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| mithro | wtf, we have 6 hits from AmigaOS and 45 from OS/2 to our website! | 00:12 |
|---|---|---|
| JLP | mithro: hehe, i did mention OS/2 in my blog entry about TP and 4X games | 00:14 |
| mithro | you did? | 00:14 |
| JLP | yeah, dlactic civilizations was first made for os/2 | 00:14 |
| mithro | ahh | 00:14 |
| mithro | JLP: btw feel free to add simple todo items to the todo tracker http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=132078&atid=829724 | 00:14 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/I$$> (at sourceforge.net) | 00:14 |
| mithro | i wonder what browser they where running | 00:15 |
| JLP | it's very unusuall story how i found out about galactic civilizations | 00:16 |
| JLP | as kid i was watching Teletext on TV and GalCiv was the top most popular game for quite some time | 00:16 |
| JLP | beating all dos games at that time | 00:17 |
| JLP | and since we were using OS/2 at home I just had to get it | 00:17 |
| JLP | and that's how I became hooked on 4X | 00:17 |
| JLP | i know that os/2 has a port of Firefox | 00:18 |
| JLP | maybe amiga also has it | 00:18 |
| JLP | http://www.mozilla.org/ports/os2/ | 00:20 |
| tpb | Title: Warpzilla (at www.mozilla.org) | 00:20 |
| JLP | mithro: oh yeah, what's the progress with videos from LCA2007? | 00:26 |
| mithro | working on them this very second | 00:30 |
| mithro | trying to figure out what format to encode them in | 00:30 |
| mithro | currently | 00:30 |
| mithro | Stream #0.0: Video: dvvideo, yuv420p, 720x576, 25.00 fps, 25000 kb/s | 00:30 |
| mithro | Stream #0.1: Audio: pcm_s16le, 48000 Hz, stereo, 1536 kb/s | 00:30 |
| JLP | leave it at that :) | 00:32 |
| mithro | bah, that's 13gig an hour! | 00:33 |
| JLP | hehe, i was just calculating this :) | 00:34 |
| JLP | xvid or theora maybe | 00:36 |
| mithro | yes | 00:37 |
| nash | mithro: :-P | 01:56 |
| mithro | going to lunch | 01:58 |
| mithro | bblr | 01:58 |
| nash | :-) | 01:58 |
| nash | Likely story | 01:58 |
| mithro | back | 02:37 |
| mithro | JLP / nash: ping? | 03:13 |
| nash | I'm back from lunch | 03:19 |
| nash | mithro: ? | 03:28 |
| tpb | It has been said that mithro: is this ok, nash | 03:28 |
| mithro | i was going to ask you to test some video | 03:28 |
| nash | Okay | 03:37 |
| nash | Which video? | 03:37 |
| nash | mithro: which vid? Sorry my machine is lagging at the moment - getting backed up | 03:40 |
| mithro | i've found out that it is out of sync | 03:42 |
| mithro | so currently reencoding it | 03:42 |
| nash | okay | 03:42 |
| nash | BTW: Why is there no Message #7 in protocol 3? | 03:45 |
| mithro | nash: hrm... I wonder why :P | 03:46 |
| mithro | hrm.. it looks like there is | 03:47 |
| mithro | 7Object | 03:48 |
| mithro | I'm assuming you mean object type? | 03:48 |
| mithro | s/object type/frame type/ | 03:48 |
| nash | frame type... | 03:49 |
| nash | Yeah | 03:49 |
| nash | Sorry - I mean no frame type 6 | 03:50 |
| mithro | because the type 6 from tp02 has been replaced | 03:51 |
| nash | Right | 03:51 |
| nash | Seems a bit weird ;-) | 03:51 |
| nash | Is there any guarantee with later protocol versions and hte current one? | 03:52 |
| mithro | nash: we are trying to keep it backwards compatible | 03:52 |
| mithro | however, on that note tp04 will totally change how objects work (to a system similar to orders) | 03:53 |
| nash | Right | 03:53 |
| nash | Any ideas when tp04 will reach the light of days? | 03:53 |
| mithro | however not to worry, tp04 is about 6 months off | 03:54 |
| nash | Right | 03:54 |
| mithro | and it will be about 80% backwards compatible (only think which prevents it being 100% backwards compatible is the object+version spec change) | 03:54 |
| nash | is there anything new to be expected in the immediate future? | 03:55 |
| mithro | define new? | 03:55 |
| nash | New releases, new features, new documents, new designs... | 03:55 |
| nash | Anything that will say make a news entry on the website? | 03:55 |
