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| jammyjam | prologic: so when I look at the page, my first thought is "sounds like a similar problem space to twisted" - is that on the right track? | 04:32 |
|---|---|---|
| jammyjam | prologic: fwiw, I don't know about the pyconau papers committee, but I know that the LCA papers committee often turns away talks that are good and interesting that they'd like to see, but couldn't find space for. I *think* pycon-au also gets enough talks that they have to turn away good talks, so I wouldn't interpret not making the conf last year as a sign that it wasn't interesting | 04:33 |
| jammyjam | prologic: I would hope that the papers committee from last year would be able to give you feedback *cough* chrisjrn *cough* | 04:34 |
| prologic | <jammyjam> prologic: so when I look at the page, my first thought is "sounds like a similar problem space to twisted" - is that on the right track? <-- in short - yes .. similar problem space. i.e: concurrent systems, async i/o | 04:34 |
| prologic | but ofc Twisted and circuits share almost nothing alike as circuits was initially developd over 10 years ago | 04:34 |
| prologic | also jammyjam appreciate your comments | 04:35 |
| prologic | from what you've said (and a few others) I think I will submit :) | 04:35 |
| jammyjam | What's the latest version of python that twisted supports? My memory tells me it's something like 2.5, but I could be wrong | 04:36 |
| chrisjrn | PIng me in a few hours to talk about this | 04:44 |
| hawkowl | jammyjam, er | 05:05 |
| hawkowl | jammyjam, 2.7 + pypy + portions on 3.2 | 05:05 |
| hawkowl | jammyjam, (you're talking to the release manager of the latest Twisted release, 13.2 :D) | 05:05 |
| hawkowl | Twisted has test coverage on python 2.6, python 2.7, pypy and portions of py3 (mostly only twisted core) on windows, mac, debian, ubuntu and fedora | 05:06 |
| jammyjam | hawkowl: it's clearly much more up-to-date than my memories of it are | 05:07 |
| hawkowl | jammyjam, it's still going, yes :D | 05:08 |
| hawkowl | in fact, good performance on pypy is a target, even | 05:08 |
| hawkowl | pypy actually use twisted in their speed tests | 05:08 |
| hawkowl | (there is a significant pypy-twisted developer overlap) | 05:08 |
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| prologic | heh | 07:38 |
| prologic | circuits supports 2.6, 2.7, 3.2, 3.3 and pypy :) | 07:39 |
| prologic | Windows ofc is a bit crappy - only select, crappy forking (non-existent?), etc | 07:39 |
| prologic | http://t.co/cPUE6DxkI0 <-- just today Ryan Barber created this nice RPi clock with circuits ;) very impressive | 07:41 |
| tpb | Title: rasp-clock (at t.co) | 07:41 |
| hawkowl | prologic, twisted uses IOCP | 07:43 |
| hawkowl | prologic, which is crappy in itself (oh god having to write all your underlying TCP/UDP twice) | 07:43 |
| hawkowl | i should probably put in a proposal about twisted stuff, I dunno | 07:44 |
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| prologic | hawkowl, how does Twisted have to redefine tcp/ip stuff twice? | 12:09 |
| prologic | I've not really looked too deeply at it's core | 12:09 |
| prologic | but I did write a twisteedintegration for circuits allowing twisted apps and protocols to run on top of circuits (https://bitbucket.org/circuits/twistedintegration) | 12:10 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/BE7x> (at bitbucket.org) | 12:10 |
| jayvee | prologic: the fact that Twisted *still* does not support IPv6 after all these years (something that even someone as dumb as I can comprehend perfectly) does not lend towards its credibility | 12:17 |
| prologic | wow you for real? | 12:18 |
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| hawkowl | jayvee, er, no, it does support IPv6 | 14:13 |
| hawkowl | see: http://twistedmatrix.com/documents/current/api/twisted.internet.endpoints.TCP6ClientEndpoint.html | 14:14 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/BEGf> (at twistedmatrix.com) | 14:14 |
| hawkowl | prologic, certain things need to be done in the IOCP reactor + in the regular reactors | 14:14 |
