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| TheAssassin | has anyone ever tried one of these cheaper UVC-compatible devices on Linux? | 14:42 |
|---|---|---|
| TheAssassin | I know that this elgato game capture a friend bought doesn't work reliably on Linux as there's no real driver for it, and it doesn't support UVC | 14:43 |
| TheAssassin | but it seems there's some (even cheaper) alternatives | 14:43 |
| TheAssassin | e.g., from AVERmedia | 14:43 |
| TheAssassin | this live gamer portable lite device seems usable | 14:43 |
| TheAssassin | and it's just 80 bucks | 14:43 |
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| CarlFK | TheAssassin: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Digilent-Atlys-Spartan-6-FPGA-Trainer-Board/183160079421?epid=1726476781&hash=item2aa531043d:g:6GkAAOSwE0ZawyEf | 14:55 |
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| CarlFK | oh right, shipping to EU | 15:04 |
| TheAssassin | it's 40 bucks | 15:04 |
| TheAssassin | I've seen it earlier on the German eBay | 15:04 |
| TheAssassin | but yeah, thanks, CarlFK :) | 15:05 |
| CarlFK | i still say your time is worth more | 15:05 |
| TheAssassin | I'm still looking for low-end stuff though :) | 15:06 |
| CarlFK | there is something to be said for the enjoyment out of hacking someone elses product | 15:06 |
| TheAssassin | I wish there was a seller for the opsis in the EU that'd eliminate the horrific shipping fees | 15:07 |
| CarlFK | seller for what? | 15:08 |
| TheAssassin | numato opsis | 15:08 |
| CarlFK | how much is shipping? | 15:08 |
| TheAssassin | usually from the US ~40 bucks | 15:08 |
| CarlFK | is it coming from the US? | 15:09 |
| TheAssassin | they don't show any fees on numato.com | 15:09 |
| TheAssassin | not 100% sure | 15:09 |
| TheAssassin | but I'd expect India to be at least as expensive | 15:09 |
| TheAssassin | with something as expensive, you want some shipping with insurance after all | 15:10 |
| TheAssassin | btw, CarlFK, that atlys board is listed as "defective" but in the description it's said to work, that's a little irritating | 15:11 |
| CarlFK | yeah, I was wondering about that | 15:11 |
| TheAssassin | just found this one https://www.ebay.de/itm/Digilent-ATLYS-Spartan-6-Board-2x-HDMI-IN-2xHDMI-out-Ethernet-USB-DDR2-SPI/282909984518 | 15:11 |
| tpb | Title: Digilent ATLYS Spartan-6 Board 2x HDMI IN & 2xHDMI out Ethernet USB DDR2 SPI | eBay (at www.ebay.de) | 15:11 |
| TheAssassin | that's ~270 EUR | 15:13 |
| CarlFK | If you don't want that, one of the gsoc students might | 15:13 |
| TheAssassin | which one? | 15:14 |
| TheAssassin | the one from israel? | 15:14 |
| TheAssassin | I'll get in touch with the German seller | 15:14 |
| CarlFK | all of them - we are still trying to figure out what boards they need for their projects | 15:14 |
| CarlFK | not all of them need all the hdmi io | 15:15 |
| TheAssassin | does google pay for the hardware? :) | 15:15 |
| CarlFK | nope | 15:15 |
| TheAssassin | probably don't | 15:15 |
| TheAssassin | would you say that this atlys board is worth 260 EUR? | 15:15 |
| TheAssassin | I can suggest a lower price | 15:15 |
| CarlFK | "worth" and all that gets tricky ;) | 15:15 |
| TheAssassin | well, he says something about "used once" | 15:16 |
| CarlFK | how much is an hour of your time worth? how much are the videos you do or don't make worth? | 15:16 |
| TheAssassin | but he soldered a little around on that board | 15:16 |
| TheAssassin | hey I'm just trying to get that thing a little cheaper :) I mean if anyone offers "suggest a price" the price they offer it for must be too high | 15:16 |
| CarlFK | how much to you value the ansible stuff we have to setup the recording stack | 15:17 |
| TheAssassin | please don't make it a "worth your time" thing again :) I'm interested in getting an atlys now | 15:17 |
| TheAssassin | with my 3d printer I could make a nice case even, using some neutrik HDMI sockets | 15:17 |
| TheAssassin | I think I'll offer him 200 and will try to negotiate | 15:18 |
| CarlFK | that works - i'm guessing you will get it at some price, and know you tried | 15:18 |
| TheAssassin | I was trying to ask "what price should I start with" | 15:19 |
| TheAssassin | 200 should work | 15:19 |
| CarlFK | my guess is asking fo 50% off is insulting, but 25% off is reasonable | 15:20 |
| TheAssassin | exactly | 15:20 |
| TheAssassin | and it seems like nobody else's going to buy it | 15:20 |
| TheAssassin | the offer ends in 2 days | 15:20 |
| TheAssassin | these kinds of boards are some really special items for a niche market | 15:21 |
| CarlFK | the board is almost as big as a mini itx mb (opsis is exactly that big) | 15:21 |
| TheAssassin | quite large actually | 15:21 |
