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| Appleman1234 | mithro: no just roleplaying for the moment | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| mithro | ahh well | 00:00 |
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| mithro | wb krazytekn0 | 00:07 |
| krazytekn0 | thanks mithro | 00:07 |
| mithro | hey jotham | 00:36 |
| mithro | you see the pyglet alpha? | 00:36 |
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| mithro | ~seen JLP | 00:53 |
| tpb | mithro: JLP was last seen in #tp 5 hours, 45 minutes, and 22 seconds ago: * JLP goes sleeping, see you in about 8 hours | 00:53 |
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| * llnz has problems with his xorg setup | 02:10 | |
| mithro | llnz: dang :/ | 02:26 |
| llnz | updated xorg has removed mergedFD, now trying to get xrandr to do the right thing | 02:27 |
| llnz | so currently have cloned screens | 02:28 |
| mithro | tpserver-py should work again | 02:30 |
| llnz | cool | 02:33 |
| mithro | llnz: do you want to help clean up the ideas page? The application process for GSoC starts late tommorrow (really Tuesday for us) | 02:33 |
| llnz | mithro: sure, i'll lend a hand | 02:33 |
| mithro | llnz: you where going to move the tpserver-cpp stuff to another page? | 02:35 |
| mithro | llnz: btw, your head makes multiple appearances in the Gaming Miniconf videos | 02:35 |
| llnz | i was thinking of it, do you think i should | 02:35 |
| llnz | oh | 02:35 |
| llnz | not too disruptive i hope | 02:36 |
| mithro | llnz: you can see for yourself in a bit | 02:38 |
| llnz | cool | 02:38 |
| mithro | just finishing the lightening talks editing | 02:38 |
| mithro | Ohm: (for when you get up) you might be interested in this task http://www.thousandparsec.net/wiki/Ideas_for_Programmers#Intergrate_and_improve_schemepy | 02:41 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/1cQD> (at www.thousandparsec.net) | 02:41 |
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| llnz | brb, rebooting to newer kernel | 03:02 |
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| *** llnz has joined #tp | 03:06 | |
| llnz | back in business! | 03:06 |
| * JLP wakes up (8 hours later almost to the minute :) ) | 03:08 | |
| JLP | mithro: yeah, i was thinking about converting this to subtitles | 03:09 |
| JLP | oh cool miniconf videos are coming :) | 03:11 |
| mithro | i'll be back later, dinner | 03:16 |
| *** zzorn_sleep is now known as zzorn | 03:29 | |
| * llnz thinks we need a way to mark Ideas as suitable for short times, and gsoc sized projects | 03:37 | |
| JLP | llnz: yup, possibly color coded to find it easier | 03:40 |
| llnz | i was thinking small icons, actually | 03:41 |
| JLP | llnz: or this, or both | 03:41 |
| llnz | yeah, both would be helpful | 03:42 |
| JLP | now someboday has to create nice icons, or we could use the oxygen icons for game difficukty level or something | 03:43 |
| llnz | maybe a star for easy and the gsoc logo for gsoc? | 03:44 |
| mithro | I think if they said they where going to 4-5 of the smaller tpclient-pywx tasks that would make an okay gsoc project | 04:11 |
| llnz | true | 04:13 |
| JLP | mithro: well as far as i know there is nothing in gsoc that says this can't be a gsoc project, with 5 smaller subprojects | 04:14 |
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| mithro | JLP: well, the larger project is "Improve tpclient-pywx" | 04:15 |
| JLP | exactly | 04:16 |
| llnz | that was the wrong thing to do | 04:16 |
| mithro | llnz: kill X again? | 04:25 |
| llnz | i did | 04:25 |
| llnz | i tried dragging a video window from one monitor to another | 04:26 |
| mithro | he he | 04:27 |
| llnz | and watching a video causes the second monitor to reset about every 3 seconds | 04:27 |
| mithro | :/ | 04:29 |
| llnz | and no one on #xorg has helped me yet | 04:38 |
| mithro | llnz: which driver? | 04:39 |
| llnz | ati(radeon) | 04:40 |
| llnz | the free radeon driver | 04:40 |
| * mithro is using the radeonhd driver | 04:40 | |
| mithro | but I only have 1 screen at the moment | 04:40 |
| JLP | i'm using the open source radeon and so far dual screen works fine here | 04:40 |
| llnz | JLP: mergedFD or xrandr? | 04:41 |
| JLP | xrandr | 04:41 |
| mithro | xrandr 1.2 is the way to go if your driver supports it | 04:41 |
| * llnz only has a radeon 9600 | 04:41 | |
| llnz | i does | 04:41 |
| * JLP only has some integrated radeon xpress laptop chipset | 04:42 | |
| mithro | llnz: my older computer has a 9600pro | 04:42 |
| mithro | you guys working on the wiki page? | 04:44 |
| llnz | i had done a little | 04:44 |
| mithro | (at this moment?) | 04:44 |
| llnz | not currently | 04:44 |
| JLP | mithro: i'm writing the text for the second part of video tutorials | 04:44 |
| mithro | JLP: cool | 04:45 |
| mithro | llnz: my main concern with minisec is, | 04:45 |
| mithro | 1. It's the first thing most people encounter (as it is running on demo1) | 04:45 |
| mithro | 2. If we have GSoC students working on a tpserver-cpp ruleset, it's probably a good example | 04:45 |
| mithro | llnz: but a 0.5.0 release is probably more important | 04:47 |
| llnz | yeah | 04:49 |
| mithro | JLP: I'm assume you saw the "actions" I added to the script | 04:49 |
| mithro | also explained your 'why' question | 04:49 |
| mithro | llnz: any idea when nash gets back to Australia? | 04:52 |
