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| greywhind_ | mithro: maybe in a few minutes | 00:08 |
|---|---|---|
| mithro | greywhind_: okay | 00:11 |
| mithro | poke when you have time | 00:12 |
| mithro | hrm no Appleman1234 | 00:20 |
| mithro | ~seen Appleman1234 | 00:20 |
| tpb | mithro: Appleman1234 was last seen in #tp 1 day, 0 hours, 34 minutes, and 45 seconds ago: <Appleman1234> but I would like to finish a significant portion of work on it when I should have done by end of today before doing either | 00:20 |
| greywhind_ | mithro: poke... though i'm rather tired | 00:30 |
| mithro | greywhind_: so we have about 3 months until you officially finish, right? | 00:31 |
| *** greywhind_ is now known as greywhind | 00:31 | |
| greywhind | mithro: yeah | 00:32 |
| greywhind | mithro: although I'd like to apply for the Summer of Code as well | 00:32 |
| mithro | assuming we get into it | 00:32 |
| greywhind | right | 00:32 |
| mithro | of course you are *very* welcome to be a normal volunteer :P | 00:33 |
| greywhind | mithro: yeah, but it would be nice to have the SOC tacked on as well. | 00:34 |
| mithro | greywhind: of course :P | 00:35 |
| mithro | greywhind: so my goals with tpclient-pywx over the next couple months is | 00:36 |
| mithro | 1. Finish the XRC replacement | 00:36 |
| mithro | 2. Get into a 3 month release cycle | 00:37 |
| mithro | 3. Concentrate on making it easy to use tpclient-pywx | 00:37 |
| mithro | I'm hoping for a 0.3.1 in the middle of march | 00:38 |
| greywhind | mithro: all sound good | 00:38 |
| mithro | so what do you think you would like to work on? | 00:41 |
| greywhind | mithro: ease of use, perhaps? or any XRC replacement you need help with? | 00:41 |
| mithro | greywhind: on a side note, it should be pretty easy to do the next release | 00:42 |
| greywhind | mithro: that's good | 00:42 |
| mithro | greywhind: won't have all the "we haven't done a release since major changes" have pretty much been ironed out | 00:42 |
| mithro | bah, that sentance kind of changed direction in the middle | 00:42 |
| mithro | greywhind: all the "we haven't done a release since major changes" bugs have pretty much been ironed out | 00:42 |
| greywhind | mithro: oh, by the way, have you managed to find a way to get a Windows build of 0.3.0? | 00:43 |
| mithro | greywhind: yeah | 00:43 |
| greywhind | mithro: because i'd like to show it to a couple of people | 00:45 |
| mithro | greywhind: yeah, I hope to do an upload tonight | 00:45 |
| mithro | I ran into similar style of problems you with when packaging mac | 00:45 |
| mithro | hence the like 10 commits last night | 00:45 |
| greywhind | mithro: i see. | 00:50 |
| greywhind | mithro: did my most recent package work, by the way? | 00:50 |
| mithro | greywhind: not sure | 00:50 |
| mithro | I need to poke the guy again | 00:50 |
| mithro | I'm pretty sure it will | 00:50 |
| greywhind | mithro: k. any problems, let me know | 00:50 |
| mithro | will do | 00:51 |
| mithro | greywhind: so any idea what specifically you want to work on? | 00:52 |
| mithro | how are the forward/back buttons going? | 00:52 |
| greywhind | mithro: well, i don't know what you'd like to change, interface-wise, to be more user-friendly | 00:52 |
| mithro | greywhind: well - you must have your own thoughts on that | 00:52 |
| greywhind | mithro: the forward/back buttons work, but i may move them since you think they'd be better elsewhere | 00:52 |
| mithro | what don't you think works, how could it be better? | 00:53 |
| greywhind | mithro: i've been working on the layout bug, and I'm still not sure what's wrong with it. | 00:53 |
| mithro | I'm going to see if I can borrow a Mac box to give it a try on | 00:53 |
| greywhind | mithro: hmm... the downloading of the images slows down the client - maybe it should be an option, or user-initiated | 00:54 |
| mithro | greywhind: it does? | 00:54 |
| mithro | it shouldn't | 00:54 |
| greywhind | mithro: yeah, while images are downloading, it's nearly impossible to interact with the client. | 00:54 |
| mithro | greywhind: oh, that sucks :( | 00:55 |
| greywhind | could just be my lack of RAM, i suppose | 00:55 |
| greywhind | mithro: i noticed it most when using the forward/back buttons | 00:55 |
| mithro | greywhind: what type of machine do you have? | 00:55 |
| greywhind | mithro: Intel iMac, 1.8 ghz dual core, 512 mb ram | 00:56 |
| mithro | okay | 00:56 |
| mithro | what speed connection? | 00:56 |
