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| CIA-29 | pluskid schemepy * r22046ffdb5b2 /schemepy/guile/ (guile.py profiles/scope.scm): Test case for scoping of multi VM passed. | 02:08 |
|---|---|---|
| CIA-29 | pluskid schemepy * r4d8553354ccd /schemepy/guile/ (guile.py profiles/scope.scm): Profile support added for VM. | 02:08 |
| CIA-29 | pluskid schemepy * r0e5e208e5b8d /tests/ (34 files in 2 dirs): Migrated existing test cases from py.test to nose. | 02:08 |
| CIA-29 | pluskid schemepy * reef7e2b5737c /Makefile: Updated Makefile with respect to 'py.test -> nose' migration. | 02:08 |
| CIA-29 | pluskid schemepy * r757453caac52 /doc/log_book/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Finished the task of profile of vm. | 02:20 |
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| llnz2 | oops | 02:26 |
| *** llnz2 is now known as llnz | 02:26 | |
| llnz | was still logged in at uni | 02:26 |
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| mithro | llnz: the email is on the list now :) | 02:57 |
| mithro | I think the logs need to stay in the topic | 02:57 |
| *** mithro changes topic to "Thousand Parsec - www.thousandparsec.net || Why not help out? - www.thousandparsec.net/wiki/Getting_started_with_development || Logs at www.thousandparsec.net/~irc/" | 02:58 | |
| mithro | or we need that notice thing that #python does | 02:59 |
| mithro | ~seen JLafont | 03:14 |
| tpb | mithro: JLafont was last seen in #tp 5 days, 0 hours, 29 minutes, and 15 seconds ago: <JLafont> mithro, will do | 03:14 |
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| llnz | i'll answer the email shortly | 03:19 |
| nash | Anyway... night all | 03:24 |
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| JLP | good morning everyone | 03:54 |
| llnz | hi JLP | 03:55 |
| * JLP puts on a TP t-shirt as it is finally warm enough in our little corner | 03:57 | |
| llnz | hehe | 03:57 |
| CIA-29 | alklomion /tmp/AG69wsMENs/bfNYYqjyow-midp * r15ebd927b7ef /src-generated/net/thousandparsec/netlib/tp03/ (73 files): | 04:06 |
| CIA-29 | Removed String.Format from all these classes, also replaced some for-each loops | 04:06 |
| CIA-29 | with for loops. All string buffer issues have been replaced to use default | 04:06 |
| CIA-29 | string functions. Finally, some generics that were missed have been removed. | 04:06 |
| CIA-29 | Very few errors remain in the majority of classes | 04:06 |
| CIA-29 | via git-CVS emulator | 04:06 |
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| CIA-29 | jmingtan tpclient-pyogre * rcc3367c6e5b6 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Implement information window | 06:43 |
| CIA-29 | jmingtan tpclient-pyogre * rdcdb15357880 / (src/Scene.py windows/system.layout): Implement messages window | 06:43 |
| CIA-29 | jmingtan tpclient-pyogre * r634d17375a69 / (src/Scene.py windows/system.layout): Implement system list | 06:43 |
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| llnz | wb mithro | 08:12 |
| llnz | i will have limited internet tomorrow and wednesday | 08:40 |
| * llnz wanders off | 08:41 | |
| llnz | later all | 08:41 |
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| mithro | hello Iwanowitch | 09:12 |
| Iwanowitch | Heya. | 09:12 |
| mithro | Iwanowitch: so where are you at? | 09:14 |
| Iwanowitch | mithro: In general, it's pretty busy here... And way too warm to do anything productive, too. | 09:19 |
| mithro | Iwanowitch: have you finished your exams? | 09:19 |
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| Iwanowitch | mithro: Nope, in Belgium, exams are until end of June. We're still having classes. | 09:20 |
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| Iwanowitch | Ans projects. And deadlines. And fun. | 09:20 |
| mithro | GSoC officially starts in 2 weeks | 09:21 |
| Iwanowitch | Yes, I know. I will be working on TP, but as I wrote in my proposal, the first period might see not as much productivity as for others. | 09:23 |
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| mithro | Iwanowitch: obviously we still need to see some progress | 09:57 |
| Iwanowitch | mithro: Of course. I have a schedule in the proposal and I plan to keep to it. Progress included. | 10:02 |
| mithro | Iwanowitch: posting blog posts and being active on the mailing lists are good ways to keep involved | 10:02 |
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| mithro | ~seen JLafont | 10:09 |
| tpb | mithro: JLafont was last seen in #tp 5 days, 7 hours, 23 minutes, and 59 seconds ago: <JLafont> mithro, will do | 10:09 |
