Wednesday, 2009-04-01

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dbentle1Anyone here?05:16
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solydzajsdbentle1: ping07:17
dbentle1Hey; what's up?07:17
dbentle1This is Pawel?07:17
solydzajsyep :-)07:18
solydzajsPawel :-)07:18
solydzajsdbentle1: I saw your email regarding multiple lists07:18
solydzajson one page07:18
dbentle1Yeah.07:18
dbentle1I also submitted one revision.07:18
solydzajsI'm reviewing commits right now :-)07:19
dbentle1Right now I'm working on helper/lists.py to make getListContent use mutation less.07:19
dbentle1Does that sound reasonably unobjectionable?07:19
solydzajsWe are showing multiple list on one page in many places07:19
solydzajsyep :-)07:19
dbentle1It's just kind of intimidating right now.07:19
dbentle1For things like "list_key_order" and why that makes export happen...07:19
solydzajsit's Sverre's code, it's not really finished07:20
solydzajsand needs work07:20
solydzajsI agree07:20
dbentle1OK.07:20
solydzajsregarding multiple lists on one page07:20
dbentle1So far, my experience has been that there are many many layers...07:20
dbentle1And so many files with similar names.07:20
solydzajswe are thinking about adding some tab js widget07:20
solydzajsand put each list on one tab on some views07:21
dbentle1It seems that the average path as at least 1.5 of [base, view, model, logic] : P07:21
solydzajsbut still multiple lists on one page will be needed in other places anyway07:21
solydzajsYou will probably find a lot of code that could be optimized, the reason we didn't have time to do it is due to approaching GSoC deadlines07:22
dbentle1Oh, su re.07:22
dbentle1I mean, I don't care about optimization.07:22
dbentle1It just seems like there are layers of indirection?07:22
solydzajswhat do you mean by "indirection" ?07:23
dbentle1Like, I'm not entirely sure what it wins to use getForFields and getQueryForFields instead of just making db.Query objects.07:23
dbentle1I'm also not sure what filter is meant to accomplish in that regard.07:24
dbentle1But it seems like it's creating a whole new API to the datastore on top of the base datastore one.  Like, the unique parameter...07:24
dbentle1You can already just call query.get() instead of getForfields(unique=True) on a query object...07:24
dbentle1But because getForFields combines creating a query and executing it, it needs to be a parameter that changes the return type.07:25
solydzajsyep basically it creates query for you based on the parameters. And yes I agree that it makes things more complicated and simple db.Query would do the job in many places, let me have a look at source code07:26
dbentle1OK.07:26
dbentle1If you could explain the filter parameter, or show me examples of how it's used, or pages to load to see it used interestingly, that could help me a lot...07:27
dbentle1BTW, did I hear that you're coming to New York at some point?07:27
solydzajsyep :-) I will be in NY office on 14th April till 21st of April07:28
solydzajsyou will be there ?07:28
dbentle1Great!  I look forward to meeting you in person.07:28
dbentle1Yeah; it's where I live.07:28
solydzajsawesome :-)07:28
solydzajsAre you going to be at Google I/O in May ?07:28
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solydzajsI will be in Mountain View and San Francisco from 23rd of May till 14th of June07:29
dbentle1Oh; cool.07:30
dbentle1I'll be there for that first week.07:30
solydzajsok great07:30
solydzajsSverre and Lennie will be there too for our Melange Dev Meeting and Google I/O basically 23-30 of May07:31
solydzajsand then I'm staying for Apple WWDC 2009 conference07:31
dbentle1Oh, nice.07:31
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solydzajsgetQueryForFields is really rarely use alone it's mostly used thru getForFields, but you can have a look at getQueryForFields usage in soc.views.models.program in slots() method07:34
solydzajshow filters are being used07:34
dbentle1I saw getForFields, which still seems heavyweight and unwieldy.07:34
dbentle1OK; thanks.07:34
solydzajsor assignedProposals() method in the same file07:34
dbentle1Ah, okay.07:35
solydzajsgetForFields was basically Sverre's generic approach for generating queries for our models07:35
dbentle1Yeah; there seems to be so much generic that it can be hard to understand what's really happening.07:35
dbentle1Maybe I'm just not smart enough.07:35
dbentle1But it's clearer to me to see:  q = db.Query(Foo); q.filter(something); q.filter(something_else); q.fetch(limit)07:36
dbentle1Y'know?07:36
solydzajsyep I agree with you too much generic is hard to understand07:36
