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| djc | I'm confused, where did the proposal scoring bits go? | 04:33 |
|---|---|---|
| kblin | djc: use the dropdown box to make a mentor or admin comment, not a public comment | 04:35 |
| djc | thanks | 04:44 |
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| drycafe | hi - we had talked to Pawel a couple days ago about switching a student from another org to us - it sounds from one of the emails on melange-soc that we should bring that up here or file an issue on the tracker | 10:44 |
| drycafe | (us = NESCent) | 10:44 |
| drycafe | can we figure this out right here or should I go ahead and file the tracker item? | 10:45 |
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| Merio | Hi drycafe, I'm not one of the committers, but the issue tracker is the best way to go | 10:49 |
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| drycafe | Merio: thanks, I guess I'll do that then | 11:04 |
| drycafe | lh: Merio recommended that I put the request about switching an application from GenMAPP to NESCent on the tracker - just FYI, in case you suggest differently | 11:06 |
| madrazr | SRabbelier: Hi | 11:06 |
| sandy|lurk | drycafe: that is what was recommended to me by lh :-) | 11:11 |
| sandy|lurk | I was told to file an issue, email the melange list, and ping somebody here | 11:12 |
| sandy|lurk | So I did that, and here is the issue: http://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=565 | 11:12 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/37Fx> (at code.google.com) | 11:12 |
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| kblin | lh: hi there :) | 11:15 |
| drycafe | sandy|lurk: yes I saw the email - thanks for the link, now I guess I just need to clone and change URL and org names :-) | 11:15 |
| drycafe | alright, here it is: http://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=566 | 11:24 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/37G4> (at code.google.com) | 11:24 |
| lh | sandy|lurk, drycafe: have the apps still not been moved for you? | 11:32 |
| lh | kblin: hail unto thee | 11:33 |
| sandy|lurk | lh: no, not yet | 11:33 |
| lh | sandy|lurk: ok thanks, i will see what i can do to help things along. i have the issue number too. :) | 11:34 |
| drycafe | lh: no, not yet | 11:35 |
| sandy|lurk | lh: are preliminary allocations coming out today? | 11:35 |
| lh | drycafe: may i have the issue url please | 11:35 |
| lh | sandy|lurk: yes | 11:35 |
| sandy|lurk | cool | 11:35 |
| drycafe | lh: http://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=566 | 11:35 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/37G4> (at code.google.com) | 11:35 |
| lh | drycafe: thank you | 11:35 |
| drycafe | lh: awesome, it's switched now! big thank you to everyone how had a hand in this | 11:45 |
| drycafe | s/how/who | 11:45 |
| lh | drycafe: i didn't have a chance to do anything yet, but i presume we have solydzajs to thank for this | 11:46 |
| lh | sandy|lurk: is yours fixed too? | 11:47 |
| * sandy|lurk checks... | 11:47 | |
| sandy|lurk | well, it's still in mono | 11:47 |
| * sandy|lurk checks gnome | 11:47 | |
| sandy|lurk | lh: no, it has not moved | 11:48 |
| lh | sandy|lurk: ok thanks. | 11:48 |
| sandy|lurk | oh weird, I don't see my post on the melange list | 11:49 |
| lh | sandy|lurk: i saw it | 11:49 |
| drycafe | lh: give my regards & thanks to solydzajs if s/he was the one | 11:49 |
| lh | drycafe: will do | 11:49 |
| drycafe | sandy|lurk: I saw it too | 11:49 |
| sandy|lurk | hmm, thanks | 11:49 |
| lh | drycafe: hilmar just emailed the melange-soc list - can you reply and let him know it was taken care of? | 11:50 |
| drycafe | sandy|lurk: (actually I even replied :) | 11:50 |
| lh | oh nm. | 11:50 |
| sandy|lurk | :-) | 11:50 |
| * lh waves to hilmar | 11:50 | |
| * drycafe waves back to lh | 11:50 | |
| sandy|lurk | oh, I see what happened | 11:50 |
| sandy|lurk | it's now under your subject | 11:51 |
| * drycafe has split personality which he knows causes confusion sometimes | 11:51 | |
| drycafe | sandy|lurk: yeah I "tweaked" the subject so as not to be wrong, but didn't open a new thread as in principle it's the same kind of request | 11:52 |
| sandy|lurk | drycafe: yeah, it's just weird how google groups represents that, hope melange devs don't think they took care of my request | 11:53 |
| lh | sandy|lurk: put in request by private mail too. | 11:54 |
| sandy|lurk | lh: you did, or I should? if I should, to whom? | 11:55 |
| lh | sandy|lurk: i took care of it | 11:57 |
| sandy|lurk | you are awesome lh | 11:57 |
| drycafe | lh: I noted on the tracker item that it has been taken care of but for some reason I can't close out the item (or I'm too dumb to see how) | 11:58 |
| lh | sandy|lurk: i try | 11:58 |
