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| drakythe | hello...? is this chat alive? | 00:06 |
|---|---|---|
| drakythe | I'll take that as a no... well if anyone does come on... I would appreciate knowing how to issue orders to my newly formed starsystem... | 00:15 |
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| mithro | anyone alive? | 02:22 |
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| JLP | mithro: i've just become alive again :) | 04:50 |
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| remaxim | hi | 06:38 |
| llnz | hi remaxim | 06:40 |
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| llnz | later all | 07:10 |
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| mithro | hey remaxim | 08:15 |
| remaxim | hi mithro | 08:15 |
| mithro | I've had a chance to listen to your stuff on a decent sound system | 08:15 |
| mithro | and they are quite different then on my crappy laptop computer :P | 08:15 |
| remaxim | mithro, and did you find something you want to be improved? | 08:15 |
| mithro | I have some feedback | 08:16 |
| mithro | I'll write it up tommorrow | 08:16 |
| remaxim | great | 08:17 |
| mithro | my hearing has been quite stuffed | 08:17 |
| remaxim | mithro, I realized that actually I want to keep working on TP | 08:17 |
| remaxim | but only under certain conditions ;) | 08:17 |
| remaxim | that's why I wanted to talk to you | 08:17 |
| mithro | remaxim: yeah, I saw that | 08:18 |
| * mithro reads the logs :) | 08:18 | |
| remaxim | I didn't tell the conditions yet ;) | 08:18 |
| mithro | yeah, so what are your conditions? | 08:19 |
| mithro | remaxim: btw, I'm sorry that I have not gotten back to you sooner | 08:19 |
| mithro | december is always really hectic :( | 08:19 |
| remaxim | np | 08:20 |
| remaxim | those are 3: .... first: you have to implent sound support..... second: you have to tell me how the final version of the music should sound like, so I can release my soundtrack for tp album ... third: you rename the game in million parsec... thousand sounds lame | 08:20 |
| mithro | in fact, I have been so busy with work, I havn't done any real tp work in about 3-4 weeks :( | 08:20 |
| remaxim | btw: the third one is a joke ;) | 08:21 |
| mithro | remaxim: how about a billion parsec! :P | 08:21 |
| remaxim | not bad as well ;) | 08:21 |
| mithro | remaxim: okay, I may actually get greywhind to work on sound support - it should only take a day worth of work | 08:21 |
| remaxim | okay... | 08:22 |
| remaxim | what about the second condition? | 08:22 |
| mithro | the second is fine :) I just need to get around to doing it | 08:22 |
| remaxim | ok... telll me when you're finished with that | 08:23 |
| mithro | remaxim: if I give you an account on the media repository, do you think you could add your music to that? | 08:24 |
| remaxim | btw: in meantime I found a rapper I could produce for and started to work for the freeciv project :) | 08:24 |
| mithro | it would be easier to keep track of all the versions then | 08:24 |
| remaxim | please don't get jealous about the freeciv stuff ;) | 08:24 |
| mithro | nah, it's still open source | 08:25 |
| mithro | if you release it under the GPL and we like it, we can still use it :) | 08:25 |
| remaxim | mithro, I don't want to release all versions of my work... just the current/good ones | 08:25 |
| mithro | remaxim: specially the intro stuff would be good to have all the versions - as it would then let us figure out what we actually want | 08:25 |
| remaxim | mithro, it's an totally other theme http://www.box.net/shared/74o6h705c8 | 08:25 |
| tpb | Title: Box.net - Free Online File Storage, Internet File Sharing, Online Storage, Access Documents & Files Anywhere, Backup Data, Send Files (at www.box.net) | 08:26 |
| mithro | plus that box.net drives me nutty | 08:26 |
| remaxim | mithro, yeah... I can agree on the intro stuff | 08:26 |
| remaxim | mithro, why? | 08:26 |
| mithro | because if you just gave me a link to the mp3, it would open up in a proper media player | 08:27 |
| mithro | and I don't get very good speed from it :( | 08:27 |
| remaxim | you just have to push the download button... | 08:27 |
| remaxim | oh, ok! my other space is even slower than that ;) | 08:28 |
