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| shenki | mithro: hello | 02:29 |
|---|---|---|
| mithro | andi-m: time plans? | 02:35 |
| mithro | shenki: heyo | 02:35 |
| shenki | mithro: are you going to submit a talk about the project to lca? | 02:35 |
| mithro | shenki: Probably not | 02:35 |
| shenki | mithro: nothing to talk about? or can't be bothered? | 02:36 |
| mithro | not enough time | 02:36 |
| shenki | would you like to do one together? | 02:36 |
| Joelw | Isn't it a 45 minute slot? | 02:37 |
| shenki | Joelw: yes | 02:38 |
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| mithro | shenki / tija: I wrote a triple buffer arbiter over the weekend - when I finally figured out the correct approach it turned out to be pretty easy | 03:05 |
| tija | mitrho: in VHDL? | 03:05 |
| mithro | yes | 03:05 |
| tija | mirthro: If my understanding of triple buffer is correct then if we implement triple buffer, we will get frame rate of 40 frames per second | 03:07 |
| shenki | tija: you mentioned you got 30 fps on friday | 03:10 |
| shenki | tija: can you explain to us how you achived that? | 03:10 |
| tija | shenki: yes, I pipelined read and write. So now instead of two only one frame is dropped | 03:11 |
| tija | shenki: encoder fires as soon as 8 lines are written into DDR | 03:11 |
| shenki | cool | 03:16 |
| shenki | tija: do you need a triple-buffer scheme? Or will two buffers be enough? | 03:17 |
| tija | shenki: triple buffer ensures that there is one frame to read from always. So it will give us a frame rate of 40 fps which is the max fps of encoder. | 03:19 |
| shenki | tija: okay. i do not understand what the third buffer provides us, can you explain why we need three and not just two? | 03:20 |
| tija | shenki: in double buffer, one buffer is written to and one buffer is read from. If reading is done and writing is not complete, encoder has to wait. But triple buffer has one buffer always ready to be read from. | 03:21 |
| shenki | okay. but you only need to wait for 8 lines to be ready, you don't need to wait for the entire buffer to be done | 03:32 |
| tija | shenki: oh yeah, in that case double buffer should suffice | 03:41 |
| tija | shenki:VC? | 03:47 |
| shenki | tija: yep, you read my mind | 03:47 |
| shenki | i'll be on in a sec | 03:47 |
| shenki | tija: ok, im in | 03:48 |
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| shenki | mithro: hey, what kind of fitbit do you have? | 04:26 |
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| tija | mithro: I have given you edit permission for this doc. | 04:31 |
| tija | https://docs.google.com/a/mithis.com/document/d/19XB1AOZMp5Tr-nKEmX8CSuChd6O11wmKfwKc1nsk4OA/edit# | 04:31 |
| tpb | Title: Debug Design - Google Docs (at docs.google.com) | 04:31 |
| tija | shenki: CAn you give me video samples of the kind of video we will be streaming using HDMI2USB. It will be useful to test the size of encoded frames. | 04:41 |
| shenki | tija: good idea | 04:41 |
| shenki | tija: there are two kinds of input, one would be presentation slides, the other is an image of a person standing at the front of a room | 04:42 |
| shenki | tija: so for the presentation, go to slideshare and find a slide deck that looks interesting | 04:43 |
| shenki | for the person, that's a bit harder. we can't just take an existing conference recording, as they have been scaled to a very low resolution | 04:43 |
| tija | shenki: okay. So the presentation and the video of person will be muxed or input via the two HDMI ports? | 04:46 |
| tija | shenki: I mean we will use two hdmi input ports or one? | 04:47 |
| shenki | tija: that's a good question for mithro. the way i understood it, for now, we would have two different HDMI2USB devices - one for each input stream | 04:47 |
| shenki | just he one, afaik | 04:47 |
| mithro | https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1crkdqukOAV9Alq9BOMFucDmwc_HD6qnJ4OF5MJpkrLg/pub?w=960&h=720 | 04:48 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/+zKt> (at docs.google.com) | 04:48 |
| shenki | mmm hot pink diagrams | 04:49 |
| tija | okay. | 04:49 |
| mithro | at the front, the two inputs could be used (IE a presenter laptop and a demo reel) | 04:53 |