| llnz | late monday, iirc | 04:52 |
| llnz | i couldn't get in touch with him, btw | 04:52 |
| llnz | might not have his cellphone on | 04:53 |
| JLP | mithro: yup i've seen these | 04:53 |
| JLP | mithro: one question about the tuen numbers in the system tree | 04:56 |
| mithro | the numbers are, [<turns to complete the first order>, <turns to complete all orders>] | 04:57 |
| JLP | if you check the video there i have set some build orders on the planet, first one shows 1 turn, the second shows 8 turns | 04:57 |
| JLP | but the tree view shows 1,7 | 04:57 |
| JLP | shouldn't it be 1, 9 | 04:57 |
| mithro | hrm... possibly | 04:58 |
| JLP | check from 7:45 on for example | 04:59 |
| mithro | JLP: hrm? could you log a bug report | 05:00 |
| JLP | mithro: will do | 05:00 |
| mithro | oh that is a timecode | 05:00 |
| JLP | mithro: yeah the time in the video | 05:00 |
| mithro | JLP: it probably doesn't update if you change the orders either? | 05:01 |
| JLP | mithro: maybe, will take a look later, don't have the state from the video anymore | 05:04 |
| JLP | Turn minisec into a "demo" ruleset <- is this supposed to be in Todo and not in Bug tracker? | 05:09 |
| mithro | JLP: dunno - it seems more like a bug to me :) - it's just code cleanup | 05:10 |
| JLP | mithro: both then :) | 05:11 |
| mithro | llnz: have you added the tech/research stuff somewhere? | 05:13 |
| llnz | mithro: i have the tech/research design (protocol) done, just waiting to finish tpserver-cpp 0.5.0 first | 05:14 |
| mithro | llnz: is there anything I can link too? | 05:14 |
| llnz | not yet | 05:14 |
| * llnz has it on dead trees | 05:14 | |
| llnz | i will put it on the wiki soon, if you like | 05:18 |
| * jotham sighs | 05:18 | |
| * jotham just got home | 05:18 | |
| jotham | spent the entire day writing some fucking hacks for a content management system | 05:18 |
| jotham | i hate web dev | 05:18 |
| jotham | i swear i get no free time these days | 05:18 |
| jotham | it's killing me | 05:18 |
| jotham | and it's cold | 05:19 |
| llnz | hi jotham | 05:19 |
| jotham | hey | 05:19 |
| jotham | is it wet down there? | 05:19 |
| jotham | it's like winter here | 05:19 |
| llnz | yes | 05:19 |
| llnz | cold here too | 05:20 |
| jotham | sucks | 05:20 |
| mithro | hey jotham | 05:22 |
| mithro | jotham: you see the pyglet alpha? | 05:22 |
| jotham | no i haven't seen anything but php for 2 days | 05:22 |
| jotham | :\ | 05:22 |
| jotham | fuck php is a fucking crap language | 05:22 |
| jotham | god | 05:22 |
| * jotham checks pyglet | 05:22 | |
| jotham | whoa | 05:23 |
| jotham | that's a serious upgrade | 05:23 |
| mithro | JLP: what is your launchpad username? | 05:24 |
| mithro | llnz: do you have a launchpad username? | 05:24 |
| llnz | nope | 05:24 |
| jotham | that's cool mithro | 05:24 |
| jotham | the new alpha | 05:24 |
| jotham | that's a lot of changes | 05:24 |
| mithro | just looking at the blueprinting system, it looks like it could be pretty good for the ideas stuff | 05:25 |
| mithro | jotham: yeah, Alex and Richard are caining along | 05:28 |
| mithro | pyglet will be self aware in a couple of months :P | 05:28 |
| jotham | it's awesome | 05:28 |
| jotham | i need pyglet for 3 projects atm | 05:28 |
| jotham | so i am kinda shitty i am getting no time | 05:28 |
| jotham | reading the red book is kinda getting me excited though | 05:30 |
| jotham | surprised something like pyglet didn't come along earlier | 05:31 |
| jotham | i guess opioid2D was a bit like it | 05:31 |
| JLP | mithro: sorry, was away, it is jlp if i'm not mistaken | 05:36 |
| mithro | JLP: yeah - found it | 05:36 |
| mithro | you are now part of the Thousand Parsec group on Launchpad | 05:37 |
| mithro | JLP: so how goes that script? | 06:17 |
| jotham | do you guys know uhm | 06:18 |
| jotham | i need to impliment some kind of set code | 06:18 |
| mithro | uhm? | 06:18 |
| jotham | from scratch | 06:18 |
| mithro | upcoming horror movies? | 06:19 |
| jotham | like, so i can determin items that belong to 2 sets, or remove items from a set that belong to some group of other sets | 06:19 |
| jotham | efficiently | 06:19 |
| jotham | python has it built in, but i'm not using python | 06:19 |
| mithro | stl has one too | 06:19 |
| jotham | so i'd like to port some code from somewhere else to ecmascript | 06:19 |
| jotham | hard to google for 'set' and have anything remotely useful come up, no matter how you bunch it with keywords | 06:19 |
| llnz | intersection and difference, should be plenty of implementations | 06:20 |
| jotham | i'm not a computer scientist, so i don't really know what to search for | 06:20 |
| JLP | mithro: starmap is done, now i will describe other panels around it | 06:21 |
| mithro | JLP: cool | 06:21 |
| llnz | jotham: intersection and difference | 06:21 |
| llnz | intersection finds items that appear in both sets | 06:22 |
| mithro | I'm sure that someone would have implimented a set for emacsscript | 06:22 |
| jotham | ok cheers | 06:22 |
| * jotham proceeds to find people recommending python | 06:23 | |
| mithro | he he | 06:27 |
| mithro | jotham: sets operations are easy to impliment if you have ordered lists | 06:28 |
| jotham | these are lists of objects, so not ordered i guess | 06:29 |
| jotham | i can only compare to instances to see if they are the same using == | 06:29 |
| jotham | that's all | 06:29 |