| Iwanowitch | mithro: True. Not much to report though at the moment and I can't really chime in with the current discussions on the ML. | 10:10 |
| Iwanowitch | mithro: Though, I should be able to do something this week. | 10:10 |
| Iwanowitch | Or, more to the point, study the Python client libs. | 10:11 |
| mithro | okay | 10:17 |
| mithro | it would be good to start making weekly status reports even when not a lot of work is happening | 10:18 |
| tpb | aloril_ has quit worldforge (Ping timeout: 378 seconds) | 10:19 |
| Iwanowitch | mithro: is blog okay for that? I suppose I can keep to a weekly (or more in interesting times) post rate. | 10:25 |
| mithro | yeah that would be perfect | 10:25 |
| mithro | you have to remeber that if you don't talk we can only assume you have been doing nothing | 10:29 |
| mithro | we can't read your mind | 10:29 |
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| mithro | hey bddebian | 10:33 |
| bddebian | Heya folks | 10:34 |
| bddebian | Hi mithro | 10:34 |
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| mithro | how goes life? | 10:39 |
| tpb | aloril has joined on worldforge | 10:39 |
| bddebian | Lousy.. :-( You? | 10:42 |
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| mithro | start work at Google next week | 10:54 |
| bddebian | Nice | 10:54 |
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| mithro | jphr! | 12:59 |
| jphr | Yes! | 13:00 |
| jphr | how is your windows and mac hating self doing? | 13:00 |
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| bddebian | heh | 13:04 |
| jphr | I think I scared him off | 13:11 |
| mithro | I hate mac and windows? | 13:14 |
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| jphr | I just thought from your post about grammar you were implying you disliked them :P | 13:15 |
| mithro | ? | 13:16 |
| jphr | http://tinyurl.com/4yt6lb | 13:17 |
| tpb | Title: Mithro rants about stuff : rock verses rocks (at tinyurl.com) | 13:17 |
| jphr | I realize those probably werent your words | 13:18 |
| mithro | well they do suck - but that doesn't mean I hate them :P | 13:18 |
| jphr | haha, your a jerk :P | 13:18 |
| jphr | but you are write in a way, mac os x sucks...at compiling tpserver-cpp | 13:19 |
| mithro | jphr: don't get me started on Mac OS X ;) | 13:20 |
| jphr | mithro: but i have too! unless you suggest I just use a linux server vm (which I am perfectly comfortable with) | 13:21 |
| jphr | xdotx sort of implied I should keep trying to get it going in osx, but I am about fed up compiling tpserver-cpp in it | 13:22 |
| mithro | jphr: it would be good if someone was able to get tpserver-cpp compiling on MacOS X | 13:29 |
| jphr | mithro: then I have to ask, did you read my most recent post about compile issues? | 13:30 |
| * JLP returns from work | 13:30 | |
| mithro | yeah - but I don't know anything about mac ports | 13:31 |
| mithro | apart from the fact that it works badly | 13:31 |
| jphr | hehe, i've noticed | 13:31 |
| jphr | anything to say about the syntax error? | 13:31 |
| mithro | it means that autogen.sh is not working | 13:33 |
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| jphr | oh ok | 13:35 |
| mithro | stupidly autogen.sh will just copy the contents when it doesn't know how to expand it | 13:36 |
| jphr | mithro: well I'll let you stew, I'm going to go grab mail, eat | 13:38 |
| mithro | I'm just about to go to bed | 13:38 |
| jphr | oh ok I can wait | 13:38 |
| mithro | so if you want to discuss Risk stuff | 13:38 |
| mithro | now would be the best time | 13:38 |
| jphr | Sure | 13:38 |
| mithro | so... you can drive :) | 13:39 |
| jphr | mithro: like I said in the blog, your proposed method of "one big turn" instead of baby steps, is really good | 13:39 |
| jphr | mithro: it clears up for me a lot of questions about "how to control game state" etc, by removing them all together | 13:39 |
| mithro | so - do you have any questions or proposal you want to discuss about it | 13:39 |
| jphr | Mainly how you forsee us implementing the graph-based travel along paths? | 13:40 |
| mithro | well | 13:40 |
| mithro | as I was suggesting | 13:40 |
| mithro | I don't think that "Units" should be real objects | 13:40 |
| mithro | but properties on a territory | 13:41 |
| jphr | oh yes, i really like that | 13:41 |
| mithro | so then you need a "move x units to y" on each planet | 13:41 |
| mithro | s/planet/territory/ | 13:41 |
