Friday, 2007-03-30

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IwanowitchMeh, I'm not going to think too much about it now anymore, I can barely keep my eyes open... I'll be getting back at you one of the next days.00:12
IwanowitchThough, nash, it's not very practical that you live on the opposite side of the world.00:12
nashIwanowitch:  Well most of the TP people are down here...00:13
IwanowitchWell, the hard way works too :)00:14
nashWhat - you are moving down here?00:15
IwanowitchHmm, no, not that hard.00:16
IwanowitchI was thinking about staying awake late and waking up early - that's hard enough :P00:16
nashThere is enough overlap time00:17
nashJust go to bed earlier, and talk your morning, our evening00:17
IwanowitchYep, should be possible.00:18
IwanowitchAnyway, I'm off now, I have classes to attend tomorrow and I'd better be awake. :)00:19
nashsleep well00:20
IwanowitchSee you.00:20
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nashheyo mithro01:35
mithromorning nash01:36
nashLooked AI-wards yet?01:37
mithronot really01:38
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mithrono time yet01:54
* brlcad notes he and mithro should probably discuss a couple competiting proposals at some point01:59
brlcad(not now, but soon) ;)01:59
mithrocompeting proposals?01:59
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nashthis sound interesting...02:02
nashTwo proposals enter... one proposal leaves...02:03
* mithro is a bit confused02:04
mithrowhich I know happens quite a lot ;)02:04
* nash wonders if brlcad was here just to confuse you02:08
brlcadmithro: odd, you should see the same notifications of conflict02:08
brlcadyou have several applications with mentor's assigned (presumably implying high interest on your behalf)02:09
mithrobrlcad: checking now02:09
mithrowe didn't have any a day ago02:09
nashbrlcad: Where do they appear?02:09
brlcadmithro: i've only marked one so far (a couple days ago)02:09
brlcadnash: in big red bold letters on their application02:09
brlcadi suppose now is a good a time as any to go over at least one of them02:10
mithrobrlcad: not on the overview page?02:10
brlcadyou have to visit the individual02:10
mithroahh huh!02:11
nashirritating (lack of interface)02:11
brlcadthere's at least one other I haven't marked yet since I wanted to contact you guys first02:11
brlcadbut the other, Kornel's in particular is one worth discussing02:12
mithrobrlcad: you have pmsg's02:12
nashmithro: Can you message brlcad the location of the bat cave?02:12
mithronash: already done :P02:12
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nashEpyon: You there?02:56
brlcadis there a specific os x maintainer for tp?03:07
brlcadwow, huge binary03:08
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mithrobrlcad: blame mac, windows it's only 7mb and linux it's under 1mb!03:19
brlcadsomething is wrong with the application bundle too03:20
brlcaddoesn't run if it's installed03:21
brlcadruns from the dmg, though .. probably some embedded path issue03:21
mithrolousy fat binaries03:22
brlcadactually, it's showing about 100MB are in the Resources, not the binaries or even the unstripped (30MB) frameworks/dylibs03:22
brlcadahh, ./Contents/Resources/lib/python2.5/lib-dynload is the predominant culprit03:26
brlcadunstripped universal binaries03:26
mithrowe could use a mac packager :P03:26
* brlcad sees that :)03:27
* brlcad would have wanted to steal the rtfs splash screen ship :)03:27
brlcadat least for the dmg or something03:27
* brlcad tries to find an original on-line somewhere03:28
mithroI borrowed my sisters PPC G4 to do the packaging03:29
tpb<> (at
brlcadnot quite as good as the vga one :)
tpb<> (at
brlcadthere we go...
jothamholy that spaceship is sexy03:31
tpb<> (at
brlcadsorry for the spammage, I get a little excited03:31
brlcadthat ship sucked me into sci fi at a rather young age, reading books, drawing/art pics, programming, ...03:32
mithrobrlcad: did you get a background in the DMG?03:33
brlcadmithro: yes, looked good03:33
jothamorganic ships are so sexy03:33
jothamthe ships in eve are cool (online space mmo)03:33
jothami approve of the design03:33
mithrobrlcad: I do notice that the box specifically labeled "Not copy protected"03:33
brlcadheh, that it does, though that phrase meant something rather different back then03:35
mithrobrlcad: I wonder what it ment?03:35
brlcadit means the floppies didn't have some stupid form of copy protection on them03:35
brlcadthat used to be a buying consideration.. could you make copies of the floppies (to give to your friends, to make a backup, etc)03:36
nashit means you could use the disk more then 50% of the time03:36
mithros/floppies/cd or dvd/ and you get the same meaning now right?03:36
brlcaddepends what meaning you gathered, but yeah03:37
brlcadit doesn't mean no copyright protection03:37
brlcadjust you're not drm-ish prevented03:37
brlcadthough the "drm" back then was pretty weak too, usually a quick hex editing and you could get past most disks03:37
brlcadcept for the rare few that actually burnt bad sectors onto their disks and would check for them03:38
nashAs opposed to today ssophisticated techniques where the burn bad sectors into the CD and hope your player doesn't check for them03:39
brlcadI've only seen one app/disk so far where I couldn't perform a raw disk copy, that being apple's final cut pro flagship03:41
brlcadbut that was a case where the seat license is multiple k and they had complete knowledge of their hardware extents03:41
mithroi think todays sophisticated techniques are to install a root-kit on your computer and then do other bad stuff :P03:42
brlcadmost just do license server or hardware dongles now for the pricier items03:42
nashmithro: You mean threaten your ISP, then call a lawyer...03:42
mithrobrlcad: I havn't seen a hardware dongle in years03:43
brlcadmithro: ahh, I see them all the time with various CAD/CAM vendors03:43
brlcadusually stuff that presses a 10k+ per-seat license03:43
