| *** tpb has joined #tp | 00:00 | |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o tpb | 00:00 | |
| tpb | aloril has joined on worldforge | 01:55 |
|---|---|---|
| *** zipola has joined #tp | 04:32 | |
| *** zipola has quit IRC | 05:33 | |
| *** tpb has joined #tp | 06:00 | |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o tpb | 06:00 | |
| *** nash has quit IRC | 06:43 | |
| *** mithro has joined #tp | 07:45 | |
| mithro | howdy people | 07:52 |
| mithro | TBBle: ping? | 07:52 |
| JLP | mithro: ahoy | 07:53 |
| jotham | hey mithro | 07:55 |
| mithro | sup? | 07:56 |
| JLP | mithro: you also plan to release updated client this week? | 08:19 |
| TBBle | pong | 09:21 |
| *** llnz has joined #tp | 09:26 | |
| * llnz ponders | 09:50 | |
| llnz | hehe: 30 players and 106 object on demo1, and i'm just about to reset it to run 0.4.1 | 10:27 |
| jotham | where do the players come from | 10:28 |
| jotham | random people off the internet? | 10:28 |
| jotham | or mostly this team? | 10:28 |
| llnz | demo1 generally has people who have downloaded the client and want to see what it is about | 10:29 |
| jotham | cool | 10:29 |
| llnz | demo1 is the default server, i believe | 10:29 |
| llnz | cool, demo1 has only mapped 9MB, and has 4MB resident (6MB shared) | 10:30 |
| llnz | freshly started, 7.4MB mapped, 4MB Res, 6MB shared | 10:36 |
| jotham | is it still popular to program with column limit of 80? | 10:42 |
| llnz | maybe | 10:47 |
| llnz | i don't though | 10:47 |
| * llnz wraps at about col 106 | 10:47 | |
| jotham | same | 10:59 |
| jotham | on my 19" i can have my editor and output window side by side with 110 cols of edit and some 30-40 cols of output | 10:59 |
| llnz | i have an open file list and my editor window side by side, editor has 112 cols, and only takes up one of my dual 19" monitors | 11:01 |
| jotham | only 17" and 19" here | 11:01 |
| jotham | terminals on the 17 | 11:01 |
| jotham | so does every ship have a unique ID/reference string? | 11:03 |
| jotham | what mithro has given me is things like battleship-54-2 planet-23 frigate-59-3 | 11:04 |
| jotham | what do the numbers represent | 11:04 |
| llnz | in the game (minisec and MTSec), each fleet has a object id | 11:04 |
| jotham | so first number is fleet second number is ship? | 11:04 |
| llnz | yes | 11:05 |
| jotham | and each fleet in the entire game universe has a unique ID? or is that number just incrimented per fleet for each player? | 11:05 |
| llnz | unique id, across all objects within a game | 11:06 |
| jotham | ok cool | 11:06 |
| llnz | up to 4 billion | 11:06 |
| jotham | ok so i don't need to sanity check to make sure i'm not being passed the same entity more than once when my viewer loads in the fleet entities | 11:07 |
| llnz | nope, xml validation should take care of suitations when the generator accidentally created duplicate id attributes | 11:09 |
| * llnz wanders off | 11:31 | |
| llnz | later all | 11:31 |
| *** llnz has quit IRC | 11:31 | |
| mithro | howdy | 11:31 |
| jotham | hey mithro | 11:32 |
| mithro | how goes the battleviewer? | 11:32 |
| jotham | rearranging everything to use the event system has made quite a mess, but i'm slowly getting back to where i was before | 11:32 |
| jotham | but it's going well | 11:33 |
| jotham | what size fleets are going to be typical | 11:33 |
| mithro | about 4-8 or 20-30 or 80-130 | 11:35 |
| jotham | man this is crying out for opengl then | 11:35 |
| jotham | at least then you'd get a homeworldesque pannable viewable battlespace | 11:35 |
| mithro | but start with the 4-8 idea | 11:36 |
| jotham | cool | 11:36 |
| mithro | jotham: by the time we get to regular 80-130 I hope you are working on battleviewer2 :) | 11:36 |
| jotham | yeah, it sounds fun | 11:36 |
| mithro | a cool 3d, homeworldesque battlespace would be cool - probably do something with pyogre or something | 11:37 |
| jotham | doing everything in 2D with s/w is so slow | 11:38 |
| jotham | i wish HW surfaces were dependable in pygame | 11:38 |
| jotham | i am going to have to do a few experiments, it'd make making a smooth animated background trivial | 11:38 |
