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| mithro | greywhind: going to move to ubuntu full time? | 00:06 |
|---|---|---|
| greywhind | mithro: pretty much - some Windows for games and programming, too | 00:06 |
| mithro | cool | 00:07 |
| mithro | greywhind: haven't had any time to play with pywx recently either? | 00:08 |
| greywhind | mithro: i don't know what to do with it | 00:08 |
| mithro | greywhind: did you get as far as setting up a tp04 version? | 00:08 |
| greywhind | mithro: i updated it fully at one point, but that's about it | 00:08 |
| mithro | well it would be good if you could update and then just start fixing problems :P | 00:09 |
| greywhind | ok... not sure i'll be able to fix things, but i'll see what i can do | 00:09 |
| mithro | greywhind: fix things or complain about broken things :P | 00:10 |
| mithro | there are a lot of "open problems" | 00:11 |
| greywhind | ok - is there a list of problems? the sourceforge bug tracker? | 00:11 |
| mithro | no | 00:11 |
| mithro | the list of problems fall into | 00:11 |
| mithro | 1. problems caused by the new dynamic objects | 00:12 |
| mithro | 2. problems caused by order queues no longer being on every object | 00:12 |
| greywhind | i'm afraid i'll have to ask you to explain in more detail later, but i have to get some dessert before it melts | 00:14 |
| mithro | okay | 00:16 |
| mithro | I think we should first look at fixing the starmap | 00:17 |
| mithro | which you have some experience with | 00:17 |
| DevPlayer | what's this tp04? | 00:19 |
| mithro | it is the next version of the Thousand Parsec protocol | 00:20 |
| mithro | it adds support for dynamically described objects | 00:20 |
| DevPlayer | is ddo a user controlable or a dev controllable? | 00:21 |
| mithro | ddo? | 00:22 |
| DevPlayer | short for dynamically described objects | 00:22 |
| mithro | it | 00:23 |
| mithro | it's for the ruleset creators | 00:23 |
| DevPlayer | sounds interesting. on forums? | 00:24 |
| mithro | allows them to create new objects without needing for everything to be updated | 00:24 |
| DevPlayer | is the tp protocol a completely seperate namespace then the wxpython namespace or just added libraries? | 00:37 |
| DevPlayer | to the wxpython lib. | 00:37 |
| mithro | that sentence was totally nonsense | 00:37 |
| DevPlayer | lol. for example using panda3d and wxpythone i have heard some say are different "namespaces". | 00:38 |
| mithro | panda3d and wxPython are both different libraries | 00:41 |
| mithro | which are totally unrelated (apart from the fact they both have C++ and Python interfaces) | 00:42 |
| DevPlayer | i was thinking of showing a 3d model of a spacecraft in one window pane of a wxpython client. the panda3d stuff seemed better for the 3d model stuff and the wxpython the general "windowed" stuff. | 00:50 |
| mithro | DevPlayer: that is a massive task to undertake | 00:50 |
| mithro | and requires lots of horrible interaction between wxWindows and what ever opengl engine you are using | 00:51 |
| DevPlayer | do you mean the panda3d stuff is pretty bad for doing 3d animation? | 00:52 |
| mithro | no | 00:52 |
| mithro | panda3d is good at doing 3d animation | 00:52 |
| mithro | wxWindows is good at providing a native looking interface | 00:52 |
| DevPlayer | but...? | 00:53 |
| mithro | connecting wxWindows and panda3d together is *really* hard | 00:53 |
| mithro | as they where never designed to work together | 00:53 |
| DevPlayer | i don't doubt you. the panda3d channel mentioned that someone has done it. just didn't know if there is a better way in the wxpython lib (framework - context - whatever it's called). | 00:54 |
| mithro | I'm sure that someone has embedded panda3d in a wxWindows application | 00:55 |
| mithro | but I doubt it was portable or worked well | 00:55 |
| mithro | (or easy to do) | 00:55 |
| DevPlayer | have you seen anyone do 3d stuff in their tp clients? | 00:56 |
| mithro | I could probably do it (but it wouldn't be a "quick job"), but I have years of experience with wxPython | 00:56 |
| mithro | DevPlayer: http://devhobby.blogspot.com/ | 00:56 |
| tpb | Title: Dev Hobby (at devhobby.blogspot.com) | 00:56 |
| DevPlayer | you're working mostly in c++ now though right? | 00:56 |
| mithro | nope | 01:00 |
| shenki | aww, why not mithro? i know how much you love c++ | 01:03 |
| mithro | I barely have time to do coding for Thousand Parsec, I don't want to spend my time managing my own memory | 01:03 |
| shenki | *insert joke about mithro being forgetful* | 01:04 |
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| llnz_work | later all | 01:12 |
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| mithro | shenki: any luck with the python-ogre on amd? | 01:50 |
| mithro | ezod: ping? | 02:00 |
| DevPlayer | what is a Scheme interpreter | 02:13 |
| DevPlayer | i've been able to play in the minisec demo. but i'm still confused as to how to get into the MTsec. | 02:19 |