| andi-m | mithro: i watched one of your talks, where you said you plan to create own pcb's some day | 04:55 |
| mithro | andi-m: yes, the first round of PCBs have been produced and are currently being assembled for bring up (arrived last week) | 04:56 |
| andi-m | is there some additional information available about this pcb's some where in the web? | 05:00 |
| shenki | andi-m: mithro could answer that in detail, but in short the design is similar to the digilent dev board we have; DDR, Spartan 6 FPGA, Cypress FX2 USB, and HDMI i/o | 05:04 |
| mithro | andi-m: will hopefully have more information in the near future | 05:05 |
| shenki | in addition, there are things like a power monitoring IC that weren't present on the dev board that we've added | 05:05 |
| shenki | mithro: hows the bringup going? | 05:05 |
| mithro | andi-m: there will be two versions, a budget one with cust reduced as much as possible, and a high end one which has extra functionality to make the device better for conference usage | 05:05 |
| shenki | s/cust/cost/ | 05:06 |
| mithro | shenki: they were waiting on parts to get through customs last I heard. | 05:06 |
| shenki | ok | 05:06 |
| shenki | exciting | 05:06 |
| mithro | basic should be roughly - 2 x HDMI input, 2 x HDMI output - Spartan 6, DDR Mem, Cypress FX2 USB | 05:07 |
| mithro | advanced - 2 x DVI input, 2 x DVI output - Spartan 6 with GTP, DDR Mem, Cypress FX2, Atlys compatible VHDCI, GTP in/out on a DVI connector (possibility of 1080p and other high speed signals), PMIC for power monitoring + RS422 and RS232 serial ports + IR remote control, power from -48V<->+48V | 05:09 |
| andi-m | we currently search a better alternative for the ethernet framegrabber we use at the moment | 05:21 |
| mithro | andi-m: do you have an Atlys board? | 05:25 |
| andi-m | no, not yet. | 05:25 |
| mithro | andi-m: I'd recommend getting one if you are interested in helping to improve this space | 05:25 |
| mithro | the big difference we have is that we can actually improve debugability | 05:28 |
| shenki | andi-m: what frame rates and resolutions are you grabbing? | 05:30 |
| andi-m | it allways depends... I prefer something that can handle 1080p60 | 05:37 |
| andi-m | it doesn't matter if every frame gets transfered to the recording, but the signal shouldn't confuse the device | 05:38 |
| mithro | 1920x1080@60Hz is 3,981Mbits raw | 05:39 |
| mithro | andi-m: have you found any issues with things being marginal at that resolution? | 05:39 |
| andi-m | i don't understand this questions | 05:40 |
| andi-m | -s | 05:40 |
| mithro | andi-m: The higher the resolution, the better quality things like cables, senders and receivers have to be | 05:40 |
| mithro | andi-m: I've found that dropping to 720p increases the reliability without decreasing any noticable quality | 05:41 |
| mithro | andi-m: specially in things like conference venues where you don't control anything really | 05:41 |
| andi-m | the problem is that the projector production resolution is often 1080p, and we can't controll that | 05:42 |
| andi-m | the cables where dvi over fiber adapters, last year | 05:43 |
| mithro | andi-m: btw - are you C3 or some other group? | 05:43 |
| andi-m | but of cause our smaller events, don't all have such requirements | 05:43 |
| andi-m | mithro: ccc, yes | 05:43 |
| mithro | DVI over fiber is not something we can afford :) | 05:44 |
| shenki | it's just sand? | 05:44 |
| andi-m | the building operator (cch hamburg) just included them in last year | 05:45 |
| mithro | nor something I'd be willing to trust to running around a room which didn't have it permanently installed. Too easy to accidently crush. | 05:45 |
| shenki | i think there's a decent amount of development between where we're at and 1080p@60 fps | 05:45 |
| shenki | with recent improvements 1080p@15 fps should be doable, from a DSP point of view | 05:45 |
| shenki | im not sure if we're there on the analog side though, are we mithro? | 05:46 |
| andi-m | there are also some quite nice dvi over 2x cat6 network cabel adapters | 05:46 |
| mithro | andi-m: what type of price are you talking about? and at that level why not use SDI? | 05:46 |
| andi-m | for our camera connections whe use sdi | 05:46 |
| mithro | ha :) | 05:46 |