| CarlFK | have you ever printed a case for something like that ? | 15:21 |
| TheAssassin | well, in multiple parts | 15:21 |
| TheAssassin | my printer can do 200x200x200 mm | 15:22 |
| CarlFK | I have never printed anything, but watch lots of people do it | 15:22 |
| TheAssassin | if I come up with a design I'll share it with you | 15:22 |
| TheAssassin | heck, I could even print some and send them to your students :) | 15:22 |
| CarlFK | a friend printed a ukulele - i think in just 2 parts | 15:22 |
| TheAssassin | i'm printing useful stuff only | 15:22 |
| TheAssassin | I have tons of bottle openers which I use for calibration | 15:22 |
| CarlFK | lol | 15:23 |
| TheAssassin | I think I printed at least 50 already | 15:23 |
| TheAssassin | there was a batch of 20 though, same design, as giveaways | 15:23 |
| TheAssassin | I just saw this: https://store.digilentinc.com/nexys-video-artix-7-fpga-trainer-board-for-multimedia-applications/ | 15:24 |
| TheAssassin | they say it's the successor of the atlys | 15:24 |
| tpb | Title: Nexys Video Artix-7 FPGA: Trainer Board for Multimedia Applications - Digilent (at store.digilentinc.com) | 15:24 |
| TheAssassin | but soemhow, there's a shitton less connectors | 15:24 |
| CarlFK | yeah - not enough hdmi | 15:24 |
| TheAssassin | it's got a little more RAM and a newer FPGA but why do they have just 2 HDMIs | 15:24 |
| TheAssassin | where's your students from, CarlFK? | 15:25 |
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| CarlFK | I have none - im the admin this year | 15:25 |
| TheAssassin | well I meant like "the set of students that you were assigned" | 15:25 |
| TheAssassin | as a project | 15:25 |
| TheAssassin | europe? asia? US? | 15:26 |
| CarlFK | not sure | 15:27 |
| CarlFK | https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:248181 I want something like that, only stand alone, and more slots. | 15:28 |
| tpb | Title: Makerbot Replicator 2 SD card caddy by UoBQuantumMatter - Thingiverse (at www.thingiverse.com) | 15:28 |
| CarlFK | ever seen anything like that? | 15:28 |
| TheAssassin | the printer? | 15:28 |
| TheAssassin | or the card thing? | 15:28 |
| TheAssassin | I'll show you mine | 15:28 |
| TheAssassin | (sd card thingy) | 15:28 |
| TheAssassin | https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1322805 | 15:29 |
| tpb | Title: SD Card Holder by n2b8 - Thingiverse (at www.thingiverse.com) | 15:29 |
| TheAssassin | that thing is great | 15:29 |
| TheAssassin | you can't lose the cards | 15:29 |
| TheAssassin | I just lost the whole thing before the 34C3 ~4 months ago and therefore bought 3 new SD cards | 15:29 |
| TheAssassin | but I found it again | 15:29 |
| TheAssassin | I printed mine in a neon color | 15:29 |
| TheAssassin | I love the design | 15:29 |
| CarlFK | yeah, something like that. | 15:30 |
| TheAssassin | where do you live? | 15:30 |
| CarlFK | US - Chicago | 15:30 |
| TheAssassin | argh :) that shipping would be quite expensive, but I still have this neon filament, and could print you a few | 15:31 |
| TheAssassin | lemme take a pic of mine | 15:31 |
| CarlFK | do you know Holger aka h01ger? | 15:32 |
| TheAssassin | nope | 15:32 |
| TheAssassin | Germany is quite a big country :) | 15:32 |
| CarlFK | debian guy, hard to miss is you go to those sorts of events | 15:33 |
| CarlFK | know anyone going to https://www.crowdsupply.com/teardown/portland-2018 | 15:33 |
| tpb | Title: Teardown: Portland 2018 | Crowd Supply (at www.crowdsupply.com) | 15:33 |
| TheAssassin | well the congress is huge, 13k people this year | 15:33 |
| TheAssassin | I'd say it's quite hard to _meet_ the guy | 15:33 |
| TheAssassin | I met a few C3VOC members on the openSUSE conf last year though | 15:34 |
| CarlFK | I think there is a small debconf event in Hamburg in 2 or 3 weeks. | 15:35 |
| TheAssassin | hurry up, flashair | 15:35 |
| TheAssassin | https://transfer.assassinate-you.net/2NRoj/screenshot_2018-04-30_17-34-27.png | 15:38 |
| TheAssassin | CarlFK: ^ | 15:38 |
| CarlFK | pretty | 15:39 |
| TheAssassin | it's a little shiny | 15:39 |
| CarlFK | I have mixed feelings about the cap | 15:39 |
| TheAssassin | I used a speedlight indirectly via the ceiling, but it's a wooden ceiling, so the effect is a bit annoying | 15:39 |
| TheAssassin | mattening* | 15:39 |
| TheAssassin | why? | 15:39 |
| CarlFK | I don't transport them around much, other than in devices. so I would likely lose the caps | 15:40 |
| CarlFK | in thinking about what I need, I'm not really sure | 15:40 |
| TheAssassin | you don't need to use a cap | 15:40 |
| TheAssassin | I just liked the design | 15:40 |
| TheAssassin | I'm a hobby photographer, and my equipment needs to be portable | 15:41 |
| CarlFK | my current problem is I keep finding SD cards here and there | 15:41 |