| mithro | DevPlayer: if you are just a player you don't care about a scheme interpreter | 02:26 |
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| shenki | mithro: nope, haven't had a play - the machine is set to boot from the vista hdd atm, and the wireless keyboard i have won't let me enter the bios :/ | 03:40 |
| JLP | good morning everyone | 04:03 |
| pluskid | good afternoon here :D | 04:06 |
| pluskid | mithro: ping | 04:06 |
| mithro | pluskid: pong | 04:09 |
| pluskid | mithro: I don't think we need to ship guile binary with schemepy | 04:10 |
| mithro | why? | 04:10 |
| mithro | how else is windows people going to get non-python fallback | 04:11 |
| pluskid | schemepy will use native scheme implementation *when available* | 04:12 |
| pluskid | if we'll ship with a native scheme implementation, we'll focus on one particular implementation | 04:13 |
| pluskid | instead of support as many as possible | 04:13 |
| pluskid | mithro: I think that's the basic point of schemepy | 04:14 |
| mithro | on windows it makes sense to have an easy way to make schemepy go faster on windows | 04:15 |
| pluskid | then the fallback is useless. | 04:16 |
| pluskid | If we focus on one particular backend, we can do better | 04:16 |
| pluskid | but our goal is to support various backends | 04:16 |
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| pluskid | efforts and drawbacks are used to make it looks (almost) identical on every backend. | 04:18 |
| mithro | yes, our effort is to support various backends - but windows doesn't give any way to find installed backends | 04:22 |
| * JLP just notices he will get a free Nokia N810 at Akademy 2008. Woot! | 04:28 | |
| pluskid | so, we'll ship on windows schemepy with a libguile.dll | 04:33 |
| mithro | JLP: you need less toys so you do more TP work :) | 04:33 |
| mithro | pluskid: either that or have an extra "make schemepy faster" package | 04:33 |
| JLP | mithro: yeah i know, and less KDE, right :) | 04:33 |
| pluskid | the "make schemepy faster" is just a standard guile/mzscheme installation :) | 04:33 |
| mithro | pluskid: there is no "standard guile/mzscheme installation" under windows | 04:34 |
| mithro | that is the point I'm trying to get across | 04:34 |
| JLP | well now kde 4.1 is out and i'm switching back to TP for a while, i'll also try to spend as much free time at akademy for TP | 04:34 |
| JLP | first thing to do today (after getting rid of sister asking me about which hair style to get) is learning proper gi without cogito | 04:35 |
| pluskid | mithro: so, if we finally decide to ship libguile.dll with schemepy, then there's no need to include code for other backends on this distribution. | 04:36 |
| pluskid | isn't it? | 04:36 |
| pluskid | or libmzscheme.dll | 04:36 |
| mithro | pluskid: not true - people might want to select a different backend | 04:38 |
| pluskid | but since there's no way to install a native scheme that schemepy can understand | 04:39 |
| mithro | or specify where to actually find their installed windows mzscheme (or guile) | 04:39 |
| mithro | pluskid: you can install a native scheme - there is no automatic way to detect where it is installed | 04:40 |
| pluskid | ok | 04:40 |
| mithro | that is the problem | 04:40 |
| pluskid | so the problem becomes: we'll provide a way to let user config the path | 04:40 |
| mithro | pluskid: yes I guess so | 04:41 |
| pluskid | I think this is better way than to include a libguile.dll | 04:41 |
| mithro | but I still think in a "windows binary package" we should ship a better scheme (depending on the performance differences) | 04:41 |
| pluskid | OK, a special binary for windows | 04:42 |
| pluskid | with all needed included | 04:42 |
| mithro | Linux/Unix have nice ways of finding installed stuff | 04:42 |
| mithro | (and nice ways to installing it) | 04:42 |
| pluskid | yes, windows sucks here | 04:42 |
| pluskid | I think mzscheme is better | 04:42 |
| pluskid | it has official windows binary IIRC | 04:43 |
| pluskid | heading for supper now | 04:43 |
| mithro | bblr | 04:44 |
| mithro | dinner | 04:44 |
| JLP | pluskid, mithro: bon apetit | 04:44 |
| mithro | back | 05:09 |
| pluskid | back too | 05:19 |
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| mithro | heading off home | 07:31 |
| mithro | see ya! | 07:31 |
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| CIA-32 | pluskid schemepy * r2ac628569a9f / (11 files in 4 dirs): Added call/cc support for skime. | 07:41 |
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| bddebian | Heya | 09:27 |
| JLP | hey ho | 09:27 |
| bddebian | Hi JLP | 09:27 |
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| llnz_work | morning all | 17:18 |
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| CIA-32 | jphr tpserver-cpp-risk * r0d957b12bc55 /modules/games/risk/ (5 files): Extracted fillFromStyle code to function. Refactored many "style" variables to "fill" variables. Also made changes to scripts. | 17:28 |