| andi-m | mithro: I don't know how expensive this cables are, the building operator just lent them for us | 05:47 |
| mithro | andi-m: I meant the converters | 05:47 |
| andi-m | starting from 30 euros | 05:47 |
| mithro | andi-m: and you've found the reliable? | 05:48 |
| andi-m | it depends... ;-) | 05:48 |
| andi-m | the problem is allways if you allow the speakers to bring there own notebooks... | 05:48 |
| andi-m | that the resolutions changes and so on. | 05:49 |
| mithro | yes, we work in places where they always bring their own notebooks | 05:49 |
| andi-m | but for connectiong a camera, or after a scaler or seamless switcher they should work quite reliable | 05:49 |
| andi-m | back to your fpga board: | 05:51 |
| andi-m | do you redirect the edid data from the projector to the presenter notebook? | 05:52 |
| mithro | andi-m: we have complete control over the EDID | 05:52 |
| mithro | andi-m: we can present whatever EDID you want | 05:52 |
| andi-m | also at the projector side? | 05:52 |
| shenki | on both sides | 05:53 |
| andi-m | ah, great. | 05:53 |
| mithro | andi-m: we can read the EDID data from the sink and then present whatever we want to the source | 05:53 |
| andi-m | we currently can only controll the direction from the framegrabber to the presenter notebook | 05:53 |
| andi-m | but this means you have to create indvidual edid files for nearly every projector | 05:54 |
| mithro | andi-m: When things are working correctly we present just 1 resolution 1024x768@60Hz in DVI mode (or 720p@30Hz if in HDMI mode) | 05:54 |
| andi-m | espacially you want correct aspect ration for 16:9 slides | 05:54 |
| shenki | mithro: do we do filtering, or just display a hardcoded edid? | 05:58 |
| mithro | andi-m: If the projector is projecting 1024x768@60Hz as 16:9 then there isn't much we can do about it because operating systems don't reliably support non-square pixels. | 05:58 |
| mithro | shenki: We originally did filtering, but it turns out to be a bad idea because it means your EDID data changes when you plug in a monitor (plus what do you do with two monitors with different modes) | 05:59 |
| andi-m | i used the 720p ony edid profile last time and got some complaints that some people were not able to activate display mirroring, as their internal display was not able to do 720... | 05:59 |
| mithro | andi-m: Macs? | 06:00 |
| andi-m | no, linux | 06:00 |
| mithro | andi-m: I've not seen that problem, but then I try and avoid Nvidia chipsets which have stupid restrictions | 06:01 |
| andi-m | so, i will go to downtown now. its now 8 a.m. in germany... ;-) | 06:01 |
| andi-m | see you later | 06:01 |
| shenki | see ya | 06:02 |
| shenki | hrm, i wonder what the correct thing to do when the device doesn't do 720p is | 06:04 |
| shenki | the sledgehammer would be to fallback to 4:3 | 06:04 |
| shenki | but that's not awesome for people with wide slides | 06:05 |
| shenki | i wonder what the resolution of those devices was | 06:05 |
| mithro | shenki: there are a bunch of simple algorithms for scaling / fitting | 06:06 |
| shenki | mithro: mmm, but what do you pick? | 06:07 |
| mithro | that is the hard part :) | 06:08 |
| shenki | yeah | 06:08 |
| mithro | black-borders is the safest choice | 06:08 |
| shenki | yeah | 06:09 |
| mithro | https://c3voc.de/wiki/shopping:framegrabber-alternativen | 06:10 |
| tpb | Title: Framegrabber Alternativen [CCC VOC] (at c3voc.de) | 06:10 |
| mithro | We need a project to harden the EDID controller too | 06:11 |
| shenki | in our system? | 06:11 |
| shenki | perhaps we should have our EDID device fuzz the presenters laptop | 06:12 |
| mithro | ha | 06:12 |
| shenki | only if it doesn't crash are they allowed to continue presenting | 06:12 |
| mithro | https://docs.google.com/a/mithis.com/document/d/19XB1AOZMp5Tr-nKEmX8CSuChd6O11wmKfwKc1nsk4OA/edit#heading=h.2eu543btsrj1 | 06:14 |
| tpb | Title: Debug Design - Google Docs (at docs.google.com) | 06:14 |
| shenki | Anonymous Wolf? Anonymous Tiger? | 06:15 |
| shenki | what are the docs team smoking? | 06:15 |
| mithro | one of them will be tpb bot from above | 06:15 |
| shenki | hrm, so did we decide to put a micro into the system? | 06:16 |
| mithro | shenki: no, but I think we will shortly | 06:16 |
| shenki | yeah | 06:16 |
