Wednesday, 2010-05-05

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madrazrsaviet: ping13:30
madrazrwell not bad13:30
madrazrstill 7 here :P13:30
savietwell 9.30 is not bad either :)13:30
madrazrsaviet: nice :)13:31
madrazrLet me open my TODO file, give me a moment13:31
savietexams got over this evening so now all set for getting to work on this project13:31
madrazrsaviet: awesomeness!13:31
madrazrsaviet: looking forward for making this project the best one ever done for Melange :)13:31
savietme too, i will do my best13:32
madrazrsaviet: Ok13:32
savietbut your project from last yr is very cool as well13:32
savieti saw the documents u had uploaded in the wiki13:32
madrazrsaviet: heh, thanks13:32
madrazrsaviet: we did quite a work last time13:33
madrazrsaviet: thank to Lennard to having kept me motivated all along GSoC13:33
madrazrsaviet: he is a mentor anyone would dream to have and I was lucky to have him13:33
savietok :)13:33
madrazrsaviet: and of course all the diagrams there were done by him since I did not know how to do that at that moment :P13:34
savietoh okie13:34
madrazrsaviet: anyways13:34
madrazrcoming back to this project13:34
madrazrsaviet: quite a few questions13:35
madrazrsaviet: we have asked this several times, we asked this in our conf. call this monday too13:35
madrazrsaviet: I am asking you again now, you need to give me a very clear idea about it now13:35
madrazrsaviet: what are you obligations during this summer?13:35
madrazrsaviet: any plans to take off13:35
madrazrsaviet: any other work?13:36
madrazrsaviet: please give a very clear idea to me13:36
savietNo. as of now I do not have any plans for a holiday this summer.13:36
madrazrsaviet: don't hide anything, be free. We are completely Ok if you have something else in between, but please do let me know13:36
savietno other jobs as well.13:36
madrazrsaviet: this is till mid August, i.e end of GSoC?13:36
savietso it should be this full-time until august13:37
madrazrsaviet: great13:37
savietall my job application, i have indicated availability only from aug13:37
madrazrand how frequently will you be able to meet me or I will be able to meet you?13:37
madrazrsaviet: very nice!13:37
savietwell i am new to this but i think once development13:37
savietwork starts13:37
savieti will have a lot of stuff to ask13:37
savietso maybe twice a week13:38
madrazrsaviet: sure, you will have to :)13:38
savietunless I have more to ask then we can schedule a meeting then13:38
savietor mail or something like that13:38
madrazrsaviet: I am not really asking for an official meeting or something of this kind we are doing now13:38
madrazrin general for talk or a chat about the project13:38
savietu mean immidiately now?13:39
savietor u like on a regular basis?13:39
madrazrsaviet: well anyways leave it for now13:39
madrazrwe will take this out of this meeting13:39
madrazrI will talk to you about this later, this meeting is really intended to be a design discussion13:39
madrazrjust remind me post meeting13:39
savietok will do13:39
savietu said u would tell me about the13:40
savietlocal repository13:40
savietsubversion etc today13:40
madrazrsaviet: Oh yeah13:40
madrazrsaviet: thanks for reminding13:40
savietyes no probs13:40
savieti made a clone as said at the meeting13:40
savietand have got a local copy13:41
savietwhich i can deploy on my machine now13:41
madrazrsaviet: cool!13:41
savietnot sure how to deploy on app engine tough13:41
madrazrsaviet: so yeah, what is your experience with Open source development in general, to be more specific have you used revision control systems, either with Open source development or with any other project?13:41
savieti have used SVN13:41
madrazrsaviet: I will help you with deploying, don't worry. It is very easy13:41
savietfor some projects13:42
madrazrsaviet: Ok13:42
savietso ma familiar with that13:42
savietalthough i went thru some tutorials on mercurial13:42
savietand was able to follow thru13:42
madrazrsaviet: we use a RCS called Mercurial (hg) which is based on a slightly different concept called as distributed RCS13:42
madrazrsaviet: Ok. Nice13:42
madrazrsaviet: well, if you want you can go through as well. Very nice hg stuff13:43