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| *** Iwanowitch_ is now known as Iwanowitch | 19:07 | |
| Iwanowitch | Heya nash. | 19:07 |
| nash | Heyo Iwanowitch | 19:08 |
| Iwanowitch | nash: I seem to have lost my drive a bit, I don't really know what to do anymore on the bot. Except that I don't really have a bot yet. | 19:10 |
| nash | What you need to do is get two bots to fight | 19:12 |
| nash | And play | 19:12 |
| Iwanowitch | Mmm. Yeah. | 19:15 |
| nash | So what happens now... | 19:17 |
| nash | You need to plug in teh star mapper stuff to get the pretty wall of colour as they go | 19:17 |
| Iwanowitch | Oh. Err. Problem there, no multiple players in star mapper. Unless there's a trick I don't know about. | 19:18 |
| nash | Hmm... need to check with mithro on that one... but he has multiple videos of multple players | 19:20 |
| Iwanowitch | Playing any of the new rulesets? I think he uses guest accounts with minisec/mtsec (not sure which ones support guest players). | 19:22 |
| Iwanowitch | Though I don't think guest players are enabled for the newer rulesets? | 19:23 |
| nash | okay... | 19:24 |
| nash | Hmm... | 19:24 |
| Iwanowitch | I posted to the mailing list a while back about this though. The suggestion there was to create an admin player. Most of ezod's work could be used for that. | 19:26 |
| Iwanowitch | Though I haven't investigated beyond that. | 19:26 |
| nash | maybe it;'s time to see if ezonds work is good enough? | 19:31 |
| Iwanowitch | Well, he's currently doing something different anyway (singleplayer stuff), so I suppose the admin part should be mostly finished. | 19:33 |
| nash | Chase him up on it then... | 19:33 |
| Iwanowitch | I'm not entirely sure what his last stance on the starmapper issue was though, I don't think it's fully supported. It's somewhere on the mailing list I think. | 19:33 |
| nash | basically the nice wall of colour things are quite cool to play with | 19:33 |
| Iwanowitch | Heh. :) | 19:34 |
| Iwanowitch | It would be pretty nice to have indeed. | 19:34 |
| Iwanowitch | http://www.thousandparsec.net/tp/pipermail.php/tp-devel/2008-July/001224.html is the mailing list thread. | 19:36 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/27Ma> (at www.thousandparsec.net) | 19:36 |
| CIA-32 | verhoevenv daneel-ai * r7fb0a15f8d98 / (basic.py daneel-ai): Moved cacheentered constrainted to the main bot to make sure it is always entered | 19:55 |
| CIA-32 | verhoevenv daneel-ai * r116c00e6f5d9 /mod-risk.py: Added reinforcements constraint for Risk | 19:55 |
| CIA-32 | verhoevenv daneel-ai * r864f481b1a0f / (mod-risk.py rules-risk): Added armies constraint | 19:55 |
| mithro | hey guys | 20:03 |
| llnz_work | hi mithro, all | 20:04 |
| mithro | Iwanowitch: ping? | 20:04 |
| Iwanowitch | mithro: pong | 20:09 |
| mithro | so I think nash is right | 20:10 |
| mithro | you should be testing your AI against itself | 20:10 |
| nash | mithro: It was an accident | 20:10 |
| Iwanowitch | Yeah, that makes sense. But I don't really have a lot of an AI yet. | 20:11 |
| Iwanowitch | Though yeah, I suppose I should change that. | 20:13 |
| mithro | Iwanowitch: yes | 20:13 |
| mithro | you can also try playing agaist the AI yourself | 20:13 |
| Iwanowitch | It's just that... It seems hard. It's very freeform to "create an AI". | 20:15 |
| Iwanowitch | I don't really know where to start. | 20:15 |
| Iwanowitch | I'm currently focussing on Risk btw. | 20:15 |
| Iwanowitch | mithro: how do you feel about the starmapper/admin thing? | 20:16 |
| mithro | Iwanowitch: Risk has no fog of war | 20:17 |
| mithro | it's like Minisec in total information | 20:17 |
| mithro | so it should be fine | 20:17 |
| Iwanowitch | Oh. True. | 20:17 |
| Iwanowitch | Good point. :) | 20:18 |
| mithro | if you have an easy setup, you should get other people to play against your AI | 20:30 |
| mithro | I'm expecting to have something which gives me a run for my money by the end of GSoC | 20:36 |
| Iwanowitch | Yeah, I understand. | 20:39 |
| Iwanowitch | I'll do my best. | 20:39 |
| mithro | I'm a risk beginner :) | 20:40 |
| mithro | ~seen jphr | 20:40 |
| tpb | mithro: jphr was last seen in #tp 4 days, 4 hours, 29 minutes, and 30 seconds ago: <jphr> ok, cya later | 20:40 |
| Iwanowitch | I'm mostly a Risk nothing. I think I played two games in my entire life. :P | 20:41 |
| Iwanowitch | Though I suppose it can't be hard to come up with something that proves a challenge to me. Perhaps others can tell me how to improve it then. | 20:41 |
| mithro | Iwanowitch: I say start playing a few games and see what happens | 21:04 |
| mithro | you will quickly see where things are going wrong | 21:05 |
| mithro | then you can start testing the AI against itself | 21:05 |
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