| mithro | jotham: don't worry to much about it - we just need something which we can use for a while | 11:39 |
| jotham | yep | 11:39 |
| mithro | consider it a kind of "prototype" I guess | 11:39 |
| mithro | if it worked okay with 20-30 it would be really good too | 11:40 |
| jotham | yeah i am thinking i am going to try to get the fleets to auto-arrange into filled-V formations or circle formations if there is a planet in the fleet | 11:45 |
| jotham | so | 11:45 |
| jotham | v v | 11:46 |
| jotham | v v v | 11:46 |
| jotham | v o v | 11:46 |
| jotham | v v v v | 11:46 |
| jotham | v | 11:46 |
| jotham | would be 2 fleets without a planet, and 1 fleet with a planet | 11:46 |
| jotham | or something equivilent | 11:46 |
| jotham | the other options are random dispersal and a big ring or box | 11:47 |
| jotham | s/and a/or a/ | 11:47 |
| mithro | jotham: what ever you prefer | 11:48 |
| *** nash has joined #tp | 12:04 | |
| mithro | jotham: you commiting often using darcs? | 12:04 |
| mithro | wb nash | 12:04 |
| nash | mithro: heyo | 12:04 |
| jotham | mithro: not really, it's too much of a mess atm, not even runable, i didn't see the point | 12:05 |
| nash | Can you create a branch and commit to that? | 12:06 |
| mithro | jotham: good to do it so that you can revert back to previous version when you stuff up | 12:06 |
| mithro | nash: every darcs repos is a "branch" | 12:06 |
| nash | So then jotham - do that then commit to a branch - even if it isn't runnable. | 12:08 |
| nash | COmmit frequently will save you grief one day... | 12:08 |
| jotham | usually i do, but this is just the splitting of one large class into two, then the gluing of the peices togeather | 12:08 |
| mithro | nash: it's saved me greif regularly because i'm bit of a duffer :) | 12:08 |
| jotham | i'll ask when it isn't 1am how to create a branch properly :p | 12:08 |
| jotham | i.e. tomorrow | 12:08 |
| mithro | jotham: don't need to "branch" with darcs | 12:09 |
| nash | mithro: Don't need to be a duffer to have grief avoided... | 12:09 |
| mithro | just use record and not push | 12:09 |
| jotham | ok | 12:09 |
| jotham | i am used to not having version control, so i tend to build tests before implimenting them | 12:10 |
| nash | grr... it is annoying have tp-server under darcs, and tpe under git... | 12:10 |
| jotham | but am trying to learn the way of darcs :p | 12:10 |
| nash | jotham: That sounds like pain | 12:10 |
| * jotham shrugs | 12:10 | |
| * nash (like most) started without version control (thinking who needs that) | 12:11 | |
| * nash then disovered CVS. | 12:11 | |
| jotham | see i like svn a lot | 12:11 |
| nash | 6 months later I wondered how I did without it | 12:11 |
| jotham | but darcs is still a bit foreign | 12:11 |
| nash | A few years later I discovered arch (tla/baz) | 12:11 |
| mithro | once you get use to darcs and co, it's impossible to go back to things like cvs/svn | 12:12 |
| nash | Exactly | 12:13 |
| nash | A year later... I wonder how I survived without distribution, cheap branches, and the like | 12:13 |
| mithro | there are just a few bugs left in darcs which annoy me however | 12:14 |
| mithro | see my blog :) | 12:14 |
| jotham | so each time i record without pushing i can still view one of those previous recordings? | 12:14 |
| jotham | in a different location on my file system? | 12:15 |
| mithro | yes | 12:15 |
| mithro | you can do a "darcs get ~jotham/my-original-repository" and only pull the bits you want | 12:16 |
| jotham | ok sounds good | 12:16 |
| mithro | and it's really cheap because darcs will use hardlinks where avaliable | 12:16 |
| jotham | i always liked the SVN revision browser i used because i could explore the state of any file in any revision without having to check it out | 12:17 |
| nash | jotham: *yawn* | 12:17 |
| nash | Can do that in CVS... ;-) | 12:17 |
| jotham | yeah i'm not trying to discuss which version control is better than which | 12:17 |
| mithro | jotham: you see darcs web? | 12:18 |
| jotham | just explaining what i find useful so i can best come to terms with darcs | 12:18 |