| lh | drycafe: we will take care of that for you later | 11:58 |
| lh | drycafe: please dont send this message to the gsoc discuss list. | 11:59 |
| lh | drycafe: we should coordinate next year so that you can send this out after our deadline. as it stands i dont want to distract students from gsoc. that might get me killed. :) | 11:59 |
| drycafe | lh: OK - as I said that's what I expected | 12:00 |
| lh | drycafe: sorry, it's an awesome effort | 12:00 |
| lh | i will pimp it on twitter right now tho | 12:00 |
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| drycafe | lh: thanks, yes more coordination next year would be great and considered a (really big) privilege | 12:02 |
| drycafe | lh: and if anyone threatens your life the wrath of at least 3000 mentors would be upon them :) | 12:03 |
| lh | drycafe: that's so kind of you. :) | 12:05 |
| lh | drycafe: just sent this out via identi.ca and twitter, let's hope it helps | 12:05 |
| solydzajs | lh: who requested the transfer of Mono application to GNOME ? do we need confirmation from student ? | 12:06 |
| lh | solydzajs: it was sandy|lurk and i am ok with going ahead. i trust sandy. | 12:06 |
| lh | sandy|lurk: the student knows you plan to do this, yes? | 12:06 |
| sandy|lurk | lh: yes | 12:06 |
| drycafe | lh: thanks so much, more publicity helps greatly | 12:06 |
| solydzajs | sandy|lurk: ok so Mono admin agreed too ? | 12:06 |
| sandy|lurk | solydzajs: yes, they requested it of me | 12:07 |
| lh | sandy|lurk: fantastic. | 12:07 |
| solydzajs | sandy|lurk: ok working on it | 12:07 |
| sandy|lurk | would you like them to hop in here and conrim? | 12:07 |
| solydzajs | sandy|lurk: all the previous comments will be deleted | 12:07 |
| lh | solydzajs: sandy|lurk knows mjhutch well, we're good | 12:07 |
| sandy|lurk | ok, thanks | 12:07 |
| lh | drycafe: you're most welcome | 12:07 |
| solydzajs | sandy|lurk: and score will be set to 0 | 12:07 |
| sandy|lurk | solydzajs: makes perfect sense | 12:07 |
| solydzajs | sandy|lurk: ok give me 5 minutes | 12:07 |
| lh | drycafe: i am hoping that some of your students and mentors may want to help with patches to melange. :) | 12:07 |
| drycafe | solydzajs: thanks for the GenMAPP->NESCent switch for us - greatly appreciated! | 12:07 |
| solydzajs | drycafe: no problem :-) | 12:08 |
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| drycafe | lh: I'm hoping that too, though only one of the mentors actually speaks python :-) | 12:09 |
| lh | drycafe: one more person to help is one more than we had before. :) | 12:10 |
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| solydzajs | sandy|lurk: done. | 12:13 |
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| sandy|lurk | solydzajs: thanks! | 12:14 |
| solydzajs | sandy|lurk: check if it works please :-) | 12:14 |
| sandy|lurk | I see it has moved | 12:15 |
| sandy|lurk | in Mono, it was the #1 ranked proposal, now the top proposal has rank "2" | 12:15 |
| sandy|lurk | but I guess that's all relative | 12:15 |
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| sandy|lurk | solydzajs: also, possible mentors are still filled in, but in our case that is ok because we have the same people in GNOME | 12:15 |
| solydzajs | sandy|lurk: ok I need to remove possible mentors one sec | 12:16 |
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| sandy|lurk | solydzajs: please let me know when it's safe to edit :-) | 12:18 |
| solydzajs | sandy|lurk: ok will do | 12:18 |
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| solydzajs | sandy|lurk: ok possible mentors removed. What was the problem with the rank again ? | 12:25 |
| sandy|lurk | solydzajs: well I don't know if it is a problem. This proposal was the top proposal in Mono, so it had a rank of "1". Now the top proposal in Mono has a rank of "2" | 12:26 |
| sandy|lurk | is that a problem? | 12:26 |
| solydzajs | nope shouldn't be | 12:26 |
| sandy|lurk | okay, thanks again | 12:27 |
| sandy|lurk | really appreciate the help | 12:27 |
| solydzajs | no problem :-) | 12:27 |
| solydzajs | glad I could help | 12:27 |
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| * SRabbelier is back :) | 12:40 | |
| lh | SRabbelier: woot. | 12:44 |
| SRabbelier | time for dinner though :D | 12:44 |
| SRabbelier | need f00d first | 12:44 |
| lh | yay food. | 12:44 |
| SRabbelier | lh: nom nom ^_^ | 12:45 |
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| * SRabbelier is back | 13:13 | |
| kblin | again? | 13:14 |
| kblin | :) | 13:14 |
| SRabbelier | yup! | 13:14 |
| SRabbelier | back from dinner this time | 13:14 |
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| lh | SRabbelier: how goeth the codeth? | 13:47 |
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| SRabbelier | lh: well :) | 13:49 |