| greywhind | mithro: 7 mbps down, 512 kbps up | 00:57 |
| mithro | okay | 00:57 |
| greywhind | mithro: only happens when i select a bunch at once and it brings up the progress bar for the download | 00:58 |
| mithro | greywhind: does it still do it since disabling the MediaDownload prints? | 00:58 |
| greywhind | mithro: yeah | 00:58 |
| mithro | okay | 00:58 |
| mithro | I'll have a look into that | 00:58 |
| greywhind | mithro: i think it has something to do with the progress bar taking all the processor power | 00:59 |
| mithro | greywhind: yeah - we probably need to rate limit the download progress messages | 00:59 |
| mithro | (atleast on the mac platform) | 00:59 |
| greywhind | mithro: seems likely | 00:59 |
| greywhind | mithro: is there supposed to be a way for players to send each other messages? or is the messages window only for auto-notifications at the moment? | 01:00 |
| mithro | greywhind: only for auto-notifications | 01:01 |
| mithro | it would be good if we could support filtering the messages | 01:01 |
| greywhind | mithro: i think players being able to send messages would be a great feature to add at some point, then | 01:01 |
| mithro | greywhind: I think the server probably supports it | 01:01 |
| mithro | the protocol definately does | 01:01 |
| greywhind | mithro: i mean, that would allow diplomacy and such without having to resort to outside communication like IRC or e-mail | 01:02 |
| mithro | greywhind: so what is your time going to be like over the next 3 months then? | 01:02 |
| greywhind | mithro: similar to how it has been recently. an average of at least 5 hours a week. | 01:02 |
| mithro | greywhind: you see this - http://www.ohloh.net/projects/3679/analyses/latest/contributors | 01:02 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/1F$3> (at www.ohloh.net) | 01:02 |
| greywhind | mithro: yep :) | 01:02 |
| mithro | your our 9th biggest commiter :) | 01:03 |
| mithro | greywhind: do you have finals/important exams/etc ? | 01:03 |
| greywhind | mithro: eventually i'll have a few finals. | 01:03 |
| greywhind | not until mid-late may though. | 01:04 |
| mithro | greywhind: is this your last year of high school? | 01:07 |
| greywhind | mithro: yeah | 01:07 |
| mithro | greywhind: so you have about 60 hours of work left | 01:08 |
| mithro | 5 hours a week, 4 weeks a month, 3 months? | 01:08 |
| greywhind | mithro: officially, yes, about 60 | 01:08 |
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| mithro | greywhind: do you need to show that you achieved something by then or? | 01:09 |
| greywhind | mithro: i just have to keep my hours log going and write about my work each quarter, as i have been | 01:09 |
| greywhind | mithro: and get your evaluations for this quarter and the next | 01:09 |
| mithro | greywhind: okay | 01:10 |
| greywhind | mithro: the new version of the client should show that i've been doing something :P | 01:10 |
| llnz | mithro: add me to the TP Group on LinkedIn please | 01:10 |
| mithro | so you would like to work on the messages interface? | 01:10 |
| greywhind | mithro: i could try that, if you'd like. i'm open to other things, though, if you would like something else improved | 01:11 |
| mithro | greywhind: I'm wondering if you should put some more time into various overlay stuff? - although I'm happy for you to work on what _you_ want | 01:12 |
| greywhind | mithro: yeah, overlays are good too. anything specific? | 01:12 |
| mithro | greywhind: well - maybe the first thing would be the multiple resource selection? | 01:13 |
| greywhind | mithro: ah. yeah, forgot about that. | 01:13 |
| greywhind | i'll start with that, and then we can decide where to go from there. | 01:15 |
| mithro | llnz: you have been approved, and I added you as a manager | 01:15 |
| mithro | okay | 01:15 |
| llnz | cool, thanks | 01:15 |
| mithro | somewhere in the next 6-8 months tpclient-pywx will move to tp04 | 01:15 |
| mithro | nash: your now a manager too | 01:15 |
| nash | okay | 01:16 |
| * nash resists temptation to add the 's' | 01:16 | |
| greywhind | mithro: anything else you'd like to talk about? | 01:18 |
| mithro | greywhind: no, that is all | 01:19 |
| greywhind | mithro: k. see you tomorrow, probably. i might not be here Friday - i've got a Robotics tournament to go to all day. | 01:19 |
| greywhind | (that's my Friday) | 01:19 |
| greywhind | so... saturday morning for you, i believe. | 01:20 |