| mithro | shenki: I don't really know enough VHDL / Verilog to know how you'd implement modules "publishing" their debug info to a common management module | 06:19 |
| mithro | but I think we'll need some type of event log / circular buffer | 06:23 |
| shenki | mithro: hrm | 06:41 |
| shenki | mithro: the way i'd design it would be to have a debug register in each module that contains some state information | 06:41 |
| shenki | mithro: and then we use the micro to read out the values of those registers and construct a log | 06:41 |
| andi-m | re | 06:51 |
| andi-m | you can simply give the presenter laptop multiple resolution via edid | 06:51 |
| andi-m | it takes the first which fits | 06:52 |
| andi-m | but i havn't understood how to generate this edid files yet. till now i use the files from ephiphans ftp server | 06:54 |
| mithro | andi-m: that doesn't work because the presenter will most definately end up choosing the wrong resolution :P | 06:54 |
| mithro | andi-m: edid.tv | 06:54 |
| andi-m | nice | 06:54 |
| mithro | andi-m: https://github.com/timvideos/edid.tv/tree/master/edid_parser | 06:54 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/:57w> (at github.com) | 06:55 |
| mithro | andi-m: a previous year's GSoC project | 06:55 |
| mithro | andi-m: we haven't really been very good and utilising it | 06:55 |
| mithro | https://github.com/timvideos/edid_grabber_c | 06:55 |
| tpb | Title: timvideos/edid_grabber_c · GitHub (at github.com) | 06:55 |
| shenki | what? that thing has a makefile that downloads curl | 06:57 |
| andi-m | if you like, you can add the files from http://www.epiphan.com/downloads/edid/ | 06:57 |
| tpb | Title: Index of ./ (at www.epiphan.com) | 06:57 |
| andi-m | the ephipan support also recommended https://ez.analog.com/docs/DOC-2143 for generating custom files | 06:58 |
| tpb | Title: Advantiv™ EDID Editor | EngineerZone (at ez.analog.com) | 06:58 |
| mithro | andi-m: can't seem to read that file... | 06:59 |
| shenki | mithro: does anyone maintain that tool? | 07:00 |
| mithro | shenki: nope | 07:01 |
| mithro | ahh, I had to remove the table header / footer | 07:01 |
| shenki | mithro: okay. do we plan on using it? | 07:02 |
| shenki | {"error": "Submittion failed!"} | 07:02 |
| mithro | shenki: I'd like to use it | 07:02 |
| shenki | $ ./bin/edid-grabber --help | 07:02 |
| shenki | {"error": "Submittion failed!"} | 07:03 |
| mithro | shenki: but its been a low priority | 07:03 |
| shenki | ok | 07:03 |
| shenki | i will fix it between kernel compiles :) | 07:03 |
| andi-m | this is eg. a custom file generated by the support, with three 16:9 resolutions: https://c3voc.de/wiki/_media/hardware:edid:customedid_16-9.edid | 07:03 |
| mithro | andi-m: http://edid.tv/edid/24/ | 07:07 |
| tpb | Title: Details - EDID.tv (at edid.tv) | 07:07 |
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| andi-m | where is detailed timings 2? | 07:08 |
| mithro | andi-m: good question :P | 07:09 |
| shenki | mithro: ok, the tool failed completely. it should be a python script on linux; no non-builtins needed and no need to force a user to build something | 07:12 |
| shenki | mithro: but pasting into the website worked | 07:12 |
| mithro | shenki: it's suppose to be a single binary you download/run | 07:13 |
| shenki | mithro: my dell monitor over VGA was prased | 07:13 |
| shenki | mithro: yeah, i think a python script is much better suited to that | 07:13 |
| mithro | EDID Grabber "Coming soon" | 07:13 |
| shenki | mithro: both from a maintainability and from a security pov | 07:13 |
| mithro | shenki: it doesn't work very well for Windows or Mac | 07:13 |
| shenki | mithro: but my LVDS panel in my x230 failed | 07:13 |
| shenki | mithro: right. so those people can sort out their own solution, but we don't need to make it fail on linux just for the sake of them | 07:14 |
| shenki | im sure windows and mac people are used to running random binaries on their system | 07:15 |
| mithro | yeah :) | 07:16 |
| shenki | mithro: should we get the same results no matter the OS? | 07:16 |
| mithro | shenki: in theory | 07:17 |
| shenki | ok | 07:17 |
| mithro | shenki: the travis-ci from edid-grabber-c was suppose to compile the binary and upload it to the website | 07:17 |
| shenki | ah okay. didn't quite get there? | 07:17 |
