Monday, 2011-01-10

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Dark_ShikariAny admins on?  We have a student with a few tasks left to submit, but our org admin is asleep and probably won't be awake until after the deadline, so he can't approve more tasks.03:44
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aviraldgHi.03:45
aviraldgCan submitted tasks be reviewed after the deadline in Melange?03:45
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aviraldganyone there?06:04
Dark_ShikariDoesn't seem so.06:05
aviraldghaha :)06:05
aviraldganyway, I have a question06:05
aviraldgcan tasks be reviewed/closed after the deadline (2 hours from now?)?06:06
aviraldgDark_Shikari: ?06:07
Dark_ShikariWhy would I know?06:07
Dark_ShikariI'm just a mentor looking for help here.06:07
aviraldgoh06:07
Dark_ShikariAs I said, there doesn't seem to be anyone here.06:07
aviraldgokay06:07
aviraldgthats wierd06:08
aviraldgyou'd expect more people to be around06:08
aviraldgsince the contest is about to end06:09
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aviraldgSRabbelier: there?07:35
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dreimarkhmm, how do we accept a task when the student in panic missed to send something for review, but only added comments?08:03
dreimarkaviraldg: it is only pencils down for students08:04
aviraldgshouldn't Melange be "locked" right now?08:05
aviraldgdreimark: but I can still claim tasks and submit work08:05
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dreimarkgood to know08:05
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aviraldgdreimark: I can still submit tasks08:10
dreimarkaviraldg: hopefully the student i sent comments understands that too and did it08:11
aviraldgwhich student?08:11
aviraldgdreimark: ?08:12
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dreimarkaviraldg: the student which sends much comments to us but missed to send something to review08:32
aviraldgdreimark: um... name?08:32
dreimarkdude10808:32
aviraldghmm08:32
aviraldghe still can08:32
aviraldgI for one can submit tasks right now08:33
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ThomasWaldmannhow can i see work submissions done in the past 10h?09:35
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dukeletois GCI over or not?18:16
dukeletostudents are still submitting tasks. Seems unfair.18:16
madrazrdukeleto: AFAIK, the program is over18:22
madrazrI am seeing if there is a bug with the timeline18:22
dukeletomadrazr: students are telling me that students are still getting points18:22
dukeletomadrazr: the top 10 just changed and I think students are going to start getting pitchforks and torches18:22
dukeletomadrazr: make sure to lock your doors18:23
westi|tybeedukeleto: "students are going to start getting pitchforks and torches" - they've had those for a while18:23
dukeletowesti|tybee: yes, but now they have something to fight over :)18:25
westi|tybeeyeah rather than fighting with the mentors for not responding in seconds ;-)18:25
madrazr2 mins brb18:27
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dukeletomadrazr, westi|tybee : http://socghop.appspot.com/gci/student_ranking/show_details/google/gci2010/aoihana18:31
tpb<http://ln-s.net/8Lyu> (at socghop.appspot.com)18:32
dukeletothat page lists tasks that are completed in *the future* as well as after the contest deadline18:32
dukeletoblarg. not in the future. But still past the deadline18:32
madrazrdukeleto: don't worry, we will make sure those tasks are not counted18:33
dukeletomadrazr: thanks. Some students in the top 10 are worrying that they will be bumped out of the top 1018:34
dukeletomadrazr++18:34
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dukeletocotto_work: howdy18:36
cotto_workhi dukeleto18:36
* dukeleto and cotto_work would like to thank all the Melange devs for being awesome18:36
dukeletoSRabbelier: even you ;)18:36
cotto_workvery much18:36
SRabbelierdukeleto: you're too kind ;)18:37
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cotto_workMelange has its oddities and annoyances, but you all are doing a great job of improving it.  Thanks for the continuing work.18:40
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``foobarhi18:40
``foobari'm asking if the tasks that are open can still be completed?18:41
``foobarwell actually i know they can be completed because some students did complete some tasks about 2-3 hours ago from what o researched18:42
``foobarso are the tasks and points eligible?18:42
``foobaror every task i complete now will be removed?18:43
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jacktherippertasks beyond the deadline won't be counted as said sometime ago (you weren't there)19:19
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`foobarthe deadline was around 12 hours ago right?19:34
`foobarbecause the timeline was confusing19:34
fbrito`foobar: 8am UTChttp://www.google-melange.com/document/show/gci_program/google/gci2010/timeline19:35
`foobarUTC,GMT19:35
tpbTitle: Timeline (at www.google-melange.com)19:35
`foobarsome people thought that UTC is in the middle of US19:35
fbrito`foobar: it is 19:35 at UTC19:35
fbrito(at this right moment)19:35
`foobaryes19:35
`foobarso19:36
`foobarUTC=GMT19:36
`foobara lot of students didn't know that19:36
fbritothat's why they also mentioned Pacific Time :D19:36
`foobarthat was even more confusing19:39
`foobar12 A.M.19:39
`foobarwe didn't know if that meant 00:00 or 12:00 in 24h format19:39
fbritoyes, indeed19:40
madrazrdukeleto: YW19:42
madrazrdukeleto: thanks for the encouragement, at the end of the day that is all is what is required to keep improving stuff19:43
madrazrdukeleto: thanks to all of you to bearing with us and understanding the limitations. We will definitely do better next time19:43
madrazrcotto_work: to you too ^19:44
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dukeletomadrazr: thanks for your hard work19:51
madrazrdukeleto: NP :)19:51