solydzajsand I already told that to Sverre, that not everything will be generic in this project07:36
solydzajsYep it's clearer for me too, we can refactor that07:37
solydzajsand I would be +1 on that :-)07:37
dbentle1OK.07:37
dbentle1Cool.07:37
solydzajsit will be also faster07:37
solydzajsbecause it wouldn't have to generate those queries07:37
solydzajsand iterate over filter etc07:38
dbentle1I mean, it will still do the same thing.07:38
dbentle1So it won't be much at all faster.07:38
solydzajsyep, just a bit :-)07:38
solydzajsbut the other reason for doing getForFields is because Todd wanted all the logic in logic modules, not in views07:39
dbentle1Ah.07:39
dbentle1I guess that distinction hasn't been clear to me...07:40
solydzajsand getForFields allowed as to quickly give a filter as parameter to this method and get data from logic into the view07:40
dbentle1It just seems like there ends up being foo.py in 3 or more different places!07:40
solydzajsyep models, logic, views07:40
solydzajsand sometimes in html templates but that's html07:41
dbentle1Hrm.07:41
dbentle1And there's so much inheritance!07:41
dbentle1(Google tends to be very light on inheritance...)07:41
solydzajsinheritance is not supported on GAE07:42
solydzajsfor models07:42
solydzajswe use inheritance in views07:42
mib_8hfolaguys, is there any problem with underlining and indentation07:42
solydzajswe have base view class07:42
solydzajsand we use it for logic07:42
solydzajswe have base logic class07:43
dbentle1And yet, the User class inherits from soc.models.linkable.Linkable?07:43
solydzajsyep but it basically put's all the properties from Linkable to User class07:43
solydzajscause in App Engine datastore you won't see any Linkable entities07:43
solydzajsjust User entities07:43
dbentle1Right.07:44
solydzajswe just use inheritance to avoid copy/pasting of properties07:44
solydzajsat least for models07:44
dbentle1OK.07:44
solydzajsmib_8hfola: There should be none, if there is please create an issue on our issue tracker07:44
dbentle1Anyway, I think I'm about to submit a small change to just get rid of some mutation.07:45
dbentle1And then head to bed...07:45
solydzajsdbentle1: the first design approach didn't use OOP at all07:45
solydzajsdbentle1: just modules and functions07:45
solydzajsdbentle1: if you go back in svn history to like September, October 2008 you will see07:45
solydzajsok :-)07:45
dbentle1So, views/helper/lists.py "shouldn't use queries directly because that's for logic"?07:45
solydzajsthanks for all your contributions07:46
dbentle1Is that the theory?07:46
solydzajsyep that's the theory :-)07:46
solydzajsbut as you see it's not always true07:46
solydzajs:-)07:46
mib_8hfolasolydzajs: i submitted my application yesterday, the portion i underlined or indented would revert back. if it matters, i first created application in ms word, then copied it to the app07:46
dbentle1Hrm; it's hard for me to see how it's better to recreate a seaprate but worse API that it calls instead...07:46
solydzajsdbentle1: it's like 5AM in CA, what are you still doing up ?:-)07:47
mib_8hfolai would file a bug though07:47
dbentle1Just got caught up.  Really wanted to fix this.  Discouraged I can't right now. : (07:47
solydzajsmib_8hfola: copy pasting from Word doesn't work, it's TinyMCE problem (we have a fix but we didn't apply it yet)07:47
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mib_8hfolaso its a known problem then07:48
solydzajsdbentle1: you can propose refactoring of what you don't like07:48
solydzajsdbentle1: how much time you will have for Melange ? 20% project ?07:49
dbentle1Melange is one of my 80% projects.07:50
dbentle1And taking on more and more of the "official" parts, like fighting fires and releasing it.07:50
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solydzajsdbentle1: oh ok good :-)07:51
solydzajsdbentle1: I'm going to work on release script finally this week07:51
solydzajsdbentle1: cause soc-google is taking too long07:51
solydzajsdbentle1: so soon it will be easy to release melange official Google release and community release07:52
dbentle1OK; I'd love to do reviews, because, yeah, some of that can be done simply, I think...07:52
solydzajsdbentle1: on the same repository07:52
dbentle1Great.07:52
dbentle1Let me know how I can help.07:52
solydzajswill do07:52
dbentle1Hrm; is there a good test suite for this?07:55
dbentle1I want to check it in, but I don't want to break people.07:55
dbentle1Also, where's an export link show up?07:55
solydzajstest suite for Melange ?07:56
dbentle1Well, right now I'm working on lists helper, but yes.07:56
