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| mithro | back now | 00:36 |
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| jmtan | mithro: you were mentioning about tp04 and media tags? | 00:39 |
| mithro | check out the wiki on our ideas | 00:39 |
| mithro | http://www.thousandparsec.net/wiki/Media.gz | 00:40 |
| tpb | Title: Media.gz - Thousand Parsec Wiki (at www.thousandparsec.net) | 00:40 |
| mithro | http://www.thousandparsec.net/wiki/Mapping_objects_to_media | 00:41 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/h0J> (at www.thousandparsec.net) | 00:41 |
| Asmm | heya. talking about the approaches to media file.... well, i think given that each ruleset potentially represents a different fgame, mapping each media to one ruileset makes perfect sense... if anything, one media can always be used spearately (two copies, two description files, etc) for two different rulesets | 00:47 |
| Asmm | ...as different games are supposed to have different medias in the first place | 00:47 |
| Asmm | re-using the media is a poor man's approach, which has the right to live but i think ultimately is not the best | 00:48 |
| Asmm | (i..e you make a ruleset - take your time and make media pack for it as well, possibly reusing huge chunks of different ruleset's media, but just repack it for your own ruleset) | 00:49 |
| Asmm | btw, one more question about the frames | 00:49 |
| Asmm | supose i know the ruleset i'm working with | 00:49 |
| Asmm | suppose i know in this ruleset there is order XXX, for example "colonize planet at this location" | 00:50 |
| jmtan | so, a new media.gz for each ruleset? | 00:50 |
| Asmm | yeap. I think it makes sense, most games use their own media, right? | 00:50 |
| Asmm | then again, noone forbids you to reuse the media, just repack it and make your own (possibly identical to some other) media.gz for your game | 00:51 |
| Asmm | (continuing the frames and orders question). So, given my knowledge abot the orders in this particular game, how do i get which Order ID is thaty order? | 00:52 |
| Asmm | by textual description? | 00:52 |
| Asmm | or will order IDs be ALWAYS the same in all servers implementing a ruleset? | 00:52 |
| mithro | Asmm: by textual description is the best way | 00:53 |
| Asmm | because even using order desciption, there is no way to tell exactly what a given order tpye is... maybe in my game there is an order "dance wildly", well, can only descibe this as text :) So then do i parse textual description of orderType, or use the same ID each time (and discover ID once again by reading text?) | 00:53 |
| Asmm | so id is not guaranteed to be the sam eacross different implementations of the sam eruleset, right? | 00:53 |
| mithro | true | 00:54 |
| Asmm | ok | 00:54 |
| Asmm | so have to make sure textual description IS the same acrossimplementations | 00:54 |
| mithro | jmtan: so what is the plan with tpclient-pyogre now? | 00:55 |
| jmtan | i want to make it functional asap, so i will have to implement the various orders first | 00:55 |
| mithro | okay | 00:56 |
| jmtan | mithro: how does the goto button for messages work? i can't find any attributes in the message object that would link a message to it's subject (e.g. fleet reached destination) | 00:57 |
| mithro | jmtan: you want to look at the Generic Reference System | 00:57 |
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| mithro | * a list of as described in the Generic Reference System | 00:59 |
| mithro | http://www.thousandparsec.net/tp/dev/documents/protocol3.php#Message_Desc | 00:59 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/1uWt> (at www.thousandparsec.net) | 00:59 |
| jmtan | mithro: thanks, i did notice the reference attribute, but i found it empty. i'll take another closer look | 01:03 |
| mithro | jmtan: see how the message system works in winMessage.py | 01:03 |
| mithro | greywhind is a good person to ask about it | 01:07 |
| mithro | because he wrote the filtering system in tpclient-pywx | 01:07 |
| jmtan | i'll be sure to do that, i did email him with the question already | 01:08 |
| mithro | okay | 01:09 |
| mithro | you might also be able to catch him on IRC | 01:09 |
| mithro | be back in 1 second | 01:09 |
| mithro | back | 01:11 |
| mithro | jmtan: so what is the target for the next 2 weeks? Add order support and? | 01:12 |
| jmtan | mithro: any suggestions? i have a list of minor issues that i want to fix as well | 01:13 |
| mithro | how long do you think orders will take you? | 01:13 |
| mithro | it's a little tricky - but I don't think it's that bad? | 01:14 |
| jmtan | i'm lousy at estimates... but i would say mid-week | 01:14 |
| jmtan | hmm if you say it's tricky then i would extend to friday | 01:15 |
| mithro | tricky/fiddly | 01:16 |
