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| cr1901 | >(9:04:36 AM) sorear: trouble finding hardware? | 12:35 |
|---|---|---|
| cr1901 | No, in ABC's case, C (C++?) doesn't make it exceptionally easy to do endian-independent "store/load word from smaller parts", and ABC, well, bakes in little-endian assumptions | 12:35 |
| cr1901 | And when a yosys bug was filed that triggered the bug on big endian systems, it became clear that it's too much work to either add #ifdef BIG_ENDIAN or alter all the store/loads into endian-independent ones | 12:36 |
| sorear | <lofty> mwk: Trying to find big-endian hardware for these things is hard, but at least I discovered it >.> | 12:49 |
| sorear | i was asking what that meant | 12:49 |
| mwk | ... I swear if we keep finding abc endianness / pointer-size issues, I'm putting it into a wasm32 jail where it belongs and shipping yosys with wasi interpreter | 13:04 |
| whitequark | mwk: don't need an interpreter | 13:08 |
| whitequark | use wasm2c | 13:08 |
| whitequark | i'm excited for yowasp to be shipping two nested layers of wasm runtimes | 13:09 |
| cr1901 | sorear: Hmmm... what big endian CPUs still have hardware made for them, new in, say, 2019 (before parts shortage)? | 13:11 |
| mwk | System Z, POWER | 13:11 |
| sorear | cr1901: I'm told you can run big endian VMs on all armv8 hardware, haven't gotten around to trying it yet | 13:12 |
| mwk | plus, well, technically ARM is bi, but noone really uses it that way | 13:12 |
| cr1901 | RISCV allows big-endian as nonstandard, but yea no one is gonna use that either | 13:12 |
| cr1901 | sorear: I don't understand what you mean. You can run big-endian emulators on x86 too. It's just not fast :P. | 13:14 |
| sorear | cr1901: aarch64 kvm supports guest endian != host endian | 13:14 |
| cr1901 | Ahhh, that sounds stressful to implement, but good for ARM | 13:15 |
| sorear | that's why it's kvm and not general user applications - much smaller ABI surface to translate | 13:17 |
| cr1901 | I can just imagine me trying to implement, say, a 68k JIT, and screwing up which part of a word I load/store when generate host code for insns that access memory | 13:18 |
| cr1901 | (Sorry, 68k is still my go-to example for big endian :P) | 13:18 |
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| cr1901 | mwk: I forgot POWER was big-endian. I have plans to try out MicroWatt running Linux too | 13:24 |
| mwk | POWER is migrating to little-endian though | 13:24 |
| mwk | like, big-endian is still a thing, but it's becoming legacy | 13:25 |
| cr1901 | Shame... they got bought out by the little-endian lobbyists :P | 13:27 |
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| Xark | Thank goodness PowerPC on PS3 also had a "little endian" load/store opcodes or it would have been a bummer running translated MIPS code. Perhaps last big-endian system in wide use... | 16:30 |
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| mwk | whitequark: so you mentioned you had some thoughts about poison, X, and UB in yosys; do you have that written down somewhere? I feel this is a discussion we need to have soon-ish about our IR | 17:19 |
| mwk | (see also: https://github.com/YosysHQ/yosys/issues/2924 and probably more issues like that in the codebase) | 17:20 |
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