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| mithro | sijmen: because of the niche type of game - and the fact that it's primarily developed on linux | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| jotham | the escape from linux is really the aknowledgement that UI matters, usability matters, and end users matter | 00:01 |
| mithro | and being OSS people care more | 00:01 |
| sijmen | For me it's mainly about the latter | 00:01 |
| sijmen | but a Gtk# inteface could provide a good Linux -and- Windows client | 00:02 |
| jotham | supplying linux and windows with a single good client sounds sensible to me | 00:02 |
| jotham | that's the majority of the universe right there | 00:02 |
| sijmen | would a dependency on Mono and Gtk# be problematic? And how about the KDE people? | 00:03 |
| Iwanowitch | They'll be able to run it just fine. | 00:03 |
| Iwanowitch | And there's Parsek, but I'm not sure on the state of that one. | 00:04 |
| sijmen | oh yeah, forgot about that oone | 00:04 |
| JLP | sijmen: i'll be trying to take care of KDE people, I plan to make it for KDE 4 so it should also run on Mac and Win | 00:05 |
| sijmen | You're the Parsek guy? | 00:05 |
| JLP | sijmen: currently it only connects to server and downloads the messages, have to do all other things when i get more time during summer | 00:06 |
| JLP | sijmen: yup that's me | 00:06 |
| sijmen | okay | 00:07 |
| sijmen | won't there be too much overlap with a Gtk# client? | 00:07 |
| nash | Well one thing to consider... most users are developers... most free software people use free operating systems. So all this talk of most users is a little biased at the moment | 00:09 |
| * nash would then make the argumetn - most thousand parsec players hace written their own client. | 00:10 | |
| sijmen | really? | 00:10 |
| sijmen | Well then isn't it time to come up with an intuitive interface that serves normal people? | 00:10 |
| sijmen | Normal as in non-programmers | 00:10 |
| nash | sijmen: There aren't a huge number of players at this point... | 00:10 |
| nash | Well yes.. | 00:11 |
| nash | But we also need games for that - minisec is not a really playable game | 00:12 |
| nash | Clients are high gloss components - people do them all the time | 00:12 |
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| sijmen | any good ones out there? | 00:14 |
| nash | Mine needs art... and a better AI. | 00:16 |
| nash | define good... High gloss, not at the moment - parsek is pretty nice looking. Needs more polish | 00:16 |
| nash | And completion | 00:16 |
| sijmen | yours is? (I'm losing track) | 00:16 |
| nash | Currently available only to myself and two other people. It has a built in AI - it's in teh AI comp ;-) | 00:17 |
| nash | It is based on evas (www.enlightenment.org). | 00:17 |
| sijmen | okay | 00:17 |
| nash | It is also fast ;-) | 00:17 |
| JLP | sijmen: as nash said, i can'z say mine is good as it doesn't even work yet for games, but i do have plans to work with KDE and maybe openUsability folks and try to get help from KDE Oxygen team to make it as nice as possible | 00:18 |
| JLP | sijmen: offcourse any tips from you will also be welcome | 00:18 |
| sijmen | aah nice | 00:18 |
| nash | sijmen: My point is however clients are a dime a dozen at the moment. They are high gloss projects. People like doing them... A web client is a little different... | 00:19 |
| nash | My one will work on any linux based phones/PDAs too BTW ;-) | 00:19 |
| sijmen | hmm | 00:20 |
| sijmen | yeah i see why, too. | 00:20 |
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| Iwanowitch | Pshah, mine will work on any modern phone, as well as probably on any modern OS :P | 00:21 |
| Iwanowitch | (three cheers for Java) | 00:21 |
| Iwanowitch | (no?) | 00:21 |
| nash | Iwanowitch: Spoken like a true person who has never tried to run the same java application on two different model phones | 00:22 |
| Iwanowitch | True :P | 00:22 |
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| sijmen | So, in different words | 00:25 |
| sijmen | there's no need for yet-another-tp-client? | 00:25 |
| nash | sijmen: Not quite... | 00:25 |
| nash | New clients just have to be compelling | 00:26 |
| sijmen | okay | 00:26 |
| sijmen | someone is texting me at 1:30 AM :S | 00:26 |
| nash | For what it is worth however I'd rather see development go into rulesets, generic artwork, server extensions, protocol improvements in general. | 00:26 |
| nash | That will push clients forward | 00:26 |
| Iwanowitch | I should really start working on that metaserver application. | 00:27 |
| nash | Good | 00:27 |
| sijmen | hmm | 00:27 |
| sijmen | Those rulesets.. how flexible are they? | 00:28 |
| nash | sijmen: In which aspect? | 00:28 |
| sijmen | What kind of games you can make | 00:29 |
| sijmen | to be honest, most space 4X games kindof all look and feel the same to me | 00:29 |
| Iwanowitch | It's generic programming, you could do anything the protocol can handle. | 00:29 |
| nash | sijmen: In certain respects they are the same. However they can be quite different | 00:30 |
| Iwanowitch | No first person shooters, for example :/ | 00:30 |
| sijmen | no? | 00:30 |
| sijmen | bummer | 00:30 |
| fizzleboink | haha damn I quite then | 00:30 |
| fizzleboink | :P | 00:30 |
| fizzleboink | quit* | 00:30 |
| Iwanowitch | Perhaps in version 6 :P | 00:30 |
| sijmen | wait | 00:30 |
| sijmen | the game isn't bsp based? | 00:30 |
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| nash | Iwanowitch: Actually tp05 has support for sending bsp trees... | 00:31 |
| sijmen | no skeletal animation, not even bump mapping? | 00:31 |
| nash | sijmen: bump mapping is for the client | 00:31 |
| nash | We just send mesh and textures ;-) | 00:31 |
| JLP | miChou: hello | 00:31 |
| sijmen | Now there's the problem | 00:31 |
| sijmen | we are all programmers, aren't we? | 00:31 |
| jotham | i'm 1/2 programmer 1/2 artist | 00:32 |
| nash | sijmen: Have a look at the proposals. The diplomacy in space is one example of a different ruleset different from your 4x game | 00:32 |
| miChou | JLP: hello | 00:32 |
| sijmen | Any serious applications for that one? | 00:32 |
| nash | Also on teh mailing list I posted a intersteller trader idea. | 00:32 |
| JLP | miChou: are you here for summer of code? | 00:32 |
| nash | Once again - quite feasable | 00:32 |
| Iwanowitch | Besides, why should they be in space? (except for the name of the project, obviously) | 00:32 |
| nash | sijmen: One proposal for it. One for the elite/trader idea | 00:32 |
| miChou | yeap | 00:33 |
| nash | Iwanowitch: No reason... except current version of protocol doesn't really support non-space ones | 00:33 |
| nash | Tp04 will be close however | 00:33 |
| jotham | Iwanowitch: the name? it could just be a really big planet =p | 00:33 |
| JLP | miChou: great to hear, did any idea from the list cache your attention? | 00:33 |
| miChou | i was thinking to work on the PotgreSQL data backend | 00:33 |
| sijmen | nash, two different? | 00:33 |
| nash | sijmen: two or too? | 00:34 |
| miChou | i had quite a pleasant experience with postgreSQL this winter and i want to continue it with something more "serious" | 00:34 |
| Iwanowitch | sijmen: yes, I think two different proposals | 00:34 |
| sijmen | okay | 00:34 |
| JLP | miChou: great, i guess you can start exploring the project or writing application then | 00:34 |
| miChou | yeah, i was going to ask for a little help | 00:34 |
| miChou | about where to start exploring the project :D | 00:34 |
| JLP | miChou: no problem, that's what we are here for | 00:34 |
| Iwanowitch | miChou: tpserver-spp, definitely. | 00:35 |
| Iwanowitch | *-cpp | 00:35 |
| miChou | of course. i'm totally NULL regarding python :)) | 00:35 |
| sijmen | Any serious proposals for the web client? | 00:36 |
| Iwanowitch | miChou: In that one, /tpserver/persistance.cpp and /modules/persistence/mysql/* might be related | 00:36 |
| sijmen | nah nevermind | 00:36 |
| JLP | miChou: did you find out where to get the code from the developers documentation page | 00:36 |
| miChou | kinda' sorta' | 00:37 |
| miChou | although it's the first time i hear about darcs :D | 00:37 |
| mithro | bblr | 00:37 |
| mithro | will read the IRC logs | 00:37 |
| Iwanowitch | They seem to love it around here, watch out what you say :) | 00:37 |
| nash | miChou: You familair with other RCSes however? git or arch? | 00:37 |
| JLP | miChou: yeah TP was also where i first heard about it | 00:37 |
| nash | Iwanowitch: I think it's pretty average... but it serves it's purpose. | 00:38 |
| miChou | not git nor arch... | 00:38 |
| miChou | i tinkered a little with SVN and (don't shout), Visual SourceSafe :D | 00:38 |
| Iwanowitch | I don't know, I only ever used SVN, served my needs. | 00:38 |
| nash | okay - similar to them (not as much as pain as arch however ;-) | 00:38 |
| nash | miChou: Sourcesafe is a popular commercial choice. | 00:38 |
| miChou | well, after using it last summer | 00:39 |
| miChou | i can say too | 00:39 |
| * nash thinks sourcesafes idea of "I'll just merge this conflict in a random way" is less then useful | 00:39 | |
| miChou | that svn was a lot better | 00:39 |
| miChou | :) | 00:39 |
| miChou | VSS just sucks | 00:39 |
| miChou | but we had no choice at the moment | 00:40 |