| jotham | and delving into their internal data wouldn't be apropriate | 06:29 |
| jotham | I am not very good at algorithms so i was hoping to find someone elses wheel and just retool it for my needs | 06:30 |
| mithro | jotham: well, if you only have a == set operations will be O(n) | 06:30 |
| jotham | i am going to give dojo.collections.Set a check | 06:30 |
| mithro | jotham: you could sort on things like the memory id and have it still work | 06:31 |
| jotham | i have no access to the memory | 06:31 |
| jotham | but being able to pass a lambda to the algo so it knows how to sort the records based on their internal fields might be a plan | 06:32 |
| mithro | intersection/union are only like 5 lines of code if you have ordered lists | 06:34 |
| jotham | so i should just go and read the inevitable wiki pages and write them | 06:34 |
| jotham | because at this point i have no idea of the license implications from porting the 400 lines of dojo code and then putting it in a comercial product | 06:35 |
| mithro | jotham: if you get stuck, just give me a bell | 06:36 |
| jotham | ok | 06:36 |
| jotham | it's 12:30 and i have to get a WOF for my car at 6:30 *sigh* | 06:36 |
| jotham | not enough hours in the day | 06:36 |
| mithro | the set mathematics notation is pretty annoying | 06:36 |
| mithro | WOF? | 06:36 |
| jotham | warrent of fitness | 06:36 |
| mithro | ahh :/ | 06:37 |
| mithro | I assume no battleviewer progress? Will the pyglet alpha help you? | 06:37 |
| jotham | often it's the math notation that confuses the shit out of me when reading about comp sci topics | 06:37 |
| jotham | rather than the actual subject | 06:37 |
| jotham | i changed my code to use the pyglet event system, after getting a response from that guy | 06:37 |
| * mithro has a crappy memory, so I keep forgetting what the symbols mean :/ | 06:37 | |
| jotham | but that's about it | 06:37 |
| jotham | i really fucking want to get back to where i was before i switched from pygame | 06:38 |
| jotham | it's annoying me | 06:38 |
| jotham | also i am going to compete in that crazy pymike's competition | 06:38 |
| jotham | oh i see what you are saying about ordered | 06:42 |
| jotham | yeah that's trivial | 06:42 |
| jotham | hum | 06:42 |
| jotham | makes union, intersection, and difference a piece of cake | 06:42 |
| mithro | jotham: yeah | 06:43 |
| jotham | i basically have to impliment a database of sorts | 06:43 |
| mithro | dang, sqlite is public domain | 06:44 |
| jotham | yeah but not embeddable inside actionscript/flash | 06:44 |
| mithro | I wonder if someone has done a C->actionscript VM compiler | 06:45 |
| mithro | oh cool - http://www.brajeshwar.com/2008/cc-to-actionscript-compiler/ | 06:46 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/1cRF> (at www.brajeshwar.com) | 06:46 |
| jotham | hah wow | 06:47 |
| jotham | that's insane | 06:47 |
| mithro | http://www.brajeshwar.com/2008/cc-to-actionscript-compiler/ | 06:48 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/1cRF> (at www.brajeshwar.com) | 06:48 |
| jotham | i've spent quite a few days this week dealing with the flash bytecode | 06:54 |
| jotham | been having wierd errors with the open source compiler we use | 06:54 |
| * llnz puts up the initial proposal for Research Frames | 07:02 | |
| llnz | http://www.thousandparsec.net/wiki/Research_Frames | 07:02 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/1cRO> (at www.thousandparsec.net) | 07:02 |
| mithro | llnz: cool | 07:02 |
| * mithro needs to take some leave and work on thousand parsec stuff :) | 07:02 | |
| * llnz needs to too! | 07:03 | |
| llnz | btw: i am away Thursday till Wednesday, exciting times | 07:03 |
| llnz | will probably have net access and should be working on tpserver-cpp | 07:04 |
| mithro | llnz: cool | 07:04 |
| * llnz wanders off | 07:07 | |
| llnz | later all | 07:07 |
| mithro | jotham: this useful at all - http://seantheflashguy.com/blog/2007/06/14/super-simple-sqlite-example-for-adobe-air-1-beta/ ? | 07:07 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/1cRR> (at seantheflashguy.com) | 07:08 |
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| *** llnz has quit IRC | 07:08 | |
| JLP | yay, part 2 complete | 07:09 |
| mithro | JLP: yay! | 07:09 |
| mithro | JLP: I think you should probably add the "preferences" button to the first tutorial | 07:10 |
| *** Appleman1234 has joined #tp | 07:10 | |
| mithro | JLP: any idea how to do subtitles? | 07:10 |
| JLP | mithro: nope idea, yet | 07:11 |
| mithro | JLP: I managed to reproduce your bug http://www.thousandparsec.net/~tim/bug.png :) | 07:13 |
| JLP | text saved into wiki | 07:13 |
| *** Appleman1234 has quit IRC | 07:13 | |
| JLP | on to Part III - Giving Orders | 07:15 |
| CIA-12 | mithro tpclient-pywx-stable * rdc209e8f9225 /windows/main/panelOrder.py: Also call the order window layout method. | 07:15 |
| CIA-12 | mithro tpclient-pywx-stable * r5c0261586453 /windows/main/panelSystem.py: Fixed a bug in the Systems turn counter. | 07:15 |
| mithro | JLP: fixed | 07:15 |
| *** Appleman1234 has joined #tp | 07:15 | |
| mithro | the first number is the turns till the first order finishes, the second number is the number of turns to complete all other orders (apart from the first one) | 07:16 |
| * JLP remebers he should add end of turn stuff to part 2 | 07:16 | |