solydzajswe don't have much tests yet so don't worry about it, once we finish release script, I will add tests and pylint checker to buildbot07:57
dbentle1OK...07:57
solydzajsand set post commit hooks on code.google.com07:57
dbentle1I'm going to check in then go sleep...07:57
solydzajscause Augie didn't finish that07:57
solydzajsyep you should it's late :-)07:58
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dbentle1I've changed the gettingstarted wiki, the seed db script, and am about to do some changes to list helper.07:58
dbentle1I hope to expand on all of these changes soon, so feedback is appreciated or else I'll just keep doing what I've been doing.07:58
arundoes melange automatically flag some student apps as ineligible? we have two applications that are marked ineligible, and i don't think any of the mentors marked them that way.07:58
solydzajsdbentle1: yep I reviewed wiki changes, they are ok. I'm reviewing r2769 right now08:00
dbentle1Thanks.08:01
dbentle1TTYL08:01
solydzajsdbentle1: if you see +1 on code.google.com it's ok08:01
solydzajsdbentle1: if it's neutral or negative you will get a comment08:01
dbentle1Got it.08:01
solydzajsdbentle1: we decided to stop sending LGTM. comments and just set Positive instead without comment08:01
dbentle1oh, okay. : (  That's what that was about?  I like the explicit reinforcement!08:02
dbentle1But can deal with either way. : )08:02
solydzajsarun: Students can mark their proposals as ineligible too (invalid).08:02
solydzajsarun: those have the same status as "Mark as Ineligible" done by Mentors or Org admins08:02
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solydzajsdbentle1: there was way too much spam in the inbox after I did review of 30 commits or even more :-)08:03
arunsolydzajs, gotcha. thanks for the info. i looked again, and it looks like they've submitted new versions of their app. i'm guessing the students marked their earlier proposals as ineligible.08:04
solydzajsarun: yep I guess so too :-)08:04
solydzajsdbentle1: ttyl :-)08:05
solydzajsdbentle1: thx08:05
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foreverhi, all09:07
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dionesSRabbelier: Hi12:41
SRabbelierdiones: heya!12:41
solydzajsSRabbelier: yo :-)12:43
solydzajsSRabbelier: I had a discussion with Dan today12:43
SRabbeliersolydzajs: I read12:43
dionesSRabbelier: Is there a place where the packages structure of melange is explained?12:43
SRabbelierdiones: uhm.. well.. I don't think so actually; but it's rather easy12:44
solydzajsSRabbelier: ok, and what do you think ?12:44
SRabbelierdiones: we have the app/ folder, which contains our code12:44
SRabbelierdiones: then the /soc folder in there is the bulk of Melange12:45
SRabbelierdiones: We the gsoc and ghop directories in /app for ghop/gsoc specific things12:45
dioneshmm12:45
SRabbelierdiones: then in /app/soc we have /models, which, obviously, contain all our models12:46
SRabbelierdiones: there's also /logic there, which has all the logic code, typically that's stuff like getting entities from the database, etc.12:46
SRabbelierdiones: in /logic/models there's the model specific logic12:47
SRabbelierdiones: (for example, the User logic makes sure a user's old account is stored when it's changed)12:47
dioneshmm12:47
SRabbelierdiones: and then we have /views, where all the view code is (mainly, the part that turns the entities retrieved by the logic into html)12:48
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SRabbelierdiones: in /views/models again is the model specific views12:48
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SRabbelierdiones: such as having the accepted orgs list show all orgs, and having the notification view show only your notifications, etc.12:49
dioneshmm12:52
SRabbelierdiones: that's a lot of hmming :P12:53
dionesSRabbelier: Its a lot of concepts :)12:53
SRabbelierdiones: am I making sense though?12:54
dionesSRabbelier: Yes you are, just the view part is still a bit confusing12:54
SRabbelierdiones: ok, why so?12:55
dionesSRabbelier: To me it sounds a bit like the logic package but with methods specific about what should be presented to the user12:55
SRabbelierdiones: well, no, the view dispatches to the logic code12:56
SRabbelierdiones: so it goes "give me all srabbelier's notifications"12:56
SRabbelierdiones: and then it renders those as a HTML page12:56
SRabbelierdiones: the logic code has no clue about HTML, it might as well be used by something rendering in Qt12:57
dionesSRabbelier: Hmm, I see12:58
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dionesSRabbelier: Where are the request handlers?13:02