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| nash | Anyway for SoC - you'll find darcs will suit your needs very well - distributed dev, allowing you to share code with mentor without breaking mainline or even talking to the main server is all good | 00:40 |
| miChou | sounds pretty neat :D | 00:40 |
| Iwanowitch | I wonder, does darcs work fine over NAT? I'm on university network, and pretty heavily firewalled. | 00:41 |
| nash | Iwanowitch: You create the connection out - should be fine. People pulling from you will be trickier | 00:42 |
| nash | Anyway - worry about that later | 00:42 |
| t0dd | helloo | 00:42 |
| JLP | t0dd: ahoy | 00:43 |
| fizzleboink | hi | 00:43 |
| JLP | miChou: so you have darcs istalled already? | 00:43 |
| jotham | [email protected] | 00:43 |
| jotham | woops, w/w | 00:43 |
| miChou | not quite | 00:43 |
| miChou | i'm on windows right now and my main devel machine will be linux. | 00:44 |
| Iwanowitch | You could also just download the tar.gz packages from the download page, no? | 00:45 |
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| Iwanowitch | Or is the bleeding edge a lot different? | 00:45 |
| sijmen | Little question, does the protocol support polling of bits of data from the universe? | 00:47 |
| sijmen | instead of downloading it all | 00:47 |
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| Iwanowitch | sijmen: I suppose yes, there is a Get with ID Frame | 00:49 |
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| miChou | hello | 00:49 |
| JLP | miChou: welcome back | 00:50 |
| Iwanowitch | miChou: wb | 00:50 |
| miChou | thanks :) | 00:50 |
| miChou | so, it seems Feisty Fawn is quite up to date concerning Darcs | 00:51 |
| nash | sijmen: Yes | 00:52 |
| nash | You get objects individually | 00:52 |
| sijmen | so... | 00:52 |
| nash | You can also get a list of the objects that have changed (actually you get a list of all objects and when they changed) and pull the ones you need | 00:52 |
| sijmen | what's stopping people from making a web client? | 00:52 |
| Iwanowitch | sijmen: It doesn't have bumpmapping, I guess. | 00:53 |
| sijmen | one could implement that in a Java applet. | 00:53 |
| nash | sijmen: Nothing... it's just harder then a normal app in your favourite GUI toolkit | 00:53 |
| Iwanowitch | Hmm... A Java applet hardly qualifies as a web client to me :P | 00:54 |
| sijmen | Well I have quite a bit of web development experience | 00:54 |
| sijmen | only with ASP.NET though, not php. | 00:54 |
| jotham | php is pretty icky anyway | 00:55 |
| nash | sijmen: The other thing is most likely you need a client and a server | 00:55 |
| jotham | (in the context of the earlier playful mockery of perl) | 00:55 |
| sijmen | nash, why wouldn't I be able to connect to a normal server? | 00:56 |
| nash | sijmen: For a java applet.. you can probably avoid it - as long as the server is at the same address as the web page you downloaded. For AJAX... eek | 00:57 |
| Iwanowitch | I sense cross-site scripting vulnerabilities... | 00:58 |
| sijmen | I was kidding with Java | 00:58 |
| jotham | web app would just need an intermediate server to transform the tp info into web friendly info and manage the user sessions | 00:59 |
| sijmen | well, the page could refresh at turn tick time? | 00:59 |
| sijmen | jotham, isn't that just the wep app? | 00:59 |
| jotham | yes | 00:59 |
| sijmen | I mean, that's basically what any wep application does, right? | 00:59 |
| jotham | yes | 01:00 |
| jotham | i mean id on't see why there is *any* problem with doing a web client | 01:00 |
| sijmen | Me neither | 01:00 |
| sijmen | And no serious applications? | 01:00 |
| Iwanowitch | Go for it, then. :) | 01:00 |
| sijmen | Lemme see.. the 3D clients, plus mine makes 14 | 01:00 |
| Iwanowitch | There will be more in the final days. | 01:01 |
| sijmen | Yes I will go for it :) | 01:01 |
| sijmen | yah | 01:01 |
| nash | There is an application for a web app. | 01:01 |
| Iwanowitch | But is it serious? :P | 01:01 |
| Iwanowitch | (no offense to whoever wrote it :) | 01:01 |
| sijmen | Well, I'll do an applicaiton anyway. Never fired is always a miss | 01:02 |
| miChou | downloaded the sources, took a brief look, things look quite clear :) | 01:02 |
| nash | Iwanowitch: Yes | 01:02 |
| nash | miChou: Good to hear | 01:02 |
| mithro | arg, unstable wireless | 01:02 |
| Iwanowitch | sijmen: Very right. | 01:03 |
| nash | mithro: Shame you can't get some sort of metalic waveguide for those wireless connections... | 01:03 |
| sijmen | I tend to say to myself that I don't make a chance but I know very well that that's not true :P | 01:03 |
| nash | sijmen: Well apply - we'll pick the best applications. | 01:04 |
| nash | So you just need to make it better | 01:04 |
| Iwanowitch | You know the old adage... Wie niet waagt, blijft maagd. :P | 01:04 |
| nash | ;-) | 01:04 |
| mithro | nash: I was thinking of building one into the back of my backpack | 01:04 |
| nash | Iwanowitch: Not familiar with that one. | 01:04 |
| sijmen | Iwanowitch, I didn't know that one yet | 01:04 |
| Iwanowitch | 'Who doesn't try, remains virgin' - in Dutch it rhymes, though. | 01:05 |
| sijmen | nash, what makes an applicant 'better'. More experience? | 01:05 |
| nash | sijmen: More experience can go either way. | 01:05 |
| miChou | more implication ;) | 01:05 |
| Iwanowitch | sijmen: Also, better showcasing of knowledge of the subject, I guess. | 01:06 |
| nash | A better understanding of the problem, a good plan on how to do it, a better approach | 01:06 |
| nash | Iwanowitch: Not necessarily | 01:06 |
| Iwanowitch | Good plan, including things that could go wrong. | 01:06 |
| nash | It is also a learning experience. | 01:06 |
| nash | Iwanowitch: Absolutely | 01:07 |
| nash | Good testing plans is another case. | 01:07 |
| nash | A web application that says, "I will extensively test on Netscape Navigator 4.0.3 and 4.0.4" will get a lot less traction then someone doing tests on 8 browsers on 3 platforms | 01:07 |
| nash | Also a good clear proposal. | 01:08 |
| nash | Show us you know the project | 01:08 |
| nash | And you are interested in it | 01:08 |
| nash | We don't want anyone doing it only for the cash... | 01:08 |
| sijmen | I see | 01:09 |
| nash | sijmen: Hopefully I haven't scared you off ;-) | 01:09 |
| sijmen | No you've given me good advice | 01:09 |
| nash | Having said that your comments and updated plans for your other app were good. | 01:10 |
| nash | From our point of view we want two things: | 01:10 |
| nash | - Successful projects | 01:10 |
| nash | - Projects that are useful to making TP a success | 01:10 |
| Iwanowitch | Obviously. | 01:11 |
| nash | The second is the big one... people interested in TP are good no matter watch | 01:11 |
| Iwanowitch | I usually make a section devoted to the benefits to TP of doing the project, I suppose that would be appreciated. | 01:12 |
| Iwanowitch | 'Usually' refers to all three SoC application I made. :) | 01:13 |
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| miChou | all three for tp? | 01:13 |
| Iwanowitch | Two for TP. | 01:13 |
| Iwanowitch | One for KDE. | 01:13 |
| nash | Iwanowitch: Good ;-) | 01:13 |
| miChou | the kde one, was it on any idea from their page? (i'm planning to submit an app to kde too :D) | 01:14 |
| Iwanowitch | Yeah, the 'implement a Java backend to Kross' one. | 01:14 |
| sijmen | What is Kross? | 01:14 |
| miChou | nice :) | 01:14 |
| Iwanowitch | Don't think I make a very high chance of getting it, but it sounds like fun. | 01:14 |
| Iwanowitch | sijmen: a scripting framework for KDE apps. | 01:14 |
| sijmen | okay | 01:14 |
| sijmen | anything like AppleScript? | 01:15 |
| Iwanowitch | It allows a program to expose a couple of functions, that can then be used in Ruby, Python or Javascript, without the programs knowledge of which scripting language is used. | 01:15 |
| JLP | http://kross.dipe.org/ | 01:15 |
| Iwanowitch | The plan is to add Java to that list. | 01:15 |
| tpb | Title: Kross (at kross.dipe.org) | 01:15 |
| sijmen | I think KNaming is getting old.. | 01:17 |
| nash | sijmen: k naming was old when xclock first came in... | 01:18 |
| sijmen | I GSee | 01:18 |
| sijmen | or | 01:19 |
| Iwanowitch | Nono. iSee. | 01:19 |
| sijmen | i See# | 01:19 |
| JLP | yeah that's why i use namink for parsek :) | 01:19 |
| sijmen | I See 2.0 | 01:19 |
| Iwanowitch | Beta. | 01:19 |
| sijmen | that one did it :D | 01:20 |
| nash | Of course mine has evas, ecore, eet, and edje... | 01:20 |
| sijmen | I like 'edje' | 01:20 |
| nash | edje is cool | 01:22 |
| nash | Very nice system for themeing | 01:22 |
| sijmen | it sounds funneh | 01:23 |
| miChou | well, I think I call it a day. It's 3 AM here in Bucharest | 01:23 |
| sijmen | Oh.. Enlightment :) | 01:23 |
| miChou | thanks for the warm welcome ;) | 01:23 |
| sijmen | whoa | 01:23 |
| sijmen | goodnigh | 01:23 |
| sijmen | +t | 01:23 |
| Iwanowitch | 'night. | 01:23 |
| miChou | 10x | 01:23 |
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| miChou | my app should land anytime soon (after a nap :D ) | 01:24 |
| miChou | 'night! | 01:24 |
| fizzleboink | night | 01:24 |
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| Iwanowitch | Say, I suddenly wonder, what license is TP actually under? | 01:24 |