| mithro | JLP: do you know if you hold down shift the message prev/next turn into first/last ? | 07:19 |
| JLP | mithro: didn't know this trick | 07:19 |
| mithro | JLP: have not been reading your tips? :) | 07:20 |
| JLP | mithro: i never read the tips :) | 07:21 |
| mithro | I need to re-add in copy and paste support to the orders window | 07:21 |
| mithro | JLP: you must have translated them at some point? | 07:21 |
| JLP | mithro: don't remember translating them for pywx, in KDE other people usually did this | 07:22 |
| mithro | JLP: can you log a bug regarding the copy/paste of orders | 07:22 |
| JLP | mithro: will do | 07:24 |
| mithro | JLP: looks like they my not be in the pot file | 07:24 |
| CIA-12 | mithro tpclient-pywx-stable * r10ee42a0e7f9 /locale/generate.sh: Also include the tips.txt file in translation. | 07:26 |
| CIA-12 | mithro tpclient-pywx-stable * r1117bc95fc0f /locale/tpclient-pywx.pot: Updated tpclient-pywx.pot file. | 07:26 |
| mithro | JLP: that would be why you have not read them :) | 07:27 |
| JLP | :) | 07:27 |
| * JLP notes it would be usefull to read all these tips in vorious apps | 07:27 | |
| JLP | mithro: looks like copy paste bug is already reported - https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1877755&group_id=132078&atid=723099 | 07:29 |
| tpb | Bug #1877755: Orders pane is missing context menu | 07:29 |
| mithro | JLP: cool | 07:30 |
| mithro | JLP: found another bug :/ | 07:39 |
| mithro | might be with tpserver-cpp however | 07:39 |
| Ohm | morning everybody | 08:07 |
| *** Appleman1234 has quit IRC | 08:13 | |
| *** Appleman1234 has joined #tp | 08:14 | |
| JLP | Ohm: good morning | 08:14 |
| Ohm | mithro: the integrate/improve schemepy looks like it could be a fun challenge | 08:15 |
| Ohm | but the required skill strong python skills worries me, as I have no python skills at all | 08:16 |
| Ohm | hold on, I've got to restart the computer | 08:16 |
| *** Ohm has quit IRC | 08:16 | |
| mithro | Ohm: you have till March 31 to learn python - as you seem to know lisp I doubt you will have any problems - if you have a play with schemepy it would be a good start | 08:23 |
| mithro | opps he left | 08:23 |
| *** Ohm has joined #tp | 08:49 | |
| Ohm | made some breakfast aswell | 08:49 |
| JLP | Ohm: <mithro> Ohm: you have till March 31 to learn python - as you seem to know lisp I doubt you will have any problems - if you have a play with schemepy it would be a good start | 08:50 |
| tpb | disconnected from worldforge: Ping sent at 2008-03-02T08:49:19 not replied to. | 08:51 |
| mithro | arg! | 08:52 |
| mithro | this last video just won't encode properly | 08:52 |
| Ohm | JLP: sounds good | 08:54 |
| mithro | Ohm: on a side note, the schemepy is probably not a high priority task | 09:00 |
| Ohm | hm, ok | 09:00 |
| mithro | Ohm: rulesets, web client, tpclient-pywx imporvements and AI are all higher priority | 09:02 |
| Ohm | okay | 09:02 |
| Ohm | AI or tpclient would be fun to work on | 09:02 |
| Ohm | I guess this is a good opportunity to learn Python. | 09:03 |
| Ohm | Can't really see myself having any problems with it, though. I know C#, VB.Net, used to know perl, ADA and a bit of C++ | 09:04 |
| Ohm | Python is just another language, not many new concepts to wrap your head around | 09:04 |
| Ohm | being imperative and all that | 09:05 |
| mithro | Ohm: If you have played with lisp you should feel right at home with python | 09:21 |
| Ohm | wonderful | 09:21 |
| * mithro beats his head against a wall | 09:26 | |
| JLP | mithro: don't do that, we still need you for TP | 09:27 |
| * mithro gives up with theora | 09:28 | |
| *** Appleman1234 has quit IRC | 09:32 | |
| Ohm | mithro: what movies are you encoding? | 09:46 |
| mithro | Ohm: the Gaming Miniconf at Linux.conf.au 2008 | 09:47 |
| mithro | I was the organiser for it | 09:47 |
| mithro | Ohm: it's what I'm going to get you to seed in a bit | 09:48 |
| Ohm | oh, cool | 09:49 |
| tpb | tpb has joined on worldforge | 09:49 |
| tpb | mode change by purple.worldforge.org on worldforge: +nt | 09:49 |
| Ohm | Aswell as being interested in seeing the films, seeding them will be a good thing | 09:49 |
| mithro | Ohm: there are some quite interesting talks | 09:50 |
| mithro | it's 1:23am here :/ | 09:51 |
| Ohm | mithro: Trying to add your ubuntu repos, but they keep 404ing | 09:51 |
| Ohm | same thing iwth the pgp key | 09:51 |
| mithro | Ohm: what ubuntu version? | 09:51 |
| Ohm | gutsy | 09:51 |
| tpb | mode change by blue.worldforge.org on worldforge: -o tpb | 09:51 |
| tpb | mode change by blue.worldforge.org on worldforge: -t | 09:51 |
| tpb | aloril has joined on worldforge | 09:52 |
| Ohm | Failed to fetch http://packages.thousandparsec.net/dists/gutsy/universe/binary-i386/Packages.gz 404 Not Found | 09:52 |
| mithro | maybe I stuff up the instructions | 09:52 |
| Ohm | Failed to fetch http://packages.thousandparsec.net/dists/gutsy/universe/source/Sources.gz 404 Not Found | 09:52 |
| mithro | the key is yet to be uploaded | 09:52 |
| Ohm | ah, so that's why that didn't work | 09:52 |
| mithro | oh dang | 09:52 |
| mithro | you need | 09:52 |
| Ohm | the instructions look pretty solid though | 09:52 |
| mithro | deb http://packages.thousandparsec.net/ubuntu DIST universe | 09:52 |
| tpb | Title: Index of /ubuntu (at packages.thousandparsec.net) | 09:52 |
| mithro | give that a go? | 09:53 |
| Ohm | sure | 09:53 |