| mithro | currently averaging about one commit very 4.5 hours :) | 01:20 |
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| CIA-19 | llnz tpserver-cpp * rf7da3888e64f /tpserver/ (playerview.cpp playerview.h): | 03:38 |
| CIA-19 | Made Design mod list work like Components, much simpler. | 03:38 |
| CIA-19 | Also noted change to maximum number of ids in a <foo>Ids_List frames has | 03:38 |
| CIA-19 | dropped by one with TP04 fromtime field. | 03:38 |
| mithro | hey llnz | 03:40 |
| llnz | hi mithro | 03:41 |
| mithro | so when can we expect a tpserver-cpp release? | 03:42 |
| llnz | when i get to it | 03:42 |
| llnz | at a guess, between 2 week and 6 months | 03:46 |
| mithro | :( | 03:47 |
| mithro | i'm hoping to do a 0.3.1 release in middle of march | 03:47 |
| llnz | when are you going to announce 0.3.0? | 03:48 |
| mithro | probably this weekend | 03:49 |
| llnz | ok, cool | 03:49 |
| mithro | we now have working windows an mac os x binaries | 03:49 |
| llnz | neat | 03:50 |
| mithro | I spent my yesterday evening working on getting it packaged under windows | 03:50 |
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| CIA-19 | llnz tpserver-cpp * r2464a651bdf4 /tpserver/playeragent.cpp: | 06:25 |
| CIA-19 | Properties now support TP04 difference lists. | 06:25 |
| CIA-19 | As a side effect, the list of property Ids now contains the real modtime | 06:25 |
| CIA-19 | for the property instead of 0. That might help clients. | 06:25 |
| CIA-19 | llnz tpserver-cpp * ra60ebdd1dc6d /tpserver/playeragent.cpp: | 06:35 |
| CIA-19 | Category support TP04 difference lists. | 06:35 |
| CIA-19 | Basically the same as properties, and same side effects. | 06:35 |
| CIA-19 | llnz tpserver-cpp * ra15a07330788 /tpserver/playeragent.cpp: | 06:44 |
| CIA-19 | Resource Description does difference lists. | 06:44 |
| CIA-19 | Same as Category and Property. | 06:44 |
| CIA-19 | llnz tpserver-cpp * rf8968dec9472 /tpserver/playeragent.cpp: | 07:01 |
| CIA-19 | Fixed size check for get<foo>Ids (or types) frames. | 07:01 |
| CIA-19 | Gives limited support for TP04. Done in Object, Board, OrderType and ObjectType. | 07:01 |
| mithro | yay :) | 07:08 |
| llnz | just need to finish object, objecttype, board and ordertype for difference lists to be done | 07:10 |
| llnz | quick checklist: | 07:12 |
| llnz | - difference lists | 07:12 |
| llnz | - object view | 07:12 |
| llnz | - fixed persistence | 07:12 |
| llnz | then i can release tpserver-cpp | 07:12 |
| * llnz wanders off | 07:15 | |
| llnz | later all | 07:15 |
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| remaxim | hi | 15:25 |
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| remaxim | hi nash, are you there? | 17:24 |
| remaxim | ping mithro | 17:24 |
| mithro | remaxim: pong, sorry at work so can't really talk to much | 17:24 |
| remaxim | np... if I have a specific question, may I ask it? | 17:25 |
| nash | remaxim: yo! | 17:25 |
| remaxim | hi nash, great to see you here ... | 17:25 |
| nash | remaxim: I'm here most days ;-) | 17:26 |
| remaxim | I know... but I live in germany! so it would be better for me if you were here most nights ;) | 17:26 |
| nash | Anyway.. you poked? | 17:28 |
| remaxim | poked? | 17:28 |
| remaxim | sorry but what exactly do you mean with poked? | 17:29 |
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| nash | You asked if I was there - poke in irc slang | 17:30 |
| remaxim | oh... yes! | 17:30 |
| remaxim | I could need a link to the mailing list archives so I can ask some questions ;) | 17:31 |
| nash | Okay.. off the website somewhere.. | 17:31 |
| remaxim | I think I found it | 17:32 |
| nash | I just have all the emails locally ;-) procmail puts them all in ~/Mail/Lists/TPDevel ;-) | 17:32 |
| remaxim | okay... you're right about my method to play those tracks... it's not good at all | 17:33 |
| nash | You tried it? | 17:34 |
| remaxim | nope... I mean the idea behind it | 17:34 |
| remaxim | brb | 17:34 |
| nash | okay | 17:35 |
| nash | remaxim: let me know when you are back | 17:37 |
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| mithro | remaxim: sure, please feel free to ask | 17:46 |
| mithro | I'll try and get back to you | 17:46 |
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| remaxim | re | 17:47 |
| remaxim | nash, about that new songs you wanted to have: I ll start working on a battle track as soon as there is a good version of the battleviewer | 17:48 |