brlcadand it's usually optional, with there being a floating license server option available too (at a higher price)03:44
nashCan't say I've seen one... but I think every single piece of software on this computer (except stars!) is open source.. and I work with embedded devices03:44
nashSo I'm not the best example ;-)03:45
brlcadyeah, different market03:45
brlcadmy guess would be it's probably limited to computing for "industrial" purposes in general, not even just general commercial03:45
nashbrlcad: Yes ;-)03:46
* brlcad spanks someone for naming a Mac gui binary "tpclient-pywx"03:46
mithroi've mainly seen floating license stuff03:47
brlcadhm, and I don't quite see why the .app doesn't like your icon declaration .. shows up generic even though at a glance the Info.plist "seems" okay03:48
nashIs the image format acceptable?03:49
brlcadimage format?03:49
brlcadoh, the .icns?  that part opens just fine03:50
* nash is just guessing - he knows bugger all about mac at that layer03:52
brlcadyeah, it's a bit bizarre .. I am pretty familiar with it, but I don't even see what's wrong .. would have to build up the .app myself to debug it03:55
brlcadand apparently the system python framework is too old?  i see python seems to be fully embedded in the binary03:56
brlcad(not critiqueing at all fwiw .. I know it's a work in progres, need more devs, etc.. good stuff) ;)03:56
nashbrlcad: There is no full time mac developer03:59
nashSo that is part of the problem03:59
* brlcad nods03:59
nashIf you know anyone who may be interested, point them our way03:59
brlcadwill do!03:59
nashYou owe us 2 developers now after all ;-)03:59
brlcadproviding a mac client that "just worked" and worked well was one of the specific feature/changes that expanded bz's visibility by a noticeable amount (about 4 years ago now)04:01
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nashbrlcad: To be frank TP needs a bit of 'just work' magic on all platforms04:06
mithrobrlcad: it's quite hard, because I'm the only real developer on tpclient-pywx and I don't even have perminate access to a mac04:07
* brlcad nods04:09
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nashheyo fizzleboink04:16
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* nash pokes Epyon again...05:35
* jotham pokes Epyon with an additional poker05:48
nashThe bastard is probably sleeping or some such excuse05:52
nashLike the other day when he claimed he was going to 'eat'05:52
nashwhatever that is...05:52
jothamtransformation of food into energy is such a myth05:53
jothamdamn conspiracy theorists05:53
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dmpayton"eat"? what is this you speak of? Does it have to do with that "food" stuff?06:11
jothami just had 3 beers06:11
jothami'm repleat06:11
dmpaytonMmmm, beer.06:12
dmpaytonI could use a beer or six. Packing is hard work.06:13
nashthat's for sure06:13
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nashOh well - I'm off.06:44
nashTalk to all tomorrow06:44
mithroarg, it's been one of those days06:44
* mithro heads off06:45
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Ford_PrefectHello to all. Can someone please outline the process to get the client from darcs working?07:00
Ford_PrefectI get a missing tp.netlib and tp.client and there is no tp/ subdirectory07:00
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CIA-17Lee Begg <[email protected]> * documents/protocol/protocol.xml : Added Create Account to protocol xml10:22
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EpyonMornin' all ;)10:33
llnzhi Epyon, dmpayton10:37
dmpaytonHow's it going, llnz?10:38
llnznot too bad, you?10:38
dmpaytonNot bad10:38
dmpaytonThinkin' about going to bed10:38
dmpaytonthough I should continue packing10:38
dmpaytonGot my books packed, got my gaming systems packed... next is movies and misc... clothes are last.10:43
dmpaytonI hate moving.10:43
llnzyeah, moving isn't the best fun (but unpacking is cool)10:43
dmpaytonPacking the books has been good, though10:44
dmpaytonforces me to actually look at what books I have and remind me of what I still need to read10:44
dmpaytonMy books are probably 50% tech/programming, 45% Tolkien, and 5% misc.10:45
dmpaytonand I still have maybe 1/3rd of all of them to read10:45
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dmpaytonFly away, pigeon! To a better place you should go!11:00
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mithrohowdy people12:05
Epyonyo :)12:07
CIA-17Lee Begg <[email protected]> * documents/ (54 files in 4 dirs): Added the last tp03 frame types12:09
CIA-17Lee Begg <[email protected]> * documents/protocol/protocol.xml : Added missing feature id for account creation12:11
llnzthat covers all of tp0312:13
llnzi think12:14
llnzhi mithro12:17
llnzfinished the protocol.xml for tp03, i think12:17
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llnzi guess tomrrow i will start making protocol.xml for tp0412:31
llnzmithro: do you want me to save the current (tp03) version of protocol.xml?12:43
mithroguess so12:44
llnzmove protocol.xml to protocol3.xml, and then copy it to protocol.xml12:44
llnzgives protocol3.xml history12:45
* llnz ponders12:52
* llnz just does it, since mithro hasn't said anything12:54
CIA-17Lee Begg <[email protected]> * documents/protocol/ (protocol.xml protocol3.xml): Move protocol.xml to protocol3.xml to save the snapshot12:57
CIA-17Lee Begg <[email protected]> * documents/ (27 files in 7 dirs): Copied protocol3.xml to protocol.xml for tp04 work12:57
llnzi'll start on tp04 tomorrow (later today)13:01
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llnzlater all13:01
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brlcadinteresting xml docs -- what are they processed with for the website?13:35
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brlcadyeesh, both nash and mithro sign off.. boo hiss15:25
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