| Ohm | yeah, that worked | 09:53 |
| Ohm | same with deb-src [...]/ubuntu DIST universe? | 09:54 |
| mithro | ahh cool | 09:54 |
| mithro | yeah | 09:54 |
| Ohm | yep, it worked | 09:54 |
| Ohm | http://packages.thousandparsec.net/ <-- might want to change this page | 09:55 |
| tpb | Title: Index of / (at packages.thousandparsec.net) | 09:55 |
| Ohm | mithro: argh, can't install | 09:56 |
| Ohm | depends on 0.6.1ubuntu1 version of python-support | 09:57 |
| Ohm | I have 0.7.1 | 09:57 |
| Ohm | (I think) | 09:57 |
| mithro | hrm | 09:57 |
| mithro | we have not tested the gusty packages yet | 09:57 |
| Ohm | http://owner.rnachoctb.org/aptget.txt | 09:57 |
| Ohm | those are the errors I'm getting | 09:58 |
| mithro | Ohm: can you poke bddebian next time he is around | 09:58 |
| mithro | he is building on hardy I think is the problem | 09:58 |
| Ohm | do you have a statically linked binary for me to test in the meantime? | 10:02 |
| mithro | you can follow the non-experimental instructions | 10:02 |
| mithro | http://www.thousandparsec.net/tp/gettingstarted.php | 10:02 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/J4s> (at www.thousandparsec.net) | 10:02 |
| mithro | woot! | 10:06 |
| mithro | finally | 10:06 |
| mithro | this last video has been through 5 video tools :/ | 10:06 |
| Ohm | heh | 10:06 |
| mithro | dvgrab -> kdenlive -> lca video scripts -> avidemux -> ffmpeg2theora | 10:07 |
| mithro | everything else when dvgrab->lca video scripts | 10:08 |
| mithro | s/when/went | 10:08 |
| Ohm | "get a mac" | 10:12 |
| Ohm | (i am joking of course) | 10:12 |
| mithro | Ohm: don't get me started on Mac's | 10:13 |
| Ohm | managed to run the tpclient-pywx | 10:13 |
| mithro | they are the biggest headache to support | 10:13 |
| Ohm | * Delete, remove the currently selected order | 10:14 |
| Ohm | * <, next order (shift will add the next order to the selection) | 10:14 |
| Ohm | * >, previous order (shift will add the previous order to the selection) | 10:14 |
| Ohm | ugh | 10:14 |
| Ohm | please change these in the future | 10:15 |
| mithro | plus there is no legal way to get MacOS X without expensive hardware | 10:15 |
| mithro | Ohm: why? | 10:15 |
| Ohm | on european keyboard layouts, it's impossible to do shift+< | 10:15 |
| * mithro pokes JLP | 10:15 | |
| Ohm | because shift+< is our way of typing > | 10:15 |
| Ohm | and obviously it's impossible to do shift+> since shift has to be held to produce a > at all | 10:16 |
| mithro | Ohm: I wonder if that code is looking at the char or the keycode | 10:16 |
| Ohm | Maybe not all eu layouts, but the Swedish and Finnish ones at least | 10:16 |
| JLP | mithro: yo | 10:16 |
| mithro | JLP: do you see the same problem as Ohm? | 10:16 |
| Ohm | canadian/french layout will have the same problem | 10:17 |
| Ohm | as will danish | 10:17 |
| Ohm | and dutch | 10:17 |
| Ohm | and italian | 10:17 |
| Ohm | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_layout | 10:17 |
| tpb | Title: Keyboard layout - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at en.wikipedia.org) | 10:17 |
| Ohm | and norwegian | 10:17 |
| JLP | mithro: yup slovenian keyboard is the same | 10:18 |
| mithro | Ohm: so what do you suggest we use? | 10:18 |
| mithro | letters seem to move around the keyboard too :/ | 10:19 |
| Ohm | replace < and > with z and x | 10:19 |
| Ohm | ah yeah | 10:19 |
| mithro | and Ctrl-Z == Undo in the near future | 10:20 |
| mithro | Ctrl-X == Cut | 10:20 |
| Ohm | hungary and germany will have problems with z and x | 10:20 |
| Ohm | :/ | 10:20 |
| Ohm | and germany is huge | 10:20 |
| Ohm | how about w? | 10:20 |
| Ohm | *qw | 10:20 |
| Ohm | only the french and belgians will have problems with that, as they use azerty | 10:21 |
| Ohm | AHA | 10:22 |
| Ohm | using e and r will solve your problems | 10:22 |
| Ohm | even the turkish qwerty has E and R at the same places | 10:22 |
| mithro | Ohm: you have pmsg | 10:28 |
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| mithro | JLP: ping? | 10:44 |
| JLP | mithro: pong | 10:45 |
| mithro | JLP: you have a pmsg | 10:52 |
| JLP | mithro: got it, just setting it up on my always on server | 10:53 |
| mithro | JLP: well I see two peers connected | 11:01 |
| JLP | mithro: yup seems right | 11:04 |
| mithro | well I need to head to bed | 11:09 |
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| Lukstr | Hello all | 16:39 |
| JLP | Lukstr: ahoy | 16:39 |
| Lukstr | I have a query, for anyone of the TP team really | 16:41 |
| JLP | Lukstr: i can try to help | 16:41 |
| Lukstr | JLP: Instead of jumping headfirst into a SoC-ish project, I feel like it would be better to start with something really small, like a bug fix or small feature or testing something first, as to get a good feel for the project. Anything you can suggest? | 16:42 |
| JLP | Lukstr: very good thinking, i think that you could help the most by helping with the python/wxwidgets client or c++ server | 16:43 |
| Lukstr | hm, well since I'm more of a c/c++ guy and have only touched on python (however will be hitting the books with it over the next month for a project), I guess that's where to start. Who heads (or appropriate term) the C++ server? | 16:45 |
| JLP | Lukstr: Lee Begg, has nickname llnz here on irc, from New Zelans so he will be asleep for a couple of more hours | 16:47 |
| Lukstr | ah okay | 16:47 |
| Lukstr | thank you :) | 16:49 |
