Thursday, 2009-04-09

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djcI'm confused, where did the proposal scoring bits go?04:33
kblindjc: use the dropdown box to make a mentor or admin comment, not a public comment04:35
djcthanks04:44
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drycafehi - we had talked to Pawel a couple days ago about switching a student from another org to us - it sounds from one of the emails on melange-soc that we should bring that up here or file an issue on the tracker10:44
drycafe(us = NESCent)10:44
drycafecan we figure this out right here or should I go ahead and file the tracker item?10:45
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MerioHi drycafe, I'm not one of the committers, but the issue tracker is the best way to go10:49
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drycafeMerio: thanks, I guess I'll do that then11:04
drycafelh: Merio recommended that I put the request about switching an application from GenMAPP to NESCent on the tracker - just FYI, in case you suggest differently11:06
madrazrSRabbelier: Hi11:06
sandy|lurkdrycafe: that is what was recommended to me by lh :-)11:11
sandy|lurkI was told to file an issue, email the melange list, and ping somebody here11:12
sandy|lurkSo I did that, and here is the issue: http://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=56511:12
tpb<http://ln-s.net/37Fx> (at code.google.com)11:12
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kblinlh: hi there :)11:15
drycafesandy|lurk: yes I saw the email - thanks for the link, now I guess I just need to clone and change URL and org names :-)11:15
drycafealright, here it is: http://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=56611:24
tpb<http://ln-s.net/37G4> (at code.google.com)11:24
lhsandy|lurk, drycafe: have the apps still not been moved for you?11:32
lhkblin: hail unto thee11:33
sandy|lurklh: no, not yet11:33
lhsandy|lurk: ok thanks, i will see what i can do to help things along. i have the issue number too. :)11:34
drycafelh: no, not yet11:35
sandy|lurklh: are preliminary allocations coming out today?11:35
lhdrycafe: may i have the issue url please11:35
lhsandy|lurk: yes11:35
sandy|lurkcool11:35
drycafelh: http://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=56611:35
tpb<http://ln-s.net/37G4> (at code.google.com)11:35
lhdrycafe: thank you11:35
drycafelh: awesome, it's switched now! big thank you to everyone how had a hand in this11:45
drycafes/how/who11:45
lhdrycafe: i didn't have a chance to do anything yet, but i presume we have solydzajs to thank for this11:46
lhsandy|lurk: is yours fixed too?11:47
* sandy|lurk checks...11:47
sandy|lurkwell, it's still in mono11:47
* sandy|lurk checks gnome11:47
sandy|lurklh: no, it has not moved11:48
lhsandy|lurk: ok thanks.11:48
sandy|lurkoh weird, I don't see my post on the melange list11:49
lhsandy|lurk: i saw it11:49
drycafelh: give my regards & thanks to solydzajs if s/he was the one11:49
lhdrycafe: will do11:49
drycafesandy|lurk: I saw it too11:49
sandy|lurkhmm, thanks11:49
lhdrycafe: hilmar just emailed the melange-soc list - can you reply and let him know it was taken care of?11:50
drycafesandy|lurk: (actually I even replied :)11:50
lhoh nm.11:50
sandy|lurk:-)11:50
* lh waves to hilmar11:50
* drycafe waves back to lh11:50
sandy|lurkoh, I see what happened11:50
sandy|lurkit's now under your subject11:51
* drycafe has split personality which he knows causes confusion sometimes11:51
drycafesandy|lurk: yeah I "tweaked" the subject so as not to be wrong, but didn't open a new thread as in principle it's the same kind of request11:52
sandy|lurkdrycafe: yeah, it's just weird how google groups represents that, hope melange devs don't think they took care of my request11:53
lhsandy|lurk: put in request by private mail too.11:54
sandy|lurklh: you did, or I should? if I should, to whom?11:55
lhsandy|lurk: i took care of it11:57
sandy|lurkyou are awesome lh11:57
drycafelh: I noted on the tracker item that it has been taken care of but for some reason I can't close out the item (or I'm too dumb to see how)11:58
lhsandy|lurk: i try11:58
lhdrycafe: we will take care of that for you later11:58
