Saturday, 2007-03-03

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nashHmm... something weird going on here...00:01
nashAhh... ecore_list_goto_first != ecore_list_first00:08
nashNot sure if it is a good plan - when I get a fail frame I currently exit... ;-)00:12
nashThere is no way of asking "is this object dead?" right?  I can only request an update and look for the failure00:17
nashllnz: ?00:18
tpbIt has been said that llnz: is that the teaching/assistance stuff at uni you where talking about, nash00:18
llnzyeah00:19
nashokay - I hate having to use an "error" as a yes/no operation00:20
llnztp04 will address that00:21
nashtp04 is a while away however right?00:22
nashAnd there is a lot of stuff in tp04 - includin gchange of specification00:22
llnzmaybe00:23
llnzyeah00:23
llnzbtw: only error code 0, and maybe 1 are fatal00:23
llnzif the server doesn't disconnect, it's not really fatal....00:24
nashheh00:24
nashYeah - I still like to differentiate between "i screwed up" and "game state has changed, and I haven't told you"00:24
nashHmmm.. 50 turns and I've colonised00:26
nashthe entire minisec world00:26
llnzreally?00:27
llnzthought it was small, but not that small00:29
nashthere are a couple of planets left, but there is a col ship on the way everywhere...00:30
nashHmm...00:31
nashActually there is a few worlds which aren't colonised, but the col order seems to have failed00:31
nashIf an order fails, do you get a message about it?00:31
llnzshould do00:32
* nash looks for i00:34
nasht00:34
nashllnz: Turn 65 - every single planet colonised00:44
llnzactually, after reading the ai comp rules, that seems fine00:53
nashhmm?00:54
llnz"The Universe will be (at it's widest point) 20 turns by battleship across"00:55
nashokay00:57
llnzwhat happens if there is two of your ai, or four?00:57
llnz(you don't have to say if you don't want)00:58
nashIt's messy ;-000:59
llnzhehe00:59
nashIt currently doesn't go aggressive enough to start taking out planet00:59
nashSo basically things only happen when a frigate beats a planet01:00
nashOtherwise it just sits01:00
llnzhehe01:00
nashThere are a few issues I need to deal with.  Basically I'm quite happy for it to be a stupid strategy, mainly because I don't see much more point in minisec01:02
nashI just want to make sure it is robust - which is the current isse01:02
llnzfair enough, but it wouldn't hurt to have the ai master minisec before moving onto something more complicated (much more complicated)01:13
nashpriorities... I'd rather have a robust basic system then a fragile complex one01:14
llnzyes, fair enough01:14
nashAnd since I want a human client too - the AI is second from that respect01:16
llnzah, cool01:17
* nash starts generalising sequence handling 01:18
nashI should have done ages ago...01:26
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* llnz works on mtsec02:08
CIA-20Lee Begg <[email protected]> * tpserver-cpp/ (39 files in 2 dirs):03:24
CIA-20MTSec: players have usable components, planets have minable resources:03:24
CIA-20 Player now have the first compMax components available to them. Will need to fix the code03:24
CIA-20 a bit better.03:24
CIA-20 Also Planets have the various resource types randomly available. Needs refactoring and maybe adjusting.03:24
llnzbbl03:43
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mithrohowdy people04:38
mithrohow is everything today?04:38
mithroo so quiet!05:27
CIA-20[email protected] * libtpclient-py-dev/tp/client/ (9 files): Async network frame processing.05:55
* mithro ponders what nash and llnz are up to05:55
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CIA-20[email protected] * libtpclient-py/tp/client/ (10 files): Backport: Async frame support.06:32
CIA-20[email protected] * tpclient-pywx/ (9 files in 2 dirs): Backport: Ask to update at end of turn.06:33
llnzhehe06:52
llnzi was out, back now06:52
mithrollnz: i need some testing help if you have time06:56
llnzsure06:56
mithrocan you checkout the stable version (of everything) and give it a wirl?06:56
llnzok, pulling now06:57
nashheyo06:58
* nash is back06:58
nashtoo06:58
mithrohey nash, hows your weekend?06:58
nashokay06:58
* mithro is cooking food06:59
nashdamn hot here... looking for a enw place to live... so annoying :-/06:59
nashyourself?06:59
mithroonly got up at 3pm07:00
mithrocaught up on my email and rss feeds07:00
mithrocooking food now07:00
nashSounds like a nice bender last night07:00
llnzClientConnection instance has no attribute 's'07:00