| JLP | Lukstr: no problem, you're more than welcome | 16:49 |
| JLP | Lukstr: if your timezone isn't the best match for New Zeland you can also introduce yourself on the developers mailing list and Lee will sure see the e-mail there | 16:52 |
| JLP | http://www.thousandparsec.net/tp/mailman.php/listinfo/tp-devel | 16:52 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/1DpR> (at www.thousandparsec.net) | 16:52 |
| Lukstr | ah yes, I'm already on the mailing list | 16:52 |
| Lukstr | but I will send an introduction email | 16:53 |
| JLP | Lukstr: cool | 16:53 |
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| Lukstr | Hello | 16:59 |
| llnz | hi all | 16:59 |
| JLP | llnz: ahoy | 16:59 |
| Lukstr | llnz: JLP recommended I speak to you about helping out with the c++ server | 16:59 |
| Ohm | speak of teh devil | 17:00 |
| * llnz now has a wide screen at uni and can therefore have irc open | 17:00 | |
| llnz | Lukstr: cool | 17:00 |
| mithro | JLP / Ohm: had any chance to checkout the videos? | 17:00 |
| mithro | would be good to check them before I release to the world | 17:01 |
| Ohm | mithro: nope, just got home | 17:01 |
| Ohm | been to campus, worked on our ADA project | 17:01 |
| JLP | mithro: not yet, i only noticed they are much smaller in size then last year | 17:01 |
| Ohm | then met an old friend who lives far away now | 17:01 |
| Ohm | then ate, and now I'm here | 17:01 |
| Ohm | Gonna check out git. | 17:01 |
| mithro | JLP: they should be the same quality as the rest of the LCA videos | 17:01 |
| JLP | mithro: yeah i guessed, same script right | 17:02 |
| Lukstr | llnz: I'm looking for something small to work on so I can get a feel for the project, maybe a bugfix or something. | 17:04 |
| mithro | JLP: i'm going to do a high quality version of the pyglet tutorial when I figure out the right settings | 17:04 |
| llnz | Lukstr: a couple of small things are here: http://www.thousandparsec.net/wiki/Ideas_for_Programmers#Tpserver-cpp | 17:06 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/1cVg> (at www.thousandparsec.net) | 17:06 |
| llnz | namely the Calendar Timer, and the change to Boost.Random | 17:07 |
| Lukstr | llnz: the boost.random change sounds interesting enough, how might I get started? | 17:09 |
| llnz | Lukstr: get the sources from the git repo, have a look at prng.h and cpp, have a look how and where Random object is used | 17:11 |
| Lukstr | roger | 17:11 |
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| * Lukstr begins to learn git | 17:24 | |
| Ohm | Lukstr: there are some pretty good video presentations on how git works | 17:28 |
| Ohm | search for git engedu on video.google.com | 17:28 |
| Ohm | then choose only long (>20min) videos | 17:28 |
| Lukstr | Ohm: excellent, will do. Think I'm getting the hang of it, I've had a lot of experience with other CVS, i.e. svn and homerolled solutions | 17:28 |
| Ohm | alright | 17:29 |
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| Ohm | mithro: where, if at all, are you going to post the miniconf torrent? | 18:41 |
| Ohm | I think an interesting place to put it would be piratebay, amongst others. Maybe spark some interest into the OSS-game-making thing. | 18:42 |
| llnz | there was a discussion on the lca mailing list about where torrents should be tracked | 18:43 |
| Ohm | want to preserve CC-licensing stuff? | 18:44 |
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| llnz | hi krazytekn0 | 18:50 |
| krazytekn0 | hi llnz | 18:51 |
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| krazytekn0 | llnz: I'm looking into tpserver-cpp you're pretty much running that right? | 18:54 |
| llnz | yes, that is correct | 18:54 |
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| JLafont | allo | 18:58 |
| JLP | JLafont: ahoy | 18:58 |
| JLafont | How is everyone doing? | 19:01 |
| llnz | krazytekn0: are you interested in anything in particular? | 19:01 |
| llnz | hi JLafont | 19:01 |
| krazytekn0 | llnz: I was thinking about working on a module to do console based configuration on startup. | 19:02 |
| JLP | JLafont: slowly getting sleepy :) | 19:02 |
| llnz | krazytekn0: cool | 19:02 |
| Ohm | I am programming a math duel game in ADA | 19:03 |
| Ohm | networked | 19:04 |
| JLafont | JLP: I know how you feel | 19:04 |
| Ohm | it's pretty fun | 19:05 |
| Ohm | pretty challenging, as it's the first time we deal with threads and network stuff | 19:06 |
| JLafont | Awesome | 19:06 |
| Ohm | we've got pretty much everything solved, though, so now all we need is to code-monkey it up and complete it | 19:06 |
| JLafont | I love multithreading, unfortunately my University kinda fails at giving us any good networking stuff | 19:07 |
| krazytekn0 | Ohm how do you like ADA compared to Lisp? | 19:08 |
| jotham | main problem with multithreading is, like singletons, inexperienced developers think they are the right answers to the wrong problems | 19:10 |
| jotham | the lighttpd guy is interesting to follow, regarding threading | 19:10 |
| Ohm | krazytekn0: They're so different comparing them is pretty futile. | 19:10 |
| JLafont | Isn't ADA more imperative, while LISP is functional? | 19:10 |
| Ohm | Lisp is functional, ADA is imperative. | 19:11 |
| Ohm | Yes. | 19:11 |
| Ohm | Technically, lisp isn't functional, but it is mostly used as if it was. | 19:11 |
| JLafont | jotham: Care to elaborate? | 19:11 |
