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| CIA-3 | llnz tpserver-cpp * red6b91f88821 /tpserver/ (avahi.cpp net.cpp): Use tp+http(s) instead of tphttp(s) | 00:26 |
|---|---|---|
| llnz | odd | 00:40 |
| CIA-3 | llnz tpserver-cpp * r921630c0795c /tpserver/metaserverconnection.cpp: Force "+" in metaserver update, by urlencoding. | 00:58 |
| llnz | bbl | 01:15 |
| mithro | nash: pong? | 01:43 |
| mithro | brb | 02:28 |
| mithro | nash / llnz : we probably need to have a meeting today somtime | 02:41 |
| mithro | o so quiet | 03:16 |
| *** JLP has quit IRC | 03:29 | |
| pschulz01 | mithro: pong | 03:31 |
| *** JLP has joined #tp | 03:32 | |
| mithro | pschulz01: I pinged you? | 03:37 |
| pschulz01 | mithro: No.. | 03:37 |
| pschulz01 | mithro: Just my response to you comment about the quietness. | 03:38 |
| pschulz01 | .-.--,.---`~.`=```@ | 03:38 |
| mithro | :) | 03:38 |
| mithro | be back in 45 minutes | 03:39 |
| mithro | off to watch a Doctor who and eat some food | 03:39 |
| pschulz01 | :-) | 03:39 |
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| *** JLP has joined #tp | 04:18 | |
| JLP | hello all | 04:18 |
| mithro | hey JLP | 04:26 |
| mithro | nash / llnz : ping? | 04:45 |
| nash | pong | 04:56 |
| nash | mithro: ? | 04:58 |
| mithro | hey nash | 04:58 |
| mithro | you pinged earlier? | 04:58 |
| nash | Only about the bug I reported | 04:59 |
| mithro | nash: which bug? | 05:11 |
| mithro | [11:24] <nash> where is mithro when you want to poke him... | 05:12 |
| * llnz is back | 05:13 | |
| llnz | hi mithro | 05:13 |
| mithro | hey | 05:13 |
| CIA-3 | jlp parsek-logging * r75a678f749e5 /src/loggerwidget.cpp: Dereference is needed | 06:48 |
| * llnz smiles | 07:06 | |
| jotham | hey i might have recruited another developer | 08:24 |
| jotham | by chance | 08:24 |
| jotham | some guy called spx2 | 08:24 |
| jotham | he was talking about writing a chat client, i suggested he should write something useful =) | 08:25 |
| jotham | and sent him to the website and this # | 08:25 |
| llnz | cool | 08:25 |
| jotham | brb bath | 08:25 |
| *** spx2 has joined #tp | 08:26 | |
| llnz | hi spx2 | 08:26 |
| spx2 | hi llnz | 08:27 |
| spx2 | im looking to participating to a opensource project | 08:27 |
| llnz | cool | 08:27 |
| spx2 | i heard thousandparsec needs help | 08:27 |
| spx2 | and i came here | 08:27 |
| spx2 | im into c++ also , but more of a perl coder(these days) | 08:28 |
| spx2 | ok...what can i do , where can i start ? | 08:28 |
| llnz | well, there a server, client side library and a (kde) client written in C++ | 08:29 |
| llnz | currently we don't have anything written in perl currently, but don't let that stop you | 08:29 |
| spx2 | so where is there need for help ? | 08:30 |
| spx2 | i mean what could i do | 08:31 |
| spx2 | ? | 08:31 |
| llnz | well..... | 08:31 |
| llnz | what are you interested in? | 08:32 |
| llnz | clients? servers? protocol? | 08:33 |
| llnz | support services (media server, metaserver, etc)? | 08:33 |
| pschulz01 | spx2: Is there anything that you would like to learn abour? | 08:33 |
| pschulz01 | about? | 08:33 |
| spx2 | pschulz01, yes i'd like to know more about multithreading aspecially | 08:35 |
| spx2 | llnz, i guess server...thats where all the multithreading gets going ... i hope :) | 08:36 |
| spx2 | llnz, can you tell me more about the support services,i dont know what those are | 08:37 |
| llnz | spx2: not really, currently both the python and c++ servers are single threaded | 08:37 |
| spx2 | llnz, so no parallel processing ? | 08:37 |
| llnz | clients, having to deal with protocol and user input could be multi threaded | 08:37 |
| llnz | not yet | 08:37 |
| spx2 | llnz, hmm...so...what could i learn from coding this project,what do you use ? | 08:38 |
| spx2 | llnz, libraries... | 08:38 |
| pschulz01 | llnz: The python client currently 'locks' when displaying the 'hint/message' dialog at the beginning of a turn. | 08:39 |
| pschulz01 | .. so that might also be a candidate. | 08:39 |
| llnz | pschulz01: i did say could, not that they are | 08:40 |
| pschulz01 | llnz: :-) - a minor frustration | 08:40 |
| llnz | spx2: just as a warning, multithreading it complex and difficult | 08:40 |
| llnz | event based programming (used in the servers and most gui toolkits) is a bit easier to use and program | 08:41 |
| spx2 | llnz, muyltithreading involves allot semaphores right ? | 08:41 |
| mithro | pschulz01: it does? | 08:42 |
| llnz | yes, avoiding race conditions, etc | 08:42 |
| spx2 | llnz so what libraries is it using your project ? | 08:43 |
| llnz | we have our own protocol libraries in C++, python, php and ruby (and you could add perl if you wanted) | 08:43 |
| pschulz01 | mithro Yes.. I can't do anything with any of the other windows until I have 'ok'ed this dialog. | 08:43 |
| mithro | pschulz01: oh, that is because the tips window is modal | 08:44 |
| llnz | there is a client being written for KDE and another for Enlightnment | 08:44 |
| llnz | as well as the python clients | 08:44 |
| llnz | if you are interested in AI programming then that is a very interesting area to get into | 08:44 |
