Thursday, 2011-03-31

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dberkholzhopefully someone's pointed out by now that the orgs list is broken, and the proposal ratings column disappeared02:47
dberkholzif not, i wanted to make sure it was brought up here02:48
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robbyoconnor+1 towhat dberkholz said03:13
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UpthornHello. I am a returning student hoping to apply again, but I am having a great deal of difficulty navigating the new melange interface03:54
UpthornI want to provide links to my previous SoC projects in my application at the organization's wiki03:54
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UpthornIs there anybody here who can help me access my student profile from previous years?04:20
encod3dwtf does melange mean?04:20
UpthornI asked in #gsoc and was directed here04:21
Triskeliosencod3d: find a dictionary04:23
encod3dMelange (; alternately "the spice") is the name of the fictional drug central to the Dune series of science fiction novels by Frank Herbert, and derivative works.04:24
encod3dok ok nvm04:24
encod3d<3 everyone04:25
Triskeliossomeone's a pun on "SoC" expanded to "Spice of Creation"04:25
encod3di accidently submited a proposal twice04:25
encod3dhow do i delete the duplicate?04:25
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UpthornIs there a better time to ask for technical support with the melange interface?04:41
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TriskeliosUpthorn: when it's daytime in the US, I suspect. or try http://groups.google.com/group/melange-soc?pli=104:49
tpb<http://ln-s.net/8gej> (at groups.google.com)04:49
UpthornTriskelios: thanks, I'll try again tomorrow, then04:49
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madrazrUpthorn: Hi05:18
madrazrthe best time to ask for support here or in #GSoC is during the mid-day to evening in the Central European timezone05:19
Upthornmadrazr: what time is that relative to UTC?05:19
madrazrUpthorn: heh, good question. I need to calculate that :P05:20
UpthornI'm in UTC-7, just asked for help tonight because that's when I was writing up my org wiki application05:20
madrazrsince I only know it wrt to my TZ05:20
madrazrUpthorn: probably UTC+205:20
madrazrUpthorn: and as far the answer to your question, you cannot answer your proposals from previous years yet05:21
madrazrUpthorn: we are working towards that05:21
madrazrUpthorn: I don't want to commit to any time as ETA, but just that it may arrive this weekend (but no promises)05:21
UpthornOkay.05:21
UpthornI was slightly worried that the data was lost because the links from last year's application now 404, and the application process changed this year (last year I did not have to re-register as a student because I was already in the system that way from 2009)05:23
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madrazrUpthorn: I can assure you that no data is lost06:03
UpthornOkay06:03
madrazrUpthorn: we have taken enough pains to ensure that06:03
UpthornDo you think it might be lost in the near future? :p06:03
madrazrUpthorn: LoL!06:04
madrazrUpthorn: I don't think so. Why?06:04
UpthornThat was kind of me making fun of myself. I have a tendency to worry overly about such things06:04
UpthornAs for why I might worry about that, you already seem to be aware of what I said before you joined -- I'd like to make reference to my prior successful GSoC projects in this year's application06:09
madrazrUpthorn: ah Ok06:09
madrazrUpthorn: I just need to switch my place06:09
madrazrI will brb06:09
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dreimarkwhat is now the equiv. to http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/homepage/google/gci201009:44
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madrazrdreimark: I am confused09:51
madrazrdreimark: can you please tell me what are you actually looking at?09:51
madrazrdreimark: /gsoc/.../gci2010 just doesn't sound right to me09:51
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TaladSRabbelier: the list of rotating organizations seems to act a bit weird10:42
Taladfor example now you have: liquidgalaxy, gst, boost, minix3, javapathfinder10:43
Taladboost looks out of order10:43
Taladwell, also the others are not in alphabetical order10:44
TaladI followed the instructions to add key to the widget and order by key10:44
Taladbut seems that's not the order used10:45
SRabbelierTalad: it skips the ones that don't have their logo set10:53
TaladSRabbelier: still seems not working, if it goes from J -> B it should get our logo at least10:55
Taladassuming it walks forward and not backward10:56
SRabbelierTalad: regardless of the sorting order, everybody gets a turn10:56
SRabbelierset up a bot to make a screenshot every half hour if you want10:56
Taladok :)10:56
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Kferdhello. can somebody do a reregister from student to mentor for me?11:14