mithrohrm... when/where does this happen?07:00
mithroand it is an error, or just something printed out?07:01
llnzwhen sitting on the connect/choose server screen07:01
llnzit's printed out every second or so07:01
mithrohrm...07:03
mithroand you have the latest version of tpclient-pywx, libtpclient-py and libtpproto-py?07:03
llnzyes07:04
mithroyou sure? :)07:06
llnzwell, i'll check again once eot has happened, want to see new dialog07:07
llnzyes, was right up to date with all three07:09
mithrodid you see the new dialog?07:15
llnzyeah07:21
mithrookay07:38
mithrosorry went to dinner07:55
mithrobb in 1007:55
mithrookay back now08:02
mithrollnz: forgot to push this08:02
CIA-20[email protected] * libtpproto-py/tp/netlib/common.py : Pump does nothing when not connected.08:03
llnzhehe, eot count down stuck on red08:08
mithro?08:08
llnzbut warning messages gone08:09
llnzhold on a second and i will explain08:09
llnzwhen i clicked the ok button on the update dialog, the countdown was red08:11
llnzand it stayed red08:11
mithroopps08:11
mithroi know what caused that08:11
mithrollnz: libtpproto-cpp supports 0.3 right?08:19
mithrollnz: did that update fixed the printout?08:31
llnzyes08:39
llnzand yes08:39
mithrollnz: okay cool, have you done a release of libtpproto-py 0.2?08:42
mithros/py/cpp/08:42
mithrollnz: try the patch in tpclient-pywx to fix the red message problem08:43
mithrothe posthook failed because I had quotes in the patch title08:44
llnzok08:56
llnznope, haven't done libtpproto-cpp 0.2.0 yet08:57
llnzstill working out things, but it does work08:59
llnzthinking of changing the internal architure again09:00
mithrollnz: how can I test this modified posthook?09:04
llnzby running darcs apply "--post-hook=/path/to/posthook param1"09:06
mithroparam1?09:07
mithrohow do I set a default posthook to be run?09:08
mithrojust created a testing repository09:08
llnzset "post-hook /path/to/posthook param1" in _darcs/prefs/defaults09:09
mithrohrm, any idea why the posthook is running on the darcs-test repository?09:14
llnz?09:18
mithrollnz: ahh it appears to be working09:19
mithrollnz: well i fixed the posthook to use hash's now09:20
llnzcool09:20
mithrothe patch was pretty easy09:20
mithronow I just need to get the last hash for each repository09:20
llnzshouldn't be too hard09:22
mithroyeah just doing a quick sh oneliner09:24
CIA-20[email protected] * scratchpad/darcs-help/pushchanges.sh : Don't assume "-a" option when pushing.09:27
mithroyay, posthook didn't died when I pushed with ""09:28
llnzcool09:28
CIA-20[email protected] * scratchpad/darcs-help/pushchanges.sh : Small name fix.09:30
mithroand it didn't go spaz with the same name09:31
mithroyay!09:31
CIA-20[email protected] * scratchpad/darcs-help/ (darcs-posthook.pl darcs-posthook.pl): Added the posthook script to scratchpad so it doesn't get lost.09:33
mithrollnz: the hash method should be much more reliable09:34
* nash is surprised darcs hooks don't have to be written in haskell09:34
llnzcool09:34
llnznash: nope, mostly written in sh, perl or python09:35
nash:-)09:35
mithroi think nash was being facicous09:36
mithro(sp?)09:36
nashmithro: Maybe... ;-)09:36
nashmithro: Some of the darcs doco is quite pretentious - a lot of "written in haskell so it will work much better then any other revision control"09:38
mithroacademics seem to be that way :P09:39
nash:-)09:39
* nash hides his resume09:39
mithronash: you know haskell?09:40
nasha) Yes [Everyone should no a functional language] b) Worked as a Ass Lecturer for a while09:41
nashAs for functional languages, haskell is quite good - you can actually use it for real problems ;-)09:41
llnzhehe09:42
* mithro notices that llnz is technically an Academic too?09:44
llnzhehe, nearly09:44
mithrollnz: did you end up getting accepted for that position?09:44
llnzstill waiting to here09:44
llnzhear09:44
nashllnz: May it go well ;-)09:45
mithrollnz: :/09:45
* mithro is still a poor student :P09:45
nashmithro: As opposed to a poor academic09:46
mithroas in one who is told what to learn by academics :)09:47
mithroi'm not bitter ;)09:47
bobbensi've been trying out this minisec game, i've played some games like this when I was a wee lad, but I don't really get how the turn system works09:53
mithrobobbens: is there something in particular you don't get?09:54
bobbensbasically how the turns work09:54
bobbenswhen does a turn end?09:54
nashmithro: I'm guessing the fact you need manually download the new turn in the python client09:54
mithroa turn ends when a timer runs out09:54
