Monday, 2007-02-12

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jothamnash: i take it you are a CG programmer?00:01
nashNo... CG in this context?00:03
nashI program for embedded linux and other embedded OSes mostly00:03
jothamcomputer graphics00:03
nashWe specialise in a graphics toolkit which works with evas00:03
* nash wasn;'t sure if you meant Computer Games00:03
nashI do a bit of graphical optimisatiosn however00:03
jothamheh i didn't know comptuer game programmer was a proper field, it's either graphics, ai, networking, etc00:04
nashYou would be correct I suppose.00:05
jothami am just trying to figure out the best way to draw a capsule shape, i.e. 2 half circles either end of a rectangle00:05
nashProblem is, I have the artistic talent of a one-legged duck00:05
jothami am reasonably compitent at programming and asthetic things00:06
jothamdepending who you ask ;-)00:06
nashInkscape - draw a circle, add the appriopriate shadows and highlights, then add a cyclinder with the lists00:06
nashdup the circle in the appropriate places00:06
jothami meant algorithmicly heh00:06
jothami can draw one fine using half circles and a rectangle in whatever library00:07
nashDon't - prerender is much faster, unless you are using GL, and even then...00:07
jothamyeah i am prerendering, but i am prerendering in code00:07
nashWell... draw a circle, add the appropriate... ;-)00:07
jothamnevermind then...i was just curious as i am sure i can use pythons Numeric module to create a good filter for what i need00:08
jothamright now i am just using an object i made in photoshop saved as PNG00:08
nashMakes sense to me ;-)00:08
jothambut i don't know what the view is on dependance of library sprites in the file system00:08
nashHence do it as something like SVG which can be sent across the network, and can be scaled on the target device...00:10
jothamyeah i do a lot of flash work in my job, and have been looking at svg a bit, but it hasn't been suitable for a project yet00:10
jothambut i think vector graphics are an excellent thing00:11
jothamhave you seen amanith?00:11
jothamgoogle it, vector rasteriser that uses hardware00:12
jothamthere are python bindings for it, i am considering using it for another project00:12
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mithrohey people05:11
mithrojotham / nash: ping?05:11
mithrojotham: just reading scoll back now :)05:13
mithrojotham: feel free to require png files on the filesystem for the battleviewer if that is what you where concerned about05:13
jothamreason i haven't got any progress to show you is i haven't made a single laser beam i like05:14
mithrojotham: he he okay05:14
nashjotham: Make them x-ray lasers... so you don't need to see them ;-)05:15
mithrojotham: why not add a bunch of different ones and get other opionons?05:21
jothamwell i think i'm gonna have to draw them dynamically and then use the Numeric module to apply filters to them (Gaussian ect)05:22
jothami've experimented with rotating sprites but they look ugly as when you have to resize them to handle different distances between emitter and target05:22
jothami dunno, i'll get there - just know i am working on it =)05:22
jothami should have something tomorrow05:22
jothamand once i have the drawing method sorted we can play with variety05:22
mithrookay cool05:31
mithronash: how goes your entry? :P05:46
nashokay.  Haven't had much programming time recently - need to find a new place to live, internet issues... urr :-(  But making progress.05:46
jothamthat sucks, where do you live nash05:47
nashConcord (Sydney)05:47
mithronash: how are you talking to the server? are you planning on writing a libtpproto-c or just leaving it all in the client?05:59
nashIt's in the client as such for now06:00
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nashBasically when a message comes in, it pretty much gets thrown as an event into the application for the other bits to do what they like with it06:03
jothamhey mithro you said i should submit even my test scripts ?06:06
jothamif you want i can submit one i did when i was doing the numbers, it looks kinda cute06:06
mithrojotham: that would be good06:10
CIA-11[email protected] * battleviewer/ (background.png background.png damage animation test script06:14
CIA-11[email protected] * web/ (5 files in 2 dirs): New Helpful Links section in the competition page.06:16
mithronash: do you store a local copy of the universe?06:17
nashMost of it06:19
nashNeed to tweak how I update...06:19
nashat the moment each turn I'm just going "Give me everything"06:19
nashIs there a nice way of knowing when things have been destroyed BTW06:20
* nash files it under "performance issue"06:22
mithronash: no06:22
mithronash: you can use "get---ids" to find out all the ideas of existing objects06:23
nashokay.  So basically I need to get list of all objects, and delete any which have been removed06:23