| llnz | and you could do it in any language | 08:45 |
| mithro | in all applications, modal windows must be delt with before you can continue | 08:46 |
| mithro | nash: so were are we inregards to getting galaxie working with tpserver-py? | 08:48 |
| nash | mithro: Having problems getting and setting arguments for orders | 08:49 |
| mithro | oh? | 08:50 |
| nash | That was the bug report I mentioned earlier | 08:50 |
| * nash gets bug URL | 08:50 | |
| nash | http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1726275&group_id=132078&atid=723099 | 08:51 |
| tpb | Bug #1726275: tpserver-py: Doesn't send option arguments correctly | 08:51 |
| nash | There is also: | 08:51 |
| nash | http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1726265&group_id=132078&atid=723099 | 08:51 |
| tpb | Bug #1726265: tpserver-py: Doesn't send correct turn number with universe | 08:51 |
| nash | Which irritates me (not a big one however) | 08:51 |
| llnz | that second bug could be irrelevant with tp04 | 08:52 |
| nash | llnz: Probably... but tp04 isn't here yet.. especially with tpserver-py | 08:53 |
| spx2 | llnz, why in particular did you bring up AI programming ? | 08:53 |
| spx2 | llnz, how is it relevant ? | 08:53 |
| llnz | spx2: AI join a game the same way as clients do, they connect as normal clients | 08:54 |
| llnz | I also know the perl is particularly good at working with creating AI | 08:55 |
| llnz | we actually ran an AI competition earier this year | 08:55 |
| nash | Anyway - night all.. I'm off to bed... | 08:56 |
| nash | Talk to you all tomorrow... | 08:56 |
| pschulz01 | Night. | 08:56 |
| * llnz wanders off | 09:25 | |
| llnz | later all | 09:25 |
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| spx2 | llnz i was not aware of that | 09:39 |
| mithro | spx2: hi! | 09:59 |
| mithro | i'm the main developer of the primary python client | 10:00 |
| jotham | you know using psudo cooperative multitasking is usually superior to threads anyway | 10:10 |
| jotham | (just scrolled up) | 10:10 |
| jotham | threading is often the wrong answer to a design problem | 10:10 |
| mithro | jotham: cooperative multitasking is EVIL! | 10:12 |
| jotham | depends what you are doing | 10:13 |
| jotham | for an OS usually yeah | 10:13 |
| jotham | inside a single application, it's not so bad | 10:13 |
| jotham | often uses less resources and is less bug riddled than threads | 10:14 |
| jotham | (inside an application) | 10:14 |
| jotham | this is a nice article on the topic http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-pythrd.html | 10:14 |
| jotham | i've posted it here before i think | 10:14 |
| tpb | Title: Charming Python: Implementing "weightless threads" with Python generators (at www.ibm.com) | 10:15 |
| jotham | maybe spx2 should learn python =) | 10:15 |
| mithro | jotham: your validator done? | 10:16 |
| jotham | i made a test script and learned how to use PyXML's interfaces | 10:17 |
| jotham | but i need to learn more about DTD's | 10:17 |
| jotham | and think of the best way to use it in battleparser | 10:17 |
| jotham | like, should it throw an exception, or just make some noise in stdout | 10:17 |
| jotham | right now i have it throwing ValidationError | 10:17 |
| jotham | but yeah i need to read some more about DTDs so i know how to make battle.dtd changes in the future | 10:18 |
| CIA-3 | mithro tpserver-py * r332eb3a31e66 /tp/server/rules/ (3 files in 3 dirs): | 10:21 |
| CIA-3 | Fixed the BuildFleet order. | 10:21 |
| CIA-3 | The BuildFleet order was trying to look the designs up from the Design | 10:21 |
| CIA-3 | table. The normal MiniSec doesn't use designs at all, hence it was getting | 10:21 |
| CIA-3 | an empty list. | 10:21 |
| CIA-3 | I have created a new "minisecplus" ruleset which will incorperate these | 10:21 |
| CIA-3 | more advanced features. | 10:21 |
| CIA-3 | mithro tpserver-py * r92c1a356a057 /tp/server/bases/Order.py: | 10:21 |
| CIA-3 | Removed unquie constraint, allows orders to be inserted. | 10:21 |
| CIA-3 | This constraint should exist, but it turns out many DB's don't support the | 10:21 |
| CIA-3 | "UPDATE xxx ORDER BY xxx" which means the constraint is violated on the | 10:21 |
| CIA-3 | first row update. (As well SQLAlchemy doesn't allow you to add the ORDER BY | 10:21 |
| CIA-3 | clause easily anyway.) SQLite and MySQL both suffer from this problem. | 10:22 |
| CIA-3 | mithro libtpproto-py * rde41f35fba8c /tp/netlib/objects/OrderDesc.py: Allow -1 for no maximum. | 10:26 |
| mithro | jotham: okay | 10:26 |
| CIA-3 | mithro libtpproto-py * r1fb8a95b10fd /tp/netlib/discover/avahi_server.py: Remove excessively verbose output. | 10:26 |
| CIA-3 | mithro libtpproto-py * r1411301632bd /tp/netlib/discover/server.py: Created the base Server class. | 10:26 |
| CIA-3 | mithro libtpproto-py * r56e5544eaa8e /tp/netlib/discover/metaserver_server.py: First run at a metaserver registration class. | 10:26 |
| mithro | well I think I shall head to bed | 10:29 |
| spx2 | mithro, hi | 10:39 |
| mithro | spx2: so I guess the question is, why perl? | 10:39 |
