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| dberkholz | hopefully someone's pointed out by now that the orgs list is broken, and the proposal ratings column disappeared | 02:47 |
|---|---|---|
| dberkholz | if not, i wanted to make sure it was brought up here | 02:48 |
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| robbyoconnor | +1 towhat dberkholz said | 03:13 |
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| Upthorn | Hello. I am a returning student hoping to apply again, but I am having a great deal of difficulty navigating the new melange interface | 03:54 |
| Upthorn | I want to provide links to my previous SoC projects in my application at the organization's wiki | 03:54 |
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| Upthorn | Is there anybody here who can help me access my student profile from previous years? | 04:20 |
| encod3d | wtf does melange mean? | 04:20 |
| Upthorn | I asked in #gsoc and was directed here | 04:21 |
| Triskelios | encod3d: find a dictionary | 04:23 |
| encod3d | Melange (; alternately "the spice") is the name of the fictional drug central to the Dune series of science fiction novels by Frank Herbert, and derivative works. | 04:24 |
| encod3d | ok ok nvm | 04:24 |
| encod3d | <3 everyone | 04:25 |
| Triskelios | someone's a pun on "SoC" expanded to "Spice of Creation" | 04:25 |
| encod3d | i accidently submited a proposal twice | 04:25 |
| encod3d | how do i delete the duplicate? | 04:25 |
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| Upthorn | Is there a better time to ask for technical support with the melange interface? | 04:41 |
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| Triskelios | Upthorn: when it's daytime in the US, I suspect. or try http://groups.google.com/group/melange-soc?pli=1 | 04:49 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/8gej> (at groups.google.com) | 04:49 |
| Upthorn | Triskelios: thanks, I'll try again tomorrow, then | 04:49 |
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| madrazr | Upthorn: Hi | 05:18 |
| madrazr | the best time to ask for support here or in #GSoC is during the mid-day to evening in the Central European timezone | 05:19 |
| Upthorn | madrazr: what time is that relative to UTC? | 05:19 |
| madrazr | Upthorn: heh, good question. I need to calculate that :P | 05:20 |
| Upthorn | I'm in UTC-7, just asked for help tonight because that's when I was writing up my org wiki application | 05:20 |
| madrazr | since I only know it wrt to my TZ | 05:20 |
| madrazr | Upthorn: probably UTC+2 | 05:20 |
| madrazr | Upthorn: and as far the answer to your question, you cannot answer your proposals from previous years yet | 05:21 |
| madrazr | Upthorn: we are working towards that | 05:21 |
| madrazr | Upthorn: I don't want to commit to any time as ETA, but just that it may arrive this weekend (but no promises) | 05:21 |
| Upthorn | Okay. | 05:21 |
| Upthorn | I was slightly worried that the data was lost because the links from last year's application now 404, and the application process changed this year (last year I did not have to re-register as a student because I was already in the system that way from 2009) | 05:23 |
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| madrazr | Upthorn: I can assure you that no data is lost | 06:03 |
| Upthorn | Okay | 06:03 |
| madrazr | Upthorn: we have taken enough pains to ensure that | 06:03 |
| Upthorn | Do you think it might be lost in the near future? :p | 06:03 |
| madrazr | Upthorn: LoL! | 06:04 |
| madrazr | Upthorn: I don't think so. Why? | 06:04 |
| Upthorn | That was kind of me making fun of myself. I have a tendency to worry overly about such things | 06:04 |
| Upthorn | As for why I might worry about that, you already seem to be aware of what I said before you joined -- I'd like to make reference to my prior successful GSoC projects in this year's application | 06:09 |
| madrazr | Upthorn: ah Ok | 06:09 |
| madrazr | Upthorn: I just need to switch my place | 06:09 |
| madrazr | I will brb | 06:09 |
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| dreimark | what is now the equiv. to http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/homepage/google/gci2010 | 09:44 |
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| madrazr | dreimark: I am confused | 09:51 |
| madrazr | dreimark: can you please tell me what are you actually looking at? | 09:51 |
| madrazr | dreimark: /gsoc/.../gci2010 just doesn't sound right to me | 09:51 |
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| Talad | SRabbelier: the list of rotating organizations seems to act a bit weird | 10:42 |
| Talad | for example now you have: liquidgalaxy, gst, boost, minix3, javapathfinder | 10:43 |
| Talad | boost looks out of order | 10:43 |
| Talad | well, also the others are not in alphabetical order | 10:44 |
| Talad | I followed the instructions to add key to the widget and order by key | 10:44 |
| Talad | but seems that's not the order used | 10:45 |
| SRabbelier | Talad: it skips the ones that don't have their logo set | 10:53 |
| Talad | SRabbelier: still seems not working, if it goes from J -> B it should get our logo at least | 10:55 |
| Talad | assuming it walks forward and not backward | 10:56 |
| SRabbelier | Talad: regardless of the sorting order, everybody gets a turn | 10:56 |
| SRabbelier | set up a bot to make a screenshot every half hour if you want | 10:56 |
| Talad | ok :) | 10:56 |
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| Kferd | hello. can somebody do a reregister from student to mentor for me? | 11:14 |