| mithro | remaxim: two clicks instead of one and i'm lazy ;) | 08:28 |
| remaxim | ok... I can understand that :D | 08:28 |
| remaxim | but I still like box.net .... it's easy to work with and organize stuff and you get plenty of webspace for free ... | 08:29 |
| mithro | remaxim: interesting | 08:29 |
| remaxim | mithro, yeah... I was paid for saying that ... now I get more webspace from box.net ;) | 08:30 |
| remaxim | mithro, how difficult is it to use the media repository | 08:30 |
| mithro | (currently listening on my crappy laptop) | 08:30 |
| mithro | remaxim: well, it uses subversion - which is pretty easy once you get use to it | 08:31 |
| remaxim | mithro, I don't really want to get used to something ;) | 08:31 |
| mithro | remaxim: it's pretty popular amoung open source projects | 08:31 |
| remaxim | I just want to use it... as easily as possible :D ... that way I can save a lot of time | 08:32 |
| remaxim | mithro, I know... I ve used it quite a while ago... but I uploaded anything that way | 08:32 |
| mithro | I would recommend installing http://tortoisesvn.net/ | 08:33 |
| remaxim | mithro, what did you mean with "my hearing has been quite stuffed" | 08:33 |
| tpb | Title: TortoiseSVN | The coolest Interface to (Sub)Version Control (at tortoisesvn.net) | 08:33 |
| remaxim | ok, that looks quite easy to use | 08:33 |
| remaxim | I could try that | 08:33 |
| mithro | can you message me a username and password? | 08:33 |
| remaxim | you have to message me first ... | 08:34 |
| remaxim | I m using a jabber irc transport... that way I only can answer on messages from others | 08:34 |
| remaxim | mithro, could you explain me how to use it another time? | 08:37 |
| remaxim | I have to go now | 08:37 |
| mithro | sure | 08:37 |
| remaxim | bye | 08:38 |
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| remaxim | hi | 10:59 |
| remaxim | mithro, are you still here? | 10:59 |
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| remaxim | I found a great license for my music... someone in the other channel had a disscussion with RMS and that's how this license was developed: ""Permission is hereby given to copy, modify and redistribute this music/graphic to accompany any software licensed under the Free Software Foundation's GNU General Public License, version 2 or any later version. If you redistribute this file, the copyright notice and these license terms must be retained, as must any attri | 13:36 |
| remaxim | what do you think of it? | 13:36 |
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| llnz | remaxim: seems fine to me, but poke mithro when he gets up as to what he thinks | 13:49 |
| remaxim | ok... I ll do that! | 13:49 |
| remaxim | thanks | 13:49 |
| remaxim | I have to go | 13:51 |
| remaxim | bye | 13:51 |
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| llnz | the more i think about it, the less i like that license | 14:26 |
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| remaxim | hi | 16:56 |
| llnz | wb remaxim | 16:56 |
| llnz | i have a concern about that license | 16:56 |
| remaxim | llnz, what's the deal? | 16:56 |
| llnz | it's greatest restriction, must be with gpl software, is also it's greatest loophole | 16:57 |
| llnz | i could create a cd, with a data track with gpl ping on it, and sell it | 16:58 |
| remaxim | llnz, yes you could | 16:58 |
| llnz | no one would bother with the program | 16:58 |
| llnz | it's an annoying issue for tp, for example a soundtrack cd would need to have software with it (which isn't a half bad idea) | 16:59 |
| remaxim | I could add a clause that "hacking"(I dunno how to call it) the license is forbidden ... that way it wouldn't be 100% clear ... but probably in most cases the judge would decide for the author | 17:00 |
| remaxim | llnz, there will be a soundtrack cd made by me... but that will have another license ... | 17:01 |
| llnz | more to the point, a comercial game could still use the music if they ship one piece of gpl software | 17:01 |
| llnz | for example, hello world or ping | 17:01 |
| remaxim | I mean the makers of gpl games shouldn't be too interested in soundtrack cds ... and if they are they could try get a second license | 17:01 |
| llnz | you would still get credit though | 17:02 |
| remaxim | llnz, yeah... but that is what I call hacking | 17:02 |