lhdrycafe: please dont send this message to the gsoc discuss list.11:59
lhdrycafe: we should coordinate next year so that you can send this out after our deadline. as it stands i dont want to distract students from gsoc. that might get me killed. :)11:59
drycafelh: OK - as I said that's what I expected12:00
lhdrycafe: sorry, it's an awesome effort12:00
lhi will pimp it on twitter right now tho12:00
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drycafelh: thanks, yes more coordination next year would be great and considered a (really big) privilege12:02
drycafelh: and if anyone threatens your life the wrath of at least 3000 mentors would be upon them :)12:03
lhdrycafe: that's so kind of you. :)12:05
lhdrycafe: just sent this out via identi.ca and twitter, let's hope it helps12:05
solydzajslh: who requested the transfer of Mono application to GNOME ? do we need confirmation from student ?12:06
lhsolydzajs: it was sandy|lurk and i am ok with going ahead. i trust sandy.12:06
lhsandy|lurk: the student knows you plan to do this, yes?12:06
sandy|lurklh: yes12:06
drycafelh: thanks so much, more publicity helps greatly12:06
solydzajssandy|lurk: ok so Mono admin agreed too ?12:06
sandy|lurksolydzajs: yes, they requested it of me12:07
lhsandy|lurk: fantastic.12:07
solydzajssandy|lurk: ok working on it12:07
sandy|lurkwould you like them to hop in here and conrim?12:07
solydzajssandy|lurk: all the previous comments will be deleted12:07
lhsolydzajs: sandy|lurk knows mjhutch well, we're good12:07
sandy|lurkok, thanks12:07
lhdrycafe: you're most welcome12:07
solydzajssandy|lurk: and score will be set to 012:07
sandy|lurksolydzajs: makes perfect sense12:07
solydzajssandy|lurk: ok give me 5 minutes12:07
lhdrycafe: i am hoping that some of your students and mentors may want to help with patches to melange. :)12:07
drycafesolydzajs: thanks for the GenMAPP->NESCent switch for us - greatly appreciated!12:07
solydzajsdrycafe: no problem :-)12:08
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drycafelh: I'm hoping that too, though only one of the mentors actually speaks python :-)12:09
lhdrycafe: one more person to help is one more than we had before.  :)12:10
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solydzajssandy|lurk: done.12:13
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sandy|lurksolydzajs: thanks!12:14
solydzajssandy|lurk: check if it works please :-)12:14
sandy|lurkI see it has moved12:15
sandy|lurkin Mono, it was the #1 ranked proposal, now the top proposal has rank "2"12:15
sandy|lurkbut I guess that's all relative12:15
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sandy|lurksolydzajs: also, possible mentors are still filled in, but in our case that is ok because we have the same people in GNOME12:15
solydzajssandy|lurk: ok I need to remove possible mentors one sec12:16
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sandy|lurksolydzajs: please let me know when it's safe to edit :-)12:18
solydzajssandy|lurk: ok will do12:18
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solydzajssandy|lurk: ok possible mentors removed. What was the problem with the rank again ?12:25
sandy|lurksolydzajs: well I don't know if it is a problem.  This proposal was the top proposal in Mono, so it had a rank of "1".  Now the top proposal in Mono has a rank of "2"12:26
sandy|lurkis that a problem?12:26
solydzajsnope shouldn't be12:26
sandy|lurkokay, thanks again12:27
sandy|lurkreally appreciate the help12:27
solydzajsno problem :-)12:27
solydzajsglad I could help12:27
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* SRabbelier is back :)12:40
lhSRabbelier: woot.12:44
SRabbeliertime for dinner though :D12:44
SRabbelierneed f00d first12:44
lhyay food.12:44
SRabbelierlh: nom nom ^_^12:45
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* SRabbelier is back13:13
kblinagain?13:14
kblin:)13:14
SRabbelieryup!13:14
SRabbelierback from dinner this time13:14
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lhSRabbelier: how goeth the codeth?13:47
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SRabbelierlh: well :)13:49
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lhSRabbelier: rock, let me know when you commit. :)13:49