| nash | I think most you can - and besides checking out should be cheap - | 12:18 |
| nash | (which is where arch can fall down horribly) | 12:18 |
| jotham | mithro: the website for darcs, or the website we use to view the state of the patches etc? | 12:18 |
| mithro | http://darcs.thousandparsec.net/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi | 12:19 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/$0b> (at darcs.thousandparsec.net) | 12:19 |
| jotham | yeah i use the battleviewer one | 12:19 |
| jotham | it's nice | 12:19 |
| jotham | so i assume i can get that running locally for my own repositories? | 12:19 |
| jotham | right now i'd have to push to the tp one to see it | 12:20 |
| mithro | jotham: yeah, apt-get install darcsweb :) | 12:20 |
| jotham | sweet | 12:20 |
| jotham | ubuntu doesn't seem to have it, i'll hunt it down tomorrow - going to bed now, night guys =) | 12:21 |
| jotham | oh, darcs-server there we go | 12:21 |
| mithro | gnigt | 12:21 |
| nash | night | 12:21 |
| nash | mithro: That is the worst typos I've seen this week | 12:21 |
| mithro | my h key is a bit sticky sometimes it doesn't work :/ | 12:22 |
| mithro | time toget a new laptop i think | 12:22 |
| nash | Can that expkains the 'gn' how? | 12:22 |
| mithro | gnight | 12:23 |
| mithro | well thats what I was trying to night | 12:23 |
| nash | :-) | 12:23 |
| mithro | s/night/type | 12:23 |
| mithro | bah | 12:23 |
| mithro | maybe I should go to bed | 12:23 |
| mithro | nash: no bugs to report? | 12:24 |
| nash | mithro: There is one | 12:24 |
| nash | ./tpserver -C /does/not/exist | 12:24 |
| mithro | is your colonisation working now? | 12:24 |
| nash | Doesn't fail as expected | 12:24 |
| nash | Seems to be - maybe. | 12:25 |
| nash | I've moved some other code over to my more structureed send code (no more buf[i] = ... cruft) | 12:25 |
| nash | But I keep getting values in my Z axis | 12:25 |
| nash | Which is strange | 12:25 |
| mithro | oh? | 12:26 |
| nash | It's at my end... but I can't figure out why | 12:26 |
| nash | It seems to be X == Z | 12:27 |
| mithro | weird | 12:27 |
| nash | I can fix it by hardcoding 0 for Z, but strangely... I'd like to sort out the real issue | 12:27 |
| nash | Yeah, very strange. | 12:27 |
| nash | It's really sureal actually | 12:29 |
| nash | Values passed in: | 12:29 |
| nash | Dest is -1500006300 1500078245 0 | 12:29 |
| nash | Values read out: a697b864 0 a697b864 | 12:29 |
| nash | Doesn't make sense at all | 12:29 |
| nash | One is hex obviously | 12:30 |
| mithro | he he, not that tired | 12:30 |
| mithro | hrm | 12:32 |
| mithro | the y value is 0? | 12:32 |
| nash | Ahh... Bingo | 12:32 |
| mithro | i removed your code so I didn't get tempted to improve it :) | 12:32 |
| nash | The htonll macro I'm using is broken... And does multiple expansion | 12:34 |
| * nash is reminded once again why he hates macros | 12:34 | |
| nash | so htonll(va_arg(..)) turns into multiple va_args... | 12:35 |
| nash | mithro: Anyway my code will be public in a month, and I'll be happy to accept patches | 12:37 |
| mithro | he he | 12:38 |
| mithro | i have my own code to try and make usable | 12:38 |
| nash | Okay - lets see how the thing goes | 12:38 |
| nash | You really need to a new release if it improves performance | 12:38 |
| nash | The stable release is too damn slow | 12:38 |
| nash | I use a 10s turn for testing. The python client can'te even download a turn in that time | 12:38 |
| mithro | the dev version seems to take about 3-6 seconds - enough so i can issue a move order with 15 second turns | 12:40 |
| nash | Well there is at least one bug still - For some reason it is trying to colonise a planet on the other side of the solar system | 12:40 |
| mithro | you got the ids wrong? | 12:40 |
| nash | Possible | 12:41 |
| nash | Very weird | 12:42 |
| mithro | might see if I can backport the pipelining | 12:42 |
| nash | So it colonised Mandelas system on the other side of the unicers, then started doing the sane thing... now it's doing something silly again | 12:42 |
| nash | Why can't you release the current version? | 12:42 |