| TheAssassin | hm | 15:41 |
| TheAssassin | you probably need an SD card detector | 15:41 |
| CarlFK | lol | 15:41 |
| CarlFK | I need to stop buying them from the local store every time the price drops | 15:42 |
| TheAssassin | heh | 15:42 |
| TheAssassin | the problem with SD cards is | 15:42 |
| TheAssassin | if you got too many, your files get scattered across a lot of them | 15:42 |
| TheAssassin | and they all look basically the same | 15:42 |
| TheAssassin | right? | 15:42 |
| CarlFK | yeah - you can't write something useful on them with a sharpie | 15:42 |
| TheAssassin | I love my Toshiba FlashAir card though | 15:42 |
| TheAssassin | great for portrait making | 15:43 |
| TheAssassin | on events | 15:43 |
| TheAssassin | just put a TV somewhere with a raspi and a browser | 15:43 |
| CarlFK | ah, wifi thing | 15:43 |
| TheAssassin | yeah | 15:43 |
| TheAssassin | https://github.com/TheAssassin/FlashAssassin | 15:43 |
| tpb | Title: GitHub - TheAssassin/FlashAssassin: Toshiba FlashAir™ browser client (at github.com) | 15:43 |
| TheAssassin | I wrote my own client for it :) | 15:43 |
| CarlFK | neat | 15:43 |
| TheAssassin | that thing has a sort-of "API" | 15:43 |
| CarlFK | that's expalins the screen shot of a picture. | 15:43 |
| TheAssassin | you can just put my app on the SD card and you got a portable setup that works with _any_ device | 15:43 |
| TheAssassin | ikr :) I often do that if I don't need a high res pic | 15:44 |
| TheAssassin | CarlFK: what software are you using for editing? | 15:45 |
| CarlFK | edit what? | 15:46 |
| TheAssassin | videos | 15:47 |
| CarlFK | i don't really edit ;) | 15:47 |
| TheAssassin | I hope it's free software ;) | 15:47 |
| TheAssassin | ah | 15:47 |
| TheAssassin | you're also one of these "record it right once so you don't have to edit a lot"? | 15:47 |
| CarlFK | https://github.com/CarlFK/veyepar is kinda the answer | 15:47 |
| tpb | Title: GitHub - CarlFK/veyepar: Video Eyeball Processor and Review (at github.com) | 15:47 |
| CarlFK | er, i guess voctomix is what does what you are thinking of | 15:48 |
| TheAssassin | nah, I was like trying to ask "are you one of these people who still use Adobe's crapsoftware or did you switch to free software" | 15:49 |
| TheAssassin | veyepar looks interesting | 15:49 |
| TheAssassin | reminds me of what the C3VOC uses, this FUSE file system | 15:49 |
| TheAssassin | I think their system doesn't need a database, though | 15:50 |
| CarlFK | similar idea - theres terrifies me | 15:50 |
| TheAssassin | why? :) | 15:50 |
| CarlFK | i dont' understand it well enough to know how it handles all the edge cases - and there are tons of them | 15:51 |
| CarlFK | veyepar emails and tweets video urls at the presenters | 15:52 |
| CarlFK | and tracks "permission to release" - need a DB for that | 15:52 |
| TheAssassin | I suppose you're a debconf member? | 15:52 |
| CarlFK | "member" is very lose. sure. I was video team lead for dc 2014 - I guess that makes me "in" | 15:52 |
| CarlFK | I am not a DD. thats much more well defined. | 15:53 |
| CarlFK | https://github.com/CarlFK/veyepar you can click around - as long as you aren' tlogged in you shouldn't be able to modify anyting | 15:53 |
| tpb | Title: GitHub - CarlFK/veyepar: Video Eyeball Processor and Review (at github.com) | 15:53 |
| TheAssassin | debconf, not debian, in this case | 15:53 |
| TheAssassin | sooo | 15:54 |
| CarlFK | im subscribed to the dc-video mail list and auto-join #debconf-video - so that's something | 15:54 |
| TheAssassin | why "eyeball"? | 15:54 |
| CarlFK | lol - I like python, which is also a snake, viper snake, similar, had to make it work. | 15:55 |
| TheAssassin | aaaah it's a pun, now I see | 15:55 |
| TheAssassin | at first I thought this was some eyeball tracking thingy | 15:55 |
| CarlFK | na - the eye bit refers to there is still some human interaction needed | 15:56 |
| TheAssassin | so, I was checking why this low end AVERmedia thing is a bad choice | 15:57 |
| CarlFK | mostly reading the "recording sheets" aka run-sheets and using what is written there to check boxes in the veyepart web pages | 15:57 |
| TheAssassin | seems like they compress the video too much, the quality suffers from it -.- | 15:57 |
| TheAssassin | why can't they just provide an uncompressed UVC stream... I guess that's a "feature" for their more expensive devices | 15:57 |
| TheAssassin | damn you, proprietary hardware | 15:57 |
| CarlFK | usb2? | 15:58 |
| TheAssassin | I think so | 15:58 |
| TheAssassin | I guess youre going to say "well USB2's IO rates aren't high enough for uncompressed video" | 15:59 |
| TheAssassin | but here, it really seems like it's a markething thing | 15:59 |
