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| llnz | bbl, maybe | 03:59 |
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| llnz | morning all | 21:31 |
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| Ramblurr | 'lo | 21:33 |
| llnz | hi Ramblurr | 21:36 |
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| Ramblurr | where do implementations of rulesets live? | 21:42 |
| Ramblurr | Browsing the top level of gitweb nothing really stuck out | 21:42 |
| Ramblurr | :( are the demo servers not up? | 21:46 |
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| llnz | the rulesets are in the servers | 21:48 |
| llnz | so tpserver-cpp has minisec, mtsec, rfts, risk, tae rulesets | 21:48 |
| llnz | and tpserver-py has minisec, tradesec, dronesec rulesets (iirc) | 21:48 |
| Ramblurr | llnz: thanks | 21:53 |
| Ramblurr | http://www.thousandparsec.net/wiki/Ideas_for_Programmers was last updated in April, is it still current? | 21:54 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/1ZnB> (at www.thousandparsec.net) | 21:54 |
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| llnz | Ramblurr: umm.. pretty much | 22:06 |
| llnz | certainly discuss here or mailing list if you are interested in something | 22:07 |
| Ramblurr | suer thing | 22:15 |
| Ramblurr | sure* | 22:15 |
| Ramblurr | ran into a buildsystem bug when configuring tpserver-cpp | 22:15 |
| Ramblurr | configure.ac requires mzscheme to be in /lib, but on my system it is in lib64 | 22:15 |
| Ramblurr | working up a patch | 22:15 |
| llnz | cool | 22:16 |
| llnz | mzscheme it's very nice, i generally use guile | 22:17 |
| Ramblurr | what is it used for in the server? | 22:18 |
| Ramblurr | bleh, i hate autoconf/tools | 22:18 |
| llnz | grr... s/it's/isn't/ | 22:19 |
| llnz | mzscheme and guile are both scheme implementations | 22:20 |
| llnz | scheme is used by the protocol to specify properties of components in designs | 22:20 |
| Ramblurr | what is scheme used for inside the server? | 22:20 |
| Ramblurr | ah | 22:20 |
| Ramblurr | interesting | 22:20 |
| Ramblurr | heh | 22:23 |
| Ramblurr | installed guile, bypassed the bug | 22:23 |
| Ramblurr | llnz: so something I don't quite understand is how the rulesets interact with the client | 22:25 |
| llnz | the protocol tells the clients everything they need to know | 22:26 |
| Ramblurr | presumably each ruleset will require various modifications to the GUI, adding actions, list views, etc | 22:26 |
| llnz | so the ruleset tells the server what orders are available, etc and the server sends them by the protocol to the clients | 22:26 |
| llnz | afk | 22:29 |
| Ramblurr | neato connected to a local server | 22:53 |
| Ramblurr | using quickstart-minisec.conf | 22:53 |
| Ramblurr | seems all the other confs fail | 22:53 |
| verhoevenv | Hmm. Risk should work. Well, the others too obviously but we haven't tested them in a while. | 22:54 |
| Ramblurr | i'm using git versions of the client and tpserver-cpp | 22:55 |
| Ramblurr | er git versio of tpclient-pywx | 22:56 |
| Ramblurr | verhoevenv: where is development concetrated at the moment? | 22:59 |
| verhoevenv | Last thing we really focused on was getting most of the bugs out of minisec. | 23:00 |
| verhoevenv | (and the client and server in relation to minisec) | 23:00 |
| verhoevenv | Next for me is some polish to the AI, though not sure that's a really high-priority thing. | 23:02 |
| Ramblurr | i noticed the ruleset book is under obsolete in the git repo | 23:03 |
| verhoevenv | Eh, might be. Documentation is kind of a problem sometimes. | 23:04 |
| Ramblurr | Aha. Rulesets are actually plugins that contain code for running the game | 23:08 |
| Ramblurr | by "ruleset" I was thinking they were a distillation of a game into some sort of specification | 23:09 |
| verhoevenv | Ramblurr: are you interested in making a new ruleset? | 23:10 |
| Ramblurr | verhoevenv: so what is blocking the development of complex mature rulesets? | 23:11 |
| Ramblurr | verhoevenv: indeed, though I am also interested in TP as a framework in general | 23:11 |
| Ramblurr | Is the protocol still under development? | 23:11 |
| verhoevenv | There are a few fairly complex rulesets out already, but there are a few problems in development. | 23:12 |