| mithro | there will be things which make the news entry, but tp03 can be considered stable | 03:57 |
| mithro | - development version of tpclient-pywx become the new stable version | 03:57 |
| mithro | - screencasts instead of screenshots of a bunch of things | 03:57 |
| mithro | - competition winners :P | 03:58 |
| mithro | other possibilities | 03:58 |
| mithro | - planet.thousandparsec.net | 03:58 |
| mithro | - better metaserver intergration/support | 03:58 |
| nash | Cool | 03:59 |
| nash | Sounds good | 03:59 |
| mithro | there will be a new stable tpclient-pywx release within the next week or two | 04:00 |
| mithro | tp04 is the last real stepping stone before we can have properly complex games | 04:01 |
| mithro | it will add support for research and dynamic object types | 04:01 |
| nash | Research - all good | 04:02 |
| nash | What is "dynamic object types?" | 04:02 |
| mithro | Currently we have a static object type document, http://localhost/tp/dev/documents/objects.php | 04:03 |
| mithro | dynamic object types will allow the server to define new object types on the fly (like how orders are done) | 04:04 |
| nash | Can you give me a non-localhost relative link? | 04:04 |
| mithro | s/localhost/www.thousandparsec.net/ | 04:05 |
| nash | And I have another hard question: Why "Thousand Parsec", rather then say... "Thousand Parsecs"? | 04:05 |
| mithro | because it sounded better to me :P | 04:05 |
| nash | Right - so what does "dynamic object types" mean in this context? | 04:05 |
| mithro | and I couldn't find a correct consense on pluralising Parsec | 04:05 |
| nash | An 's'? | 04:06 |
| mithro | A Thousand Parsec? | 04:07 |
| mithro | the distance is thousand parsecs? | 04:07 |
| mithro | a went on a journy of a thousand parsecs? | 04:08 |
| mithro | plus I such as English :P | 04:09 |
| mithro | s/such/suck | 04:09 |
| mithro | so yeah... | 04:10 |
| mithro | o btw i'm very lagged atm | 04:11 |
| mithro | nash: btw can you log into demo1 atm? | 04:12 |
| nash | Thats's cool | 04:12 |
| nash | It should be, to the best of my knowledge a thousand parsecs. However you can say it a thousand parsec journey | 04:13 |
| mithro | i'm going to do a screencast of "your first time using tpclient-pywx" sometime soon too | 04:13 |
| nash | And I don't have a client to test if I can connect currently | 04:13 |
| nash | Thats cool | 04:13 |
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| nash | mithro: Do the servers handle many outstanding requests at once? Basically I just want to dump a whole series of requets down the line and deal with the results later. | 04:31 |
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| mithro | [15:03] <nash> mithro: Do the servers handle many outstanding requests at once? Basically I just want to dump a whole series of requets down the line and deal with the results later. | 04:39 |
| mithro | [15:03] <mithro> sure! | 04:39 |
| mithro | [15:03] <mithro> libtpclient-py pipelines the get x requests | 04:39 |
| mithro | [15:04] <mithro> the sequence number is specifically designed to allow easy pipelining too (although not strictly needed) | 04:39 |
| mithro | [15:09] * Disconnected (Connection timed out). | 04:39 |
| nash | Cool | 04:39 |
| * nash is trying to figure how the sequence stuff works | 04:40 | |
| mithro | really simple | 04:43 |
| nash | Okay - just working all the stuff to ask the server as soon as you log in... | 04:43 |
| nash | How do you get all the players? | 04:43 |
| mithro | client sends a sequence number in a request, all responses to that request returned from the server have the same sequence number | 04:43 |
| nash | Ahh... that sequence number. | 04:44 |
| nash | So how do you know how many are coming? | 04:44 |
| mithro | IE Send "Connect sequence=89", you'll either get back a "Fail sequence=89" or "Okay sequence=89" | 04:44 |
| mithro | if a server is going to return multiple frames in response to something it will first return a sequence frame with the number of things to come | 04:45 |