Kferdi tried myself and with a request, but if already registered as a student, a reregister as mentor does not work11:17
Kferdsomebody here now?11:18
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coder89Hello everyone! I have a problem. I am a student and I would like to send my proposal. But I can't find where I can do this. I only see "Become mentor" so I suppose that my account is a mentor account. Is there any way to change it? Thank you for help in advance!11:27
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SRabbelierKferd: hi11:32
Kferd hello11:32
SRabbelierKferd, coder89: send me an email with your link_id and your desired status change11:32
Kferdcan u tell us the mail address!?11:33
Kferdor how can I do this11:33
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KferdSRabbelier: may u tell us the email address where to send our regest11:35
KferdSRabbelier: may u tell us the email address where to send our request11:35
SRabbelierKferd: my nick at gmail11:36
Taladcoder89: if you are a mentor, you cannot be a student11:37
coder89Talad: I'm not a mentor - only my account was registered as a mentor account and I can't remember when I could choose those account type.11:44
Taladclick on My dashboard and see if you have any organization listed11:46
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coder89Talad: of course I have but I can't see 'Submit your proposal'. Instead of this I see 'mentors: apply!' text on main pane of website.11:56
coder89Talad: Oh. I'm sorry... I mean that I see organizations on 'Accepted organizations page' but not on My dashboard. :P11:58
Taladno idea then12:00
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acemcloud1hey Taggnostr.. u there?13:46
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Taggnostracemcloud1, yes14:01
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acemcloud1yeah.. any luck eith finding your proposal on the site?14:25
acemcloud1*with14:25
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gancienthi all , i wanted to file a feature request for melange. for the portal to send an email to the author of the proposal , when someone comments.15:05
gancientcan i please be directed to the bug tracker of melange ?15:06
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slingshot316gancient: http://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/list15:07
tpbTitle: Issues - soc - SoC (Spice of Creation) - Google Project Hosting (at code.google.com)15:07
slingshot316gancient: you can file a new issue there :)15:07
gancientslingshot316: thanks :)15:07
slingshot316gancient: np :)15:07
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Taggnostracemcloud1, now I can see it in "projects" but if I click on it nothing happens15:21
pacmanmadrazr: Hi15:22
madrazrpacman: Heya!15:22
madrazrpacman: sorry, you had pinged me yesterday when I was away15:22
madrazrand when I saw you had left15:23
pacmanmadrazr: np15:23
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pacmanmadrazr: So then I heard about you and melange from Sarath Lakshman, and thats how I thought about doing a GSoC project for Melange15:24
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pacmanmy default coding language is python and three of the projects listed on the ideas page of melange looks doable to me15:26
madrazrpacman: nice15:27
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pacmanand I was talking to srabbelier about it too15:28
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pacmanmadrazr: and it is from srabbelier that i got to know that you know more about the GCI module than anyone else15:29
madrazrpacman: yeah. I read the logs15:30
pacmanmadrazr: the three projects, better gci module, improved architecture and exporting to google docs looks interesting and doable to me15:33
madrazrpacman: cool!15:33
madrazrpacman: did you submit a proposal yet?15:33
pacmanmadrazr: no not yet15:34
pacmanmadrazr: It would be great of I could get inputs from you as to which project I should concentrate on15:36
madrazrpacman: TBH, I can give you feedback15:37
madrazrpacman: but you should give the real inputs15:37
madrazrpacman: as to what interests you to work on15:37
madrazrpacman: and such15:37
madrazrI can given feedback on such inputs to help you choose the project15:37
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pacmanmadrazr: sorry got dc15:53
madrazrpacman: NP15:54
pacmanmadrazr: I would love to work on the django platform15:54
pacmanmadrazr: and I wouldnt say that I've worked in UX design15:55
madrazrpacman: pretty much all the projects in Melange would let you do that15:55
madrazrpacman: I mean let you work on Django platform15:55
pacmanmadrazr: yeah exactly.. and thats the reason why I would prefer Melange to any other org15:56
madrazrpacman: cool!15:57
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slingshot316madrazr: hello :)16:09