| jphr | yes, from what I understood of the docs planets are the interesting property holders | 13:42 |
| jphr | So does that incur a whole lot of work on tpserver-cpp or just a little? | 13:42 |
| mithro | so then you need a "move x units to y" order on each planet | 13:42 |
| mithro | which is a | 13:42 |
| mithro | move <range value> to <choice value> | 13:43 |
| mithro | so each territory restricts the choice values to the connected territories | 13:43 |
| jphr | in that the only options availible would be valid ones? | 13:44 |
| jphr | (for a choice value) | 13:44 |
| mithro | yeah | 13:46 |
| mithro | of course the range value would be restricted by the number of units you have at a location | 13:46 |
| mithro | btw - do you understand how you can have multiple orders resolve correctly in a single turn generation? | 13:47 |
| jphr | okay, I mean I don't know how to code that for tp yet, but if I did then I probably wouldn't be here :P. I can see though how it should work, and pseudocode kinda coalesces | 13:47 |
| jphr | you mean multiple orders by one unit? or conflicing units? | 13:47 |
| mithro | both | 13:49 |
| mithro | jphr: I'm totally talking independent of the implimentation details | 13:50 |
| jphr | oh ok! | 13:50 |
| jphr | i was writing out a big thing.. | 13:50 |
| mithro | I have very little idea how the internals of tpserver-cpp actually work :) | 13:51 |
| jphr | that puts me at ease :P | 13:51 |
| jphr | Multiple orders: let the player move freely within their own territory, once a move occurs to attack another territory happens, cut off the rest of the orders | 13:51 |
| mithro | you should treat orders on an object like a queue | 13:52 |
| jphr | Multiple units: This comes down to the conflict resolution I may have mentioned, Dice are added to the side that is receiving an advantage. This may require some n^2 algorithm to check if any units occupied something b4 | 13:53 |
| jphr | (yeah I was thinking of orders as a queue, I don't think I mentioned that) | 13:53 |
| mithro | so you could have this queue | 13:53 |
| mithro | Add units to territory, Move units to x, Attack blah | 13:54 |
| mithro | and all those three orders could occur in a single turn | 13:54 |
| jphr | I guess if you treat the planet as you've said, it would happen like that :P | 13:54 |
| mithro | as in turn resolution you do all "add units orders", then all "move units order", then all "attack orders" | 13:55 |
| mithro | make sense? | 13:55 |
| jphr | ok, so that considered, every order in the queue would be processed, reinforce would occur if the player has resources, attacks happen and "use up" availible armies, and move units occurs and can move them anywhere in owned territory | 13:56 |
| jphr | oh ok | 13:56 |
| jphr | so you don't go through one by one? you pop them off into seperate queues? | 13:56 |
| mithro | no | 13:56 |
| jphr | no? | 13:56 |
| mithro | you consider the board as a whole | 13:56 |
| jphr | ah yes | 13:56 |
| mithro | and do all "add units orders" on every object (if it's the first thing in the queue) | 13:57 |
| mithro | so for example | 13:58 |
| mithro | you could have the following queue | 13:58 |
| mithro | Nop, Add, Move, Attack | 13:58 |
| jphr | (before you really have to go, what do you feel is most pertinent for me to complete before starting. Tyler and I had discussed and hoped I could have a shell ruleset up and running before coding start?) | 13:59 |
| mithro | if your turn resolution then occurs in the order | 13:59 |
| jphr | (but keep going) | 13:59 |
| mithro | Add, Move, Attack, Nop - then only the first order would be executed that turn | 13:59 |
| mithro | jphr: the two most important things I would say are | 13:59 |
| jphr | oh yes | 13:59 |
| mithro | 1. Getting a shell ruleset up and running | 13:59 |
| jphr | totally see what you mean now | 13:59 |
| mithro | 2. Figuring out how most of the mechanics of your rulesets would work | 14:00 |
| mithro | it's a good test to play your ruleset "manually" | 14:00 |
| jphr | I'm sorry I forget what Nop is? | 14:00 |
| mithro | No Operation :) | 14:00 |
| mithro | it's a do nothing | 14:01 |
| jphr | oh ok | 14:01 |
| mithro | hence it should always be the last order to be run in a turn | 14:01 |
| mithro | otherwise you might do something that turn | 14:01 |
| mithro | make sense? | 14:01 |
| jphr | yes | 14:01 |
| mithro | cool :) | 14:02 |
| mithro | you can explain all this to Nurelan when he hits these problems too ;) | 14:02 |
| jphr | hehe, well I am glad there are IRC logs :P i may not be able to recite it all yet | 14:02 |