| mithro | you can't select anything on the starmap | 12:43 |
| mithro | windows don't work properly | 12:43 |
| mithro | segfaults randomly on MacOS X | 12:43 |
| mithro | hence the -dev branch | 12:44 |
| * nash thinks it would be better to spend time fixing current version then backporting then | 12:44 | |
| nash | Unless there is someone else who wants to play with the stable release | 12:45 |
| mithro | pretty much my opinion too | 12:45 |
| mithro | hopfully it'll be less then a month before the -dev version is ready for testing by the public | 12:46 |
| nash | Good | 12:46 |
| mithro | but it needs me to get down and finish the new starmap | 12:47 |
| mithro | which should make doing starmappy things much easier and finally fix the long standing issues with it | 12:48 |
| mithro | but I actually need to write code instead of sitting around and talking about it :) | 12:49 |
| nash | Agreed | 12:49 |
| nash | I'm going to bed shortly... so no excuses... | 12:49 |
| mithro | and my honors project is going to take up a lot of my time over the next 6 months :/ | 12:49 |
| nash | Then I think getting things like protocol done are more important | 12:50 |
| mithro | anyway I'm going to bed right now! | 12:50 |
| nash | http://tranquillity.nash.id.au/tp/Screenshot-5.png | 12:51 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/JSY> (at tranquillity.nash.id.au) | 12:51 |
| nash | Current screen shot... | 12:51 |
| mithro | :) | 12:52 |
| mithro | maybe starsystems you own should be in a different color? | 12:52 |
| nash | mithro: Oh - absolutely | 12:52 |
| nash | It's on my todo - but getting the AI to play was the first goal | 12:52 |
| nash | Next is useful player info - messages as well | 12:52 |
| mithro | then we could see your AI conqure the universe :) | 12:52 |
| nash | Indeed - I can then do an animation of it going through ;-) | 12:53 |
| nash | Anyway - sleep well | 12:53 |
| nash | Talk to you tomorrow most likely | 12:53 |
| mithro | i would like to see your ai vs your ai | 12:53 |
| nash | So would I - a horrible stale mate ;-) | 12:53 |
| mithro | be cool screencast ;) | 12:53 |
| nash | But very very fun stalemate ;-) | 12:53 |
| nash | Yep | 12:53 |
| nash | Need multiple ship colours... | 12:54 |
| nash | Anyway - todo... ;-) | 12:54 |
| mithro | anyway bed! | 12:54 |
| nash | indeed | 12:54 |
| nash | gniskdt | 12:54 |
| nash | Or however you type it | 12:54 |
| mithro | adsfj;ljadfsdbfasjdfh! | 12:54 |
| *** nash has quit IRC | 12:55 | |
| JLP | yay, finaly managed to build first package on openSUSE build service | 13:05 |
| JLP | repositories will be here: http://software.opensuse.org/download/home:/JRepin/ | 13:06 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/JSZ> (at software.opensuse.org) | 13:06 |
| JLP | actually quite nice that you only write one RPM spec and have it automatically used to build for different distros | 13:07 |
| *** tuna-fish has quit IRC | 15:49 | |
| *** tuna-fish has joined #tp | 15:49 | |
| *** mithro has quit IRC | 22:13 | |
| *** nash has joined #tp | 22:32 | |
| *** mithro has joined #tp | 22:43 | |
| mithro | yay! summer ended | 23:01 |
| * mithro hopes the heat will go with it | 23:02 | |
| mithro | how is everyone today? | 23:02 |
| mithro | TBBle: ping - did you get a chance to poke Murphy? Any news on your deb stuff? | 23:02 |
| nash | heyo mithro | 23:02 |
| TBBle | Ah, right. It slipped my mind, I'll do it now. | 23:02 |
| TBBle | No news on .deb stuff yet either. >_< | 23:03 |
| TBBle | mithro: Crap, I just forgot your real name. | 23:03 |
| TBBle | Oh, I remember. | 23:03 |
| mithro | TBBle: Tim Ansell | 23:04 |
| mithro | TBBle: of "The gaming miniconf guy" | 23:04 |
| mithro | s/of/or | 23:04 |
| TBBle | There, email sent. | 23:05 |
| mithro | TBBle: thanks | 23:06 |
| *** jarv has joined #tp | 23:06 | |
| *** jarv has left #tp | 23:07 | |
| mithro | TBBle: so on a side note, can I build the debs using the stuff you gave me - or is there something more required? | 23:07 |
| TBBle | You can build all the debs except the clent itself, as I recall. | 23:11 |