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| lh | SRabbelier: rock, let me know when you commit. :) | 13:49 |
| SRabbelier | lh: I will | 13:50 |
| SRabbelier | :) | 13:50 |
| lh | SRabbelier: merci, danke, thank you, gracias. | 13:51 |
| * lh forgot thank you in dutch | 13:51 | |
| SRabbelier | lh: same as german, only with a 'j' between the k an the e | 13:52 |
| lh | dankje | 13:52 |
| * lh makes note | 13:52 | |
| * SRabbelier smiles | 13:52 | |
| SRabbelier | madrazr: ping | 13:56 |
| madrazr | SRabbelier: pong | 13:56 |
| SRabbelier | madrazr: what about the problem with the publicly available comments with your patch? | 13:57 |
| madrazr | SRabbelier: you mean, I need to fix it now? | 13:57 |
| madrazr | SRabbelier: as in what to do about it? | 13:57 |
| SRabbelier | madrazr: the latter | 13:58 |
| madrazr | SRabbelier: I think it is not good to commit it now because of the problem that Lennie told | 13:58 |
| SRabbelier | madrazr: ok | 13:58 |
| madrazr | SRabbelier: I will fix it up as soon as possible | 13:58 |
| madrazr | but wanted a design decision from you guys | 13:58 |
| madrazr | SRabbelier: I am just thought of sending in a context variable to the template. if not the right user, don't show comment and public reviews box at all | 13:59 |
| madrazr | SRabbelier: is it feasible? | 13:59 |
| SRabbelier | madrazr: mhhh, I think it'd actually be easier to create a new view | 14:00 |
| madrazr | SRabbelier: Ok fine | 14:00 |
| madrazr | SRabbelier: but the issue is with the URLs | 14:00 |
| madrazr | it just a human tendency to copy paste the URL :P | 14:01 |
| madrazr | SRabbelier: how do we take care of 2 different URLs? | 14:01 |
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| SRabbelier | madrazr: hmmmm, we can redirect to the new /comment page if the user is logged in an is the student? | 14:04 |
| madrazr | SRabbelier: yeah sure, if thats Ok to you | 14:04 |
| madrazr | will do the same | 14:04 |
| mordante | short question I see melange got another update and the default for comments is now public instead of private, is that intentionally? | 14:04 |
| SRabbelier | mordante: no, it's fixed and will be changed back to private | 14:05 |
| SRabbelier | madrazr: + with the next release | 14:05 |
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| madrazr | SRabbelier: when is the next release? | 14:05 |
| mordante | SRabbelier, ok thanks for the info | 14:05 |
| SRabbelier | madrazr: tonight | 14:05 |
| madrazr | SRabbelier: awesome! | 14:06 |
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| SRabbelier | madrazr: but neither of your patches are applied yet :( | 14:06 |
| madrazr | SRabbelier: No problemo! | 14:06 |
| SRabbelier | madrazr: oh, ok :) | 14:06 |
| madrazr | SRabbelier: I won't worry much about being applied. I worry if it is not reviewed well! | 14:06 |
| madrazr | :) | 14:06 |
| SRabbelier | madrazr: hheehe, no worries about that | 14:07 |
| madrazr | SRabbelier: :) | 14:07 |
| * SRabbelier goes back to coding | 14:07 | |
| * madrazr goes for dinner | 14:07 | |
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| * mordante goes back reviewing applications | 14:09 | |
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| Stivo | I have looked on the web, but I dont know what to search for: can a mentor currently unlock a proposal for the student to be edited? | 14:17 |
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| * lh nudges SRabbelier gently | 14:19 | |
| sandy|lurk | lh, SRabbelier: another proposal relocation request :-) http://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=568 | 14:19 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/37KG> (at code.google.com) | 14:19 |
| SRabbelier | sandy|lurk: please to mail pawel.solyga at gmail dot com | 14:20 |
| lh | sandy|lurk: please emai melange-soc for it so we can keep track on list. :) | 14:21 |
| * lh will poke solydzajs to look | 14:21 | |
| sandy|lurk | I of course emailed the list first :-) | 14:21 |
| lh | sandy|lurk: perfecto | 14:21 |
| sandy|lurk | thanks again lh | 14:21 |
| lh | SRabbelier: sorry, think it is best to track these on list than in private mail | 14:21 |
| lh | sandy|lurk: no problem | 14:21 |
| SRabbelier | lh: at least tell them to cc pawel too | 14:22 |
| lh | sandy|lurk: please to do as SRabbelier has asked. | 14:22 |
| sandy|lurk | on it | 14:22 |
| lh | jenred, Stivo: this feature has not yet been implemented. | 14:22 |
| Stivo | lh: Ok. So I will just leave a comment then | 14:23 |
| Stivo | thanks | 14:23 |
| SRabbelier | Stivo: we have a patch on file though | 14:23 |
| SRabbelier | Stivo: hopefully we'll have time to review and commit it for the release after this one | 14:23 |
| Stivo | SRabbelier: sounds good | 14:24 |
| SRabbelier | Stivo: (the current release is focussed on getting slot allocations done) | 14:24 |