| nash | Okay | 17:49 |
| remaxim | I can't imagine right now how to add a hurry up song or a beginning song | 17:49 |
| nash | Just a quicker tempo | 17:49 |
| remaxim | btw. I think G 9-2 is a good beginning song ... | 17:49 |
| remaxim | that's not super mario ;) but I can try it out I ll tell you how it sounds to me | 17:49 |
| remaxim | ok... maybe G 9-2 isn't that good at the beginning, I just think that the main melody in the middle is quite like "looking forward to lots of plunder" | 17:51 |
| nash | Yes | 17:52 |
| remaxim | ok, maybe we ll talk about those songs another time, as I don't have too much time these days to do anything | 17:52 |
| nash | That I can understand | 17:53 |
| remaxim | nash, do you have a link to galaxie for me? | 17:53 |
| nash | And I don't mind G 9-2 at the beginning | 17:54 |
| nash | remaxim: It's in the tp revision control, but chances are you won't be able to use at the moment | 17:54 |
| remaxim | mithro, how does CC-BY-SA sound to you? | 17:54 |
| nash | there is no stable release | 17:54 |
| remaxim | ah... ok :( | 17:54 |
| remaxim | are there any screenshots? | 17:54 |
| nash | There used to be... | 17:55 |
| * nash looks | 17:55 | |
| remaxim | are they looking good? | 17:55 |
| nash | remaxim: Average | 17:55 |
| nash | Actually give me a week or two, I want to get a few things ironed out, and then sort of build to a release | 17:56 |
| nash | It's annoyingly close, but I need to wait for debian pacakges to be in | 17:56 |
| remaxim | when do you need the music? | 17:57 |
| remaxim | or the license of the music | 17:57 |
| remaxim | nash, you told me that about not approved licenses: "Not directly, but I can get advice on licences easily enough." ... may I ask where? | 18:00 |
| nash | remaxim: I can add the music in at any time. | 18:01 |
| nash | And if it is in a central place it si good | 18:01 |
| remaxim | ok | 18:01 |
| nash | And I have enough for now - I probably need to be careful, so need to package seperately | 18:02 |
| nash | Ideally mithro should set you up a svn repo and you can push the tracks there (git is not so good for large binaries) when they are ready, else a generic upload account to send them too | 18:03 |
| mithro | we have a subversion repository for media | 18:03 |
| nash | Then have a script to repackage when they change, and a downloader in galaxie & tpclient-py to get them | 18:03 |
| nash | mithro: Does remaxim have commit access? | 18:04 |
| mithro | nash: not yet | 18:04 |
| remaxim | err... there is a file telling that every content in the media repository is gpl.... | 18:04 |
| remaxim | my tracks definitely won't be released under the gpl... | 18:05 |
| nash | remaxim: Not sure what GPL means for music either | 18:05 |
| remaxim | yep, that's what it's about! gpl just isn't made for music | 18:06 |
| remaxim | nash, you told me that you could get some advise about licenses... I have a very interesting license right here | 18:07 |
| nash | Sorry, basically I can get it through work | 18:08 |
| nash | We need to deal with varous CC ones anyway, and we do most of the common software licences | 18:08 |
| nash | remaxim: Which licence is it? | 18:09 |
| remaxim | it has no name yet ;) ... | 18:09 |
| nash | remaxim: One piece of advice we've been given multiple times is: Use the most common licence you can find which matches, in most countries _intent_ is imporantant | 18:09 |
| nash | (Canada is the exeception) | 18:09 |
| remaxim | I can send you the license ... it is quite short | 18:10 |
| nash | okay | 18:10 |
| mithro | my biggest concern is getting the stuff into debian | 18:10 |
| mithro | which means custom license is pretty much a big no-no | 18:11 |
| nash | indeed | 18:11 |
| mithro | (as it means fighting through debian legal) | 18:11 |
| remaxim | http://ubuntuusers.de/paste/38863/ | 18:11 |
| tpb | Title: ubuntuusers - No Paste Service (at ubuntuusers.de) | 18:11 |
| remaxim | mithro, I know... but maybe it's worth the fight! | 18:12 |
| mithro | I would really prefer either GPL or GPL and CA-BY-SA dual license | 18:12 |
| remaxim | I promise that if I could use that license, I ll would compose a lot more tracks as the motivation would be much higher | 18:12 |
| nash | mithro: What does GPL mean for music? An mp3/ogg sounds like compiled code - what is the human readable bersion? | 18:12 |
| remaxim | using one of the now given licenses is quite a pain in the ass... | 18:13 |