madrazrsaviet: and ask me if you want any help with that13:43
savietok will do13:43
madrazrsaviet: so basically you must be familiar with these stuff in hg13:43
madrazrsaviet: how to create your own local stuff of the repo (which you have already done), how to create diffs and patches, how to commit and how to export patches13:44
madrazrsaviet: and how to push back your commits to the repository13:44
madrazrsaviet: well enough of it for now I think, ping me anytime you want help with hg13:44
madrazrsaviet: so did you get any time to think about the project?13:45
savietwell i did13:45
savietbut i have not created any documentation as yet13:45
savietso now to set about presenting the design13:46
madrazrsaviet: did not get your last sentence13:46
madrazrwhat do you mean?13:46
savieti have to go into the implementation details as well right13:46
savietsuch as what kind of data models13:46
madrazrsaviet: yes13:46
madrazrsaviet: yeah13:46
savietand interactions between them13:46
madrazrsaviet: yup13:47
savietand templates etc13:47
savietok ok13:47
madrazrsaviet: you think about it and put it up in the wiki. We can collaboratively edit it later13:47
madrazrnot wise to discuss in this meeting about such minute details I think13:47
madrazrit will be more of talking than doing work in that case13:48
savietok i will do that and mail u once i have updated the wiki13:48
madrazrsaviet: sure13:48
madrazrsaviet: What I would like to discuss now is what kind of APIs do you intend to use and stuff13:48
savietso for the geogrpahic13:49
madrazrsaviet: yeah?13:49
savietdisplay we have to use google maps api13:49
savietand the UI13:49
savietthere is a deault UI that can be used13:49
saviethowever i think we might need to add on/ or create a new one13:50
savietfor our requirements13:50
madrazrsaviet: like?13:50
savietsuch as have pop-out widget13:50
savietwhen people scroll over13:50
savieta given location13:50
savietshowing the users from that location13:50
savietor events at tat location13:51
savietif we show events via the maps UI13:51
savietthen there will not b need for a calendar UI exactly13:51
savietwe can just use the calendar API to pull the data13:51
savietand use this interface to display13:51
madrazrsaviet: well I am not sure about that at this point in time13:51
madrazrsaviet: well may be yeah, we need to think about it again13:51
madrazrsaviet: also we need to think about how we will filter the data?13:52
savietu mean the events data?13:52
savietor the location data?13:52
madrazrsaviet: events and location13:52
madrazrand organizations13:52
savietfor location you said that we already have the location data13:52
madrazrsaviet: we have13:53
madrazrwe have data13:53
savietso we just need to read from database and show in the UI13:53
madrazrsaviet: I am thinking of the UI to filter as well13:53
madrazrsaviet: let me explain13:53
madrazrsaviet: say some one says, I want to know all the students in Switzerland, working with KDE13:53
savietoh ok13:54
savietfor this we can have a UI like how we currently have for listing accepted organizations13:54
savietwe could use this for filtering by location,13:54
savietand organization13:54
savietall in one page13:54
savietso if no filter is selected then all students/mentors are listed13:55
madrazrbut we don't want to use lists here? we want to display the results in the map?13:55
savietthen we could have a small form13:56
savietwhen users can select from drop-down lists13:56
savietlocation name and organization name13:56
madrazrsaviet: yup something like that13:56
saviethowever this might make it a bit messy13:57
savietas the lists might be very long13:57
savietand require lots of scrolling13:57
madrazrsaviet: we don't have the lists at all for this right?13:57
madrazrthe results are not shown in the lists at all?13:57
savietu mean in the current lists on melange?13:58
madrazr(Oh btw sorry for distracting, before I forget, will you be able to post the summary of this meeting please?)13:58
savietyes yes13:58
madrazrsaviet: forget about current lists for now13:58
savieti will post it tomorrow13:58
madrazr(Ok sure)13:58
madrazrsaviet: just think about what our new UI13:58
savietwould look like?13:59