| Kferd | i tried myself and with a request, but if already registered as a student, a reregister as mentor does not work | 11:17 |
| Kferd | somebody here now? | 11:18 |
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| coder89 | Hello everyone! I have a problem. I am a student and I would like to send my proposal. But I can't find where I can do this. I only see "Become mentor" so I suppose that my account is a mentor account. Is there any way to change it? Thank you for help in advance! | 11:27 |
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| SRabbelier | Kferd: hi | 11:32 |
| Kferd | hello | 11:32 |
| SRabbelier | Kferd, coder89: send me an email with your link_id and your desired status change | 11:32 |
| Kferd | can u tell us the mail address!? | 11:33 |
| Kferd | or how can I do this | 11:33 |
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| Kferd | SRabbelier: may u tell us the email address where to send our regest | 11:35 |
| Kferd | SRabbelier: may u tell us the email address where to send our request | 11:35 |
| SRabbelier | Kferd: my nick at gmail | 11:36 |
| Talad | coder89: if you are a mentor, you cannot be a student | 11:37 |
| coder89 | Talad: I'm not a mentor - only my account was registered as a mentor account and I can't remember when I could choose those account type. | 11:44 |
| Talad | click on My dashboard and see if you have any organization listed | 11:46 |
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| coder89 | Talad: of course I have but I can't see 'Submit your proposal'. Instead of this I see 'mentors: apply!' text on main pane of website. | 11:56 |
| coder89 | Talad: Oh. I'm sorry... I mean that I see organizations on 'Accepted organizations page' but not on My dashboard. :P | 11:58 |
| Talad | no idea then | 12:00 |
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| acemcloud1 | hey Taggnostr.. u there? | 13:46 |
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| Taggnostr | acemcloud1, yes | 14:01 |
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| acemcloud1 | yeah.. any luck eith finding your proposal on the site? | 14:25 |
| acemcloud1 | *with | 14:25 |
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| gancient | hi all , i wanted to file a feature request for melange. for the portal to send an email to the author of the proposal , when someone comments. | 15:05 |
| gancient | can i please be directed to the bug tracker of melange ? | 15:06 |
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| slingshot316 | gancient: http://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/list | 15:07 |
| tpb | Title: Issues - soc - SoC (Spice of Creation) - Google Project Hosting (at code.google.com) | 15:07 |
| slingshot316 | gancient: you can file a new issue there :) | 15:07 |
| gancient | slingshot316: thanks :) | 15:07 |
| slingshot316 | gancient: np :) | 15:07 |
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| Taggnostr | acemcloud1, now I can see it in "projects" but if I click on it nothing happens | 15:21 |
| pacman | madrazr: Hi | 15:22 |
| madrazr | pacman: Heya! | 15:22 |
| madrazr | pacman: sorry, you had pinged me yesterday when I was away | 15:22 |
| madrazr | and when I saw you had left | 15:23 |
| pacman | madrazr: np | 15:23 |
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| pacman | madrazr: So then I heard about you and melange from Sarath Lakshman, and thats how I thought about doing a GSoC project for Melange | 15:24 |
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| pacman | my default coding language is python and three of the projects listed on the ideas page of melange looks doable to me | 15:26 |
| madrazr | pacman: nice | 15:27 |
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| pacman | and I was talking to srabbelier about it too | 15:28 |
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| pacman | madrazr: and it is from srabbelier that i got to know that you know more about the GCI module than anyone else | 15:29 |
| madrazr | pacman: yeah. I read the logs | 15:30 |
| pacman | madrazr: the three projects, better gci module, improved architecture and exporting to google docs looks interesting and doable to me | 15:33 |
| madrazr | pacman: cool! | 15:33 |
| madrazr | pacman: did you submit a proposal yet? | 15:33 |
| pacman | madrazr: no not yet | 15:34 |
| pacman | madrazr: It would be great of I could get inputs from you as to which project I should concentrate on | 15:36 |
| madrazr | pacman: TBH, I can give you feedback | 15:37 |
| madrazr | pacman: but you should give the real inputs | 15:37 |
| madrazr | pacman: as to what interests you to work on | 15:37 |
| madrazr | pacman: and such | 15:37 |
| madrazr | I can given feedback on such inputs to help you choose the project | 15:37 |
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| pacman | madrazr: sorry got dc | 15:53 |
| madrazr | pacman: NP | 15:54 |
| pacman | madrazr: I would love to work on the django platform | 15:54 |
| pacman | madrazr: and I wouldnt say that I've worked in UX design | 15:55 |
| madrazr | pacman: pretty much all the projects in Melange would let you do that | 15:55 |
| madrazr | pacman: I mean let you work on Django platform | 15:55 |
| pacman | madrazr: yeah exactly.. and thats the reason why I would prefer Melange to any other org | 15:56 |
| madrazr | pacman: cool! | 15:57 |
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| slingshot316 | madrazr: hello :) | 16:09 |
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| * madrazr waves to carols :) | 16:55 | |
| carols | hi mad | 16:56 |
| carols | madrazr: | 16:56 |