SRabbelierlh: I will13:50
SRabbelier:)13:50
lhSRabbelier: merci, danke, thank you, gracias.13:51
* lh forgot thank you in dutch13:51
SRabbelierlh: same as german, only with a 'j' between the k an the e13:52
lhdankje13:52
* lh makes note13:52
* SRabbelier smiles13:52
SRabbeliermadrazr: ping13:56
madrazrSRabbelier: pong13:56
SRabbeliermadrazr: what about the problem with the publicly available comments with your patch?13:57
madrazrSRabbelier: you mean, I need to fix it now?13:57
madrazrSRabbelier: as in what to do about it?13:57
SRabbeliermadrazr: the latter13:58
madrazrSRabbelier: I think it is not good to commit it now because of the problem that Lennie told13:58
SRabbeliermadrazr: ok13:58
madrazrSRabbelier: I will fix it up as soon as possible13:58
madrazrbut wanted a design decision from you guys13:58
madrazrSRabbelier: I am just thought of sending in a context variable to the template. if not the right user, don't show comment and public reviews box at all13:59
madrazrSRabbelier: is it feasible?13:59
SRabbeliermadrazr: mhhh, I think it'd actually be easier to create a new view14:00
madrazrSRabbelier: Ok fine14:00
madrazrSRabbelier: but the issue is with the URLs14:00
madrazrit just a human tendency to copy paste the URL :P14:01
madrazrSRabbelier: how do we take care of 2 different URLs?14:01
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SRabbeliermadrazr: hmmmm, we can redirect to the new /comment page if the user is logged in an is the student?14:04
madrazrSRabbelier: yeah sure, if thats Ok to you14:04
madrazrwill do the same14:04
mordanteshort question I see melange got another update and the default for comments is now public instead of private, is that intentionally?14:04
SRabbeliermordante: no, it's fixed and will be changed back to private14:05
SRabbeliermadrazr: + with the next release14:05
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madrazrSRabbelier: when is the next release?14:05
mordanteSRabbelier, ok thanks for the info14:05
SRabbeliermadrazr: tonight14:05
madrazrSRabbelier: awesome!14:06
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SRabbeliermadrazr: but neither of your patches are applied yet :(14:06
madrazrSRabbelier: No problemo!14:06
SRabbeliermadrazr: oh, ok :)14:06
madrazrSRabbelier: I won't worry much about being applied. I worry if it is not reviewed well!14:06
madrazr:)14:06
SRabbeliermadrazr: hheehe, no worries about that14:07
madrazrSRabbelier: :)14:07
* SRabbelier goes back to coding14:07
* madrazr goes for dinner14:07
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StivoI have looked on the web, but I dont know what to search for: can a mentor currently unlock a proposal for the student to be edited?14:17
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* lh nudges SRabbelier gently14:19
sandy|lurklh, SRabbelier: another proposal relocation request :-) http://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=56814:19
tpb<http://ln-s.net/37KG> (at code.google.com)14:19
SRabbeliersandy|lurk: please to mail pawel.solyga at gmail dot com14:20
lhsandy|lurk: please emai melange-soc for it so we can keep track on list. :)14:21
* lh will poke solydzajs to look14:21
sandy|lurkI of course emailed the list first :-)14:21
lhsandy|lurk: perfecto14:21
sandy|lurkthanks again lh14:21
lhSRabbelier: sorry, think it is best to track these on list than in private mail14:21
lhsandy|lurk: no problem14:21
SRabbelierlh: at least tell them to cc pawel too14:22
lhsandy|lurk: please to do as SRabbelier has asked.14:22
sandy|lurkon it14:22
lhjenred, Stivo: this feature has not yet been implemented.14:22
Stivolh: Ok. So I will just leave a comment then14:23
Stivothanks14:23
SRabbelierStivo: we have a patch on file though14:23
SRabbelierStivo: hopefully we'll have time to review and commit it for the release after this one14:23
StivoSRabbelier: sounds good14:24
SRabbelierStivo: (the current release is focussed on getting slot allocations done)14:24
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madrazrSRabbelier: btw I finally setup hg subversion today. Hope I won't go mad again to create subsequent patches before the previous ones get committed ;-)14:40
