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| gevaerts | olly: that should say "submit a bug report" Can you submit a bug report about it not telling you to submit a bug report? ;) | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| olly | i'll do that after i've filed a bug for it showing up | 00:01 |
| olly | interesting - not only does it not matter what you type for the "house number" in the google code captchas, you don't need to get all the numbers in the cleaner image right | 00:05 |
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| olly | title bug is #2096 | 00:07 |
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| olly | improving the message is #2097 | 00:11 |
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| madrazr | olly: lol | 00:33 |
| madrazr | (for 2097) | 00:33 |
| madrazr | :P | 00:33 |
| madrazr | I so want to say "works as intended" :P | 00:34 |
| madrazr | just kidding :P | 00:34 |
| madrazr | olly: can you please give me the URL of the proposal? | 00:34 |
| madrazr | even PM works | 00:34 |
| olly | it's in both those tickets | 00:35 |
| madrazr | olly: oops, my fail | 00:35 |
| madrazr | I noticed that now | 00:35 |
| olly | but i suspect any proposal does the same | 00:35 |
| RaulT | olly: I can confirm the situation on my local instance | 00:39 |
| RaulT | the page name for any proposal is "No page name present bug a developer" | 00:40 |
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| s0b0lev | Hi everyone! I have an issue. I am from Kyrgyzstan and when I try to register my profile there is an error when select Kyrgyz Republic (Kyrgyzstan). As mentioned here https://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=903 the brackets are invalid characters. What should I do? | 07:38 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/BHD8> (at code.google.com) | 07:38 |
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| nikhatzi | hello ppl, i had this issue today: I had already uploaded my enrollment form and submitted a proposal. Last night i withdrew the first proposal to make another one. Now that i try to submit the new proposal, melange asks for my enrollment form again. I uploaded the form and now i can submit as many proposals as i want. Is this a bug? | 08:08 |
| nikhatzi | Maybe withdrawing the first proposal erases the enrollment form too? | 08:08 |
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| rajataggarwal_ | anyone ?? | 10:19 |
| rajataggarwal_ | i am facing problem with the site | 10:19 |
| olly | rajataggarwal_: explain your problem and wait for someone who can help | 10:20 |
| rajataggarwal_ | i submitted a proposal yesterday and now its showing that its withdrawn and it is not changing | 10:20 |
| olly | or if you can't wait, email the address given in /topic | 10:20 |
| rajataggarwal_ | and i didn't change it | 10:20 |
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| ariz | hi | 10:35 |
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| ariz | hello | 10:42 |
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| edu159 | Hi, is it possible to change my gsoc user name ? I have an ugly one from other year that do not correspond with the one I am using with the organisation I am aplying. Or at least could it be deleted and I fill the form again? Thanks | 11:58 |
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| edu159 | Hi, is it possible to change my gsoc user name ? I have an ugly one from other year that do not correspond with the one I am using with the organisation I am aplying. Or at least could it be deleted and I fill the form again? Thanks | 12:49 |
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| shrihari | How many slots is Melange expected to get, approximately? | 13:21 |
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| Strangerke|Work | Hi guys | 14:40 |
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| Gentlecat | Hey guys, you know about missing page titles on proposal pages, right? | 15:19 |
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| atit_ | Helo Everyone. I am trying to submit the proposal. But I am not able to insert an image in the content field of the proposal page. Any inputs? | 15:57 |
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| atit_ | Helo Everyone. I am trying to submit the proposal. But I am not able to insert an image in the content field of the proposal page. Any inputs? | 16:19 |
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| saurav1992_ | I am getting 'No page name present, Bug a developer' as the title on my submitted proposal page. Is it okay? | 16:45 |
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| lionaneesh | gitanshu: Hey :) | 17:15 |