| spx2 | mithro, im learning perl from passion and for the will to get a job because i have to eat | 10:40 |
| spx2 | mithro, i have to pay my dojo | 10:41 |
| spx2 | mithro, and i have to pay books i buy | 10:41 |
| mithro | spx2: interesting, I don't know any company still developing with perl | 10:41 |
| spx2 | mithro, well i do | 10:41 |
| mithro | spx2: any names I might know? | 10:42 |
| spx2 | mithro, yes there are names but they are not relevant | 10:42 |
| spx2 | mithro, the important thing is that they do exist :) | 10:42 |
| mithro | spx2: I guess Perl is kind of like Cobal, people are still using it and there doesn't exist many people who can code it | 10:43 |
| spx2 | maybe Cobol ? | 10:44 |
| mithro | see it's so obsecure I can't even spell it ;) | 10:45 |
| spx2 | mithro, lol . ok ,so what is thousandparsec more exactly ? do you have companies interested in it and do you have a firm/company thats developing it ? | 10:46 |
| mithro | spx2: no and no | 10:46 |
| mithro | Thousand Parsec is a totally community based effort | 10:47 |
| spx2 | mithro, i got hired into openser wich has its center here in romania but i was totally bored and not interested in the project they were doing that i was listening to music and reading totally different stuff at work so after a month they kicked me out of the company | 10:47 |
| mithro | however Google did fund 4 students to work on our project over summer | 10:47 |
| spx2 | lol | 10:48 |
| spx2 | oh very nice of google :) | 10:48 |
| spx2 | so what is thousand parsec actually ? | 10:48 |
| spx2 | what does it know to do ? | 10:48 |
| mithro | it's a framework for building a certain type of computer game | 10:49 |
| mithro | 4x strategy games | 10:50 |
| spx2 | very nice :) | 10:50 |
| spx2 | so does it have gfx and stuff,or are you focusing on the network communication thing ? | 10:50 |
| mithro | it's focused on building games which have real strategy | 10:51 |
| mithro | rather then games which look flashy and require fast clicking skills | 10:52 |
| mithro | do you play any computer games (rather then console games)? | 10:52 |
| spx2 | i did play starcraft and broodwar and i was obsessed about 6 months... | 10:54 |
| spx2 | then i got a gf | 10:54 |
| spx2 | then one night a friend challenged me so i got into training at broodwar very hard for the following month and i dumped my gf cause i didnt had time | 10:55 |
| spx2 | then it was time for me to grow up and i quit games alltogether | 10:55 |
| spx2 | but yes i do like them | 10:56 |
| mithro | I personally dislike Starcraft, it is a RTS and is really about how fast you can click the buttons | 10:58 |
| mithro | ever play something like Civilisation or Hero's of Might and Magic? | 10:59 |
| spx2 | mithro, unfortunately i disagree...there is a thing called APM , if you watch the ProGamers statistics you will see that there are peopl with APM(actions per minute) small that beat people with APM high,so i guess you are not totally correct.but i do agree that great part of gaming in SC is how fast you play. | 11:00 |
| spx2 | HOMM yes i did play | 11:00 |
| spx2 | i liked it allot | 11:00 |
| spx2 | but did not go into strategy issues etc... | 11:00 |
| spx2 | i was not very good at it altough i understood it | 11:00 |
| spx2 | i liked it much better than Civilisation(i never understood how to play this one,i didnt even took the time to check the tutorial,i found it to be too abstract and far from reality) | 11:01 |
| mithro | Thousand Parsec is similar to Civilisation and HOMM (probably closer to Civ) | 11:04 |
| *** Demitar has quit IRC | 11:05 | |
| mithro | includes things like the ability to design weapons and ships | 11:06 |
| spx2 | like in diablo ? | 11:06 |
| JLP | spx2: hi, nice to see new people here | 11:07 |
| * JLP goes reading the backlog | 11:07 | |
| mithro | spx2: not really | 11:07 |
| spx2 | JLP, :) thanks | 11:08 |
| spx2 | mithro, i guess i'd had to play civilisation but that would be too much waste of time...id like to just get developping,now im reading IPC in perl. .. | 11:08 |
| spx2 | mithro, so what OS are you developing this framework in ? is it portable ? | 11:09 |
| mithro | Linux, Windows and Mac | 11:09 |
| spx2 | huhu!! | 11:09 |
| spx2 | interesting | 11:09 |
| spx2 | mithro, ok i'm i think i'm in , that is if you agree also :) | 11:10 |
| mithro | spx2: well, feel free to work on stuff :) | 11:10 |
| mithro | take a look at the TODO list | 11:11 |
| mithro | https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=132078&atid=829724 | 11:11 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/Yz9> (at sourceforge.net) | 11:11 |
| JLP | spx2: i see you're also joining the fun, welcome | 11:18 |
| spx2 | JLP, thank you :) im not sure how able i am to join the fun yet... | 11:19 |
| spx2 | is it heavy this thousandparsec framework ? how big is it ? | 11:20 |
| spx2 | was thinking of giving a try at compiling it | 11:20 |
| * mithro heads to bed | 11:21 | |
| JLP | spx2: well you know c++ so there is already a lot of code you can help working on, and even if you are just learning perl you can contribute | 11:21 |
