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| bokey | am I in ? | 00:31 |
|---|---|---|
| bokey | yet ? | 00:31 |
| bokey | jotham, can you read my msg ? | 00:34 |
| bokey | mithro, got your mail thanks. :) | 00:34 |
| mithro | bokey: your in | 00:35 |
| bokey | mithro, cool. | 00:35 |
| bokey | mithro, i didn't know cgi existed for tp. this is awesome. | 00:35 |
| mithro | bokey: it didn't until a couple of hours ago | 00:36 |
| bokey | mithro, ah.. really ? | 00:36 |
| bokey | mithro, so when a user registers with username and password. how do they know that they have been registered ? | 00:53 |
| mithro | bokey: you get an okay or failure message | 00:53 |
| bokey | mithro, so anyone can play the game. no restrictions. | 00:54 |
| bokey | mithro, umm.. | 00:54 |
| mithro | not necessarily | 00:54 |
| mithro | a server may not accept registrations | 00:54 |
| mithro | in case you will get a failed perminately message (or the registration feature might not even exist) | 00:55 |
| bokey | so how will the user play the game ? | 00:55 |
| mithro | i'm not sure I understand? | 00:56 |
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| bokey | mithro, how does a user authenticate with the server ? | 00:56 |
| bokey | mithro, there has to be some form of authentication. no ? | 00:57 |
| mithro | a user sends a Login frame with his username and password | 00:58 |
| bokey | mithro, you said the server sends back OK or FAIL mesage. | 00:58 |
| bokey | mithro, yup. | 00:58 |
| mithro | bokey: it's really simple, C2S "Account Frame", S2C "Okay", C2S "Login Frame", S2C "Okay" | 00:59 |
| bokey | mithro, right. | 00:59 |
| mithro | if the server doesn't support registration the server will return a failure frame | 01:00 |
| bokey | mithro, but then a user has to create an account frame everytime ? | 01:00 |
| mithro | bokey: of course not | 01:00 |
| bokey | mithro, so it's only the first time user connects. | 01:00 |
| mithro | yes | 01:00 |
| bokey | mithro, :) | 01:00 |
| mithro | the second time he connects, C2S "Login Frame", S2C "Okay" | 01:00 |
| mithro | we arn't insane monkies or anything :) | 01:01 |
| bokey | mithro, sorry ? monkeys ? | 01:01 |
| mithro | bokey: everything should be fairly logical | 01:02 |
| mithro | 99% of things are C2S <Could you please do something>, S2C <That action succeeded | here is the information you wanted | That action failed> | 01:03 |
| bokey | mithro, ok | 01:03 |
| bokey | mithro, how much data traffic is anticipated to/from the network using this protocol ? | 01:06 |
| bokey | mithro, given that each user logs into the system every 6 hours or so. | 01:07 |
| bokey | mithro, that's not much traffic i guess. | 01:07 |
| mithro | not much | 01:12 |
| mithro | calculate on a universe size of approximately 1000 things | 01:12 |
| bokey | ok | 01:13 |
| bokey | mithro, is there some good uml modelling tool in your toolbox ? | 01:20 |
| bokey | mithro, i am using this dia which is OK but little bit buggy. | 01:21 |
| mithro | i don't use UML | 01:21 |
| bokey | mithro, hehe.. cool. | 01:21 |
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| bokey | mithro, everything i've read so far in the docs and the src code leads me to the assumption that i'd not be puttting in any of the tp packet flow control, congestion mechanism and stuffs like that. is it so ? | 02:40 |
| bokey | mithro, because the tp packet itself would somehow be encapsulated in a tcp packet. | 02:42 |
| bokey | mithro, am i heading the right way ? | 02:43 |
| bokey | JLP, hi. are you one of the devel of tp ? | 02:43 |
| nash | bokey: Yes the TP protocol is encapsulated in some other protocol - generally TCP but possibly HTTP, or some other protocol | 02:49 |
| bokey | nash, hi. | 02:49 |
| nash | heyo | 02:49 |
| bokey | nash, thanks for answering. :) | 02:49 |
| bokey | nash, you are lee right ? | 02:49 |
| bokey | Lee sorry | 02:49 |
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| nash | Nope | 02:50 |
| * nash is nash | 02:50 | |
| bokey | nash, sorry. :) | 02:50 |
| bokey | nash, one of the tp devel ? | 02:50 |
| * nash != llnz | 02:50 | |
| nash | Not really | 02:50 |
| bokey | nash, nice meeting you. :) | 02:50 |