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| ariz | hello | 17:15 |
| ariz | hi everyone | 17:16 |
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| rvraghav93 | when i search previous year projects why is the search by name case sensitive ? | 17:20 |
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| ariz_ | i am planning to apply for gsoc 2014, but i have never made any contribution to melange or any other open source org. i am new to open source development..is it necessary to have made some to apply? | 17:20 |
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| gitanshu | @ariz_ you can start now by going to getting started page | 17:22 |
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| atit | Hii Everyone. I have been trying to submit my proposal. But I am not able to insert image in the content section of the proposal page. Any inputs? | 19:32 |
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| shikher | madrazr: hi. can u help me understand why viewing proposal history would be beneficial? | 19:48 |
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| madrazr | shikher: same reason as why version history would be extremely useful in source code management | 20:47 |
| madrazr | Google Docs etc | 20:47 |
| madrazr | shikher: to give a more concrete example | 20:47 |
| madrazr | shikher: Let's say you are a student and I am a mentor | 20:48 |
| madrazr | shikher: you sent a proposal to us which is like Steve Yegge's rant :P | 20:48 |
| madrazr | 5000 words minimum :P | 20:48 |
| madrazr | shikher: I read the entire proposal and make suggestions about parts of the proposal that has to change | 20:49 |
| madrazr | shikher: you go and change the proposal now | 20:49 |
| madrazr | shikher: do I have to read all the 5000 words again? Spending like several days to read it again? | 20:49 |
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| madrazr | shikher: arguably, we may not need the entire history | 20:50 |
| madrazr | shikher: what we may really want is the diff between 2 specific versions | 20:51 |
| shikher | madrazr: thanks for the detailed insight | 20:51 |
| madrazr | shikher: but the induction logic holds | 20:51 |
| madrazr | if you can do it for n versions, you can generalize it to n+1 | 20:52 |
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| shikher | madrazr: sorry got disconnected. what do u mean by the induction logic? | 22:01 |
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| shikher | madrazr: I would also like to discuss how do Melange lists load data. | 22:10 |
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| RaulT | madrazr: I heard so much talk about showing the difereces between proposals | 22:32 |
| RaulT | madrazr: And my question is : are more versions of the proposal ? | 22:32 |
| RaulT | necessary * | 22:33 |
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| shikher | RaulT: are u asking wat is the need for keeping track of revisions in proposals. | 22:34 |
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| RaulT | madrazr: Yes. I mean the added complexity of a revision system | 22:35 |
| RaulT | madrazr: Is really necessary ,? | 22:35 |
| shikher | RaulT: its shikher here, not madrazr :P | 22:35 |
| RaulT | shikher: Sorry :"> | 22:36 |
| RaulT | shikher: So what I want to ask is do we need al the functionality provided by a versioning system | 22:37 |
| RaulT | shikher: Or the needer result can be achieved by implementing something more simpler ? | 22:37 |
| shikher | RaulT: i just had this conversation with madrazr. Have a look at the logs | 22:37 |
| shikher | RaulT: wat do u propose as simple? | 22:38 |
| RaulT | shikher: a simple diff between texts that should highlight added or modified lines ? | 22:38 |
| shikher | RaulT: tht is wat the current versioning system would do, in my interpretation. | 22:39 |
| RaulT | shikher: Yes but to print the diff between 2 textes should do | 22:40 |
| RaulT | shikher: There is no need to implement a full versioning system for something that can be done very simple | 22:40 |
| shikher | RaulT: well tht depends on how you interpret versioning system | 22:41 |
| shikher | wat extra things does ur versioning system do tht is not needed? | 22:41 |
| RaulT | shikher: My question is do you need to see all the chages or just the changes due to the last modification | 22:42 |
| RaulT | because if you need the later you could use this http://docs.python.org/2/library/difflib.html | 22:42 |
| tpb | Title: 7.4. difflib — Helpers for computing deltas Python v2.7.6 documentation (at docs.python.org) | 22:42 |