SRabbeliermadrazr: sweet!14:41
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ArthurLiuSRabbelier, could you make eligible again some of our proposals ?15:43
SRabbelierArthurLiu: you can do that yourself by now :)15:44
ArthurLiureally ?15:44
ArthurLiucool15:44
SRabbelierArthurLiu: yeah, just go to the page15:44
SRabbelierArthurLiu: you can push the button :)15:44
madrazrSRabbelier: I am leaving now. Good night15:56
SRabbeliermadrazr: ok, see you :)15:57
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lhSRabbelier: what is an admin comment? this is a new feature, and i think it means comments visible to admins only16:20
SRabbelierlh: no16:21
SRabbelierlh: it means a regular comment, but you can set rank and assigned mentor16:21
ArthurLiueven lh is confused :D16:21
SRabbelierlh: if you have a suggestion for a better name16:21
lhArthurLiu: my friend, that is not helpful.16:21
SRabbelierArthurLiu: please do speak up16:21
ArthurLiuI have a ticket up about that16:21
lhSRabbelier: ok got it now, thanks. i will document it.16:21
ArthurLiuI suggested "admin action" and remove the comment part altogether16:21
SRabbelierArthurLiu: what's that?16:21
SRabbelierArthurLiu: oh, mhhh16:22
ArthurLiuand let the admin either put a public or private comment, or both16:22
SRabbelierArthurLiu: didn't the comments in the issue trail off into that people want the ocmment part?16:22
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ArthurLiuhttp://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=553 here16:23
tpb<http://ln-s.net/36rU> (at code.google.com)16:23
ArthurLiuthe "admin action" thing should be extracted from the "comment" dropdown list16:23
ArthurLiuand put as a radio button allowing to do admin actions (the other being "public/private comment", allowing to choose public or private from the dropdown)16:24
ArthurLiuadmin action should also include "mark ineligible", as it is the same stuff16:25
ArthurLiuadmin action would show as "mentor" action if mentor, and include "willing to mentor"16:25
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ArthurLiuI think it is much more intuitive and homogenous that way16:25
ArthurLiuSRabbelier, what do you think ?16:25
SRabbelierArthurLiu: I know 0 about UI design16:26
SRabbelierArthurLiu: and so far the changes we've heard from the mentors have been so diverse16:26
SRabbelierArthurLiu: I am not going to change anything until that issue gets the 42 required stars16:27
ArthurLiuI made a graphical package manager for last year's gsoc :D16:27
SRabbelierit's got 216:27
ArthurLiuhum16:27
lhArthurLiu: this is something that can be worked on in the future.16:27
lhSRabbelier: i am going for lunch now, i think pawel will be back soon to do the release.16:28
lh:)16:28
James--CrookArthurLiu: 3 stars now.16:28
ArthurLiuI'm copying what I said in the issue16:28
SRabbelierlh: ok, enjoy16:28
SRabbelierArthurLiu: go for it16:28
James--CrookArthurLiu said "The Melange team is awesome. " in issue 553 (additional information section).  That must be what he intended to say here.16:30
ArthurLiummh? :)16:30
James--Crook..ah got it...  I joined AFTER you re-posted your comment from issue 553.16:31
ArthurLiuJames--Crook, you sound confused16:32
James--CrookSo I took 'I am copying...' as a statement of future intent.16:32
ArthurLiuit's also16:32
James--Crookrather than what you had already done.16:32
ArthurLiujust added it: http://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=553#c616:32
tpb<http://ln-s.net/37Mp> (at code.google.com)16:32
ArthurLiuyou were both wrong and right16:32
James--CrookRefreshing...16:33
James--Crookgot iy now.16:33
James--Crooks/iy/it/16:33
James--CrookArthurLiu: whilst you're here, is that your top care-about for melange as it is now?16:34
ArthurLiuI had a few other gripes but they've been fixed, including one I wrote the patch for myself :)16:35
James--CrookAwesome.  Which issue was the patch for?16:35
ArthurLiumake the tinymce text editor resizable16:35
ArthurLiuI have a big screen :)16:36
James--Crookhttp://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=40216:36
tpb<http://ln-s.net/37Mt> (at code.google.com)16:36
ArthurLiuyes16:37