| Iwanowitch | Can't remember having seen this? | 01:24 |
| Iwanowitch | GPL? | 01:25 |
| JLP | yup | 01:25 |
| nash | sijmen: ? You know E? | 01:26 |
| JLP | and some LGPL too i think | 01:26 |
| sijmen | nash, by name | 01:27 |
| sijmen | shouldn't you be called enash? | 01:27 |
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| nash | sijmen: raster isn't called eraster... | 01:28 |
| nash | Besides, I only have non-trivial code in evas - not e itself | 01:28 |
| Iwanowitch | JLP: okay, thanks... Can't say I really care (and I definitely don't want to start a holy war), but it's good to know. | 01:28 |
| sijmen | It's got an e in it already | 01:28 |
| sijmen | No holy wars needed, Microsoft Shared Source rocks it all | 01:29 |
| JLP | Iwanowitch: there is some info on ohloh - http://www.ohloh.net/projects/3679/analyses/latest | 01:29 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/JZ3> (at www.ohloh.net) | 01:29 |
| Iwanowitch | Ah, cool. | 01:29 |
| Iwanowitch | Whoah, you had some explosion around the start of this year... New version released? | 01:30 |
| nash | Iwanowitch: AI Comp start as well - linux.conf.au was exposure too | 01:32 |
| sijmen | okay | 01:33 |
| JLP | battleviwer started getting into darcs, parsek was started, lee and mithro also started commiting more | 01:34 |
| sijmen | I incorporated all the great tips into my new proposal | 01:34 |
| sijmen | shall I pull the trigger? | 01:34 |
| JLP | it all ads up, looks like the project is waking up after being dormant for quite some time | 01:34 |
| Iwanowitch | It's alive! Run! | 01:34 |
| Iwanowitch | Speaking about running, I don't think I'll be awake for much longer. | 01:35 |
| sijmen | noes | 01:36 |
| Iwanowitch | toes? | 01:36 |
| JLP | yeah me neither, 2:40 here | 01:36 |
| Iwanowitch | Same here :) | 01:36 |
| Iwanowitch | Well, 2:39. | 01:36 |
| sijmen | 2:40. | 01:37 |
| Iwanowitch | Belgium is running behind, as usual. | 01:37 |
| fizzleboink | 8:40 here | 01:37 |
| mithro | is 12 noon here | 01:38 |
| JLP | fizzleboink: btw, where are you fro | 01:38 |
| fizzleboink | JLP: Canada, eh? | 01:38 |
| * JLP updates his secret file with this info :) | 01:39 | |
| mithro | shell script 23% <- that stat is soo wrong | 01:42 |
| mithro | oooh, google is giving a talk at my uni today :P | 01:43 |
| sijmen | submitted :) | 01:44 |
| sijmen | bbl | 01:44 |
| Iwanowitch | sijmen: was that one for a web app? Or something else? | 01:44 |
| sijmen | Gtk#. | 01:44 |
| sijmen | Will do web app tomorrow, it requires some more research | 01:45 |
| Iwanowitch | Okay. Good luck with it :) | 01:45 |
| sijmen | that'll make up for 3 proposals.. | 01:45 |
| sijmen | really gone now ;) for a sec | 01:45 |
| nash | w00t - 15 applications! | 01:48 |
| nash | sijmen: So could you do both clients together? | 01:50 |
| Iwanowitch | Okay. Let's get it up to 25 shall we? | 01:50 |
| sijmen | nash, not at the same time. | 01:52 |
| sijmen | I mean, I can't do both a Windows/Linux and Mac version | 01:53 |
| sijmen | but I think I can incorporate a lot of the features I had in mind for the Mac version into a Gtk# version | 01:53 |
| JLP | time to go to sleep, see you tomorrow | 01:57 |
| sijmen | seeya | 01:57 |
| fizzleboink | bye | 01:57 |
| Iwanowitch | bye. | 01:57 |
| nash | fizzleboink: So... did you submit an application then? | 02:00 |
| fizzleboink | nash: sorry I was working on a school assignment the past few hours | 02:00 |
| fizzleboink | just got back to it | 02:00 |
| nash | That's cool | 02:00 |
| nash | How many do you plan to submit? | 02:00 |
| fizzleboink | as many as I have time for :P | 02:01 |
| sijmen | whoa | 02:01 |
| sijmen | what kind of plans do you've got? | 02:01 |
| Iwanowitch | Man, sick shops... Someone explain... 1m UTP cable: 3 EUR, 1m UTP cable crosswired: 2 EUR, 5m UTP cable: 5 EUR, 5m UTP cable corsswired: 8 EUR. | 02:02 |
| fizzleboink | nothing special sijmen, it's just that I could potentially do one of a few of those listed | 02:03 |
| sijmen | Iwanowitch, that's... strange.. | 02:03 |
| sijmen | okay | 02:03 |
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| mithro | hi [1]Porthos you here for SoC? | 02:15 |
| Iwanowitch | Yawn, I'm leaving you guys... Have fun. | 02:16 |
| *** Iwanowitch has quit IRC | 02:16 | |
| sijmen | mithro, submitted my new application | 02:18 |
| [1]Porthos | Yeah | 02:18 |
| sijmen | but the light will be creeping in soon.. so goodnight | 02:19 |
| nash | sijmen: Sleep well | 02:19 |
| nash | [1]Porthos: Anything in particular caught your eye? | 02:19 |
| [1]Porthos | I'm interested in a few things | 02:20 |
| [1]Porthos | Developing a 3D client, a race designer, or one of the persistence modules | 02:21 |
| nash | Well you have a lot of competition for the first - so put in a good application for that ;-) | 02:22 |
| [1]Porthos | I'd guess so | 02:22 |
| nash | Race designer is currently un-applied for | 02:22 |
| nash | persistence - depends on which | 02:23 |
| nash | [1]Porthos: No mind - just make a good application | 02:23 |
| nash | Anything else you were thinking off? They don't have to come from the list remember | 02:23 |
| [1]Porthos | I know, just nothing comes to mind at the moment | 02:24 |
| [1]Porthos | Although I was thinking of doing the 3D client in C++ as opposed to Python | 02:24 |
| nash | There are a couple of those ;-) | 02:25 |
| [1]Porthos | Where can I get some information on how to go about designing the race designer? | 02:28 |
| [1]Porthos | Protocols, file formats and such? | 02:28 |
| nash | Well there are no file formats at the moment. There are no games with races... | 02:29 |
| *** sijmen has quit IRC | 02:29 | |
| nash | The protocol base it tp03 - although I'd imagine you'd need to expand that. | 02:29 |
| nash | It's a pretty open project that one. The first challenge will be narrowing down what you want to do with it | 02:32 |
| [1]Porthos | I see, looks like a good place to make an application then. | 02:34 |
| nash | Indeed | 02:34 |
| nash | TO be honest you will also need to consider a rule set most likely as a trial. It may be a big project | 02:34 |
| [1]Porthos | I will have quite a bit of time to commit to the project. | 02:37 |
| nash | cool | 02:37 |
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| * nash looks forward to seeing the proposal then ;-) | 02:58 | |
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| *** clayasaurus has joined #tp | 02:58 | |
| Epyon | Woah, everyone asleep? :> | 03:01 |
| nash | Epyon: Yes | 03:02 |
| nash | Epyon: See my questions? | 03:02 |
| Epyon | Heh, probably everyone in the GMT timezone :) | 03:02 |
| Epyon | Yes, I'll reply to them tommorow. | 03:03 |
| Epyon | I just came back home, and it's 4 in the morning, so it's probably not wise to reply to comments now :> | 03:03 |
| fizzleboink | nash: how is the game map generated? is there support for random/pre-made layouts? | 03:04 |
| nash | Epyon: Fair enough | 03:05 |
| nash | fizzleboink: Depends on the ruleset | 03:05 |
| nash | Minisec uses a random map | 03:05 |
| nash | A ruleset could define a fixed map (RFTS for instance has either a fixed or random map) | 03:06 |
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| fizzleboink | ok | 03:06 |
| * clayasaurus is still awake | 03:09 | |
| nash | clayasaurus: Now I can't recall which app is yours :-/ | 03:15 |
| clayasaurus | nash: Clay Smith, pyOgre client | 03:15 |
| nash | Bingo... | 03:15 |
| nash | You know you have serious competition... | 03:16 |
| nash | You really should apply for something else just in case | 03:16 |
| Epyon | nash, I'd ask each of the interface guys about "ease of use" and how do they imagine the clients looks. Like a fake screenshot or smth... | 03:17 |
| Epyon | Not in the artistic sense, but in the design sense. | 03:18 |
| nash | Epyon: Probably a good idea | 03:18 |
| nash | A UI mock up basically | 03:18 |
| Epyon | Because I thought about how a 3D client should look like, and there's no "definitive" answer. | 03:18 |
| clayasaurus | nash: hrm... might think about applying to writing MTsec ruleset, or is that one really popular as well :-P | 03:19 |
| nash | clayasaurus: There is another application | 03:19 |
| nash | But it is no where near as popular ;-) | 03:20 |
| clayasaurus | nash: alright : ) would you mind if I use the 'experiences with open source' section copied and pasted in a new app? or is that not appropriate | 03:21 |
| nash | Your call - plagerism from yourself is fine ;-) | 03:21 |
| Epyon | It's ok I guess -- at least I did something similar, but shifted the balance to the task in hand ;] | 03:21 |
| clayasaurus | yea, might try that | 03:22 |
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| clayasaurus | i should probably have a 1st draft done by tonight or early if I am lucky | 03:23 |
| clayasaurus | what's with me thinking words and then not writing them done, *early tomorrow if I am lucky | 03:24 |
| Epyon | to be honest, I wrote mine almost live, with one proofreading. I somehow can't do it otherwise :| | 03:24 |
| Epyon | Either I have everything in my head or not... | 03:24 |
| clayasaurus | I can't do that :-P | 03:25 |
| Epyon | I've hanged around here for a day before I formed a vision of what I want. | 03:25 |