| nash | I'm writing a client/AI for the comp, so I may or migrate to dev eventually | 02:50 |
| bokey | nash, i am responsible for developing tp protocol in Java. | 02:51 |
| nash | Ahh... That guy | 02:51 |
| nash | You are going to have fun. | 02:51 |
| bokey | nash, to be honest it's still a bit hairy but mithro goes "oh.. it's straight forward".. | 02:51 |
| nash | Had any grief with unsigned values yet? | 02:51 |
| bokey | nash, haven't reached that far. | 02:51 |
| bokey | nash, :( | 02:51 |
| bokey | nash, i am still designing requirements. hope to get it right. | 02:51 |
| nash | okay | 02:52 |
| bokey | nash, it's a school project. final year. | 02:52 |
| nash | cool | 02:52 |
| bokey | nash, what about u ? | 02:52 |
| bokey | s/u/you | 02:52 |
| nash | Software developer: www.fst.net | 02:52 |
| bokey | nash, nice. i needed a job. | 02:53 |
| bokey | nash, :) | 02:53 |
| nash | Where are you located? | 02:53 |
| bokey | nash, Adelaide, Australia | 02:53 |
| nash | We need an industrial training person... but we work 99% in pure C | 02:54 |
| nash | A bit of a commute to Sydney then... | 02:54 |
| bokey | geez. C. that's horrible. | 02:54 |
| nash | Why exactly is that? | 02:54 |
| bokey | nash, i retract my sentence. | 02:54 |
| bokey | nash, :) | 02:54 |
| bokey | nash, anyway someday i'll hopefully be able program in C. | 02:55 |
| bokey | nash, just one more question. so i'd create a tp packet first then how exactly would i encapsulate that in say tcp packet ? | 02:56 |
| nash | Have a look at our website, look at what FancyPants can do, and tell me how you could even come close to that with Java | 02:56 |
| nash | bokey: Have you ever done any network stuff before? | 02:56 |
| bokey | nash, just school stuff. | 02:57 |
| bokey | nash, creating a connection, connecting and sending/receiving data. | 02:57 |
| nash | From an apps point of view it's just a Stream - so create the packet, dump it to the stream | 02:58 |
| nash | don | 02:58 |
| bokey | nash, i don't get it. | 02:58 |
| bokey | nash, sorry. | 02:59 |
| nash | If it is easier, dump header, dump body.. fragmentation is the other clients problem | 02:59 |
| nash | Do you know the OSI 7 layer model for networks? | 02:59 |
| bokey | nash, that's what Lee's done in libtpproto-cpp. | 02:59 |
| bokey | nash, yes. | 02:59 |
| bokey | nash, he's got seperate part for header and body. | 02:59 |
| bokey | nash, my reference point is libtpproto-cpp. | 03:00 |
| bokey | nash, i'd basically be using his diagrams and build requirements of my work from there. | 03:00 |
| nash | Anyway you do something like Packet *p = buildpacket(userdata...); socket->Send(p); | 03:01 |
| bokey | nash, and buildPacket(...) would do what the version 0.3 specification says on packet structure. right ? | 03:02 |
| nash | Yeah. | 03:02 |
| bokey | nash, right. | 03:02 |
| bokey | nash, thanks. are you based in Sydney ? | 03:02 |
| nash | shi | 03:02 |
| nash | I mean yes | 03:02 |
| bokey | nash, how's the weather there now ? | 03:02 |
| nash | fine and sunny | 03:03 |
| bokey | nash, it's a bit sunny now here. | 03:03 |
| bokey | nash, umm.. | 03:03 |
| bokey | :) | 03:03 |
| nash | yeah? | 03:03 |
| bokey | nothing.. just talking to myself. | 03:04 |
| nash | okay | 03:04 |
| nash | Sorry - I'm at work, so I can;t respond all the time | 03:05 |
| bokey | nash, that's ok. thanks heaps for your help. | 03:05 |
| nash | That's cool | 03:05 |
| bokey | nash, i'll ask whoever is here. most of them would know tp protocol inside out. :) | 03:05 |
| nash | BTW: Don't necessarily base too much on the other libs implementation, read the spec and implement that, not what the other lib does. Independant implementations are much better for the long term | 03:06 |
| bokey | nash, i'll keep that at the back of my head | 03:07 |
| nash | mithro will probably hate me for that | 03:07 |
| nash | ;-) | 03:07 |
| bokey | hehe | 03:07 |
| nash | It's good to iron out the protocol however | 03:09 |
| nash | And don't forget TP04 ;-) | 03:19 |
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| * nash waves | 10:32 | |
| nash | quiet night | 11:13 |
| jotham | hey | 11:13 |
