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| StupidIncarnate | hey all | 04:31 |
|---|---|---|
| llnz | hi StupidIncarnate | 04:46 |
| llnz | mithro: see the request to contribute to a book on software architecture last week? | 04:49 |
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| cool_coder | hi | 05:02 |
| cool_coder | I'm a third year electrical engineering student at National University of Singapore looking forward to participate in Google summer of code 2010. I noticed that Thousand Parsec was accepted as a mentoring organization. After looking at the project ideas, I have decided to apply for the project on cloning an existing game in thousand parsec. | 05:04 |
| cool_coder | i would like to know what is expected from a student applicant | 05:05 |
| cool_coder | can some one help? | 05:05 |
| cool_coder | thanks | 05:05 |
| cool_coder | :) | 05:05 |
| tansell | llnz, yeah - I've been pondering it | 05:07 |
| llnz | tansell: me too | 05:07 |
| tansell | I wouldn't call Thousand Parsec all that beautiful :) | 05:07 |
| llnz | tansell: but the architecture is still the same | 05:08 |
| llnz | more or less | 05:08 |
| tansell | well, maybe the new protocol library | 05:08 |
| llnz | cool_coder: have you read this page: http://www.thousandparsec.net/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code | 05:08 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/1ffR> (at www.thousandparsec.net) | 05:08 |
| tansell | I'm not sure I have the time to write anything either | 05:08 |
| cool_coder | yups | 05:09 |
| cool_coder | i have read it | 05:09 |
| cool_coder | I have been mainly using Windows (Visual Studio 2010 with TFS) for gaming till now. I would like to know if you have any specific requirememnts. | 05:10 |
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| llnz | cool_coder: specific requirements? like what? | 05:11 |
| llnz | over here in the channel cool_coder... | 05:12 |
| cool_coder | ok... :) | 05:12 |
| llnz | things like your expirence you should put in your application | 05:12 |
| llnz | proposal that is | 05:12 |
| cool_coder | ok .... | 05:12 |
| cool_coder | Do you have something like an application template | 05:13 |
| cool_coder | or do I decide what to put in? | 05:13 |
| llnz | have a look at the "writing proposals" section of our GSoC page | 05:14 |
| llnz | we will also give you feedback on your proposal directly, and you can make changes right up to the deadline | 05:14 |
| cool_coder | ohh ok | 05:16 |
| cool_coder | :) | 05:16 |
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| cool_coder | i am afraid there are not much details in the writing proposals section... | 05:19 |
| cool_coder | or am i missing something? | 05:20 |
| cool_coder | anyways i will draft one asap | 05:20 |
| cool_coder | any feedback is appreciated | 05:20 |
| cool_coder | also, do we need to put in the high level specs? | 05:21 |
| cool_coder | just found the tips for writing proposals | 05:23 |
| cool_coder | :) | 05:23 |
| StupidIncarnate | For the new things to tp04, it lists a research support. What exactly is that? | 05:27 |
| StupidIncarnate | I'm not sure if my vague idea is correct | 05:28 |
| llnz | StupidIncarnate: that is being able to research technologies, know what you know about the technologies, and know what technologies the other players have | 05:28 |
| llnz | so like the tech tree in Civilization, etc | 05:28 |
| StupidIncarnate | ah ok | 05:29 |
| StupidIncarnate | is it still being defined? | 05:29 |
| llnz | sort of | 05:29 |
| StupidIncarnate | errr implimented* | 05:29 |
| llnz | no one has started implementing it yet | 05:29 |
| StupidIncarnate | guess I won't deal with it then | 05:31 |
| llnz | the design isn't quite finished, it's on the wiki | 05:31 |
| llnz | it wouldn't take much to get it finished and start implementing it | 05:32 |
| llnz | it's not too difficult | 05:32 |
| llnz | time to run | 05:32 |
| * llnz wanders off | 05:32 | |
| llnz | later all | 05:32 |
| StupidIncarnate | see yeah | 05:32 |
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| StupidIncarnate | hmmm, on the media support for tp04, is that just making sure to select the right images and whatnot for a specific game? | 08:06 |
| tansell | StupidIncarnate, it means that the server tells the client which media to use | 08:21 |
| StupidIncarnate | does it send the location of that media as well or is the client supposed to know where it is already? | 08:22 |
| StupidIncarnate | if we're talking about the web client | 08:23 |
| StupidIncarnate | actually it has to have it since there's multiple clients | 08:23 |
| StupidIncarnate | nevermind | 08:23 |
| StupidIncarnate | so just the name and whatnot then? | 08:24 |
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| JLP | good morning everyone | 08:35 |
| null_000 | morning world | 08:35 |