James--CrookYep.  Very useful.16:37
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James--CrookArthurLiu:  Are you mentoring this year?16:38
ArthurLiuI'm admin for Debian16:38
ArthurLiuI was a student for Debian last year16:39
ArthurLiubut not mentoring, yet16:39
ArthurLiuI don't have DD status yet, it takes a while to go through the vetting process16:39
James--CrookCool.  I wonder how many students become admins there are!  Not many I would expect.16:39
James--CrookYes, debian care about quality / security from what I have seen.16:40
ArthurLiuwe release when it's ready :)16:41
James--CrookWow.  I've just seen Debian had 11 students last year!  Willing to share rough number of applicants this year?16:43
ArthurLiu42 :)16:44
ArthurLiuwe're targetting 13 keepers16:44
James--CrookAnd somehow I know you are not kidding...16:44
James--CrookWe had 25 (non spam) applicants last year, and are about half that this year, but there is a very good reason.16:45
James--CrookAll our project ideas on the wiki were aspects of getting Audacity release ready... so bugfixing was the main one... then UI de-niggling...  feature completions....  less scope for blue skies proposals.16:46
ArthurLiuyeah, we had about a hundred proposals last year I was told16:46
James--CrookOMG :-)16:47
ArthurLiuwe had that too16:47
ArthurLiuhttp://wiki.debian.org/SummerOfCode2009#Projectproposals most of them sound "what is that?"16:47
tpb<http://ln-s.net/37N-> (at wiki.debian.org)16:47
James--Crook..looking...16:48
ArthurLiuquite arcane stuff too16:48
James--CrookTalk to me about debuggs16:49
James--CrookI mean debbugs16:49
ArthurLiu:)16:49
James--CrookWhy mail based?  Historical reasons?16:50
ArthurLiuold-school people :)16:51
James--Crookold-school often has good reason....  I'm just thinking it through....16:52
ArthurLiuthere's the innate fear that opening it to anyone without registration would open the door to spam and useless bug reports/comments and uncontactable bug submitters16:52
James--Crook+1  Excellent.16:52
ArthurLiuthe debbugswebui proposal tries to strike a balance16:52
James--CrookSo automatic guarantee that poster of bug is easily contactable.16:53
ArthurLiubetween the user unfriendliness of mail based systems and the (sometimes) unusefulness of Launchpad for example16:53
James--CrookLaunchpad unuseful?  Specifics?16:53
ArthurLiutoo many "me too" bug comments, comments that suggest clueless solutions, etc16:55
ArthurLiubut that's not entirely due to the web nature16:55
James--CrookSo something like a wiki where you can keep distilling the comments down would be good...16:56
ArthurLiuwell, the web ui doesn't intend to provide more functionalities than the current mail interface16:57
ArthurLiubut offer new workflow possibilities16:57
ArthurLiumake it easier to triage bugs, etc16:57
James--CrookForwarding mails to different lists or some such?  Or something else?16:58
James--CrookOr webui acts as a filter on *any* mail archive, and you can choose to use it for the debbugs mail lists?16:59
James--CrookWhere I'm coming from...  I've been wanting the ease of gmail tags in bugzilla.  The bugzilla tagging interface creaks.17:00
* kblin waves at James--Crook 17:05
kblinJames--Crook: there's actually some students-turned admins I guess17:05
kblinJames--Crook: gsoc alumni are more likely to care about gsoc17:05
* James--Crook waves at kblin17:07
James--Crooktrue...17:08
ArthurLiuanother annoying issue with launchpad is that it's proprietary and closed source :)17:08
lhJames--Crook: agreed.17:08
James--Crookbut methinks it's a big jump to go from student to admin in an org with (say) 100 proposals....17:09
ArthurLiuI did have some help to get set up but I'm actually the one in charge17:09
ArthurLiuwhich is pretty cool17:09
James--Crookkblin: I've had more of a look at launchpad now...  and I like it.17:09
ArthurLiuquite time consuming though17:09
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James--CrookArthurLiu: Busiest period was the selction period, at least for Audacity last year it was...17:10
James--Crookkblin: I like being able to easily transfer issues between different kinds of lists...17:10
James--Crookand the blueprint looks like a sensible way to link a list to wiki.17:11