| hawkowl | prologic, anything using sockets is slightly different enough that you have to keep it separate | 14:15 |
| hawkowl | different flags, that sort of thing | 14:15 |
| hawkowl | the tests are written once, it's just the reactor implementation which is a lot of subtly different because lol Microsoft code | 14:16 |
| hawkowl | i'm sure it could be done better, but the reactor isn't really changed a lot | 14:19 |
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| tchaypo | hawkowl, prologic - what I really want to see now is a combined talk from the two of you | 16:57 |
| tchaypo | talking about the broader problem space and comparing the two approaches | 16:57 |
| hawkowl | well, Twisted does much more than that problem space, to be honest | 16:57 |
| tchaypo | fight! fight! | 16:58 |
| hawkowl | rofl | 16:58 |
| hawkowl | twisted has things like AMP, twisted.mail, twisted.conch, twisted.names... | 16:58 |
| hawkowl | Twisted soonish will have the infrastructure for a DNSSEC-capable DNS server | 16:59 |
| hawkowl | (have I mentioned you can write a mail-enabled application in like 40 lines of code, too) | 16:59 |
| tchaypo | You make it sound like emacs | 17:04 |
| hawkowl | hehe | 17:05 |
| hawkowl | but with less lisp one hopes | 17:06 |
| tchaypo | Has anyone written a lisp for the python VM? | 17:07 |
| hawkowl | yes | 17:07 |
| hawkowl | http://hy.readthedocs.org/ | 17:07 |
| tpb | Title: Welcome to Hy’s documentation! hy 0.9.12 documentation (at hy.readthedocs.org) | 17:07 |
| hawkowl | "Since Hy transforms its Lisp code into the Python Abstract Syntax Tree, you have the whole beautiful world of Python at your fingertips, in Lisp form!" | 17:07 |
| hawkowl | tchaypo, if you wanted, you could probably write a lisp interpreter in rpython and use the pypy vm | 17:09 |
| hawkowl | which is what Topaz is (ruby on the pypy vm) | 17:09 |
| hawkowl | or, rather, same underlying JIT as pypy | 17:09 |
| tchaypo | I was imagining that's how it would be done. Manipulating the AST directly seems so much harder | 17:10 |
| hawkowl | well, it doesnt manipulate the ast | 17:10 |
| hawkowl | it writes ast | 17:10 |
| hawkowl | it is essentially a transcoder | 17:10 |
| hawkowl | but a slightly roundabout one | 17:11 |
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| Guest99731 | morning guys | 23:28 |
| Guest99731 | so yeah circuits's so-called reactors -- we call them pollers | 23:28 |
| Guest99731 | are exactly that, just separate components, writen once | 23:29 |
| Guest99731 | recently (last few years, releases maybe, can't exactly remember) we borrowed quite heavily from twisted reactor code to handle better many edge cases with various platforms | 23:29 |
| Guest99731 | but this is not the important bits of circuits -- they're just I/O components like any other component | 23:30 |
| Guest99731 | and yes twisted has twisted.mail, twisted.names, twisted.coudh, and lots of nice shiny protocol -- circuits only has what current and past users have used. irc, http (client and serer), lp (line protocol), websockets and not much else at this stage (we want more, but no-one's contributed/asked for more!) | 23:31 |
| Guest99731 | that being said (as I mentioned above) circuits for a year or so now can actually reuse twisted protocols as-is as well as run most twisted apps on the circuits core | 23:32 |
| Guest99731 | oh crap my nick :/ | 23:32 |
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| prologic | s/Guest99731/prologic | 23:32 |
| prologic | sorry :) | 23:33 |
| prologic | stupid FreeNode network | 23:33 |
| prologic | seems unreliable these days, lots of DDoS :/ | 23:33 |
| Zimsky | many ddos, much packet, very flood | 23:39 |
| prologic | haha | 23:39 |
| prologic | yes that's one way of putting it | 23:39 |
| prologic | it's gotten so bad that I'm planning on adding distributed support to my logging bot that logs several chanells around here | 23:39 |
| jayvee | multipath IRC | 23:44 |
| prologic | yeah precisely | 23:48 |
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