| Epyon | That actually forms my greatest life problem -- I can't work on things I don't have a love to. | 03:26 |
| Epyon | If I don't truly believe in what I do, then it is worthless to me. | 03:27 |
| Epyon | But nash supplied that vision for both of my applications :) | 03:27 |
| nash | Epyon: Never been a muse before | 03:28 |
| Epyon | nash, lol :P | 03:29 |
| Epyon | nash, but I guess Elite was the keyword here ;> | 03:29 |
| nash | heh | 03:29 |
| nash | I intentionally thought of memorable stuff. | 03:29 |
| Epyon | nash, I guess it's like that magic word being spoken :P | 03:29 |
| Epyon | And to be honest, I have to think deeply on which of the applications I would prefer to do. | 03:30 |
| Epyon | Both have their advantages. | 03:30 |
| nash | heh | 03:31 |
| clayasaurus | deep thinking = good | 03:31 |
| nash | Epyon: It was meant to be a question to make you think | 03:31 |
| clayasaurus | unless you spend all day just thinking | 03:31 |
| Epyon | EliteSec is more in my "major" interest -- design is what I want to do in the future, and Elite: Frontier is what I want to remake someday. But the other task is more challenging, and more of a research and unknown territory thing ;] | 03:32 |
| Epyon | And more in the direction of my Master's Thesis. | 03:32 |
| nash | Epyon: There is always next year too ;-) | 03:32 |
| nash | And of course you can always do the procedural gen as your masters thesis anyway... And do both | 03:32 |
| Epyon | I might be in Japan working my pretty ass out next year xD | 03:32 |
| Epyon | BTW, nash, I was thinking of convincing my friend to apply to TP GSOC... she's a great PHP/database coder, she just lacks self-confidence... | 03:34 |
| nash | Epyon: Do it, she would be great for the metaserver then | 03:35 |
| Epyon | Yeah, that was what I thought. | 03:35 |
| Epyon | Is there much competition on the metaserver? | 03:36 |
| nash | not much | 03:36 |
| Epyon | Ok, I'll try to convince her. She's a little shy tough :> | 03:37 |
| Epyon | But as I understand, you'll benefit anyway, from the additional submission. | 03:38 |
| nash | We do - also based on last year and gnome, google may be happy to come to the party | 03:40 |
| Epyon | nash ? | 03:41 |
| * Epyon wonders if it's his non-native english, or is it something he doesn't know about :| | 03:42 | |
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| clayasaurus | google will... help out TP? | 03:43 |
| nash | Epyon: http://www.gnome.org/projects/wsop/ | 03:43 |
| Epyon | and each participant will receive a stipend of 3,000 US$. | 03:44 |
| Epyon | What will I work on? | 03:44 |
| Epyon | Talk about non-equal treatment :P | 03:44 |
| Epyon | But yeah, Google should add bonus slots to projects where a female is in the accepted projects list under the rule that the female will be taken :P | 03:46 |
| nash | Epyon: It was a cool gesture by the Gnome foundation, and then google matched it. | 03:48 |
| nash | Who knows.. they may help this year too | 03:48 |
| nash | Female participants are good for everyone. | 03:48 |
| * clayasaurus wonders if any guys would pretend to be women to get into SoC | 03:48 | |
| cherez | you'd have trouble caching the check... | 03:48 |
| Epyon | They cant. | 03:49 |
| Epyon | Yup. | 03:49 |
| cherez | unless you have a name with an ambiguous gender | 03:49 |
| Epyon | Though I could say that my name is female :P | 03:49 |
| clayasaurus | check would be 'for women only?' | 03:49 |
| clayasaurus | :-P | 03:49 |
| clayasaurus | Clay can be male/female, hrm... | 03:49 |
| cherez | have you ever known a female clay? | 03:50 |
| Epyon | The university could be charged with checkin' that though.... I don't know HOW they would do it :P | 03:50 |
| clayasaurus | cherez: yup | 03:50 |
| clayasaurus | cherez: i mean nope | 03:50 |
| cherez | I guess that would work then | 03:50 |
| cherez | I guess that wouldn't work then | 03:50 |
| Epyon | We people from "alien" countries have it a lot easier ;] | 03:50 |
| clayasaurus | cherez: i heard of someone else, but not personally | 03:50 |
| [1]Porthos | Does TP have a subversion repo, or darcs only? | 03:50 |
| nash | There is SVN mirror I believe | 03:51 |
| * nash doesn't know why you'd want it though ;-) | 03:51 | |
| [1]Porthos | I'm just gathering ideas and I want to take a look at the rulesets | 03:51 |
| Epyon | all this darcs advertising makes me want to check it out ;] | 03:51 |
| [1]Porthos | I just happen to be a svn fan | 03:52 |
| Epyon | so am I, but nash's good at tempting. | 03:52 |
| Epyon | Too bad I can't set it up on my webhost :/ | 03:53 |
| nash | Which darcs? | 03:53 |
| nash | It can run over CVS... | 03:53 |
| Epyon | I wouldn't set up SVN anyway. | 03:54 |
| Epyon | ICVS* | 03:54 |
| Epyon | I *did* set up SVN tough. | 03:54 |
| Epyon | Through the HTTP port :) | 03:54 |
| [1]Porthos | Are you guys looking at putting rulesets into a scripting language or loading rulesets from a file, as opposed to hardcoded? | 04:10 |
| Epyon | That would severly limit the options for rulesets. | 04:11 |
| Epyon | When thinking "rulesets" don't think "set of rules" think "games" | 04:12 |
| [1]Porthos | Yeah, I'm looking at the tpserver-cpp | 04:12 |
| cherez | in my project I'm looking to make a sort of ruleset file, but most rulesets will probably still require editing the server for now | 04:13 |
| nash | [1]Porthos: A scripting interface could be cool | 04:15 |
| nash | Tweakable paramters is probably too limited | 04:15 |
| [1]Porthos | I'm just thinking it could be coded up in Python for the most part | 04:15 |
| [1]Porthos | and the server just makes the calls to the appropriate script | 04:16 |
| nash | [1]Porthos: Well there is a tp server python for rules in pything | 04:17 |
| clayasaurus | will MTSec be implemented using python, or C++? or is it my choice | 04:17 |
| clayasaurus | the site says either | 04:17 |
| clayasaurus | I wonder if python will be much easier or what | 04:17 |
| nash | The winners choice | 04:17 |
| [1]Porthos | I'll take a look at the python server as well then | 04:18 |
| nash | Actually it should be part of your application | 04:18 |
| [1]Porthos | It will, like you said the project is pretty open | 04:21 |
| nash | We would prefer to spread people around so if we have two rulesets on different servers | 04:21 |
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| clayasaurus | is http://darcs.thousandparsec.net/repos/tpserver-cpp/tpserver/ the repos for minisec? | 04:25 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/KaF> (at darcs.thousandparsec.net) | 04:25 |
| clayasaurus | or am i way off... | 04:26 |
| * clayasaurus is looking | 04:26 | |
| nash | clayasaurus: In there you will find a minisec implementation in the modules directory | 04:27 |
| clayasaurus | good to know, thx | 04:27 |
| nash | There is a implementation in the python server too | 04:30 |
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| nash | in and out... | 04:40 |
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| nash | wecome back | 04:43 |
| [1]Porthos | Needed a quick reboot | 04:46 |
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| nash | [1]Porthos: Don't forget that you want us to be able to give you feed back on your applications. So it's better to put in one you can improve earlier then one at the last minute | 04:48 |
| mithro | currently in a Google talk :P | 04:49 |
| [1]Porthos | Ok, I will try and get one in tomorrow | 04:50 |
| * clayasaurus is worried that he won't have enough words for his next application | 04:50 | |
| [1]Porthos | It's 1 am and I have class a 8:30am | 04:50 |
| clayasaurus | all-nighter! :-P | 04:50 |
| * clayasaurus goes back to work | 04:51 | |
| [1]Porthos | Please, last time I did that was in the Software Engineering course | 04:51 |
| [1]Porthos | Not fun at all | 04:51 |
| nash | he | 04:52 |
| nash | h | 04:52 |
| [1]Porthos | Ever have to use a program called Rational Rose? | 04:52 |
| [1]Porthos | Clearly the work of some evil mind | 04:53 |
| [1]Porthos | I'll probably make two apps then, one for the race designer and one for a Python scripting interface | 04:54 |
| [1]Porthos | Although it seems like they can be tied together somehow | 04:55 |
| mithro | you havn't suffered Rational Rose until you tried to use it on a Sun Ray when 30 other students are trying to on 4 year old hardware | 04:55 |
| mithro | and it takes a full 17 minutes to start up | 04:55 |
| [1]Porthos | That does sound painful | 04:56 |
| nash | heh | 04:56 |
| nash | [1]Porthos: What do you mean python scripting language? There is already a (mostly) complete python server? | 04:57 |
| jotham | i have an o2 in the cupboard | 04:57 |
| jotham | i should get it out sometime | 04:57 |
| tpb | mode change by ChanServ on worldforge: -t | 04:59 |
| *** tpb changes topic to "Help us finish the game already! :) || http://www.thousandparsec.net/tp/rss.php || cpp-ser" | 04:59 | |
| tpb | ChanServ has joined on worldforge | 04:59 |
| tpb | mode change by purple.worldforge.org on worldforge: +o ChanServ | 04:59 |
| tpb | ChanServ has left on worldforge | 04:59 |
| [1]Porthos | nash: I mean that the C++ server would be able to run python code, and the python code would have some access to the memory space on the server | 04:59 |
