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| msh | has anyone looked at somehow combining packing and placing in nextpnr? experimenting here I see a fmax speedup (at a cost of slices) if I remove the FF packing in pack_remaining_luts. I assume some packed FFs are useful but some harm timing - after placing it'd be known. this is ecp5 | 11:05 |
|---|---|---|
| lofty | msh: you want to do exactly the opposite, really | 11:09 |
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| gatecat | msh: it's complicated; newer arches tend to place the two seperately but that doesn't always help matters | 11:20 |
| gatecat | I had a go doing this for ECP5 a year or two ago and it didn't really help overall | 11:20 |
| Sarayan | Theoretically you can jointly optimize the cost function (e.g. fmax) jointly, but I suspect the search space is insane | 11:21 |
| Sarayan | (remove jointly to taste) | 11:21 |
| Sarayan | it's probably a very fun and very complicated research field actually | 11:22 |
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| Sarayan | especially since you're optimizing a max, and that's always a pain because you can change a lot of stuff without changing a max | 11:23 |
| Sarayan | and if you optimize a mean, or a mean square, you can end up with a very high max | 11:24 |
| msh | hm right. my thought was to try greedily unpacking paired ff/luts near yhe critical path | 11:24 |
| msh | lofty: what do you mean by opposite sorry? | 11:24 |
| gatecat | msh: it's a big, PITA, patch but ultimately the fix would be to make FFs and LUTs separate bels like Nexus | 11:25 |
| gatecat | and then manipulating them seperately is much easier | 11:25 |
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| lofty | And like Mistral! :p | 11:25 |
| Sarayan | fwiw they seem to be separate in quartus | 11:25 |
| lofty | Effectively the placer decides the packing | 11:25 |
| gatecat | e.g. you could do https://github.com/YosysHQ/nextpnr/pull/863 but only if criticality is less then some unit | 11:25 |
| msh | ah *nod* | 11:26 |
| gatecat | my predecessor's attempt at implementing the former part was https://github.com/YosysHQ/nextpnr/tree/dave/ecp5-split-bels and https://github.com/YosysHQ/prjtrellis/tree/split_slice | 11:28 |
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| Sarayan | I know Micko is kinda afraid of the legal issues, but I dream of a llvm-of-fpga with yosys, nextpnr, mistral and its friends in one tree (you can add amaranth in there too, I wouldn't mind). It would be nice for experimenting with the fundamental algorithms while having the simplicity of use of a software compiler (at least the good ones) | 11:30 |
| lofty | Just throw GHDL in there and now everything is GPL :P | 11:31 |
| Sarayan | what's ghdl? | 11:32 |
| Sarayan | (I wouldn't mind throwing an equivalent of gtkwave in there though) | 11:32 |
| Sarayan | ghdl = vhdl frontend for that beast + cxxrtl? | 11:33 |
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| lofty | Sarayan: yeah | 12:14 |
| msh | gatecat: those patches are "working" but don't give a benefit? | 13:19 |
| gatecat | they worked a couple of years ago | 13:19 |
| msh | *nod* thanks. I'll have a play around with them | 13:20 |
| gatecat | have fun! | 13:20 |
| gatecat | if they are at all promising then I'm happy to have a go at getting them back up to date | 13:21 |
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| Sarayan | hi, when I clean -dfx then do a make config-clang then make install, I'm getting a weird error: | 18:25 |
| Sarayan | [ 99%] Building abc/abc-f6fa2dd | 18:25 |
| Sarayan | ERROR: ABC contains local modifications! Set ABCREV=default in Yosys Makefile! | 18:25 |
| Sarayan | make: *** [Makefile:745: abc/abc-f6fa2dd] Error 1 | 18:25 |
| Sarayan | I'm in sync with origin/master | 18:26 |
| Sarayan | oh, it's a friggin' submodule | 18:27 |
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