Wednesday, 2009-01-28

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tlarsenSRabbelier: Yes, the "user_self" view was old and crufty, but it was customized to make it easy to use.  I hope that customization has not been undone by the recent refactoring.11:29
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Lennietlarsen, please try something before marking patches as -111:34
tlarsenLennie: Which one?11:35
tlarsenLennie: The TODO was definitely a -1.11:35
Lenniedefault value for ToS :p11:35
Lennieyeah the TODO was something I ran into11:35
Lennieand apparently we thought about it ^_^11:36
tlarsenLennie: Adding a default to agrees_to_tos and eliminating the None state is also a -1.11:36
tlarsenThose are the only two I gave -1.11:36
Lennieit's the 2nd one11:36
Lenniethe system still stands11:36
tlarsenYou cannot make someones answer False for them.11:36
tlarsenIt is an answer to a legal document.  You need "Yes", "No", and "no answer yet".11:37
LennieThere is no "no answer yet" since it's clear that if there is no ToS you have not agreed to one11:37
tlarsenThat is the way I originally implemented it, and I tested that it worked that way.11:37
LennieGo try out the latest rev and see that it still stands11:38
Lennieand it finally works as it should11:39
Lennieyou can't overwrite any accounts11:39
Lennieand you can't resuse the emailadress11:39
tlarsenLennie: Yes, the improvements are nice.11:40
LennieDoes legal care about wheter or not you looked at it and disagreed or that you didn't look at it at all?11:41
tlarsenLennie: In the U.S. at least, you should not assume that someones answer is "no".11:41
tlarsenLennie: If there were not terms of service, and now there are, you have to assume their answer is "I haven't seen them yet".11:41
tlarsenNone == "I haven't seen them yet"11:42
solydzajsLennie: I agree with tlarsen here.11:42
tlarsenThis should be easy to fix:11:42
solydzajsLennie: None state is needed.11:42
tlarsen1) remove the default=False from agrees_to_tos11:42
tlarsen2) in the clean_agrees_to_tos method, return None, if the ToS do not exist and there is not already a value for that property11:42
tlarsenIf they already answered True or False, and then the admin (temporarily?) removes the ToS, don't change their answer to None.11:43
tlarsenIf they never *had* an answer, because there never was a ToS (at least since they've been using the site), and there still isn't a ToS, keep the answer None.11:44
tlarsenThe old checkAgreesToSiteToS() (that got folded into checkIsUser(), another change I disagree with, but that's a different story...) would already allow them access to the site if there was no active ToS, regardless of the True/False/None state of agrees_to_tos.11:45
solydzajsok solved11:47
solydzajslet's move to something more interesting ;-)11:47
tlarsensolydzajs: I guess I will spend my day working on Melange next week fixing this.11:51
Lenniefixing what?11:51
tlarsenLennie: Fixing the tri-state-ness of agrees_to_tos11:51
Lennieyou need a day for that?11:51
LennieI already fixed it :S11:51
Lennie2 min ago11:52
tlarsenDid you commit it?11:52
solydzajsLennie: you didn't fix everything11:52
Lenniewhat's still broken then?11:52
solydzajsLennie: you just did 1)11:52
Lennieif not site_logic.getToS(site_logic.getSingleton()):11:53
Lennie# no site-wide ToS in effect, so let the User slide for now11:53
Lenniereturn True11:53
Lennieread access check11:53
Lennieauto true when no ToS11:53
Lennieso I dont know what's wrong with 2)11:53
tlarsenLennie: That is on the access control side.  We still need to be sure we don't store a False in the datastore when there was no checkbox for the user to select anything (because there was no ToS).11:53
Lenniebut you'd probably be spending your day on something else then :)11:53
tlarsenLennie: It is a more interesting problem than you realize.11:53
tlarsenLennie: Google Legal can be *very* picky.11:54
Lennieso that's just it11:54
Lennieif there has never been a tos11:54
Lennieon moment of signup11:54
Lenniethere should be None11:54
tlarsenLennie: Interestingly, though, once there is a ToS in place, there is no way to actually answer False.  :)11:54
Lennieyes lawyers11:55
Lenniethey should shoot them into the moon :P11:55
tlarsenLet's just make SRabbelier's change.11:55
tlarsenTrue == "I have read and agree to the Terms of Service"11:55
tlarsenFalse == "I have not read or agreed to the Terms of Service"11:55
tlarsenThere is no way to answer False once the Terms of Service are present, since you cannot submit your profile without the checkbox being checked.11:56
Lenniejust a matter of interpatation11:57
Lenniebut I'll have it fixed in 5 min11:57
Lenniejust hang on :P11:57
Lenniethen you can go and do more useful stuff on your day for Melange11:57
solydzajsgood ;-)11:57
Lennieor you can test it then :)11:57
Lennieso that you dont have to fix it :D11:57
tlarsenOK, I've said all I am going to say.  My replies are attached to the changeset threads.12:00
solydzajstlarsen: Todd regarding when organization can see how many slots they will get, should we implement that as on/off switch or timeline field ?12:02
tlarsensolydzajs: You should ask Leslie that.12:02
tlarsensolydzajs: I don't have a preference one way or the other, so my choice would be "which ever is easiest to implement".  :)12:03
solydzajstlarsen: yep I will, just wondering what's you opinion12:03
tlarsensolydzajs: But then, Leslie wouldn't like that choice, perhaps.12:03
solydzajsheh :-)12:03
tlarsensolydzajs: So, to avoid the possibility of implementing it twice, check with Leslie.12:03
tlarsenYou could create a User Story and send her the link, asking her to comment.  :)12:04
solydzajstlarsen: will do12:04
tlarsen"When all you have is an issue tracker, everything looks like an issue..." :)12:04
tlarsens/issue tracker/hammer/   s/issue/nail/  for those of you not familiar with the common English expression.12:05
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tlarsenOK, I have flipped the agrees_to_tos stuff to Leslie.12:50
solydzajstlarsen: Lennie committed some fixes, did you see them ?12:50
tlarsensolydzajs: Yes, but he and I had an off-line discussion.12:51
solydzajstlarsen: ah ok12:51
solydzajstlarsen: and what's the summary of the discussion ?12:51
tlarsensolydzajs: The problem is more complex than I originally thought, so I am taking the channel's advice to let legal folks comment (through Leslie).12:52
solydzajstlarsen: ok sounds good12:52
tlarsensolydzajs: Check your inbox.  :)12:52
solydzajstlarsen: yep my inbox is full ;-)12:52
tpb<> (at
solydzajstlarsen: ok thx13:02
Lennie|Foodtlarsen: discussion was good, atleast we have a possible working system :P13:04
Lennie|Foodin which you can never disagree after agreeing anymore13:04
Lennie|Foodbut we'll see what legal says ^_ ^13:04
SRabbeliertlarsen: I fixed the site having a delete button issue13:18
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tlarsenSRabbelier: OK, assign it to me with a comment asking it to be verified.14:32
solydzajstlarsen: ping14:53
tlarsenJust a head's up:  Monday is going to become my "Melange day", and I won't be on the IRC channel except on Mondays from next week onward.14:56
solydzajstlarsen: ok14:57
solydzajstlarsen: thx for update14:57
tlarsenAlso, I will not necessarily be responding to Melange emails the same day, and definitely not in minutes.  :)14:58
tlarsenSo, with that, chat with you all on Monday!14:58
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tlarsen|busy(bug Leslie if you need something urgent, and she can decide to escalate it to me, thanks)15:00
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