| [1]Porthos | That way, games could be entirely coded in python, and it has plenty of other uses as well | 05:00 |
| * mithro beats tpb with a stick | 05:01 | |
| clayasaurus | command 'darcs get --partial http://darcs.thousandparsec.net/repos/tpserver-cpp' is giving me an 'libcurl: HTTP error 404' :-/ | 05:01 |
| nash | [1]Porthos: But you can write a game entirely in python now is my point | 05:01 |
| *** mithro changes topic to "Google SoC (due March 26th - Pacific) - http://www.thousandparsec.net/tp/google-summer-of-code-2007.php | AI Programming Competition (due March 31) - http://www.thousandparsec.net/tp/comp.php | Logs - http://www.thousandparsec.net/~irc/logs/ | metaserver - metaserver.thousandparsec.net | 2007-02-26, TP ranked 126th on SF" | 05:01 | |
| [1]Porthos | With the python server, but not the C++ server, unless I'm missing something | 05:03 |
| mithro | clayasaurus: hrm - it's working for me | 05:03 |
| nash | That's correct. But why make the C++ server do something we can already do? If it was a new language I could see the merit. | 05:03 |
| mithro | clayasaurus: proxy? | 05:04 |
| clayasaurus | hrm..., not that I'm aware of | 05:04 |
| clayasaurus | brb | 05:04 |
| mithro | go to http://darcs.thousandparsec.net/repos/tpserver-cpp in a web browser? | 05:04 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/Kk+> (at darcs.thousandparsec.net) | 05:04 |
| clayasaurus | yea, i can do that | 05:04 |
| mithro | then go into the _darcs directory | 05:05 |
| clayasaurus | ok | 05:05 |
| [1]Porthos | Just so games can be changed more or less on the fly, just by changing the script | 05:05 |
| mithro | see if tat works | 05:05 |
| [1]Porthos | Or you could add new games without a recompile | 05:06 |
| clayasaurus | mithro: that url on darcs command line? http://darcs.thousandparsec.net/repos/tpserver-cpp/_darcs/current/tpserver/ ? | 05:07 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/KkA> (at darcs.thousandparsec.net) | 05:07 |
| nash | Well games can be loaded using libdl on unix systems - so that is already taken care of (also the cpp server only supports running one game at hte moment :-( so restarting isn't a huge cost) | 05:07 |
| clayasaurus | mithro: yes, I can go inside that folder, if that's what you meant | 05:08 |
| mithro | clayasaurus: thats a bit weird | 05:08 |
| mithro | you can checkout from the sf svn mirror I guess | 05:09 |
| clayasaurus | svn.thousandparsec.net/repos/tpserver-cpp ? | 05:09 |
| [1]Porthos | nash: I see, I didn't see libdl | 05:09 |
| mithro | svn.thousandparsec.net/svn/code/tpserver-cpp | 05:09 |
| mithro | i think | 05:09 |
| clayasaurus | svn working for me now | 05:10 |
| mithro | or | 05:10 |
| clayasaurus | thank you | 05:10 |
| [1]Porthos | nash: The only other positive I can think of then is you could make a game without porting having it to the other server to support both | 05:10 |
| [1]Porthos | *with having to port it | 05:11 |
| [1]Porthos | without* | 05:11 |
| mithro | svn co https://thousandparsec.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/thousandparsec tpserver-cpp | 05:11 |
| mithro | i think | 05:11 |
| t0dd | Google Soc is due March 26th? | 05:12 |
| t0dd | I mean, it ends then? | 05:12 |
| nash | This is true | 05:12 |
| nash | [1]Porthos: THis is true | 05:12 |
| nash | t0dd: Applications yes | 05:12 |
| t0dd | I thought they were due the 24th :-S | 05:12 |
| nash | But if the first we see it is then - unless it is really good, we'll probably put it way down the list | 05:12 |
| nash | t0dd: It got extended | 05:12 |
| nash | [1]Porthos: Hence another language might be cool (lua... ) but I can't really say a python binding would be a high priority | 05:13 |
| [1]Porthos | nash: Ah, well I thought tp favored python | 05:14 |
| [1]Porthos | nash: I've been looking at making a scripting engine in lua for my own game engine | 05:15 |
| nash | mithro: favors python yes. | 05:15 |
| nash | Python is a better language for full apps then lua | 05:15 |
| nash | Lua is a nice scripting language | 05:15 |
| * mithro is not the only developer ;) | 05:15 | |
| nash | mithro: No, but you are the most influential... ;-) | 05:16 |
| mithro | well I did found the project :P | 05:16 |
| mithro | i'm commited money to the project too :P | 05:17 |
| nash | Indeed | 05:19 |
| nash | Not saying it wasn;t deserved. | 05:19 |
| nash | I was just pointing out - you like python | 05:19 |
| nash | And darcs | 05:19 |
| [1]Porthos | I don't see why there would be a large distinction between python and lua anyway, they both have similar feature | 05:19 |
| nash | Umm... not really | 05:19 |
| nash | Lua... designed to be embedded, tiny. | 05:20 |
| Epyon | Lua is faster. | 05:20 |
| nash | Python big and feature full | 05:20 |
| Epyon | Basicaly Lua is better for realtime apps, python for apps which don't count FPS'es. | 05:20 |
| nash | Epyon: Core language is - python can make better use of native libs to get speed in richer environment | 05:20 |
| Epyon | But for the second type I'd rather use Ruby :) | 05:20 |
| [1]Porthos | Well how about a scripting engine in lua used to load races into games then | 05:22 |
| nash | [1]Porthos: You just need a game to use them in ;-) | 05:23 |
| nash | Anyway - I need to bail lads | 05:23 |
| mithro | nash: well I kind of like darcs :P | 05:23 |
| nash | Good talking to you all... [1]Porthos: I look forward to your application | 05:24 |
| [1]Porthos | nash: Indeed, adding them to minisec might be a good test | 05:24 |
| nash | yep | 05:24 |
| nash | mithro: I know | 05:24 |
| nash | That's cool | 05:24 |
| [1]Porthos | nash: I'll have an app in tomorrow | 05:25 |
| fizzleboink | nash: almost done mine :) | 05:25 |
| mithro | nash: if you read my blog you'll know it bugs me in multiple ways | 05:25 |
| nash | mithro: I've seen | 05:26 |
| nash | fizzleboink: Cool | 05:26 |
| nash | [1]Porthos: Also cool | 05:26 |
| nash | bye... | 05:27 |
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| [1]Porthos | Whats the IDE of choice for tpsever-cpp? | 05:29 |
| [1]Porthos | Its not behaving well with code::blocks | 05:29 |
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| clayasaurus | yay I just submitted a new application, now time to catch some sleep | 06:05 |
| clayasaurus | byebye folks, goodluck | 06:08 |
| * clayasaurus zzz.... | 06:08 | |
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| mithro | wow 17 applications | 06:29 |
| jotham | yeah you've got a lot of action | 06:44 |
| jotham | it's cool | 06:44 |
| mithro | wow - somebody just applied from my hometown - to bad the application is really bad :/ | 07:01 |
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| jotham | heh | 07:35 |
| daxxar | :| | 07:36 |
| mithro | hey jotham | 07:40 |
| mithro | how goes the battleviewer? | 07:40 |
| daxxar | Morning people | 07:40 |
| mithro | hey daxxar | 07:41 |
| mithro | channel feels a bit empty today | 07:41 |
| daxxar | Just early :p | 07:44 |
| daxxar | Atleast over here ;) | 07:44 |
| jotham | good | 07:45 |
| jotham | i'm gonna make some more dummy graphics tomorrow | 07:45 |
| jotham | and am making the summary screen atm | 07:45 |
| jotham | will have to ask you about what it should display | 07:45 |
| jotham | but later | 07:45 |
| mithro | jotham: okay | 07:47 |
| mithro | i may not be on later tonight | 07:48 |
| jotham | yeah it'll be tomorrow | 07:48 |
| jotham | friends birthday is tonight | 07:48 |
| jotham | channels been busy as today eh =) | 07:48 |
| jotham | it's cool | 07:48 |
| mithro | just browsing the log | 07:52 |
| jotham | you done SoC before? | 07:53 |
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| mithro | jotham: nope | 08:08 |
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| sijmen | Morning all | 09:42 |
| *** mithro has joined #tp | 10:17 | |
| sijmen | hi mithro | 10:25 |
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| sijmen | I'm taking the TP Python wx clinet as subject for my UI design class, which consists of evaluation and redesign. | 11:07 |
| sijmen | I'll do this in English so the project may benefit from this. | 11:08 |
| sijmen | hmm bad wording. I'm going to write a paper that consists of an evaluation and redesign. | 11:09 |
| llnz | cool | 11:10 |
| sijmen | not an actual implementation of that design thogh | 11:10 |
| sijmen | If one of my UI proposals get accepted I'll flesh that out a bit more and actually immplement it. | 11:11 |
| sijmen | I'll be done in two weeks. | 11:12 |
| sijmen | (if no strange things happen) | 11:13 |
| JLP | hello all | 11:17 |
| * JLP checks if there are any new applications | 11:18 | |
| llnz | there is! | 11:19 |
| JLP | 3 new since the last time i checked, up to 18 now | 11:22 |
| mithro | yay 18! | 11:22 |
| sijmen | Wow what kind of new ones? | 11:24 |
| JLP | postgresql persistance module (not good application), content generator, mtsec ruleset | 11:26 |
| sijmen | Let's hope tp gets some slots then | 11:29 |
| sijmen | many of these things seem really nice | 11:29 |
| JLP | yeah, hope we get many slots, or that some of the applicants will stay with us and continue the work even if not selected | 11:55 |
| sijmen | yah. I will be.. but not in the summer | 11:55 |
| JLP | sijmen: great to hear | 11:57 |