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| madrazr | SRabbelier: btw I finally setup hg subversion today. Hope I won't go mad again to create subsequent patches before the previous ones get committed ;-) | 14:40 |
| SRabbelier | madrazr: sweet! | 14:41 |
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| ArthurLiu | SRabbelier, could you make eligible again some of our proposals ? | 15:43 |
| SRabbelier | ArthurLiu: you can do that yourself by now :) | 15:44 |
| ArthurLiu | really ? | 15:44 |
| ArthurLiu | cool | 15:44 |
| SRabbelier | ArthurLiu: yeah, just go to the page | 15:44 |
| SRabbelier | ArthurLiu: you can push the button :) | 15:44 |
| madrazr | SRabbelier: I am leaving now. Good night | 15:56 |
| SRabbelier | madrazr: ok, see you :) | 15:57 |
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| lh | SRabbelier: what is an admin comment? this is a new feature, and i think it means comments visible to admins only | 16:20 |
| SRabbelier | lh: no | 16:21 |
| SRabbelier | lh: it means a regular comment, but you can set rank and assigned mentor | 16:21 |
| ArthurLiu | even lh is confused :D | 16:21 |
| SRabbelier | lh: if you have a suggestion for a better name | 16:21 |
| lh | ArthurLiu: my friend, that is not helpful. | 16:21 |
| SRabbelier | ArthurLiu: please do speak up | 16:21 |
| ArthurLiu | I have a ticket up about that | 16:21 |
| lh | SRabbelier: ok got it now, thanks. i will document it. | 16:21 |
| ArthurLiu | I suggested "admin action" and remove the comment part altogether | 16:21 |
| SRabbelier | ArthurLiu: what's that? | 16:21 |
| SRabbelier | ArthurLiu: oh, mhhh | 16:22 |
| ArthurLiu | and let the admin either put a public or private comment, or both | 16:22 |
| SRabbelier | ArthurLiu: didn't the comments in the issue trail off into that people want the ocmment part? | 16:22 |
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| ArthurLiu | http://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=553 here | 16:23 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/36rU> (at code.google.com) | 16:23 |
| ArthurLiu | the "admin action" thing should be extracted from the "comment" dropdown list | 16:23 |
| ArthurLiu | and put as a radio button allowing to do admin actions (the other being "public/private comment", allowing to choose public or private from the dropdown) | 16:24 |
| ArthurLiu | admin action should also include "mark ineligible", as it is the same stuff | 16:25 |
| ArthurLiu | admin action would show as "mentor" action if mentor, and include "willing to mentor" | 16:25 |
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| ArthurLiu | I think it is much more intuitive and homogenous that way | 16:25 |
| ArthurLiu | SRabbelier, what do you think ? | 16:25 |
| SRabbelier | ArthurLiu: I know 0 about UI design | 16:26 |
| SRabbelier | ArthurLiu: and so far the changes we've heard from the mentors have been so diverse | 16:26 |
| SRabbelier | ArthurLiu: I am not going to change anything until that issue gets the 42 required stars | 16:27 |
| ArthurLiu | I made a graphical package manager for last year's gsoc :D | 16:27 |
| SRabbelier | it's got 2 | 16:27 |
| ArthurLiu | hum | 16:27 |
| lh | ArthurLiu: this is something that can be worked on in the future. | 16:27 |
| lh | SRabbelier: i am going for lunch now, i think pawel will be back soon to do the release. | 16:28 |
| lh | :) | 16:28 |
| James--Crook | ArthurLiu: 3 stars now. | 16:28 |
| ArthurLiu | I'm copying what I said in the issue | 16:28 |
| SRabbelier | lh: ok, enjoy | 16:28 |
| SRabbelier | ArthurLiu: go for it | 16:28 |
| James--Crook | ArthurLiu said "The Melange team is awesome. " in issue 553 (additional information section). That must be what he intended to say here. | 16:30 |
| ArthurLiu | mmh? :) | 16:30 |
| James--Crook | ..ah got it... I joined AFTER you re-posted your comment from issue 553. | 16:31 |
| ArthurLiu | James--Crook, you sound confused | 16:32 |
| James--Crook | So I took 'I am copying...' as a statement of future intent. | 16:32 |
| ArthurLiu | it's also | 16:32 |
| James--Crook | rather than what you had already done. | 16:32 |
| ArthurLiu | just added it: http://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=553#c6 | 16:32 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/37Mp> (at code.google.com) | 16:32 |
| ArthurLiu | you were both wrong and right | 16:32 |
| James--Crook | Refreshing... | 16:33 |
| James--Crook | got iy now. | 16:33 |
| James--Crook | s/iy/it/ | 16:33 |
| James--Crook | ArthurLiu: whilst you're here, is that your top care-about for melange as it is now? | 16:34 |
| ArthurLiu | I had a few other gripes but they've been fixed, including one I wrote the patch for myself :) | 16:35 |
| James--Crook | Awesome. Which issue was the patch for? | 16:35 |