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| shikher | madrazr: well it would be a more flexible option if we can diff b/w any two proposals | 22:45 |
| RaulT | shikher: I agree that it would be more flexible , but do we need that flexibility ? | 22:47 |
| RaulT | shikher: What purpose would a full history of a proposal serve ? | 22:47 |
| RaulT | shikher: Well considering the student dosen't spam the submit button | 22:48 |
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| RaulT | and adds a new proposal every second | 22:48 |
| RaulT | shikher: If we implement something like a "save" button and "submit for review" button | 22:48 |
| RaulT | shikher: The need for an extensive history will be diminished | 22:49 |
| shikher | RaulT: once again please read the discussion that madrazr had with me. It mentions the point with an example on why we need to diff b/w any 2 revisions. | 22:49 |
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| RaulT | shikher: I went through the discution. | 22:53 |
| RaulT | shikher: And I see your point. | 23:03 |
| shikher | RaulT: cool ! In my project proposal | 23:04 |
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| shikher | I have mentioned that I would try to work on making it for any two revisions, but I also had the same confusion as you. Hence, the reason for my discussion with madhu. | 23:05 |
| madrazr | shikher: if n0 is true and if n is true, then n + 1 is true :) | 23:07 |
| madrazr | shikher: what would you like to know about the lists? | 23:07 |
| shikher | madrazr: of course i understand wat induction is. :) wat i meant was , wat was ur reference to the diff problem? | 23:08 |
| shikher | madrazr: I beleive all data is loaded at once, causing lists to be slow. | 23:09 |
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| madrazr | shikher: small correction "flexible option if we can diff b/w any two proposals" | 23:09 |
| madrazr | is any two different versions of the *same* proposal | 23:10 |
| madrazr | we don't want to diff any two arbitrary proposals | 23:10 |
| shikher | would it not be better if we were to load lists page by page. This would require latency due to making queries everytime but fetching would be much more quicker. | 23:10 |
| shikher | madrazr: yes i meant for same proposal | 23:10 |
| madrazr | shikher: induction thing: that was the extension of my application | 23:11 |
| madrazr | if you implement something that can diff 2 consecutive revisions | 23:12 |
| madrazr | you can as well extend it relatively easily to diff between any two revisions, not necessarily consecutive 2 | 23:12 |
| shikher | madrazr: got it. | 23:12 |
| madrazr | *oops that was the extension of my explanation ~~application ~~ | 23:12 |
| madrazr | shikher: all data is *NOT* loaded at once that's what causes the lists to be slow :) | 23:13 |
| madrazr | shikher: paging is a territory we have explored | 23:14 |
| madrazr | but sadly all pages cannot be page divided for not entirely technical reasons | 23:14 |
| madrazr | but social reasons | 23:14 |
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| shikher | madrazr: oh! so 50 entities are fetched and every time we go back or front on a page, 50 more are fetched? | 23:14 |
| madrazr | shikher: for the list of accepted projects we announce on April 21st | 23:15 |
| madrazr | no single student wants to be on page 2 | 23:15 |
| madrazr | not even one :) | 23:15 |
| madrazr | this has happened time and again in last 5 years of existence of Melange | 23:15 |
| shikher | madrazr: :D | 23:15 |
| madrazr | shikher: apparently all the 1000+ students want to be on the front page of the news | 23:16 |
| madrazr | shikher: that adds up to the problem | 23:16 |
| madrazr | shikher: the batch size is configurable | 23:17 |
| madrazr | shikher: our default batch fetch size is 150 rows and we use default for most lists | 23:17 |
| madrazr | shikher: for some lists we make it smaller | 23:17 |
| madrazr | the factors we use to determine batch size is | 23:17 |
| madrazr | the size of the JSON data generated in bytes. For a long time App Engine allowed only 1MB in an HTTP request or response. God save App Engine they increased it to 32MB recently. | 23:18 |
| madrazr | shikher: and the time it takes to build the rows | 23:18 |
| madrazr | shikher: references in App Engine is slow | 23:18 |
| madrazr | friggin slow | 23:18 |
| madrazr | shikher: and App Engine requests had a limitation of 30 secs per request | 23:19 |
| madrazr | recently upped to 60 secs | 23:19 |
| madrazr | so we had to return a response with in 30 secs (now 60 secs) | 23:19 |
| madrazr | *within | 23:20 |
| madrazr | shikher: so if we had rows where we had to display data from referenced entities | 23:20 |
