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| solydzajs | MatthewWilkes: ping | 07:39 |
|---|---|---|
| MatthewWilkes | solydzajs: pong | 07:48 |
| solydzajs | MatthewWilkes: hi :-) just wondering if there was any progress ?;-) | 07:48 |
| MatthewWilkes | solydzajs: Sure, did some catching up on how the acls have changed since we last spoke, seems simple enough, started on the pattern used for displaying lists to display the comments, so they can be easily inserted into other pages | 07:49 |
| MatthewWilkes | I'm still learning, so been refactoring, that's why I've not sent any diffs | 07:50 |
| solydzajs | MatthewWilkes: ok sure :-) thx | 07:51 |
| solydzajs | MatthewWilkes: how long do you think it will take you ? | 07:51 |
| MatthewWilkes | solydzajs: I'm still aiming to meet the end of the month deadline, I mean I have the models in place, the create form is the blocker for me at the moment | 07:53 |
| solydzajs | ok that would be awesome | 07:53 |
| solydzajs | keep me posted | 07:53 |
| MatthewWilkes | Ok, I'll take another bash at it tonight | 07:55 |
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| bhy | Hi, is anyone working on student model / student registration? | 11:05 |
| bhy | I think the student model is incomplete, at least it should referenced to an application/document? | 11:08 |
| bhy | any ideas? | 11:08 |
| MatthewWilkes | bhy: Applications are done by creating a reference between a proposal and a user | 11:09 |
| bhy | oh, yes.. | 11:11 |
| bhy | proposal is a work, any work has a author | 11:13 |
| bhy | So why not work inherit from document? | 11:15 |
| solydzajs | class Document(soc.models.work.Work): | 11:16 |
| solydzajs | document inherits from Work | 11:16 |
| bhy | I think I should read more about the models :) | 11:18 |
| bhy | should we have a "Student Register" at sidebar? | 11:35 |
| bhy | If so, which section? User (self) ? | 11:36 |
| MatthewWilkes | bhy: The thing is, students registering is different for different programmes | 11:37 |
| bhy | isn't student registered and then join different programmes? | 11:38 |
| MatthewWilkes | Ah, sorry, thought you meant joining programmes | 11:43 |
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| bhy | but how a role and a program connected? | 11:51 |
| bhy | I can't find the connection.. | 11:52 |
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| bhy | eg. is there really a joining process? | 11:52 |
| Lennie | role is connected through the scope property | 11:56 |
| Lennie | bhy, try to take a look at clubs | 11:58 |
| Lennie | that might help you with your questions about applications and stuff | 11:58 |
| bhy | ok | 11:59 |
| bhy | just a bit confused, so it means each year we should register a new role for the program? | 12:00 |
| bhy | also, club member and student is different entity, so these personal info duplicated? | 12:01 |
| tlarsen | bhy: Yes, the plan is to pre-populate a new Role form with the last one that the User already filled out. | 12:02 |
| tlarsen | bhy: But, yes, each Role is separate for each Program. | 12:03 |
| tlarsen | bhy: http://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=39 | 12:03 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/2mTr> (at code.google.com) | 12:03 |
| tlarsen | bhy: In the past, some participants have wanted to provide a different address based on the time of year that the program was running (to have stuff--tshirts and payments--shipped, say, to school for one program, and to their home for another) | 12:05 |
| bhy | but is it a kind of redundancy form database's perspective | 12:05 |
| bhy | em, indeed | 12:06 |
| tlarsen | bhy: Yes, but the App Engine Datastore encourages redundancy to make sharding easier. | 12:06 |
| tlarsen | bhy: The goal in App Engine is *not* to have a completely normalized database, for example. | 12:06 |
| tlarsen | bhy: Joins are *very* expensive. | 12:06 |
| bhy | em, a bit difference :) | 12:07 |
| tlarsen | bhy: Data storage is cheap, so a certain amount of duplication to avoid needing to do joins is encouraged. | 12:07 |
| bhy | then how about the user experience side? | 12:07 |
| bhy | for example, I want to change my ship address | 12:07 |