| llnz | jotham: interesting, where can i find it? | 19:11 |
| Ohm | We try to thread as little as possible, even though ADA has very elegant support for it. | 19:12 |
| jotham | JLafont: often people think threading is the answer to dealing with blockages in code, but it GUI event loops, network transactions, or data processing | 19:12 |
| Ohm | *be | 19:12 |
| jotham | often things like a better knowledge of engineering and coroutines are the sollution | 19:12 |
| Ohm | right? | 19:13 |
| jotham | llnz: http://www.lighttpd.net/benchmark | 19:13 |
| tpb | Title: lighttpd fly light (at www.lighttpd.net) | 19:13 |
| JLafont | jotham: ahh yeah, I agree with that. What about lighttpd? | 19:13 |
| JLafont | Woops nvm | 19:14 |
| jotham | we get a lot of people using pythons not-really-threading threads with pygame | 19:14 |
| Ohm | If not for threads, how can one wait for something while simultaneously doing something else? | 19:16 |
| jotham | the answer tends to be you often don't have to wait | 19:17 |
| Ohm | Or is it about engineering things into as little threading as possible? | 19:17 |
| jotham | yeah you've got it | 19:17 |
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| bddebian | Howdy | 19:26 |
| JLafont | Allo | 19:27 |
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| llnz | hi bddebian | 19:28 |
| bddebian | Hello llnz | 19:28 |
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| JLP | Ohm: you had some problems with *buntu packages right? | 19:32 |
| bddebian | Probably. Anything less than Hardy is likely broken | 19:35 |
| Ohm | JLP: yep | 19:35 |
| JLP | Ohm: now's the time to have a chat with bddebian, our packager | 19:36 |
| Ohm | http://owner.rnachoctb.org/aptget.txt | 19:36 |
| Ohm | bddebian: There you have the errors I got when trying to apt-get install the python client. | 19:36 |
| Ohm | also, the adresses here are erronous: http://packages.thousandparsec.net/ | 19:37 |
| tpb | Title: Index of / (at packages.thousandparsec.net) | 19:37 |
| Ohm | for me, I had to use http://packages.thousandparsec.net/ubuntu rather than without the /ubuntu | 19:38 |
| tpb | Title: Index of /ubuntu (at packages.thousandparsec.net) | 19:38 |
| bddebian | Yeah should be .../ubuntu universe | 19:38 |
| Ohm | .../ubuntu gutsy universe ;) | 19:38 |
| Ohm | for me | 19:38 |
| bddebian | Oh aye, forgot the distro | 19:42 |
| Ohm | anyways, if you need me to do more specific things in finding what the problem is, give me a ping | 19:43 |
| bddebian | I know the problem, it's dependency version issues :-( | 19:43 |
| bddebian | I just haven't had a chance to rebuild the packages yet | 19:43 |
| Ohm | kay | 19:44 |
| Ohm | mithro: Hope you don't mind, but I'm removing your account now. Don't want unused things to be lying around. | 19:45 |
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| * JLP is going sleeping, see you in ~8 h | 20:45 | |
| JLafont | JLP: Cya later | 20:50 |
| Lukstr | Ohm, bddebian: sorry if I'm chirping in late, I got the same errors a few days ago | 21:15 |
| bddebian | Yeah I know, I'm behind :-( | 21:16 |
| Lukstr | bddebian: hehe no worries :) | 21:17 |
| Lukstr | brb switing OS's | 21:18 |
| Lukstr | s/switing/switching | 21:18 |
| Ohm | the statically linked 0.3.0 works well, so right now there are no hurries | 21:18 |
| * Lukstr pauses. | 21:19 | |
| Lukstr | What's a good light-weight OS that I could run in VM to program? | 21:19 |
| Ohm | depends on what you want to program | 21:19 |
| Ohm | but regardless, I don't think I have any good advice to give | 21:20 |
| Lukstr | Ohm: I want to program everything :) | 21:21 |
| Lukstr | I run a slax VMWare in ubuntu on my laptop sometimes | 21:21 |
| Lukstr | llnz: does tpserver-cpp compile on wind0ze boxes, out of curiosity? | 21:22 |
| llnz | Lukstr: it has done, mithro did a few times | 21:22 |
| Lukstr | hm | 21:23 |
| Lukstr | I run msys+mingw on my wind0ze box, should I give it a shot? | 21:23 |
| llnz | sure | 21:24 |
| llnz | somewhere on mithro's blog is details about how he did it last time | 21:24 |
| Lukstr | oh? I will check it out | 21:25 |
| Ohm | oh | 21:27 |
| Ohm | url to mithro blog plz | 21:27 |
| llnz | http://blog.mithis.net/ | 21:28 |
| tpb | Title: Mithro rants about stuff : (at blog.mithis.net) | 21:28 |
| Ohm | ty | 21:30 |
| llnz | Lukstr: http://blog.mithis.net/archives/tp/10-compiling-tpserver-cpp-under-windows | 21:30 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/1cYM> (at blog.mithis.net) | 21:30 |
| Lukstr | yeah I'm reading that right now | 21:31 |
| llnz | i integrated libltdl and all the patches | 21:31 |
| Lukstr | interesting | 21:31 |
| Lukstr | are you guys interested in making the code more portable in the future? | 21:32 |
| llnz | the python client is very portable | 21:33 |
| llnz | the server is portable across unix systems | 21:34 |
| Lukstr | sorry, the server is what I was referring to | 21:34 |
| Lukstr | but not windows systems :P | 21:34 |
| llnz | i'm not specifically supporting windows | 21:35 |
| Lukstr | good call | 21:35 |
| Lukstr | I was just curious | 21:35 |
| llnz | i may accept patches for windows though | 21:36 |
| Lukstr | i.e. make windows work with your code? :P | 21:36 |
| llnz | basically | 21:37 |
| Lukstr | well, there are rumours of the next windows having a unix-esque kernel :P | 21:38 |