| carols | sorry, got my messages mixed up there | 16:56 |
| madrazr | carols: no problem :) | 16:57 |
| * carols needs more coffee | 16:57 | |
| * madrazr serves | 16:57 | |
| carols | thanks madrazr | 16:57 |
| carols | :-) | 16:57 |
| madrazr | :) | 16:57 |
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| Taggnostr | http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/list_projects/google/gsoc2010 is there a way to open the proposals listed here? | 17:50 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/8fuR> (at socghop.appspot.com) | 17:50 |
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| madrazr | Taggnostr: Pages from previous years are not available yet | 18:11 |
| madrazr | Taggnostr: all the data is safe, I can assure | 18:11 |
| madrazr | Taggnostr: but those pages need the makeup we have put for GSoC 2011 pages :P | 18:11 |
| Taggnostr | madrazr, do you know when they will be available? | 18:13 |
| madrazr | Taggnostr: I can't really commit on the ETA. I am sorry | 18:13 |
| Taggnostr | ok, I wanted to check something in the proposal I made last year applying again, but if they are not going to be available soon I think I'll just apply | 18:15 |
| madrazr | Taggnostr: cool! thanks | 18:18 |
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| Nightrose | heys :) | 18:58 |
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| Nightrose | is there any chance we can get negative scores back in the ratings? | 18:58 |
| Nightrose | our rating system will not work with only positive scores and i am wondering if i will have to figure out a new one with my mentors or of there is a chance to get negative scores back | 18:59 |
| Nightrose | sorting out the really bad proposals that way was necessary in the large number of applications we get | 19:01 |
| Nightrose | i can't just shift the whole scale since i can't expect all mentors to vote on all proposals | 19:01 |
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| eoc | question about the logo … can we provide a svg that is then resized to fit accordingly or do we need to crop pngs? | 19:08 |
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| |Kev| | eoc: It has to work inside an <img/> tag. | 19:39 |
| |Kev| | (So png is your safest option) | 19:40 |
| eoc | hm, well, svg would certainly be of advantage if e.g. size requirements change later | 19:40 |
| eoc | svg should™ also work there | 19:40 |
| eoc | just that nobody sees them :< | 19:40 |
| |Kev| | I just used a resized png for ours. | 19:42 |
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| weta | is there a lag between mentors requesting and them showing up in the admin's dashboard? | 19:49 |
| weta | A couple of folks said they signed up, but I don't see them yet. Wondering if I should tell them they didn't do it right or not. | 19:49 |
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| weta | madrazr: Please see above when you get a sec. Thank you | 19:56 |
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| madrazr | weta: No. Not that I know of, because all of them happen in real time (I mean none in background processes). So theoritically there should be absolutely no lag | 20:07 |
| madrazr | weta: but well yeah, let me check the logs to see if something went wrong | 20:08 |
| madrazr | Nightrose: give me few mins, I will update you on the scoring system | 20:08 |
| Nightrose | madrazr: thx | 20:08 |
| madrazr | eoc: personally I would be scared to use an SVG yet since I always want our org to feature on front page no matter what browser is used | 20:09 |
| madrazr | eoc: if you don't mind people who don't use a standards compliant browser, you can give an SVG | 20:11 |
| madrazr | eoc: just FYI, we just use max-width 65px and max-height 65px (there is no other restriction) | 20:12 |
| madrazr | weta: I don't see any errors in the logs | 20:12 |
| madrazr | weta: so I don't think there is any problem with the mentor requests | 20:13 |
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| madrazr | weta: I am just testing out locally with the latest code to see if some one broke it (Tests seem to pass though) | 20:14 |
| madrazr | weta: just a small test, can you ask your mentors to see if they see the message "You are already for this organization" when they go to your organization home page? | 20:18 |
| Nightrose | weta: i think i saw some delay in the last days yes | 20:20 |
| Nightrose | mentors telling me they applied but didn't show up immediately but a minute or two later maybe | 20:20 |
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| madrazr | Nightrose: sorry for my delayed response to you. I just wanted to make sure that I know what I am talking :) | 20:23 |
| madrazr | Nightrose: it seems like negative scoring won't be added | 20:23 |
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| madrazr | Nightrose: but to address your concern, we are adding a checkbox for org admins on the proposal (and also on the list of proposals) to say "I accept this proposal" | 20:24 |
| madrazr | Nightrose: so that those proposals will be accepted irrespective of all the scores given by mentors | 20:24 |
| madrazr | Nightrose: is that reasonable for you guys? | 20:24 |
| madrazr | Nightrose: I completely understand you are a very big Org. Indeed the largest among all the GSoC orgs? :) | 20:25 |
| Nightrose | madrazr: hmm i need to think about that for a sec | 20:25 |
| Nightrose | yes the largest one last year | 20:25 |
| madrazr | Nightrose: sure take your time | 20:25 |
| Nightrose | so what we did last year and the year before: | 20:25 |
| madrazr | Nightrose: EchoDitto suggests we should still keep the star rating mechanism | 20:25 |