madrazrsaviet: and how you will implement this in the backend?13:59
madrazrsaviet: I don't know now, whatever you think would look better and usable13:59
madrazrsaviet: you are a GSoC student too, think as a user what you would prefer13:59
madrazrsaviet: I visualize something like this14:00
savieti would prefer an AJAXy type of UI14:00
saviettell me14:00
madrazrsaviet: thats correct. I have the same thing in my mind too14:00
madrazrsaviet: we will have a UI that shows a map and there are certain fields14:00
madrazrinitially when the user visits the page and with no data entered in, it shows the students or mentors closest to him in terms of proximity14:01
madrazrproximity may be or may not be distance based14:01
madrazrit may be organization based also, we can think about that later, should not be hard14:01
madrazrhe will start keying in the data in the fields and he will see the map changing14:02
madrazrrather items displayed on the map changing?14:02
savietyes tat sounds good14:03
madrazrsaviet: but might not be very easy to implement14:03
savietyup, because there are many levels of filtering14:03
madrazrwe may have to make some changes owing to feasibility and stupid restrictions from Appengine :P14:03
madrazrsaviet: yup14:03
savietoh wat kind of restrictions?14:03
madrazrsaviet: Appengine has several,14:04
madrazrjust a moment I will link that14:04
savietoh ok14:04
tpbTitle: Quotas - Google App Engine - Google Code (at
madrazralso there are other restrictions like you can run only 30 sub queries within a query and such stuff, for which we may have to figure out work arounds14:05
madrazrsaviet: anyways coming back14:06
savieti guess we will have to handle that when the implementation gets done14:06
madrazrbut I am still wondering how calendar will pop in here14:07
madrazrsaviet: think something about that too14:08
madrazrsaviet: also we need to have a very clear algorithm to do this stuff14:09
savietwell i was thinking14:09
madrazrsaviet: finding people by proximity14:09
savietwell in the ideas page14:09
savietgeomodel was suggested14:09
madrazrsaviet: yeah?14:09
madrazrsaviet: let me read once again, just to recollect14:09
savietit does some level14:10
savietof querying on geographic data14:10
savietbut i dont know how sophisticated it is14:10
madrazrsaviet: sure, yeah14:11
madrazrsaviet: I have read through the docs of geomodel project14:11
savietthey have a proximity qyery14:11
madrazrsaviet: great!14:11
madrazrsaviet: so you are using that?14:11
savietyes i think i can use that14:11
madrazrsaviet: cool! I will say, go ahead!14:12
savietthis can be done at different level14:12
savietsuch as even distance14:12
savietby miles radius i think14:12
madrazrsaviet: Ok14:12
madrazrsaviet: that will be very nice14:12
savietits looking good14:12
savietfor the calendar14:13
savieti tot we can move away from the traditional UI to something tat comes out of the map14:13
savietsince the map is going to be like the base for everything14:13
madrazrsaviet: yes correct14:13
savietso this can also be integrated into the filtering14:14
savietlike show "events" in "location"14:14
savietsimilar to show "students" in location14:14
madrazrsaviet: in date range?14:14
savietdate range could be there but14:15
savietwill there really be that many events14:15
savietthat we might have to narrow the date range?14:15
savietall events over the summer can be shown right since its only a 3 month span of activity14:15
madrazrsaviet: when you consider worldwide, yes there may be quite a good number14:16
madrazrsaviet: but in a region, no14:16
saviethmm ok14:16
savietwell the api already has this provision14:16
madrazrsaviet: yes what you said is correct14:16
savietto query by date14:16
madrazrsaviet: Ok14:16
savietthere are also other details about the calendar14:17
madrazrsaviet: also in addition, shouldn't users be able to see just calendars(without maps)? would that be too hard?14:17
madrazrsaviet: yes? go ahead14:17
savietlike who handles the addition of new events14:17
savietcos everyone cannot be allowed to add new events rite?14:17
savietwe need to have some sort of approval from the owner of the program14:17
madrazrsaviet: correct, may be org admins also for org level stuff14:18