| nash | remaxim: There is always the public domain ;-) | 18:13 |
| remaxim | nash, maybe replace the gpl software with gpl games ... | 18:13 |
| remaxim | nash, public domain sucks in my eyes | 18:13 |
| nash | remaxim: It's simple, and most people understand it... ;-) | 18:14 |
| remaxim | nash, but not what I want ... and probably many other musicians as well | 18:14 |
| nash | ;-) | 18:14 |
| remaxim | my intention is to help free and open project without allowing everybody using your music for free in their non open or commercial software | 18:15 |
| remaxim | s/project/projects | 18:15 |
| nash | remaxim: Don't worry, I'm being facetious | 18:16 |
| remaxim | that license I ve send you is just a very early version... but what do you think of it? | 18:16 |
| remaxim | :) puhhh ... | 18:16 |
| remaxim | I already had too many ideology fights because of that license ... | 18:17 |
| nash | remaxim: It is like the old artistic licence and it has the same flaw. | 18:17 |
| remaxim | old artistic license? may I see that one? | 18:17 |
| nash | Basically I ship propeitry program + trivial GPL program + FSAAL media | 18:17 |
| * nash finds licence | 18:19 | |
| nash | http://opensource.org/licenses/artistic-license.php | 18:19 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/1Y7j> (at opensource.org) | 18:19 |
| remaxim | that's what is my problem as well... but if it's possible to add a sentence like " the main goal of the work of art should be to enhance the experience given by the free software " .... nobody can just add a trivial gpl program | 18:20 |
| remaxim | but I am no lawyer... I am just thinking of what is possible | 18:20 |
| nash | remaxim: Maybe spend some time looking at opensource.org - they have more licences then you can imagine | 18:20 |
| nash | remaxim: So I plonk galaxie on the disk and use the media there | 18:20 |
| nash | Main goals are relevant, the question is what can I do with it? | 18:21 |
| nash | Don't forget I need to be able to play it in my music player too | 18:21 |
| remaxim | if you plonk galaxie on the disk... then you have to sell that disk as "commercial game + galaxie" cause otherwise the main goal of the media would be to improve the experience of the commercial game ... as nobody even knew that galaxie is on that disk | 18:23 |
| remaxim | you're allowed to play it in your music player, because the license is about shipment, not about usage | 18:24 |
| nash | remaxim: Not at all, it's the main goal of the licence, not the media. And it's not a requirement, it's a goal | 18:25 |
| remaxim | how about it's not allowed to be used in closed source games | 18:26 |
| remaxim | as I already told, I am not a lawyers... I m just wanting to know what's possible | 18:26 |
| nash | I assume you mean closed source programs | 18:26 |
| remaxim | nope... closed source games! | 18:26 |
| remaxim | that way you're still allowed to play it with WMP or Winamp ;) | 18:27 |
| nash | So my closed source "educational utility" is fine, as is my closed source game + autoplay list for winamp | 18:28 |
| nash | ? | 18:28 |
| nash | remaxim: Seriously, it's a _hard_ problem. If you want CC-BY-SA-NC go for it, and we can work out a way to include it as appropriate. | 18:28 |
| remaxim | I don't know any way to act against autoplay lists for winamp! and I don't have any problem with individuals deciding that they want to listen to my music while playing a closed source game | 18:29 |
| nash | remaxim: I don't think you can. | 18:30 |
| remaxim | me neither | 18:30 |
| remaxim | nash, thanks but it's not only about those tracks! NC means for all projects that it causes problems... that license should be a compromise | 18:31 |
| nash | remaxim: For what it's worth, I fully recognise your intent. | 18:32 |
| remaxim | I can release it as CC-BY-SA for your project! I didn't put that much effort in it that I would be totally down if somebody "steals" the music for their game ... but it would be great to have a good license for future work | 18:32 |
| remaxim | and maybe that license could help open source games to get new contributors ;) | 18:32 |
| nash | remaxim: No one can steal it, BY is still there. | 18:32 |
| remaxim | nash, "steal" == use it for their closed source games.... that's why the quotation marks | 18:33 |
| nash | The issue is, for you to deal with, is are you happy for someone to use it with their program and make money? Or even shove it on a CD and sell it at store? | 18:33 |