| mithro | gnight! | 11:21 |
| JLP | mithro: night | 11:21 |
| spx2 | mithro, nighty night :) | 11:21 |
| JLP | spx2: actually i'm also still learning c++ and qt/kde development and thousand parsec is my first bigger project i'm working with | 11:21 |
| spx2 | it would have been good if mithro would have hanged around so that i know how to set up thousandparsec | 11:22 |
| spx2 | JLP, can you guide me through setting it up ? | 11:23 |
| JLP | spx2: yeah i can also help | 11:23 |
| JLP | spx2: any specific part you are currently interested in? | 11:24 |
| spx2 | JLP, yes | 11:25 |
| spx2 | JLP, im on ubuntu | 11:25 |
| spx2 | JLP, i dont like that it dont have a svn :( | 11:25 |
| spx2 | JLP, i dont know this cogito thing | 11:26 |
| JLP | spx2: hehe, i know how you feel | 11:26 |
| JLP | spx2: when i came to TP we were still using Darcs, and I had to leran that first | 11:26 |
| JLP | spx2: a couple of days ago we switched to Git so I had another new thing to learn :) | 11:27 |
| spx2 | JLP, im really not sure if im going to learn this git/cogito thing... | 11:28 |
| spx2 | does it have GUI ? | 11:28 |
| JLP | spx2: actually just learned git/cogito yesterday, well the basics of it | 11:28 |
| spx2 | JLP i have eSvn here and i must say im impressed that this kind of simple-to-the-point software exists on linux :) | 11:29 |
| JLP | spx2: i'm not sure if it has gui, never searched for one | 11:29 |
| spx2 | JLP, but i dont know if git/cogito has GUI ... thats a no go for me...im not sure if i want to write commands like crazy to get things done... | 11:29 |
| JLP | spx2: it's not that bad, you don't need to use git so often, and it is mostly just a couple of comands, one for syncing, one for commiting and one for pushing your changes | 11:30 |
| spx2 | JLP, that sounds encouraging :) | 11:32 |
| JLP | spx2: are you currently following http://www.thousandparsec.net/tp/dev/rcs.php | 11:35 |
| tpb | Title: Thousand Parsec : Source Code (at www.thousandparsec.net) | 11:35 |
| spx2 | JLP, i thought first of start reading ...but uhm...i think ill leave it to tommorow...ive learned to be very pragmatic ,and if it dont have on-the-fly go into-the code style ... its gonna have to wait till tommorow :( | 11:38 |
| JLP | spx2: sure no problem, start just as you like it best | 11:39 |
| JLP | spx2: and if you have any question about TP just ask and i'll try to answer the best i can | 11:39 |
| JLP | spx2: oh and by the way, i forgot to tell you where i fit in here at TP | 11:40 |
| spx2 | JLP, tell me | 11:41 |
| JLP | spx2: i'm the guy who is developing (slowly) the KDE 4 client and i'm from Slovenia | 11:41 |
| spx2 | JLP, well im from Romania , and im not sure yet what im going to do | 11:41 |
| JLP | spx2: just take it slowly, first take a look around the project to see what it is all about and what parts are there and then you will see what interests you the most | 11:42 |
| spx2 | JLP, i would be interested if i could do perlish things | 11:44 |
| spx2 | JLP, that would really ring my bell | 11:44 |
| JLP | spx2: with perl it's all open for you, nothing written yet, so there are a lot of new things you could work on | 11:46 |
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| JLP | spx2: probably starting with a library to implement thousand parsec protocol | 11:47 |
| spx2 | JLP, a module you mean | 11:49 |
| JLP | spx2: yeah i guess, i ony really know c++ | 11:51 |
| spx2 | JLP, how much ram do i need to run the framework properly ? | 11:51 |
| JLP | spx2: depends on what part of the framework you would like to run, but i think 512 MiB is more then enough memory | 11:52 |
| spx2 | JLP, i got 192 | 11:53 |
| JLP | spx2: currently the only parts you can actualy run are c++ server (tpserver-cpp) and wxWidgets Python client (tpclient-pywx) | 11:54 |
| JLP | spx2: these are the most mature, and i would say that even 192 MiB is enough | 11:54 |
| spx2 | JLP, can i see/get the code without cogit/git ? | 11:55 |
| JLP | spx2: i think it is possible to also get it thru svn | 11:55 |
| JLP | spx2: if you look here - http://git.thousandparsec.net/gitweb/gitweb.cgi | 11:56 |
| tpb | Title: git.thousandparsec.net Git (at git.thousandparsec.net) | 11:56 |
| JLP | spx2: there are also cvs links listed for each project | 11:56 |
| spx2 | JLP, whats your name ther e? i want to look at code written by you | 11:58 |
| JLP | spx2: look for parsek - Jure Repinc | 11:59 |
| spx2 | jlp ive seen , very nice | 12:02 |
| spx2 | JLP, so how long it took you to understand whats going on until you start writing code ? | 12:02 |
| JLP | spx2: thank you, too bad it doesn't do much yet, it curently only gets and shows the messages and counts down the time remaining until end of turn :) | 12:03 |
| JLP | spx2: i can't remember exactly, when i came here first i was asking quastions about different parts of the framework | 12:04 |
| JLP | spx2: how it all fits together and connects | 12:04 |
| spx2 | JLP, so that much time it took,that you dont even remember... oh god... | 12:05 |
