Saturday, 2009-03-28

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Vadtecwell aside from its odd revision numbers, im sure its every bit as good as svn00:00
ezodoh, quite better, imo00:03
Vadtecim trying to wrap my brain around how get handles repos00:03
ezodit's distributed, so there's an extra level between commits and pushing to a "central" repo00:03
ezodok worded wrong... that is the extra level00:03
Landoninstant commits++00:04
Vadteci get that it has the remote copy and a local copy like svn, but the way they make it sound is, the local git repo works standalone? and you update the remote with a copy of the local?00:04
ezodpretty much00:06
Vadtechmmm00:06
Vadtecso it would be entirely possible to have a local git repo that only you can use, and its just as functional as a remote repo....00:07
Vadtecinteresting00:07
ezodyep, and other cool things too, like a repo you can copy, download, etc.00:08
Vadtecso, just to make sure i understand this right...00:09
Vadteccreate a local git repo00:09
Vadtecsetup files/dirs00:10
Vadteccommit to local repo00:10
Vadtecsetup remote repo00:10
Vadtecpush the local git repo to the remote repo00:10
ezodthat's the idea00:10
Vadtecthen others can checkout the remote repo00:10
Vadtecinteresting00:11
ezodtechnically you clone the remote repo to your own local repo00:11
Vadtecright00:12
Vadtecso if i were to have my own repo setup that clones libtpprotocol-cpp, when im done making changes to it, one of the admins here could git pull from my repo and update TPs git repo, right?00:13
CIA-1mavrinac tpadmin-cpp * r65b3994008bc /.gitignore: Add .gitignore file.00:17
ezodVadtec: yes that's possible to do00:17
Vadtecmaybe git will work out for me00:18
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ezodllnz: you remember jphr had a compile issue like00:29
ezodtpserver/Makefile.am:5: GNUTLS does not appear in AM_CONDITIONAL00:29
ezodalanp is having same issue (with libtpproto-cpp) - recall what fixed it for jphr?00:31
Vadtecill setup a git repo of my own tomorrow, right now, im gonna sleep, gotta travel and we had a blizzard here all day today, so im sure the roads are gonna be oh so fun00:33
Vadtecblah00:34
Vadtecand the silly blizzard is still right on top of us00:34
Vadtecits gonna take all night to blow over00:34
Vadtecnice00:34
Vadtecroads are gonna suck...00:35
Vadtecnight peeps00:35
ezodnight00:35
llnzezod: odd00:35
llnzezod: he might need a newer (or older) version of automake00:36
alanpAh00:36
ezodthat was my suggestion00:36
alanpany specific version00:36
* llnz apologies is 'he' is incorrect in this context00:36
llnz1.10.1 is working for me00:37
ezodgentoo carries around like 15 versions by necessity00:37
alanpii  automake                                   1:1.10.1-2                                           A tool for generating GNU Standards-complian00:37
alanpsame thing00:38
llnzhumm... autoconf maybe?00:40
llnz2.61 here00:40
alanpii  autoconf                                   2.61-4                                               automatic configure script builder00:40
alanp:-\00:40
llnzwow...00:40
llnzhumm...00:41
llnzwhat script/program is running when that error is given?00:41
alanpautogen00:41
llnzalso, check what "automake --version" says (autoconf too)00:42
alanpautomake (GNU automake) 1.10.100:42
alanpautoconf (GNU Autoconf) 2.6100:42
alanp:-00:42
alanp:-\00:42
llnzodd00:43
llnzinstead of running autogen.sh, can you run these commands:00:44
llnzaclocal -I m400:44
llnzautoheader00:44
llnzlibtoolize --automake --copy --force -ltdl --recursive00:44
llnzautomake --add-missing --copy --gnu00:45
llnzautoconf00:45
llnzwhich one produces the message00:45
llnz?00:45
alanpi think it's automake, let me verify00:45
alanpit echo's automake before iterrors00:45
alanplibtoolize: unrecognized option `-ltdl'00:46
alanpprobably need that package00:46
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llnzoops, should have two dashes00:46
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llnz--ltdl00:46
alanpah00:46
alanplibtoolize: unrecognized option `--recursive'00:47
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alanpfrom the autogen:00:47
alanplibtoolize --automake --copy --force00:47
llnzok00:47
alanpthat works00:47
ezodllnz: this is libtpproto-cpp, somewhat different autogen contents from tpserver-cpp00:47
alanp~/tpsec/libtpproto-cpp$ automake --add-missing --copy --gnu00:48
alanptpproto/Makefile.am:72: GNUTLS does not appear in AM_CONDITIONAL00:48