| jmtan | i also want to improve the turn updating, maybe animate the ships moving and show a summary of new event messages | 01:19 |
| mithro | sounds interesting | 01:19 |
| mithro | I think we should spend some time investingating ways to make the UI a little more snazzy | 01:20 |
| mithro | it's very similar to tpclient-pywx atm | 01:20 |
| mithro | do you have any thoughts about that? | 01:23 |
| jmtan | that's a good point | 01:24 |
| mithro | I think you could do something like when you mouse over something the information flys out from behind it? | 01:24 |
| jmtan | i was considering making a build window like in rtses, but greywhind recommended i should use a generic orders window | 01:25 |
| jmtan | mithro: like a popup upon mouseover? similar to what tpclient-pywx does | 01:25 |
| mithro | yeah, you won't actually be able to split out the "build" orders from other thing | 01:25 |
| mithro | kind of | 01:25 |
| mithro | but you could pop-out widget which you could mouse over to get even more information? | 01:26 |
| mithro | maybe something like the radial menus? | 01:26 |
| jmtan | sounds like neverwinter nights | 01:26 |
| jmtan | so clicking on an object will show a radial menu, with various orders? | 01:27 |
| mithro | I was thinking possibly a long those lines | 01:28 |
| jmtan | if it's just info, i think having a tiered menu might be a little much | 01:29 |
| mithro | maybe it could be both? | 01:29 |
| mithro | information and access to quick functions? | 01:29 |
| jmtan | yeah sure, that sounds good | 01:29 |
| mithro | then clicking allows you to zoom in and get the full details or something? | 01:30 |
| mithro | btw, do the planets rotate yet? | 01:30 |
| jmtan | yeah they rotate around their axis, or do you mean orbit around the star? | 01:30 |
| mithro | their axis | 01:31 |
| mithro | I guess I should checkout and actually run the code | 01:31 |
| mithro | :) | 01:32 |
| * mithro does so | 01:32 | |
| mithro | btw - what type of hardware are you running this on? | 01:32 |
| jmtan | oops i haven't updated the server.. but the current repo has the rotation in | 01:33 |
| jmtan | i'm running 9800 radeon pro with 1 gig of ram | 01:33 |
| mithro | quite a high end card then | 01:33 |
| mithro | I'm on a i945 | 01:34 |
| jmtan | oic, and you play supreme commander? | 01:34 |
| jmtan | how does it run? | 01:34 |
| jmtan | my card used to be high-end, but it's like 5 years old now | 01:36 |
| mithro | I play supreme commander on my home computer | 01:37 |
| mithro | not my laptop :) | 01:37 |
| mithro | do the stars spin? | 01:38 |
| jmtan | no, they don't | 01:39 |
| mithro | how does one put up the FPS? | 01:39 |
| jmtan | there's a showDebugOverlay command in tpclient-pyogre, which i've set to false | 01:40 |
| jmtan | but it's blocked by the cegui window | 01:40 |
| jmtan | brb for lunch | 01:40 |
| mithro | okay | 01:40 |
| mithro | it runs fairly slow on my computer when zoomed out | 01:42 |
| mithro | okay when only 1 thing showing :) | 01:42 |
| mithro | I'm not fond of the current background, the stars don't look quite right | 01:43 |
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| jmtan | mithro: i can add more varieties and sizes of stars if you like | 02:25 |
| mithro | jmtan: I mean in the background | 02:43 |
| jmtan | yup - i could vary the sizes and colours of the dots.. or is it too sparse? | 02:44 |
| mithro | not quite sure | 02:45 |
| jmtan | there is a nice looking starfield, http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/mod/journal/journal.asp?jn=263350&cmonth=7&cyear=2005 | 02:50 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/1uXB> (at www.gamedev.net) | 02:50 |
| jmtan | but i have no idea how it is done | 02:51 |
| mithro | anyway I need to head to bed | 02:52 |
| mithro | gnight | 02:53 |
| jmtan | good night | 02:53 |
| Asmm | gnight | 03:01 |
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| JLP | good mornign everyone | 05:07 |
| llnz | hi JLP | 05:43 |
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| zzorn | I always wonder, why is tpb tracking aloril on WF? | 07:31 |
| xdotx | llnz: ping | 07:32 |
| llnz | xdotx: pong! | 07:33 |
| xdotx | llnz: know if i have write access to the risk branch? | 07:34 |
| llnz | you should do | 07:34 |
| llnz | why? | 07:34 |
| xdotx | just tried to push and got:To git+ssh://[email protected]/git/tpserver-cpp.git | 07:35 |
| xdotx | ! [rejected] master -> master (non-fast forward) | 07:35 |
| xdotx | error: failed to push some refs to 'git+ssh://[email protected]/git/tpserver-cpp.git' | 07:35 |
| xdotx | dunno if git and i need to wrestle or if that's a problem outta my control | 07:35 |
| llnz | git-pull first? | 07:35 |
| xdotx | did | 07:36 |