| madrazr | like a list of student proposals | 23:20 |
| madrazr | where we also need to display the student name | 23:20 |
| madrazr | which is a reference to the profile entity | 23:21 |
| madrazr | and may be something else that we stored in student info entity | 23:21 |
| madrazr | per proposal row in the list | 23:21 |
| madrazr | and if we had to this for every row | 23:21 |
| madrazr | we are in luck :P | 23:21 |
| madrazr | *where we also needed to | 23:22 |
| madrazr | RaulT: sorry, I got distracted | 23:22 |
| madrazr | RaulT: but most of your answers are already answered in the logs you read I guess? | 23:23 |
| madrazr | RaulT: also to emphasize again | 23:23 |
| RaulT | madrazr: No problem! I sorted it out with help from shikher | 23:23 |
| madrazr | No! We are not planning to write git from scratch as a Melange module ;-) | 23:23 |
| madrazr | RaulT: ^ :D | 23:23 |
| madrazr | RaulT: all we want is basic diffing between any two versions of the proposals | 23:23 |
| RaulT | madrazr: The core of my question is "Are the benefits of adding a full history to a proposal outweigh the trouble that comes with maintainig that history and computing it ?" | 23:24 |
| RaulT | madrazr: And from what I have read the "diff" feature is very helpfull and should be implemented | 23:25 |
| madrazr | RaulT: that is already answered I guess? | 23:25 |
| madrazr | RaulT: the answer is yes! | 23:25 |
| RaulT | madrazr: I understand now. Thanks :D | 23:25 |
| madrazr | RaulT: Linus recently made a post about how he hacked git file format for subsurface | 23:26 |
| madrazr | would be interesting to explore that territory | 23:26 |
| madrazr | but | 23:26 |
| madrazr | but | 23:26 |
| madrazr | keep in mind, I am just throwing ideas | 23:26 |
| madrazr | this may not even be possible | 23:27 |
| shikher | madrazr: ok. so lists basically have no chance of improving unless GAE improves on the latency for referenced queries. | 23:28 |
| madrazr | shikher: you make me depressed | 23:28 |
| madrazr | :) | 23:28 |
| madrazr | I had so much hopes that there would be some ninja student who would be willing to fix lists for us | 23:28 |
| madrazr | :) | 23:28 |
| shikher | madrazr: well, don't be disappointed. this idea is definitely on my proposal, and hence the reason for this discussion. | 23:30 |
| madrazr | shikher: cool! | 23:30 |
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| shikher | madrazr: only if u would hve reviewed my proposal ideas, u wud know. :) | 23:31 |
| shikher | madrazr: do u have any ideas about how to make it faster? this is a direct question bcz u must have given it more thought than me. | 23:33 |
| madrazr | shikher: thank you. But who knows, that would have depressed me more? :P | 23:35 |
| madrazr | Ignorance is bliss sometimes they say :P | 23:35 |
| madrazr | shikher: I have been proposing certain things from a while | 23:36 |
| shikher | madrazr: wat is the context for the above comments? | 23:36 |
| madrazr | but there are two problems here | 23:36 |
| madrazr | shikher: context: (04:31:49 PM) shikher: madrazr: only if u would hve reviewed my proposal ideas, u wud know. :) | 23:36 |
| madrazr | shikher: the first problem is anything we are going to do to make the lists faster we are going to introduce some feature regression | 23:36 |
| shikher | madrazr: oooohh! | 23:37 |
| madrazr | shikher: second problem is, I have had no time to put my thoughts into a proof of concept | 23:37 |
| madrazr | shikher: about the first, while we definitely do not want to introduce a great deal of regressions for performance | 23:38 |
| madrazr | there are certain things we can trade-off IMO | 23:38 |
| madrazr | shikher: for example | 23:38 |
| madrazr | shikher: the current lists have awesome column based search functionality | 23:39 |
| madrazr | it is really nice and works pretty well | 23:39 |
| madrazr | shikher: but in order to accomplish that we have to do client side search | 23:39 |
| madrazr | for which we need to get all the data to the client before we can search | 23:39 |
| madrazr | shikher: by search I also mean filtering | 23:39 |
| shikher | yes | 23:40 |
| madrazr | shikher: I think it is reasonable to do something like GMail does for search | 23:40 |
| madrazr | what is GMail? | 23:40 |
| madrazr | If you think about it, it is just a giant list right? | 23:40 |
| madrazr | and that search has worked really well | 23:41 |
| madrazr | so we should be able to do something like that IMO | 23:41 |
| shikher | ya in a way. in a sense all data is. | 23:41 |
| madrazr | a single search box for the list | 23:41 |
| madrazr | and we do server side search/filtering | 23:42 |