| nash | I release most of my code under a BSD+notification licence | 18:33 |
| nash | You can shove it anything, and all you need to do is put my name in small writing in the documentation | 18:35 |
| remaxim | sell it at a store is not that bad... if people know that they can get it for free as well... there is still the SA clause... | 18:35 |
| nash | Exactly ;-) And it means your name is still on it | 18:35 |
| remaxim | using it for commercials, or closed source software is worse | 18:35 |
| remaxim | so may I ask where you could get some legal advise from? from someone you know or someone in the internet? | 18:36 |
| nash | But it is still open, and the people with the game can still use your music where they like - in fact the SA clause says they have to be able to do it reasonably easily | 18:36 |
| nash | remaxim: Through work as I said | 18:36 |
| remaxim | ah... ok! if you feel the same way I do about the license you could ask that person about the license | 18:38 |
| mithro | we pretty much can't a NC license | 18:38 |
| mithro | we pretty much can't use a NC license | 18:38 |
| nash | We have the company lawyer, plus we use one of the OSS specialists from Linux Aus (Brendan something) | 18:38 |
| remaxim | I mean it doesn't have to be bulletproof ( gpl isn't bulletproof as well if you look at ti-vo) | 18:38 |
| mithro | nash: oh? You contract Brendan Scott? | 18:39 |
| nash | remaxim: No, but then again a lot of kernel developers don't care | 18:39 |
| nash | mithro: Yes, that's him | 18:39 |
| nash | And yes, occasionally | 18:39 |
| nash | He is fairly expensive though :-/ | 18:39 |
| nash | He reviewed some of the licenceing for FancyPants for us | 18:39 |
| remaxim | you better don't ask the brendan guy ;) | 18:39 |
| remaxim | fancypants? sounds familiar to me | 18:40 |
| mithro | nash: he gave a talk at the Gaming Miniconf in 2007 :) | 18:40 |
| nash | remaxim: It's the product we sell ;-) | 18:40 |
| nash | remaxim: Ahh... | 18:40 |
| remaxim | http://teagames.com/ ;) | 18:40 |
| tpb | Title: Teagames.com - (at teagames.com) | 18:40 |
| nash | So did I ;-) | 18:40 |
| remaxim | in the top left corner ;) | 18:41 |
| nash | Ahh | 18:41 |
| nash | Yes | 18:41 |
| nash | We predate it | 18:41 |
| remaxim | I would sue them :D | 18:41 |
| remaxim | what do you have your lawyers for? | 18:41 |
| remaxim | ;) :-P | 18:41 |
| nash | heh - none on staff ;-) And if fst started sueing people like that, I'd resign ;-) | 18:42 |
| remaxim | fst? | 18:42 |
| nash | The company I work for - fst.net | 18:43 |
| remaxim | looks interesting | 18:44 |
| nash | generally ;-) | 18:46 |
| remaxim | no, the site of yours ;)... as well as the company | 18:47 |
| nash | heh | 18:49 |
| remaxim | nash, the song will be released under CC-BY-SA ... so you're free to use them as such ones from now on | 18:50 |
| remaxim | there maybe will be just some slight differences to the final versions... but that's OK | 18:51 |
| remaxim | have fun with them | 18:51 |
| nash | remaxim: thank you ;-) Cool | 18:52 |
| remaxim | if you're interested in that license you could still show it to your lawyers ;) ... | 18:52 |
| nash | Can you email it to me | 18:53 |
| nash | I'll slip it in next time we are talking media | 18:53 |
| remaxim | that draft is not by me... the guy who gave me this told me that RMS and Eben Moglen had the ideas for that license ( i trust him, but you don't have to) ... what I wanted to say is that there could be some (till many) mistakes in it | 18:56 |
| remaxim | is a rtf okay? | 18:56 |
| nash | fine | 18:57 |
| nash | rtf is good | 18:57 |
| nash | remaxim: The idea is understandable, and I like it, but not sure how the hell to make it work | 18:58 |
| remaxim | same as me ;) ... | 18:58 |
| remaxim | nash, your email add is the same as in the devel? | 19:02 |
| remaxim | *mailing list | 19:02 |
| nash | yes | 19:03 |
| remaxim | nash, you've got mail! at least you're supposed to have mail ;) | 19:08 |
| nash | I'll have it shortly | 19:09 |
| nash | I greylist ;-) | 19:09 |
| remaxim | ah... I just looked up greylisting... looks interesting :D | 19:10 |
| nash | remaxim: Not so effective anymore - botnets killed it | 19:10 |
| nash | Still useful | 19:11 |
| nash | Saves about ~50 emails a day | 19:11 |
| remaxim | maybe a usuall spamfilter is better? | 19:11 |
| remaxim | I think you should have that email by now... | 19:13 |
