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| Alklomion | right: so i go to authentication, put my key in there and | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| Alklomion | Unable to use key file "...\key" (ssh.com SSH-2 private key) | 00:02 |
| Alklomion | interesting, it works in ssh client, but not PuTTY | 00:06 |
| mithro | Alklomion: putty can no t read openssh or ssh.com ssh keys | 00:12 |
| mithro | you will need to load it into puttygen and convert it to putty format | 00:12 |
| mithro | I see that you have successfully logged in once | 00:15 |
| mithro | Mar 11 00:05:23 verbal sshd[10020]: Accepted publickey for alklomion from 124.189.245.12 port 45103 ssh2 | 00:15 |
| mithro | I know who you are and live close enough, so be nice on that server :P | 00:16 |
| Alklomion | haha | 00:17 |
| mithro | Alklomion: any luck? | 00:23 |
| Alklomion | connecting? nope | 00:33 |
| Alklomion | its rejecting my private key even if i load it in through puttygen | 00:33 |
| Alklomion | mithro: nevermind, i fixed it | 00:35 |
| mithro | Mar 11 00:35:13 verbal sshd[23310]: Accepted publickey for alklomion from 124.189.245.12 port 42834 ssh2 | 00:37 |
| mithro | Mar 11 00:35:14 verbal sshd[23317]: (pam_unix) session opened for user alklomion by alklomion(uid=0) | 00:37 |
| mithro | yay! :) | 00:37 |
| Alklomion | mithro: i've learned a valuable lesson about key management :) | 00:39 |
| mithro | Alklomion: cool | 00:39 |
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| mithro | heyo | 07:39 |
| mithro | anyone alive? | 07:39 |
| mithro | JLP: ping? | 07:42 |
| mithro | ~seen JLP | 07:42 |
| tpb | mithro: JLP was last seen in #tp 1 day, 1 hour, 8 minutes, and 8 seconds ago: * JLP has to go away for an hour or two :( | 07:42 |
| * mithro nudges JLP | 08:11 | |
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| JLP | mithro: pomg | 08:56 |
| JLP | ahoy * | 08:56 |
| mithro | JLP: how goes things? | 08:56 |
| mithro | IE the videos and the forums? | 08:56 |
| mithro | JLP: we really need to do some work on our ideas list too | 08:58 |
| JLP | mithro: with the forums i have stumbled upon one problem that when i tr to add sendmail export to the chain suddenly the connections with the webhosting gets droped and this doesn't get set | 08:58 |
| mithro | probably want to smtp ? | 08:58 |
| JLP | mithro: i'll start recording videos today | 08:58 |
| JLP | mithro: i think i got the same problem with smtp | 08:59 |
| mithro | dang | 08:59 |
| JLP | i tried to look at the error log in the webhoting control panel but it wasn't helpfull, mostly empty and only showing the usual about favicon vrap | 09:04 |
| mithro | we only have a couple of days to "finish up" the ideas page | 09:17 |
| mithro | March 12: Mentoring organization application deadline (12 noon PDT/19:00 UTC). | 09:17 |
| JLP | yeah i know, damn if only the days were longer | 09:18 |
| JLP | it looks like i will have to add some short stuff for Parsek too, have no time to work on it :( | 09:18 |
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| mithro | hey bddebian | 09:28 |
| bddebian | Hi mithro | 09:28 |
| mithro | bddebian: how goes everything? | 09:33 |
| bddebian | Pretty lame. You? | 09:35 |
| JLP | mithro: did you see this: http://www.last.fm/group/Thousand+Parsec | 09:43 |
| tpb | Title: Thousand Parsec Groups at Last.fm (at www.last.fm) | 09:43 |
| mithro | yes | 09:43 |
| mithro | what is last.fm? | 09:43 |
| JLP | it's a social website focusing on music | 09:44 |
| JLP | for example you can set amarok to report what music you are playing with it to last.fm | 09:44 |
| mithro | sounds dangerous :P | 09:45 |
| JLP | this creates a database of what you listen the most and in this way you can find other people with similar taste in music and maybe discover new artists | 09:45 |
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| CIA-12 | mithro web * re87b22987e6f /dev/documents/protocol4.php: Added metaserver anchor. | 10:19 |
| mithro | have to be careful you don't listen to something embarrassing and it starts suggesting Madonna :P | 10:19 |
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| mithro | JLP: can you tell me what you think of my updates to the ideas page? | 10:38 |