| remaxim | someone has to be really desperate if he/she does that | 17:02 |
| remaxim | I have to talk to some guys from the fsf or stuff ... | 17:03 |
| llnz | re: gpl games and soundtracks: we try to get the name/brand out there, marketing stuff and so on | 17:03 |
| llnz | soundtrack could be a way to draw people in | 17:03 |
| llnz | this is also the reason behind the calendar | 17:03 |
| remaxim | llnz, I will release a soundtrack by myself with an CC license | 17:04 |
| llnz | it also raises a little money to pay for our servers and other costs | 17:04 |
| remaxim | llnz, the soundtrack is made by me... don't forget that ;) | 17:05 |
| llnz | yeah, no problem, i wont forget | 17:05 |
| peres | money, share it fairly but don't take a slice of my pie (roger waters ;) ) | 17:05 |
| llnz | but what happens with we have 4 people making music and we want to show off? | 17:06 |
| llnz | peres: kudos, share it and the more shared the more there is | 17:06 |
| llnz | oss is built on kudos | 17:07 |
| remaxim | what is kudos? | 17:07 |
| remaxim | llnz, what do you mean with show off? | 17:08 |
| llnz | remaxim: other names for the same sort of thing are credit and karma | 17:08 |
| remaxim | ah... ok! thx | 17:09 |
| remaxim | llnz, so what do you mean with show off? | 17:09 |
| llnz | well, show off as in make it available to people to listen to, either on our website, in game, or on cd | 17:09 |
| llnz | (or other formats) | 17:09 |
| remaxim | llnz, double licensing it with CC-BY-SA-NC ... that's IMO the best way I heard off | 17:11 |
| remaxim | so you can decide which license you use... and as those two ways of usage are strictly separated you have no problems with it | 17:12 |
| remaxim | llnz, does it sound convincing? | 17:15 |
| remaxim | I m not the only one who should be happy with the license ;) | 17:15 |
| llnz | huumm... have to think | 17:20 |
| llnz | hopefully mithro will read this | 17:21 |
| llnz | bbs | 17:21 |
| remaxim | bbs= be back sometime? | 17:21 |
| llnz | be back soon | 17:49 |
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| mithro | remaxim: ping? | 18:16 |
| remaxim | mithro, pong | 18:17 |
| remaxim | brb | 18:17 |
| mithro | remaxim: a couple of problems with the license | 18:17 |
| mithro | 1. new licenses are bad - they need to be designed by lawyers not (because the law sucks) | 18:18 |
| mithro | 2. it is not really a free license if you considered the DFSG guidelines | 18:18 |
| remaxim | why is it not free considering the DFSG guidelines? | 18:21 |
| remaxim | mithro, it wasn't designed by lawyers, but it was proposed by RMS and Eben moglen | 18:21 |
| mithro | remaxim: when it is on the FSF we can have a look at it | 18:22 |
| remaxim | mithro, so you're against it till there is a official license? | 18:23 |
| mithro | remaxim: yeah, I'm afraid so | 18:23 |
| remaxim | mithro, :( | 18:23 |
| mithro | remaxim: sorry, licensing is a really sucky subject :( | 18:24 |
| mithro | and the easist way to make it less sucky is to just go with the GPL/LGPL | 18:24 |
| remaxim | did you read the license? | 18:24 |
| mithro | even the GNU FDL has problems | 18:24 |
| mithro | remaxim: only the part you pasted above | 18:26 |
| remaxim | mithro, please just read it... it's short | 18:26 |
| remaxim | http://rafb.net/p/fhfvHc79.html | 18:27 |
| tpb | Title: Nopaste - fsaa beta3 (at rafb.net) | 18:27 |
| mithro | you didn't give a link | 18:27 |
| remaxim | that's the main part: "Permission is hereby given to copy, modify and redistribute this | 18:27 |
| remaxim | work of art to accompany any software licensed under the Free Software | 18:27 |
| remaxim | Foundation's GNU General Public License, version 2 or any later version. | 18:27 |
| remaxim | If you redistribute this file, the copyright notice and these license | 18:27 |
| remaxim | terms must be retained, as must any attribution to the author and | 18:27 |
| remaxim | original project it was produced for." | 18:27 |
| mithro | wow - this part is going to be a huge problem | 18:29 |
| mithro | It is permitted to move author and project attribution from one place to | 18:29 |
| mithro | another if this is convenient and does not reduce their visibility to | 18:29 |
| mithro | less than what is reasonable and no less prominent than other similar | 18:29 |