| mithro | not sure | 07:17 |
| mithro | been a while | 07:18 |
| mithro | https://github.com/timvideos/edid_grabber_c/blob/master/.travis.yml | 07:18 |
| tpb | Title: edid_grabber_c/.travis.yml at master · timvideos/edid_grabber_c · GitHub (at github.com) | 07:18 |
| mithro | that looks like it should all work.... | 07:19 |
| shenki | yeah, i jsut saw the same thing | 07:19 |
| mithro | https://github.com/timvideos/edid_grabber_c/blob/master/.travis.yml | 07:20 |
| tpb | Title: edid_grabber_c/.travis.yml at master · timvideos/edid_grabber_c · GitHub (at github.com) | 07:20 |
| shenki | at the end of release.sh it does this: curl -F "platform=$PLATFORM" -F "commit=$TRAVIS_COMMIT" -F "api_key=$EDID_GRABBER_UPLOAD_API_KEY" -F "release_file=@$RELEASE_FILE" http://edid.tv/api/grabber/upload/ | 07:20 |
| mithro | $ chmod +x release/release.sh && ./release/release.sh | 07:20 |
| mithro | This script runs only for timvideos/edid_grabber_c | 07:20 |
| mithro | oh, wait that is for sewar's repo | 07:21 |
| mithro | https://travis-ci.org/timvideos/edid_grabber_c/jobs/12603176 | 07:21 |
| tpb | Title: Travis CI - Free Hosted Continuous Integration Platform for the Open Source Community (at travis-ci.org) | 07:21 |
| mithro | Upload release EDID.tv | 07:21 |
| mithro | 1 | 07:21 |
| mithro | Release posted successfully. | 07:21 |
| mithro | Release uploaded to EDID.tv | 07:21 |
| shenki | ok. so we just need to add a download link? | 07:22 |
| mithro | possibly | 07:24 |
| mithro | shenki: it's probably just not been deployed | 07:25 |
| shenki | k | 07:26 |
| shenki | we need to install it on a beaglebone or raspeberry pi | 07:26 |
| shenki | and just walk around unis, workplaces and department stores plugging things in | 07:26 |
| mithro | ha :) | 07:27 |
| mithro | we should just do a PIC which pulls the EDID information into the flash | 07:27 |
| shenki | yeah, but then you need something that scrapes it and uploads to the net | 07:29 |
| mithro | shenki: but you can pull the power from the VGA/HDMI port | 07:30 |
| shenki | interesting. how much? | 07:30 |
| mithro | Between 30mA and 50mA - in theory you could do up to 150mA but most things don't really supply that much | 07:31 |
| shenki | ok | 07:34 |
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| andi-m | mithro: how did you remove the header/footer from the ephiphan files? | 08:07 |
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| mithro | vim :P | 14:15 |
| mithro | andi-m: should just make it understand that format | 14:15 |
| mithro | ayush3504: ping? | 14:15 |
| ayush3504 | mithro: yes | 14:15 |
| mithro | ayush3504: got PCBs for me to review? | 14:19 |
| ayush3504 | mithro: sure take a look, https://www.dropbox.com/s/wrw5cyt847v8fdk/Untitled3.png | 14:19 |
| tpb | Title: Dropbox - Untitled3.png (at www.dropbox.com) | 14:19 |
| ayush3504 | mithro: the pic and isolators have been moved to back side | 14:20 |
| mithro | why are there 2 isolators on the last one? | 14:24 |
| mithro | it's not one isolator per board? | 14:24 |
| ayush3504 | mithro: a pair of isolator get's shared by each slot | 14:26 |
| ayush3504 | mithro: the last two chips are 3 channel instead of 6 channel | 14:27 |
| mithro | ayush3504: why? | 14:27 |
| ayush3504 | mithro: you should take a look at the data isolation schematic | 14:28 |
| ayush3504 | mithro: it's kind of hard to explain | 14:28 |
| mithro | I'm not seeing anything pushed recently? | 14:45 |
| ayush3504 | I can see that I pushed an update 23 minutes ago | 14:46 |
| mithro | ayush3504: the data isolation schematic is not very clear | 14:55 |
| mithro | ayush3504: why haven't you named them properly? | 14:56 |
| mithro | ayush3504: it's unclear if your if your layout even makes any sense | 15:01 |
| mithro | with the current naming | 15:02 |
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| ayush3504 | mithro: sorry for replying late. If you see the hierarchical block for data isolation block it's just 15 + 15 unidirectional lines in both directions. A & B postfix tell about the voltage levels. Knowing that A & B postfixes in pin names denote voltage levels and all lines are unidirectional it should make sense. | 17:49 |
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