| Ohm | may be so, but they won't be compatible | 21:38 |
| Ohm | they have everything to lose in increasing compatibility | 21:39 |
| Lukstr | yup | 21:39 |
| Lukstr | I hardly believe it would happen, and if it did I don't know what the catch would be, but there were talks of supporting GNU programs/code natively | 21:39 |
| Ohm | that would definitely be good for them, but I think that portability would only be one-way | 21:40 |
| Ohm | (just like with OS X) | 21:40 |
| Lukstr | No doubt. | 21:41 |
| krazytekn0 | Lukstr: I know this is a bit late but emacs is a great OS to program in, all it needs is a good text editor :) | 22:15 |
| Lukstr | krazytekn0: Always been more of a vi guy myself :P | 22:16 |
| Ohm | I'd much rather use emacs than vi (i've tried both a lot) | 22:17 |
| Ohm | and I'd probably use emacs rather than vim 6 | 22:18 |
| krazytekn0 | I have never used vi much. My problem would be that I seem have buffer overflow of the brain... whenever I learn something new it pushes something old out the other end | 22:18 |
| Ohm | but vim 7 beats them all | 22:18 |
| krazytekn0 | So I can't afford to learn how to use vi :) | 22:18 |
| Ohm | krazytekn0: fyi, the human brain can remember more than you can absorb in a lifetime, counting in bits of info | 22:18 |
| Ohm | things tend to fade into obscurity for some reason, though | 22:19 |
| Ohm | prevent this by practicing | 22:19 |
| Ohm | works in learning languages, works in using text editors | 22:19 |
| krazytekn0 | Ohm: but... how do you know what our brain is really learning?... | 22:19 |
| krazytekn0 | The amount of info (in bits) that a human brain extracts from any situation/circumstance is not limited to just that which one is trying to learn | 22:20 |
| Ohm | krazytekn0: most research shows that you don't lose memory, you just lose the ability to access it | 22:20 |
| krazytekn0 | Ohm: so we need more address space? | 22:20 |
| Ohm | the brain has capacity to remember all information you can absorb, filtered or not | 22:20 |
| Ohm | krazytekn0: Not really. As you may know, current science says memories are collections of neurons linked together | 22:21 |
| Ohm | any connection being used is also strengthened | 22:21 |
| Ohm | while unused connections fade | 22:22 |
| Ohm | this is true both for memories and feeling emotions | 22:22 |
| krazytekn0 | Ohm: so someone has been able to sit down and figure out the maximum number of bits of information presented to a human in a given amount of time? that sounds impossible to me... | 22:22 |
| Ohm | krazytekn0: It probably wasn't done in a single sitting. ;) | 22:23 |
| krazytekn0 | Ohm: It probably wasn't done. | 22:23 |
| Ohm | I think what they counted is the amount of possibly representable states, by counting the number of ways the neurons can be connected. | 22:23 |
| Ohm | krazytekn0: Have you been reading cognitive psychology? | 22:24 |
| krazytekn0 | I agree with most of what you are saying, but a blanket statement like that is so improbably hard to prove...It's akin to finding the Ramsey number of (10,10) | 22:24 |
| Ohm | It's not about proving, it's about disproving. ;) | 22:24 |
| Ohm | Anyways, what the brain can store and what is useful for us are entirely different | 22:25 |
| krazytekn0 | Ohm: that's exactly what I'm saying. | 22:25 |
| Ohm | obviously the mechanism for information access does not allow us to remember everything | 22:25 |
| Ohm | All I want to get at is don't limit yourself based on negative ideas like that | 22:26 |
| krazytekn0 | Ohm: did you see the :) ? that means I was joking | 22:26 |
| krazytekn0 | I'm still just playing around by the way | 22:26 |
| Ohm | heh, I didn't see it actually | 22:26 |
| krazytekn0 | I don't want this to be construed as an argument | 22:27 |
| Ohm | me neither | 22:27 |
| Ohm | I think we were getting along | 22:27 |
| krazytekn0 | Ok, ya just never know on teh intarwebs! | 22:27 |
| Ohm | i am just lying around feeling good about myself | 22:27 |
| Ohm | indeed | 22:27 |
| Ohm | watching Surplus, going to head to bed in a bit | 22:28 |
| Ohm | i really like the way they've mixed music and imagery | 22:30 |
| Ohm | Well, heading to bed now. Good night fellas | 22:31 |
| krazytekn0 | night | 22:31 |
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| mithro | afternoon people | 22:53 |
| llnz | hi mithro | 22:53 |
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| mithro | Ohm / JLP: any chance to view the videos? | 23:01 |
| JLafont | allo mithro | 23:04 |
| llnz | it was an interesting day, i'll have to remember to sign into IRC from uni more often | 23:11 |
| * llnz wanders home | 23:11 | |
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| mithro | hi JLafont | 23:12 |
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| JLafont | how is it going? | 23:43 |
| mithro | pretty good | 23:44 |
| JLafont | awesome. | 23:45 |
| JLafont | So I have a basic Idea of what to do with the AI, I just need to flesh it out a little bit more | 23:45 |
| JLafont | I think the hardest thing would be to figure out how to abstract the AI to work for multiple rulesets | 23:45 |
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| JLafont | I'll try to work on it more when I don't have the flu and thus don't have to pass out every 2 hours | 23:47 |
| mithro | JLafont: okay cool | 23:47 |
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