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| xfxf | tchaypo: that actually doesn't make any sense, YT re-transcode everything uploaded. i just tested one video and everything works for me too | 01:47 |
|---|---|---|
| xfxf | i'll eat my hat if the videos on YT don't have YT webm encodes that work on html5-video-only browsers | 01:48 |
| xfxf | nerd stats may be saying what the 'original' was, that should be irrelevant to what gets streamed to the browser | 01:49 |
| xfxf | (i know you're pasting what someone else wrote, but the theory doesn't make sense) | 01:49 |
| xfxf | @keeper: the shimmering at the bottom of that video is just the distance between the camera and presenter and interpolation occuring when we've got an item that is sitting *just* between two pixels | 01:50 |
| xfxf | you'll notice it doesn't happen on motion, just when things are still | 01:50 |
| xfxf | if we were doing 1080p you likely wouldn't notice it | 01:51 |
| xfxf | (which is the plan with the next gen of capture equipment, maybe for next year, if not, year after) | 01:51 |
| xfxf | i am curious what camera that was though | 01:53 |
| xfxf | i'd be fairly confident it's interpolation going on within the camera itself through, likely somewhere between physical sensor and what it's sampling to output via HDMI | 01:53 |
| xfxf | i doubt anything in our encoding pipeline is causing that | 01:54 |
| CarlFK | xfxf: where is the doc / wiki / whatever to dump comments? | 01:55 |
| xfxf | https://docs.google.com/document/d/195djdrZOiHL-qqPzpic2Odbvie7cmj0l43-A7Vehs_A/edit | 01:56 |
| tpb | Title: Google Docs - create and edit documents online, for free. (at docs.google.com) | 01:56 |
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| CarlFK[m] | I just got stranded in St Louis because of weather in Chicago. | 02:19 |
| CarlFK[m] | This leg of my travel may take longer than going from New Zealand to San Francisco | 02:19 |
| xfxf | oh ugh. showstorms again? | 02:22 |
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| charcol | :( that sucks | 02:54 |
| charcol | I was stuck in Mackay airport for about 8hrs once. It's a 90min flight back to Brisbane | 02:55 |
| xfxf | ugh | 02:56 |
| xfxf | how big is that airport? | 02:56 |
| xfxf | i've been stuck at LAX for >10 hours a few times, but it's LAX, everyone has those stories :( | 02:56 |
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| charcol | I don't think anyone *likes* LAX | 03:03 |
| charcol | Mackay airport is tiny, but at least there was wifi | 03:04 |
| keeper | Are all big airports evil, or do people just get a bad associated memory due to all the customs stuff? | 03:05 |
| charcol | NRT and DXB are huge but had great experiences at both. Left 2-3 hrs to transfer at LAX and still missed the connection | 03:07 |
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| keeper | xfxf: Ah right, thanks. | 03:12 |
| CarlFK | 6 baggage carousals. none of them have my bags. | 03:13 |
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| charcol | re: the debconf docs - is that all the same as what we do? | 06:02 |
| keeper | From what I understand yes, the diagrams look identical. | 06:03 |
| charcol | mostly asking because Grid Engine Master and SReview | 06:05 |
| keeper | veyepar vs SReview doesn't change vocto mcuh from what I know, you're just rsyncing the .ts files to a storage server, and the respective systems do whatever they do with those files. | 06:09 |
| xfxf | we don't do everything debconf does, but it is similar | 06:10 |
| xfxf | SReview is a simpler veyepar clone. it was made literally, and I quote, | 06:10 |
| xfxf | because "Python is the wrong language" | 06:10 |
| xfxf | it's written in Perl | 06:10 |
| xfxf | if you're looking for inspiration to do what we do better, look at what CCC do. they use vocto but with a very different workflow | 06:11 |
| xfxf | i'd _love_ to replicate what the CCC do, but they have massive budgets and a team size that we can only dream of | 06:11 |
| xfxf | and most of their documentation is in german :P | 06:11 |
| xfxf | i haven't volunteered on the debconf-video team for a long time (tumbleweed is way more up to speed than this, given he still does) but when I did I had a bunch of disagreements about how they tackle some things | 06:12 |
| xfxf | but IIRC what they do now is mostly the same as what we do | 06:12 |
| CarlFK | sReview expects less work done in the room and more work done in post | 06:13 |