bobbensand how long is this timer09:55
bobbensi've somehow had one turn pass09:55
bobbensand I think that was when I killed the client and restarted it09:55
bobbenswith the python widgets client v2.109:55
mithrobobbens: there should be a little EOT counter up in the corner somewhere09:55
mithroit starts flashing red when a end of turn is close09:55
bobbenswhat version of a client should I be using09:56
bobbensthe one I have doesn't seem to have that09:56
bobbensand it doesn't even have a close button :)09:56
bobbensi have to send it SIGTERM09:56
mithrobobbens: what operating system?09:57
mithroThis download? -> http://www.thousandparsec.net/tp/downloads/tpclient-pywx/tpclient-pywx-0.2.1-inplace.tar.bz209:58
tpb<http://ln-s.net/JXe> (at www.thousandparsec.net)09:58
bobbenshum09:58
bobbensit seems to not update turns09:58
bobbensunless you restart the client09:58
bobbensnow i've restarted it09:58
bobbensandi 've built all my fleets and such09:58
nashbobbens: "Click Download Universe"09:59
bobbensah10:00
bobbensnow i see10:00
bobbensthe menu bar and all that is hidden10:00
bobbensopens up behind the rest10:00
bobbensnow I see the EOT10:00
mithrobobbens: which window manager?10:01
bobbensfluxbox10:01
mithrobobbens: the release I'm about to do will ask you to update when an EOT occurs10:01
bobbenswouldn't it be better to update it passively?10:04
mithrobobbens: you can't really do certain things in the middle of a EOT update (IE change change orders or the message board)10:05
mithrobut if somebody wants to add support, go right ahead :)10:06
mithronash: there was something you where complaining about the other day - i've forgotten what it was10:12
nashWell that was one thing...10:13
nashnot being able to detect deleted objects...10:13
mithronash: no10:13
mithroahh i remeber now10:13
nashHmm?10:13
mithroability to create a new game on a server from the client10:13
nashAhh.. yes10:13
nashTo be able to set the paramaters for a game for a number of clients and start the thing10:14
mithronash: that kind of breaks down for tpserver-cpp where you can only have 1 game per server10:14
nashNot at all - just means frst one to connect sets the rules.10:14
mithrollnz: so - what do you think?10:14
llnzrather not at this point, though could revisit it later10:15
CIA-20[email protected] * tpclient-pywx-dev/windows/ (53 files in 2 dirs):10:15
CIA-20Split the Information window into a Picture and Information window.:10:15
CIA-20 Works better with the AUI interface.10:15
nashNeeds to be done I believe - however I think it requires protocol support.10:15
nashMaybe TP05 window?10:16
llnzmaybe, put it down to be considered at that time10:16
nashMaybe TP06 then10:17
nashTP04 is already to big to consider it10:17
* llnz ponders10:25
mithronash: TP04 is big? Most of the additions are very small changes10:25
mithroapart from Objects and Research10:26
nashmithro: Well for starters... yes10:26
nashAlso you want to change to the XML defiition (a huge change)10:26
nashFilters and the various types of optional and non-optional one10:26
mithronash: why is that a huge change? the XML definition doesn't have to be used10:27
mithroit's just a nice way to generate documentation and for dynamic languages to automagically import the packet types10:27
CIA-20[email protected] * tpclient-pywx-dev/windows/xrc/ (panelPicture.xrc tp.pjd 1 tp.pjd 1 tp.pjd 1 winAccount.py): Small fixes to the XRC.10:28
nashyour "true protocol" moves.  I understand the purpose, and I agree10:28
mithrobobbens: it working okay now?10:28
nashPersonally I think that change in itself is enough for a protocol change10:28
mithroI doubt the libtpproto-cpp will use the XML definition10:28
mithroor the C one :)10:29
llnzit won't, and neither will tpserver-cpp10:29
nashProbably not.. .but it should be able to validate against it in some way10:29
nashIn any case writing the definition in XML is a non-trivial task10:29
mithronash: it's already being done10:29
llnzhttp://www.thousandparsec.net/tp/dev/documents/protocolxml.php10:30
tpb<http://ln-s.net/JXj> (at www.thousandparsec.net)10:30
llnzthe html doc generated from the current xml10:30
mithrohttp://darcs.thousandparsec.net/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi?r=documents;a=tree;f=/protocol10:30
tpb<http://ln-s.net/JXk> (at darcs.thousandparsec.net)10:30
nashAnyway.. your own list of things has meta protocol, filters, differences, dynamic objects. research, EndOfTurn Frame tyoes10:30
nashversions10:30
nashThat's not incremental10:30