| JLP | spx2: then I decided to work on a client and since i am learning c++ my main interest became the C++ library for TP protocol (libtpproto-cpp) | 12:05 |
| JLP | spx2: ah no, it was just a couple of days, maybe a week or two, but it depends how many time you spend on this each day | 12:06 |
| JLP | spx2: there was also the problem that main developers were on the other side of the world so the time was short when we could get together so i could ask all the questions | 12:09 |
| JLP | spx2: also if there is anything that you think is missing that would help new developers start quicker just tell us | 12:14 |
| JLP | spx2: we just opened a Wiki page and I think this information could be added there | 12:14 |
| spx2 | oh nice :) | 12:50 |
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| JLP | good night all | 16:46 |
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| spx2 | pschulz01, hi | 20:21 |
| * nash waves | 20:24 | |
| spx2 | nash, hi | 20:24 |
| nash | how is life? | 20:24 |
| spx2 | nash i cant concentrate | 20:25 |
| nash | Have more coffee? | 20:25 |
| spx2 | nash, no use | 20:25 |
| spx2 | nash, its been this way for more than a year now | 20:26 |
| nash | have less coffee then | 20:26 |
| spx2 | nash, i dont do coffee :( | 20:26 |
| spx2 | nash, at most black/green tea | 20:26 |
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| xdotx | hey guys | 20:33 |
| nash | xdotx: How is life? | 20:38 |
| xdotx | nash: good. getting a full night's rest and having free time to code -> good | 20:39 |
| nash | I've been there.. sounds good | 20:39 |
| xdotx | anyone recommend a particular C++ IDE? | 20:41 |
| nash | gvim | 20:42 |
| mithro | hey xdotx and nash | 20:42 |
| nash | heyo mithro | 20:42 |
| mithro | xdotx: lots of people use Eclipse | 20:42 |
| xdotx | hey mithro | 20:42 |
| xdotx | mithro: for C++?? | 20:42 |
| mithro | nash: I think I fixed your bug, but your bug report was a little sparse | 20:42 |
| nash | So mithro: tpserver-py orders should or shoudl not work... | 20:42 |
| nash | Okay - I'll give it a run then | 20:42 |
| mithro | xdotx: yeah, it's got decent C++ support these days from what I understand | 20:43 |
| xdotx | mithro: sounds good. last i'd heard C++ was the one thing you didn't want to do in eclipse | 20:43 |
| mithro | xdotx: I don't do C++, so maybe I misheard | 20:43 |
| xdotx | mithro: i've not yet tried it, so it couldn't hurt | 20:44 |
| nash | xdotx: What do you want in your IDE? | 20:45 |
| xdotx | nash: oh, i hate to admit it, but most things in MSVS | 20:46 |
| nash | xdotx: Last time I had to use MSVC, I installed vim... | 20:46 |
| xdotx | nash: heheh | 20:47 |
| nash | What platform - linux? | 20:48 |
| xdotx | nash: i like their auto-complete tooltip, the gui is relatively intuitive and the debugger is great | 20:48 |
| xdotx | nash: yeah, ubuntu | 20:48 |
| xdotx | nash: but i'm forced on winxp for school, so i'm rather used to msvs | 20:49 |
| nash | Well gdb is a fairly good debugger - and the one feature gcc and gdb do well is debug when compiled with optimisation. | 20:49 |
| nash | The best two 'IDEs' I've found are still vim and emacs | 20:50 |
| nash | Both have limited integration with the debugger however :-/ | 20:50 |
| nash | Autocomplete in both (vim7 at least) is good - omni-completion works quite well in vim now | 20:50 |
| nash | Neither require you to lift your hand from the keyboard ;-) | 20:51 |
| xdotx | i've used gdb and insight. it was pretty good, but debugger integration is the one thing i've seen missing in all the IDEs i've tried | 20:52 |
| nash | Annoyingly gdb is good enough that integration has been lacking on unix | 20:53 |
| nash | ddd is a nice frontend for gdb, however it is motif (ie it is ugly) and is not an editot | 20:53 |
| xdotx | hmm | 20:54 |
| nash | xdotx: It does not visual display of data structures and references and the like | 20:56 |
| mithro | nash: still getting a segfault | 20:57 |
| nash | Shows source - similar to how it is displayed in msvs | 20:57 |
| xdotx | nash: yeah. the visual display really is helpful though :( | 20:57 |
| nash | mithro: Can you give me a backtrace? | 20:57 |
| nash | xdotx: Take a look at the screenshots: http://www.gnu.org/software/ddd/ | 20:58 |
| tpb | Title: DDD - Data Display Debugger - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation (FSF) (at www.gnu.org) | 20:58 |
| mithro | no, because it doesn't segfault under GDB | 20:58 |
| nash | mithro: heh | 20:58 |
| xdotx | i usually enjoy debugging, but without some of those nice debugging tools it can get to be quite a pain | 20:58 |
| mithro | nash: which tends to point to some type of timing error | 20:58 |
| nash | xdotx: ddd is pretty good, and you can use gdb directly so you get best of both worlds... | 20:59 |
| mithro | xdotx: if you are under KDE, KDevelop has gotten good reviews | 20:59 |
| nash | mithro: Can you run it under valgrind? | 21:00 |
| xdotx | mithro: yeah, i tried Kdevelop most recently (although I'm using gnome). it was pretty good, but the debugger started to get to me after a while | 21:00 |
| mithro | nash: possibly | 21:00 |