| CarlFK | we bump into that - it's tricky to get 720p over usb2 | 15:59 |
| TheAssassin | how much delay can I expect from an atlys with hdmi2usb | 15:59 |
| CarlFK | but at "quality = 80" (no idea what that really means) the results are .. I never notice artifacts | 16:00 |
| TheAssassin | that elgato crapthing we have has > 1 second | 16:00 |
| TheAssassin | that's really annoying | 16:00 |
| CarlFK | hdmi2usb has like 1 or 2 frames of buffer | 16:00 |
| TheAssassin | that's pretty low | 16:00 |
| TheAssassin | I guess we're talking about a total delay of ~0.2-0.3 seconds then | 16:01 |
| CarlFK | this thing: hdmi2usb -> usb port -> gst client -> voctocore server -> voctocore gui | 16:01 |
| CarlFK | is noticeable, but in the 200 ms range. | 16:01 |
| TheAssassin | well, my next event will be an esports live stream, commented by two professional casters | 16:02 |
| TheAssassin | 200ms is low enough for the kind of game and audience | 16:02 |
| CarlFK | well, hardly noticeable. more like detectable if you put the two side by side | 16:02 |
| TheAssassin | or the audio goes out of sync | 16:03 |
| TheAssassin | which is a problem at >1 second | 16:03 |
| TheAssassin | I'm working in the audio communication field, and even I have problems to hear delays <100ms | 16:03 |
| CarlFK | dv -> firewire -...->dvswitch was even better... but the extra latency doesn't bother me at all. | 16:03 |
| TheAssassin | inexperienced people won't notice even 20 | 16:03 |
| TheAssassin | 0 | 16:03 |
| TheAssassin | for conference streaming this isn't such a big problem | 16:04 |
| TheAssassin | and, with hardware like the atlys, where you know the software, you can actually estimate the delay very well | 16:04 |
| TheAssassin | and then offset the audio by that value | 16:04 |
| TheAssassin | with that elgato thingy, which is a black box, I continuously readjusted the delay | 16:04 |
| TheAssassin | last time | 16:04 |
| CarlFK | we handle that by mixing the audio into the camera feed | 16:05 |
| TheAssassin | hm | 16:05 |
| TheAssassin | into the HDMI with some box? or on the FPGA board? | 16:05 |
| CarlFK | well.. some of us do. some also use usb audio and then mess with delays | 16:05 |
| CarlFK | fpga doesn't do audio (yet) so blackmagic card in a pc | 16:06 |
| TheAssassin | I'm not really a video guy, I love to work with audio and photography | 16:06 |
| TheAssassin | video is a bad compromise of both hobbies IMO ;) | 16:06 |
| TheAssassin | I see | 16:06 |
| TheAssassin | if/when I get one of these FPGA boards, I'll perform some measurements | 16:07 |
| CarlFK | that sounds close to unit tests :D | 16:07 |
| CarlFK | I just got jenkins running last night | 16:07 |
| TheAssassin | nah, I'd really call it a measurement | 16:07 |
| CarlFK | yeah, but if you can measure it, you can test to see if is close to an expected number | 16:08 |
| TheAssassin | yknow, like, using my super-low-delay USB audio device and the HDMI in of the atlys board, record both streams, and feed both with the same audio source | 16:08 |
| TheAssassin | well there's always a delay in the USB stack of the computer | 16:08 |
| TheAssassin | maybe a realtime kernel will help with that | 16:09 |
| TheAssassin | I bet you can't provide "that one magic offset value" that'll work for everyone | 16:09 |
| CarlFK | for the test? | 16:09 |
| TheAssassin | for everyone to use in the future | 16:10 |
| TheAssassin | I bet the value is reproducible on the same system with the same hardware | 16:10 |
| TheAssassin | hey, maybe we can provide some kind of method that automatically estimates the delay for stuff like octomix | 16:10 |
| TheAssassin | which you can run once a day before the talks start | 16:11 |
| TheAssassin | shouldn't be too hard | 16:11 |
| CarlFK | iv pondered that | 16:11 |
| CarlFK | but I don't really have that problem, so meh. | 16:11 |
| TheAssassin | "iv"? | 16:11 |
| TheAssassin | meh, iv = "I've" | 16:11 |
| TheAssassin | it's late... | 16:12 |
| CarlFK | yes, that | 16:12 |
| TheAssassin | question: | 16:12 |
| TheAssassin | can you juse that gigabit interface on the atlys into a stream server? | 16:12 |
| CarlFK | 'yes' | 16:13 |
| TheAssassin | as in, "provide a (RTMP?) stream for later use" | 16:13 |
| CarlFK | once someone just finishes the firmware | 16:13 |
| TheAssassin | I see | 16:13 |
| CarlFK | which is being worked on | 16:13 |
| TheAssassin | lemme guess, GSoC? | 16:14 |
| CarlFK | not this year | 16:14 |
| TheAssassin | anyway I'll send this guy an offer now | 16:14 |
| CarlFK | maybe last. not sure who has done what | 16:14 |
| CarlFK | i use a $50 odroid c2, dc uses minoboard - $150 I think | 16:14 |
| TheAssassin | that thing can reencode the stream? | 16:15 |
| TheAssassin | or is the encoding performed on the atlys/opsis? | 16:15 |