SRabbelierdiones: Django does that for us13:03
SRabbelierdiones: but see sitemap/build.py13:03
SRabbelierdiones: it (surprise surprise) builds the sitemap13:03
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dionesSRabbelier: This is so high level13:06
dionesSRabbelier: Kind of lvl9913:06
SRabbelierdiones: the sitemap stuff?13:07
dionesSRabbelier: So, about the tests,13:07
dionesSRabbelier: and the main.py13:07
SRabbelierdiones: the main.py?13:08
dionesSRabbelier: Yep I can barely understand the python keywords13:08
dionesSRabbelier: And thats all13:09
SRabbelierdiones: the python keywords?13:09
dionesSRabbelier: Just kidding13:09
SRabbelierdiones: april fools? :P13:09
dionesSRabbelier: Hell I almost forgot its april fools13:10
SRabbelierdiones: ehe13:10
dionesSRabbelier: So, about the tests13:11
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SRabbelierdiones: what about them? :)13:11
dionesSRabbelier: I understand almost everything that is there(except for the mock tests but thats just because I'm too newbie at unit tests, I guess).13:13
SRabbelierdiones: the mock test isn't that complicated13:13
SRabbelierdiones: you know how in python even functions are objects?13:14
dionesyes13:14
SRabbelierdiones: as such, they can be set to something else13:14
SRabbelierdiones: so I can do "sys.out = StringIO.StringIO()"13:15
dionesSRabbelier: ok13:15
SRabbelierdiones: so what the mock does13:15
SRabbelierdiones: is it overrides the property specified with something else13:16
SRabbelierdiones: in this case, the method we use to render HTML13:16
ErantI think you guys can do without the <name>: now13:16
SRabbelierErant: habit13:16
SRabbelierErant: and not anymore, since you interrupted us!13:16
ErantOh, the shame.13:17
dioneshahahahah13:17
SRabbelierErant: did you submit your proposal yet?13:17
ErantNo. Probably won't.13:18
ErantDue to rockbox not accepting ports, there's not enough in Melange to do (security-wise), and me possibly have something else to do over the summer.13:19
Erants/have/having13:19
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dionesSRabbelier: so about the smoke tests13:21
dionesSRabbelier: how do I do them?13:22
dionesSRabbelier: :D13:22
ErantSmoking's bad for you, hmmkay13:22
Lennie|GoneErant, I was more wondering if you submitted a proposal to another org :)13:25
dionesxD13:25
ErantLennie: So, no. I might actually do a rockbox project outside of GSoC though13:25
SRabbelierdiones: what about smoke tests?13:25
ErantPorting it to this: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.1458513:25
tpbTitle: DealExtreme: $47.72 7" Wide Screen TFT LCD Desktop Digital Photo Frame and Video Player with Remote (480*234px) (at www.dealextreme.com)13:25
SRabbelierErant: you _got_ to be kidding me13:26
ErantEither that, or I'm porting Linux to it.13:26
ErantWhat?13:26
SRabbelierErant: a media player on a photo frame?13:26
ErantSure13:26
ErantIt's not just a photo frame.13:26
ErantIt can also play DivX and whatnot13:26
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SRabbelierErant: orly? fancy13:27
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dionesSRabbelier: how does someone create a smoke test?13:29
ErantSRabbelier: Yuh. Got no idea what kind of proc it is though. And there are no existing firmware upgrades. So it's going to be hoping I can find JTAG, or a serial bootloader. I might end up having to dump the flash.13:30
SRabbelierErant: defnitly more than one GSoC13:31
ErantDepends.13:31
SRabbelierdiones: for example, a smoke test would be "create a user profile" by doing a POST with a bunch of arguments and checking that the entity is created13:31
ErantIf I find a serial bootloader, and docs on the proc, it's much faster then if I have to dump and reflash the NAND.13:31
SRabbelierdiones: or it might even just be to check that access to a document is only allowed when the right privilidges are met13:32
SRabbelierErant: indeed, so, since you don't know that, and it probably won't be there -> more than one gsoc13:32
dionesSRabbelier: hmm I see13:32
ErantYup. Still an interesting project.13:32
ErantThough the chances of it being there are actually pretty decent. Chinese tend to steal bootloaders, and then not modify them.13:44
SRabbelierErant: lol13:45
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ajaksuSRabbelier: sorry to drag you into an application-related discussion, thank you very much for your input! would you like an issue filled for 'other'  in degree or is it not worth it?13:55
SRabbelierajaksu: we'll see what lh sez :)13:56
ajaksuok13:56
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LennieSRabbelier: seen http://labs.opera.com/news/2009/04/01/ ?14:19