| shikher | ok | 23:42 |
| madrazr | shikher: paging can be introduced for all the pages other than "Accepted Student Projects" list and "Participating Organizations" list | 23:42 |
| madrazr | shikher: also multi-column sort is another useful feature of our current list | 23:43 |
| madrazr | shikher: we should explore the territory of server side sorting it | 23:43 |
| shikher | yes. bcz they require a lot of loading of data. | 23:44 |
| madrazr | shikher: right | 23:44 |
| madrazr | but that is also annoying | 23:44 |
| madrazr | every time I go and look at Carol's list of all the participating students | 23:44 |
| madrazr | and mentors/org admins | 23:44 |
| shikher | so wat i propose is we make lists static for the 2 lists mentioned above, and have a similar search bar as shown in lists which wud do server side search? | 23:44 |
| madrazr | I feel like OMG! How does she even bear with this | 23:45 |
| shikher | madrazr: approx. how much time does it take? | 23:45 |
| madrazr | shikher: what is "it"? | 23:45 |
| shikher | madrazr: loading of participating students list | 23:46 |
| madrazr | shikher: I don't have measured data | 23:46 |
| madrazr | but it is in the ballpark of couple of minutes | 23:46 |
| madrazr | and note | 23:47 |
| madrazr | the problem with current list is | 23:47 |
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| madrazr | if you click on a row | 23:47 |
| madrazr | and realize that you clicked on a wrong row | 23:47 |
| madrazr | and click the browser's back button | 23:47 |
| shikher | madrazr: haha! | 23:47 |
| madrazr | you have to sit and wait for next few mins again | 23:47 |
| madrazr | shikher: I know right | 23:47 |
| madrazr | it is a joke | 23:47 |
| madrazr | :P | 23:47 |
| shikher | so wat i propose is we make lists static for the 2 lists mentioned above, and have a similar search bar as shown in lists which wud do server side search? | 23:48 |
| madrazr | making list static is not entirely possible | 23:48 |
| shikher | by static I mean, one time load. not paging. | 23:48 |
| madrazr | students and participating orgs can update their data through out the program | 23:48 |
| madrazr | making it static after the program ends is possible | 23:48 |
| madrazr | but at that point the optimization is anyway not relevant because not many people use those lists anymore | 23:49 |
| shikher | yes. true. | 23:49 |
| madrazr | Aruna, our last year GSoC student worked on caching the lists | 23:49 |
| madrazr | shikher: he implemented pretty sophisticated techniques | 23:49 |
| shikher | yes. Aruna Herath | 23:49 |
| madrazr | shikher: as to deciding when to invalidate the cache and things | 23:50 |
| madrazr | shikher: however, I am not entirely sure how much of his work has made it into master yet | 23:50 |
| shikher | madrazr: how about making parallel requests? | 23:50 |
| madrazr | shikher: I would ask him or Nathaniel about it (but remember don't ping any one personally, always CC the list) | 23:50 |
| madrazr | shikher: what is parallel? :) | 23:51 |
| shikher | mutilplexing? | 23:51 |
| madrazr | shikher: elaborate please? | 23:51 |
| shikher | since we have to wait for the request to be completed by GAE, if it is a huge request and sometimes takes upto 2 mins as u said. | 23:52 |
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| madrazr | single request cannot last for 2 mins anyway | 23:52 |
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| shikher | but the small requests must be sent synchronously? | 23:53 |
| shikher | currently? | 23:53 |
| shikher | by parallel i meant, is it possible to send asynchronous requests? | 23:53 |
| madrazr | shikher: come on, we are not that dumb | 23:54 |
| madrazr | shikher: haven't you heard of this term called AJAX? | 23:54 |
| madrazr | Asynchronous is the very first word of that term | 23:54 |
| madrazr | shikher: and our lists do AJAXy requests | 23:54 |
| madrazr | well JSON instead of XML, but still the term AJAX holds | 23:54 |
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| shikher | oh. i did not know tht lists were using AJAX to make requests. | 23:55 |
| shikher | even then the time delay is tht much. | 23:56 |
| madrazr | shikher: how else would you do an HTTP request in the background without reloading the page? | 23:56 |
| madrazr | I don't know if such a thing even exists | 23:56 |
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| shikher | madrazr: let me rephrase my statement. are lists loading all of data using AJAX by sending continuous HTTP requests? | 23:58 |
| shikher | madrazr: for example, carol opens the partcipating student list. | 23:59 |
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