| TheAssassin | sorry for all the noob questions, but your docs could be better | 16:15 |
| CarlFK | no - just sedn the frames over cat5 | 16:15 |
| CarlFK | send | 16:15 |
| TheAssassin | ah | 16:16 |
| CarlFK | if you can get the hdmi near the box runing voctocore, then don't need the cat5 link | 16:16 |
| cr1901_modern | mithro: What are the correct scopes for accessing timvideos repos using a GH token? | 16:16 |
| CarlFK | cr1901_modern: what's a GH token? | 16:16 |
| TheAssassin | cr1901_modern: purpose? and public or private repo? | 16:16 |
| TheAssassin | a GitHub personal access token | 16:17 |
| cr1901_modern | TheAssassin: hdmi2usb's travis CI scripts will check for my copies of submodules (litex, litevideo, etc) and use them if they exist. But I need a GH token to do that | 16:17 |
| cr1901_modern | Otherwise checking them out will fail even if my copies exist | 16:18 |
| TheAssassin | check everything in the repo section except for the private repos one | 16:18 |
| TheAssassin | that allows travis CI access to all repos you have write access to | 16:18 |
| CarlFK | I suspect hdmi2usb's travis doesn't have write access | 16:19 |
| cr1901_modern | Okay, I'll try that, thanks (not actually ready to test CI at this moment, just want to set up the env vars) | 16:19 |
| TheAssassin | if you don't need write access of any kind:status will work | 16:19 |
| TheAssassin | CarlFK: when the token is used to make requests, they're made on behalf of the user who owns the token | 16:20 |
| TheAssassin | there is no "project tokens" IIRC | 16:20 |
| TheAssassin | https://hdmi2usb.tv/faq/ is irritating me atm... so, 1080p30 is said to be supported, but then it's not | 16:21 |
| TheAssassin | wth | 16:21 |
| cr1901_modern | TheAssassin: I think you can generate multiple tokens based on purpose (i.e. per project) | 16:22 |
| TheAssassin | nope, I just checked, cr1901_modern | 16:23 |
| TheAssassin | there are only "personal access tokens" | 16:23 |
| CarlFK | I think 1080p30 "struggles" | 16:23 |
| TheAssassin | so you'd need a bot user | 16:23 |
| CarlFK | but lately so does 720p if you use all the ins and outs | 16:24 |
| TheAssassin | raw or MJPEG | 16:24 |
| CarlFK | the uvc is fine. (I think) the hdmi outs start flickering / tearing | 16:25 |
| TheAssassin | I see | 16:25 |
| CarlFK | i don't get it, given they stuff should be happening in parallel | 16:26 |
| TheAssassin | and the outs are merely pass through ports? | 16:26 |
| TheAssassin | that could be fixed by adding an active HDMI splitter before the device | 16:26 |
| TheAssassin | which duplicates the signal | 16:26 |
| CarlFK | i wouldn't call them pass though given the signal is decoded, put in a buffer, encoded, sent to the out port | 16:26 |
| TheAssassin | call them mirrors, then | 16:27 |
| CarlFK | yeah | 16:27 |
| TheAssassin | let's assume I don't need them | 16:27 |
| TheAssassin | the UVC input would work fine? | 16:27 |
| CarlFK | im not sure - i just focus on 720 | 16:27 |
| CarlFK | well, currently I am focused on getting the 15 bytes of version string to be right :p | 16:28 |
| TheAssassin | that's a downer | 16:28 |
| TheAssassin | now I need to look for commercial capture cards again... | 16:28 |
| CarlFK | I think what breaks the 720 is a 2nd input | 16:30 |
| CarlFK | so if you are doing just 1 1080 in and mjpg out, that might be fine | 16:30 |
| CarlFK | and if not, you can fix it :D | 16:31 |
| TheAssassin | I wonder how you'd produce a 1920p live stream of a cam recording | 16:31 |
| TheAssassin | is it really just upscaled? | 16:31 |
| TheAssassin | all the commercial hardware claims to be able to do so | 16:31 |
| CarlFK | no idea' | 16:33 |
| CarlFK | jenkins - installed, running, security key entered, " Plugins extend Jenkins with additional features to support many different needs. " | 16:35 |
| CarlFK | do I want to do that, or start with vanilla ? | 16:35 |
| CarlFK | grumble - "You have skipped creating an admin user. To log in, use the username: "admin" and the administrator password you used to access the setup wizard." | 16:37 |
| CarlFK | rage: Unable to connect to Jenkins | 16:38 |
| TheAssassin | CarlFK: "unable to connect to jenkins" is that the slave's output? | 16:44 |
| CarlFK | slave? thats what I see in my browser | 16:44 |
| TheAssassin | you want to install plugins, yes | 16:44 |
| TheAssassin | urm okay that's strange | 16:44 |
| CarlFK | hmm, i was using http://pkg.jenkins.io/debian and now I see thee is http://pkg.jenkins.io/debian-stable | 16:50 |
| tpb | Title: Debian Repository for Jenkins (at pkg.jenkins.io) | 16:50 |
| TheAssassin | ah well we used the upstream Jenkins for ~1.5 years without major issues | 16:50 |