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| JLP | mithro: will look | 10:44 |
| mithro | JLP: we need to improve the Ruleset section | 10:53 |
| mithro | as that is our primary focus | 10:53 |
| JLP | mithro: like the paddings at the top, was going to do that myself but forgot to write it down on my todo list and forgot about it then | 11:05 |
| mithro | JLP: i'm also investigating Jive Forums | 11:07 |
| mithro | well I'm off to bed | 11:08 |
| JLP | mithro: good night | 11:10 |
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| JLP | llnz: hey | 17:16 |
| llnz | hi JLP | 17:16 |
| * llnz is home again | 17:26 | |
| JLP | llnz: hope the travel was all smooth | 17:29 |
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| JLP | oh yay, i think the mail from forums just arrived to mailing lists | 17:56 |
| JLP | hm it is about one hour late, so i thought it still wasn't working | 17:59 |
| tpb | disconnected from worldforge: Ping sent at 2008-03-11T18:02:11 not replied to. | 18:04 |
| mithro | JLP: oh cool | 18:10 |
| mithro | JLP: was that sent using sendmail? | 18:11 |
| mithro | JLP: as if so, it was probably greylisted | 18:11 |
| JLP | mithro: nope, sendmail didn't work, people from siteground tried several combinations of php and other things | 18:13 |
| mithro | hrm... | 18:14 |
| JLP | mithro: in the end it looks like the only thing wotking is sending from smtp local to forums | 18:14 |
| mithro | JLP: should I alias thousan3 somewhere? | 18:14 |
| mithro | I forwarded you the emails I go | 18:14 |
| mithro | s/go/got | 18:14 |
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| JLafont | allo | 18:15 |
| JLP | mithro: i think it would be best to forward them to [email protected] | 18:16 |
| mithro | JLP: i'll forward to you and [email protected] for the moment | 18:16 |
| JLP | JLafont: ahoy | 18:16 |
| JLafont | JLP: How is it going? | 18:17 |
| JLP | JLafont: for the last few days i was trying to connect our forums under construction to our mailing lists (via M2F) | 18:17 |
| JLP | JLafont: it looks like it is finally starting to work | 18:18 |
| mithro | JLafont: how goes your GSoC proposal? | 18:18 |
| JLafont | JLP: Awesome | 18:18 |
| JLafont | mithro: Its going. I tried to play RFTS on DosBox...... not being able to use a mouse is really driving me crazy | 18:19 |
| mithro | JLafont: I don't think RFTS has/had mouse support | 18:19 |
| mithro | I don't think mice where a common sight when RFTS was released :) | 18:20 |
| JLafont | mithro: I know. Its just painful to go through the menus sometimes | 18:20 |
| JLafont | I still have to figure out how to cancel out of a menu | 18:20 |
| mithro | JLafont: escape? | 18:21 |
| JLafont | Didn't work | 18:21 |
| JLafont | I tried that | 18:21 |
| JLP | JLafont: backspace | 18:24 |
| JLafont | nope | 18:24 |
| JLafont | backspace just goes through the menu | 18:25 |
| JLafont | The worst part is that when I push a button that is "illegal" It gives off an annoying beeping | 18:27 |
| JLafont | So I get to find out how wrong I am | 18:27 |
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| mithro | well I'm off to work | 18:28 |
| JLafont | lATER | 18:29 |
| JLafont | woops | 18:29 |
| JLafont | Later* | 18:29 |
| JLafont | I'll eventually get past the GUI and actually play for more than 10-20 minutes at a time | 18:30 |
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| * llnz wanders afk to think | 18:56 | |
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| mithro | hey xdotx | 19:22 |
| mithro | hey llnz | 19:22 |
| mithro | llnz: could you put some time into improving and fleshing out the tpserver-cpp ideas? | 19:22 |
| llnz | mithro: yeah, will try | 19:25 |
| llnz | there is a lot of freedom in most of them though | 19:25 |
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| mithro | llnz: yeah, but give some idea about what you are expecting | 19:28 |
| llnz | sure | 19:28 |
| JLafont | Mwuahahahaa | 19:37 |
| JLafont | http://www.allgame.com/cg/agg.dll?p=agg&sql=1:5984~T2 | 19:37 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/1fJp> (at www.allgame.com) | 19:37 |
| JLafont | Controls! | 19:37 |