| jotham | yeah | 11:13 |
| nash | How is life? | 11:14 |
| jotham | ok went to the doc today | 11:14 |
| jotham | he said i was an asstard for not taking my athsma meds | 11:14 |
| nash | His verdict? | 11:15 |
| jotham | and that i was fine =) | 11:15 |
| nash | hmm... | 11:15 |
| jotham | just basically that because i wasn't getting much oxygen my body was having a cry | 11:15 |
| nash | Right - so not really fine - just you already had the medication... and cost yourself $70 for nothing | 11:15 |
| jotham | didn't have any actually | 11:16 |
| jotham | problem is i used to exercise a lot, then stopped and so no cardo = athsma comes on a lot stronger | 11:16 |
| nash | Ahh | 11:16 |
| jotham | and i didn't realise because i wasn't having 'attacks' just was gradually breathing less and less | 11:16 |
| jotham | so like a creeping death | 11:16 |
| jotham | hate being dependant on medication | 11:17 |
| nash | Good thing you went then | 11:17 |
| nash | We all are to some degree | 11:17 |
| nash | And it;s a lot better to have a safe medication, then no other alternative | 11:18 |
| jotham | yeah true | 11:18 |
| nash | So up to anything else then? | 11:28 |
| nash | Any new TP stuff? | 11:28 |
| jotham | yeah i've been working on it, almost have all the event stuff sorted | 11:32 |
| jotham | basically had to break everything and reorganise it | 11:32 |
| nash | Cool | 11:32 |
| nash | Lovely | 11:32 |
| nash | Did you do your own art btw? | 11:32 |
| jotham | uhm for this project i haven't needed to make any art, but i am a modest artist and have been considering doing my own graphics set for the battleviewer (Rather than using the graphics mithro gave me) but only after i've finished coding it | 11:33 |
| jotham | i think mithro is getting impatient =) | 11:33 |
| nash | He seems to be. Not sure why the battleviewer doesn't seem to critical path to me | 11:34 |
| jotham | maybe just the nature of a manager to ensure no one is slacking | 11:34 |
| jotham | reguardless of the task at hand | 11:34 |
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| nash | Speak over the devil | 11:35 |
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| jotham | peer slew the devil | 11:35 |
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| TBBle | mithro_: Ping | 11:35 |
| nash | Quick.. to the other channel about the TP competition prject before mithro sees. | 11:36 |
| mithro_ | TBBle: pong | 11:36 |
| *** mithro_ is now known as mithro | 11:36 | |
| TBBle | Work OK'd my packaging stuff. ^_^ | 11:36 |
| mithro | TBBle: yay! | 11:36 |
| * mithro goes to check the logs | 11:36 | |
| TBBle | So now I've gotta set up Darcs and whatnot. Should be a fun Sunday. ^_^ | 11:37 |
| *** mithro changes topic to "http://www.thousandparsec.net/~irc/logs | AI Programming Competition in progress - http://www.thousandparsec.net/tp/comp.php | metaserver - metaserver.thousandparsec.net | 2007-02-26, TP ranked 126th on SF" | 11:37 | |
| *** ChanServ changes topic to "AI Programming Competition in progress - http://www.thousandparsec.net/tp/comp.php | metaserver - metaserver.thousandparsec.net | 2007-02-26, TP ranked 126th on SF" | 11:37 | |
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| *** mithro changes topic to "http://www.thousandparsec.net/~irc/logs/ | AI Programming Competition in progress - http://www.thousandparsec.net/tp/comp.php | metaserver - metaserver.thousandparsec.net | 2007-02-26, TP ranked 126th on SF" | 11:38 | |
| nash | heyo mithro | 11:45 |
| mithro | so whats up? | 11:45 |
| mithro | got battles working? | 11:45 |
| nash | Object deletion | 11:45 |
| nash | Battles? | 11:45 |
| nash | Who cares about battles | 11:45 |
| mithro | s/battles/getting two AI's to battle | 11:46 |
| nash | Ahh... Getting them to argue heaps | 11:47 |
| nash | Need delete to work before they can respond appropriately | 11:47 |
| nash | Hard to work out what happened to the object however | 11:47 |
| * nash notes that it may in fact be impossible... | 11:47 | |
| mithro | well you can look at the messages? | 11:47 |
| nash | The AI can? | 11:47 |
| mithro | I forget the messages that tpserver-cpp returns | 11:48 |