| Nightrose | each mentor was allowed to vote +1 or -1 on all proposals | 20:26 |
| Nightrose | +1 -> great proposal - we should take it | 20:26 |
| Nightrose | no vote = 0 = i don't care of have not reviewed | 20:26 |
| Nightrose | -1 -> proposal sucks - don't take it | 20:26 |
| Nightrose | this way in the end the bad proposals ended up at the bottom of our list and the good ones moved up | 20:27 |
| Nightrose | and then the admins adjusted that whole thing in a last step based on what the subteams in kde voted for only their proposals in a seperate spreadsheet | 20:27 |
| |Kev| | Nightrose: I think that's statistically similar to picking 1 and 3, and not voting if you were previously +-0 | 20:27 |
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| madrazr | Nightrose: I see your problem of using a different scale now | 20:28 |
| |Kev| | Although I've not done the maths. | 20:28 |
| Nightrose | |Kev|: yeah - that's what i am not sure about atm | 20:28 |
| |Kev| | Certainly using the whole scale will be a bother if you want to keep the same model. | 20:28 |
| |Kev| | But voting -1 and +1 becoming +1 and +3 is equivalent. | 20:28 |
| |Kev| | Just subtract 2 from the new score to get the old score. | 20:29 |
| Nightrose | and those who don't vote? | 20:29 |
| Nightrose | hmmm | 20:29 |
| |Kev| | Will not vote, which doesn't affect the score, in the same way that 0 didn't affect it before. | 20:29 |
| madrazr | |Kev|: subtracting makes sense, until then ... :) | 20:29 |
| Nightrose | so essentially 0 and 2 would be the same? | 20:30 |
| |Kev| | Nightrose: I don't think it's *quite* statistically equivalent, but it's pretty close. | 20:30 |
| Nightrose | *nod* | 20:30 |
| |Kev| | I think you want to still vote 0 (i.e. not vote) if you're not voting. | 20:30 |
| Nightrose | the problem i have of course is that i can't get all mentors to vote on all proposals | 20:30 |
| madrazr | Nightrose: sure | 20:30 |
| Nightrose | and i'm not sure if that is ok with that system or not | 20:30 |
| Nightrose | i guess i need to see it in action then | 20:30 |
| madrazr | Nightrose: subtracting by 2 is almost equivalent | 20:31 |
| madrazr | Nightrose: I will take a look at it locally and see how it works | 20:31 |
| Nightrose | ok thx :) | 20:31 |
| |Kev| | Having people not vote should have the same (no) effect on the scores that it had last time. | 20:31 |
| Nightrose | appreciate it | 20:31 |
| Nightrose | |Kev|: ok - that'd be good | 20:31 |
| |Kev| | I can probably run some numbers for you in a moment if you'd like. | 20:31 |
| Nightrose | let's see what madrazr is coming up with | 20:32 |
| madrazr | |Kev|: Nightrose: I see one concern myself though | 20:32 |
| Nightrose | yeah? | 20:32 |
| madrazr | subtracting you can do well, but Melange ranking would still use the scale from +1 to +3 | 20:32 |
| madrazr | that way in the list on Melange you would still see 0 voted ones at the bottom | 20:33 |
| Nightrose | i guess that'd be good in a way | 20:33 |
| Nightrose | then they're clearly not taken care of yet | 20:33 |
| Nightrose | as opposed to potentially disputed proposals before | 20:33 |
| |Kev| | madrazr: That can easily be solved by having one person vote 2 on everything. | 20:33 |
| madrazr | |Kev|: KDE receives 300 proposals | 20:34 |
| madrazr | Nightrose: correct? | 20:34 |
| Nightrose | correct ;-) | 20:34 |
| madrazr | or some insane number like that :P | 20:34 |
| |Kev| | madrazr: It's a bind for one person, but at least it's only one person. | 20:34 |
| |Kev| | I'm just trying to make a suggestion that's as statistically similar to the old one as possible. | 20:34 |
| madrazr | heh sure | 20:34 |
| madrazr | |Kev|: sure. thank you very much | 20:34 |
| madrazr | |Kev|: I am not saying it is wrong or anything. I am just weighing things | 20:35 |
| madrazr | as to what would be good | 20:35 |
| |Kev| | It's not the same, and I'm not even convinced the ordering will come out the same same, but at least it sounds fair. | 20:35 |
| madrazr | |Kev|: I agree with that | 20:35 |
| |Kev| | And (apart from the one poor sod) no harder for mentors than the old system. | 20:35 |
| Nightrose | heh | 20:35 |
| Nightrose | tell that to the one poor sod :P | 20:36 |
| |Kev| | Nightrose: I think I have :) | 20:36 |
| gevaerts | That's what the $500 per mentor is for! | 20:36 |
| Nightrose | (or the one mentor who goes through all our proposals and comments) | 20:36 |
| madrazr | Nightrose: |Kev|: I am quite sure even PSF will have the same problem :P | 20:36 |
| Nightrose | gevaerts: we use them to send students to Akademy ;-) | 20:36 |
| madrazr | thats the next monster after KDE | 20:36 |
| madrazr | and ASF too :P | 20:36 |
| weta | madrazr: thanks for the suggestion. I'll ask them to check and get back to me. There's at least a few mentors who I was expecting to see, but I don't see their requests. | 20:37 |
| |Kev| | Nightrose: How many mentors are we talking about? | 20:37 |
| madrazr | weta: No problem. I tried to reproduce it locally. But there seems like no problem or lag. Also I don't see any errors in our logs. So things should be fine | 20:37 |
| Nightrose | who sign up? about 100 i guess? - not sure yet | 20:37 |
| |Kev| | Ta. | 20:37 |
| weta | madrazr: OK, thanks. I'll chase one person I know who hasn't signed up yet too and ask them to. | 20:38 |
| gevaerts | hm | 20:38 |
| gevaerts | Wouldn't this solution mean that not only one of the mentors has to click a lot, but then also not have a counting vote? | 20:38 |
| Nightrose | jep | 20:38 |
| gevaerts | You could have a dummy mentor of course | 20:39 |