| sijmen | At first TP didn't really seem attractive, but the more I read and play the more I'm starting to like it | 12:04 |
| sijmen | this seems to be a project I want to work on in my spare time. | 12:04 |
| sijmen | Most web-based TBS games have some kind of player-player messaging. How would this be for the web client? | 12:16 |
| daxxar | AFAIK the protocol doesn't support player-player messaging yet, does it? | 12:17 |
| sijmen | not as far as I know | 12:17 |
| sijmen | Maybe it would be web-client only | 12:18 |
| llnz | player<->player messaging can be done through the boards | 12:18 |
| sijmen | okay, I'll leave that out then. | 12:19 |
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| llnz | ~seen mithro | 12:20 |
| tpb | llnz: mithro was last seen in #tp 58 minutes and 21 seconds ago: <mithro> yay 18! | 12:20 |
| clayasaurus | just in case the mods didn't notice yet, I sent in a new app for MTsec :) | 12:23 |
| JLP | clayasaurus: seen it and read it, i think there is nothing to add from my part | 12:24 |
| clayasaurus | alright :) just checking ... | 12:25 |
| sijmen | that reminds me, I haven't had any comments to my Gtk# client proposal.. is that a good or a bad thing? | 12:25 |
| mithro | sijmen: it's a, so many apps - not enough mentors thing | 12:26 |
| sijmen | i see | 12:26 |
| sijmen | Well then I'll be worsening it by adding yet another one ;) | 12:26 |
| mithro | http://uncrustify.sourceforge.net/ | 12:27 |
| tpb | Title: Uncrustify - Source Code Beautifier for C, C++, C#, D, Java, and Pawn (at uncrustify.sourceforge.net) | 12:27 |
| mithro | sijmen: i've been quite busy today too | 12:27 |
| sijmen | 3 applications is quite much isn't it.. please know that I'm equally motivated to do any of the three. | 12:28 |
| mithro | http://universalindent.sourceforge.net/screenshots.html | 12:28 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/Kpe> (at universalindent.sourceforge.net) | 12:29 |
| sijmen | mithro: what is all that?\ | 12:29 |
| mithro | for llnz | 12:30 |
| mithro | to try and fix his horrible formatting in tpserver-cpp :) | 12:30 |
| llnz | hehe, not that bad | 12:31 |
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| * clayasaurus has to go | 12:35 | |
| clayasaurus | bye | 12:35 |
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| mithro | llnz: well with everyone else writing clients I can give up on tpclient-pywx and start working on tpserver-py again | 12:39 |
| mithro | and you'll be sorry :P | 12:39 |
| llnz | :-( | 12:39 |
| llnz | but i will have four rulesets.... :-) | 12:39 |
| mithro | but my rulesets will be a quater of the code for same functionality, so there ;) | 12:42 |
| mithro | http://www.thousandparsec.net/~irc/stats/%23tp-month.html | 12:45 |
| mithro | llnz: you need to talk more :P | 12:45 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/Kq3> (at www.thousandparsec.net) | 12:45 |
| sijmen | hah the activity graph | 12:45 |
| daxxar | Hmm | 12:50 |
| daxxar | I need a brilliant new idea for tp. | 12:51 |
| sijmen | A 3D client? | 12:51 |
| daxxar | I already submitted that ;p | 12:51 |
| daxxar | (and seemingly numerous others too) | 12:51 |
| mithro | daxxar: hrm.... | 12:53 |
| mithro | daxxar: are you bilingual? | 12:53 |
| daxxar | In programming or linguistics? :-) | 12:54 |
| daxxar | I'm a polylingual programmer, and a bilingual linguist. :p | 12:54 |
| daxxar | Wow, those two sentences were so fucked up. :p | 12:54 |
| sijmen | Let's just hope you're not polygonal :P | 12:55 |
| daxxar | ;-) | 12:56 |
| mithro | daxxar: well it would be really nice to add localisation to *everything* :P | 12:57 |
| sijmen | Is that a valid SoC project? | 12:57 |
| mithro | there is code needed in the server and the clients and the protocol | 12:57 |
| daxxar | Do you think that would make enough work? | 12:57 |
| sijmen | mithro: what's your other language? | 13:01 |
| mithro | daxxar: bad english and incomprehensible english (otherwise known as australian :) | 13:02 |
| sijmen | urr I mant daxxar :P | 13:02 |
| sijmen | *ment.. meant.. whatever | 13:02 |
| daxxar | and mithro meant sijmen. o.0 | 13:03 |
| daxxar | sijmen: Norwegian | 13:03 |
| sijmen | ah :) | 13:04 |
| daxxar | mithro: Though I like the idea, I don't think I'm the person to implement it. I personally despise using software that's translated to my native language. :p | 13:04 |
| sijmen | But is translating even okay for a code project? | 13:04 |
| daxxar | sijmen: It's not the translation that's the major part, it's adding support so translations can be easily done. :) | 13:04 |
| sijmen | oh of course | 13:05 |
| daxxar | I.e. reading strings from language files intead of hardcoded, and such | 13:05 |
| sijmen | would that be for.. one or more of the clients.. the server..? | 13:05 |
| sijmen | Because clients often can already use their underlying API, like with Gnome or Cocoa | 13:06 |
| mithro | sijmen: what about the text send from the server? | 13:07 |
| sijmen | okay. And more? | 13:07 |
| mithro | the tpclient-pywx is suppose to be using gettext - but i'm not sure i've got all the strings | 13:14 |
| sijmen | uh | 13:55 |
| * llnz wanders off | 14:06 | |
| llnz | later all | 14:06 |
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| sijmen | my classmate checked out TP | 14:14 |
| sijmen | he wasn't too happy about the pywx client | 14:15 |
| sijmen | so he's now thinking about workign with me on the paper, that would be nice, he's a smart guy. | 14:15 |
| JLP | sijmen: cool, say hi to him | 14:18 |
| sijmen | well I just said bye :P | 14:19 |
| JLP | ah well next time | 14:19 |
| sijmen | Hmm I think my last proposal is pretty much done | 14:19 |
| JLP | great, then we will need just one more and the limit of 20 will be broken | 14:21 |
| sijmen | I'm too tired for extensive spell and grammar checking... but I think it's okay | 14:22 |
| sijmen | submitted | 14:24 |
| DystopicFr1 | so is there a prize for being #20? a certificate? baloon? cake? | 14:29 |
| daxxar | What're you proposing? :p | 14:29 |
| sijmen | I proposed a web client | 14:29 |
| sijmen | DystopicFr1: a slot ;) | 14:29 |
| sijmen | no just kidding | 14:29 |
| daxxar | okay, sent in multiple proposals to tp? | 14:29 |
| sijmen | yeah this is my third and final | 14:30 |
| sijmen | I think | 14:30 |
| daxxar | what're the other two? | 14:30 |
| sijmen | A Mac/Cocoa client with an emphasis on intuitive UI, and a Gtk# client for Windows and Linux, especially targetted at the end user | 14:30 |
| daxxar | Ah, cool. :) | 14:33 |
| sijmen | It's just is that the current 'official' client feels more like an application than a game | 14:34 |
| sijmen | and now.. it's time to go home :) | 14:35 |
| daxxar | Hopefully one of those proposing a 3d client will be accepted as well. | 14:36 |
| daxxar | Some multiplatform shiny goodness. :) | 14:36 |
| sijmen | Yah it would be nice | 14:36 |
| sijmen | but not for me probrably :P | 14:36 |
| daxxar | Of course I'm crossing my fingers that mine will be picked, ;-p | 14:36 |
| daxxar | Why not? | 14:36 |
| sijmen | I have proposed 3 different clients ;) if a 3D one gets chosen, the chances another client is needed quickly slim | 14:37 |
| sijmen | yeah my toes are crossed too :P | 14:37 |
| daxxar | Aah, true. :p | 14:37 |
| daxxar | Well, there are three types of clients proposed, and a multitude of variants. | 14:38 |
| sijmen | but now i'm going home and catch up some sleep, wake me up 26th and don't forget to take some madical presonell with you | 14:38 |
| daxxar | Normal clients (python, yours, etc), web clients (at least two proposals) and 3d client (at least .. 3? 4?) | 14:38 |
| daxxar | Haha ;-P | 14:38 |
| daxxar | Sleep well :p | 14:38 |
| sijmen | yeah I could propose some other kind of project but I don't want to do something I'm not 100% motivated to | 14:39 |
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| JLP | Epyon: ping | 14:52 |
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| JLP | DystopicFr1: i've added some comments to your application | 16:18 |
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| JLP | oak_, Porthos_ hello | 16:36 |
| Porthos_ | Hello | 16:36 |
| JLP | are you here for summer of code? | 16:37 |
| oak_ | Hi, i would like to apply for some project of tp within the SOC, but there is mainly C++ or Python skills required on the idea pages. Do u think i might have chance to work on some project of yours only with C/Java(and modest knowledge of C++) skills? | 16:37 |
| JLP | oak_: well you can work on your own idea that uses C/Java | 16:38 |
| oak_ | u see i didnt make any project in C++ so far | 16:38 |
| oak_ | ah | 16:38 |
| oak_ | ok | 16:38 |
| oak_ | :) | 16:38 |
| Porthos_ | JPL: Yeah, I was talking to nash last night, I am working on my proposal | 16:38 |
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| JLP | it just happens that current code is mostly C++ and Python, but new code in new languages is always welcome | 16:39 |
| JLP | Porthos_: oh great elcome back, I just checked the log and see that you i've missed you the other day | 16:39 |
| Porthos_ | I had a quick question, what IDE is used for tpserver-cpp | 16:41 |
| Porthos_ | I tried compiling the code in code::blocks and got a bunch of errors | 16:41 |