* kblin nods17:11
James--Crookbut, it all feels a bit inflexible.  like I am constrained to using their flow.17:11
ArthurLiuI also have a debconf panel talk and maybe some debcamp stuff to organize for GSoC students at DebConf9 in Spain this july :)17:11
James--CrookAnd, ArthurLiu's point... it i snot open source...  and will not be.17:11
kblinJames--Crook: sure, it was more like "look at the cool features you would need" rathern than "why not use launchpad instead"17:12
James--Crook(I saw july 2009 somewhere as a date for open sourcing it, but that seems to only be the top levels)17:12
ArthurLiuthe debian bug tracking system allows you to naturally forward back and forth when necessary bugs from mailing lists to the tracker17:13
James--Crookkblin: I didn't see all that many cool features, or at any rate hard features, once you get past the nice graphic design.17:13
kblinArthurLiu: I was not meaning to belittle the work admining for a huge project like debian is17:13
James--CrookIt's forms plus wiki, nicely done, but with fixed forms.17:13
kblinJames--Crook: it's nice and integrated17:13
ArthurLiukblin, :)17:13
James--CrookIt does what it sets out to do well.  Yes.17:13
kblinJames--Crook: for a small project like wombat, it's got all the stuff I need to manage it, in one stop17:14
kblinJames--Crook: if I could host my source code in it, it'd be perfect17:14
kblingoogle code isn't too bad either17:14
ArthurLiuthe all integrated launchpad application design is *way* too constraining for debian developers who work in all kinds of different ways17:14
James--Crookkblin: but take your example, if you wanted to add an artist workflow to it, it is too rigid to make that easily possible (even if it were open source)17:14
kblinJames--Crook: I've yet to see an open source tool that allows for easy artist management17:15
kblinJames--Crook: apart from the one I'm working on ;)17:15
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James--CrookOK.  So has to display assets.  What are the concept barriers in existing trackers that get in the way?17:16
kblinJames--Crook: most trackers assume that you can diff the stuff tracked17:18
kblinor have patches17:18
James--CrookThat's greg wilsons general-diff initiative...  Would help there?  Trigger content specific diffs based on mime type he said...17:19
kblinalso, as a developer, getting stuff out of a tracker in order to be able to use it is clumsy17:19
kblinyou can't diff pictures17:19
James--CrookI rememebr it because we were interested in an audio diff...17:19
kblinthere's no sensible way to do this17:19
James--CrookWell... panatools do a kind of diff to join up images, but I agree, not in general you can't.17:19
kblincreating artwork is much less iterative than coding17:20
James--Crookpicture diffs, you need side-by-side and let the human do it.  I can see how trying to extend git to artwork would be a challenge!17:21
kblinat least it's hard to split it into isolated steps17:21
kblinJames--Crook: especially as a media repository on git would be huge17:21
James--Crook..though later steps in model building you could perhaps.  but then that is more17:21
James--Crookalgorithmic anyway.17:21
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ArthurLiukblin, photoshop supports the "snapshot" concept, something like this ?17:22
kblinArthurLiu: but the diff doesn't make sense..17:22
kblinimagine someone's touching up a photo...17:22
kblinone step might be to smudge out skin irregularities17:23
ArthurLiuI suppose the internal representation of the actions history would be a first step17:23
ArthurLiuI have no idea how graphics programs implement that17:23
James--Crookso for artwork the ideal artist tracker can only really track meta data...  and the art lives in some sense outside it, and is presented by it in clever ways.  I love the idea of making assets that are used more show larger in the overview...17:23
James--CrookI think that's very neat concept.17:23
ArthurLiustandardise everyone on POVray :)17:24
kblinArthurLiu: haha, yeah17:24
kblinArthurLiu: may current 3D programs could export to Collada, which attempts to be a standardized format17:24