| nash | That was the piece of info I was after | 04:45 |
| mithro | IE "get object by ids [8, 9]" -> Sequence amount=2, Object 8, Object 9 | 04:45 |
| nash | Cool | 04:47 |
| mithro | btw, the server can also send frames that havn't been requested, they always have a sequence number of zero - only used for EOT notification currently | 04:47 |
| nash | I handle that allready. In fact I don't bother handling lots of stuff if I don't really care about the sequence number | 04:48 |
| mithro | hrm? | 04:48 |
| nash | How do you get details on all the other players? Or even discover how many other players there are | 04:48 |
| mithro | http://www.thousandparsec.net/tp/dev/documents/protocol3.php#GetPlayerData_Desc | 04:49 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/I$W> (at www.thousandparsec.net) | 04:49 |
| mithro | not a lot of useful information about a player in that response however | 04:49 |
| nash | Right - but how I do know which are valid player IDs? | 04:50 |
| mithro | that will be fixed in tp04, however as there is no Fog of War currently you can "see" everyone else | 04:50 |
| nash | BUt how do I do that? Do i just guess IDs? | 04:51 |
| mithro | what do you mean? When you download the objects planets/ships will have valid player ID's | 04:52 |
| mithro | and as you can currently see all planets/ships in the universe you therefore know which players must exist | 04:53 |
| mithro | (or atleast all players you care about - if a player doesn't have atleast one planet/ship they can't interact with the game) | 04:53 |
| nash | Right - so there is no direct way - instead you just see what you can see | 04:54 |
| mithro | yes, there will be a get player ids (ie to be consistent with everything else) however ultimately I think most servers will only tell you about other players you can actually see | 04:56 |
| mithro | s/there will be/there will be in tp04/ | 04:56 |
| nash | Cool | 04:58 |
| mithro | btw if you find any "warts" in tp03 please post them to the list | 04:59 |
| nash | Aside from the one I jsut mentioned? | 05:02 |
| mithro | yes | 05:03 |
| mithro | although you could post that one too :P | 05:03 |
| nash | Is it already ion the tp04 draft? | 05:08 |
| nash | BTW: is the tp04 draft available anywhere? | 05:09 |
| mithro | no, it hasn't been turned into a draft paper yet | 05:20 |
| mithro | just the discussion on the mailing list | 05:20 |
| mithro | should see a draft paper in the next couple of weeks | 05:23 |
| mithro | well off to the gym | 05:32 |
| mithro | got to take off that 5kg i put on over LCA :/ | 05:33 |
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| CIA-11 | tp: Lee Begg <[email protected]> * tpserver-cpp/ (sample.conf tpserver/game.cpp tpserver/game.cpp): | 07:53 |
| CIA-11 | tp: Setting for setting the turn length: | 07:53 |
| CIA-11 | tp: Sets the turn length after the game has loaded, overriding the game | 07:53 |
| CIA-11 | tp: and the console, but can be changed after that. Useful for AI Comp. | 07:53 |
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| nash | mithro: You around? | 08:55 |
| nash | any dev eopla around? | 09:00 |
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| llnz | hi nash | 09:15 |
| nash | So... | 09:15 |
| nash | I've managed to find a few ways to crash the server... | 09:16 |
| nash | First by sending a few malformed messages | 09:16 |
| nash | Basically send a TPE_MSG_GET_BOARDS without any data, and boom it seg faults | 09:16 |
| llnz | there are a lot of ways to crash the server | 09:17 |
| nash | Surely checking for non-zero data length would be a good start... | 09:17 |
| llnz | is that get board or get board ids? | 09:18 |
| nash | Anyway so what I'm trying to do is discover a list of all boards, and a list of all resources in the current game | 09:18 |
| nash | Get Board is the name in the description | 09:18 |
| llnz | can i enquire as to why you don't want to use libtpproto-cpp? | 09:18 |
| nash | msg 16. | 09:19 |
| nash | Lots of half-arsed reasons... | 09:19 |