| nash | mithro: It's hard when I'm at work you see ;-) | 21:01 |
| mithro | oohhh.... it segfaulted under valgrind | 21:02 |
| mithro | nash: bah! they should pay you to work on Thousand Parsec | 21:02 |
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| nash | mithro: It smelt like memory corruption ;-) | 21:02 |
| mithro | hey brx | 21:02 |
| nash | mithro: I'd agree with that | 21:02 |
| mithro | you new here? | 21:02 |
| brx | mithro: cheers mate, you commented on my blog post ;) | 21:02 |
| mithro | brx: ahh! your the ScummVM scheme guy? | 21:03 |
| * brx nods | 21:03 | |
| mithro | nash: log a bug report? | 21:03 |
| mithro | nash: it detected leaked memory too | 21:03 |
| nash | mithro: I know of a possible leak too - either bug report or send to me or tp-devel, I care not which | 21:04 |
| mithro | i'm having a pretty bad internet day today :/ | 21:05 |
| nash | mithro: Do I need to update tpproto and tpserver-py? | 21:06 |
| mithro | nash: yes | 21:06 |
| * nash updates | 21:06 | |
| * nash finds it irritating to do the multistep update all the time | 21:08 | |
| mithro | nash: you have email | 21:08 |
| nash | mithro: Those order things are when I am getting info on the object | 21:08 |
| mithro | actually, you probably didn't need to update tpproto - the changes there are about getting tpserver-py on the metaserver | 21:08 |
| nash | mithro: Yeah... 3500 in my inbox alone ;-) | 21:08 |
| jotham | heh maybe spx2 is a bit young | 21:09 |
| nash | tranquillity:[~/work/thousandparsec/scratchpad]% ./setup.sh | 21:09 |
| nash | ls: scratchpad/git-helpers/*.sh: No such file or directory | 21:09 |
| nash | jotham: ? | 21:09 |
| jotham | reading the scrollback | 21:10 |
| jotham | i sent him here from ##C++-social | 21:10 |
| jotham | because he was going on about writing another chat client, i suggested doing something useful and sent him here | 21:10 |
| nash | mithro: Get that? | 21:10 |
| nash | bbs | 21:10 |
| mithro | nash: which? | 21:19 |
| mithro | jotham: yeah, he is a little | 21:19 |
| nash | scratchpad issue | 21:19 |
| mithro | brx: so, why/where did you learn scheme | 21:19 |
| mithro | nash: oh... | 21:23 |
| mithro | not really an error | 21:23 |
| brx | a few years ago I picked up common lisp and loved it. some time after, I decided to take a look at scheme because I was led to believe that it encouraged an aesthetically more pleasing coding style. | 21:23 |
| CIA-3 | mithro scratchpad * r99b2cf6aebbc /setup.sh: Ignore the removed git-helpers. | 21:24 |
| mithro | brx: did you look at how we use scheme? | 21:24 |
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| mithro | ~seen niphree | 21:24 |
| tpb | mithro: niphree was last seen in #tp 1 day, 12 hours, 42 minutes, and 52 seconds ago: <niphree> ok | 21:24 |
| Jessicatz | hello mithro, do you need any webdevs/deisgners? =) | 21:25 |
| Jessicatz | *designers | 21:25 |
| mithro | Jessicatz: sure! | 21:25 |
| brx | mithro: I am currently looking at the two pages you linked to | 21:25 |
| mithro | brx: we are using scheme as a glorified calculator ;) | 21:26 |
| mithro | Jessicatz: dmpayton has just started on a web client, I'm sure he would appreciate help with making it look snazzy | 21:26 |
| Jessicatz | I can do coding to. I'm fluent with c++ | 21:27 |
| mithro | Jessicatz: the website also needs a bit of a reorganisation so it's a bit more sane, specially since we will now have multiple working clients and servers | 21:27 |
| mithro | Jessicatz: our "main" server is written in C++ | 21:27 |
| mithro | and JLP is working on a KDE client in C++ | 21:28 |
| Jessicatz | is there a general todo-list online? | 21:28 |
| mithro | Jessicatz: so there is lots you could help out with! | 21:28 |
| mithro | Jessicatz: how did you find out about the project? | 21:29 |
| Jessicatz | its jothams and my little secret | 21:29 |
| Jessicatz | oh damn now I said it! | 21:29 |
| mithro | https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=132078&atid=829724 | 21:29 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/Yz9> (at sourceforge.net) | 21:29 |
| jotham | hah | 21:29 |
| jotham | i felt so bad about spx2 | 21:29 |
| brx | mithro: does tpcl really use ',' inside the parameter list? :) | 21:30 |
| mithro | Jessicatz: also, you can check out the SoC page http://www.thousandparsec.net/tp/google-summer-of-code-2007.php | 21:31 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/JuT> (at www.thousandparsec.net) | 21:31 |
| nash | mithro: This channel got wonderfully busy ;-) | 21:31 |
| * mithro is very lagged | 21:33 | |
| Jessicatz | ok, much to work on is provided | 21:34 |
| Jessicatz | man, I should stop subscribing to oss projects and do paid work instead... | 21:34 |
| mithro | brx: hum? | 21:35 |
| mithro | brx: my scheme knowledge is pretty limited :P | 21:35 |
| Jessicatz | do you use scheme in the project? | 21:35 |
| brx | mithro: ah, are you responsible for tcpl? | 21:36 |
| jotham | god all i've done is read and respond to emails today | 21:36 |
| mithro | Jessicatz: yes, we use a subset of scheme for our Design/Property/etc processing | 21:36 |