| llnz | odd | 07:36 |
| xdotx | erk. wait i think i might know it | 07:38 |
| xdotx | accidently modified some stuff in rfts | 07:38 |
| xdotx | well.. meant to modify, not commit | 07:39 |
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| xdotx | grr! i fixed that but it's still complaining | 08:02 |
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| llnz | later all | 09:24 |
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| greywhind | hey jmtan - how's it going? | 10:49 |
| jmtan | hi greywhind, nice to see you | 10:49 |
| jmtan | what time is it over there? | 10:50 |
| greywhind | 11:00 AM right now - but when I go back to west coast time (in two weeks), it'll be 8 AM. | 10:51 |
| greywhind | so we should probably switch to my evening/your morning or early afternoon then. | 10:52 |
| jmtan | cool, it's 11 pm here | 10:52 |
| greywhind | i think ship size would be a good way to assign 3D models, as long as that's a standard property across rulesets | 10:53 |
| jmtan | have you compiled python ogre on mac? | 10:54 |
| greywhind | not yet - I can't do that until I get back to my own computer. | 10:54 |
| greywhind | this one has no developer tools installed | 10:54 |
| jmtan | mithro pointed me to the media.gz files earlier today | 10:57 |
| greywhind | so, as far as the message "goto" button, I happen to have been working basically on that recently. | 10:57 |
| greywhind | basically, what you'll need to do is use the message's "references" property | 10:58 |
| jmtan | hm what kind of messages will have the references property? i did take a look but found that attribute to be an empty dict | 10:59 |
| greywhind | let me paste you the related code in the pywx client... | 10:59 |
| greywhind | http://rafb.net/p/fp6CHm27.html | 10:59 |
| tpb | Title: Nopaste - pywx message references for jmtan (at rafb.net) | 10:59 |
| greywhind | i know that player join messages at least have that property - pretty much all messages should. | 11:00 |
| jmtan | great, this code will be very useful, thanks | 11:01 |
| greywhind | no problem. i used the references to create the filters popup as well, since they tell you the type of message and what it refers to. | 11:02 |
| jmtan | okay | 11:06 |
| jmtan | anyway, how do you find the interface so far? from the screenshots | 11:07 |
| greywhind | i definitely like the loook | 11:07 |
| greywhind | *look | 11:07 |
| jmtan | mithro said the layout is a bit too much like tpwx | 11:08 |
| greywhind | i do think the grey fleets look better than the colored ones, but that presents the problem of easily determining who owns what. | 11:08 |
| jmtan | yes, i agree | 11:08 |
| greywhind | maybe... a glow or box around them that has the player's color? | 11:09 |
| jmtan | when it is selected or all the time? | 11:10 |
| greywhind | not sure... i guess you could experiment with what is more useful/looks better | 11:10 |
| greywhind | i'm kind of surprised that mithro thinks it's too much like pywx. doesn't really seem that way to me. | 11:12 |
| jmtan | well the gui is directly based on their tpwx counterparts | 11:12 |
| jmtan | he said he wanted it to be more 'snazzy | 11:13 |
| greywhind | hmm | 11:13 |
| jmtan | which i take to mean either a new layout or animated windows/eye candy | 11:13 |
| greywhind | probably a better layout, as far as the system viewer and orders especially (at least, those are the two windows I never really liked in the pywx client) would do the trick | 11:14 |
| greywhind | from this screenshot: http://bp2.blogger.com/_H-JNu2WhCxk/SEdim5q2zbI/AAAAAAAAAGE/F10feiW1fBU/s1600-h/screenshot_18.png - two things i noticed | 11:16 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/1uYY> (at bp2.blogger.com) | 11:16 |
| greywhind | first, it would look even better if the stars had some antialiasing | 11:16 |
| greywhind | with the glow around them they get a bit rough on the edges | 11:17 |
| greywhind | and second, some of your text seems to start too close to the stars | 11:17 |
| jmtan | okay, noted | 11:18 |
| jmtan | but regarding the first point, i have to optimize a little first as it runs quite slowly when zoomed all out | 11:18 |
| jmtan | however this week my goal is to implement the rest of the orders so that it is playable | 11:19 |
| greywhind | that would be pretty cool | 11:19 |
| jmtan | regarding the layout of system window, how about a separate screen with a list of all systems + some info like how many planets and fleets inside | 11:21 |
| greywhind | that would probably be useful, and it might be doable in such a way that it works independently of the ruleset (so if a ruleset added, say, colonist or moon objects, that would be displayed without any code changes) | 11:23 |