| remaxim | I just want to make sure that you have it and then go sleeping | 19:13 |
| nash | remaxim: It will take a while. I'll let you know if I don't have it tomorrow | 19:14 |
| nash | remaxim: I use greylisting & baysian & spammassissin | 19:15 |
| remaxim | that's quite much! I bet you still get many spam mails | 19:16 |
| remaxim | I have to get some sleep now... | 19:17 |
| remaxim | have a nice day! and thanks for trying it with the license | 19:17 |
| remaxim | bye | 19:17 |
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| mithro | jotham: have a good night? | 20:53 |
| jotham | yeah, spent a lot of time talking to a friend about the worthlessness of introspection | 20:53 |
| jotham | and now i am soldering switches to a usb interface pcb :p | 20:56 |
| mithro | jotham: so got any cool battleviewer stuff to show yet? :P | 21:22 |
| jotham | like i said, i've been reading the red book | 21:26 |
| jotham | you saw what happend when i asked a question on the forum | 21:26 |
| jotham | i spent an hour reading it today, and 1.5 hours yesterday | 21:26 |
| jotham | so this project its getting its share of my time | 21:26 |
| mithro | jotham: still working on the lasers? | 21:29 |
| jotham | well | 21:29 |
| jotham | being able to draw lines... | 21:29 |
| jotham | is pretty important regardless | 21:29 |
| jotham | next drama is figuring out how to detect clicks | 21:33 |
| mithro | one way that some people use is to draw everything in it's own color | 21:34 |
| mithro | and then detect the colour under the mouse pointer | 21:34 |
| jotham | heh | 21:38 |
| mithro | it's actually very good for opengl | 21:41 |
| mithro | because it lets you see exactly what people are clicking on as it's using the exact same layout | 21:41 |
| mithro | (and it allows for transparent bits) | 21:41 |
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| bddebian | Howdy | 22:16 |
| nash | heyo | 22:17 |
| mithro | hey bddebian | 22:18 |
| mithro | how goes that apt repository? | 22:18 |
| mithro | manage to bash tpclient-pywx into shape? | 22:18 |
| mithro | http://www.thousandparsec.net/debian/ is still looking pretty empty :P | 22:19 |
| tpb | Title: Index of /debian (at www.thousandparsec.net) | 22:19 |
| bddebian | Yeah, I'm trying to find out if /usr/lib/tpclient-pywx is actually allowed | 22:19 |
| bddebian | Of course in typical Debian fashion, I'm listening to the crickets | 22:19 |
| mithro | bddebian: well - do you want to assume it's the case for the moment so we can have debs? :P | 22:21 |
| bddebian | Well it seems to violate FHS to me but I'm no expert on the matter | 22:22 |
| bddebian | Where was that debian/rules file you showed me last night? | 22:22 |
| mithro | git.thousandparsec.net | 22:24 |
| bddebian | Doh right, thx | 22:24 |
| mithro | if you checkout our git repositories we have some debian directories where | 22:24 |
| mithro | http://git.thousandparsec.net/gitweb/gitweb.cgi?p=tpclient-pywx.git;a=blob;f=debian/rules | 22:24 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/1Y+B> (at git.thousandparsec.net) | 22:24 |
| mithro | you can also browse it on the web :P | 22:25 |
| bddebian | Just out of curiosity, why /usr/lib/tpclient-pywx? | 22:25 |
| mithro | bddebian: because that seemed to be what mailman and similar where doing | 22:25 |
| bddebian | Hmm | 22:26 |
| greywhind_ | mithro: not /usr/local/games? | 22:27 |
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| bddebian | Nothing should be in /usr/local.. :-) | 22:27 |
| mithro | bddebian: things which install from source go into /usr/local :) | 22:27 |
| mithro | unless you --prefix them somewhere else | 22:27 |
| greywhind | many games default to /usr/local/games | 22:28 |
| bddebian | Actually since it is architecture independent, it should really be in /usr/share I think | 22:28 |
| nash | greywhind: Anything packaged stays away from /usr/local | 22:28 |
| bddebian | Well /usr/games/ for the "executable" and /usr/share/tpclient-pywx for the others but I'm trying to confirm that | 22:28 |
| greywhind | nash: k | 22:29 |
| bddebian | This is the part of the FHS I am struggling with: | 22:33 |
| bddebian | /usr/lib includes object files, libraries, and internal binaries that are not intended to be executed directly by users or shell scripts. [22] | 22:33 |
| bddebian | Applications may use a single subdirectory under /usr/lib. If an application uses a subdirectory, all architecture-dependent data exclusively used by the application must be placed within that subdirectory. [23] | 22:33 |