mithrometa protocol is already defined and being used :)10:30
mithronash: research and EndOfTurn frames are definately "incremental" - they only add things to the protocol10:31
mithromaybe we have different ideas of incremental?10:31
nashObviously10:31
nashIn a commercial product there is enough to get at least a minor change, and even push for the major version change.10:32
mithroincremental == adding things to the protocol (IE New frame types) in a backward compatible way10:32
* nash invites mithro to look up "increment" in a dictionary sometimes10:33
nashincremental implies small changes10:34
nashBackwards compatible is something entirely different10:34
nashAnyway my point is TP03 to TP04 is a fairly big step10:34
mithro http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/%20incremental ?10:34
tpb<http://ln-s.net/JXm> (at dictionary.reference.com)10:34
nashSo I think it would be silly to add more to it.10:35
nashAdding more to TP05 or TP06 woudl be better10:35
mithroyes I guess so10:36
* llnz wanders off10:38
llnzlater all10:38
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mithroit won't take long for libtpproto-py to support 0.4 after the draft is out - maybe a couple of weeks10:39
nashSo it's even better to get the draft out early - relase early - release often as they sya10:40
nashAnyway - I need to go.10:41
nashI shall be back later10:41
* mithro ponders getting a video10:50
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* nash is back11:20
mithrowb11:21
JLPahoy all11:24
nashheyo11:25
* nash goes back to improving tpe...11:25
mithronash: cool11:27
mithrohey JLP11:27
mithrohow is everything?11:27
nashIn the process of getting rid of all the duplicated sequence doe11:27
nashs/doe/code/11:28
mithrookay11:28
mithroyou got colored ships and planets yet? :P11:29
nashNot yet.11:29
nashThat is 3rd on my list11:30
nashSequence is 1st...11:30
nashWorking out why my AI doesn't always colonise the closest planet is second11:30
* nash guesses something to do with hypotl11:30
nashmithro: How do you calc distance?11:35
mithropythagorus?11:35
nashHow do you deal with overflow?11:35
mithrooverflow?11:35
* nash notes people generally avoid pythags directly on computers due to overflow...11:36
mithroyou mean - how do I deal with needing a int128 ?11:36
nashYeah11:36
mithropython has L type which is arbitary big :)11:36
mithrobah I can't spell tonight11:36
nashRight11:37
nashokay...11:37
mithrootherwise I'm sure there are plenty of other ways11:38
nashBTW: man hypot - useful C function11:38
mithrodoes that handle your overflow problem?11:38
nashYep11:39
nashA lot of hardware has native support for it - since it's such a common problem11:39
mithroyeah, i thought so11:39
nashheh... I just discovered that I'm not actually handling the list of resource Ids that I request...11:41
nashHow did the merge from dev to mainline go?11:45
mithronash: which merge? :P11:46
nashThe backport?11:46
mithrothe EOT pop-up window?11:46
nashWas that it?11:46
nashI thought there was a few more commits11:46
mithrothats what I merged back into stable from -dev11:46
mithrothere have been quite a few other commits on the -dev branch11:47
nashAhh... not a terrible bug prone operation then ;-)11:47
mithronash: not for that part11:47
mithrotrying to backport any starmap or updatescreen code would be a disaster :)11:48
nashheh11:48
mithroi'm planning to do a release of the stable branch tommorrow11:50
nashIs it quicker for turn downloads?11:50
mithronash: yes, but not as much quicker as I was claiming before11:52
nashokay11:52
mithrowas using a universe quite a bit smaller then you where testing with11:52
nashheh ;-)11:52
mithrowhen the cache works however it's quite fast11:52
nashcache?11:52
mithrotpclient-pywx has a ondisk cache11:53
mithroso it only downloads stuff which has changed11:53
nashAhh...11:53
mithrowhich means most turns it's only like 5-30 objects11:53
mithroeven persists accross restarts11:53
* nash is quite happy to download then when I restart 11:53
nashI already only update what has changed11:54
mithronash: http://mithro.dyndns.org/temp/Screenshot-3.png screenshot of new starmap in "zoomed in" mode11:54
mithrohttp://mithro.dyndns.org/temp/Screenshot-4.png zoomed out mode11:55
nashWhat are the rings?11:55
* nash wonders... do planets actually move?11:55
mithronash: not at the moment11:56
nashgood.. that would be a nightmare11:56
nashStill what are the rings?11:57
mithrothe rings are the "orbit" of the planets11:58