| StupidIncarnate | morning | 08:35 |
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| Epyon_ | Anyone seen llnz? | 08:40 |
| StupidIncarnate | bit ago, went out | 08:40 |
| Epyon_ | dang | 08:40 |
| StupidIncarnate | err hours ago* | 08:40 |
| null_000 | you can always check the logs for details | 08:40 |
| Epyon_ | nash, tansell, ping? | 08:43 |
| tansell | Epyon_, pong? | 08:43 |
| Epyon_ | Ah great | 08:43 |
| Epyon_ | tansell, you can probably answer my question if you have a moment? | 08:43 |
| * nash waves | 08:43 | |
| Epyon_ | :) | 08:44 |
| tansell | possibly | 08:44 |
| tansell | I'm a bit in at out atm | 08:44 |
| Epyon_ | I've spent a couple of hours thinking about tpserver concurrency | 08:44 |
| tansell | sure, what about it? | 08:45 |
| Epyon_ | And the solutions I've come up with are quite surprising -- seems that with a proper reorganization, there's no need for any mutexes/concurrency at all | 08:45 |
| tansell | Epyon_, why is that surprising? | 08:45 |
| Epyon_ | if I understand correctly, each player only needs to "communicate" with his own data, right? | 08:46 |
| Epyon_ | And with the universe/game data only in read-only mode | 08:46 |
| Epyon_ | Then when the turn end comes, you just update the state of the world by using the player supplied orders | 08:46 |
| Epyon_ | Am I correct, or is there something I overlooked? | 08:46 |
| tansell | Epyon_, well, you need to lock the players out from making changes while the turn generation occurs | 08:47 |
| tansell | but otherwise your pretty much right | 08:47 |
| Epyon_ | Hence, if we divided the persistence properly, there'd be no write conflics... and read conflicts could be prevented by making sure we load all needed data from persistence to memore | 08:47 |
| tansell | how could you have read conflicts if the data never changed? | 08:48 |
| Epyon_ | tansell, yes, but I'd need to do that anyway :) | 08:48 |
| Epyon_ | tansell, read on modification... | 08:48 |
| Epyon_ | tansell, also the question if a given persistence model has concurrent read support | 08:49 |
| tansell | I'm not sure what you mean by concurrent read support? | 08:49 |
| Epyon_ | for example if it would be state-full then we might have clashes on a concurrent read | 08:49 |
| Epyon_ | but that's not much of an issue | 08:49 |
| tansell | Epyon_, I still don't understand the problem you are currently describing | 08:50 |
| Epyon_ | tansell, thats okay, I still have problems with comunicating it but it seems clear now :) | 08:51 |
| Epyon_ | proper design = no concurrent write, and concurrent read is harmless if we make sure that the persistence doesn't depend on any state (e.g. doesn't modify anything) | 08:52 |
| Epyon_ | tansell, so now the main question -- I already prepared a network side proposal of the project -- with boost.asio at the center. Should I expand it with the asynchronous data flow project, or should I write it up as a separate project? | 08:54 |
| tansell | Epyon_, would have to ask llnz about that I'm afraid | 08:54 |
| tansell | Epyon_, I would like to see tests in tpserver-cpp personally | 08:55 |
| Epyon_ | Both of them are tightly bound together -- for example the boost::asio asynchronous model is a lot better than the plain boost::thread method | 08:55 |
| Epyon_ | Unit tests of blackbox tests? | 08:56 |
| tansell | both | 08:56 |
| Epyon_ | Do have something that would work as a dummy client? | 08:57 |
| tansell | Epyon_, chat with null_000 about that | 08:58 |
| tansell | he has been thinking about using the AI to test the server | 08:58 |
| null_000 | I was thinking of focusing on an AI one could play against (and have some fun) | 08:59 |
| null_000 | not on a server-testing-AI (as a primary goal) | 08:59 |
| null_000 | but a bunch of AI playing can always find some bugs | 08:59 |
| null_000 | in a pure black box style (but there should be some code to test if everything went as planed) | 09:01 |
| Epyon_ | tests are at best when they can realiably repeat a failure... would the AI client be determinictic? | 09:08 |
| null_000 | yes they would or they could be made deterministic | 09:09 |
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| marcel_ | hi all and bye null | 09:11 |
| Epyon_ | tansell, also, I've got that tpservercpp Lua-ruleset builder proposal floating around -- shall I finish it up? | 09:11 |
| Epyon_ | null_000, is your ai-client going to be called null-ai? :D | 09:13 |
| null_000 | I will only extend daneel-ai so the client will still be called daneel-ai... but I might put null-ai somewhere ^_^ | 09:26 |
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| StupidIncarnate | What's an example of a possible aged property that needs to be displayed by the client? | 09:33 |
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| StupidIncarnate | Any aged property I can think up are for instance upgrades to ships, and in that case the property would just be replaced with the newer one | 09:34 |
