Thursday, 2008-07-03

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* llnz ponders01:09
nashllnz: Did you see:
tpbTitle: C++ Frequently Questioned Answers (at
* llnz has a look01:18
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tansell~seen jphr01:40
tpbtansell: jphr was last seen in #tp 5 days, 13 hours, 16 minutes, and 45 seconds ago: <jphr> hehe, perhaps01:40
tansell~seen jotham01:42
tpbtansell: jotham was last seen in #tp 3 weeks, 2 days, 19 hours, and 49 seconds ago: <jotham> no mithro :\01:42
llnzso nash, i just starting another project in c++, what language would you suggest i do it in (and don't say "c" because its too complicated for that)01:47
nashllnz: I'm curious what project you are doing which is more complex then the linux kernel...01:48
nashllnz: Does it do i/o?01:49
llnzyes, lots01:49
nashIf it needs to be fast, do it in C, if it doesn't do it in a high level language.01:49
nashThen it's doesn't matter... i/o is slow01:49
nashDo it in python, or ruby01:50
nashor lua01:50
nashor scheme01:50
nashIf you know monads, do it in haskell01:50
nashor ocaml01:50
llnzwould love to use haskell, but can't get head around monads01:51
nashAnd the point of the link is... C++ is the most complex language around.. you should be solving complex problems, not complex languages01:51
llnzone think i don't like about python is that it's hard(-ish) to get a summary of the methods and fields01:52
tansellllnz, epydoc? or ipython01:53
tansellipython you just hit tab01:53
tansell>>> t = myobject()01:53
llnztansell: like a c++ (or even c) header01:53
tansell>>> t.<tab>01:53
tanselladd remove clean danceajig01:54
tansell>>> help(t.clean)01:54
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tansellThe clean method cleans the object with a shammy01:54
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nashllnz2: If the existance of C++ header file is the reason to you C++... you have problems01:55
* llnz suspects that the fqa is right about ide's01:56
nashllnz: It's right about a lot of things01:57
tansellthere are not many good python IDEs :(01:58
tanselleclipse pydev is almost useful01:58
* nash suggests "vim"01:58
nashor "emacs"01:58
tansellPython is much better when exploring interactively01:59
nashthe former is portable01:59
nashtansell: use the "zsh" plugin ;-)01:59
tanselli recommend ipython01:59
llnzi will probably use kdevelop (still)01:59
tansellthe dynamic nature of python is not great for IDE's being able to do sensible auto-complete02:01
llnzhumm... parts of this project is very io intensive and other parts very cpu intensive02:03
nashllnz: How CPU intensive?02:03
nashllnz: You could always use two languages02:04
llnzi'm starting with all the bits together, and will eventually split them apart (distrubuted)02:04
nashC for CPU intensive02:04
nashSomething else for rest of the program02:04
nashC saves massive amounts of data copy ;-)02:04
nashAnd insane inlining02:04
llnzactually, why don't I start with everything in python, then rewrite to C (or whatever) when necessary02:06
nasheven better02:06
nashThen chances are you'll never get to the "C" bit ;-)02:06
tansellPython is good because it is easy to extend with C02:08
nashtansell: As an aside... why are you tansell now...02:09
nashtansell: Most languages extend with C.02:09
nashSo it's hardly a python feature02:09
nasheven perl extends with C...02:09
tansellI'm on the work laptop :)02:10
nashAnd 'mithro' is a naughty word on the laptop?02:11
tansellnope but my personal laptop is logged in too02:11
nashkill it ;-)02:13
tansellit is sitting on my desk02:14
nashback shortly02:15
JLPgood morning everyone02:41
nashJLP: We need to upgrade your timezone ;-)02:46
JLPnash: piece of cake, i just need to move to australia or new zeland and it will be done :)02:47
nashI'm sure tim can help you find a flat..., we'll see you in 24 hours or so...02:49
nashI assume you have your toothbrush with you?02:49
mithrodamn didn't get the really good apartment I saw :(02:53
JLPbags packed, i'm ready to go :)02:54
mithroyou okay to live in the Google building under my desk?02:54
JLPyeah it's fine02:55
nashJLP: mithro will pick you up from the airport too02:57
nashJLP: Although he may then drop you 400km for civilisation...02:57
JLPs/for/from ?02:58
nashJLP: yes02:59
JLPah no problem, i've watched lots of survival stuf on national geographic and discovery and the like :)03:01
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mithroJLP: so you know all your dangerous and deadly animals03:55
JLPmithro: sure, it's almost like i could teach steve irwin :)03:59
mithrowell he didn't learn his lesson did he? ;)04:00
JLPhehe, anyways, have to go for a couple of hours04:00
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* JLP is back06:32
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mithrohey JLP07:10
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ezodllnz: ping?08:53
llnzezod: pong08:53
ezodi'm getting a sigpipe whenever tpadmin disconnects from tpserver (but only when logged in)08:54
ezodplanning on debugging it08:54
llnzsigpipe in tpserver or in tpadmin?08:55
llnzit's trying to write data to a socket that's closed08:55
llnzat a guess, it's the logsink08:55
ezodmy guess as well :)08:55
ezodi was thinking, would it be a good idea to trap sigpipes in tpserver to avoid such problems entirely?08:56
llnzcareful work is needed08:56
llnzi'm not sure that trapping sigpipe would sort it all out08:57
ezodoh, i still intend on fixing it properly08:57
llnzhave a look and see if it does08:57
ezodbut as a kind of additional measure (maybe it could spit out a log message so we can identify problems still)08:57
llnztrue, but can't log (directly) because it's not interrupt safe (reentrant)08:59
ezodoh right08:59
ezodwell, the problem is09:00
ezodLogger::getLogger()->debug("Stage3 : logged in");09:00