| TheAssassin | however we used the JAR directly | 16:51 |
| TheAssassin | nowadays I'd deploy it in a Docker container | 16:51 |
| CarlFK | apt update, restart, back to plugin install thing.. | 16:55 |
| CarlFK | whops, tryied to cut/paste, clicked "install recommended" | 16:55 |
| TheAssassin | question: | 16:56 |
| TheAssassin | do you know some device that could serve as some "intermediate" HDMI "gateway" | 16:57 |
| TheAssassin | use case: | 16:57 |
| TheAssassin | unreliable capture device that needs to be reset from time to time | 16:57 |
| TheAssassin | and you don't want to re-setup resolution etc. on the source computer | 16:57 |
| TheAssassin | some intermediate device that would keep the connection to the computer and would "shield" it from these re-pluggings of the unreliable device would be awesome | 16:58 |
| TheAssassin | I love analog audio... | 16:58 |
| CarlFK | hdmi2usb device could do that ;) | 16:58 |
| TheAssassin | well a) it's really expensive, and you'd probably need more than one of these for the use case I describe, b) you said yourself that this "pass through" thing doesn't work that well | 16:59 |
| CarlFK | thats one of its design goals: isolate the source from the display device | 16:59 |
| TheAssassin | sure, but if it isn't capable of doing so with 2 streams at once | 17:00 |
| CarlFK | im not sure what the limits are right now - I don't need 2 inputs, so I haven't really poked at that in months | 17:01 |
| TheAssassin | i see | 17:02 |
| CarlFK | lunch time - meeting up with friends, bb in.. hour or so. | 17:05 |
| TheAssassin | see you then | 17:16 |
| mithro | TheAssassin: Nobody is currently using 2 inputs and 2 outputs + encoding, so nobody is currently working hard to fix that. | 17:45 |
| TheAssassin | mithro: I don't care about outputs at all, I'd need 2 inputs | 17:46 |
| mithro | TheAssassin: 2 inputs and 1 output + encoder should all work fine at 720p50 -- might be a bit dice at 720p60 at the moment | 17:46 |
| TheAssassin | the reason is, the hardware is expensive, and you'd cut the costs by half if one of those cards serves as a 2-in thing | 17:46 |
| mithro | TheAssassin: In theory 1080p30 could work, but nobody is using it at the moment so expect it to be broken | 17:47 |
| TheAssassin | I personally would like 1080p :) | 17:47 |
| TheAssassin | is it a software issue, or more of a hardware bottleneck issue? | 17:47 |
| mithro | TheAssassin: the best way to get something to supported is to be actively using and testing with it on tip-of-tree gateware/firmware | 17:47 |
| * TheAssassin never dev'd FPGA stuff | 17:48 | |
| TheAssassin | I'd prefer the "dumb user" role | 17:48 |
| TheAssassin | but this whole open-source-hdmi-to-usb-gateway-with-hackable-hardware topic is exciting | 17:48 |
| mithro | TheAssassin: 1080p30 is the same bandwidth as 720p60 as far as the input/outputs are concerned -- it's double the pixels for the encoder however | 17:49 |
| TheAssassin | In theory I could get away with 720p and upscaling it afterwards I guess... who notices the difference right :) | 17:49 |
| mithro | TheAssassin: https://opsis.hdmi2usb.tv/info/video-info-faq.html | 17:49 |
| TheAssassin | hm | 17:49 |
| TheAssassin | this whole hdmi2usb stuff needs to get more affordable... | 17:50 |
| mithro | 1080i60 is also the same bandwidth as 720p60 -- but nobody is using interlaced video, so nobody is working on making that supported | 17:50 |
| TheAssassin | ah well for my purposes 30fps would be enough | 17:51 |
| mithro | TheAssassin: The best way for it to get more affordable is to use it and get more people involved with development | 17:51 |
| TheAssassin | I think a hdmi2usb device with 720p capture will produce a way better quality than all these commercial shitcards which aren't really engineered well | 17:51 |
| mithro | TheAssassin: Making things cheaper requires developer effort and we don't really have the developer resources to do that right now | 17:52 |
| TheAssassin | I'm not trying to offend you | 17:52 |
| TheAssassin | I really like your work so far | 17:52 |
| mithro | TheAssassin: It is a goal for us to make things cheaper | 17:52 |
| TheAssassin | although I wish it would be a bit more visible on the internet | 17:52 |
| TheAssassin | btw you don't need to highlight me every time ;) | 17:52 |
| mithro | TheAssassin: You need to highlight me every time as I get distracted because I'm always doing multiple things at once :-) | 17:53 |
| TheAssassin | all this HDMI stuff is somewhat poorly engineered standards combined with annoying drm stuff | 17:53 |
| TheAssassin | mithro: good | 17:53 |
| TheAssassin | mithro: to | 17:53 |
| TheAssassin | mithro: know | 17:53 |
| TheAssassin | :P | 17:53 |
| TheAssassin | I know that btw mithro | 17:54 |