| JLP | JLafont: hah wasn't so far from Delete :) | 19:39 |
| JLafont | JLP: Yeah, it figures it was the only one I didn't try | 19:40 |
| JLafont | Now I can finally get a decent idea of how it works | 19:41 |
| xdotx | llnz: btw, i don't like the way Object::getParameter is generally used | 19:45 |
| llnz | ok, suggestions? | 19:45 |
| xdotx | llnz: eg, ((OrderQueueObjectParam*)(obj->getParameter(3,1))) | 19:46 |
| xdotx | llnz: i'm working on something right now | 19:46 |
| xdotx | wanted to what your opinion on it's current functionality was | 19:46 |
| mithro | xdotx: ug, that is a nasty piece of code :) | 19:53 |
| llnz | mithro: that is what the various ObjectBehaviour classes do to get the data from the IGObject objects | 19:55 |
| llnz | the numbers at the end could be #defined, or consts | 19:56 |
| xdotx | llnz: but the problem is they couldn't be! | 19:56 |
| llnz | and the cast could be C++-ified, but other than that? I'm look forward to seeing | 19:57 |
| mithro | typedefed enums? | 19:57 |
| llnz | xdotx: really? | 19:57 |
| xdotx | llnz: knowing the implementation of how the numbers are generated is the only way to determine them | 19:57 |
| llnz | true | 19:57 |
| xdotx | llnz: i was thinking something along the lines of when you create the group desc you get the pair of ids back. then you need a way to communicate those to whoever needs them (mapped to a param name?). | 19:59 |
| xdotx | then you could do a template convinence function that takes an object and a pair of ideas and gets the param and returns as a dynamic_cast | 20:00 |
| xdotx | convenience* | 20:00 |
| llnz | the templated convenience method could be added now, i guess | 20:05 |
| llnz | humm... | 20:05 |
| xdotx | llnz: but that's just the icing | 20:05 |
| llnz | true | 20:06 |
| llnz | that was the best i could come up with at the time | 20:06 |
| xdotx | (and better yet it could boost::polymorphic_downcast) | 20:06 |
| xdotx | llnz: it's a tricky problem/situation | 20:07 |
| llnz | i'm open to suggestions to redesign the Object/ObjectBehaviour | 20:07 |
| xdotx | llnz: i quite like the concept. i'll take some time to get my head around all of it and see if i can come up with something | 20:08 |
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| xdotx | llnz: if you have a static const ObjectParamType with a standard name in each ObjectParam you could clean up that syntax with a template that looks up the Id based on type | 20:29 |
| mithro | llnz: we need to add some description about the Summer of Code | 20:33 |
| * llnz is still catching up and needs to look at the ideas for programmers page | 20:34 | |
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| mithro | xdotx: you have a link to the documentation for the boost downcast thing | 20:34 |
| mithro | I don't see anything on google | 20:35 |
| xdotx | http://www.boost.org/libs/conversion/cast.htm | 20:36 |
| tpb | Title: Header boost/cast.hpp Documentation (at www.boost.org) | 20:36 |
| xdotx | mithro: boost::polymorphic_downcast catches more logic errors and is faster than a traditional dynamic_cast | 20:37 |
| mithro | xdotx: cool, it still uses RTTI though? | 20:37 |
| xdotx | mithro: iirc, it just asserts the dynamic_cast != NULL and returns a static_cast | 20:37 |
| xdotx | because of that assert though, it's only valid on pointers (not really a big limitation) | 20:38 |
| mithro | The polymorphic_downcast template retains the efficiency of static_cast for non-debug compilations, but for debug compilations adds safety via an assert() that a dynamic_cast succeeds. | 20:38 |
| xdotx | yep | 20:38 |
| mithro | when can a static_cast fail!? | 20:39 |
| xdotx | mithro: also because of the way it's setup, it will catch logic errors in case you try to cast a non-polymorphic type | 20:39 |
| mithro | I thought C++ wouldn't let you use a static_cast where the casting can't be guaranteed | 20:39 |
| xdotx | it can "fail" is the cast is invalid | 20:39 |
| xdotx | mithro: pointers | 20:40 |
| mithro | xdotx: damn, C++ should be able to handle that | 20:40 |
| xdotx | mithro: it can - dynamic_cast is for that | 20:40 |
| mithro | xdotx: well then you shouldn't be able to static_cast pointers then | 20:41 |