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* madrazr waves to carols :)16:55
carolshi mad16:56
carolsmadrazr:16:56
carolssorry, got my messages mixed up there16:56
madrazrcarols: no problem :)16:57
* carols needs more coffee16:57
* madrazr serves16:57
carolsthanks madrazr16:57
carols:-)16:57
madrazr:)16:57
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Taggnostrhttp://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/list_projects/google/gsoc2010 is there a way to open the proposals listed here?17:50
tpb<http://ln-s.net/8fuR> (at socghop.appspot.com)17:50
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madrazrTaggnostr: Pages from previous years are not available yet18:11
madrazrTaggnostr: all the data is safe, I can assure18:11
madrazrTaggnostr: but those pages need the makeup we have put for GSoC 2011 pages :P18:11
Taggnostrmadrazr, do you know when they will be available?18:13
madrazrTaggnostr: I can't really commit on the ETA. I am sorry18:13
Taggnostrok, I wanted to check something in the proposal I made last year applying again, but if they are not going to be available soon I think I'll just apply18:15
madrazrTaggnostr: cool! thanks18:18
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Nightroseheys :)18:58
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Nightroseis there any chance we can get negative scores back in the ratings?18:58
Nightroseour rating system will not work with only positive scores and i am wondering if i will have to figure out a new one with my mentors or of there is a chance to get negative scores back18:59
Nightrosesorting out the really bad proposals that way was necessary in the large number of applications we get19:01
Nightrosei can't just shift the whole scale since i can't expect all mentors to vote on all proposals19:01
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eocquestion about the logo … can we provide a svg that is then resized to fit accordingly or do we need to crop pngs?19:08
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|Kev|eoc: It has to work inside an <img/> tag.19:39
|Kev|(So png is your safest option)19:40
eochm, well, svg would certainly be of advantage if e.g. size requirements change later19:40
eocsvg should™ also work there19:40
eocjust that nobody sees them :<19:40
|Kev|I just used a resized png for ours.19:42
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wetais there a lag between mentors requesting and them showing up in the admin's dashboard?19:49
wetaA couple of folks said they signed up, but I don't see them yet. Wondering if I should tell them they didn't do it right or not.19:49
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wetamadrazr: Please see above when you get a sec. Thank you19:56
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madrazrweta: No. Not that I know of, because all of them happen in real time (I mean none in background processes). So theoritically there should be absolutely no lag20:07
madrazrweta: but well yeah, let me check the logs to see if something went wrong20:08
madrazrNightrose: give me few mins, I will update you on the scoring system20:08
Nightrosemadrazr: thx20:08
madrazreoc: personally I would be scared to use an SVG yet since I always want our org to feature on front page no matter what browser is used20:09
madrazreoc: if you don't mind people who don't use a standards compliant browser, you can give an SVG20:11
madrazreoc: just FYI, we just use max-width 65px and max-height 65px (there is no other restriction)20:12
madrazrweta: I don't see any errors in the logs20:12
madrazrweta: so I don't think there is any problem with the mentor requests20:13
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madrazrweta: I am just testing out locally with the latest code to see if some one broke it (Tests seem to pass though)20:14
madrazrweta: just a small test, can you ask your mentors to see if they see the message "You are already  for this organization" when they go to your organization home page?20:18
Nightroseweta: i think i saw some delay in the last days yes20:20
Nightrosementors telling me they applied but didn't show up immediately but a minute or two later maybe20:20
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madrazrNightrose: sorry for my delayed response to you. I just wanted to make sure that I know what I am talking :)20:23
madrazrNightrose: it seems like negative scoring won't be added20:23
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madrazrNightrose: but to address your concern, we are adding a checkbox for org admins on the proposal (and also on the list of proposals) to say "I accept this proposal"20:24
madrazrNightrose: so that those proposals will be accepted irrespective of all the scores given by mentors20:24
madrazrNightrose: is that reasonable for you guys?20:24
madrazrNightrose: I completely understand you are a very big Org. Indeed the largest among all the GSoC orgs? :)20:25