| Nightrose | heh yeah | 20:41 |
| Nightrose | but well | 20:41 |
| Nightrose | as i said above this might actually not be a problem but a good thing | 20:41 |
| Nightrose | because then all the proposals that no-one voted on yet are clearly visible | 20:41 |
| |Kev| | I'm realising at the moment that I don't remember python :s | 20:42 |
| Nightrose | lol | 20:42 |
| madrazr | weta: heh sure :) | 20:43 |
| |Kev| | Ok. | 20:45 |
| |Kev| | So, I have good news and bad news :D | 20:45 |
| gevaerts | Tell us the good news, and hide the bad news :) | 20:45 |
| |Kev| | The good news is that KDE can have a statistically equivalent ordering system to last year. | 20:46 |
| Nightrose | heh | 20:47 |
| Nightrose | \o/ | 20:47 |
| Nightrose | the bad news? | 20:47 |
| |Kev| | How do you feel about everyone voting on every application? | 20:47 |
| Nightrose | impossible | 20:47 |
| |Kev| | You have your bad news. | 20:47 |
| Nightrose | -.- | 20:48 |
| |Kev| | Let me just sort out the ordering. | 20:48 |
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| madrazr | |Kev|: Nightrose: From the 3 cases I took, it might not matter at all. You just don't need to subtract as well :) | 20:50 |
| madrazr | Let me just paste my scores here | 20:50 |
| Nightrose | ok | 20:50 |
| madrazr | Case 1: Old scoring: -3 -1 0 0 0 (-4) | 20:51 |
| madrazr | () is total | 20:51 |
| madrazr | New scoring: 1 3 0 0 0 (4) | 20:51 |
| madrazr | Case 2: Old scoring: 2 -1 -3 0 0 0 0 0 (-2) | 20:51 |
| madrazr | New Scoring: 6 3 1 0 0 0 0 0 (10) | 20:52 |
| madrazr | Case 3: Old Scoring: 2 3 0 3 2 0 0 2 -1 -3 (8) | 20:52 |
| Nightrose | so the new scores are added up and not an average? | 20:52 |
| madrazr | New Scoring: 6 7 0 7 6 0 0 6 3 1 (36) | 20:52 |
| |Kev| | Ok, this is pretty close. | 20:52 |
| |Kev| | madrazr: Ah, I've just written that too :) | 20:52 |
| |Kev| | Let me paste what I have, though. | 20:53 |
| madrazr | Nightrose: averaging, good question. I am not sure about that myself :D | 20:53 |
| |Kev| | Which isn't quite as rosy, I'm afraid. | 20:53 |
| madrazr | let us average | 20:53 |
| madrazr | |Kev|: sure :) | 20:53 |
| |Kev| | madrazr: I've already done this, it saves you the time :) | 20:53 |
| madrazr | |Kev|: LoL! it doesn't need to be Rosy :P | 20:53 |
| madrazr | |Kev|: hah Ok | 20:53 |
| * madrazr waits for |Kev| | 20:53 | |
| Nightrose | madrazr: because if it is added up it gets us into the problem of not every mentor voting on every proposal | 20:53 |
| Nightrose | that's not a problem if it is averaged | 20:54 |
| |Kev| | http://astyanax.doomsong.co.uk/~kismith/nolisting/tmp/nightrose.py.txt | 20:54 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/8grq> (at astyanax.doomsong.co.uk) | 20:54 |
| * gevaerts thinks that melange should provide an API for people to develop scoring/ranking side-applications :) | 20:54 | |
| Nightrose | lol | 20:54 |
| |Kev| | http://astyanax.doomsong.co.uk/~kismith/nolisting/tmp/nightroseout.txt | 20:54 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/8grr> (at astyanax.doomsong.co.uk) | 20:54 |
| |Kev| | So it's pretty close, but not the same. | 20:54 |
| Nightrose | looking | 20:55 |
| |Kev| | If you look at nightroseout, the last three lines. | 20:55 |
| |Kev| | The last line is the ranking of each set of votes, assuming everyone votes like last year but +2 | 20:55 |
| |Kev| | (And with *everyone* voting) | 20:56 |
| |Kev| | The previous line is if everyone who voted -1 votes 1, and everyone voting +1 votes 3, with one person voting 2 on everything. | 20:56 |
| |Kev| | The previous line is with -1, 0 and 1 | 20:56 |
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| * Nightrose hands cookies to |Kev| and madrazr | 20:57 | |
| madrazr | |Kev|: so averaging on mentors has the same effect | 20:57 |
| |Kev| | madrazr: Same effect as what? :) | 20:57 |
| * madrazr grabs the cookies and eats first (too hungry) and then think later :P | 20:57 | |
| madrazr | Nightrose: thanks :) | 20:57 |
| Nightrose | hehe | 20:57 |
| madrazr | |Kev|: as the old score? | 20:57 |
| Nightrose | i also have some kiwi left over | 20:57 |
| |Kev| | madrazr: Only if *everyone* votes. | 20:58 |
| |Kev| | madrazr: If only the people who voted before vote, you end up with the last but one line, not the last line. | 20:58 |
| |Kev| | Which you can see is pretty close, but not exactly the same ordering. | 20:58 |
| madrazr | |Kev|: yeah, it is almost same | 20:58 |
| |Kev| | The ordering is, however, 'fair', I think. | 20:58 |
| madrazr | yeah sure, I notice that | 20:59 |
| madrazr | Nightrose: in such border cases, you can manually adjust? | 20:59 |
| Nightrose | i can if melange allows it yes | 20:59 |
| madrazr | Nightrose: you can say "I want this proposal, I don't care anything else in the world" :P | 20:59 |
| |Kev| | madrazr: Well, there's an easy solution to this. | 20:59 |
| |Kev| | Well, 'easy'. | 20:59 |
| madrazr | Nightrose: we will have that when ranking opens | 20:59 |
| madrazr | |Kev|: whats that? | 20:59 |
| Nightrose | the thing is: is the score of each proposal now the sum of all votes or the average? | 21:00 |
| |Kev| | If melange can show the number of votes, as well as the average, it's easy to sort this out. | 21:00 |
| |Kev| | With a script, to end up with an equivalent ordering to last year. | 21:00 |
| Nightrose | right | 21:00 |
| |Kev| | If you know how many mentors voted in total, and the *exact* average, you can even work it out. | 21:01 |
| |Kev| | But with just the average you can't. | 21:01 |
| madrazr | Nightrose: honestly I don't know that yet. I haven't read that code. It was mostly written by Daniel and some parts by Sverre | 21:01 |