| mithro | but there should be enough data in there to see what happened | 11:48 |
| nash | For a human... yes | 11:49 |
| mithro | well, the GRS should give the AI some data? | 11:51 |
| nash | A message concerning an object that no longer exists maybe.. can't see anything else? | 11:53 |
| mithro | nash: the GRS in a message should support finding out the battle | 11:54 |
| nash | okay | 11:54 |
| mithro | it probably doesn't because we havn't thought of AI when creating it | 11:54 |
| mithro | it should however | 11:55 |
| nash | right | 11:55 |
| nash | Tell you what.. .deleting an object makes me wish for garbage collection | 11:57 |
| mithro | gc? | 11:57 |
| nash | yeah | 11:58 |
| nash | A lot of frees | 11:59 |
| nash | 12 frees | 11:59 |
| mithro | is that a lot? | 11:59 |
| jotham | woo almost done | 12:00 |
| jotham | and time for bed | 12:00 |
| nash | In one function... lots | 12:00 |
| mithro | nash: why so many? | 12:02 |
| nash | Object structure itself, name (strduped), children list, possible orders list, current orders list, possible fleet ancilerary structure, list of ships (if fleet), optional planet structure, resources list (if planet) | 12:04 |
| nash | Plus the AI and GUI pointers reserved for the AI and GUI to use (which need to clean up if necessary) | 12:04 |
| * nash gives the system a workout | 12:06 | |
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| nash | heh - something a bit funny | 12:10 |
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| nash | Two stars are so close in distance the AI is sending ships alternatively between them first A, then B, as the distance difference is smaller then the different between 2 plants | 12:11 |
| nash | mithro: Are you sure you want me to make this thing better? | 12:12 |
| nash | I might give you another copy in a few days and let you play a game against it - see what you think | 12:13 |
| nash | I'm wondering fi I should cripple it in a number of ways to make it more playable | 12:13 |
| mithro | he he | 12:13 |
| nash | You've seen the screenshots - the number of ships it sends is insane | 12:13 |
| mithro | :) | 12:14 |
| nash | Turn 40-50 it is sending 300 odd messages to the server each turn | 12:14 |
| nash | Turn 53 just passed 400 | 12:15 |
| nash | It has sent 9372 at the end of turn 55 | 12:15 |
| mithro | wow | 12:15 |
| nash | Passed 10000 on turn 56 | 12:15 |
| nash | A human can't play that | 12:16 |
| nash | best strategy from here for it is to build battle ships and attack random worlds in large fleets | 12:16 |
| nash | Or even the other players home world (which I think is a win? | 12:16 |
| nash | Prob half the messages are status updates on objects to be fair | 12:17 |
| mithro | dunno, what if the player was more aggressive? | 12:18 |
| mithro | have to give it a try | 12:22 |
| nash | mithro: Aggressive is your only hope I think | 12:22 |
| nash | It is going to out grow you, humans won't have the patience to match. If I put in some intelligence to counter military buildups, I can't see how to beat it | 12:23 |
| jotham | have you read about the supreme commander AI? | 12:24 |
| jotham | or seen a movie/the game | 12:24 |
| jotham | they deal with huge unit numbers | 12:24 |
| nash | Yes, but the game interface is designed for it | 12:25 |
| jotham | yeah it's pretty impressive | 12:25 |
| nash | The game system for minisec encourages fast and wide growth | 12:25 |
| nash | Anyway, it's not the AI that has the problem | 12:25 |
| nash | It's a human playing the AI | 12:26 |
| mithro | anyway, it'll let us better see the mechanics of minisec | 12:26 |
| nash | mithro: I'll try and get you a version shorlty. | 12:26 |
| nash | Needs a few more fixes first :-/ | 12:27 |
| mithro | nash: you got a screenshot of two AI fighting yet? | 12:27 |
| nash | Not yet | 12:27 |
| nash | I'll do one tomorrow | 12:27 |
| nash | Seen it - it's impressive | 12:27 |
| nash | especially if they start on opposite sides of the map ;-) | 12:27 |
| nash | Anyway - about to head to bed. | 12:28 |
| nash | Talk to you tomorrow | 12:28 |
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| * nash wavse | 22:41 | |
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