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| msh | is there a good benchmark for nextpnr speed anywhere? I'm trying to improve routing1 speed which takes a couple of hours for a ecp5 85k, but it's hard to know if I'm improving things (think it does though) since runtimes jump around so much between runs | 06:37 |
|---|---|---|
| killjoy | This is like the perpetual question. | 06:58 |
| killjoy | In my experience, you find something that seems to run consistently, and you work on improving that, but with many of these algorithms it's next to impossible to tell sometimes. | 06:59 |
| killjoy | And especially with pnr software. | 07:00 |
| killjoy | Since it usually is just "place randomly, route, see if you meet timing." | 07:00 |
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| tnt | I thought it was about trying to improve runtime, not the QoR. | 07:05 |
| tnt | The only way is to average ... a lot ... like do 100s runs over 100s designs. | 07:06 |
| killjoy | That's how I've done it before too. | 07:06 |
| killjoy | But msh asked about "a good benchmark," which implies 1 benchmark, and most of the tools I've used keep churning if the QoR isn't high enough. | 07:08 |
| killjoy | Which is why it takes so long. | 07:09 |
| tnt | well "1 benchmark" can be a script running 100s of design with 100s of seeds ... that's often what benchmarks are actually, aggregates of a lot of smaller problems. | 07:11 |
| tnt | I know there was a beginning of this with running a picosoc design a bunch of times ... not sure where that repo is. | 07:13 |
| tnt | but I haven't seen anything "pre-made" / "ready-to-use" with a lot of diversity or anything like that. That's yet TBD. | 07:13 |
| jix | one trick for optimizing algorithms with such runtime behaviour that works sometimes is to find some quantity X (e.g. iterations of something) that you can measure and that correlates with runtime but is (mostly) invariant wrt the optimization you're doing... then you use time per X as target to optimize for | 07:46 |
| jix | for example in a SAT solver you have similar problems, the smallest changes cascade to chaotic runtime differences, but if you want to tune the unit propagation (inner loop of a solver) you can use propagations / sec and get something that's more stable than the overall runtime | 07:48 |
| msh | ok yep. benchmarking inner loops sounds like it would help | 09:39 |
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| msh | is a couple of hours in the normal range of runtimes for nextpnr? | 09:43 |
| gatecat | it shouldn't be, but things aren't perfect as far as congestion is concerned | 09:49 |
| gatecat | you can try with router2 (`--router router2`) but tbh it's a WIP and more likely to make things worse atm | 09:49 |
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| msh | gatecat ok will give it a try tomorrow | 09:59 |
| gatecat | thanks, if you can link your design somewhere I can also take a look and keep it in mind when I work on optimisations | 10:04 |
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