Nightrosemadrazr: hmm i need to think about that for a sec20:25
Nightroseyes the largest one last year20:25
madrazrNightrose: sure take your time20:25
Nightroseso what we did last year and the year before:20:25
madrazrNightrose: EchoDitto suggests we should still keep the star rating mechanism20:25
Nightroseeach mentor was allowed to vote +1 or -1 on all proposals20:26
Nightrose+1 -> great proposal - we should take it20:26
Nightroseno vote = 0 = i don't care of have not reviewed20:26
Nightrose-1 -> proposal sucks - don't take it20:26
Nightrosethis way in the end the bad proposals ended up at the bottom of our list and the good ones moved up20:27
Nightroseand then the admins adjusted that whole thing in a last step based on what the subteams in kde voted for only their proposals in a seperate spreadsheet20:27
|Kev|Nightrose: I think that's statistically similar to picking 1 and 3, and not voting if you were previously +-020:27
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madrazrNightrose: I see your problem of using a different scale now20:28
|Kev|Although I've not done the maths.20:28
Nightrose|Kev|: yeah - that's what i am not sure about atm20:28
|Kev|Certainly using the whole scale will be a bother if you want to keep the same model.20:28
|Kev|But voting -1 and +1 becoming +1 and +3 is equivalent.20:28
|Kev|Just subtract 2 from the new score to get the old score.20:29
Nightroseand those who don't vote?20:29
Nightrosehmmm20:29
|Kev|Will not vote, which doesn't affect the score, in the same way that 0 didn't affect it before.20:29
madrazr|Kev|: subtracting makes sense, until then ... :)20:29
Nightroseso essentially 0 and 2 would be the same?20:30
|Kev|Nightrose: I don't think it's *quite* statistically equivalent, but it's pretty close.20:30
Nightrose*nod*20:30
|Kev|I think you want to still vote 0 (i.e. not vote) if you're not voting.20:30
Nightrosethe problem i have of course is that i can't get all mentors to vote on all proposals20:30
madrazrNightrose: sure20:30
Nightroseand i'm not sure if that is ok with that system or not20:30
Nightrosei guess i need to see it in action then20:30
madrazrNightrose: subtracting by 2 is almost equivalent20:31
madrazrNightrose: I will take a look at it locally and see how it works20:31
Nightroseok thx :)20:31
|Kev|Having people not vote should have the same (no) effect on the scores that it had last time.20:31
Nightroseappreciate it20:31
Nightrose|Kev|: ok - that'd be good20:31
|Kev|I can probably run some numbers for you in a moment if you'd like.20:31
Nightroselet's see what madrazr is coming up with20:32
madrazr|Kev|: Nightrose: I see one concern myself though20:32
Nightroseyeah?20:32
madrazrsubtracting you can do well, but Melange ranking would still use the scale from +1 to +320:32
madrazrthat way in the list on Melange you would still see 0 voted ones at the bottom20:33
Nightrosei guess that'd be good in a way20:33
Nightrosethen they're clearly not taken care of yet20:33
Nightroseas opposed to potentially disputed proposals before20:33
|Kev|madrazr: That can easily be solved by having one person vote 2 on everything.20:33
madrazr|Kev|: KDE receives 300 proposals20:34
madrazrNightrose: correct?20:34
Nightrosecorrect ;-)20:34
madrazror some insane number like that :P20:34
|Kev|madrazr: It's a bind for one person, but at least it's only one person.20:34
|Kev|I'm just trying to make a suggestion that's as statistically similar to the old one as possible.20:34
madrazrheh sure20:34
madrazr|Kev|: sure. thank you very much20:34
madrazr|Kev|: I am not saying it is wrong or anything. I am just weighing things20:35
madrazras to what would be good20:35
|Kev|It's not the same, and I'm not even convinced the ordering will come out the same same, but at least it sounds fair.20:35
madrazr|Kev|: I agree with that20:35
|Kev|And (apart from the one poor sod) no harder for mentors than the old system.20:35
Nightroseheh20:35
Nightrosetell that to the one poor sod :P20:36
|Kev|Nightrose: I think I have :)20:36
gevaertsThat's what the $500 per mentor is for!20:36
Nightrose(or the one mentor who goes through all our proposals and comments)20:36
madrazrNightrose: |Kev|: I am quite sure even PSF will have the same problem :P20:36
Nightrosegevaerts: we use them to send students to Akademy ;-)20:36
madrazrthats the next monster after KDE20:36
madrazrand ASF too :P20:36
wetamadrazr: thanks for the suggestion. I'll ask them to check and get back to me. There's at least a few mentors who I was expecting to see, but I don't see their requests.20:37
|Kev|Nightrose: How many mentors are we talking about?20:37
madrazrweta: No problem. I tried to reproduce it locally. But there seems like no problem or lag. Also I don't see any errors in our logs. So things should be fine20:37
Nightrosewho sign up? about 100 i guess? - not sure yet20:37
|Kev|Ta.20:37