| keeper | charcol: Just FYI, I linked you those things for the vocto side of it. I haven't found any good documentation for the veyepar side. | 06:15 |
| xfxf | keeper: it doesn't exist ;) | 06:15 |
| xfxf | veyepar has a user base of under 5 people | 06:16 |
| xfxf | we've effectively doubled it at the hackfest | 06:16 |
| charcol | were all 5 at the hackfest? | 06:17 |
| xfxf | 3 of them - carl, myself, tumbleweed :P | 06:17 |
| xfxf | the other two are thereotical.. | 06:18 |
| xfxf | i have opinions on lots of things with veyepar and how it could be adopted by more people, but Carl regularly hacks on it and it's the best system I've seen despite its flaws | 06:19 |
| charcol | what does the CCC budget get that we don't have? | 06:19 |
| xfxf | and if somebody's gonna hack on improving parts of the stack, i can think of many things that would have an infinitely better outcome than writing another one | 06:19 |
| xfxf | much much higher end equipment | 06:19 |
| keeper | Also re the "wrong language" comment, this community seems a bit too small. I found some blog posts and mailing list archives that were quite opinionated about right vs wrong ways of doing things. | 06:19 |
| xfxf | ya, well, i'm not one to language bash, but if somebody tells me they're using Perl because python is the wrong language, i'm not listening anymore :P | 06:20 |
| xfxf | charcol: we effectively do what we do with consumer hardware and lots of code. they rent very high end equpment which is HD-SDI instead of HDMI, and use pro level gear | 06:20 |
| xfxf | video production is very much a solved problem if you step up to that tier of production grade equipment | 06:21 |
| charcol | of all the reasons to re-write veyepar, python seems like the wrong argument | 06:21 |
| xfxf | we're trying to acheive similar results with a tiny budget and consumer gear | 06:21 |
| xfxf | charcol: ye | 06:21 |
| charcol | "HD-SDI instead of HDMI" -> is that for the camera out? | 06:22 |
| xfxf | for everything | 06:23 |
| charcol | do they use opsi as well? | 06:23 |
| xfxf | no | 06:23 |
| xfxf | HD-SDI is how they transport video - they'll run 200m lengths of the cable to shuttle around video from equipment | 06:23 |
| xfxf | we use HDMI out > HDMI capture > laptop running gstreamer pipeline > ethernet | 06:23 |
| xfxf | most of what they produce is 1080p video with several audio tracks / translations in different languages | 06:24 |
| xfxf | it's a very different result to what we do, but they've got a far larger team and a 6 figure budget IIRC | 06:25 |
| keeper | I assume if you spend enough money, you can get a device that does everything that the opsis does + more. | 06:26 |
| xfxf | it's more that the problem is solved in a completely different way | 06:27 |
| xfxf | but ya, with enough money, you do it the normal industry way, which is HD-SDI and lots of expensive hardware units | 06:27 |
| xfxf | and fast video production is having video offloaded to SD card recording units, transporting those SD cards to a full time edit suite who have macs + adobe premiere, and they use templates to speed the process up | 06:28 |
| xfxf | what we do is super unusual. but the industry is starting to move more towards a similar automated workflow | 06:29 |
| xfxf | the industry is also starting to move towards decoding video and shuttling it over tcp/ip too... | 06:29 |
| charcol | interesting | 06:31 |
| charcol | also, did you mention earlier moving to 1080p? What would need to change? | 06:31 |
| xfxf | one of my goals is to use an open workflow - i could achieve that by moving entirely to desktops with blackmagic PCIe cards, but I don't want to do that | 06:32 |
| xfxf | the opsis's in their current state (USB capture) are only capable of USB2, so 720p or 1080i is around their limit | 06:32 |
| xfxf | the solution is either getting ethernet streaming working (they have an ethernet port) which should be able to do 1080p - or hell, theoretically even 4k | 06:33 |
| xfxf | but according to Tim, a newer capture unit, the 'NeTV2', will get this support first | 06:33 |
| CarlFK | charcol: hacking on the hdmi2usb firmware to run on https://www.crowdsupply.com/alphamax/netv2 | 06:33 |
| tpb | Title: NeTV2 | Crowd Supply (at www.crowdsupply.com) | 06:33 |
| CarlFK | yeah, that. | 06:33 |
| xfxf | i've ordered 2, CArl has ordered some too. once they work for 1080p i'll buy a bunch more and replace the opsis's | 06:33 |