tpbTitle: Introducing Opera Face Gestures (at labs.opera.com)14:19
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SRabbelierLennie: yup :P14:20
Lennieit's awesome :P14:20
SRabbelierLennie: I read the nu.nl article about april fools jokes14:20
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SRabbelierLennie: Please note that handlebars and goatees are compatible independently but if combined recognition will decrease.14:22
SRabbelierLennie: lmao14:22
SRabbelierLennie: " At the moment soul-patches crashes the browser and it refuses to relaunch, we are looking into this problem. Bushmen beards and emo haircuts are not supported.", omfg, hilarious14:23
jamtodaySRabbelier: I just linked to docs for the django testrunner on the testing wiki page http://code.google.com/p/soc/wiki/TestingGuidelines14:23
tpb<http://ln-s.net/2N$:> (at code.google.com)14:23
SRabbelierjamtoday: ah, good one14:24
pankajkany easy ideas for gsoc14:26
SRabbelierpankajk: nope14:27
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Erantpankajk: It's not about being easy :/14:28
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MatthewWilkesooh, 45 people, busy busy in here14:56
MatthewWilkeshi all!14:56
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Erantohai15:03
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tuxmaniacmadrazr: ping15:19
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SRabbelierMatthewWilkes: heya :)15:27
Erantbtw, SRabbelier: Any intention of going to HAR?15:29
SRabbelierErant: HAR?15:29
ErantHacking at Random?15:29
SRabbelierErant: wossat?15:29
LennieHorse of the Americas Registry15:30
Lennie?15:30
Erant...15:30
Lennielol HAR: Hope After Rape15:30
Lenniehttp://www.acronymfinder.com/HAR.html15:30
tpbTitle: HAR - Definition by AcronymFinder (at www.acronymfinder.com)15:30
MatthewWilkesLennie: Dude…15:30
ErantAlmost thought that came out of your demented mind O_o15:30
SRabbelierLennie: .... dude15:30
ErantAnyway...15:30
ErantMoving on from this awkward situation...\15:30
SRabbelierLennie: totally not appropriate :P15:31
LennieMatthewWilkes, that is an organization that helps victims right?15:31
MatthewWilkesNo clue, but hardly a lol topic15:31
dandersonin any case, I don't see what hydrologic assessment reports have to do with melange15:31
Eranthttps://har2009.org/15:31
tpbTitle: HAR2009 » Hacking at Random (at har2009.org)15:31
SRabbelierdanderson: lol :P15:31
ErantHackfest ftw.15:31
Lenniethat looks more on topic :)15:32
ErantWas wondering if Google was going there. Or maybe Melange.15:32
SRabbelierErant: maybe both!15:32
ErantThe term "5000+ hackers" actually applies here.15:33
ErantAnd is valid.15:33
Erant:P15:33
Lennie^^15:33
Erant"The New York Times likened the 1997 edition to a “Woodstock for Hackers”."15:34
ErantMinus the hippies.15:34
ErantIf it's anything like CCC15:34
Lenniehehe15:35
Lennieit's on a camping?15:35
Lennieanyhow I'm off15:35
Lenniefeeling sick :(15:35
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summatusmentiswoo spam on melange-soc-dev15:51
SRabbeliersummatusmentis: hehe15:51
summatusmentisunless that's you SRabbelier >_>15:52
SRabbeliersummatusmentis: it's already deleted right?15:52
summatusmentisI saw two by a jtyjfj, but nothing about deletion15:53
SRabbeliersummatusmentis: twas deleteded15:53
summatusmentisk15:53
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* lh waves to dan15:55
SRabbelierdbentle1, dbentley-laptop: you mailed? :)15:56
waldihow can I get rid of a student role?15:58
ErantSRabbelier: How's your reverse engineering?16:00
SRabbelierErant: uhm, why?16:02
SRabbelierwaldi: you can't16:02
SRabbelierwaldi: why do you want to?16:02
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waldiSRabbelier: switch from student to mentor16:07
SRabbelierwaldi: ask solydzajs16:08
SRabbelierwaldi: he can delete your student role16:08
solydzajswhat's up ?16:08
SRabbeliersolydzajs: waldi needs his student role deleted so he can be a mentor16:08
solydzajswaldi: did you submitted some proposals ?16:10
waldinope16:10
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EllenKoHello Melange Developers,16:11
* MatthewWilkes waves to EllenKo 16:11
SRabbelierEllenKo: o hi ^^16:11
EllenKoI am trying to get an export of the student data (names, addresses) to give to our payment card company16:11
EllenKoactually, someone from Google just needs to look at dummy data,16:12
EllenKobut in our format, so she knows how to make it fit the payment card people's template16:12
EllenKosrabbelier: hi!16:12
SRabbelierEllenKo: I can give you a full export by the time you need it, no worries :)16:13