| ArthurLiu | make the tinymce text editor resizable | 16:35 |
| ArthurLiu | I have a big screen :) | 16:36 |
| James--Crook | http://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=402 | 16:36 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/37Mt> (at code.google.com) | 16:36 |
| ArthurLiu | yes | 16:37 |
| James--Crook | Yep. Very useful. | 16:37 |
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| James--Crook | ArthurLiu: Are you mentoring this year? | 16:38 |
| ArthurLiu | I'm admin for Debian | 16:38 |
| ArthurLiu | I was a student for Debian last year | 16:39 |
| ArthurLiu | but not mentoring, yet | 16:39 |
| ArthurLiu | I don't have DD status yet, it takes a while to go through the vetting process | 16:39 |
| James--Crook | Cool. I wonder how many students become admins there are! Not many I would expect. | 16:39 |
| James--Crook | Yes, debian care about quality / security from what I have seen. | 16:40 |
| ArthurLiu | we release when it's ready :) | 16:41 |
| James--Crook | Wow. I've just seen Debian had 11 students last year! Willing to share rough number of applicants this year? | 16:43 |
| ArthurLiu | 42 :) | 16:44 |
| ArthurLiu | we're targetting 13 keepers | 16:44 |
| James--Crook | And somehow I know you are not kidding... | 16:44 |
| James--Crook | We had 25 (non spam) applicants last year, and are about half that this year, but there is a very good reason. | 16:45 |
| James--Crook | All our project ideas on the wiki were aspects of getting Audacity release ready... so bugfixing was the main one... then UI de-niggling... feature completions.... less scope for blue skies proposals. | 16:46 |
| ArthurLiu | yeah, we had about a hundred proposals last year I was told | 16:46 |
| James--Crook | OMG :-) | 16:47 |
| ArthurLiu | we had that too | 16:47 |
| ArthurLiu | http://wiki.debian.org/SummerOfCode2009#Projectproposals most of them sound "what is that?" | 16:47 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/37N-> (at wiki.debian.org) | 16:47 |
| James--Crook | ..looking... | 16:48 |
| ArthurLiu | quite arcane stuff too | 16:48 |
| James--Crook | Talk to me about debuggs | 16:49 |
| James--Crook | I mean debbugs | 16:49 |
| ArthurLiu | :) | 16:49 |
| James--Crook | Why mail based? Historical reasons? | 16:50 |
| ArthurLiu | old-school people :) | 16:51 |
| James--Crook | old-school often has good reason.... I'm just thinking it through.... | 16:52 |
| ArthurLiu | there's the innate fear that opening it to anyone without registration would open the door to spam and useless bug reports/comments and uncontactable bug submitters | 16:52 |
| James--Crook | +1 Excellent. | 16:52 |
| ArthurLiu | the debbugswebui proposal tries to strike a balance | 16:52 |
| James--Crook | So automatic guarantee that poster of bug is easily contactable. | 16:53 |
| ArthurLiu | between the user unfriendliness of mail based systems and the (sometimes) unusefulness of Launchpad for example | 16:53 |
| James--Crook | Launchpad unuseful? Specifics? | 16:53 |
| ArthurLiu | too many "me too" bug comments, comments that suggest clueless solutions, etc | 16:55 |
| ArthurLiu | but that's not entirely due to the web nature | 16:55 |
| James--Crook | So something like a wiki where you can keep distilling the comments down would be good... | 16:56 |
| ArthurLiu | well, the web ui doesn't intend to provide more functionalities than the current mail interface | 16:57 |
| ArthurLiu | but offer new workflow possibilities | 16:57 |
| ArthurLiu | make it easier to triage bugs, etc | 16:57 |
| James--Crook | Forwarding mails to different lists or some such? Or something else? | 16:58 |
| James--Crook | Or webui acts as a filter on *any* mail archive, and you can choose to use it for the debbugs mail lists? | 16:59 |
| James--Crook | Where I'm coming from... I've been wanting the ease of gmail tags in bugzilla. The bugzilla tagging interface creaks. | 17:00 |
| * kblin waves at James--Crook | 17:05 | |
| kblin | James--Crook: there's actually some students-turned admins I guess | 17:05 |
| kblin | James--Crook: gsoc alumni are more likely to care about gsoc | 17:05 |
| * James--Crook waves at kblin | 17:07 | |
| James--Crook | true... | 17:08 |
| ArthurLiu | another annoying issue with launchpad is that it's proprietary and closed source :) | 17:08 |
| lh | James--Crook: agreed. | 17:08 |
| James--Crook | but methinks it's a big jump to go from student to admin in an org with (say) 100 proposals.... | 17:09 |
| ArthurLiu | I did have some help to get set up but I'm actually the one in charge | 17:09 |
| ArthurLiu | which is pretty cool | 17:09 |
| James--Crook | kblin: I've had more of a look at launchpad now... and I like it. | 17:09 |
| ArthurLiu | quite time consuming though | 17:09 |