nashYeah.  Painful...06:23
mithronash: TP04 will fix this problem06:23
* nash notes the server needs to send out a new turn message with a list of "things changed" or something06:23
nashWhen will that be released?06:23
nashIs there a trial version I can use, and does the current darcs head cpp server support it?06:24
mithro* Difference support06:24
mithroThe Get ID's frames will have a "from" field added. This is a SInt6406:24
mithrowhich is the timestamp to get changes from. If it is -1 then it should06:24
mithrobe all objects.06:24
mithronothing supports it yet06:24
mithrowe have been to busy trying to get everything in order for the comp :)06:24
* nash updates FIXME to read: Will be fixed in tp0406:26
mithroI'm currently been redoing the starmap in tpclient-pywx-dev06:26
nashSo how do you detect deleted/destroyed objects using that API?06:26
mithroyou use get_xxx_ids to find out which ids have changed06:28
mithrothen you get the objects with that ids that have changed (and notice which ones have been destroyed)06:28
mithrobtw: most of the time turn generation will occur when clients are not connected06:28
mithrowhere as currently you have to get a list of ALL ids06:29
mithro(so if the universe has 10,000 objects you have to get 10,000 ids)06:29
tpbNew news from Another AI Competition Update.06:30
mithrowhere as with TP04 you'll only need to get the objects which have changed06:32
nashSo basically I'm doing the right thing06:33
mithropretty muc06:33
* nash hates it when ugly == right06:33
mithrothere was a nicer solution, but it doesn't work with tpserver-cpp06:34
nashOrdered data?06:36
mithroyes - but that suffered from a problem with disappearing objects06:37
nashAnyway - I'm about to bail.06:41
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mithrollnz: ping?07:14
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jothama starfield is going to be pretty cpu intensive eh08:41
jothamit's a shame, my C++ one uses next to know CPU08:41
jothamhey mithro what's the deal with using other peoples code09:34
jothamor someone with better math knowledge could write a guassian blur using Numeric python09:38
mithrojotham: as long as it has a GPL compatible license and is properly documented09:41
jothamit's LGPL09:41
mithrothats fine then09:42
jothamproblem is, it's for PIL so i'd have to hack it up to use it without pil, and still i'd have to do it with boost python or something09:42
jothamand i don't know anything about licensing stuff, maybe it's a waste of time, i'll use regular blur and see how it goes09:42
mithroit's C++?09:42
jothambut as a PIL plugin09:42
mithrobasicly I would prefer a pure python solution for the basic stuff, you can add C++/PyRex/C stuff once we have a working solution09:43
jothamsure thing09:43
mithroinfact you could rewrite it as a SDL C++ thing if you wanted - but first thing is to get something which works09:46
jothamyeah for sure09:46
jothamin my local copy of the darcs repo can i roll back a file to a previous state?09:50
mithroIE quick and dirty is definately okay for the moment09:50
mithrodarcs revert09:50
mithro(if you havn't record the changes)09:50
mithroor darcs unrecord then darcs revert (if you havn't pushed)09:51
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mithro  revert        Revert to the recorded version09:52
mithrounrecord      Remove recorded patches without changing the working copy.09:53
mithrorollback      Record an inverse patch without changing the working directory.09:53
mithrolots of things you can do09:53
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llnzlater all10:43
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CIA-11[email protected] * battleviewer/ ( Laser test file. Work in progress. Nothing to see here.11:42
jothamoh well, least i got the line drawing code in and the blurring stuff sorted out, only need to blit the masks in and add some kind of perlin noise and we should have some ok looking laser beams11:43
jothammithro: i'd like to get a look at those explosion animations as i am going to move the tinting pulse effect to when the lasers hit the ship11:44
jothamso i'll want to add in the explosions when death occures11:44
jothameven if you just give me the sequence i can recreate them as a spritesheet and animate them that way11:45
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jothamok, well i'm going to bed, later11:59
jothamshame about the guassian, it removes hard edges, something a normal blur doesn't do12:00
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mithromorning people21:39
mithrowelp, off to uni21:44
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* nash waves21:56
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jothamhey mithro you alive?23:11
mithroam now, but a bit lagged23:11
jothamwhere can i get those explosions23:12