| mithro | jotham: i spent most of my weekend doing that | 21:36 |
| mithro | brx: kind of :) | 21:36 |
| dmpayton | hrm... crossover seemed promising but it looks like I may have to keep a partition for windows after all. =/ | 21:37 |
| * Jessicatz uses virtualbox | 21:37 | |
| jotham | it's deflating mithro | 21:37 |
| jotham | feels like i've done nothing and it's already 2pm | 21:38 |
| brx | mithro: I was only referring to (lambda (design, bits) ...) | 21:38 |
| mithro | jotham: yeah, I got nothing done over the weekend | 21:38 |
| mithro | brx: is that not correct? | 21:38 |
| mithro | :P | 21:38 |
| nash | mithro: Still haven't got your email | 21:42 |
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| brx | mithro: scheme is based on s-expressions, the parameters inside the paramater list are "whitespace separated", usually. see http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-7.html#%_sec_4.2.6 for why an expression such as the above would lead to an error in r5rs compliant schemes :) | 21:42 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/Z1a> (at www.schemers.org) | 21:42 |
| mithro | nash: hrm, it's left my inbox | 21:43 |
| mithro | brx: can you give me the URL where you saw that? | 21:43 |
| brx | http://www.thousandparsec.net/tp/dev/documents/ncl.php | 21:44 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/J7d> (at www.thousandparsec.net) | 21:44 |
| * brx fetches a yoghurt | 21:45 | |
| nash | mithro: Can you send it again | 21:47 |
| mithro | May 27 21:43:27 lester postfix/smtp[6375]: connect to dom-mx.nash.id.au[203.32.117.2]: No route to host (port 25) | 21:48 |
| mithro | May 27 21:43:27 lester postfix/smtp[6375]: 7BF35BAED: to=<[email protected]>, relay=none, delay=1549, delays=1542/0.03/6.4/0, dsn=4.4.1, status=deferred (connect to dom-mx.nash.id.au[203.32.117.2]: No route to host) | 21:48 |
| nash | weird | 21:49 |
| mithro | jotham: you have been on a recuriting drive for us? | 21:50 |
| jotham | haha | 21:50 |
| mithro | Jessicatz: what is virtualbox? | 21:50 |
| mithro | hey dmpayton | 21:50 |
| nash | mithro: hope the sponsers fees are worthwhile | 21:50 |
| nash | mithro: Hmm... my upstream mailserver seems to have died | 21:50 |
| nash | mithro: Can you send to [email protected] then | 21:50 |
| Jessicatz | mithro: virtual machine host | 21:51 |
| jotham | yesterday i saw spx2 was at a loose end and told him to consider contributing to the OSS community, this project came up - anyway he didn't turn out so well, so I felt a bit guilty. Anyway today Jessicatz was also at a loose end so i again pointed her at the TP website | 21:51 |
| mithro | Jessicatz: ahh, I use vmplayer | 21:51 |
| mithro | jotham: keep up the good work! | 21:51 |
| jotham | i originally told spx2 to write a quick log analyser for apache2 | 21:52 |
| jotham | but he wanted to write a chat client | 21:52 |
| brx | how is your soc coming along by the way? if I may ask :) | 21:52 |
| mithro | 16 gi1-0-0.syd-ult-bba1.ii.net (203.215.16.5) 219.345 ms 218.805 ms 218.512 ms | 21:53 |
| mithro | 17 ds-gw.ay.com.au (203.19.70.241) 229.074 ms 228.712 ms 281.492 ms | 21:53 |
| mithro | 18 * * * | 21:53 |
| nash | mithro: I know | 21:53 |
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| mithro | brx: i dunno, these students are really slack ;) | 21:55 |
| nash | mithro: I so agree... can't even keep an internet connection up... | 21:55 |
| jotham | i have to use 2 seperate RSA SecureID appliances (little counter items i got mailed to me from europe) | 21:55 |
| jotham | to log into this god damned vpn | 21:56 |
| brx | mithro: I don't know what to say, but that definitely put a smile on my face :) | 21:56 |
| brx | mithro: what use would you have for me? | 21:59 |
| xdotx | oh man.. did i just get burned? | 21:59 |
| xdotx | ...and take a few minutes to notice? :P | 21:59 |
| nash | brx: What sort of things do you want to do, and what sort of skills do you have, or want to learn? | 21:59 |
| nash | xdotx: :-) | 21:59 |
| mithro | brx: well, nobody picked up the comma problem until now :) | 21:59 |
| nash | xdotx: Indeed ;-) | 21:59 |
| mithro | so just general scheme experiance is useful :) | 22:00 |
| brx | nash: ah, I am one of the scummvm soc students, mithro more or less summoned me because I'm a little schemer. | 22:01 |
| nash | Ahh... | 22:01 |
| nash | So you are going to start implementing more of rulesets in scheme then... most of mtsec then ;-) | 22:01 |
| mithro | brx: maybe we can convince google to let you work on Thousand Parsec instead ;) | 22:02 |
| mithro | nash: you get it? | 22:03 |
| xdotx | instead?? | 22:03 |
| nash | mithro: LOL - works mail server is being rebooted | 22:03 |
| nash | Give me a minute or two | 22:03 |
| xdotx | er nvm :P | 22:03 |
| mithro | dmpayton: ping? | 22:04 |
| mithro | dmpayton: what your timezone? I guessed Pacific - my clock is saying it's 7:08pm | 22:04 |
| brx | mithro: I don't know about that :) but if I find some spare time and you can point me to something specific that needs doing then, I will see what I can do. my project over at scummvm is not so trivial and will require lots of exploration though, so I can't guarantee anything. what I will do however, is lurk here. | 22:05 |