| |Kev| | Although I don't see this as a problem, the results willl still be fair, I think. | 21:01 |
| |Kev| | And I think it only matters for people who would previously have been below 0 score, although I haven't proved that. | 21:01 |
| Nightrose | madrazr: ok - that would be good to find out - ideally imho it would be the average | 21:02 |
| Nightrose | |Kev|: well consider this case: | 21:02 |
| Nightrose | a proposal gets only one vote but that one vote is a 3 | 21:02 |
| Nightrose | another proposal gets 4 votes - all of them 1s | 21:02 |
| Nightrose | if we do the sum of that the bad proposal is higher ranked than the good one | 21:02 |
| Nightrose | if we do average the bad one is below the good one | 21:03 |
| |Kev| | I have added these two cases to the script, and uploaded the results | 21:03 |
| |Kev| | Noting, as I predicted that the only people who've changed position are again those who score below 0 aggregate in the old system. | 21:04 |
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| Nightrose | ok - i think it is too late for me to follow that last part | 21:05 |
| Nightrose | sorry | 21:05 |
| Nightrose | brain melting :P | 21:05 |
| |Kev| | TL;DR: The suggested scoring system should work ok for the students that 'matter'. | 21:05 |
| |Kev| | The students that you'll end up rejecting anyway will end up in a different order, but assuming you'll only be accepting people with more positive than negative votes, I *think* you're ok. | 21:06 |
| Nightrose | hmmm but doesn't the first student above matter? | 21:06 |
| madrazr | Nightrose: sure, it may depending on the scores, but border cases can be adjust manually? | 21:06 |
| |Kev| | Nightrose: 'first student above'? | 21:07 |
| Nightrose | ok - you know what - i'll wait for madrazr to find out if it is actually the average or sum in the end | 21:07 |
| Nightrose | |Kev|: the one with only one vote but that being a 3 | 21:07 |
| madrazr | |Kev|: the last accepted student I think | 21:07 |
| Nightrose | madrazr: well question is if those are border cases - i don't think the one above is one | 21:07 |
| |Kev| | The placements are in ascending order in this list, so the student marked 0 is last place. | 21:07 |
| |Kev| | Oh, I see what you mean. | 21:08 |
| Nightrose | thanks a bunch guys for spending brain cycles on this | 21:08 |
| |Kev| | If the only thing you have available is the sum in the new system, the system is completely broken :) | 21:08 |
| Nightrose | |Kev|: exactly | 21:08 |
| eoc | agree there | 21:09 |
| |Kev| | I'm assuming it's the average, or even better the average plus knowing what the exact votes were. | 21:09 |
| Nightrose | *nod* | 21:09 |
| |Kev| | Either of which can be made to work reasonably. | 21:09 |
| * gevaerts thinks that the debian schulze-condorcet method makes most sense | 21:10 | |
| |Kev| | Just for reference, I've uploaded what a sum system would do. | 21:10 |
| |Kev| | (The last line) | 21:10 |
| |Kev| | Which, as you can see, is completely broken. | 21:10 |
| Nightrose | |Kev|: my point exactly ;-) | 21:11 |
| Nightrose | thx | 21:11 |
| madrazr | Nightrose: I notice that we currently store the total score for the proposal and all the scores separately | 21:11 |
| madrazr | I am not able to find the code that displays (but there is one I guess since I see such a thing on the Proposal Review page) | 21:11 |
| Nightrose | ok | 21:11 |
| madrazr | Nightrose: so we can probably display both? :P or give org admins options to choose that? | 21:11 |
| |Kev| | madrazr: The only reasonable use of that total is when used as total / count(votes) | 21:12 |
| |Kev| | Please don't display the total anywhere :) | 21:12 |
| Nightrose | yeah what |Kev| said | 21:12 |
| madrazr | |Kev|: which is average? | 21:12 |
| |Kev| | Mean average, yes. | 21:12 |
| madrazr | |Kev|: right :) | 21:12 |
| madrazr | I never get those terms right :P | 21:12 |
| * Nightrose neither | 21:12 | |
| Nightrose | :P | 21:12 |
| gevaerts | Show all averages! | 21:12 |
| Nightrose | gevaerts: you win an internetz | 21:13 |
| |Kev| | I do, but then I have two maths teachers as parents, so hey ho. | 21:13 |
| gevaerts | Well, median doesn't make much sense if you have a few dozen votes in a 1 to 3 range... | 21:13 |
| Nightrose | |Kev|: that must either be pretty awesome or really horrible | 21:13 |
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| |Kev| | median makes sense to eliminate outliers, we don't have much scope for outliers here, mean is what you want. | 21:14 |
| |Kev| | Nightrose: Spot the person who wrote the script to check the similarities between scoring systems, and then guess :) | 21:14 |
| Nightrose | lol | 21:14 |
| madrazr | |Kev|: gevaerts: Nightrose: I have made a note of showing only averages (and if feasible the count of votes). I will bring it up in our next call | 21:15 |
| |Kev| | Thanks. | 21:15 |
| madrazr | |Kev|: thanks for saving us some development time | 21:15 |
| |Kev| | I'm not sure I've done that, but you're welcome. | 21:15 |
| madrazr | |Kev|: could better be used to bring in some important stuff | 21:15 |
| Nightrose | thx a bunch madrazr | 21:16 |
| madrazr | Nightrose: thank you very much for bring it up | 21:16 |
| gevaerts | madrazr: you mean like better logo rotation? :) | 21:16 |
| madrazr | Nightrose: I hope it helps all other orgs | 21:16 |
| Nightrose | *nod* | 21:16 |
| madrazr | gevaerts: yeah? Wasn't that the most sought after feature? | 21:16 |
| Nightrose | haha | 21:16 |
| Nightrose | it was! | 21:16 |
| Nightrose | (rightfully so) | 21:16 |