| MatthewWilkes | +1 on that decision, if you've ever had to try and roll out a system that some gimp has made lots of stored procedures and "clever things" in you'll know what a pain it can be getting it to run | 12:08 |
| tlarsen | That has been discussed as well. | 12:08 |
| tlarsen | Let me see if I can find the issue. | 12:08 |
| bhy | then I should change it for each role? (club member, student etc) | 12:08 |
| tlarsen | bhy: http://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=38 | 12:08 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/2mTy> (at code.google.com) | 12:08 |
| tlarsen | bhy: We have thought of these things, honest. :) | 12:09 |
| bhy | let me see :) | 12:09 |
| bhy | I think I got it | 12:10 |
| bhy | thanks tlarsen :) | 12:11 |
| tlarsen | bhy: This setup is designed to incur the expensive operations at update time (which only happen when someone changes information), instead of at query time (which happens a lot). | 12:11 |
| bhy | wow, got it | 12:12 |
| bhy | so we have fast query and flexible scheme | 12:12 |
| lh | i have a couple of quick questions please | 12:16 |
| MatthewWilkes | lh! | 12:17 |
| lh | 1) if i edit the site settings to update socghop.appspot.com, will that data be wiped when we push the latest version? | 12:17 |
| lh | MatthewWilkes: hello dear | 12:17 |
| lh | :) | 12:17 |
| tlarsen | lh: no, but... | 12:17 |
| lh | tlarsen: what's the but? | 12:17 |
| tlarsen | lh: there is no official release running on socghop.appspot.com yet. | 12:17 |
| tlarsen | lh: So, don't put anything you don't want wiped there yet. | 12:18 |
| lh | tlarsen: when can i begin adding data to socghop.appspot.com? | 12:18 |
| lh | specifically, i need to update the site home page (socghop.appspot.com) and get the 2009 FAQs in the system ready for publication (but still hidden for now) | 12:18 |
| lh | the 2009 FAQs would need to be displayed in the left hand nav for all those visiting socghop.appspot.com, much like the site terms of service are now | 12:19 |
| tlarsen | I've given the committers until the release branch cut for the Monday call (until 10:00 AM CST / 4:00 PM UTC) to make schema-breaking changes. | 12:19 |
| lh | tlarsen: so at that point i can add data to the system and not worry about it being wiped later on when there are additional pushes, etc.? | 12:19 |
| tlarsen | lh: After that release branch is cut, I will "vendor branch" it to /p/soc-google/. | 12:20 |
| tlarsen | That "official Google fork" will get pushed to the socghop.appspot.com App Engine instance some time after that. | 12:20 |
| lh | ok. what does that mean for data i have already put into the system? | 12:20 |
| tlarsen | lh: Yes, the policy is going to be that I will not branch code into /p/soc-google/ that will break the schema. | 12:20 |
| tlarsen | lh: No guarantees, since they already broke the schema once this week. | 12:21 |
| tlarsen | lh: Sorry, that is the best I can promise. | 12:21 |
| tlarsen | lh: We haven't had any sort of official release discipline until this. | 12:21 |
| tlarsen | Jeff and I (and the interns working with us) always took care of this for the old GSoC web app. :) | 12:21 |
| lh | Okay, you are talking schemas and I am talking about data and documents. I don't know how one affects the other. So to clarify, I can input data into the system after the release branch is pushed on Monday and hopefully it will still be there later. Is that a correct assessment? | 12:22 |
| tlarsen | lh: So, until I announce on gsoc-tech that there is an official Google release of Melange running on socghop.appspot.com, it is just a demo. | 12:22 |
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| lh | And after that I take it that documents created within the system, e.g. http://socghop.appspot.com/document/edit/site/tos will remain at that url and likely not be blown away by future releases? | 12:23 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/2mU:> (at socghop.appspot.com) | 12:23 |
| tlarsen | lh: They will *not* be blown away. I won't permit it. | 12:23 |
| lh | Okay, excellent. | 12:23 |
| tlarsen | lh: We will not incorporate code from the public Melange that includes schema breakage, if I can help it. | 12:24 |