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| StupidIncarnate | well, that's what I would assume anyway | 09:46 |
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| cool_coder | hi | 12:54 |
| cool_coder | i have made the first draft of my proposal | 12:55 |
| cool_coder | for GSoc | 12:55 |
| cool_coder | any feedback is appreciated | 12:56 |
| cool_coder | i have not included any high level specs though | 12:56 |
| cool_coder | http://www.thousandparsec.net/wiki/Http://www.example.net/wiki/Summer_of_code_cool_coder_tp#About_Me | 12:56 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/5_+-> (at www.thousandparsec.net) | 12:56 |
| ezod | cool_coder: i recommend putting your proposal in the gsoc app | 12:59 |
| cool_coder | ezod: i have submitted alr :) | 12:59 |
| mmaruseacph2 | hi | 13:00 |
| mmaruseacph2 | i've submitted my app both on the wiki page and on the gsoc site | 13:00 |
| mmaruseacph2 | if you have feedback or questions please contact me and i'll try to solve everything in at most 24 hours | 13:00 |
| cool_coder | i would like some feedback so that i can improve upon it | 13:00 |
| ezod | i'll be looking at everyone's proposals shortly | 13:01 |
| cool_coder | thanks a lot | 13:03 |
| mmaruseacph2 | thanks ezod :) | 13:04 |
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| epyon | woah, somebody stole my last years GSoC proposal for Boost :-/ | 15:09 |
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| marcel_ | Tell him its not allowed | 15:29 |
| epyon | marcel_, too late, it's already submitted to formal review (it was last years proposal) | 15:35 |
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| marcel_ | You cant remove proposals after submittion? | 15:38 |
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| epyon | marcel_, someone took my last years proposal, wrote a library and submitted it to boost | 16:08 |
| epyon | without any acknowledgement | 16:09 |
| null_000 | so someone implemented your idea? | 16:10 |
| epyon | yeah | 16:15 |
| null_000 | bummer... | 16:18 |
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| StupidIncarnate | is Greywhind around? | 16:25 |
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| isra17 | hey | 19:01 |
| ezod | isra17: hi | 19:11 |
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| isra17 | I'm trying to run tpserver-cpp but it kept stuck at adding a file descriptor | 19:19 |
| isra17 | and I can't connect with any client | 19:21 |
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| isra17 | nvm, the configuration file was not found... | 19:52 |
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| CIA-70 | llnz libtpproto-cpp * r1a18069f4771 / (10 files in 2 dirs): | 20:12 |
| CIA-70 | Update to m4 macros for Boost, and extra headers. | 20:12 |
| CIA-70 | Thanks to Marcel Hauf and JLP | 20:12 |
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| llnz | morning all | 20:40 |
| null_000 | evening llnz | 20:40 |
| llnz | hi null_000 | 20:41 |
| null_000 | (it's 22:40 PM here... thats the reason for evening) | 20:42 |
| llnz | 8:44am here | 20:44 |
| null_000 | that... new zealand right? | 20:46 |
| kerbe | 23:50 here (if anyone is interested. :P ) almost tomorrow already. :) | 20:50 |
| llnz | null_000: yeah | 20:50 |
| llnz | its also wednesday, so you are almost at today kerbe | 20:51 |
| null_000 | llnz: I've been there for 4 months... so I recognise the time difference | 20:52 |
| llnz | null_000: cool | 20:52 |
| llnz | :-) | 20:52 |
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| null_000 | llnz: beautiful country... and a bit like my country actually ^_^ | 20:53 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o llnz | 20:56 | |
| *** llnz changes topic to "Thousand Parsec - www.thousandparsec.net || Why not help out? - www.thousandparsec.net/wiki/Getting_started_with_development || Logs at www.thousandparsec.net/~irc/ || http://www.thousandparsec.net/planet || TP accepted to GSoC 2010! || Students: put your proposals on http://socghop.appspot.com/ now!" | 20:56 | |
| *** llnz sets mode: -o llnz | 20:56 | |
| llnz | i will have to visit there one day | 20:57 |
| null_000 | sure ^_^ | 20:57 |
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| epyon | llnz, have you read my email? | 21:05 |
| llnz | epyon: yes, will reply shortly | 21:05 |
| marcel_ | Is it possible to download different images for ships depending on the ruleset from the server? | 21:19 |
| llnz | marcel_: yes | 21:27 |
| marcel_ | Is that included in the protocol 3, 4 or a seperate protocol? | 21:30 |
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| llnz | 4, media parameter for objects | 21:51 |
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| isra17 | hello | 22:34 |
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