mithronothing all that useful - just suppose to look pretty11:59
nashRight11:59
nashCool12:00
nashWell it looks cooler12:00
mithro:)12:00
nashmithro: BTW: Don't forget - even if it slower... it's more portable ;-)12:00
mithronash: ?12:01
tpbSomebody said nash: is now, mithro12:01
mithroopps, still havn't fixed tpb12:01
nashthe python client12:01
mithronash: well, technically it's not as portable as you would hope - it only works on Mac, Unix and Windows12:01
mithroit's nice that it looks like a native application under each too12:02
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mithronash: ?12:15
tpbnash: is now, mithro12:15
mithroarg :/12:15
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nash is great12:20
nash?12:20
nashnash: ?12:20
tpbhmm... nash: is now, nash12:20
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mithronash: ?12:22
tpbnash: is now, mithro12:22
mithroarg!?12:22
nashThat seems to be the problem ;-)12:22
mithroI can't figure out where this "feature" is coming from12:22
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mithronash: ?12:25
tpbI guess nash: is now, mithro12:25
* mithro beats tpb with a big stick12:25
nashtpb: no nash is god12:25
tpbI hear ya!12:25
nashnash: ?12:27
tpbhmm... nash: is now, nash12:27
nashbah12:27
nashCool... this is interesting... distance to Alpha Centauri Prime.. 0 units...12:28
mithro:P12:29
nashOh... and negative distances too...12:29
nashThis is well and truely farked12:29
* nash didn't think it could be that broken12:29
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mithrohe he sounds bad12:30
nashThe entire code is:12:32
nashx = obj1->pos.x - obj2->pos.x;12:32
nashy = obj1->pos.y - obj2->pos.y;12:32
nashz = obj1->pos.z - obj2->pos.z;12:32
nashreturn (uint64_t)hypotl(x,hypotl(y,z));12:32
* nash tries llrintl12:32
mithronash: hypotl(y,z) ?12:32
nashYeah?12:33
tpbSomebody said Yeah is at work atm, nash12:33
nashD'oh -need c99 for llrintl :-(12:33
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mithronash: ?12:37
mithrowoot!12:37
nashheh12:38
nashyeah?12:38
nashpants?12:38
nashThis is great... I'm getting negative distances!12:44
nashNo wonder the AI is having fun when it sends the ship to the smallest distance...12:44
mithrohow are you getting negative distances in an unsigned number!?12:45
nashmithro: MEans sign extension is going on somewhere..12:45
* nash notes this is really farked up12:45
nashThis is a short function to cause a lot of grief :-/12:47
nashFreaking sign extension was screwing it up12:50
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nashThis is scary12:53
mithro~freshmeat thousandparsec12:54
nashI have the game set up with up to 8 planets in a system12:54
nashThe AI just colonised all 8 in 1 turn12:54
mithrohow?12:56
nashFrom the two nearest systems which had 6 and 4 planets already colonised...12:56
mithrois it a good thing or bad thing?12:57
nashIt's good in the sense it is working12:57
nashIt's bad in the sense of - I'd hate to play this bastard12:58
mithrohe he12:58
nashI need to start testing this on public servers I think ;-)12:58
mithro:)12:58
nash2 planets to colonise...13:00
nash60 turns13:01
nashExactly13:01
mithrohttp://www.thousandparsec.net/~irc/%23tp-new.html13:02
tpb<http://ln-s.net/JXr> (at www.thousandparsec.net)13:02
nashNot sure exactly how many planets... but the rules are 50-100 systems with 1-10 planets each13:02
mithrofor some reason your not on there...13:02
* mithro ponders13:02
nashI'm on freenode?13:03
mithroopps I see the problem13:03
nashAlso... Latest Topics... 71 days ago at 01:56 by mithro13:04
mithroyes13:04
nashSo the AI - unoptimised - just settled 250 odd planets in 10 minutes13:05
nashDoes anyone else have an AI of any value yet?13:06
nashANyway - time for bed13:07
nashtalk to you later13:07
mithrosee ya13:09
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mithroJLP: http://www.thousandparsec.net/~irc/stats/13:44
tpbTitle: Index of /~irc/stats (at www.thousandparsec.net)13:44
mithrohttp://www.thousandparsec.net/~irc/logs/14:10
tpbTitle: IRC logs (at www.thousandparsec.net)14:10
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JLPahoy everyone20:47
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llnzhu JLP21:12
JLPllnz: looks like spam has started to get into forums21:12
llnzyeah21:13
JLPthe last two registered users appear to be spamers21:13
* JLP goes watch the lunar eclipse21:18
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llnzbbl (maybe)21:48
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