| mithro | hrm that should be Nuleren i think | 14:02 |
| mithro | explaining things to others is a great way to find holes in your own knowledge | 14:03 |
| jphr | I still need to wrap my head around my whole turn order | 14:03 |
| jphr | I get all the little pieces, but I need to put it all together | 14:04 |
| mithro | for a look at what a complicated turn order processing looks like - http://wiki.gible.net/index.php?title=Order_of_Events | 14:04 |
| mithro | :) | 14:04 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/1rP7> (at wiki.gible.net) | 14:05 |
| jphr | Now does my turn ordering have to fall into the mould of the docs online? or can it be whatever I want? | 14:05 |
| mithro | it should be documented on the wiki somewhere in your ruleset explaination | 14:06 |
| mithro | it will be important to advanced players | 14:06 |
| jphr | mithro: oh wow, like now I can't have lunch after seeing that | 14:06 |
| mithro | I'm thinking you'll probably have 3-4 stages | 14:07 |
| mithro | the most important thing about this is that the turn processing has to be deterministic | 14:07 |
| jphr | reinforce, move, attack, ...? | 14:07 |
| mithro | nop | 14:07 |
| mithro | maybe you might add more advanced stuff too | 14:07 |
| jphr | Is it possible to resolve an order before turn processing? | 14:08 |
| mithro | no - and it shouldn't be possible | 14:08 |
| jphr | mmkay, just wondering | 14:08 |
| mithro | the only time things in the universe should change is during turn processing | 14:08 |
| jphr | Okay, now is it wrong for me to sort of see attacking/moving as the same thing, just depends where the ship lands? | 14:09 |
| mithro | jphr: nope, that seems reasonable to me :) | 14:09 |
| mithro | however | 14:09 |
| mithro | you may want to seperate them | 14:09 |
| jphr | so if I tell a ship to make a whole bunch of moves, and the first happens to be an attack, the attack is resolved, and it doesn't move. But if a movement places a unit on another friendly territory it process es the next move | 14:09 |
| jphr | You said the orders queue is like a big pot for the entire board? not just a single planet? | 14:10 |
| mithro | jphr: no you misunderstood | 14:10 |
| mithro | each planet has it's own order queue | 14:10 |
| jphr | thought I might have | 14:10 |
| jphr | got it | 14:10 |
| mithro | but in turn processing | 14:10 |
| mithro | you take the first order of each queue and do it if it makes sense | 14:11 |
| jphr | yes, that makes sense | 14:11 |
| mithro | IE | 14:11 |
| jphr | like a raid array:P | 14:11 |
| mithro | getting this turn processing stuff right will be the trickest part | 14:12 |
| mithro | but it's something you can test without any code :) | 14:12 |
| jphr | ok, that puts me at ease, as well | 14:12 |
| jphr | now, do I have any indication as to who (player) ordered which turn first? | 14:12 |
| jphr | Or do I have to randomly pick planets to execute moves from, to be fair? | 14:13 |
| mithro | jphr: just build up some scenarios and try and resolve it | 14:13 |
| mithro | I would personally prefer having a predetermined order | 14:13 |
| jphr | now can I make the assumption that I may decide to only process add orders in the front of all queues first | 14:14 |
| jphr | and if a player decided to issue those orders later he is SOL? | 14:14 |
| mithro | something like Territory A moves first, then Terr B, then Terr C | 14:14 |
| jphr | ok | 14:14 |
| mithro | which could be considered a "higher ground" advantage | 14:14 |
| mithro | or maybe the territories which the least amount of units move first | 14:15 |
| jphr | hmm, that could be interesting | 14:15 |
| jphr | queues in c++ hold how many items they have? (sadly only used queues in java) | 14:16 |
| mithro | i have no idea | 14:16 |
| mithro | implimentation details are not really important | 14:16 |
| jphr | ah haha. Well that will have to be figured out. | 14:16 |
| mithro | and infact you shouldn't need to know how many items | 14:16 |
| mithro | you only ever need to know what the first item in an order queue is | 14:16 |
| jphr | yes | 14:17 |
| mithro | when you complete the order, you just pop it off | 14:17 |
| jphr | ok, my mind is racing now trying to think about how things SHOULD happen | 14:17 |
| mithro | the best way is to play some games "on paper" | 14:18 |
| mithro | you got 6 minutes :) | 14:20 |
| mithro | I'm going to go to bed at 4:00am ;) | 14:20 |