wetamadrazr: OK, thanks. I'll chase one person I know who hasn't signed up yet too and ask them to.20:38
gevaertshm20:38
gevaertsWouldn't this solution mean that not only one of the mentors has to click a lot, but then also not have a counting vote?20:38
Nightrosejep20:38
gevaertsYou could have a dummy mentor of course20:39
Nightroseheh yeah20:41
Nightrosebut well20:41
Nightroseas i said above this might actually not be a problem but a good thing20:41
Nightrosebecause then all the proposals that no-one voted on yet are clearly visible20:41
|Kev|I'm realising at the moment that I don't remember python :s20:42
Nightroselol20:42
madrazrweta: heh sure :)20:43
|Kev|Ok.20:45
|Kev|So, I have good news and bad news :D20:45
gevaertsTell us the good news, and hide the bad news :)20:45
|Kev|The good news is that KDE can have a statistically equivalent ordering system to last year.20:46
Nightroseheh20:47
Nightrose\o/20:47
Nightrosethe bad news?20:47
|Kev|How do you feel about everyone voting on every application?20:47
Nightroseimpossible20:47
|Kev|You have your bad news.20:47
Nightrose-.-20:48
|Kev|Let me just sort out the ordering.20:48
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madrazr|Kev|: Nightrose: From the 3 cases I took, it might not matter at all. You just don't need to subtract as well :)20:50
madrazrLet me just paste my scores here20:50
Nightroseok20:50
madrazrCase 1: Old scoring: -3 -1 0 0 0 (-4)20:51
madrazr() is total20:51
madrazrNew scoring: 1 3 0 0 0 (4)20:51
madrazrCase 2: Old scoring: 2 -1 -3 0 0 0 0 0 (-2)20:51
madrazrNew Scoring: 6 3 1 0 0 0 0 0 (10)20:52
madrazrCase 3: Old Scoring: 2 3 0 3 2 0 0 2 -1 -3 (8)20:52
Nightroseso the new scores are added up and not an average?20:52
madrazrNew Scoring: 6 7 0 7 6 0 0 6 3 1 (36)20:52
|Kev|Ok, this is pretty close.20:52
|Kev|madrazr: Ah, I've just written that too :)20:52
|Kev|Let me paste what I have, though.20:53
madrazrNightrose: averaging, good question. I am not sure about that myself :D20:53
|Kev|Which isn't quite as rosy, I'm afraid.20:53
madrazrlet us average20:53
madrazr|Kev|: sure :)20:53
|Kev|madrazr: I've already done this, it saves you the time :)20:53
madrazr|Kev|: LoL! it doesn't need to be Rosy :P20:53
madrazr|Kev|: hah Ok20:53
* madrazr waits for |Kev|20:53
Nightrosemadrazr: because if it is added up it gets us into the problem of not every mentor voting on every proposal20:53
Nightrosethat's not a problem if it is averaged20:54
|Kev|http://astyanax.doomsong.co.uk/~kismith/nolisting/tmp/nightrose.py.txt20:54
tpb<http://ln-s.net/8grq> (at astyanax.doomsong.co.uk)20:54
* gevaerts thinks that melange should provide an API for people to develop scoring/ranking side-applications :)20:54
Nightroselol20:54
|Kev|http://astyanax.doomsong.co.uk/~kismith/nolisting/tmp/nightroseout.txt20:54
tpb<http://ln-s.net/8grr> (at astyanax.doomsong.co.uk)20:54
|Kev|So it's pretty close, but not the same.20:54
Nightroselooking20:55
|Kev|If you look at nightroseout, the last three lines.20:55
|Kev|The last line is the ranking of each set of votes, assuming everyone votes like last year but +220:55
|Kev|(And with *everyone* voting)20:56
|Kev|The previous line is if everyone who voted -1 votes 1, and everyone voting +1 votes 3, with one person voting 2 on everything.20:56
|Kev|The previous line is with -1, 0 and 120:56
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* Nightrose hands cookies to |Kev| and madrazr20:57
madrazr|Kev|: so averaging on mentors has the same effect20:57
|Kev|madrazr: Same effect as what? :)20:57
* madrazr grabs the cookies and eats first (too hungry) and then think later :P20:57
madrazrNightrose: thanks :)20:57
Nightrosehehe20:57
madrazr|Kev|: as the old score?20:57
Nightrosei also have some kiwi left over20:57
|Kev|madrazr: Only if *everyone* votes.20:58
|Kev|madrazr: If only the people who voted before vote, you end up with the last but one line, not the last line.20:58
|Kev|Which you can see is pretty close, but not exactly the same ordering.20:58
madrazr|Kev|: yeah, it is almost same20:58
|Kev|The ordering is, however, 'fair', I think.20:58
madrazryeah sure, I notice that20:59
madrazrNightrose: in such border cases, you can manually adjust?20:59
Nightrosei can if melange allows it yes20:59
madrazrNightrose: you can say "I want this proposal, I don't care anything else in the world" :P20:59
|Kev|madrazr: Well, there's an easy solution to this.20:59
|Kev|Well, 'easy'.20:59
madrazrNightrose: we will have that when ranking opens20:59
madrazr|Kev|: whats that?20:59
Nightrosethe thing is: is the score of each proposal now the sum of all votes or the average?21:00
|Kev|If melange can show the number of votes, as well as the average, it's easy to sort this out.21:00
|Kev|With a script, to end up with an equivalent ordering to last year.21:00
Nightroseright21:00
|Kev|If you know how many mentors voted in total, and the *exact* average, you can even work it out.21:01
|Kev|But with just the average you can't.21:01
