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| whitequark | so i finally gave up on the conda crap and tried to build the quicklogic toolchain from source | 05:09 |
|---|---|---|
| whitequark | naturally that doesn't work either | 05:10 |
| whitequark | ah hm, it's picking up the wrong yosys | 05:10 |
| HackerFoo | whitequark: Any interest in using Nix instead of Conda? | 05:32 |
| whitequark | HackerFoo: i tried nix a while ago, i like it in theory (unlike conda) but i didn't have such a great experience either | 05:35 |
| whitequark | what i would actually appreciate is the quicklogic toolchain as a ... tarball | 05:36 |
| whitequark | you know the same thing vivado is doing | 05:36 |
| whitequark | that would be actually great | 05:36 |
| whitequark | oh yeah the source code instrctions for vpr are just completely broken | 05:37 |
| whitequark | $ git clone https://github.com/SymbiFlow/vtr-verilog-to-routing -b blackbox_timing | 05:37 |
| tpb | Title: GitHub - SymbiFlow/vtr-verilog-to-routing: SymbiFlow WIP changes for Verilog to Routing -- Open Source CAD Flow for FPGA Research (at github.com) | 05:37 |
| whitequark | Cloning into 'vtr-verilog-to-routing'... | 05:37 |
| whitequark | fatal: Remote branch blackbox_timing not found in upstream origin | 05:37 |
| HackerFoo | I hate tarballs that dump garbage all over the place. "Uninstall? Ha, why would you want to do that?" | 05:38 |
| whitequark | HackerFoo: just a self contained one you can unpack into /opt | 05:38 |
| whitequark | the current experience is /significantly worse than proprietary tools/ | 05:39 |
| HackerFoo | If you're interested, you can try: https://github.com/HackerFoo/nix-symbiflow | 05:39 |
| tpb | Title: GitHub - HackerFoo/nix-symbiflow: Nix packages for SymbiFlow projects and dependencies (at github.com) | 05:39 |
| whitequark | no i don't want to learn nix | 05:39 |
| whitequark | i just want a fucking toolchain that works | 05:40 |
| whitequark | is it that hard? | 05:40 |
| HackerFoo | I started on a quicklogic branch, but didn't have time to finish it. | 05:40 |
| HackerFoo | There's a lot of moving parts right now. | 05:41 |
| HackerFoo | Ideally, there would be compatible packages of Yosys, VTR, etc. in whatever distro you prefer, like GCC, binutils, etc. | 05:42 |
| HackerFoo | But there are some patches required to get things working for now. | 05:43 |
| whitequark | I don't really care about patches | 05:44 |
| whitequark | I'm saying that both the binary and the source distributions are completely unusable right now, the former for me, the latter for everyone | 05:44 |
| HackerFoo | I struggled with it as well. That's why I wrote the Nix stuff. | 05:49 |
| HackerFoo | But things will get better as things get upstreamed. | 05:50 |
| whitequark | why is it necessary to wait for upstreaming to have working instructions to build from source? | 05:51 |
| HackerFoo | It's not. It just makes the instructions shorter. | 05:52 |
| HackerFoo | Or, change less often. | 05:52 |
| HackerFoo | Because it doesn't help if the instructions are always out of date. | 05:53 |
| whitequark | why not... have CI check installation instructions? | 05:54 |
| HackerFoo | For which distro? Which version? | 05:57 |
| HackerFoo | This is exactly what Nix solves. | 05:57 |
| whitequark | you know what would also solve my problem? not bothering with this toolchain at all | 05:58 |
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| HackerFoo | Being an early adopter is never easy. | 06:02 |
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| sf-slack | <pgielda> @whitequark, sorry for that we are changing multiple things at the same time so there is a lot of moving parts. In any case somebody will soon paste a tutorial on how to compile stuff from scratch using a clean debian. | 12:16 |
| sf-slack | <pgielda> Ranting on conda does not help btw. Its a packaging choice made long time ago. Its maybe annoying but works and while personally I am *personally* not a fan (I use gentoo I like ebuilds and sources only... i also dislike pip) it does not mean it does not work. In fact contrary -- there is a CI in symbiflow-examples repo that does a clean conda installation on travis and test the tutorial. | 12:20 |
| sf-slack | <pgielda> Obviously the tutorial needs updating because its outdated... but again the whole project is a lot of people doing a lot of things so not always everything is easy and works. In any case if there is a particular issue lets disccuss it on github in the relevant issue | 12:22 |
| sf-slack | <pgielda> Oh and in different timezones so I usually miss the most interesting discussions and rants ;) | 12:22 |
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| HackerFoo | Conda works on a clean install (as tested in CI) but usually fails for updates, which is annoying given that rebuilding arch-defs can take several hours. | 16:05 |
| HackerFoo | Then, if you change anything locally (e.g. working on a local copy of VTR) you have to manually keep things synchronized. | 16:06 |
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| HackerFoo | A tarball is fine for users, but this is open source, so we need more developers if things are going to get better. | 16:14 |
| hzeller | How many dependencies are there that can't be simply installed with a debian package ? | 16:19 |
| HackerFoo | hzeller: It could all be bundled into one giant package, requiring a ~20GB install every month or so to get the latest improvements. | 17:01 |
| djph | Not 100% sure if this is ontopic for the channel -- found some links as I was hunting for linux fpga programmers ... there any "gotchas" I might've missed with the project in general? (everything seems to have compiled, I think, but the devboard won't arrive til monday at the earliest) | 17:32 |
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| mithro | @djph Are you talking about for using the QuickFeather board or? | 22:57 |
| djph | mithro: no, the ice40 one | 23:17 |
| mithro | djph: I know of about 5-10 iCE40 based boards, I'm guessing either the Fomu or the icebreaker? | 23:19 |
| djph | uhh, | 23:19 |
| djph | icestick | 23:20 |
| mithro | djph: What do you want to use it for? | 23:22 |
| djph | no idea ... first _actually_ reasonable priced board i saw. bit of a rabbit hole :) kinda more was looking at smaller / older things, but "on linux" is apparently not high on many lists. | 23:24 |
| hzeller | I still have an Icestick in my gadget drawer somewhere. I think my first experiments with Yosys+Arachne a few years back were with this one. | 23:27 |
| mithro | djph: I have a particular bias towards the Fomu because I wrote a lot of the workshop @ workshop.fomu.im | 23:32 |
| hzeller | And that workshop is amazing - you install stuff on your fomu, and then connect via a usb serial to it and have a Python repl running on the processor implemented on the FPGA ... instant amaze and gratification :) | 23:35 |
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| djph | neat | 23:51 |
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