| greywhind | you know, for the messages window, you could break a bit with pywx and make it more interesting by adding a better display of all messages, rather than just one at a time, almost like a mini e-mail client. | 11:24 |
| jmtan | so, two windows - one inbox and one message window? | 11:25 |
| greywhind | or possibly two panels in the same window, one with the list and one displaying the messages. either way would work. | 11:25 |
| jmtan | oh that would be better actually | 11:26 |
| greywhind | have you given any thought to the ship design window? | 11:26 |
| Asmm | heya. i dont like he layout f tpclient-pywx too... I can't say n every detail why, it just feels inconveneint - and i used it enough to get used. the list of all stars and planets is useful, but, realistically, you only need it sometimes. Recall any 4x game you played.. usually you are just interested in "this star next to my star" and stuff liek that. Only sometimee you would liek to see the entire list to say cherry-pick a | 11:27 |
| jmtan | none yet :( | 11:27 |
| jmtan | regarding the orders window, can some improvement be made as well? esp since it's my focus this week | 11:28 |
| greywhind | hmm | 11:28 |
| Asmm | and for messages, yeah, i like the idea of a window ewith the list.. chances the player may ignore half of them by just looking at the header (he knows his fleet is goign to arrive there anyway!), so a list of all of them so that a playter can dismiss all with close is good.. at the same time with such a window it is 1-click access to the stuff he IS interested in | 11:28 |
| Asmm | and how does order window loook now? | 11:28 |
| greywhind | let me see if i can find a screenshot | 11:29 |
| greywhind | hmm... i'll have to make a screenshot | 11:34 |
| greywhind | http://whindgames.50webs.com/otherstuff/Picture%201.png | 11:39 |
| greywhind | http://whindgames.50webs.com/otherstuff/Picture%202.png | 11:39 |
| greywhind | http://whindgames.50webs.com/otherstuff/Picture%203.png | 11:39 |
| greywhind | http://whindgames.50webs.com/otherstuff/Picture%204.png | 11:39 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/1uYd> (at whindgames.50webs.com) | 11:39 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/1uYe> (at whindgames.50webs.com) | 11:39 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/1uYf> (at whindgames.50webs.com) | 11:39 |
| greywhind | so that's what we have in the pywx client | 11:39 |
| jmtan | i wonder what tpb is doing | 11:40 |
| greywhind | jmtan: hmm... i have an idea for the 3d client | 11:40 |
| greywhind | maybe some kind of radial menu, if that's possible, around an object that gives the types of orders, then when you select a type of order it brings up the options list | 11:41 |
| jmtan | would that make the orders window unnecessary? | 11:42 |
| greywhind | i think it would be able to replace the orders window. | 11:42 |
| greywhind | it would also have to show the current queue of orders though | 11:43 |
| jmtan | what about setting order parameters such as which building or fleet to build | 11:46 |
| greywhind | jmtan: that would probably still have to be a popup, but even the current orders window has it in a separate panel, basically dynamically generated | 11:47 |
| jmtan | cool, so the orders window would remain just to show the queue and edit/delete orders | 11:49 |
| greywhind | jmtan: i think a simple display of the current order the object is following (without opening a separate window) would be nice, if possible | 11:50 |
| jmtan | good point, that should be easier than the radial menu itself | 11:51 |
| greywhind | jmtan: i should probably get off now, but is there anything else you want to talk about first? | 11:52 |
| jmtan | nope, i'm pretty tired as well. and i've got lots to think about now | 11:53 |
| greywhind | k | 11:53 |
| greywhind | see you later | 11:53 |
| jmtan | alright, see you | 11:53 |
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| jmtan | good night everyone | 11:54 |
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| CIA-24 | aaron tpserver-cpp-config * r2ec88fd1e084 /configure.ac: Removed libtprl check from configure.ac. | 15:43 |
| CIA-24 | aaron tpserver-cpp-config * r0ffd3caa185a /tpserver/main.cpp: Properly handling SIGTERM and SIGINT in debug mode. | 15:43 |
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| mithro | heyo people | 20:03 |
| mithro | how is everything today? | 20:03 |
| mithro | quiet I see :) | 20:57 |
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| mithro | ~seen xdotx | 21:54 |
| tpb | mithro: xdotx was last seen in #tp 13 hours, 51 minutes, and 56 seconds ago: <xdotx> grr! i fixed that but it's still complaining | 21:54 |
| mithro | bblr | 22:04 |
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