madrazrNightrose: honestly I don't know that yet. I haven't read that code. It was mostly written by Daniel and some parts by Sverre21:01
|Kev|Although I don't see this as a problem, the results willl still be fair, I think.21:01
|Kev|And I think it only matters for people who would previously have been below 0 score, although I haven't proved that.21:01
Nightrosemadrazr: ok - that would be good to find out - ideally imho it would be the average21:02
Nightrose|Kev|: well consider this case:21:02
Nightrosea proposal gets only one vote but that one vote is a 321:02
Nightroseanother proposal gets 4 votes - all of them 1s21:02
Nightroseif we do the sum of that the bad proposal is higher ranked than the good one21:02
Nightroseif we do average the bad one is below the good one21:03
|Kev|I have added these two cases to the script, and uploaded the results21:03
|Kev|Noting, as I predicted that the only people who've changed position are again those who score below 0 aggregate in the old system.21:04
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Nightroseok - i think it is too late for me to follow that last part21:05
Nightrosesorry21:05
Nightrosebrain melting :P21:05
|Kev|TL;DR: The suggested scoring system should work ok for the students that 'matter'.21:05
|Kev|The students that you'll end up rejecting anyway will end up in a different order, but assuming you'll only be accepting people with more positive than negative votes, I *think* you're ok.21:06
Nightrosehmmm but doesn't the first student above matter?21:06
madrazrNightrose: sure, it may depending on the scores, but border cases can be adjust manually?21:06
|Kev|Nightrose: 'first student above'?21:07
Nightroseok - you know what - i'll wait for madrazr to find out if it is actually the average or sum in the end21:07
Nightrose|Kev|: the one with only one vote but that being a 321:07
madrazr|Kev|: the last accepted student I think21:07
Nightrosemadrazr: well question is if those are border cases - i don't think the one above is one21:07
|Kev|The placements are in ascending order in this list, so the student marked 0 is last place.21:07
|Kev|Oh, I see what you mean.21:08
Nightrosethanks a bunch guys for spending brain cycles on this21:08
|Kev|If the only thing you have available is the sum in the new system, the system is completely broken :)21:08
Nightrose|Kev|: exactly21:08
eocagree there21:09
|Kev|I'm assuming it's the average, or even better the average plus knowing what the exact votes were.21:09
Nightrose*nod*21:09
|Kev|Either of which can be made to work reasonably.21:09
* gevaerts thinks that the debian schulze-condorcet method makes most sense21:10
|Kev|Just for reference, I've uploaded what a sum system would do.21:10
|Kev|(The last line)21:10
|Kev|Which, as you can see, is completely broken.21:10
Nightrose|Kev|: my point exactly ;-)21:11
Nightrosethx21:11
madrazrNightrose: I notice that we currently store the total score for the proposal and all the scores separately21:11
madrazrI am not able to find the code that displays (but there is one I guess since I see such a thing on the Proposal Review page)21:11
Nightroseok21:11
madrazrNightrose: so we can probably display both? :P or give org admins options to choose that?21:11
|Kev|madrazr: The only reasonable use of that total is when used as total / count(votes)21:12
|Kev|Please don't display the total anywhere :)21:12
Nightroseyeah what |Kev| said21:12
madrazr|Kev|: which is average?21:12
|Kev|Mean average, yes.21:12
madrazr|Kev|: right :)21:12
madrazrI never get those terms right :P21:12
* Nightrose neither21:12
Nightrose:P21:12
gevaertsShow all averages!21:12
Nightrosegevaerts: you win an internetz21:13
|Kev|I do, but then I have two maths teachers as parents, so hey ho.21:13
gevaertsWell, median doesn't make much sense if you have a few dozen votes in a 1 to 3 range...21:13
Nightrose|Kev|: that must either be pretty awesome or really horrible21:13
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|Kev|median makes sense to eliminate outliers, we don't have much scope for outliers here, mean is what you want.21:14
|Kev|Nightrose: Spot the person who wrote the script to check the similarities between scoring systems, and then guess :)21:14
Nightroselol21:14
madrazr|Kev|: gevaerts: Nightrose: I have made a note of showing only averages (and if feasible the count of votes). I will bring it up in our next call21:15
|Kev|Thanks.21:15
madrazr|Kev|: thanks for saving us some development time21:15
|Kev|I'm not sure I've done that, but you're welcome.21:15
madrazr|Kev|: could better be used to bring in some important stuff21:15
Nightrosethx a bunch madrazr21:16
madrazrNightrose: thank you very much for bring it up21:16
gevaertsmadrazr: you mean like better logo rotation? :)21:16
madrazrNightrose: I hope it helps all other orgs21:16
Nightrose*nod*21:16
madrazrgevaerts: yeah? Wasn't that the most sought after feature?21:16