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| James--Crook | ArthurLiu: Busiest period was the selction period, at least for Audacity last year it was... | 17:10 |
| James--Crook | kblin: I like being able to easily transfer issues between different kinds of lists... | 17:10 |
| James--Crook | and the blueprint looks like a sensible way to link a list to wiki. | 17:11 |
| * kblin nods | 17:11 | |
| James--Crook | but, it all feels a bit inflexible. like I am constrained to using their flow. | 17:11 |
| ArthurLiu | I also have a debconf panel talk and maybe some debcamp stuff to organize for GSoC students at DebConf9 in Spain this july :) | 17:11 |
| James--Crook | And, ArthurLiu's point... it i snot open source... and will not be. | 17:11 |
| kblin | James--Crook: sure, it was more like "look at the cool features you would need" rathern than "why not use launchpad instead" | 17:12 |
| James--Crook | (I saw july 2009 somewhere as a date for open sourcing it, but that seems to only be the top levels) | 17:12 |
| ArthurLiu | the debian bug tracking system allows you to naturally forward back and forth when necessary bugs from mailing lists to the tracker | 17:13 |
| James--Crook | kblin: I didn't see all that many cool features, or at any rate hard features, once you get past the nice graphic design. | 17:13 |
| kblin | ArthurLiu: I was not meaning to belittle the work admining for a huge project like debian is | 17:13 |
| James--Crook | It's forms plus wiki, nicely done, but with fixed forms. | 17:13 |
| kblin | James--Crook: it's nice and integrated | 17:13 |
| ArthurLiu | kblin, :) | 17:13 |
| James--Crook | It does what it sets out to do well. Yes. | 17:13 |
| kblin | James--Crook: for a small project like wombat, it's got all the stuff I need to manage it, in one stop | 17:14 |
| kblin | James--Crook: if I could host my source code in it, it'd be perfect | 17:14 |
| kblin | google code isn't too bad either | 17:14 |
| ArthurLiu | the all integrated launchpad application design is *way* too constraining for debian developers who work in all kinds of different ways | 17:14 |
| James--Crook | kblin: but take your example, if you wanted to add an artist workflow to it, it is too rigid to make that easily possible (even if it were open source) | 17:14 |
| kblin | James--Crook: I've yet to see an open source tool that allows for easy artist management | 17:15 |
| kblin | James--Crook: apart from the one I'm working on ;) | 17:15 |
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| James--Crook | OK. So has to display assets. What are the concept barriers in existing trackers that get in the way? | 17:16 |
| kblin | James--Crook: most trackers assume that you can diff the stuff tracked | 17:18 |
| kblin | or have patches | 17:18 |
| James--Crook | That's greg wilsons general-diff initiative... Would help there? Trigger content specific diffs based on mime type he said... | 17:19 |
| kblin | also, as a developer, getting stuff out of a tracker in order to be able to use it is clumsy | 17:19 |
| kblin | you can't diff pictures | 17:19 |
| James--Crook | I rememebr it because we were interested in an audio diff... | 17:19 |
| kblin | there's no sensible way to do this | 17:19 |
| James--Crook | Well... panatools do a kind of diff to join up images, but I agree, not in general you can't. | 17:19 |
| kblin | creating artwork is much less iterative than coding | 17:20 |
| James--Crook | picture diffs, you need side-by-side and let the human do it. I can see how trying to extend git to artwork would be a challenge! | 17:21 |
| kblin | at least it's hard to split it into isolated steps | 17:21 |
| kblin | James--Crook: especially as a media repository on git would be huge | 17:21 |
| James--Crook | ..though later steps in model building you could perhaps. but then that is more | 17:21 |
| James--Crook | algorithmic anyway. | 17:21 |
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| ArthurLiu | kblin, photoshop supports the "snapshot" concept, something like this ? | 17:22 |
| kblin | ArthurLiu: but the diff doesn't make sense.. | 17:22 |
| kblin | imagine someone's touching up a photo... | 17:22 |
| kblin | one step might be to smudge out skin irregularities | 17:23 |
| ArthurLiu | I suppose the internal representation of the actions history would be a first step | 17:23 |
| ArthurLiu | I have no idea how graphics programs implement that | 17:23 |
| James--Crook | so for artwork the ideal artist tracker can only really track meta data... and the art lives in some sense outside it, and is presented by it in clever ways. I love the idea of making assets that are used more show larger in the overview... | 17:23 |
| James--Crook | I think that's very neat concept. | 17:23 |
| ArthurLiu | standardise everyone on POVray :) | 17:24 |
| kblin | ArthurLiu: haha, yeah | 17:24 |