| nash | ;-) | 09:19 |
| nash | I'm doing my stuff in C and i hae writing C++->C wrappers for starters | 09:19 |
| * llnz notes demo1 has crashed, updating build and restarting it now | 09:21 | |
| nash | Wasn't me... I'm using a local server | 09:23 |
| llnz | i know | 09:23 |
| nash | So I should call GET BOARD IDS, and use the sequence frame to continue the list? | 09:24 |
| nash | Is there any boards or resources by default in minisec? | 09:25 |
| llnz | there is a board for the player, so only one, and there is one resource | 09:26 |
| nash | Cool | 09:27 |
| nash | With the sequence key stuff - is that only one sequence key per client, or per data type? | 09:27 |
| llnz | per data type | 09:28 |
| nash | cool | 09:28 |
| llnz | tpserver-cpp is normaly fairly slack about sequence keys, but remember to pass -1 the first time | 09:28 |
| nash | Yep - and I'm thinking I may request '0' items first go, so I can find out the total number of objects... | 09:29 |
| llnz | if you want, you might get an error though | 09:30 |
| * llnz should check | 09:30 | |
| llnz | demo1 running again | 09:32 |
| CIA-11 | tp: Lee Begg <[email protected]> * tpserver-cpp/tpserver/ (player.cpp player.cpp): | 09:37 |
| CIA-11 | tp: Protect GetBoards from undersized frames: | 09:37 |
| CIA-11 | tp: Just a little fix, to prevent a segfault | 09:37 |
| nash | You may want to look at GetResourceDescription too ;-) | 09:38 |
| llnz | yeap | 09:39 |
| llnz | i suspect there is a few to do actually | 09:39 |
| nash | You probably want to do a lot for the AI comp... | 09:39 |
| llnz | that's fine, i don't mind | 09:40 |
| nash | I'd be dissappointed if I was the only one who didn't screw round with weird frame types ;-) | 09:40 |
| llnz | it would need to be done eventually anyway | 09:40 |
| nash | Obviously... (else.. I'm losing - time to crash the server...) | 09:40 |
| llnz | hehe, you will just get lots of fail frames with "frame error" error codes saying "Invalid frame" | 09:41 |
| nash | Thats fine... | 09:41 |
| * llnz decides to go systematic | 09:41 | |
| nash | Good plan | 09:42 |
| llnz | looks like most have protection | 09:47 |
| nash | I did well then ;-) | 09:51 |
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| JLP | hello all | 09:59 |
| llnz | i think we will penalise any client deliberately crashing the server | 09:59 |
| llnz | hi JLP | 09:59 |
| nash | I'll obfuse that code then... ;-) | 10:00 |
| llnz | and you would lose points for it | 10:02 |
| nash | I'll just have to make them up elsewhere... say by winning more games by cheating | 10:03 |
| nash | Anyway I need to bail. Thanks for your help llnz. | 10:10 |
| llnz | no problem, i'm normally round in the evenings (as the time is here) | 10:10 |
| CIA-11 | tp: Lee Begg <[email protected]> * tpserver-cpp/tpserver/ (25 files): | 10:11 |
| CIA-11 | tp: Undersize frame protection for almost everything: | 10:11 |
| CIA-11 | tp: Worked through all the frame reading, some did already, but fixed the others. | 10:11 |
| CIA-11 | tp: Lee Begg <[email protected]> * tpserver-cpp/ (24 files in 7 dirs): | 12:24 |
| CIA-11 | tp: Improved configure and build system: | 12:24 |
| CIA-11 | tp: Only links against the libraries each module needs. | 12:24 |
| CIA-11 | tp: Pkg-config test for libgnutls, instead of AC_PATH_LIBGNUTLS. | 12:24 |
| CIA-11 | tp: Slightly better mzscheme handling, but still not great | 12:24 |
| CIA-11 | tp: Lee Begg <[email protected]> * tpserver-cpp/ (24 files): | 12:26 |
| CIA-11 | tp: Removed unneeded acinclude.m4 file: | 12:26 |
| CIA-11 | tp: Because pkg-config is so much better, the acinclude.m4 file | 12:26 |
| CIA-11 | tp: is not needed for the autoconf test for libgnutls | 12:26 |
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| mithro | [00:02] <mithro> hey llnz | 13:34 |
| mithro | [00:03] <mithro> any idea why the epydoc's are broken? | 13:34 |
| mithro | i guess i'll look at it tommorrow | 13:35 |
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