| oak_ | fine then, i think im going to fully understand the concept of tp, how it works what does it consist of etc., but i like the basic idea of making "engine" for developing strategy games... if i understanded it wel.. | 16:42 |
| JLP | Porthos_: as far as i know lee is using just a text editor like kate/vim/emacs and then compiles the code with GCC | 16:42 |
| Porthos_ | How about the Windows port? Does he use mingw/cywin or visual studio? | 16:43 |
| Porthos_ | also, i might just be missing a library | 16:43 |
| JLP | oak_: yeah we are trying to first make a protocol which is the basis and designed for 4X space strategy games, then libraries are bult that use this protocol and then server and clients that use these protocol libraries | 16:44 |
| JLP | Porthos_: don't know about windows, i think that mithro was compiling binaries for windows, he wrote about it on his blog | 16:44 |
| JLP | http://blog.mithis.net/ | 16:45 |
| tpb | Title: Mithro rants about stuff � (at blog.mithis.net) | 16:45 |
| JLP | at the end of the page | 16:45 |
| JLP | and first part on the second page | 16:46 |
| Porthos_ | Alright, I'll have a look | 16:46 |
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| Porthos_ | Yup, exactly what I need, I'll try it out when I get home | 16:47 |
| Porthos_ | Then again, I might just develop it all on Ubuntu | 16:49 |
| JLP | Porthos_: yeah i guess it would be easier to start on Linux | 16:50 |
| Porthos_ | Typically, setting up a project in code::blocks and mingw can take some time | 16:51 |
| Porthos_ | I like to keep the code cross platform though | 16:51 |
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| sijmen | hi all | 16:52 |
| sijmen | hit 20 yet? | 16:52 |
| JLP | yeah, it is good if it is crossplatform | 16:52 |
| JLP | sijmen: yes | 16:52 |
| sijmen | 21? | 16:52 |
| JLP | no | 16:52 |
| sijmen | okay. What kind? | 16:53 |
| Porthos_ | JLP: How familiar are you with tpserver-cpp? | 16:53 |
| JLP | sijmen: #20 is SQLite persistence module for tpserver-cpp | 16:53 |
| sijmen | another? | 16:54 |
| JLP | Porthos_: didn't check the code out, but you can ask and i'll see if i can help | 16:54 |
| JLP | sijmen: yup there are 2 | 16:54 |
| sijmen | okay. | 16:54 |
| Porthos_ | Me and nash where talking about implementing a lua scripting engine to drive races in games | 16:55 |
| sijmen | It seems like there is plenty of choice now when the slots need to be filled | 16:55 |
| JLP | sijmen: yeah plnty of chocie :) | 16:55 |
| Porthos_ | But now that I've slept on it I'm wondering if it'll have any big advantage over loading them as files | 16:56 |
| sijmen | Just a little thing I was wondering: isn't it better to just create one game, one codebase, one client, one server, instead of writing a do-it all framework? Why did the founders choce to do it like this? | 16:56 |
| sijmen | *chose | 16:57 |
| JLP | sijmen: hm have no idea why, probably they didn't want to limit anyone and maybe this separation is a good thing for modules | 16:58 |
| JLP | sijmen: you'll have to ask mithro | 16:59 |
| sijmen | yeah | 16:59 |
| sijmen | It's just that I feel that with gaming, you create the game, and then go on and create another game. While with applications, you create it, and make new versions and support it | 17:00 |
| sijmen | But with games.. once they're done.. people have seen it and get tired of it eventually, so it's better to just start with a new game | 17:00 |
| sijmen | So if I were to make a space-TBS, I'd great this minisec game, get it out on the web, and move on and make a new game - based on the Minisec game maybe, but not extending it | 17:01 |
| sijmen | but that's probably just a matter of preference, and I'm not really opposed to doing it the way it's done here. | 17:01 |
| sijmen | huh it's funny how I sometimes would have sworn to have typed 'create' but instead I typed 'grate'.. not even close on the keyboard. | 17:02 |
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| JLP | that's why we need some more complex and interestng rulesets, each different and brings another mode to the game | 17:03 |
| sijmen | Can a TP ruleset approach the complexity of say, a Civ game? | 17:04 |
| JLP | and yu still find a lot of stars player sthat are still playing the same game which is quite old now, but still very fun to play | 17:04 |
| sijmen | tbh, I never played that game | 17:05 |
| sijmen | I did play one game though, for hours and hours (cumulative :P) with firends. It came with KDE. You had a few planets, and could send an amount of ships to another planet. If you won, you got it | 17:05 |
| sijmen | that's all there was to it. | 17:05 |
| cherez | sijmen: you could implement most any game, but the protocol might make some parts of communication hackish | 17:06 |
| JLP | i think that people get m+more bored quickly with games like FPSs, play it and forget about it, but in 4x games it is more interesting when you replay it | 17:06 |
| sijmen | yes that's true. | 17:06 |
| JLP | Konquest | 17:06 |
| sijmen | yeah :D | 17:06 |
| sijmen | I loved that game. It's probably a clone of another game though, but that doesn't matter | 17:06 |
| JLP | yeah it is like very very simplified Stars! | 17:07 |
| sijmen | JLP, that one setence you just said ('i think that peopel get m+more.. ') made me want to play a TBS for the rest of the day | 17:07 |
| sijmen | wel.. after Windows Update finishes, that is :( | 17:08 |
| Epyon | JLP: pong :) | 17:08 |
| JLP | Epyon: i think i just wanted to ask you before if you have seen the comments for you application | 17:09 |
| JLP | Epyon: the Elite ruleset one | 17:10 |
| Epyon | I did, but I have very little time now to properly answer, and especialy nash's question needs some thinking to be done :/ | 17:10 |
| * sijmen is away to eat | 17:10 | |
| JLP | Epyon: ok, cool, just checking | 17:10 |
| JLP | oak_: so any ideas about what you would write application for? | 17:13 |
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| oak_ | well i would have to download and explore the system first | 17:27 |
| JLP | oak_: ok, great | 17:28 |
| oak_ | and im thinking if its even worth... i dont have to find out anything afterall | 17:28 |
| Porthos_ | I'm wondering, what needs to be included in the race designer in terms of objects that the game needs | 17:35 |
| oak_ | but there r no servers running | 17:36 |
| Porthos_ | oak: you can download the server and run it locally to test it out | 17:37 |
| oak_ | great | 17:38 |
| Porthos_ | Or is that entirely up to the designer? | 17:39 |
| JLP | Porthos_: i think it is some propeties like what environment parameters it thrives in, wher | 17:41 |
| JLP | e it is the strongest (research, diplomacy, economy, ...) | 17:41 |
| JLP | things like this, but i'm not sure what exactly is needed, this is probably laso the part of application, to discuss what exactly is needed or would be needed | 17:42 |
| Porthos_ | Ok, I was thinking more along the lines of ships, weapons, buildings, and tech trees | 17:42 |
| JLP | Porthos_: that would probably then be a components/ship design designer | 17:44 |
| Porthos_ | JLP: I see, good thing I asked | 17:52 |
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| Porthos_ | Alright, I'm heading home I'll be back soon | 18:06 |
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| WilliamCarringtn | mithro: The other day you mentioned using twisted in the python server and putting a web configuration on it. Which parts of the python server should I look at to do that? | 18:26 |
| oak_ | JLP: what username and password should i use while connecting to local server? | 18:26 |
| JLP | oak_: i think that the default guest accout should work, but you can always create a new account by using a New button in Python client | 18:27 |
| JLP | WilliamCarringtn: mithro is currently asleep (5 am there), maybe you could try to get him later, or maybe you could try posting the question on forums or mailing lists | 18:28 |
| WilliamCarringtn | thanks | 18:29 |
| oak_ | default is not working but my own does :) | 18:30 |
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| fizzleboink | hello hello | 18:44 |
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| JLP | fizzleboink: ahoy | 18:45 |
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| JLP | miChou: welcome back | 19:03 |
| DystopicFr1 | JLP: just wanted to offer thanks for your comments on my app...so...er...thanks >.< | 19:05 |
| JLP | DystopicFr1: no problem, it is in interest of all of us to have applications of high quality, maybe google will decide even based on that if they would take thousand parsec as mentoring organisation next year | 19:07 |
| miChou | hello :) | 19:09 |
| DystopicFr1 | aye, from what I've seen in the channel, though, it looks like there's plenty of good folks interested in contributing to TP, and many who've spent a lot of time polishing their apps...very good stuffs | 19:11 |
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| fizzleboink | JLP: is your first name Jure? | 19:15 |
| JLP | fizzleboink: yup | 19:15 |
| fizzleboink | k :) | 19:16 |
| fizzleboink | JLP: I have updated my application | 19:23 |
| JLP | fizzleboink: cool, now wait for comments from other mentors :) | 19:24 |