| kblin | ArthurLiu: may current 3D programs could export to Collada, which attempts to be a standardized format | 17:24 |
| kblin | it's xml-based, too | 17:24 |
| kblin | it's completely overdesigned and crap | 17:25 |
| ArthurLiu | xml is like violence, if it doesn't work, use more | 17:25 |
| kblin | so every artist will use his own toolchain | 17:25 |
| James--Crook | kblin: and that is part of artistry... part of having a style, a look. | 17:26 |
| ArthurLiu | the Adobe DNG format is an epic fail too | 17:26 |
| kblin | James--Crook: yeah, ideally you need to track dependencies | 17:26 |
| kblin | James--Crook: like 3d models consist of the mesh, the skeletton (with animations) and textures | 17:26 |
| kblin | sometimes it makes sense to track these by file, sometimes you only care about the whole model | 17:27 |
| * James--Crook nods | 17:27 | |
| kblin | and relationships are not always easy to determine automatically | 17:28 |
| kblin | for example WorldForge uses texture templates | 17:28 |
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| kblin | so let's assume you have multiple animal models | 17:29 |
| kblin | they all map their meshes to the same texture template | 17:29 |
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| kblin | which allows you to use textures on different models | 17:29 |
| James--Crook | I worked in an animation studio some years ago. Because of slowness of renderring we had different models for different points of view... back of alligator, lots of detail when seen from above, much less/different for from the side. | 17:29 |
| merbanan | how do I mark an application as eligible again ? | 17:29 |
| kblin | sometimes that makes sense, e.g. using a wolf texture on a pig makes it look like a wild boar | 17:30 |
| merbanan | never mind me I'm stupid | 17:30 |
| kblin | the other way around doesn't work so well | 17:30 |
| James--Crook | merbanan: not stupid. many people have asked. | 17:30 |
| ArthurLiu | merbanan, you might be inclined to star this : http://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=553 :) | 17:31 |
| kblin | yet you still want to track the possible textures from each mesh | 17:31 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/36rU> (at code.google.com) | 17:31 |
| James--Crook | kblin: :-) | 17:31 |
| merbanan | I guess the feature appear | 17:31 |
| James--Crook | 553 yay 4 stars,... | 17:31 |
| merbanan | *ed a few days ago | 17:31 |
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| ArthurLiu | next one to popup asking where the "assign admin" action is on mentors list, I hawk my melange issue :D | 17:32 |
| kblin | merbanan: it's a new google thing, they just forgot to write "beta" all over melange ;) | 17:32 |
| ArthurLiu | it's like gmail, but the other way around :) | 17:32 |
| merbanan | ok, anyway my issue is resolved | 17:33 |
| kblin | James--Crook: I don't claim to understand all the implications, I'm not an artist, I just used to play one on TV | 17:33 |
| James--Crook | kblin: we'll know we have made good progress when we DO have beta written on it. | 17:34 |
| James--Crook | kblin: wow! | 17:34 |
| kblin | James--Crook: actually I'm kidding. I just tried being a concept artist before I turned to coding :) | 17:34 |
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| James--Crook | kblin: I'm guessing the derivation process for art assets is very manual at the moment? | 17:34 |
| kblin | James--Crook: totally | 17:35 |
| James--Crook | i.e not a clean system like scons for example? | 17:35 |
| James--Crook | which could be adapted? | 17:35 |
| kblin | you want artists to edit text files? :) | 17:35 |
| James--Crook | rofl :-) | 17:35 |
| James--Crook | but the people who use the art could... | 17:36 |
| James--Crook | but I see the problem. | 17:36 |
| kblin | I think one of our client devs has a script that will fetch the game art from the repo, do some preparation work on it and then build the media tarball | 17:36 |
| ArthurLiu | kblin, what about editing GNU Makefiles, listing every texture you're using, with $@, $< and $^ all around ? | 17:36 |
| James--Crook | are they using open source apps all the way along the pipeline? | 17:37 |
| kblin | you're kidding | 17:37 |
| James--Crook | ArthurLiu: I think you should teach artists to use autoconf. | 17:37 |
| kblin | ever tried using blender? | 17:37 |
| ArthurLiu | nightmares | 17:37 |
| kblin | it's getting better, but compared to maya or 3dsmax the interface is pretty.. rough | 17:38 |
| kblin | I never really did 3d stuff, though. I can only repeat what I hear from our artists | 17:39 |
| James--Crook | kblin: OK. So that puts an upper limit on what can be achieved with good scripting and cooperation from the 'art software'. | 17:39 |
| kblin | I think I modelled a mushroom once | 17:39 |