| TheAssassin | that's why I have 3 screens | 17:54 |
| mithro | TheAssassin: FYI There is plenty of non-coding efforts that you can help with us | 17:54 |
| mithro | TheAssassin: Do you know C or Python? | 17:54 |
| TheAssassin | I am a passionate pythoneer and a professional C/C++ dev | 17:54 |
| TheAssassin | I'd say... a bit | 17:54 |
| TheAssassin | also quite good at server administration and devops | 17:55 |
| mithro | TheAssassin: There is *heaps* of stuff you can do just as a C developer / Python developer without knowing FPGA stuff | 17:55 |
| TheAssassin | mithro: for example? | 17:55 |
| TheAssassin | I thought you guys were using UVC, so no driver stuff | 17:56 |
| mithro | TheAssassin: There is C firmware which runs on the soft-CPU inside the FPGA -- does things like provides the command line control interface, debug info and Ethernet stuff | 17:56 |
| mithro | TheAssassin: https://github.com/timvideos/HDMI2USB-litex-firmware/tree/master/firmware | 17:57 |
| tpb | Title: HDMI2USB-litex-firmware/firmware at master · timvideos/HDMI2USB-litex-firmware · GitHub (at github.com) | 17:57 |
| mithro | TheAssassin: If you have really good C skills, we would *love* help with improving the QEMU emulation which allows people to work on development without needing the hardware | 17:58 |
| mithro | TheAssassin: Look at these issues -> https://github.com/timvideos/HDMI2USB-litex-firmware/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3Alevel-firmware | 17:59 |
| tpb | Title: Issues · timvideos/HDMI2USB-litex-firmware · GitHub (at github.com) | 17:59 |
| mithro | TheAssassin: Most of those can be fixed with just some C code work | 17:59 |
| mithro | TheAssassin: Also, the cheapest way to get hardware is to contribute to the project enough that I'm confident sending you hardware is a good investment for me :-) | 18:01 |
| cr1901_modern | mithro: https://github.com/timvideos/HDMI2USB-litex-firmware/issues/383 Looking at this, are you open to feedback? | 18:01 |
| tpb | Title: Replace hdmi_in0.c with template thing · Issue #383 · timvideos/HDMI2USB-litex-firmware · GitHub (at github.com) | 18:01 |
| mithro | cr1901_modern: Sure, I reserve the right to ignore your feedback :-P | 18:02 |
| cr1901_modern | mithro: Of course. My biased opinion is that you should _really_ use m4 or pyexpander for generating source from templates. | 18:02 |
| mithro | cr1901_modern: I would probably use jinja2 | 18:03 |
| cr1901_modern | I've never used jinja, tbh | 18:03 |
| cr1901_modern | Well, not conciously | 18:03 |
| cr1901_modern | I just can't pass up an opportunity to promote m4 since I tend to use it in places I really shouldn't | 18:05 |
| mithro | m4 isn't really all that well known - I would say django/jinja2 templates are | 18:05 |
| TheAssassin | re | 18:12 |
| TheAssassin | I'll check a few of these issues | 18:12 |
| TheAssassin | but until I have some hardware... :) | 18:13 |
| TheAssassin | cr1901_modern: m4 is the last format you should ever use | 18:13 |
| TheAssassin | I prefer to use string concatenation... | 18:13 |
| TheAssassin | mithro: jinja2 is awesome | 18:14 |
| TheAssassin | although Python's internal templating engine works well for a lot of stuff already | 18:14 |
| cr1901_modern | TheAssassin: I dunno, it's served me well many times for generating lots of C constants and stuff :3 | 18:14 |
| TheAssassin | cr1901_modern: with M4 it's like with haskell... once you understand it it's pretty easy | 18:15 |
| TheAssassin | however, getting into it is super hard | 18:15 |
| TheAssassin | and takes a _lot_ of time | 18:15 |
| TheAssassin | jinja2 however is very readable, easy to use, and the syntax is used across a lot of other systems and is widely used | 18:16 |
| TheAssassin | mithro: how can you need 42 commits for DHCP :P | 18:16 |
| mithro | TheAssassin: You can do a lot of those without real hardware just using the QEMU emulation | 18:16 |
| mithro | TheAssassin: And I'm sure that CarlFK is happy to help test things | 18:17 |
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| TheAssassin | mithro: well atm I'm stuck in a dilemma... either insist on 1080p and get some of these cheap lowend commercial thingies which aren't really good quality wise and also provide only some shittily compressed stream, or give hdmi2usb a try and risk being stuck at 720p for a while | 18:19 |
| TheAssassin | if I'd go for the latter option, I'd surely get an atlys board, though | 18:19 |
| TheAssassin | 500 bucks to get into an open source project, that's just too much atm | 18:20 |
| TheAssassin | I'm planning to begin with my masters degree in october, and I need to save some money for this phase, too | 18:20 |