| tlarsen | lh: We should have started launch review *last week* according to Jeff, so we have to start stabilizing things and locking stuff down. | 12:24 |
| tlarsen | lh: There is much more to running GSoC on Melange than just what goes on in Melange. | 12:25 |
| lh | tlarsen: according to chris, we don't need to do formal launch reviews, so I am totally confused there. | 12:25 |
| lh | tlarsen: Yep, absolutely. | 12:25 |
| lh | in any case | 12:25 |
| tlarsen | lh: Hmmm. That is contradictory to everything I have heard from anyone else. There *are* App Engine launch reviews, and for good reason. | 12:25 |
| tlarsen | lh: I certainly don't want Google's official name put on a site that is unreliable. | 12:25 |
| lh | tlarsen: i have the mail from chris if you would like me to forward. i am as surprised as you are. | 12:26 |
| tlarsen | lh: We have to *at least* hit the reliability of the old web app. | 12:26 |
| tlarsen | lh: Please do forward it. | 12:26 |
| lh | tlarsen: i don't know what to tell you todd. | 12:26 |
| lh | ok, will do. | 12:26 |
| lh | mail forwarded | 12:27 |
| lh | ok, next question | 12:27 |
| lh | So next question - I would like to create the FAQ document on socghop.appspot.com, though I would not like it to be published until after my speech at FOSDEM on 8 February. if I input the data into the system now, no one who is not a developer on socghop.appspot.com can see the document, correct? | 12:28 |
| lh | correction: a developer who is *also* signed into the system. | 12:29 |
| N4L|Lennie | everyone can see it | 12:30 |
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| Lennie | so you'd better not ^_^ | 12:30 |
| lh | Lennie: i just experimented by adding the old faqs to the system and they do not show up in the left hand nav, whether or not the document is featured. | 12:31 |
| lh | is that because the current version of melange on socghop.appspot.com is not the latest release? | 12:31 |
| Lennie | as long as you dont tell anybody which scope path and link id you are using no one can find it | 12:31 |
| Lennie | but you can't move the document to another location | 12:32 |
| Lennie | and the document creator is undergoing changes by SRabbelier | 12:32 |
| lh | Lennie: okay, that's good to know. so let's say i want to input all 2009 faqs and have them displayed via a link in the site left hand nav, to all site visitors whether or not they are signed in (like the fake Terms of service are now). | 12:33 |
| lh | But not display the document until after my speech at FOSDEM. | 12:33 |
| lh | Is this possible? | 12:33 |
| Lennie | no | 12:33 |
| Lennie | documents will be redone soon | 12:33 |
| lh | Ok. | 12:33 |
| Lennie | tlarsen is already putting way too much pressure on the project | 12:33 |
| Lennie | defensive coding sucks | 12:34 |
| Lennie | but for the 3 things he mentioned in the mail stuff should be done by monday | 12:34 |
| Lennie | you'd probably wont be able to do the real FAQ untill the program is created | 12:35 |
| lh | all right then. so what's the best solution for now in terms of publishing our FAQs? perhaps i should just put them into a google document and link those from the site home page at socghop.appspot.com | 12:36 |
| Lennie | we hope to have that ready on monday as well | 12:36 |
| bhy | is the melange-dev.appspot.com up to date? | 12:36 |
| lh | Lennie: okay, great. | 12:36 |
| Lennie | yeah for the time being | 12:36 |
| * lh makes note of this | 12:36 | |
| bhy | the urls in Create Club Member view seems strange .. | 12:36 |
| bhy | http://melange-dev.appspot.com/club_member/create | 12:36 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/2mUL> (at melange-dev.appspot.com) | 12:36 |
| * lh goes to a meeting, bbl | 12:36 | |
| Lennie | bhy, yeah | 12:37 |
| Lennie | fixed | 12:37 |
| Lennie | dev is not running latest version ^_ ^ | 12:37 |
| tlarsen | Lennie: sorry, but if we are going to run GSoC 2009 on Melange, some things have to start happening *now*. | 12:37 |
| bhy | indeed .. | 12:38 |
| tlarsen | lh: Are you really planning on using sites for a bunch of stuff? | 12:38 |