Nightrosehaha21:16
Nightroseit was!21:16
Nightrose(rightfully so)21:16
madrazrgevaerts: EchoDitto just randomly chose those logos (may be because they could get them very easily for the resolution they wanted)21:17
gevaertsmadrazr: this is something like the difference between mean and median, only here it's most sought after and most needed :)21:17
madrazrand there were some outcries for giving some orgs advantage :P21:17
madrazrMelange devs did not do that :P21:17
madrazrNightrose: so KDE looked up already in the turn?21:17
madrazrNightrose: while writing the code, I had KDE as one of the test logos :)21:18
madrazrgevaerts: so that was not most needed? :)21:18
Nightrosei didn't see kde's logo yet no21:18
|Kev|I think it was, actually.21:18
Nightrosebut i probably just went on the page at the wrong time21:18
|Kev|Something seems to be heavily suppressing applications this year, at least for us.21:18
|Kev|So eliminating any possible causes is good.21:18
madrazrNightrose: if you keep going there at the same time every day you should see KDE in less than 17.5 days :D21:18
Nightroserofl21:19
Nightroseok21:19
gevaertsmadrazr: It's hard to say. I also wanted the rotation, but I'm not sure where I'd have placed it on the priority list21:19
madrazr|Kev|: more Indian students but?21:19
* madrazr hides 21:19
madrazr;-)21:19
Nightrose|Kev|: yeah i also have the impression that it is slower this year21:19
Nightrosebut i am really happy to see a lot of names from conf.kde.in in the applications21:20
Nightroseand they're pretty solid applications21:20
|Kev|I have had a (seemingly) higher number of high-quality students approach me, but no particularly inspiring applications yet, and only a few that aren't.21:20
madrazrgevaerts: from the mailing list discussions and people complaining the low turn out, it seemed like a very high priority for me (personally)21:20
|Kev|Also, you're a big meaniepie. You've got me in an I-Want-To-Do-Maths mood, and it's gone 10 at night, and I've been working since 7am one way or another.21:20
madrazrgevaerts: and well I just wanted to close that issue without any more comments and noise ;-)21:20
gevaertsmadrazr: oh, I'm not complaining :)21:21
madrazrso that we would ensure that we are serious about the bugs filed :)21:21
madrazrgevaerts: LoL!21:21
madrazrI did not say or mean that :)21:21
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Nightrose|Kev|: go als look at cuteoverload for a while to make up for all the meaniepies here :P21:21
|Kev|Heh.21:22
madrazrNightrose: wow! Pradeepto should know that. It will inspire him to do another conf.kde.in I guess :)21:22
Nightrosemadrazr: jep - will do21:22
madrazrNightrose: thanks :)21:22
madrazr|Kev|: OMG! You need some rest now :)21:22
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gevaertsmadrazr: my impression of the mentor mailing list in general isn't *entirely* positive, so I tend to ignore complaints there21:23
madrazr|Kev|: gevaerts and Nightrose: For some reason, students this year are trying to delay the submission till the end?21:23
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madrazrabout Melange21:23
Nightrosei've been pushing them as much as i can to submit asap21:23
Nightrosebut maybe21:24
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gevaertsmaybe21:24
madrazrwe have higher had number of turn out (even before we launched the new UI). But the submission seems low yet21:24
madrazr*we had higher I meant :)21:24
gevaertsI can't really remember the time distribution from previous years21:24
madrazrgevaerts: me too21:24
madrazrgevaerts: but it is just a human tendency to postpone till the deadline :)21:24
madrazrgevaerts: I did that during both GSoC 2008 and 200921:24
madrazrI almost submitted the proposal in the last couple of days21:25
madrazr*proposals I should say :P21:25
Nightrosehehe21:25
Nightrosehow many did you write?21:25
madrazrNightrose: 7 totally :P (1 in 2007, 3 in 2008 and 3 in 2009)21:25
madrazr2007 got rejected :P21:25
Nightrosewow21:25
Nightrosenot bad21:25
krkhanmy proposal is okay when i view it but as soon as i click on update half the text goes missing in the edit box21:26
madrazr:)21:26
madrazrkrkhan: can you please link me to your review page?21:26
krkhanmadrazr: http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/proposal/review/google/gsoc2011/krkhan/121:27
madrazrNightrose: GSoC has been an amazing experience for me in the last 5 years (2007 to 2011)21:27
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madrazrNightrose: it has been career path changing experience :)21:27
madrazrNightrose: so yes, not bad :)21:27
Nightrose:)21:27
LetterRipfor the logo - is the size less than or equal to 65x65 or less than21:27
LetterRip65x6521:27
madrazrLetterRip: it is capped at 65px x 65 px21:27
LetterRipok21:27
madrazrLetterRip: either of the dimensions can be individually smaller21:28
LetterRipalso does the logo location need to be permanent21:28