| xfxf | i'll need to upgrade the capture laptops too, i think bumping vocto up to 1080p might be pushing their CPU's a bit | 06:34 |
| CarlFK | I'm not in a hurry. I think the 720p we do is fine. | 06:34 |
| xfxf | but i upgrade my equipment all of the time so that's just normal | 06:34 |
| xfxf | ya IMO 720p works great for laptop capture - but 1080p would make the camera look more crisp and our videos percieved to be higher quality | 06:34 |
| xfxf | most people watch our videos on Youtube, 720p looks a little yucky when it's not 1:1. and in most browsers it never is | 06:35 |
| xfxf | also, those blackmagic USB capture boxes I use - the only reason I use them is they do audio capture. the opsis hardware is capable of it, but the gateware/firmware need to have the support added | 06:37 |
| xfxf | I'm holding off buying any more because the opsis will in theory support it soon | 06:37 |
| xfxf | once a bunch of work on the NETV2's is ported back to the Opsis, they'll be way more reliable too | 06:38 |
| xfxf | so saying i'll replace the opsis's is probably misleading, i'll just buy more netv2's to replace any of the blackmagic gear | 06:38 |
| xfxf | if I had the time I'd dig into adding a lot of these little features into the opsis gateware/software, they genuinely sound super fun/interesting to do - i just never have time in between organising AV for events and my day job and my stupid car hobby | 06:39 |
| xfxf | but is on my ever growing TODO :) | 06:39 |
| xfxf | ethernet streaming on the opsis's would be neat too, it means we no longer plug a laptop into the thing, it just sits on the AV VLAN with its own IP address and we either shoot or pull video directly out of it into voctomix | 06:41 |
| xfxf | Tim had plans for hardware video mixing too, and chaining the units together via Displayport, so you'd end up with a single unified opsis with as many ins/outs as you wanted and do all of the video mixing using the FPGA rather than voctomix | 06:41 |
| xfxf | i'd be pretty happy with HDMI audio capture implemented though :) | 06:41 |
| thepatr1ck | HDMI audio capture and pass through would be awesome (I wish I had the time & FPGA knowledge to make that happen) | 08:39 |
| tumbleweed | xfxf, tchaypo: Yes, I'm pretty sure that when you upload VP8, youtube doesn't let you change speed | 09:15 |
| tumbleweed | charcol: I'd say DebConf is half way inbetween LCA and CCC | 09:20 |
| tumbleweed | DebConf usually uses our own audio equipment (owned or hired) | 09:20 |
| tumbleweed | and SDI from 2 cameras to a single vocto machine + HDMI from a laptop-capturing opsis over the network to vocto | 09:20 |
| tumbleweed | CCC has lots of fancy broadcast-pro-level cameras, and nice audio gear | 09:22 |
| tumbleweed | they do multiple language streams (live translation) | 09:22 |
| tumbleweed | and they don't use opsis for capture, but HDMI->scaler->SDI->blackmagic | 09:23 |
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| xfxf | tumbleweed: veyepar uploads mp4's though, and i tried 5 LCA videos and they all let me change speed fine - i'm surprised at what you say though, it shouldn't be dependent on the source format - it'll be dependent on what the browser supports, surely? | 10:30 |
| tumbleweed | no, we were uploading webms | 10:52 |
| tumbleweed | at least, once we started doing webm | 10:52 |
| tumbleweed | but yeah, I can't reproduce the speed issue now that I try | 10:54 |
| tumbleweed | I swear I have seen it in the past, though | 10:54 |
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| CarlFK[m] | I'm on a taxi going home! | 16:26 |
| rails | yay! | 16:29 |
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| * CarlFK[m] uploaded an image: scv_15487795593461762363927855827325.jpg (337KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/XyqbDBIDhsyBUSGRLoGBxueD > | 16:42 | |
| CarlFK[m] | Out the taxi window | 16:42 |
| rails | snow!! | 17:12 |
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| CarlFK | and home! | 17:57 |
| rails | yay! | 18:31 |
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| charcol | hooray for being home :) | 23:42 |
| CarlFK | well, I can't open my front door because there is ice in the way | 23:46 |
| CarlFK | but otherwise, yes, hooray ineed. | 23:46 |
| charcol | I'd give you some heat from here if I could. Was about 30C / 86F at 5pm the day we got back | 23:55 |
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