mithrodo you want the mng versions or the original PNG strips?23:12
jothampng strips, i'll (for now) just create a spritesheet out of them23:13
mithrookay, hold on23:14
tpb<> (at
tpb<> (at
mithroyou can use convert to get back png images23:18
jothamthey look nice23:21
jothamby use convert, you mean use image magick?23:22
mithroconvert abc.mng abc.png23:22
jothamyeah convert is part of the image magick suite23:22
jothamthat's all i was asking23:22
jothamif you meant that program23:22
mithroi wasn't sure :P23:22
jothambefore i started this i was writing a pygame tutorial23:24
jothampeople ask the same damn questions every day in #pygame23:24
jothamwhere did you get all the graphics from23:27
nashIt's a good question ;-)23:28
mithroi got these animations from a project called vegastrike - they are GPL so it's all fine23:29
mithromorning nas23:29
jothamdoesn't look like convert works for going back to png23:30
jothamunless there is an option i am missing23:30
jothamturning an 806k MNG into a 182 byte PNG = no good23:30
nashmithro: Tab complete doesn't work?  ;-)23:30
* nash is still confused over "GPL" with images ;-) In fact GPL and anything but code, and marked up documentation ;-)23:31
jothamhum wonder if there is a -split23:31
mithrojotham: it was working for me here23:31
jothamjust now?23:31
mithrojotham: which one are you trying to convert?23:32
jothamVersion: ImageMagick 6.2.4 11/24/06 Q16 http://www.imagemagick.org23:32
tpbTitle: ImageMagick: Convert, Edit, and Compose Images (at
mithroVersion: ImageMagick 6.2.4 11/01/06 Q16 http://www.imagemagick.org23:32
tpbTitle: ImageMagick: Convert, Edit, and Compose Images (at
jothambandcamp:14631$ convert orange.mng orange.png; ls -l orange.*23:32
jotham-rw-r--r-- 1 jotham jotham 824321 2007-02-13 12:21 orange.mng23:32
jotham-rw-r--r-- 1 jotham jotham    182 2007-02-13 12:27 orange.png23:32
mithroconvert should automatically split it when you go from a animation to single image format23:33
jothamworks with blue.mng23:33
mithrodunno what is up with the orange one23:34
jothamdamn it was the only one i wanted to use for now =)23:34
jothamso if my friend makes us a quick explosion for us to keep that's cool?23:35
jothamhe's a 3D animator23:35
jothamotherwise i can just do it, a small fireball is all we need for now23:35
mithroyes, as long as he is willing to release it under the GPL23:37
mithronash: the advice we have been given about images and GPL is to just say "lalalala can't hear you" :P23:38
jothamwell like i said, i know nothing about licenses, it would belong to this project for you to license as you please23:38
nashmithro: Probably best to have the save file from the original program if you can - eg xcf or svg file23:39
nashWe also do that commercially just in case someone claims we stole their art23:39
mithrojotham: that would be fine, as nash said the source would be cool too23:39
jothamwell it'd be using a particle effect plugin that belongs to a comercial software package, but sure i could give you the project file23:40
mithrojotham: that would be okay23:41
mithrojotham: licensing is really simple (if you don't really care :) - if you created, you can put it under any license you want23:44
mithroGPL - I want my work to be free and to remain free23:44
mithroBSD - do what the hell you want with it23:44
mithroall the other licenses are not all that useful (arguably)23:45
nashmithro: LGPL is very useful, and may be relevant for artwork...23:47
nashAll depends on what linking means in this context.23:47
nashProbably best to make sure you are clear on what you intend to allow people to do with the artwork.23:48
mithronash: linking and stuff has problems when you talk about python programs too23:48
* nash doesn't touch python, so it hasn't bothered him yet...23:49
mithrolibtpproto-py is LGPL with the following clarification23:49
mithroIt is the author's understanding that Python code which calls this23:49
mithrolibrary is "linked" to it and not a derivitive work.23:49
nashCool.  Seems reasonable to me.23:50
mithrointerrupts are making my brain hurt23:51
nashAs in int 21h, or trap?23:51
mithronash: as in on a PIC, you would think it would make sense to have 0 == interrupt disabled, 1 == interrupt enabled23:52
mithrobut some interrupts have 0 == enabled, others have 1 == enabled23:53
nashAhh... yep..,23:54
* nash notes this is why nash became essentially pure software... I used to do a lot of OS and microkernel stuff23:55
mithroplus i've got a bit of heart burn going on which is making it hard to concentrate23:55
nashUrgh.. and stupid licence conversations on IRC tooo ;-)  Do you have some ant-acid for the heartburn?23:56
jothami am an artist, i just make stuff and i don't care who uses it or steals it or wahtever23:59
mithrojotham: then use GPL or BSD license pretty much23:59

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