savietok so org admins and program admin14:18
savietwill have access14:18
madrazrsaviet: yup14:18
savietto ONE calendar only rite14:18
savietso the whole program will operate with a single calendar14:19
madrazrsaviet: wait14:19
madrazrsaviet: depends on what this calendar can do14:19
madrazrsaviet: is it possible to restrict certain users not to be able to see certain events on the calendar?14:19
savietrestriction based on user roles14:20
madrazrfor example student from Melange may not be interested to see the IRC meetings of Apache Software foundation?14:20
savietmight be possible as this data is already there with melange14:20
madrazrsaviet: Ok14:20
savietyes this restriction can be imposed14:20
savieti had suggested this in my proposal14:21
madrazrsaviet: with one calendar?14:21
savietno at that time I had thought to have14:21
savietone calendar for every orgranization14:21
madrazrsaviet: I remember! But is this feasible with single calendar?14:21
madrazrsaviet: Ok14:21
savietwell it might be feasible but14:21
savietthe filtering will have to be done14:21
savietby the code14:22
savieti think it can be done14:22
madrazrsaviet: why not if feasible and if it is not too hard and time consuming?14:22
madrazrsaviet: good then14:22
savietand as for the calendars only vire14:22
savietit is not a probelm14:22
madrazrsaviet: Ok14:23
savieti already found a library which allows14:23
savietfor simple display14:23
madrazrsaviet: CalVi you suggested in your proposal?14:23
madrazrsaviet: Ok14:23
savieti tried integrating it with my local copy14:23
savietand it looks good14:23
savietit even has some youtube and maps widget supposrt14:24
savietbut then it allows only display14:24
savietnot adding events etc14:24
savietso we will have to add some14:24
madrazrsaviet: like?14:24
savietforms and buttons to allow for this14:24
madrazrsaviet: Ok14:24
saviethowever since not everyone will be allowed to add events14:24
savieti was thinking of having like request form for those without rights to add events14:25
savietbut want to publish something they might be organizing14:25
madrazrsaviet: Ok14:25
savietso if all orgs have their own calendar14:26
savietwould this mean that say if i am from melange14:27
savietand i want to see what events another organization is having14:27
savieti wouldnt be able to14:27
savietbecause only those in that organization will be able to see14:27
madrazrsaviet: I think better will be to allow Org Admin of that org to decide about that?14:28
madrazrsaviet: say publicly visible? Yes or No?14:28
savietsounds ok14:29
madrazrsaviet: should be set about maps and calendar then?14:29
savietjust one more thing14:29
madrazrsaviet: yup?14:29
savietnow that we have so many calendars14:29
saviethow does this show up on the global map14:29
savietsay I select to see "events" at this "location"14:29
madrazrsaviet: we are not showing calendars? we are just marking events on the calendar14:29
savietso i will see events in program calendar14:30
savietand my organization calendar at the location i want14:30
savieti might see other orgs events14:30
savietin my location14:30
savietif they have made it public14:30
madrazrsaviet: yup, doesn't it make sense?14:31
savietyes it does14:31
madrazrsaviet: cool!14:31
savietok as of now we have 2 views14:31
madrazrsaviet: the user may also say, I want to see only global events14:31
savietmap + filtering14:31
madrazri.e Programme related events14:31
savietand calendar only view14:32
madrazrthats perfect14:32
savieti think next thing is to clearly categorize they types of filtering combinations that can be possible14:32
savietand how they will actually be implemented14:33
savieti will do this myself and update the wiki14:33
madrazrsaviet: yeah sure14:33
savietcan i also start with a basic uml workflow14:33
savietfor the feature14:33
madrazrsaviet: yes, go go!14:33
madrazrsaviet: we have left discussing another important thing14:34
madrazrremember? :P14:34
savietyes! the second part of the project14:34
savietthe user pages14:34
madrazrsaviet: yup, which is very very important14:34
savietok so for the things on the user page14:35
savietpersonal profile14:35
savietblog widget /if any14:35
madrazrsaviet: sorry?14:36