| jphr | its a good thing the risk model makes for a fairly simple collection of data to fully represent a board. Planets have number of units, connectivity, thats about it. | 14:20 |
| jphr | yeah i saw that | 14:20 |
| jphr | hey, can a player have a property? | 14:20 |
| jphr | like # of resources? | 14:20 |
| mithro | not really | 14:20 |
| mithro | btw - there are interesting things you could do to Risk for very small effort | 14:21 |
| mithro | like having a Fog of War | 14:21 |
| jphr | I wont keep you, but how can I control the # of resources a player can have? | 14:21 |
| mithro | jphr: hrm? | 14:21 |
| jphr | well we were saying a player could place say, 100 resources, how do you keep tabs on how many he has used | 14:21 |
| mithro | jphr: you'll need to store it somewhere | 14:22 |
| jphr | other than introducing a variable that is filled.... yeah okay i thought so | 14:22 |
| mithro | that is an implimentation detail however :) | 14:22 |
| mithro | adding a counter somewhere is trivial ;) | 14:22 |
| jphr | i know, i know, jumping the gun :P | 14:22 |
| jphr | Well I'll work on solidifying my turn today | 14:22 |
| mithro | maybe you could have a "side bar" where each player has a non-territory which contains all the unassigned units | 14:23 |
| jphr | or a message could be sent to them at the beginning of the turn? | 14:23 |
| mithro | only allowing a player to reinforce a single territory each turn would also dramatic change game play | 14:23 |
| jphr | it could | 14:24 |
| mithro | Risk has this advantage that small changes can quite change the game | 14:24 |
| jphr | there is a lot of room for variants, I could spend a lot of time implementing the ability to control them through the conf | 14:24 |
| mithro | so I think you could end up with a bunch of "risk variants" | 14:24 |
| mithro | don't see it as a primary focus | 14:24 |
| jphr | yes, variants don't do any good if you dont have a game :P | 14:25 |
| mithro | :) | 14:25 |
| jphr | What time your time is best to catch you? | 14:25 |
| mithro | from Thursday next week I will be on a US timezone for a couple of weeks | 14:26 |
| mithro | Google is sending me to the States for training | 14:26 |
| jphr | oh awesome | 14:26 |
| jphr | what do you do for a living? | 14:26 |
| mithro | so I'm not sure how much time I'll be around however | 14:26 |
| * mithro is a "computer person" | 14:26 | |
| jphr | arent we all? | 14:26 |
| mithro | I do everything from Sysadmin, to Programming, to Support | 14:27 |
| mithro | so I'm going to be very in and out the next couple of weeks | 14:28 |
| mithro | I'm on a UTC+9:30 timezone currently | 14:28 |
| jphr | okay, well my blog may be the best way to communicate then | 14:28 |
| mithro | posting on your blog is a good way to try and put your thoughts together | 14:28 |
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| jphr | I'll let you get going though | 14:29 |
| mithro | okay | 14:31 |
| mithro | thanks | 14:31 |
| mithro | keep up the good work | 14:31 |
| mithro | it's great to see you actively thinking about stuff | 14:31 |
| jphr | I'll try my best, and thanks | 14:31 |
| mithro | don't forget to do weekly status reports | 14:31 |
| mithro | from the start of GSoC they will be compulsory, but a good habit to start now | 14:31 |
| jphr | where's the best place to put those? | 14:31 |
| mithro | your blog is probably the best | 14:32 |
| jphr | OK, it will probably help to go over the weeks posts anyways, and collect the highlights | 14:32 |
| mithro | yeah | 14:33 |
| mithro | we don't ask you to do them because we like making you do friviously work :) | 14:34 |
| jphr | How is everyone else coming along? I haven't really noticed much buzz on tp-devel or the feed at planet soc? | 14:34 |
| jphr | I'm going to jet too, need to eat! | 14:36 |
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| llnz_laptop | hi all | 19:41 |
| nash | heyo llnz* | 19:42 |
| llnz_laptop | :-) | 19:42 |
| notjotham | hey llnz | 19:43 |
| notjotham | get my email? | 19:43 |
| llnz_laptop | hi notjotham | 19:44 |
| llnz_laptop | yes | 19:44 |
| notjotham | cool | 19:44 |
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| llnz_laptop | bbs, lunch | 20:12 |
| nash | bastard | 20:16 |
| nash | it's only 10 here | 20:16 |
| CIA-29 | victor.ivri gencon-rfts-ai * re031db14e424 / (README gencon/Client.java gencon/Runner.java): Very basic client; successfully connects to server. | 20:21 |
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| llnz_laptop | later all | 23:43 |
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