Monday, 2007-09-17

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tuandatco ai o day hok00:29
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mithroyay, I am going to SanFran!03:33
mithro~seen thorpe703:34
tpbmithro: thorpe7 was last seen in #tp 1 week, 2 days, 22 hours, 24 minutes, and 22 seconds ago: <thorpe7> excellent - would hate to think you would go all the way to San Fran and not see the sights03:34
mithrowhere was Fro located again?03:47
mithroxdotx: ping?03:47
xdotxmithro: pong03:57
xdotxmithro: just read the email about you and lee comin' to SF03:59
mithroxdotx: how have you been?03:59
mithroxdotx: yeah, it is pretty cool03:59
xdotxmithro: i'm alright. tryin' to get a good start on this year's game for school04:02
mithroxdotx: couldn't convince the school to do something with Thousand Parsec? :P04:03
mithrowe still need a 3d client :P04:03
xdotxmithro: heh, i wish. we make our own games from scratch each year04:03
xdotxi was thinking about a 3d client for TP. i'm doing the graphics engine for my game this year04:04
mithroug, why not use a pre-built graphics engine?04:04
mithroIE Ogre?04:04
xdotx1) educational, and 2) speed04:04
mithroxdotx: you think you are smarter then some of the best 3d programmers OSS has to offer? ;)04:05
xdotxmithro: no, but that doesn't mean i can't write one that's better for my specific application ;)04:05
* mithro is very much in favour of using "middleware"04:06
xdotxi am too, but it prevents learning04:08
mithromy argument is that with open source it doesn't, because when the middleware doesn't meet your needs you can modify it :)04:09
xdotxit's better to know how to make a graphics engine, than to know to use a specific one04:09
xdotxand i want a job... "check out what ~my~ graphics engine can do" sounds a lot better than "check out what i found on the internet and modded but couldn't do myself"04:13
mithroxdotx: check out this scenegraph library which increases the speed of ogre3d 400% is more impressive then "look at my crappy engine which doesn't even support pixel shaders" in my opinion04:14
xdotxmithro: oh, there will be shaders ;p04:14
mithroxdotx: where are you located again? any chance we could meet in person?04:15
xdotxSeattle.. probably 5+ hour drive north04:16
mithroso is meeting us worth a 10 hour round trip? :P04:16
* mithro is learning a lot about US geography04:17
xdotxheh, depends on how much time you have to kill04:17
mithroI'm in San Fran for about 7 days04:17
xdotxi'll probably be making a trip down to SF, but not until Feb04:18
xdotxer, no. beginning of March04:19
mithrogot to run now04:21
xdotxi gotta sleep. early morning classes/meeting04:26
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llnzlater all07:14
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mithro~seen lln08:26
tpbmithro: I have not seen lln.08:26
mithro~seen llnz08:26
tpbmithro: llnz was last seen in #tp 1 hour, 11 minutes, and 15 seconds ago: <llnz> later all08:26
mithroopps missed him08:26
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mithro~seen llnz19:58
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mithronash: I now see why you don't like C++ :P20:06
nashmithro: ?20:06
nashYou have to maintain some I see?20:07
nashIt's a great language to write... I just hate having to work out if it's the * the +, the space the paranthesis, the [] or some other random operator that is causing the crash in one of 7 virtual inherited classes20:07
mithroatleast in C it is easy to see where you shot yourself in the foot20:08
nashAt the end of the day, my only complaint about C++ is it is a absolute bitch to maintain.  It is so easy to write "write-only" code it's not funny20:10
jothamguys blog yesterday had this:20:13
jotham CPP Evil20:13
jothamPossibly the most incomprehensible line of code I have ever written.20:13
jotham#define ALLOCATE_ENGINE_OBJECT(type) reinterpret_cast<Engine##type##Object*>(\20:13
jotham      world.allocate<Engine##type##Object>()->init_object(\20:13
jotham         type##Pool.allocate<Engine##type##Data>()))20:13
jothamposted by John Connors @ 11:47 PM20:14
mithrothat isn't that bad :P20:14
jothamhe's a lisp programmer20:14
mithrothe question is why are you doing a reinterpret_cast in the first place?20:15
mithroit normally means you are doing something very wrong20:15
nashWhat is a reinterpret_cast?20:15
nashjotham: The bit that really strikes me as evil is all the globals it accesses... work, <type>##Pool20:16
mithroa reinterpret_cast allows you to convert from any type to another type20:17
mithrono matter the relationship20:18
nashmithro: so (foo*)(void*)obj20:18
nashor (void*)obj in C terms20:18
mithronash: pretty much20:28
nashHow many cast types does C++ have these days?20:31
jotham3 or 420:33
* nash notes every argument against C++ was contained in that one answer... 4 I think... maybe 3... and the C one... 20:33
mithrostatic_cast, dynamic_cast, const_cast, reinterpret_cast20:33
mithronash: but C is much more weekly typed then C++20:33
* jotham isn't a C++ fan but has used it a bit20:34
jothami am going to develop a working relationship with C when i get some time20:34
jothami want to use it to write some python extensions20:34
jothamtrying to learn OO concepts *and* C++ at the same time was a bit of a disaster20:34
jothamthat was a few years ago20:35
nashjotham: It's bad enough with java + OO20:35
mithroI laugh in Java's general direction20:35
nashmithro: Not really... proof - I can still cast anything to a void*20:35
nashI know the theory it is safer... but at the end of the day... bah20:37
mithronash: guess so, I have yet to see the need for a void* in C++20:37
nashmithro: To get round all the crap people have shoved into a class ;-)20:38
EpyonUse FreePascal xP21:43
nashEpyon: Yes... great idea - guaranteed no-one can read it ;-)21:53
nashAnd hence make sure no one will break your code with such things as patches21:53
nashAnyway... back soon... doubling my systems RAM... and it doesn't support hot swap memory - that I know off21:53
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mithronash: running better?22:23
nashYeah... enligtenment is now working ;-)22:24
nashSo I have proper dual head set up22:24
mithroI have dual head at work now, so I should be able to test the problems you where having with tpclient-pywx22:24
nashYou'll see them really quickly22:25
mithromaybe it's your silly window manager ;)22:30
nashmithro: I had the problem with both metacity and enlightenment22:32
* nash notes he should try sawfish... then he can say it doesn't work with all of the gnome window managers22:32
mithronash: I was just being facicous22:32
nashmithro: I was just slamming you down ;-)22:33
mithrocompiz sadly doesn't do multiple monitors very well, so I'm back to using metacity22:34
nashmithro: compiz doesn't do one monitor very well22:34
mithroit was working fine for me22:34
* nash just turned on bling for e... see how it goes22:39
nashmithro: Everyone I've seen use compiz has tuned it off after a week.22:39
nashGenerally citing the fact it kept dieing for htem22:40
mithroI only had compiz die once for the ~1 week I was using it22:40
nashNot too bad22:40
nashMuch better then most I've heard22:41
mithroit's getting a lot better these days22:41
mithroif you don't check the "experimental" plugins :P22:41

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