| mithro | TheAssassin: As I said, do some dev work, get free hardware -- or convince others to do dev work and borrow their hardware | 18:22 |
| TheAssassin | I'll come back to it, mithro | 18:23 |
| TheAssassin | this month, my calendar is filled to the maximum, but I'll check it out in June or so | 18:23 |
| cr1901_modern | TheAssassin: ymmv, but m4 was a lot easier for me to learn than Haskell. I don't think I'd ever call Haskell easy, (and related to the "monads are pipes" fiasco on birdsite, I think ppl should stop trying to make hard things easy.) | 18:23 |
| TheAssassin | cr1901_modern: check out http://jinja.pocoo.org/docs/2.10/templates/ | 18:24 |
| tpb | Title: Template Designer Documentation Jinja2 Documentation (2.10) (at jinja.pocoo.org) | 18:24 |
| TheAssassin | you'll feel comfortable with the syntax immediately | 18:24 |
| mithro | cr1901_modern: Most things are a lot easier then haskell | 18:28 |
| TheAssassin | just found https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqYBcZzMPGQ, I'll watch that now | 18:28 |
| TheAssassin | mithro: is there some wiki page on how to configure qemu for debugging? | 19:07 |
| CarlFK | back | 19:08 |
| TheAssassin | wb CarlFK | 19:08 |
| CarlFK | TheAssassin: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/hdmi2usb/8TiS_Gdrx-k Limited QEmu emulation support for HDMI2USB gateware | 19:16 |
| tpb | Title: Google Groups (at groups.google.com) | 19:16 |
| TheAssassin | uuuuuugh google | 19:16 |
| TheAssassin | :) | 19:16 |
| CarlFK | there might/should be a wiki page | 19:16 |
| mithro | TheAssassin: Also http://j.mp/pre-fpga-lca2018 | 19:16 |
| TheAssassin | yeah | 19:16 |
| tpb | Title: FPGA Miniconf Set Up Instructions - Google Docs (at j.mp) | 19:16 |
| TheAssassin | r u fucking kidding me? 50G of free disk space? holy shit | 19:25 |
| mithro | TheAssassin: If you are not doing anything based on the FPGA you can skip that part | 19:27 |
| thaytan | TheAssassin, that's mostly because of the Xilinx tools IIRC | 19:27 |
| TheAssassin | atm "trying" to create an account... | 19:28 |
| thaytan | 16GB to download, 16GB to unpack it into, 16GB for it to install itself | 19:28 |
| TheAssassin | those web security noobs use the HTTP Referer header for XSRF protection | 19:28 |
| TheAssassin | which is technically a bad idea | 19:28 |
| TheAssassin | thaytan: which of these packages do I need? the HLx all in one thingy? the "lab edition"? | 19:30 |
| TheAssassin | wth is that "US government export approval" | 19:32 |
| *** shaharyar has joined #timvideos | 19:33 | |
| TheAssassin | ... this stuff doesn't work | 19:35 |
| CarlFK | TheAssassin: I don't think you need any of it | 19:42 |
| TheAssassin | it's really a badly designed website though | 19:43 |
| CarlFK | woo, jenkins is telling me stuff: /home/juser/ck_version.py: Permission denied | 19:44 |
| CarlFK | so what is the right way to fix that? | 19:45 |
| TheAssassin | CarlFK: wild guess? chmod +x | 19:46 |
| TheAssassin | or adduser <jenkins> juser | 19:47 |
| *** shaharyar has quit IRC | 19:57 | |
| CarlFK | PermissionError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/dev/ttyACM0' | 20:20 |
| CarlFK | Im guessing there is a group I should add the jenkins user to | 20:20 |
| CarlFK | dialout or plugdev | 20:21 |
| TheAssassin | CarlFK: dialout | 20:32 |
| TheAssassin | although I wonder why it needs a TTY | 20:32 |
| TheAssassin | ah, wait, that's the board I/O | 20:32 |
| TheAssassin | I see | 20:32 |
| CarlFK | ight | 20:32 |
| CarlFK | right | 20:32 |
| TheAssassin | can you ls -al /dev/ttyACM0 | 20:32 |
| TheAssassin | then you'll see which group | 20:32 |
| CarlFK | crw-rw---- 1 root video 166, 0 Apr 30 14:30 /dev/ttyACM0 | 20:32 |
| CarlFK | video?!! | 20:32 |
| TheAssassin | I don't know whether you should install mithro's PPA udev package | 20:33 |
| CarlFK | woot! test ran! | 20:35 |
| CarlFK | and failed. which was expected. | 20:35 |
| TheAssassin | devops, huh | 20:35 |
| TheAssassin | urgh | 20:37 |
| TheAssassin | I need to build qemu | 20:37 |
| CarlFK | oh look, new build. flashing... | 20:47 |
| TheAssassin | mithro: https://paste.assassinate-you.net/pyxmenvr1/7y2xt7 | 20:52 |
| TheAssassin | stuck for ~20 minutes | 20:52 |
| tpb | Title: Sticky Notes (at paste.assassinate-you.net) | 20:52 |
| CarlFK | TheAssassin: is your lan on uIP init done with ip 192.168.100.x? | 20:55 |
| CarlFK | er.. pasted too much. | 20:55 |
| TheAssassin | CarlFK: that's the QEMU VM's output, that subnet is not occupied around here, so it should work | 20:55 |
| CarlFK | you may need to configure something to talk to that subnet | 20:56 |
| CarlFK | woot, green dot! | 21:31 |
| *** TheAssassin has quit IRC | 22:16 | |
| *** TheAssassin has joined #timvideos | 22:16 | |
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