| madrazr | gevaerts: EchoDitto just randomly chose those logos (may be because they could get them very easily for the resolution they wanted) | 21:17 |
| gevaerts | madrazr: this is something like the difference between mean and median, only here it's most sought after and most needed :) | 21:17 |
| madrazr | and there were some outcries for giving some orgs advantage :P | 21:17 |
| madrazr | Melange devs did not do that :P | 21:17 |
| madrazr | Nightrose: so KDE looked up already in the turn? | 21:17 |
| madrazr | Nightrose: while writing the code, I had KDE as one of the test logos :) | 21:18 |
| madrazr | gevaerts: so that was not most needed? :) | 21:18 |
| Nightrose | i didn't see kde's logo yet no | 21:18 |
| |Kev| | I think it was, actually. | 21:18 |
| Nightrose | but i probably just went on the page at the wrong time | 21:18 |
| |Kev| | Something seems to be heavily suppressing applications this year, at least for us. | 21:18 |
| |Kev| | So eliminating any possible causes is good. | 21:18 |
| madrazr | Nightrose: if you keep going there at the same time every day you should see KDE in less than 17.5 days :D | 21:18 |
| Nightrose | rofl | 21:19 |
| Nightrose | ok | 21:19 |
| gevaerts | madrazr: It's hard to say. I also wanted the rotation, but I'm not sure where I'd have placed it on the priority list | 21:19 |
| madrazr | |Kev|: more Indian students but? | 21:19 |
| * madrazr hides | 21:19 | |
| madrazr | ;-) | 21:19 |
| Nightrose | |Kev|: yeah i also have the impression that it is slower this year | 21:19 |
| Nightrose | but i am really happy to see a lot of names from conf.kde.in in the applications | 21:20 |
| Nightrose | and they're pretty solid applications | 21:20 |
| |Kev| | I have had a (seemingly) higher number of high-quality students approach me, but no particularly inspiring applications yet, and only a few that aren't. | 21:20 |
| madrazr | gevaerts: from the mailing list discussions and people complaining the low turn out, it seemed like a very high priority for me (personally) | 21:20 |
| |Kev| | Also, you're a big meaniepie. You've got me in an I-Want-To-Do-Maths mood, and it's gone 10 at night, and I've been working since 7am one way or another. | 21:20 |
| madrazr | gevaerts: and well I just wanted to close that issue without any more comments and noise ;-) | 21:20 |
| gevaerts | madrazr: oh, I'm not complaining :) | 21:21 |
| madrazr | so that we would ensure that we are serious about the bugs filed :) | 21:21 |
| madrazr | gevaerts: LoL! | 21:21 |
| madrazr | I did not say or mean that :) | 21:21 |
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| Nightrose | |Kev|: go als look at cuteoverload for a while to make up for all the meaniepies here :P | 21:21 |
| |Kev| | Heh. | 21:22 |
| madrazr | Nightrose: wow! Pradeepto should know that. It will inspire him to do another conf.kde.in I guess :) | 21:22 |
| Nightrose | madrazr: jep - will do | 21:22 |
| madrazr | Nightrose: thanks :) | 21:22 |
| madrazr | |Kev|: OMG! You need some rest now :) | 21:22 |
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| gevaerts | madrazr: my impression of the mentor mailing list in general isn't *entirely* positive, so I tend to ignore complaints there | 21:23 |
| madrazr | |Kev|: gevaerts and Nightrose: For some reason, students this year are trying to delay the submission till the end? | 21:23 |
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| madrazr | about Melange | 21:23 |
| Nightrose | i've been pushing them as much as i can to submit asap | 21:23 |
| Nightrose | but maybe | 21:24 |
| *** eoc` is now known as eoc | 21:24 | |
| gevaerts | maybe | 21:24 |
| madrazr | we have higher had number of turn out (even before we launched the new UI). But the submission seems low yet | 21:24 |
| madrazr | *we had higher I meant :) | 21:24 |
| gevaerts | I can't really remember the time distribution from previous years | 21:24 |
| madrazr | gevaerts: me too | 21:24 |
| madrazr | gevaerts: but it is just a human tendency to postpone till the deadline :) | 21:24 |
| madrazr | gevaerts: I did that during both GSoC 2008 and 2009 | 21:24 |
| madrazr | I almost submitted the proposal in the last couple of days | 21:25 |
| madrazr | *proposals I should say :P | 21:25 |
| Nightrose | hehe | 21:25 |
| Nightrose | how many did you write? | 21:25 |
| madrazr | Nightrose: 7 totally :P (1 in 2007, 3 in 2008 and 3 in 2009) | 21:25 |
| madrazr | 2007 got rejected :P | 21:25 |
| Nightrose | wow | 21:25 |
| Nightrose | not bad | 21:25 |
| krkhan | my proposal is okay when i view it but as soon as i click on update half the text goes missing in the edit box | 21:26 |
| madrazr | :) | 21:26 |
| madrazr | krkhan: can you please link me to your review page? | 21:26 |
| krkhan | madrazr: http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/proposal/review/google/gsoc2011/krkhan/1 | 21:27 |
| madrazr | Nightrose: GSoC has been an amazing experience for me in the last 5 years (2007 to 2011) | 21:27 |
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| madrazr | Nightrose: it has been career path changing experience :) | 21:27 |
| madrazr | Nightrose: so yes, not bad :) | 21:27 |
| Nightrose | :) | 21:27 |
| LetterRip | for the logo - is the size less than or equal to 65x65 or less than | 21:27 |
| LetterRip | 65x65 | 21:27 |
| madrazr | LetterRip: it is capped at 65px x 65 px | 21:27 |
| LetterRip | ok | 21:27 |
| madrazr | LetterRip: either of the dimensions can be individually smaller | 21:28 |
| LetterRip | also does the logo location need to be permanent | 21:28 |
| LetterRip | or can i do a temp upload? | 21:28 |