savietproject updates14:36
savietsome of the things that can be seen on each users page14:36
madrazrsaviet: Ok14:37
madrazrsaviet: he must also be give more information about himself14:37
savietis tat a compulsory thing?14:37
madrazrsomething more like a facebook/linkedin/orkut style profile information14:37
madrazrsaviet: well. not really14:37
madrazrsaviet: they are all optional to user14:37
madrazrsaviet: but for you, yes :P14:37
savietdo you have any suggestions for the UI for this feature?14:38
madrazrsaviet: may be simple forms to fill in the data14:38
madrazrand photograph if he wants14:38
madrazrand lastly text field which takes in html to write about himself14:38
madrazrsaviet: keep in mind about the rss widget we suggested as well14:39
savietthis would be similar to blog entries14:39
madrazrsaviet: I did not get you14:39
savieti meant the text field which takes in html14:39
savietlike the blog entry text fields14:40
madrazrsaviet: yeah14:40
savietso would pictures and all be allowed?14:40
savietto be inserted into this entry?14:40
madrazrsaviet: think of a design where we can add other widgets as well later14:40
madrazrsaviet: not really, we can provide a separate field for picture14:40
madrazrand place it at some standard location14:41
madrazrsaviet: I am not for giving that control to the user since it leads to confusion14:41
savietfor rss widget14:41
savietmelange already has a feature like this right14:42
madrazrsaviet: yes we do have it14:42
madrazrsaviet: you can reuse it14:42
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savietand i had also suggested twitter14:42
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savietwe cld have a "tabbed" user page14:43
saviet(like facebook!)14:43
madrazrsaviet: sure14:43
savietwith profile and project14:43
savietand other stuff14:43
madrazrsaviet: but we will have twitter etc etc as a Nice To Have and if you have time later, since these things are already bloating up14:43
madrazrsaviet: yes thats a cool idea14:43
madrazryou can add that for now14:44
madrazrtabbed pages with profile14:44
savietafter the basic user page is in place14:44
madrazrand project14:44
madrazrgo ahead14:44
savietsounds good14:44
savieti think i have more or less enough details14:44
savieton design to work on formalizing it14:44
madrazrsaviet: cool!14:45
madrazrsaviet: in the coming days you will keep updating the wiki?14:45
savietyes yes14:45
savieti will14:45
savieti think by weekend14:45
madrazrsaviet: Ok14:46
savieti will have the design docs14:46
madrazrsaviet: Ok, keep me posted about stuff, also ping me about anything you would like to know14:46
madrazrsaviet: anytime, via mail, gtalk or irc or skype14:46
savietand am looking into the bugs suggested14:47
madrazrsaviet: Ok14:47
madrazrpick one of them up and try to fix them. Feel free to ask for any help14:47
savietboth of them14:47
savietare related to notifications14:47
saviethow do i simulate the bug?14:48
madrazrsaviet: I just forgot the bug numbers14:48
madrazrcan you please give me both the numbers14:48
madrazr890 and ?14:48
tpb<> (at
tpb<$> (at
madrazrsaviet: just a moment, let me read them up again14:49
savieti think for 89014:50
madrazrsaviet: yup?14:50
savieturl needs to be changed14:50
savietdependign on the stduent14:50
savietaccessing the application14:50
madrazrsaviet: not really14:51
madrazrall that is correct14:51
madrazrsaviet: only thing that is missing there is socghop.appspot.com14:51
madrazrthe url should be http:/
madrazrbut instead it is manifesting itself as http://gsoc/student_proposal/review/google/gsoc2010/14:51 is missing and you need to add it14:51
savietoh ok14:51
madrazrsimulating this bug should be easy14:52
madrazrwait a moment I will give you the command14:52
savieti'll so that:)14:52
madrazrwhat OS do you use for development?14:52
savietoh yes14:53
saviet !14:53
madrazrsaviet: anyways was just curious, should not matter in any case14:53
savieti forgot to ask you14:53
savieti wanted to ask if i should use windows or linux14:53
savieti have both and am comfortable with both14:53
madrazrsaviet: use whatever you want14:53
madrazrwhatever is convenient to you14:53
madrazrsaviet: but I strongly recommend you to use Eclipse with PyDev for development14:54
