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| Melkhior | mithro: could simpledrm enable some level of FB acceleration in the console the way fbcon used to do? | 06:37 |
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| mithro | Melkhior: unclear | 18:09 |
| Melkhior | mithro: thanks; in my head DRM was targeted at higher-end GPUs and might require a larger baseline of functionalities for acceleration... | 18:48 |
| Melkhior | Though at this point I look more at what NetBSD is offering rather than Linux | 18:49 |
| mithro | Melkhior: I think DRM will eventually replace all the older fb stuff in the future... | 18:49 |
| Melkhior | mithro: which might leave lower-end/older hardware, or soft-soc, with no console acceleration :-( | 18:50 |
| Melkhior | Side-note: thanks to Litex I have been able to use a USB mouse and mount a USB stick on my SPARCstation (with some help of Dolu1990 to figure out some bugs) | 18:51 |
| Melkhior | And now I also have the SDRAM working (somewhat) as a RAM disk on which I can swap :-) | 18:51 |
| mithro | From what I can see DRM, modesetting and similar interfaces are much better at handling weird stuff than fb stuff ever was. | 18:52 |
| mithro | Like it understands things like clocks, connectors, power supplies, cables, etc... | 18:52 |
| Melkhior | mithro: to be honest I can't remember much about the FB stuff, haven't touch my FB driver in like 15 years... | 18:53 |
| mithro | Fb was hacks on hacks from what I've seen | 18:54 |
| Melkhior | I was about to try and figure out how to do some memory copy in the Litex FB for an accelerated console when I discovered Linux had pulled the plug, so didn't move forward | 18:54 |
| Melkhior | :back | 18:54 |
| Melkhior | well it was working, and that's a whole lot better than nothing :-) | 18:54 |
| Melkhior | Having an accelerated FB driver was very useful back in the day, compared to the basic default driver | 18:55 |
| Melkhior | But I guess we have to accept that things change... | 18:56 |
| Melkhior | But having FB disappears makes me feel old - the only bit of code I have in the Linux kernel is there... | 18:57 |
| Melkhior | We'll have to see how DRM and simpledrm evolve, and perhaps someday there will be a OSH simpledrm-accelerated graphic device! | 18:57 |
| Melkhior | fingers crossed :-) | 18:57 |
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| gatecat | ime, DRM has more complexity but it tends to rely a lot less on driver specific hacks | 20:00 |
| gatecat | I remember an old FB driver where a lot of the configuration could only be done via writing to files in sysfs | 20:00 |
| cr1901 | NetBSD-on-LiteX would be fun, but RISCV support just isn't there :/ | 20:04 |
| gatecat | :( | 20:09 |
| cr1901 | (although I think the POWER support might) | 20:10 |
| Melkhior | gatecat: in my case it's NetBSD-on-SPARC I'm using Litex with :-) But yes it would be nice to have NetBSD on RISC-V; in particular for RV32 | 20:10 |
| cr1901 | World decided that Linux is the One True Unix, Unix Is Dead, etc | 20:11 |
| Melkhior | https://github.com/rdolbeau/SBusFPGA | 20:11 |
| cr1901 | That it's okay for [REDACTED] as long as it allows users to get work done. | 20:12 |
| Melkhior | cr1901: oups, you were the one talking about NetBSD not gatecat, sorry both | 20:13 |
| cr1901 | litex supports SPARC? | 20:14 |
| Melkhior | cr1901: no, I'm using Litex cpu-less to add devices to a SPARCstation, see the link I posted if you want detail (it's only mildly relevant here) | 20:14 |
| Melkhior | It could support SPARC by using e.g. LEON (Columbia's ESP project does it), but there's probably not a lot of future in that | 20:15 |
| cr1901 | oooh right... I remember seeing that | 20:15 |
| Melkhior | Even Cobham-Gaisler has moved from SPARC (LEON) to RISC-V (NOEL-V) | 20:16 |
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| cr1901 | https://www.gaisler.com/index.php/products/processors/leon5 seems to still be in development | 20:16 |
| tpb | Title: LEON5 (at www.gaisler.com) | 20:17 |
| cr1901 | Anyways, lm32 doesn't have a future either probably but no plans to remove support for that I don't think | 20:17 |
| cr1901 | (I guess partially b/c of nostalgia, and well, it's not a bad CPU core for being written in Verilog) | 20:17 |
| cr1901 | (It was the "original" LiteX core) | 20:17 |
| Melkhior | Microwatt looks nice, but I'm not sure it can save PowerPC... and neither will a 2.5k$ Talos Blackbird or the even worse price/performance ratio of the $2k AmidgaOne X5000 | 20:17 |
| cr1901 | I'm not interested in an x86, ARM, and RISCV-only world, so I will fight against it :) | 20:18 |
| Melkhior | cr1901: good fight :-) and thanks for the LEON5 link, guess they still need SW compatibility to some level, good to know SPARC is not fully dead yet :-) | 20:19 |
| sorear | give it five years, "riscv" will cover a larger range of incompatible systems than exist today in the general market :p | 20:20 |
| cr1901 | I like the base ISA, and I _love_ the insn encoding of the base ISA. Everything else bites | 20:20 |
| Melkhior | I do plan to try Microwatt some day... I've always liked PowerPC's rlwinmi and similar instructions. RISC but not dogmatic, some real-world considerations seeped into the design | 20:21 |
| cr1901 | (And I'm not entirely convinced that "bolting on the compressed ISA to expand to the full ISA" is a good idea for timing. But that's a feeling, not any hard data.) | 20:21 |
| Melkhior | yes, RISC-V is too simple by default to be truly efficient. It's a great teaching tool, but not a great production design. | 20:21 |
| Melkhior | You need some of B, or some of the L/S instructions they added in PULP | 20:22 |
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| cr1901 | Ehhh, that doesn't bother me too much. The base set is nice, and extremely happy they didn't mandate mul/div in the base ISA (and the counters/CSRs in the E ISA) | 20:23 |
| Melkhior | C seems to cause a lot of problems... There's been some issue with it in Vexriscv (should be fine now), and i'ts not the only one | 20:23 |
| cr1901 | My own RISCV core will implement "enough of the privileged ISA such that interrupts in C/Rust work" and that's it | 20:23 |
| Melkhior | hehe, missing MUL cause SPARCv7 a *lot* of problem performance-wise! | 20:24 |
| cr1901 | All the components are connected together, just need to write the microcode | 20:24 |
| Melkhior | That's why it was mandatory from V8 onward... | 20:24 |
| Melkhior | Truth is, I don't buy the "one size fits all" idea. Some compromise do not work at all scale. | 20:25 |
| Melkhior | Another lesson from the so-called Scalable Processor ARChitecture :-) | 20:25 |
| Melkhior | which core is that? | 20:25 |
| cr1901 | Melkhior: Not public yet, but it's called "sentinel" | 20:26 |
| cr1901 | Meant to be a "management CPU" without the baggage of ME :) | 20:27 |
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| Melkhior | cr1901: embedded/securuty then | 20:28 |
| Melkhior | I'm at the other side of the scale - day job is HPC, if it doesn't reach teraflops it's not for me :-) | 20:29 |
| cr1901 | embedded more than security. Fit into very smol places, like femtorv32, but "my take on it because I'm too vain to admit femtorv32 prob fits my needs" | 20:29 |
| Melkhior | And so far, RV64GVC hasn't proven itself | 20:30 |
| Melkhior | well call it a learning tool, and then it's no longer vanity :-) | 20:30 |
| cr1901 | hmmm | 20:40 |
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