| madrazr | LetterRip: but don't give us a logo which is bigger than that, we will make it look ugly with rough edges by reduction :P | 21:28 |
| * madrazr ducks | 21:28 | |
| LetterRip | right i've already scaled it to the correct size | 21:28 |
| LetterRip | but wanted to make sure it didn't have to be 64 | 21:28 |
| madrazr | LetterRip: it need not be permanent | 21:28 |
| LetterRip | since the text says les than 65 | 21:29 |
| LetterRip | ok | 21:29 |
| madrazr | LetterRip: we just cache the results for 30 mins | 21:29 |
| madrazr | LetterRip: please don't remove the image from the location when your Org is featuring | 21:29 |
| LetterRip | ok | 21:29 |
| madrazr | LetterRip: otherwise you can change the URL on your org profile form | 21:29 |
| LetterRip | that is what i was curious about | 21:29 |
| madrazr | krkhan: looking at it | 21:29 |
| LetterRip | if it was stored on you guys after link | 21:29 |
| LetterRip | or if you fetched and cached on demand | 21:29 |
| madrazr | LetterRip: we have carefully stayed away from storing Org images | 21:30 |
| LetterRip | ok | 21:30 |
| krkhan | madrazr: i have to fix a few typos in my proposal but dont want to edit it right now in case i cant reproduce the bug later on | 21:30 |
| madrazr | LetterRip: 1st it will cost us API quota on Appengine. We are already hitting soft limits on some API quota. So we did not want to take more burden | 21:30 |
| LetterRip | k | 21:30 |
| madrazr | 2. we will have to get a consent from Google's counsel before we start storing your logos | 21:31 |
| madrazr | LetterRip: we just don't have enough time for it for GSoC 2011 :) | 21:31 |
| LetterRip | just wanted to be sure how permanent the location should be | 21:31 |
| madrazr | LetterRip: ah Ok cool! | 21:31 |
| gevaerts | Maybe a google cache URL will work :) | 21:31 |
| LetterRip | otherwise i was going to upload to a temp folder | 21:31 |
| madrazr | LetterRip: sorry for boring you with those details :) | 21:31 |
| LetterRip | heh no problme :) | 21:31 |
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| madrazr | krkhan: sure | 21:31 |
| madrazr | krkhan: you got an ID of 1? | 21:32 |
| madrazr | yeah!? really!? | 21:32 |
| madrazr | you are the blessed guy probably :P | 21:32 |
| madrazr | krkhan: can I PM you? | 21:33 |
| krkhan | madrazr: i thought the id was 1 because this was my first proposal. is it unique to all proposals :o ? | 21:33 |
| krkhan | madrazr: sure :) | 21:33 |
| madrazr | krkhan: I just don't want to copy paste lines from your proposal in public, since you have not made it public | 21:33 |
| madrazr | krkhan: thanks | 21:33 |
| madrazr | krkhan: about IDs. I can't say that | 21:34 |
| madrazr | krkhan: in fact none of us can say that | 21:34 |
| madrazr | krkhan: only Appengine knows :) | 21:34 |
| |Kev| | Right, I must hit the bed before I hit the floor. | 21:36 |
| |Kev| | GNight! | 21:36 |
| madrazr | |Kev|: thanks for all the help | 21:36 |
| |Kev| | Thanks for yours :) | 21:36 |
| madrazr | |Kev|: have a good sleep. Good night :) | 21:36 |
| madrazr | or is "sleep tight" acceptable in that part of the world? ;-) | 21:36 |
| LetterRip | sleep tight, don't let the bed bugs bite | 21:38 |
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| dberkholz | i'm trying to invite a new admin who definitely does not show up as an admin and has no pending admin invite, but it says she already is one. | 21:49 |
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| dberkholz | she is currently a mentor | 21:50 |
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| LetterRip | any comments - does this look ok? | 21:57 |
| LetterRip | http://www.blender.org/fileadmin/site/_gfx/blender_logo_stacked_65x65.png | 21:57 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/8gsc> (at www.blender.org) | 21:57 |
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| madrazr | LetterRip: looks good to me. You guys are lucky to have a square logo :) | 22:15 |
| madrazr | dberkholz: can you ask her to check her dashboard once? | 22:15 |
| LetterRip | we don't | 22:15 |
| LetterRip | i'm making it square from our official logo | 22:15 |
| madrazr | LetterRip: you made it look like square? | 22:15 |
| gevaerts | You do now :) | 22:15 |
| LetterRip | well the total logo is the hand+eye with text | 22:15 |
| madrazr | LetterRip: I don't think it is necessary. Just cap the sizes for 65 px | 22:15 |
| madrazr | one of them can be smaller | 22:15 |
| LetterRip | madrazr: have to reorganize it | 22:16 |
| madrazr | LetterRip: changing identity!? | 22:16 |
| LetterRip | since by default it is linear | 22:16 |
| LetterRip | http://download.blender.org/institute/logos/blenderlogo.png | 22:16 |
| LetterRip | is our logo | 22:16 |
| LetterRip | the way it is supposed to look | 22:16 |
| LetterRip | got permission to do rearranging etc | 22:16 |
| LetterRip | but i'm not much of an artist - was told that i have horridly distracting aliasing in the above :) | 22:17 |
| LetterRip | so trying to fix by scaling with a better scaling tool | 22:17 |
| madrazr | LetterRip: after I saw the actual logo, I thought it makes sense to cut out that text at least :P | 22:18 |
| LetterRip | trying to find svg versions of all the files so i can scale them right | 22:18 |
| madrazr | LetterRip: we will give you that text in the onmouse hover now :) | 22:18 |
| LetterRip | madrazr: ah ok | 22:19 |
| madrazr | LetterRip: thank Sverre for that :) | 22:19 |
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| Talad|ZzZ | Hi | 22:53 |
| Talad|ZzZ | is there a way to delete a proposal if it's a duplicate? | 22:53 |
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