kblinit's xml-based, too17:24
kblinit's completely overdesigned and crap17:25
ArthurLiuxml is like violence, if it doesn't work, use more17:25
kblinso every artist will use his own toolchain17:25
James--Crookkblin: and that is part of artistry...  part of having a style, a look.17:26
ArthurLiuthe Adobe DNG format is an epic fail too17:26
kblinJames--Crook: yeah, ideally you need to track dependencies17:26
kblinJames--Crook: like 3d models consist of the mesh, the skeletton (with animations) and textures17:26
kblinsometimes it makes sense to track these by file, sometimes you only care about the whole model17:27
* James--Crook nods17:27
kblinand relationships are not always easy to determine automatically17:28
kblinfor example WorldForge uses texture templates17:28
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kblinso let's assume you have multiple animal models17:29
kblinthey all map their meshes to the same texture template17:29
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kblinwhich allows you to use textures on different models17:29
James--CrookI worked in an animation studio some years ago.  Because of slowness of renderring we had different models for different points of view...  back of alligator, lots of detail when seen from above, much less/different for from the side.17:29
merbananhow do I mark an application as eligible again ?17:29
kblinsometimes that makes sense, e.g. using a wolf texture on a pig makes it look like a wild boar17:30
merbanannever mind me I'm stupid17:30
kblinthe other way around doesn't work so well17:30
James--Crookmerbanan: not stupid.  many people have asked.17:30
ArthurLiumerbanan, you might be inclined to star this : http://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=553 :)17:31
kblinyet you still want to track the possible textures from each mesh17:31
tpb<http://ln-s.net/36rU> (at code.google.com)17:31
James--Crookkblin: :-)17:31
merbananI guess the feature appear17:31
James--Crook553 yay 4 stars,...17:31
merbanan*ed a few days ago17:31
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ArthurLiunext one to popup asking where the "assign admin" action is on mentors list, I hawk my melange issue :D17:32
kblinmerbanan: it's a new google thing, they just forgot to write "beta" all over melange ;)17:32
ArthurLiuit's like gmail, but the other way around :)17:32
merbananok, anyway my issue is resolved17:33
kblinJames--Crook: I don't claim to understand all the implications, I'm not an artist, I just used to play one on TV17:33
James--Crookkblin: we'll know we have made good progress when we DO have beta written on it.17:34
James--Crookkblin: wow!17:34
kblinJames--Crook: actually I'm kidding. I just tried being a concept artist before I turned to coding :)17:34
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James--Crookkblin: I'm guessing the derivation process for art assets is very manual at the moment?17:34
kblinJames--Crook: totally17:35
James--Crooki.e not a clean system like scons for example?17:35
James--Crookwhich could be adapted?17:35
kblinyou want artists to edit text files? :)17:35
James--Crookrofl :-)17:35
James--Crookbut the people who use the art could...17:36
James--Crookbut I see the problem.17:36
kblinI think one of our client devs has a script that will fetch the game art from the repo, do some preparation work on it and then build the media tarball17:36
ArthurLiukblin, what about editing GNU Makefiles, listing every texture you're using, with [email protected], $< and $^ all around ?17:36
James--Crookare they using open source apps all the way along the pipeline?17:37
kblinyou're kidding17:37
James--CrookArthurLiu: I think you should teach artists to use autoconf.17:37
kblinever tried using blender?17:37
ArthurLiunightmares17:37
kblinit's getting better, but compared to maya or 3dsmax the interface is pretty.. rough17:38
kblinI never really did 3d stuff, though. I can only repeat what I hear from our artists17:39
James--Crookkblin: OK. So that puts an upper limit on what can be achieved with good scripting and cooperation from the 'art software'.17:39
kblinI think I modelled a mushroom once17:39
James--Crookphah.  That's nothing.  I can do a monkey.  :-)17:40
