mentors (including me) have signed up so far23:37
SRabbelierwe'll try to have it implemented before monday23:37
asmeurer__out of at least nine23:38
asmeurer__ok, that would be great23:38
asmeurer__second question: can we modify which mentors are assigned to tasks after monday?23:38
asmeurer__otherwise, it will just be us four23:38
asmeurer__well, I have to go now, but if you could leave the answer here, that would be great23:44
asmeurer__and one other question: what is "unknown" difficulty?23:44
SRabbelierasmeurer__: oh wqait23:54
SRabbelierasmeurer__: I thought that was your original question23:54
SRabbelierasmeurer__: yes you can keep adding mentors forever23:54
SRabbelierasmeurer__: there's no limit on that at all23:54
SRabbelierasmeurer__: it's just that you can't edit tasks after monday, which currently includes editing mentors23:55
SRabbelier(if you had prefixed your messages with "SRabbelier" I would have seen your question and have responded right away :P)23:55
SRabbelierand the Unknown difficulty is caused by someone ending up with a task with no difficulty somehow23:56

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