| nash | bddebian: Isn't there a specific python packaging set of rules? | 22:34 |
| bddebian | Yes but mithro doesn't like those either ;-P | 22:34 |
| nash | bddebian: Tell mithro that if he doesn;t like them he can develop his own distribution | 22:35 |
| mithro | I have no preference | 22:35 |
| mithro | I just tried to copy what everyone else was doing | 22:35 |
| bddebian | :-) | 22:35 |
| nash | if he wants to get in debian &/or ubuntu, he needs to follow their rules - at least for packaging | 22:35 |
| bddebian | It might be fine, I'm just no expert on the matter | 22:36 |
| nash | bddebian: /usr/share/python-support ? | 22:36 |
| mithro | bddebian: I'm happy to change it if needed | 22:36 |
| bddebian | For example all of the python-support stuff is in /usr/lib/python-support/<pkg> | 22:36 |
| mithro | I think mailman is the best comparison | 22:36 |
| nash | mithro: It's an old package | 22:37 |
| mithro | the important similarity, is that things in Mailman should not be accessible via "python -c'import Mailman'" | 22:38 |
| bddebian | I wonder what would happen if I just ran dh_pysupport on the usr/lib/tpclient-pywx | 22:39 |
| nash | http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/ch-programs.html | 22:39 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/1Y+P> (at www.debian.org) | 22:39 |
| nash | A program using /usr/bin/python as interpreter can come up with private Python modules. These modules should be installed in /usr/share/module, or /usr/lib/module if the modules are architecture-dependent (e.g. extensions). | 22:39 |
| nash | Did I miss something then? /usr/share/tpclient-py ? | 22:40 |
| bddebian | That's what I think | 22:44 |
| nash | do it | 22:44 |
| mithro | bddebian: hrm that won't quite work if you have two versions of python installed? | 22:45 |
| mithro | (as the pyc/pyo files are version specific | 22:45 |
| mithro | ) | 22:45 |
| mithro | but maybe that isn't a problem | 22:45 |
| bddebian | We don't ship pyc/pyo files | 22:45 |
| mithro | bddebian: they are generated when you install the package | 22:46 |
| bddebian | I'll be deleting them :-) | 22:46 |
| mithro | in the post-install hook i believe | 22:46 |
| mithro | (I mean the debian package) | 22:46 |
| mithro | atleast that is what other python things do | 22:46 |
| bddebian | They're supposed to be built with --no-compile | 22:47 |
| bddebian | Gah, what have I gotten myself into?? :-) | 22:47 |
| bddebian | I barely know shit about anything and even less in python. :-) | 22:48 |
| mithro | bddebian: my thoughts would be use /usr/lib/tpclient-pywx until someone complains ;) | 22:48 |
| nash | I thought you didn't care? | 22:49 |
| mithro | nash: I don't care, but that seems like the path of least resistence and the most likely to get us packages today :P | 22:50 |
| nash | So will /usr/share/ and less likely to cause greif later | 22:50 |
| mithro | nash: installing to /usr/share requires modification of the source code | 22:50 |
| nash | mithro: Fix the source... | 22:51 |
| bddebian | Goddamn Valentines day, there's no on around in Ubuntu or Debian.. | 22:51 |
| mithro | nash: yes, I can do that - but I'm not doing another release today | 22:52 |
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| bddebian | How drastic of changes would be needed? Is it something I could easily patch? | 22:53 |
| mithro | bddebian: possible | 22:53 |
| mithro | bddebian: currently the script searches your library loading path | 22:54 |
| bddebian | Oh, hmm | 22:55 |
| bddebian | You aren't creating shared objects are you? | 22:56 |
| mithro | I guess the install script could rewrite the startup script with the hardcoded directory | 22:56 |
| mithro | let me just give it a go | 22:58 |
| mithro | bddebian: I think I have it sorted | 23:28 |
| mithro | was a little more effort then I had hoped | 23:28 |
| bddebian | :-( Sorry | 23:34 |
| mithro | bddebian: nah, that is fine | 23:35 |
| mithro | bddebian: i'm about to push the changes | 23:52 |
| mithro | you want to setup a repostiory with just the support libs while you wait? | 23:52 |
| bddebian | To git or where? | 23:52 |
| bddebian | mithro: Yeah, I can do that | 23:52 |
| mithro | bddebian: to git | 23:53 |
| mithro | I'll link you the patch when it's ready | 23:53 |
| bddebian | OK, thx | 23:54 |
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