LetterRipor can i do a temp upload?21:28
madrazrLetterRip: but don't give us a logo which is bigger than that, we will make it look ugly with rough edges by reduction :P21:28
* madrazr ducks21:28
LetterRipright i've already scaled it to the correct size21:28
LetterRipbut wanted to make sure it didn't have to be 6421:28
madrazrLetterRip: it need not be permanent21:28
LetterRipsince the text says les than 6521:29
LetterRipok21:29
madrazrLetterRip: we just cache the results for 30 mins21:29
madrazrLetterRip: please don't remove the image from the location when your Org is featuring21:29
LetterRipok21:29
madrazrLetterRip: otherwise you can change the URL on your org profile form21:29
LetterRipthat is what i was curious about21:29
madrazrkrkhan: looking at it21:29
LetterRipif it was stored on you guys after link21:29
LetterRipor if you fetched and cached on demand21:29
madrazrLetterRip: we have carefully stayed away from storing Org images21:30
LetterRipok21:30
krkhanmadrazr: i have to fix a few typos in my proposal but dont want to edit it right now in case i cant reproduce the bug later on21:30
madrazrLetterRip: 1st it will cost us API quota on Appengine. We are already hitting soft limits on some API quota. So we did not want to take more burden21:30
LetterRipk21:30
madrazr2. we will have to get a consent from Google's counsel before we start storing your logos21:31
madrazrLetterRip: we just don't have enough time for it for GSoC 2011 :)21:31
LetterRipjust wanted to be sure how permanent the location should be21:31
madrazrLetterRip: ah Ok cool!21:31
gevaertsMaybe a google cache URL will work :)21:31
LetterRipotherwise i was going to upload to a temp folder21:31
madrazrLetterRip: sorry for boring you with those details :)21:31
LetterRipheh no problme :)21:31
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madrazrkrkhan: sure21:31
madrazrkrkhan: you got an ID of 1?21:32
madrazryeah!? really!?21:32
madrazryou are the blessed guy probably :P21:32
madrazrkrkhan: can I PM you?21:33
krkhanmadrazr: i thought the id was 1 because this was my first proposal. is it unique to all proposals :o ?21:33
krkhanmadrazr: sure :)21:33
madrazrkrkhan: I just don't want to copy paste lines from your proposal in public, since you have not made it public21:33
madrazrkrkhan: thanks21:33
madrazrkrkhan: about IDs. I can't say that21:34
madrazrkrkhan: in fact none of us can say that21:34
madrazrkrkhan: only Appengine knows :)21:34
|Kev|Right, I must hit the bed before I hit the floor.21:36
|Kev|GNight!21:36
madrazr|Kev|: thanks for all the help21:36
|Kev|Thanks for yours :)21:36
madrazr|Kev|: have a good sleep. Good night :)21:36
madrazror is "sleep tight" acceptable in that part of the world? ;-)21:36
LetterRipsleep tight, don't let the bed bugs bite21:38
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dberkholzi'm trying to invite a new admin who definitely does not show up as an admin and has no pending admin invite, but it says she already is one.21:49
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dberkholzshe is currently a mentor21:50
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LetterRipany comments - does this look ok?21:57
LetterRiphttp://www.blender.org/fileadmin/site/_gfx/blender_logo_stacked_65x65.png21:57
tpb<http://ln-s.net/8gsc> (at www.blender.org)21:57
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madrazrLetterRip: looks good to me. You guys are lucky to have a square logo :)22:15
madrazrdberkholz: can you ask her to check her dashboard once?22:15
LetterRipwe don't22:15
LetterRipi'm making it square from our official logo22:15
madrazrLetterRip: you made it look like square?22:15
gevaertsYou do now :)22:15
LetterRipwell the total logo is the hand+eye with text22:15
madrazrLetterRip: I don't think it is necessary. Just cap the sizes for 65 px22:15
madrazrone of them can be smaller22:15
LetterRipmadrazr: have to reorganize it22:16
madrazrLetterRip: changing identity!?22:16
LetterRipsince by default it is linear22:16
LetterRiphttp://download.blender.org/institute/logos/blenderlogo.png22:16
LetterRipis our logo22:16
LetterRipthe way it is supposed to look22:16
LetterRipgot permission to do rearranging etc22:16
LetterRipbut i'm not much of an artist - was told that i have horridly distracting aliasing in the above :)22:17
LetterRipso trying to fix by scaling with a better scaling tool22:17
madrazrLetterRip: after I saw the actual logo, I thought it makes sense to cut out that text at least :P22:18
LetterRiptrying to find svg versions of all the files so i can scale them right22:18
madrazrLetterRip: we will give you that text in the onmouse hover now :)22:18
LetterRipmadrazr: ah ok22:19
madrazrLetterRip: thank Sverre for that :)22:19
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Talad|ZzZHi22:53
Talad|ZzZis there a way to delete a proposal if it's a duplicate?22:53
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