| tlarsen | lh: I think we should just add some sort of "not public" ability to Document for you, if that is what is needed. | 12:38 |
| Lennie | tlarsen: if you dont want scheme changes dont go adding temp stuff | 12:39 |
| Lennie | just give sverre a few more days | 12:39 |
| Lennie | tlarsen, if you want to lock down on monday you should spend some time on the public templates ;0 | 12:42 |
| Lennie | and make them show only the information that should be public | 12:42 |
| Lennie | (if you want to up the branch cut on monday to the gsocghop place) | 12:42 |
| tlarsen | Lennie: public templates? | 12:43 |
| Lennie | yosh | 12:43 |
| tlarsen | Lennie: changing templates after the fact is not going to break anything. | 12:43 |
| Lennie | that's not what I meant | 12:43 |
| tlarsen | Lennie: If you remove something from being displayed, it just goes away. | 12:44 |
| Lennie | I mean you cant launch this app when it's showing public info :P | 12:44 |
| tlarsen | I am not worried about cosmetic imperfections. | 12:44 |
| Lennie | that shouldn't be public | 12:44 |
| tlarsen | Lennie: Wanna bet? | 12:44 |
| Lennie | k | 12:44 |
| Lennie | fine by me :P | 12:44 |
| Lennie | I can find out where you live ^_^ | 12:44 |
| tlarsen | The whole point of Leslie sending out an invite to former GSoC mentors is so that they can *complain* when something is displayed publicly that they don't want displayed. | 12:44 |
| Lennie | k | 12:44 |
| Lennie | fine by me :D | 12:44 |
| Lennie | so it's not a real launch then | 12:45 |
| Lennie | but just more of a start complaining ^_ ^? | 12:45 |
| tlarsen | Leslie will need to craft the invite email to make it very clear that this is an early release so that we can gather feedback on security, privacy issues, and the like. | 12:45 |
| Lennie | that's true | 12:45 |
| tlarsen | Lennie: Yes. And to collect enough data to do some load testing. | 12:45 |
| tlarsen | But, Leslie wants to enter Documents and wants them to *not* go away. | 12:46 |
| Lennie | can we have dev status on the console for that app untill we start running gsoc? | 12:46 |
| Lennie | so we can see the logs? | 12:46 |
| tlarsen | Lennie: Nope. | 12:46 |
| tlarsen | Lennie: Pawel has access. | 12:46 |
| Lennie | k | 12:46 |
| Lennie | that's fine | 12:46 |
| tlarsen | Lennie: Sorry, but we have to firewall this a bit. | 12:46 |
| Lennie | I know | 12:46 |
| Lennie | that's why I said untill gsoc starts :P | 12:46 |
| tlarsen | Lennie: As far as Google *engineering* is concerned, it *has* started. :) | 12:48 |
| tlarsen | Lennie: we don't launch something the day before, you know. | 12:48 |
| solydzajs | i'm back | 12:48 |
| solydzajs | reading backlog | 12:48 |
| tlarsen | Lennie: In fact, this is going to be one of the shortest ramp up times that GSoC has seen. | 12:48 |
| tlarsen | Lennie: I am usually doing final testing and next-year updates to the old GSoC web app in December. | 12:49 |
| Lennie | it's gonna be a bumpy road tlarsen :) | 12:49 |
| tlarsen | Lennie: I *never* wait this long. | 12:49 |
| solydzajs | tlarsen: the only thing that might change is the Documents stuff, cause Sverre is working on scope dependent document creator | 12:49 |
| tlarsen | solydzajs: As long as it does not invalidate the Document Entities already in the Datastore, I'm not concerned. | 12:50 |
| solydzajs | tlarsen: well as you know we didn't have much of the functionality in December, so well it's not our fault that we couldn't do final testing so quickly. | 12:50 |
| tlarsen | solydzajs: I realize that. If the decision were mine, we would be running GSoC 2009 on the old app one more time, but it is not. | 12:51 |
| tlarsen | solydzajs: And that is all I have to say about that. | 12:51 |
| solydzajs | tlarsen: yep it's not mine decision either. | 12:51 |
| tlarsen | solydzajs: The "Document export" part of this issue is working: http://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=154 | 12:51 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/2mU_> (at code.google.com) | 12:51 |
| solydzajs | tlarsen: I would probably too, even tho we do our best with Melange. | 12:51 |
| tlarsen | solydzajs: Perhaps someone should try to implement the "Document import" side this week. | 12:51 |