| mithro | okay cool - I might give it a try | 23:28 |
| nash | mithro: Summer never started | 23:28 |
| mithro | nash: it's been hot enough | 23:31 |
| nash | Not in Sydney | 23:31 |
| mithro | well in Adelaide it has | 23:31 |
| * mithro ponders | 23:31 | |
| mithro | what should I do, my honours project - thousand parsec or browse fark.com | 23:32 |
| nash | TP | 23:32 |
| nash | Write TP04 protocol | 23:33 |
| nash | That should be your highest priority TP task too ;-) | 23:33 |
| nash | Once that exists people can move clients and servers forward | 23:34 |
| nash | So it's critical path | 23:34 |
| mithro | nash: well kind of - there is a lot that can be done without TP04, MTSec can be completely implimented without TP04 (although a few things become nicer with TP04) | 23:37 |
| * nash notes object deletion needs to be there for a real game | 23:37 | |
| nash | Then I would say MTSec is the critical path | 23:38 |
| * nash thinks the most important thing for the project is a playable game. Minisec is a nice tech demo, but it's not a playable game | 23:38 | |
| nash | Once you have a game people can play, it will be a lot easier to get new developers. | 23:39 |
| mithro | nash: well MiniSec has the advantage that you can crank the turn time up and still play it - MTSec would suck with 5 minute turns :) | 23:40 |
| mithro | maybe we need a Gantt chart!? | 23:41 |
| nash | That is why TP04 is necessary - so all connected clients can say "I'm done" and gen a new turn | 23:41 |
| nash | mithro: I'm trying to come to some sense | 23:41 |
| nash | Gantt charts are a way of representing the info | 23:41 |
| mithro | nash: do you know of a good web based Gantt chart? It would be nice to see the dependencies | 23:42 |
| nash | Nope - but once I actually get the task list (with my semi-arbitrary prios) everyone will be able to get it. | 23:43 |
| mithro | nash: there are a lot of "smaller" tasks which i have in my mind for tpclient-pywx | 23:43 |
| nash | mithro: Thats what I'm worried about | 23:44 |
| nash | OSS/Free software can have ap problem with people playing around with smaller fun/interesting projects without anyone diving in to fix big things | 23:45 |
| mithro | nash: IE "Add the Ship path overlay", "Add a quickmove button", etc | 23:45 |
| mithro | i guess if i wrote em down I would stop wondering what I should do | 23:45 |
| * mithro ponders if you can have a private sf tracker | 23:45 | |
| nash | Yep. Thats what I'm trying to bring together for you | 23:45 |
| nash | You can add them to your own task list | 23:45 |
| nash | But if it is private... may I suggest vim? | 23:46 |
| mithro | i really need something which can handle dependencies - which I guess the sf tracker doesn't | 23:46 |
| nash | Yes and no. Just get hte list, and priroritise. Move something up if something else depends on it | 23:47 |
| nash | Seriosult 1 person - keep it simple. | 23:47 |
| nash | Jus tmake a list and do it | 23:48 |
| nash | For you I think the most important thing is to get the ideas down so other people can implement them | 23:48 |
| nash | You have multiple clients and servers out there - and people working on them (inc yourself). | 23:49 |
| mithro | oohh -> this looks cool http://www.museworld.com/archives/001489.html | 23:49 |
| tpb | Title: Hunting The Muse: Todo Nest: Todo List With Dependencies (at www.museworld.com) | 23:49 |
| nash | Yeah - but no source | 23:49 |
| mithro | "One thing I've always hated about todo lists is that when you think of stuff to do, you often aren't enabled to do like three fourths of them. But then you have this massive todo list that looks overwhelming." <- I feel that way too | 23:49 |
| mithro | which is why I never use the evolution task list | 23:50 |
| nash | Install Tomboy - then you can put them in seperate notes and link them | 23:50 |
| nash | So you have one short list | 23:50 |
| nash | Or just work on TP04... since we have established it is critical path anyway ;-) | 23:51 |
| mithro | i decided I didn't like tomboy | 23:55 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.5 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!