kblinJames--Crook: that's why I think the asset management software should take care of that17:40
James--Crookright17:40
James--Crookadmittedly it looked very like the stock example.17:40
James--Crookthen I went back to cubes.17:41
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kblinJames--Crook: ideally, you also provide an API for all of these features so you can write plug-ins for the tools the artists use17:41
James--CrookWe've just started in that direction on audacity.17:43
James--Crookby that I mean a proper plug in api, not just effects.17:43
James--Crookso that third part controlling apps can hook up to it.17:44
James--CrookBut closed source apps will fight you tooth and nail there.17:45
kblinnah, not for the 3D modelling world17:45
kblinat least to do import/export plugins is a common thing17:45
kblinmostly because about every game engine has it's own file format17:46
kblinsame for the movie stuff, I guess17:46
kblinso a lot of closed source apps come with a plugin SDK17:47
kblinhow did we get into this topic again?17:51
* kblin goes read scrollback17:51
ArthurLiubug tracking stuff17:52
kblinyeah17:53
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kblinright, how launchpad was unuseable for tracking debian bugs17:54
kblinI still think the main problem ubuntu bug tracking has is the people using it :)17:55
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kblinoh18:01
* kblin eyes issue 41618:02
kblinI totally used lower case letters for the "lower ASCII" stuff :)18:02
kblinoh well18:02
* lh goes to look at issue 41618:02
lhoh that one.18:02
lhyou know i hate to say this18:02
lhbut you know where that comes from?18:02
lhi was trying to figure out how to say "nothing that does not appear on a keyboard from the usa" correctly two years ago18:03
lhso i asked the then fiance, figuring since he was a leet programmer and what not that he'd know.18:03
lhi suggested ascii18:03
lhhe said that was wrong, it's lower ascii18:03
lhand hence the namage18:03
kblinha18:03
* lh secretly gloats that said ex-"leet" dude had head in rear on that one18:04
kblinI really haven't encountered that term before18:04
kblinno real harm done, of course :)18:04
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lhkblin: i just think it's hillarious. it's also, methinks, a valuable lesson. it's really easy to think "oh dude, you just don't get it" about newbies or those less well versed than you, but then again *no one* knows everything. :)18:06
lhor even everything correctly18:06
* kblin doesn't trust programmers as far as he can toss them18:08
SRabbelierkblin: s/as far as/further than/18:08
kblinI tried with myself, and I can't toss myself very far18:08
kblinSRabbelier: whatever18:08
lhkblin: lol. that's awesome.18:11
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kblinso, just out of curiosity, was there any consensus on keeping that weird tinymce or dropping it in favour for that wiki-like markup?18:11
* lh favors dropping for wiki like markup18:15
lhhowever, i do not think consensus has been achieved. there is also the question of preserving existing data to consider.18:15
kblinwell, probably insane doing so during gsoc18:18
kblinthat's more one of these "next year" features18:18
lhkblin: agreed.18:19
* lh adds to agenda for roadmap discussion18:19
kblinanyway, bedtime for me18:22
lhkblin: rest well :)18:23
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SRabbelierkblin: g'night :)18:35
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anothy_xas a mentor or admin, is there a way to view which proposals, if any, a given mentor has indicated willingness to mentor for? or is the csv export my best bet?20:01
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anothy_xtwo questions about ranks:20:41
anothy_x1) an admin-assigned rank overrides whatever the score is, correct? including in light of future score changes?20:41
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anothy_x2) assuming some are ranked and some aren't, are the ranked ones lumped at top, with the rest fallling below, in what would otherwise be their order?20:42
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