| xdotx | mithro: well i think it makes sense, but it's left in there for backwards compatibility too (dynamic cast was added later because static_cast can be unsafe) | 20:42 |
| mithro | xdotx: and in most cases there is enough information at compile time to say if a static_cast (even with pointers) will work | 20:44 |
| xdotx | mithro: not really. if you have a pointer to a base and you want to cast to a derived.. that's pure rtti | 20:45 |
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| mithro | xdotx: yes, hence you *can not* us a static_cast and have too use a dynamic_cast | 20:45 |
| mithro | s/us/use/ | 20:45 |
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| xdotx | mithro: hmm. but what if the type is not polymorphic? shouldn't you still be able to cast between pointers? | 20:47 |
| xdotx | mithro: us C++ers like our power and flexibility, saying you have to use the extra-safe version wouldn't go over well | 20:48 |
| mithro | xdotx: if you want to be non-safe you use reinterperate_cast | 20:49 |
| xdotx | mithro: consider this: you have a polymorphic, derived pointer and you know that you want the base's functionality only. a dynamic_cast doesn't make sense here since you're up-casting. is a static_cast not most appropriate? | 20:50 |
| mithro | if you are up-casting (as in a child-class to a parent-class) then a static_cast is safe and that can be checked at compile time | 20:51 |
| mithro | as the compiler knows that the class relationship | 20:52 |
| * xdotx nods | 20:52 | |
| mithro | so you can use static_cast | 20:52 |
| mithro | with downcasting you really have to use dynamic_cast | 20:53 |
| mithro | and check that the return value is not-null | 20:53 |
| xdotx | technically with a downcast you should check that the pointer is the same. | 20:54 |
| xdotx | if you're cross-casting then the pointer may change (but be non-null) | 20:55 |
| mithro | xdotx: yeah | 20:56 |
| xdotx | mithro: so.. static_cast for pointers is still useful, if you're sure you don't need the run-time check. | 20:56 |
| xdotx | mithro: and better than a reinterpret_cast because you still get some compile time sanity check | 20:57 |
| mithro | xdotx: when is that possible? When you impliment your own crappy RTTI and hence get crashes | 20:57 |
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| xdotx | mithro: or.. for example, when you want to cast to a const& | 20:58 |
| xdotx | mithro: to cast const-ness onto something you static_cast | 20:58 |
| mithro | xdotx: but again, that should be safe and checked at compile time | 20:58 |
| mithro | (and never fail) | 20:58 |
| xdotx | mithro: right, but only with a static_cast? | 20:59 |
| mithro | ? | 20:59 |
| * mithro 's argument was that static_cast should never fail | 20:59 | |
| mithro | hello pfo | 20:59 |
| mithro | you new here? | 20:59 |
| mithro | and the compiler shouldn't let you use static_cast where it could fail (such as in down-casting) | 21:00 |
| pfo | just wanted to see what chan #tp is :) | 21:00 |
| mithro | pfo: It's the project channel for Thousand Parsec - http://www.thousandparsec.net/ | 21:00 |
| tpb | Title: Thousand Parsec : News (at www.thousandparsec.net) | 21:00 |
| pfo | yeah, got that. | 21:01 |
| pfo | thx. | 21:01 |
| xdotx | mithro: hmm. at the verry least it's left in for speed and backwards compatibility | 21:01 |
| pfo | did u guys submit your gsoc application already? | 21:01 |
| xdotx | very, too | 21:01 |
| mithro | pfo: yes | 21:02 |
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| mithro | xdotx: hrm... look at this... | 21:02 |
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| pfo | mithro: good luck for you guys! | 21:03 |
| mithro | pfo: thanks | 21:04 |
| pfo | bye! | 21:07 |
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| mithro | xdotx: http://pastebin.ca/939087 :/ | 21:08 |
| tpb | Title: general pastebin - mithro - post number 939087 (at pastebin.ca) | 21:08 |
| xdotx | mithro: eh, but that's fast and static_cast must support the legacy codes | 21:12 |
| mithro | xdotx: so we need a "safe_static_cast" then | 21:13 |
| mithro | one which the compile will only let you use in cases where it is safe to be used | 21:13 |