iulian777heyo,has anyone experienced something like not beeing able to see his ,,Student profile" in the sidebar? Like it disappeared or so?19:53
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ArthurLiusomething about the program being "closed"?20:13
iulian777if the program is closed the Student profile won't appear in the sidebar anymore? for ex:"Edit my Student Profile" link.20:22
iulian777this is my concern20:22
`foobarit doesn't appear anymore to me either20:24
ThomasWaldmannbtw, the student name/nick would be nice to have in those tables20:24
`foobar:-??20:24
ThomasWaldmannif you have 20 translation tasks, it is a bit hard to find the right one (they all had same title)20:25
`foobarhmm20:27
`foobarso we can't edit our profiles20:27
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Dark_Shikariyeah we had a student unable to submit his last ~10 tasks20:33
Dark_Shikarihe still would have lost by about 4-6 points though20:33
ThomasWaldmannhuh, a single student?20:37
Dark_Shikariyes, the guy who's ranked 2nd =p20:37
ThomasWaldmannhow can a student have so many tasks pending if he is only allowed to claim one at a time?20:38
Dark_ShikariThat's just a melange feature.20:38
Dark_ShikariIf a task is "fix a bug", you can fix 10 bugs if you want.20:38
Dark_ShikariObviously nothing will stop a student from doing so, and it's not reasonable to try to cripple their work.20:39
ThomasWaldmannbut still 1 task20:39
Dark_ShikariFixing 10 bugs is going to be 10 tasks.20:39
Dark_ShikariIf each task is "fix a bug".20:39
Dark_ShikariSimilarly, if "translate a file" is a task, "translate 10 files" is 10 tasks.20:39
ThomasWaldmannaha, interesting20:39
ThomasWaldmannis that documented somewhere?20:39
Dark_ShikariNo, it's just how we did it, but it seems to make logical sense to us!20:39
Dark_ShikariOther orgs did similar.20:39
ThomasWaldmannmaybe make a task "work for us" :)20:40
Dark_Shikarilol20:40
Dark_Shikariha ha20:40
ThomasWaldmannwe also had kind of generic tasks like "do a translation" or "fix a bug", but it was determined before claimaccept what it exactly will be about20:41
Dark_Shikariwe did the same sort of determination in some cases20:41
ThomasWaldmannplus putting it into right difficulty subclass20:41
Dark_Shikarifor example, we had a "write an asm function" task, but some were really easy and others were hard20:41
Dark_Shikariso I ended up counting each function as part of a task20:42
Dark_Shikarie.g. 0.5 or 0.33 of a task20:42
Dark_Shikarithis was done off-melange though.20:42
Dark_ShikariSo when they'd submit, they'd link one, two, or even three patches for one task.20:42
ThomasWaldmannthat's fine i think.20:43
ThomasWaldmannbut doing multiple tasks with 1 claim is at least questionable20:43
Dark_Shikariwell, part of the problem is pipelining20:45
Dark_Shikarifor example, "fix a libavcodec bug"20:45
ThomasWaldmannbut now i understand better how many student got their high score ;)20:46
Dark_Shikarigetting a bugfix written, in, nitpicked, edited, and approved takes days20:46
Dark_Shikariif not a week or more20:46
Dark_ShikariBut finding a bug and fixing it can take a few hours.20:46
Dark_ShikariSo either you sit around doing nothing for one week20:46
Dark_ShikariOr you go find and fix more bugs.20:46
Dark_ShikariMost people prefer the latter ;)20:46
ThomasWaldmannyes, i see how it is optimizing roundtrip, but the question if that is still conforming to the rules20:47
ThomasWaldmannor, maybe, if they don't explicitely tell already, whether that should be explicitely defined20:47
Dark_Shikarithe only problem that occurs is when you have a limited resource of tasks, and students are competing for it20:48
ThomasWaldmannwhat happens for example if 2 students would fix same bug?20:48
Dark_Shikariit means you have to somehow, fairly, allocate tasks as students get them20:48
Dark_ShikariWe had that issue with asm tasks20:48
Dark_Shikariwhat we would do is a student would claim the task on IRC before doing it20:48
Dark_Shikariand I would note down "this function is claimed"20:48
Dark_Shikaristudents could only claim one at a time, or at least, one category of functions (if they're all related and the same problem basically)20:49
Dark_ShikariOnce they completed a patch, they could go get another.20:49
Dark_ShikariSometimes I'd let them claim a few at once.20:49
Dark_ShikariWith bugs, it's trickier, as there's two types of bugfixes we dealt with:20:49
Dark_Shikari1) Pick bug in bugtracker, fix it.20:49
Dark_ShikariThat's easy to track, because they have numbers.20:49
Dark_Shikari"I pick bug 2481"20:49
Dark_Shikari2) Fuzz program, find crash, fix bug.20:50
Dark_ShikariThat's harder to track.  You can mostly just use luck and hope that no two people fuzz and find the same bug.20:50
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ThomasWaldmanndid you ask about whether this is ok for the contest?20:51
Dark_Shikariyeah, I talked about it with them and there was no objections20:51
Dark_Shikaribut nevermind that, everyone else is doing it too20:51
Dark_Shikariand if they did think it was wrong, they're stupid, because not being able to pipeline tasks would vastly cripple producitvity.20:52
ThomasWaldmannfor me it sounds like you did a great job optimizing throughput of the system by not using melange and the procedure imposed on everybody else there.20:52
* ThomasWaldmann also rather uses a taxi than running 5000m :P20:54
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Dark_ShikariI think everyone who got anything done didn't really use melange.20:59
Dark_ShikariWe required that all students get on and be on IRC.20:59
Dark_ShikariThe tasks basically said "be active on IRC during your task(s), or don't bother"20:59
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Kaythxbyebtw, any infos yet when we recieve our T-Shirts and the prizes?21:37
dreimarkDark_Shikari: good idea21:37
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