| mithro | brx: well, even just having you lurk here so we can pester you with Scheme questions would be cool | 22:05 |
| brx | mithro: sure thing, anytime. | 22:06 |
| Jessicatz | nighty night | 22:08 |
| brx | night sweetheart | 22:08 |
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| mithro | jotham: i'm using the flyweight pattern in tpserver-py :) | 22:12 |
| pschulz01 | brx: You know scheme? | 22:13 |
| nash | mithro: *sigh* You;'ve been greylisted... | 22:13 |
| nash | /me and email aren't going so well today | 22:14 |
| brx | pschulz01: yes. | 22:15 |
| jotham | mithro: you are on the pygame list? | 22:15 |
| jotham | =o | 22:15 |
| jotham | my aim was to confuse those guys even more | 22:16 |
| mithro | jotham: yes, I ghost the pygame list | 22:17 |
| jotham | cool | 22:17 |
| pschulz01 | brx: :-) | 22:21 |
| pschulz01 | brx: I've just spent the last 20 years of my life at various stages trying to learn various versions of scheme/lisp/elisp. | 22:22 |
| pschulz01 | brx: I will have some questions for you at some stage.. :-) | 22:23 |
| pschulz01 | off to lunch. | 22:23 |
| brx | pschulz01: you are welcome, I am also a brave bearer of the emacs flame ;) | 22:24 |
| jotham | once upon a time i found emacs, i enjoyed it, i side-graded to xemacs, then i found myself playing netris inside of xemacs - i uninstalled xemacs/emacs and went to vim | 22:25 |
| jotham | but i don't do any lisp | 22:25 |
| nash | jotham: http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=172 | 22:31 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/Z1j> (at www.vim.org) | 22:31 |
| jotham | hah | 22:32 |
| jotham | :\ | 22:32 |
| brx | jotham: I used vim until I started getting into lisp. I struggled a while before finally giving in to all the peer pressure and use emacs for lisp development and soon after for everything. never looked back :) | 22:36 |
| jotham | i convinced a vim friend who started doing lisp to use emacs | 22:41 |
| jotham | people piss and moan a lot, but muscle mmeory and unconcious-compitent processes don't take very long to re-lear | 22:41 |
| jotham | +n | 22:41 |
| mithro | emacs has a vim mode :) | 22:42 |
| brx | yes, viper, and it is poisonous | 22:43 |
| brx | short of restarting emacs there is no way to permanently exit viper mode once toggled on | 22:44 |
| xdotx | heh.. viper.. poisonous | 22:44 |
| brx | considering that most emacs users do not restart their emacs session for months, this is extremely annoying :) | 22:45 |
| mithro | brx: why would you ever want to leave vim mode? :P | 22:45 |
| dmpayton | mithro: pong. Sorry I vanished. Yes, I'm Pacific, and yes it was 7:08pm | 22:46 |
| dmpayton | had to clean the snake tank and make dinner. | 22:46 |
| mithro | dmpayton: thats okay | 22:46 |
| mithro | dmpayton: just checking, you got the requirements email? | 22:47 |
| dmpayton | mithro: Yep. | 22:47 |
| mithro | dmpayton: okay cool | 22:47 |
| dmpayton | where are programs kept on linux? (ie. on windows it's c:/program files) | 22:50 |
| xdotx | heh | 22:50 |
| xdotx | i don't think there's an easy answer to that one :) | 22:51 |
| xdotx | dmpayton: why do you need to know? | 22:51 |
| nash | /usr/bin | 22:52 |
| nash | or /bin or /usr/sbin or /sbin | 22:52 |
| brx | dmpayton: the answer to that question is not that simple. you might want read http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html | 22:52 |
| tpb | Title: Filesystem Hierarchy Standard (at www.pathname.com) | 22:52 |
| xdotx | nash: well, i guess that's an easy answer :P | 22:52 |
| brx | tpb: you, sir, are a very weird bot | 22:52 |
| nash | anyway... lunch | 22:54 |
| dmpayton | xdotx: I wanted to connect to an internet radio station in xmms, but was only being given the option to open it in rhythm box | 22:58 |
| mithro | brx: when tpb sees a URL it'll echo the title of the page | 23:00 |
| mithro | it's useful for a number of reasons | 23:00 |
| brx | mithro: I figured that out by now, just the first time I saw such behaviour :) | 23:00 |
| jotham | dmpayton: generally programs are in /usr/share or /usr/share/local where as the actual commands that run them are stored in /usr/bin or /usr/share/bin | 23:01 |
| jotham | dmpayton: the general idea is that /usr is the equivilent to the 'installed user programs' and /home is the equivilent of documents and settings | 23:02 |
| dmpayton | jotham: gotcha. | 23:02 |
| dmpayton | Thanks everyone. :) | 23:02 |
| brx | user settings as opposed to system wide residing elsewhere | 23:02 |
| jotham | er sorry, /usr/local and /usr/share | 23:03 |
| xdotx | dmpayton: alternatively, you can sometimes sneak a peak at where the link points in your Applications menu (gnome) either manually, or using alacarte | 23:04 |
| xdotx | dmpayton: or use locate! | 23:04 |
| * xdotx loves locate | 23:04 | |
| jotham | yeah locate, and find are nice action | 23:05 |
| * brx tips his hat | 23:13 | |
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