| James--Crook | phah. That's nothing. I can do a monkey. :-) | 17:40 |
| kblin | James--Crook: that's why I think the asset management software should take care of that | 17:40 |
| James--Crook | right | 17:40 |
| James--Crook | admittedly it looked very like the stock example. | 17:40 |
| James--Crook | then I went back to cubes. | 17:41 |
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| kblin | James--Crook: ideally, you also provide an API for all of these features so you can write plug-ins for the tools the artists use | 17:41 |
| James--Crook | We've just started in that direction on audacity. | 17:43 |
| James--Crook | by that I mean a proper plug in api, not just effects. | 17:43 |
| James--Crook | so that third part controlling apps can hook up to it. | 17:44 |
| James--Crook | But closed source apps will fight you tooth and nail there. | 17:45 |
| kblin | nah, not for the 3D modelling world | 17:45 |
| kblin | at least to do import/export plugins is a common thing | 17:45 |
| kblin | mostly because about every game engine has it's own file format | 17:46 |
| kblin | same for the movie stuff, I guess | 17:46 |
| kblin | so a lot of closed source apps come with a plugin SDK | 17:47 |
| kblin | how did we get into this topic again? | 17:51 |
| * kblin goes read scrollback | 17:51 | |
| ArthurLiu | bug tracking stuff | 17:52 |
| kblin | yeah | 17:53 |
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| kblin | right, how launchpad was unuseable for tracking debian bugs | 17:54 |
| kblin | I still think the main problem ubuntu bug tracking has is the people using it :) | 17:55 |
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| kblin | oh | 18:01 |
| * kblin eyes issue 416 | 18:02 | |
| kblin | I totally used lower case letters for the "lower ASCII" stuff :) | 18:02 |
| kblin | oh well | 18:02 |
| * lh goes to look at issue 416 | 18:02 | |
| lh | oh that one. | 18:02 |
| lh | you know i hate to say this | 18:02 |
| lh | but you know where that comes from? | 18:02 |
| lh | i was trying to figure out how to say "nothing that does not appear on a keyboard from the usa" correctly two years ago | 18:03 |
| lh | so i asked the then fiance, figuring since he was a leet programmer and what not that he'd know. | 18:03 |
| lh | i suggested ascii | 18:03 |
| lh | he said that was wrong, it's lower ascii | 18:03 |
| lh | and hence the namage | 18:03 |
| kblin | ha | 18:03 |
| * lh secretly gloats that said ex-"leet" dude had head in rear on that one | 18:04 | |
| kblin | I really haven't encountered that term before | 18:04 |
| kblin | no real harm done, of course :) | 18:04 |
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| lh | kblin: i just think it's hillarious. it's also, methinks, a valuable lesson. it's really easy to think "oh dude, you just don't get it" about newbies or those less well versed than you, but then again *no one* knows everything. :) | 18:06 |
| lh | or even everything correctly | 18:06 |
| * kblin doesn't trust programmers as far as he can toss them | 18:08 | |
| SRabbelier | kblin: s/as far as/further than/ | 18:08 |
| kblin | I tried with myself, and I can't toss myself very far | 18:08 |
| kblin | SRabbelier: whatever | 18:08 |
| lh | kblin: lol. that's awesome. | 18:11 |
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| kblin | so, just out of curiosity, was there any consensus on keeping that weird tinymce or dropping it in favour for that wiki-like markup? | 18:11 |
| * lh favors dropping for wiki like markup | 18:15 | |
| lh | however, i do not think consensus has been achieved. there is also the question of preserving existing data to consider. | 18:15 |
| kblin | well, probably insane doing so during gsoc | 18:18 |
| kblin | that's more one of these "next year" features | 18:18 |
| lh | kblin: agreed. | 18:19 |
| * lh adds to agenda for roadmap discussion | 18:19 | |
| kblin | anyway, bedtime for me | 18:22 |
| lh | kblin: rest well :) | 18:23 |
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| SRabbelier | kblin: g'night :) | 18:35 |
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| anothy_x | as a mentor or admin, is there a way to view which proposals, if any, a given mentor has indicated willingness to mentor for? or is the csv export my best bet? | 20:01 |
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| anothy_x | two questions about ranks: | 20:41 |
| anothy_x | 1) an admin-assigned rank overrides whatever the score is, correct? including in light of future score changes? | 20:41 |
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| anothy_x | 2) assuming some are ranked and some aren't, are the ranked ones lumped at top, with the rest fallling below, in what would otherwise be their order? | 20:42 |
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