madrazron any platform14:54
savietso when i am doing my work and i deploy the application on localhost right14:54
madrazrsaviet: you can see the videos on how to use Google Appengine on PyDev on Eclipse14:54
madrazrsaviet: yup, thats correct14:54
savietit takes incredibly long to load14:55
savietand respond14:55
savietso this makes testing my work very slow14:55
madrazrsaviet: shouldn't14:55
madrazrat least on local instance14:55
savietis this cos og the slowness of my pc?14:55
madrazrsaviet: happened on both Windows and Linux?14:55
madrazrsaviet: not at all14:55
savieti had to load and wait for quite some time14:56
saviettat i went to check mail etc. before i got to thru the login14:56
madrazrsaviet: may be it happens first time14:56
madrazrbut should be fine after sometime14:56
savietyup might be14:56
madrazrsaviet: try again14:56
madrazrif the problem still persists, let me know14:57
savietwell this was weeks back the svn checkout14:57
savieti created a new clone today14:57
madrazrsaviet: Ok14:57
savietand have checked out so will try it with this14:57
madrazrsaviet: shouldn't change much, but still let me know how it goes14:57
madrazrsaviet: btw as to how to simulate that bug14:58
madrazryou can run this command in your console14:58
madrazrpython -m smtpd -n -c DebuggingServer localhost:102514:58
madrazrthe mails sent should appear on the console when Melange sends it14:59
madrazryou can read it and fix the bug14:59
savietok will do14:59
madrazrsaviet: ask me or anyone else here if you want to know anything about the code base. Don't feel it would be silly and shy in asking such questions15:00
savietok sure15:00
madrazrthe code base is huge and we completely understand that it is not obvious to navigate through it and find stuff initially15:00
savietyes! :)15:01
madrazrsaviet: thats exactly why you need to fix bugs, by doing so you will learn a lot about the code base and its structure and become well versed with it15:01
savietbut i will ask if my code navigation skills let me down15:01
madrazrsaviet: sure. just ask away what ever you want to know15:01
madrazrsaviet: few things you may want to read up
tpb<> (at
madrazrsaviet: like how to write your commit logs, how to send patches and all15:03
madrazrsaviet: but anyways please let me know when you are ready to send your first patch, since I would like to have it in a slightly different but convenient way15:03
savietoh ok15:04
madrazranything else for now?15:04
savietnope, i think thats about it15:04
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savietwill ping u on gtalk if anything comes up15:04
madrazrsure, shall we call this meeting off then?15:05
madrazrsaviet: great15:05
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madrazrsaviet: few more things which I just forgot15:15
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madrazrsaviet: as we spoke in the conference call last week, we would like to have a status update of your project every week15:15
madrazrsaviet: sorry, it is not that we would like15:16
madrazrsaviet: it is a must!15:16
madrazrsaviet: a written report of your work that week and what you will be working next week15:16
savietwill update right from this weekend15:17
madrazrsaviet: cool!15:17
madrazrsaviet: we would prefer to have it on our blog, if that is convenient to you15:17
madrazrsaviet: or if you want to post it elsewhere, that should be fine too, provided you let us know before you start doing so15:18
madrazrsaviet: choose whatever you want15:18
savietyes, i will post weekly summary15:18
savietat the dev blog itself15:18
madrazrsaviet: Ok15:18
madrazrsaviet: Ok15:18
madrazrsaviet: I am very very specific about this one thing15:18
savietthe weekly summaries?15:18
madrazrsaviet: I would like to have the report by Friday night at any cost15:18
madrazrsaviet: I need to have it before I wake up on Saturday morning :D15:19
madrazrno excuses15:19
savietwill mark friday night on my calendar15:19
madrazrsaviet: so I can review your patches over the weekend and commit them15:19
madrazrsaviet: great!15:19
madrazrthats all I wanted to say for now15:19
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