| mithro | attributions in other artwork being distributed along with it. | 18:29 |
| mithro | remaxim: yeah, that license is not going to work | 18:30 |
| mithro | sorry | 18:30 |
| remaxim | mithro, I don't understand that part with the prominent attribution | 18:31 |
| remaxim | I don't want to have it in there as well | 18:31 |
| remaxim | I think that guy just added this clause on the fly | 18:31 |
| mithro | well, that is a legal mine field | 18:31 |
| mithro | anything which uses the word "reasonable" is going to be problems | 18:33 |
| mithro | remaxim: it also doesn't allow redistribution with LGPL, BSD, Artistic, etc | 18:34 |
| remaxim | mithro, forget that paragraph | 18:34 |
| remaxim | yeah.. it doesn't but as your game isn't any of those licenses I don't have to care | 18:35 |
| remaxim | btw: it is allowed to use it with any of those if there is gpl code for the game as well | 18:35 |
| mithro | remaxim: that is not quite true, there is a bunch of stuff that is LGPL | 18:35 |
| remaxim | but there is gpl as well... :D ... that's enough to ship it with the game and do whatever you want to with it as long as it stays part of some gpl game | 18:38 |
| mithro | remaxim: see, in 5 minutes I have found a bunch of problems - I'm not even a lawyer | 18:38 |
| remaxim | mithro, there is no problem I saw as a problem except that paragraph I m not interested in | 18:38 |
| mithro | remaxim: it doesn't fit the DFSG - http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines | 18:39 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/1MS-> (at www.debian.org) | 18:39 |
| remaxim | mithro, what part causes trouble? | 18:40 |
| mithro | see http://www.opensource.org/docs/definition.php for more reasons about it | 18:41 |
| tpb | Title: The Open Source Definition (Annotated) | Open Source Initiative (at www.opensource.org) | 18:41 |
| mithro | The rights attached to the program must not depend on the program's being part of a particular software distribution. If the program is extracted from that distribution and used or distributed within the terms of the program's license, all parties to whom the program is redistributed should have the same rights as those that are granted in conjunction with the original software distribution. | 18:41 |
| remaxim | mithro, media doesn't have to be open source ... I mean CC-BY-SA isn't open source as well | 18:41 |
| mithro | s/program/artwork/ | 18:42 |
| remaxim | I just repeat myself saying that media doesn't have to be open source | 18:44 |
| mithro | remaxim: because that statement is wrong, TP is an open source project - the media should be open source too | 18:45 |
| remaxim | mithro, media can't be open source | 18:45 |
| mithro | why not? | 18:45 |
| remaxim | media can be freely redistributable... and it is ... as long as you ship it with a open source game | 18:46 |
| remaxim | mithro, because media doesn't always have sources | 18:46 |
| mithro | remaxim: I'm afraid I'm not really in the mood to have this argument - late night last night | 18:47 |
| remaxim | ok... I can understand that! I just hope you can see my point ... I m seeing yours I think ;) | 18:48 |
| mithro | remaxim: I can see your point, however it is my opinion that media does have sources, and we really want to collect them too (see the intro movie for an example) | 18:49 |
| mithro | (oh and the calander) | 18:49 |
| remaxim | ... you ll just get all the sources under this license ;) | 18:50 |
| remaxim | sorry... forgot it... late night ... I ll just shut up | 18:51 |
| mithro | thanks, I'll try and get to the email about the music soon | 18:52 |
| remaxim | err... what email? | 18:54 |
| mithro | remaxim: my thoughts | 18:54 |
| remaxim | oh.. yeah... the feedback! | 18:56 |
| remaxim | great! thanks | 18:57 |
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| remaxim | bye | 20:19 |
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| mithro | hey llnz | 21:12 |
| llnz | hi mithro | 21:12 |
| mithro | it is way too hot here :( | 21:12 |
| mithro | they predicited 43C here today | 21:13 |
| llnz | ouch | 21:14 |
| DTRemenak | heh. 4C here :) | 22:45 |
| DTRemenak | at least the snow melted | 22:46 |
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