EllenKocan I get one now, just so our accounting person can know what to expect when the list is actually finalized?16:13
SRabbelierEllenKo: uhm, expect all the data you need that's in the system I guess?16:14
EllenKoI just need something to show how the data will be formatted16:14
EllenKofor the students16:15
SRabbelierEllenKo: however you want, I can give you a csv export16:15
SRabbelierEllenKo: I can remove columns you don't need16:15
SRabbelierEllenKo: you tell me what you need16:15
EllenKothat would be great.16:15
EllenKoNames and addresses16:15
lhsolydzajs: may i ask you for a student applicant count and proposal count please16:16
SRabbelierlh: I can do it :)16:16
SRabbelierlh: have the script ready anyway16:16
lhSRabbelier: okey dokey, sounds good16:17
solydzajswaldi, please send me an email to pawel.solyga (at) gmail.com with your link id from your Google Account that you use for socghop.appspot.com16:18
ErantSRabbelier: Just got an interesting challenge in my inbox. New llvm based obfuscation.16:18
solydzajslh: yes doing it now one sec16:18
lhsolydzajs: merci16:18
SRabbelierErant: Unladen Swallow?16:19
SRabbeliersolydzajs: I'm thinking of making it work incrementally16:19
SRabbeliersolydzajs: using last_modified and created_on16:19
waldisolydzajs: "link id"?16:19
ErantSRabbelier: Nah, from an israely company.16:19
SRabbelierwaldi: yes, you set it in /user/edit_profile16:19
waldiah, okay16:20
Erant's interesting. IDA Pro can't render the graph of the code because it's too big.16:20
SRabbelierErant: that's.... nice hack :P16:21
waldisolydzajs: sent16:21
solydzajswaldi: will check in a minute16:21
solydzajswaldi: done.16:22
solydzajswaldi: let me know if it works16:25
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VDVsxhello all16:49
VDVsxsome of our student's apps are in the ineligible list, but none of our mentor mark them.16:50
VDVsxThe student's can withdraw proposals in melange ?16:50
SRabbelierVDVsx: yes16:50
VDVsxSRabbelier, ok, thanks16:50
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dbentley-laptopHello all.17:23
James--Crookdbentley-laptop: Hi Dan.  +1 on better GettingStartedGuide.17:26
James--CrookAren't you a tad sleep deprived at the moment?17:26
ErantCan sleep when you're dead.17:26
SRabbelierErant: also, can be dead from no sleep17:26
SRabbelierErant: so fine edge you walk right there17:26
James--CrookHi Erant, so you're not applying to Melange?  Waaaaah :-(17:27
SRabbelierJames--Crook: he's a big ol' slacker17:27
ErantUhhuh.17:27
James--CrookHe'd fit right in :-)17:28
ErantBurn.17:28
James--CrookSRabbelier: so any thoghts on me adding those two issues?17:28
SRabbelierJames--Crook: that's harsh :P17:28
SRabbelierJames--Crook: right, about that17:29
James--CrookI mean it's been at least 5 hours and no reply....  slacker slacker... :-)17:29
SRabbelierJames--Crook: we removed all those stories and future issues from view because people were going "well, this tracker is so full, it's like last years where no-one is doing anything with my issues, I'm not even going to bother"17:29
SRabbelierJames--Crook: 23 hours even :P17:29
James--CrookYes, It's undertsandable.17:29
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James--Crook...understandable marking issues which are not closed as closed....  (oh dear that sounds sarcastic and it's not meant to be)17:30
ErantJames: So I'm probably going to be working on an embedded project, and I've also got a job to worry about.17:30
SRabbelierJames--Crook: also, I think two more issues won't do much harm in cluttering the issue tracker, I won't close them, but I'm not sure how high I want them in the priority-list, mhh17:30
ErantAnd _maaybe_ I'm going to wiggle my way into a security evaluation company.17:30
SRabbelierErant: keep dreaming17:31
James--CrookErant: Way more important that you do what calls to you... and embedded clearly does.  (as does the lucre of a real job)17:31
SRabbelierJames--Crook: you speak wise words :)17:31
James--CrookErant: and if you want to hack the metro and stuff then embedded is essential...17:31
* SRabbelier cackles17:31
SRabbelierJames--Crook: he's totally going to do that you know17:31
ErantJames: Well, I actually already have a job ;)17:32
SRabbelierJames--Crook: one of these days, there's going to be the Erant card17:32
* Erant whistles17:32
James--Crook(already he has....  I'm watching him :-) )17:32
SRabbelierJames--Crook: which allows you to walk into our uni with it thinking you're the rector magnificus :P17:32
ErantSRabbelier: We're actually in the process of designing the PCB now17:32
James--Crookcareful... this is a family channel17:32
