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| MadHacker | xobs: Re: < xobs> I'm not even doing ultrasound at this point, because my speakers can't produce it. So the goal there is to do... sound... and then change the frequencies once it's working. | 06:58 |
|---|---|---|
| MadHacker | At the wavelengths for audio, the frequency makes a big difference to diffraction around things. | 06:58 |
| MadHacker | Ultrasound is really directional, basically. | 06:58 |
| MadHacker | 44kHz is about 7.8mm wavelength. | 06:59 |
| MadHacker | Sorry, bullshit, ran my calculation backwards. :) | 06:59 |
| MadHacker | Oh, wait, no. Ends up the same number. | 07:00 |
| MadHacker | Aaanyway. Yeah. If you test stuff on normal audio frequencies, don't expect the higher frequency to be equivalent in terms of spread. | 07:00 |
| MadHacker | I'm commenting because I tried ultrasound links between 1980s micros at one point. Worked but super directional. | 07:02 |
| MadHacker | That said, there was that virus with some exotic ultrasonic data exfiltration stuff at one point, wasn't there? | 07:05 |
| xobs | MadHacker: I had a feeling it was directional. Still, I want to ensure it works omnidirectionally first, so I'm doing it at a frequency I can actually test. | 07:06 |
| xobs | There was that hysteria over that computer virus, yeah. | 07:06 |
| xobs | More practically, advertisers were using ultrasound to associate desktops and phones. It's why iOS filters WebAudio above ~13 kHz. | 07:07 |
| MadHacker | Aye. | 07:15 |
| MadHacker | Did you ever use an old TV set with an ultrasonic remote control? | 07:16 |
| MadHacker | There were still a few when I was a kid in the 80s, but I think they were leftovers from 1970s models. | 07:16 |
| xobs | I didn't, but that does sound like about the right level of tech. | 07:16 |
| xobs | Were those ultra-directional? | 07:16 |
| MadHacker | Extremely. | 07:16 |
| MadHacker | You could point at given TV from a wall of them and control it. | 07:16 |
| MadHacker | They worked well with that limitation, that said. Also, it bounces well enough, in a "like a beam of light" sense off a hard wall. | 07:17 |
| MadHacker | Soft home environments don't let that happen, but hard brick/plaster walls can reflect it pretty well. | 07:18 |
| xobs | What modulation scheme did they tend to use, do you know? | 07:18 |
| MadHacker | I wonder how much benefit some of the CDMA-ish magic used for radio could be adapted to let multipath be useful rather than a hinderance. | 07:18 |
| MadHacker | OOK. | 07:19 |
| MadHacker | Although some even earlier ones used a non-electronic set of tuning forks instead. | 07:21 |
| MadHacker | DTMF-style. | 07:21 |
| MadHacker | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_control#Television_remote_controls talks about that. | 07:21 |
| tpb | Title: Remote control - Wikipedia (at en.wikipedia.org) | 07:21 |
| xobs | That's actually a good point. IR could also be a viable method. | 07:22 |
| MadHacker | IR is much easier to make work in wide-coverage mode, and the components are cheaper. | 07:23 |
| MadHacker | Might need to look at how to do AGC on the receiver *but* you could just buy off-the-shelf TV remote parts and have the job already done for you. | 07:23 |
| MadHacker | @whitequark of nmigen fame was looking at the NEC remote protocol for some reason on twitter the other day. Worth a quick look at the notes for that, because it covered some of the odder requirements to make it work well (like a pre-data burst to let the AGC adjust itself). | 07:24 |
| xobs | I remember we did IR for NeTV. At least an IR receiver. That was a weirdly barren space for something that people use so frequently. | 07:25 |
| MadHacker | https://www.sbprojects.net/knowledge/ir/nec.php linked from https://twitter.com/whitequark/status/1266650198119337984 | 07:26 |
| tpb | Title: SB-Projects - IR - NEC Protocol (at www.sbprojects.net) | 07:26 |
| MadHacker | IrDA's a thing too, of course, but it's got such horrible range - deliberately - I don't think IrDA parts are going to be useful. | 07:27 |
| xobs | I do know you just have to bandpass 38 kHz, which alleviates the load on the AGC somewhat. Since it's mostly just a DC offset. | 07:28 |
| MadHacker | 38kHz isn't special. In fact, I suspect it *might* have been chosen as being the same frequency the old ultrasonic parts used. :D | 07:28 |
| MadHacker | Take ultrasonic TV remote system, add LED, add photodiode, profit. | 07:29 |
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| acathla | MadHacker, xobs, 38KHz receivers are commonand cheap, IRDA transceivers existed at >4MBps but it's hard to find now, only max 115200 bps (and not that cheap). That's why I'll use TS4231 chips used by sensors on the HTC Vive with it's lighthouse. It's ~1€ each chip and does the amplification and filter 1-10MHz | 13:48 |
| acathla | Now I need to write the right code in litex to make it efficient (it's for robot-robot communication, short distance <10cm). I only have a modified UART working at 3MHz modulation. | 13:50 |
| xobs | Sounds like a neat project. | 13:56 |
| acathla | yep, but I need to learn so many things... | 14:02 |
| MadHacker | The short range thing with IrDA is one of the problems there though. It's deliberately a <1m protocol, for security reasons. | 14:48 |
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| Tafil | Hi | 21:53 |
| Tafil | everybody | 21:54 |
| Toba | hi, Tafil | 21:54 |
| Toba | what's crackin' | 21:54 |
| Tafil | I have a sort question related to the TOMU USB | 21:54 |
| Tafil | i did some development on it but it is loading into the bootload as soon as i unplug and plug in the USB | 21:55 |
| Tafil | i am suffering on this since days | 21:56 |
| Toba | I am not gonna be able to help you but if you post details of what you did and what you expected to happen | 21:56 |
| Toba | and what happened instead, with data in pastebin.com to show the commands etc | 21:56 |
| Toba | and wait on irc, someone may be able to help you | 21:56 |
| Toba | these things usually take time | 21:56 |
| Toba | for someone who knows to catch up to their chat and see it | 21:57 |
| Toba | good luck | 21:57 |
| Tafil | i will do so i thought of opening a discussion on | 21:57 |
| Tafil | google with more information | 21:58 |
| Tafil | Toba many thanks | 21:58 |
| Toba | on google? is there a tomu google group? | 21:59 |
| Toba | where-ever you start the convo provide the information i mentioned above | 21:59 |
| Toba | it will make it more likely that someone can help you | 21:59 |
| Tafil | https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/tomu-discuss | 22:08 |
| tpb | Title: Google Groups (at groups.google.com) | 22:08 |
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