| tlarsen | solydzajs: I can see two ways to do it: | 12:52 |
| tlarsen | 1) have a separate form that does *not* have the TinyMCE control in the textarea (so that the Document HTML can be pasted in) | 12:52 |
| solydzajs | tlarsen: is the document importer a high priority ? | 12:53 |
| tlarsen | 2) have an Upload button that lets the file saved by the Export button upload the text file | 12:53 |
| solydzajs | tlarsen: making orgs/org apps stuff is more important | 12:53 |
| tlarsen | solydzajs: If we want to protect Leslie's FAQs, and let her author them early, save them off, and then Upload them right before FOSDEM, it is. | 12:53 |
| solydzajs | tlarsen: ok, will you create an issue for it ? | 12:54 |
| tlarsen | http://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=154 | 12:54 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/2mU_> (at code.google.com) | 12:54 |
| tlarsen | solydzajs: I can change it to Feature and increase the priority, if you'd like. | 12:54 |
| Lennie | I'd rather just see the changes to the document editor happen | 12:56 |
| Lennie | then it's possible to make stuff public | 12:56 |
| Lennie | and not public | 12:56 |
| tlarsen | OK, either one. | 12:56 |
| tlarsen | Lennie: but the backup capability is still needed. | 12:56 |
| Lennie | backup the DB via GAEBAR ? | 12:57 |
| tlarsen | Lennie: If I have time, I will implement it, since I think it is not hard. | 12:57 |
| tlarsen | Lennie: That is not a solution for Users. | 12:57 |
| tlarsen | Lennie: I am talking about Users being able to capture their content on their own. | 12:57 |
| Lennie | you can copy paste your own document :P | 12:57 |
| Lennie | but yeah you'll loose layout | 12:58 |
| tlarsen | Lennie: No, because you don't get to see the HTML. | 12:58 |
| tlarsen | Lennie: The Export feature *already works*. | 12:58 |
| tlarsen | Sigh. | 12:58 |
| tlarsen | Click on the button and the browser will offer to save the file as text. | 12:58 |
| solydzajs | tlarsen: ok you can increase the priority | 12:59 |
| Lennie | imho there is more important work laying around ^_ ^ | 13:00 |
| Lennie | like form cleaning | 13:00 |
| Lennie | so that you can't overwrite existing entities | 13:00 |
| tlarsen | Lennie: Leslie's use requirement are very high priority. | 13:00 |
| tlarsen | Lennie: The first thing she needs to do with the live site is publish some Documents. | 13:01 |
| tlarsen | Lennie: Leslie is the only official "customer" at this point. | 13:01 |
| Lennie | you are talking about exporting them | 13:01 |
| Lennie | not publishing them on the site | 13:01 |
| tlarsen | Lennie: I am talking about Leslie getting: | 13:01 |
| Lennie | that's totally different stuff right there | 13:01 |
| tlarsen | Lennie: 1) the ability to backup *lengthy* Documents she has formatted the way she wants | 13:01 |
| tlarsen | Lennie: 2) the ability to mark Documents as "not public" so that she can author them without the world seeing them | 13:02 |
| tlarsen | Lennie: Yes, it is *two* different features, but she needs them *both*. | 13:02 |
| tlarsen | Lennie: I don't think she is worried about if we are cleaning all of the forms. :) | 13:02 |
| tlarsen | Lennie: Anyway, I am not asking you to go do these things. I am just conveying needs that were told to me to the committers. | 13:03 |
| Lennie | so she doesn't mind if someone is overwriting other people's stuff? | 13:03 |
| tlarsen | Lennie: Anyone is welcome to implement those things, and I will do it if no one else gets around to it. | 13:03 |
| tlarsen | Lennie: I am just communicating the *needs* from our actual User. | 13:03 |
| tlarsen | Lennie: No one is suggesting that there isn't more to do than we can do. | 13:04 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: ping | 13:04 |
| tlarsen | Lennie: I am just saying that comments from Leslie need to be a strong input signal to the priority process. (as long as she isn't so unreasonable as to derail the existing plan, that is) | 13:05 |
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| Lennie | k | 13:13 |
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| Lennie | tlarsen|lunch, if you want no schema changes on monday please try to get an answer from legal about ToS ^_ ^ | 13:26 |