| fizzleboink | JLP: will do, I'll try and come up with another one as well | 19:25 |
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| Iwanowitch | Heya all | 19:37 |
| JLP | Iwanowitch: welcome back | 19:37 |
| fizzleboink | Iwanowitch: hey | 19:41 |
| Iwanowitch | JLP: lots of new applications during the past day? | 19:42 |
| JLP | Iwanowitch: we are up to 20 now | 19:42 |
| Iwanowitch | Nice. | 19:42 |
| fizzleboink | wow | 19:44 |
| WilliamCarringtn | You're about to have 21 | 19:49 |
| JLP | just keep 'em commin' | 19:50 |
| Iwanowitch | Make it at least 22, then :) | 19:50 |
| miChou | a little later you might even get to 23 :P | 19:54 |
| Iwanowitch | I could think of a couple more projects I could do for TP, but I think I'm going to spread out to some other projects, they deserve love too :P | 19:55 |
| fizzleboink | I'd place my money on at least 24 :P | 19:56 |
| JLP | who gets closer to the real number gets a free spot :) | 19:56 |
| Iwanowitch | I said we'd have more than 25 yesterday, but that seems like a low estimate now... I'm betting on 37. | 19:59 |
| cherez | betting on how many applications TP is getting? | 20:35 |
| WilliamCarringtn | I pick 42 | 20:35 |
| cherez | 34 | 20:36 |
| Iwanowitch | 42 is too obvious. | 20:39 |
| miChou | :)) | 20:39 |
| cherez | what if it's midway between 2 guesses? | 20:39 |
| Iwanowitch | Like, 38,5 applications? | 20:40 |
| cherez | I was going to guess 35, but then which of us gets it if it's 36? | 20:40 |
| Iwanowitch | Meh, I'll guess 37.1 applications then. | 20:42 |
| Iwanowitch | That would give 36 for you :P | 20:42 |
| Iwanowitch | If there are two people going for 37 and 38 now, I'm going to be mad. | 20:43 |
| sijmen | WilliamCarringtn, what are you making? | 20:50 |
| sijmen | *what was your proposal, if I may ask | 20:50 |
| WilliamCarringtn | I just put in a proposal for Diplomacy, but I'll probably do another one on the python server | 20:51 |
| sijmen | New rulesets rock | 20:53 |
| WilliamCarringtn | That's what I heard | 20:54 |
| WilliamCarringtn | http://wccarrington.googlepages.com/diplomacyinspace | 20:54 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/Kz4> (at wccarrington.googlepages.com) | 20:54 |
| WilliamCarringtn | that's handy | 20:55 |
| cherez | yep | 20:55 |
| sijmen | "Hi from Europe: Wii have the PS3 now." | 21:00 |
| WilliamCarringtn | Sans PS2 support (or did they put that back in?) | 21:02 |
| sijmen | they took the emotion engine out | 21:02 |
| sijmen | Most of the FF games don't work | 21:02 |
| WilliamCarringtn | That's hilarious | 21:02 |
| sijmen | they will be 'fixing' that with updates | 21:02 |
| WilliamCarringtn | for a price, I assume | 21:02 |
| sijmen | Also, they're only having a few PS3.. and I don't think that's because they didn't have enough production capacity | 21:03 |
| sijmen | But even with 50,000 units for Europe they are not sold out. | 21:03 |
| WilliamCarringtn | wow | 21:04 |
| sijmen | or the Benelux.. now I'm confused.. not sure | 21:05 |
| WilliamCarringtn | Sony lost | 21:06 |
| sijmen | I'm not sure. | 21:06 |
| WilliamCarringtn | that's the only thing that matters | 21:06 |
| WilliamCarringtn | why not? | 21:06 |
| sijmen | The PS2 was in short supply and expensive, too, at launch | 21:07 |
| WilliamCarringtn | yeah, but it was unopposed | 21:07 |
| sijmen | true | 21:07 |
| sijmen | Anyhow I'm not laying down cash on any console | 21:07 |
| sijmen | and if I will somehow.. it'll either be a Wii for the gaming or an XBox 360 for XNA | 21:08 |
| WilliamCarringtn | My friend has a Wii, and that's really fun | 21:08 |
| sijmen | we're getting XNA kits at school :) | 21:08 |
| WilliamCarringtn | ah | 21:08 |
| sijmen | Yeah some of my friends have a Wii, too, but to be honest I already have the feeling I've seen it all. And I didn't even buy it yet | 21:08 |
| sijmen | but I really like Virtual Console | 21:08 |
| Iwanowitch | So, are you going to port TP to the XBox? :P | 21:08 |
| sijmen | Not a bad idea. | 21:09 |
| sijmen | but we're getting those kits at school next semester, by that time I'll be doing my minor (Game Design) and not the Game Technology major I'm doing now | 21:09 |
| fizzleboink | JLP: have you received applications for all 3 proposed rulesets? | 21:26 |
| JLP | fizzleboink: yup, and one exra | 21:28 |
| Iwanowitch | Any of your proposed projects that doesn't have an application yet? | 21:30 |
| Iwanowitch | (No need to fully check for me - just tell me if something catches your eye) | 21:30 |
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| Iwanowitch | And... click. | 21:36 |
| Iwanowitch | JLP: that was my third application coming your way. | 21:37 |
| JLP | Add testing to libtpproto-py is free | 21:37 |
| JLP | Improve wxWidget's pyAUI is free | 21:37 |
| JLP | Write a protocol compliance test suite is free | 21:37 |
| JLP | Design and Implement a Research Framework is free | 21:38 |
| JLP | that's it | 21:38 |
| Iwanowitch | The research framework is free? Surprises me... No-one who needs it for their rulesets, anyway? | 21:40 |
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| miChou | so is the tserver-cpp persistence engine "taken"? | 21:48 |
| JLP | miChou: ah missed that, postgresql is free | 21:51 |
| miChou | :D | 21:51 |
| miChou | not for long :) | 21:51 |
| JLP | hehe | 21:51 |
| Iwanowitch | miChou: I took the SQLite one, by the way :P | 21:52 |
| Iwanowitch | They competition is always fine. | 21:52 |
| Iwanowitch | *Though | 21:52 |
| miChou | it's always good to know people with similar interests :P | 21:52 |
| miChou | any other good reference for better understanding the code and what should be done beside http://www.thousandparsec.net/tp/dev/documents/tpserver-cpp/ ? :D | 21:55 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/L00> (at www.thousandparsec.net) | 21:55 |
| Iwanowitch | miChou: The code might prove the most insights, I think. | 21:59 |
| Iwanowitch | /modules/persistence/mysql/* and /tpserver/persistence.cpp in tpserver-cpp in particular | 22:00 |
| miChou | yes, but i'm trying to figure how this ties to all the rest of the server | 22:01 |
| * miChou starts diggind in the sources | 22:02 | |
| Iwanowitch | Take a look in /tpserver/game.cpp (IIRC), and see the usage of the persistance class. | 22:02 |
| Iwanowitch | Or' fgrep Persistence *' or something :P | 22:02 |
| miChou | :) | 22:03 |
| miChou | atm the persistence class is only a dummy-class? | 22:07 |
| Iwanowitch | A base class, to be extended by others. | 22:09 |
| Iwanowitch | (is 'base' the right word? I think not) | 22:09 |
| Iwanowitch | For example, mysqlpersistence inherits from persistence. | 22:09 |
| Iwanowitch | It is indeed more of an interface than of an implementation, I believe. | 22:10 |
| miChou | that's my feeling too :D | 22:11 |
| miChou | and this persistence API should then be implemented in the save() method of Game, right? | 22:12 |
| miChou | because all it does right now is log the fact that it saved the game (which i doubt it does :D ) | 22:12 |
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| * nash waves | 22:14 | |
| * Iwanowitch waves back | 22:14 | |
| Iwanowitch | miChou: Well, I'm not entirely sure the saves method is the important thing here.. let me do some more digging :) | 22:15 |
| miChou | in order for the persistence module to be useful, the save() method *should* be the important thing | 22:17 |
| DystopicFro | Iwanowitch: from what I've seen the big usage of the Persistence interface comes from ObjectManager since persistence is either in memory or in a database from my understanding | 22:17 |
| miChou | I mean, why have a persistence module if you're not using it? | 22:17 |
| miChou | ow! | 22:17 |
| * nash wonders if a persistence module that doesn't require you to save all the time may be even more useful... ie Orthogonal Persistence | 22:18 | |
| Iwanowitch | DystopicFro: indeed... objectmanager.cpp is full of calls to retrieveObject() and saveObject() | 22:19 |
| miChou | orthogonal persistence? | 22:19 |
| Iwanowitch | Yeah, I'm also wondering... | 22:19 |
| Iwanowitch | According to THE resource on the internet (guess): Orthogonal persistence refers to inherent support provided by a programming language or operating system of a computer that enables the state of programs written in a persistent programming language, or of the operating system itself, to remain persistent even after a crash or unexpected shutdown. | 22:22 |
| miChou | something like decoupling the actual saving to the DB from the calls to save() ? | 22:23 |
| Iwanowitch | I guess that is basically what you implement when you build an objectmanager, no? | 22:23 |
| miChou | i dunno | 22:24 |
| DystopicFro | nash: what exactly do you mean by that? from what I've seen calls to save don't do anything (as Iwanowitch said), and the functions in the persistence interface, for the database at least, appear to insert rows in the database for persistence...? | 22:38 |
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| nash | Well if the state is saved automatically in the persistence system it makes the interface a lot simpler | 23:08 |
| nash | Just a thought | 23:08 |
| nash | Anyway - I am off for a while... | 23:14 |
| DystopicFro | adios | 23:14 |
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