| xdotx | hmm. i see the argument for it.. but if you know enough to use a safe_static_cast then you probably know when it's safe to use? more cast operators could get more confusing too | 21:15 |
| mithro | xdotx: but the above could be an accident | 21:15 |
| mithro | and it won't bite me in the arse until the code is deployed on 100,000 machines :/ | 21:15 |
| mithro | if you are going to have a typed language - you should use it to it's full extent | 21:16 |
| xdotx | mithro: ionno. by "static_cast" you're saying "only do a compile time check" so you're admitting that if the types are run-time variable, then it's clearly not safe | 21:16 |
| xdotx | casting pointer to pointer is compile time OK | 21:17 |
| xdotx | c++ is all about giving you the power. if that means you can use it wrong, dang, you used it wrong. | 21:18 |
| mithro | xdotx: it all comes about because pointers are insane in C++ - casting from any pointer to any pointer is compile time OK <- that should not be the case | 21:19 |
| xdotx | hmmmmm. fair enough. | 21:22 |
| xdotx | mithro: aside from the fact that my code compiles slow enough as is, i think you've convinced me | 21:22 |
| mithro | xdotx: it would be trivial for the compiler to check that pointer to pointer casts are valid it knows this is a pointer to a type A or a type B | 21:23 |
| xdotx | a can't-fail static_cast operator would be useful | 21:23 |
| mithro | and it knows the relationship between type A and type B | 21:23 |
| xdotx | mithro: the only thing is afaik, there will be static_casts that could be unsafe, but aren't and the programmer can deduce those where the compiler can't | 21:24 |
| mithro | xdotx: and that is what reinteperate_cast is for, "I know what I'm doing, trust me" | 21:25 |
| xdotx | mithro: static_cast is still more valuable in that case because you're still preventing ~some~ mistakes | 21:26 |
| mithro | so, what mistakes does it prevent? | 21:26 |
| mithro | as I cant think of any? | 21:27 |
| xdotx | mithro: B* b; A* a = &b; static_cast<B>(a); // oops! meant B* | 21:27 |
| mithro | xdotx: umm, test.cpp:16: error: invalid cast from type ‘A*’ to type ‘B’ <- even with a reint cast | 21:30 |
| xdotx | mm. oh yeah | 21:31 |
| xdotx | reint does that check | 21:31 |
| xdotx | hmm... i'm convinced there's something else there that static_cast could do in a looks-potentially unsafe setting that reinterpret won't | 21:33 |
| xdotx | but i'm not going to read any standards to find out :P | 21:34 |
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| mithro | anyway off to lunch | 21:43 |
| mithro | bblr | 21:43 |
| mithro | xdotx: need feedback on how the client works for RFTS and some things which need priority | 21:43 |
| JLafont | I'd like to know too! | 21:47 |
| xdotx | mithro: i plan on fixing up RFTS some first so that i'm sure there's little/no problems on it's side | 21:48 |
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| mithro | xdotx: feel free to report problems that I can reproduce locally | 22:31 |
| mithro | ideas would be good too :) | 22:31 |
| * xdotx nods | 22:37 | |
| xdotx | i'm out. back in a few hours | 22:37 |
| mithro | I'm looking to do a 0.3.1 over easter | 22:55 |
| llnz | bbl | 22:56 |
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| Ohm | mithro: over the last week, how much code in tpclient-pywx has changed? | 23:16 |
| mithro | dunno | 23:39 |
| mithro | since the 4th | 23:46 |
| mithro | tim@vaio:~/oss/tp/tpclient-pywx$ git diff --shortstat cce8ed3e60accb76bd72be81d0752008e68df4ef | 23:46 |
| mithro | 18 files changed, 772 insertions(+), 496 deletions(-) | 23:46 |
| mithro | Ohm: which is pretty good | 23:53 |
| mithro | Interesting | 23:55 |
| mithro | tim@vaio:~/oss/tp/tpclient-pywx$ git diff --shortstat TPCLIENT_PYWX_0_2_99 | 23:55 |
| mithro | 154 files changed, 41615 insertions(+), 5863 deletions(-) | 23:55 |
| mithro | of course you have to remove this stuff | 23:59 |
| mithro | tim@vaio:~/oss/tp/tpclient-pywx$ git diff --shortstat TPCLIENT_PYWX_0_2_99 ./windows/xrc | 23:59 |
| mithro | 43 files changed, 18654 insertions(+), 0 deletions(-) | 23:59 |
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