SRabbelierErant: what it do?17:32
SRabbelierJames--Crook: hehe17:32
ErantOur resident VHDL genius wrote the code already for Miller decoding and Manchester encoding. So now we're looking at a likely candidate for the CPU.17:33
James--CrookSRabbelier: anyway... any harm if I add those two issues or would you rather I didn't?17:33
ErantSRabbelier: Interfaces to one of those RFID readers, makes them 10 times more 1337.17:33
Erant1337 as in: Will do _aaaanything_ you want.17:33
SRabbelierErant: hehe, fancy pancy17:34
ErantBecause the interface we're using is basically the digital representation of what's happening at the RF side.17:34
SRabbelierJames--Crook: how about making it Type-Task?17:34
James--CrookIn the Irish times today it said they are thinking of RFID tagging 'tax exiles' to track them...  so we can see if they are really out of the country for the time they say they are.17:35
James--CrookGood idea.  Pity that it was an April Fool.17:35
ErantI'm thinking of tagging my shoes. And my gloves. And my toothbrush. And socks.17:36
ErantActually.17:36
James--Crook...so they don't get stolen?   Phah... who would want to steal your socks?17:36
* Erant looks for something interesting to tag.17:36
ErantNo, for identification purposes, obv.17:36
James--CrookUmm.  This is a family channel.17:36
Erant:P17:36
* Erant takes shoes.17:37
James--CrookType Task works for me too, if that is not a closed issue, but doesn't that push it up the list?17:37
ErantSweet. I now have RFID tagged shoes.17:39
James--CrookSRabbelier: Oh, I just looked...  task is below enhancement.  Yes that works fine.17:39
James--CrookErant: I thought RFIDs confused the scanner if they were too close to each other... hence the door DOS attack where you stick an RFID strip near to the door scanner.  How close can they be and still be distinguished?17:41
SRabbelierJames--Crook: ok, go for it then :)17:42
SRabbelierErant: you got to be kidding me17:42
ErantSRabbelier: You must know me well enough by now to know that that is not a joke.17:42
James--CrookSRabbelier: Will do, though maybe not tonight.  Lots to do with the Audacity GSoC (even though I am not officially involved this year).17:42
ErantJames: No? RFID has anti-collision.17:42
SRabbelierErant: *sighs*, it's all to true17:43
SRabbelierJames--Crook: hehe, funny how those things work17:43
James--CrookErant: And it works well?17:43
ErantDecent enough. The algorithms are public though, so you can block out one specific tag if you knew it's UID.17:44
ErantBy sending out bogus information right at it's time slots.17:44
James--CrookErant: And you could block em all out if you can sink the energy...  but not with a standard tag?17:45
ErantSweet. It works.17:45
ErantJames: Euh, no. Needs to be an active tag17:45
ErantAnd we're building one :)17:46
ErantNow what do I make my shoe do...17:46
James--CrookNow you can tell which is your right shoe and which is your left...  Most of us got there years ago, but harah for technology.17:46
ErantExactly17:46
ErantOOOH17:46
ErantMake it pop up "LEFT" and "RIGHT" really big.17:46
James--CrookI shall leave this channel before Erant gets too many other ideas.17:47
SRabbelierErant: lol.... :P17:47
ErantNo no no, stay. I have 38 other tags I can stick onto random stuff17:47
SRabbelierlol17:47
ErantBottom of a coffee cup doesn't work too well. I need to be able to wash that.17:48
SRabbelier-_-"17:48
SRabbelierErant: chair?17:48
Erantlol17:50
ErantTeh awsum. I can make my left and right shoes control the volume on my PC17:50
ErantI am so doing that17:50
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ErantRight, time for sleep.18:33
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SRabbelierErant: that was like, hours ago18:33
Eranttru dat18:33
Erantnm then18:33
MatthewWilkesCan we reimplement melange on Zope 4?  It's the new next-gen python framework18:34
MatthewWilkesLook at the logo: http://blingee.com/blingee/view/87449265-Blingee !18:34
tpb<http://ln-s.net/35Wc> (at blingee.com)18:34
MatthewWilkesHow can you say no to that?18:34
ErantThat site hurts my eyes18:35
MatthewWilkesWell, if anyone wants more info on Zope 4, we're in #zope418:35
MatthewWilkesIt's really easy to use, all site config is done in HTML4, as XML is too complicated18:36
Erantlol18:36
dbentley-laptopHey Melange.18:36
dbentley-laptopSo, sverre:  how do we mail so many people at once?18:37
dbentley-laptopRemote API?18:37
SRabbelierdbentley-laptop: nope, we have an AJAX script atm :P18:37
SRabbelierdbentley-laptop: that just pokes at an URL which makes it process a proposal18:37
ErantOh, that's not icky at all.18:38