ezodmaybe i could just get rid of that09:01
ezodthen it will hit the readFrame right away, detect the disconnect, and close the socket09:01
llnzthat would work09:02
llnzthat sort of *very* low level debug message isn't that helpful once the thing is working09:03
ezodshall i still trap sigpipe?09:03
ezodotherwise one bad socket can crash the entire server09:03
ezodover a log message09:04
llnzit doesn't crash09:04
llnzsigpipe is ignored, iirc09:04
llnzhumm... maybe it isn't09:04
ezodi don't think so, because it crashes for me09:04
ezodignoring it might be a good idea09:05
ezodi don't really see any reason *not* to, since tpserver doesn't do any kind of command line piping09:05
llnzyeah, ignoring should be fine, as the send() returns an error anyway09:05
ezodok, you want me to put that in config branch or are you going to put it in master?09:06
llnzput it in config09:07
llnzi'll be pulling it in soon enough09:07
ezodthis stuff is basically ready, i'm just hammering it for bugs right now09:07
ezodthis is the last one i know of09:08
CIA-31aaron tpserver-cpp-config * r02fcd1820705 /tpserver/ (adminconnection.cpp admintcpconn.cpp main.cpp):10:03
CIA-31Removed some debug log messages on disconnect and ignore SIGPIPE.10:03
CIA-31This prevents the server from crashing when an admin client disconnects.10:03
ezod(and enables me to find a couple new bugs. yay!)10:03
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llnzlater all10:10
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CIA-31aaron tpadmin-cpp * r878969a4f1fa /tpadmin/ (session.cpp session.h): Reset commands to local set only when closing connection.12:51
CIA-31aaron libtpproto-cpp-config * re4ba7e23ef72 /tpproto/simpleeventloop.cpp: Removed disconnection debug message.13:24
CIA-31aaron tpadmin-cpp * r1c15d9b4c021 /tpadmin/ (consolelogger.cpp consolelogger.h session.cpp): Added debug command to toggle debug messages; off by default.13:35
CIA-31victor.ivri gencon-rfts-ai * rd383a059dfa1 /gencon/ ( clientLib/ utils/ Some restructuring as result of introducing the AI library.14:36
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CIA-31victor.ivri gencon-rfts-ai * r3cb2b7e354e5 / (README gencon/ gencon/clientLib/ Updated documentation.14:49
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CIA-31victor.ivri gencon-rfts-ai * re2b254a61f94 /gencon/ (4 files in 3 dirs): some very minor restructuring of client and robolib.16:33
CIA-31victor.ivri gencon-rfts-ai * r30ef8d9f711a /gencon/clientLib/ ( fixed a bug in probing orders.16:33
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Mithro-BBNot found a good irc client for the blackberry.18:54
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Mithro-BBIt gets pretty empty in here :(18:56
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CIA-31nuleren tpserver-cpp-tae * r346efed6f9fd /modules/games/tae/ ( fleetbuilder.cpp fleetbuilder.h tae.cpp tae.h):19:09
CIA-31Moved fleet creation to its own class. Restricted visibility of passenger19:09
CIA-31ships from other players.19:09
CIA-31nuleren tpserver-cpp-tae * rf5f2c3e1d6d0 /modules/games/tae/ (tae.cpp taeturn.cpp taeturn.h): Colonists fleets now automatically replinish each turn.19:09
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mithroAlklomion: brb20:13
Alklomioncool - resetting computer - brb20:19
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mithroAlklomion: ping?20:34
mithroso how has progress been?20:40
mithroI have not seen any commits recently, but I have not been watching carefully20:40
Alklomionyeah - haven't committed anything since last week - I should check that my work is in there that I've done. I have not touched coding this week.20:43
CIA-31alklomion /tmp/6qnbOiDUI0/FV1SgaVcQi-midp * r176cec4ea72f /src-test/net/thousandparsec/netlib/test/
CIA-31Current Test Version20:46
CIA-31via git-CVS emulator20:46
AlklomionGuess I hadn't committed it.20:47
mithroyou can see things which are not committed because they have a little red cross of similar on them20:47
mithroAction Items: Hard coded login application to be implemented and the test program should get to downloading objects - Due July 4th 200820:48
mithro              Initial investigation into open source libraries linked by Tim and any others Brendan can find; focusing on complexity and usability - Due July 4th 200820:48
mithrohow have you gone in meeting those goals?20:48
AlklomionMithro: I've had a look at J4ME and the Polish one you sent me, I like the look of J4ME, although I'm note sure on how easy or hard it will be to implement using these libraries.20:49
AlklomionI also found this link: which has a bunch of links that I'm currently sifting through, relating to different open source UI collections.20:49
tpbTitle: Java ME Open Source Software - UI Library (at
Alklomionmithro: hard coded login logs in but doesn't download yet - I've had bigpond troubles the last couple of days that prevented me from accessing a lot of sites20:51
mithrothat really shouldn't prevent you from getting the the test stuff working - do you have a local server setup yet?20:54
mithroAlklomion: lots on that page :)20:54
Alklomionmithro: yeah - local server - I mean i didn't have the Java API's saved locally of which i do now :)20:55
mithroAlklomion: that is a good plan :)21:02
Alklomionmithro: I need to leave - I believe we defined the action items for this coming friday at the last meeting: to explore some of these libraries and their ease-of-use in implementing a splash screen.21:03
mithroI think we need to prove that we can download an object ASAP too21:04
AlklomionMonday for that21:04
AlklomionFriday for the rest :)21:04
Alklomioncatch you later!21:04
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mithrohey Epyon21:13
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