| *** tlarsen|lunch is now known as tlarsen | 13:27 | |
| tlarsen | Lennie: I believe Leslie already addressed this. | 13:27 |
| Lennie | aha really | 13:28 |
| Lennie | did I miss an update :D? | 13:28 |
| tlarsen | http://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=174 | 13:28 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/2m+l> (at code.google.com) | 13:28 |
| tlarsen | http://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=175 | 13:28 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/2mVm> (at code.google.com) | 13:28 |
| Lennie | okay sticky it is already that's good | 13:28 |
| tlarsen | Lennie: We just want to follow SRabbelier's recommendation and change it from a BooleanProperty to a date/time one. | 13:29 |
| Lennie | if we really want that create an issue for that please | 13:29 |
| tlarsen | It is in issue 174. | 13:29 |
| tlarsen | You want a separate issue? | 13:29 |
| Lennie | yosh | 13:29 |
| Lennie | plix | 13:29 |
| tlarsen | OK, will do. | 13:29 |
| Lennie | I'll tag that issue in my inbox and try to get to it soon | 13:30 |
| Lennie | make me owner ^_^ | 13:30 |
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| Lennie|Gone | food | 13:31 |
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| bhy | new question: since program is not a group, should student belong to any group? | 13:39 |
| bhy | I mean params['group_logic'] params['group_view'] etc | 13:40 |
| tlarsen|lunch | bhy: I believe there is supposed to be a School sub-class of Group. | 13:41 |
| bhy | but there's no view for School yet | 13:42 |
| bhy | is that make sense to let School have a view? | 13:43 |
| tlarsen|lunch | bhy: I think School was going to be implemented some other way, with the "Program Owner" (Host) uploading some known set of schools or something. | 13:45 |
| tlarsen|lunch | Not sure, really. | 13:45 |
| tlarsen|lunch | bhy: The focus lately has been on the first milestones in GSoC, namely org sign-ups. | 13:46 |
| tlarsen|lunch | bhy: So, the student stuff hasn't been given a lot of attention, since it isn't needed for a while. :) | 13:46 |
| lh | tlarsen|lunch: i like the not public document idea | 13:49 |
| tlarsen|lunch | lh: Could you please open a feature request in the issue tracker? Pretty please? :) | 13:50 |
| tlarsen|lunch | Describe how you want the feature to work (checkbox to hide, only the author can view, etc.) | 13:51 |
| tlarsen|lunch | solydzajs: Are you still around? | 13:54 |
| solydzajs | tlarsen|lunch: yes | 13:54 |
| tlarsen|lunch | solydzajs: Do you still want the items in the wiki converted to Feature Requests? | 13:55 |
| solydzajs | tlarsen|lunch: I wanted to do it during weekend | 13:55 |
| solydzajs | tlarsen|lunch: you want to do it ? | 13:56 |
| tlarsen|lunch | solydzajs: OK, if you are planning to do it, then nevermind. | 13:56 |
| lh | tlarsen|lunch: will do | 14:12 |
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| Lennie | I need an HTML expert | 16:09 |
| Lennie | who wants a challenge ;P? | 16:09 |
| Landon | finding an html expert? :P | 16:16 |
| * Landon goes back to his assembly lab | 16:16 | |
| solydzajs | tlarsen|lunch: ping, I want to discuss ToS one more time | 16:23 |
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| Lennie | WAZZZZZZZZUP MatthewWilkes ^_ ^ | 17:14 |
| MatthewWilkes | Lennie! Just finished group project - it's awful. Turns out the people in the group doing the script writing are in the remedial grammar seminar. Urgh, but it's done now, yourself? | 17:17 |
| Lennie | I'm fine :P | 17:17 |
| Lennie | my life is dull apparently if I can do it in three words :p | 17:18 |
| Lennie | I also turned in a project today | 17:18 |
| Lennie | SRabbelier! | 17:18 |
| Lennie | The teacher sucks yes :P? | 17:18 |
| MatthewWilkes | <bawdyremark/> | 17:18 |
| Lennie | ^_^ | 17:20 |
| MatthewWilkes | hehe, I set my fb status to be about putting off my tax return (due saturday or a £100 fine), my sister just called me: "You do a tax return? What's a tax return? Should I have done one?" | 17:22 |
| Lennie | lol :P | 17:25 |
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