ErantThat's... euhm...18:38
SRabbelierMatthewWilkes: april fools, right?18:38
Erantingenious.18:38
SRabbelierErant: that's a nasty hack, that's what it is18:38
ErantI didn't want to say it.18:38
SRabbelierErant: so much for GAE having long running/scheduled tasks18:38
SRabbelierErant: yes you did you big fat liar :p18:39
Erant:P18:39
Erantk, yes I did.18:39
SRabbelier:P18:39
ErantThough18:39
ErantThere's the good kind of 'nasty hack'. And there's the bad kind.18:39
SRabbelierErant: yours are usually of the latter kind18:39
ErantI'll leave it up to the viewer to decide which bin to toss this one in.18:40
SRabbeliers/usually//18:40
ErantPfrt.18:40
ErantI have elegant solutions.18:40
SRabbelierI don't think many would agree18:40
ErantLiek try/catch for file IO.18:40
dbentley-laptopHrm; okay.18:40
ErantIt was asum.18:40
ErantI must've made a few people go seriously crazy in my first year.18:41
Erantbash-head-into-wall-till-it-bleeds crazy.18:41
SRabbelierErant: indeed18:42
Erant"You... you what?" "Well, I just made this hash algorithm ... and this way it all works". "AAAAAAHHHH!"18:42
ErantMaybe not such a good idea to use C hax in Java.18:43
SRabbelierErant: I think it was actually like:18:43
SRabbeliertry {18:43
SRabbelierfor(int i = 0;; i++) {18:43
SRabbelier  // do stuff }18:43
SRabbelier } catch(IndexOutOfBoundsException) {}18:43
SRabbelierErant: actually, that's what hasCode() is for :P18:43
ErantThat was one of 'm.18:43
ErantYeah, I reimplemented that at one point18:44
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ErantI also did the try/catch for a file IO operation where I didn't know where the EOF was.18:44
ErantBut then again, Java fails at IO operations in general.18:45
SRabbelier**hashCode18:45
SRabbelierdbentley-laptop: so can we have this guy on standby when sending out student acceptance mails?18:45
ErantSleep for real now though18:46
SRabbelierErant: g'night!18:46
*** Erant was kicked by SRabbelier (SRabbelier)18:46
SRabbelieronly way to get rid of the bugger18:46
lhlol18:46
SRabbelier^_^18:46
SRabbelierlh: I'd do the same with you to send you to bed, but people would complain18:47
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Erantfu18:47
dbentley-laptopYes; we can.18:47
SRabbelierErant: Go sleep! :P18:47
lhlol18:47
ErantAm now. But you won't know. Through the magic of bouncers.18:47
*** Erant was kicked by SRabbelier (don't make me ban you! :P)18:47
dbentley-laptopBut if we have a way to simulate this load earlier, that'd be great.18:47
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dbentley-laptopBecause we can have time ot fight fighers.18:47
ErantDon't MAKE me come down there18:47
SRabbelierlol :P18:47
Erant'nite ;)18:47
SRabbelierdbentley-laptop: mhhhh, we could set up a bunch of entities on melange-dev18:48
SRabbelierdbentley-laptop: and have them all send mails to [email protected]? :P18:48
dbentley-laptopYeah.18:48
SRabbelierbut that won't help us in the case the problem lies in who we mail18:49
SRabbelieror the mailing of many different people18:49
SRabbelieretc.18:49
SRabbelierdbentley-laptop: ^^^18:50
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dbentley-laptopYeah.18:54
dbentley-laptopThat makes sense.18:54
SRabbelierdbentley-laptop: so it's something that shouldn't be happening?18:56
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vinoddo i need to submit any certificates to GSoC to prove my identity. if so when to submit them?19:44
SRabbeliervinod: wrong channel19:45
vinodok thank you.19:45
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GMWeezelHello, I just submitted a proposal for figleaf testing to GSoC. Would someone remind reviewing it and giving me some feedback?20:08
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MatthewWilkesGMWeezel: Most of the Melange dev team is based in Europe, they've all gone to bed now, best to email the mailing list20:11
GMWeezelAlright, thank you.20:11
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ajaksuGMWeezel: figleaf for melange or in general? either way, the 'testing in python' mailing list could get you some nice feedback :)20:17
ajaksuGMWeezel: http://lists.idyll.org/listinfo/testing-in-python20:17
tpb<http://ln-s.net/35Xj> (at lists.idyll.org)20:17
GMWeezelfigleaf for melange20:20
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paulitexsdfgs23:31
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Nikhello everybody!!!23:52
Nikis there any gsoc 2009 aspirant here???23:53
NikHi, I am Swagnik Chatterjee23:54
NikI am very interested to apply for Melange in GSOC200923:54
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