| verhoevenv | First, yeah, the protocol is not finished yet. | 23:12 |
| verhoevenv | No support for diplomacy or research to name two things. | 23:12 |
| verhoevenv | Probably other things missing. | 23:12 |
| Ramblurr | hm | 23:12 |
| Ramblurr | i haven't figured out how to create a playable user on my server hah | 23:12 |
| verhoevenv | Second, lack of playtesting or players in general. | 23:13 |
| Ramblurr | but are the orders typed in by hand? | 23:13 |
| verhoevenv | No, the GUI is mouse-driven. | 23:13 |
| verhoevenv | Some shortcuts obviously. | 23:13 |
| verhoevenv | Then again, it depends on clients. | 23:13 |
| verhoevenv | We also have a 3D client in pyogre. | 23:13 |
| verhoevenv | And a text client that probably doesn't work anymore. | 23:13 |
| verhoevenv | You should be able to simply create a new user when you log in as a nonexisting user. | 23:14 |
| Ramblurr | are diplomacy and research aspects that need to be supported by the protocol? | 23:14 |
| verhoevenv | I think password is mandatory too. | 23:14 |
| Ramblurr | or is the protocol more generic ? | 23:14 |
| verhoevenv | I'm not entirely certain on that. The latest versions are getting pretty generic. | 23:15 |
| verhoevenv | It might be possible to hack some kind of research in there with what exists. | 23:15 |
| Ramblurr | ideally it seems that should be a ruleset issue | 23:15 |
| verhoevenv | Diplomacy seems more fundamental though, since it handles relations between players. | 23:16 |
| verhoevenv | You can't do that with objects on the board etc. | 23:16 |
| Ramblurr | hm | 23:16 |
| verhoevenv | The 'problem' mainly is that the client has nothing but the protocol to base itself on. | 23:16 |
| Ramblurr | must Objects be on the board? | 23:16 |
| Ramblurr | couldn't an object be something abstract as "As diplomatic status towards B" | 23:17 |
| Ramblurr | ? | 23:17 |
| verhoevenv | Well, objects are things that are on the board by definition. | 23:17 |
| verhoevenv | They have a location, a velocity, that kind of things. | 23:17 |
| verhoevenv | (I think they're called objects anyway) | 23:17 |
| verhoevenv | I don't really know everything about the fine points of the protocol though, I just use the library they give me. :P | 23:18 |
| Ramblurr | hah | 23:19 |
| Ramblurr | are you working on a rulset? | 23:19 |
| Ramblurr | oh, you mentioned AI clients | 23:19 |
| verhoevenv | Yeah, it's basically all I know about. | 23:20 |
| verhoevenv | Some general things about the other parts maybe. | 23:20 |
| llnz | back | 23:21 |
| verhoevenv | Ramblurr: llnz knows most about the C++ server, so he might be able to help you more with the protocol and ruleset questions. | 23:22 |
| Ramblurr | llnz: wb | 23:24 |
| llnz | thanks | 23:25 |
| Ramblurr | llnz: how is TP04 development coming along? | 23:30 |
| llnz | research and diplomacy will be added sometime | 23:31 |
| llnz | otherwise it's stable and not a moving target for development | 23:31 |
| Ramblurr | just saw that the "LCA08 Dev Meeting" article on the wiki says diplomacy is aimed for TP05 | 23:31 |
| Ramblurr | has tp04 been implemented yet? | 23:32 |
| llnz | yes, TP04 is the protocol we are actively using | 23:32 |
| Ramblurr | ah, but research didn't make it in? | 23:33 |
| llnz | research and diplomancy will be added to it | 23:33 |
| llnz | it won't affect anything already there | 23:33 |
| Ramblurr | i see | 23:34 |
| Ramblurr | neat | 23:34 |
| Ramblurr | I come from a KDE/Qt/C++ background, so I could easily work on the Parsek client | 23:41 |
| Ramblurr | especially considering it hasn't received any love in a couple years | 23:41 |
| Ramblurr | but I would rather contribute to something more crucial to TP | 23:41 |
| llnz | the latest parsek changes haven't been in tp's git repo | 23:53 |
| llnz | first it was in tp, then KDE's svn, now it's on github | 23:53 |
| llnz | a google summer of code student was working on it this year | 23:53 |
| llnz | very bit helps | 23:54 |
| Ramblurr | oh | 23:55 |
| Ramblurr | that explains it, i was only looking at kde svn and tp's git | 23:55 |
| Ramblurr | I saw his 2010 proposal | 23:56 |
| Ramblurr | was it successful? | 23:56 |
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