llnzoh, libtpproto-cpp... hold on a second00:49
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ezodworks for me though, automake 1.10.200:50
llnzhumm... it should be ok00:50
llnzi can't see any reason why it should be failing00:51
ezodwell im off for tonight00:53
ezodlater all00:53
* ezod out00:53
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llnzhi mithro01:00
mithroheyo01:01
alanpllnz, any other ideas?01:04
llnzalanp: nope, will keep thinking01:11
llnzbbs, dinner01:11
mithrodamn missed ezod01:12
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rsisnettHI all... just brief question, is it just me or demo1 and demo2 servers are down?01:20
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mithrorsisnett: llnz will be back in a bit01:35
mithrohe manages them01:35
rsisnettthanx01:35
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* llnz recompiles tpserver-cpp on the demo host02:09
llnzdemo 1 and 2 running, lastest version02:18
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llnzearth hour is about to start here03:29
CIA-1llnz tpserver-cpp * r7d4faa0ef3a3 /tpserver/ (8 files):03:34
CIA-1Refactored the turn timer03:34
CIA-1Split out basic and threshold turn timers, currently hardwired to use03:34
CIA-1the threshold turn timer (as it was using it before). Player finished03:34
CIA-1turn timer to come and being able to choose and switch between timers too.03:34
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llnzhi Landon03:44
Landonhey there03:45
Landonvps problems :(03:45
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CIA-1llnz tpserver-cpp * r456278b886e4 /tpserver/ (3 files):04:14
CIA-1Added PlayersFinishedTurnTimer.04:14
CIA-1This is the advantage of the new TurnTimer class, very easy to add.04:14
CIA-1llnz tpserver-cpp * r5e49f443ca7e /modules/games/mtsec/splitfleet.cpp:04:17
CIA-1Update MTSec splitfleet to follow minisec.04:17
CIA-1Makes them identical again. Avoids segfault in corner cases.04:17
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llnzmithro: you around?04:25
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mithrollnz: kinda06:41
llnzmithro: when you get a chance, take a look at the Architecture page on the wiki that i created today06:41
mithrookay06:44
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JLPgood morning everyone07:22
llnzhi JLP07:23
totehello :)07:23
toteand with that i mean, morning :)07:24
llnzhi tote07:24
skiffcz-gsocmorning!07:32
llnzbbl08:14
Epyonmithro, ping?08:15
mithroEpyon: pong08:45
mithroEpyon: poke poke08:50
mithrotote: ping?08:50
mithroezod: poke me when you get up08:52
totemithro: pong08:54
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JLPashish: wlcome08:55
mithrotote: been reading your GSoC application08:55
mithrotote: I was wondering how you plan to do the starmap - wouldn't this need some server side rendering of images?08:56
ashishI want to participate in GSoC 2009. How I can contribute to tp?08:56
mithroashish: there are many ways, have you looked at the wiki?08:57
totemithro: i might have missed something, but if make it look like tpclient-pywx, then there is no need for any rendering of images?08:58
mithrohow will you draw the starmap?08:59
mithroyou'll need some way to draw things like the planets/ships right?09:00
ashishyaah i hav seen...........I can get something.Thanx09:00
mithrotote: do you have any time to do mock-ups of what you think it would look like?09:01
totemithro: i just draw black tiles with a x,y cordinate system, and then i project the x,y,z cordinates onto that, and draw the objects using a simple div with positioning09:01
mithrobut you can't draw circles with div09:02
toteaha, i thought those would be prerendered09:03
totehmm i just noticed the detail in tpclient-pywx09:03
mithrodetail?09:04
totea pixel is a orbiting fleet :)09:04
mithroyeah :)09:04
mithroorbiting object09:04
mithrofleets/planets09:05
mithrowhat about drawing things like wormholes?09:06
mithroyou can't really draw a diaganal line with a div either09:06
totenah, i guess html canvas or something similar might be better, just not sure how cross browser friendly it is yet09:07
mithroor something like SVG09:09
mithrotote: what about testing?09:09
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mithrohey verhoevenv09:09
mithroverhoevenv: I see your tutorial is going well09:10
mithrohi adrian_mo1609:11
adrian_mo16hi09:11
mithroyou here for GSoC?09:11
adrian_mo16about yes09:11
adrian_mo16but now i have a question that's not about gsoc09:12
mithrosure09:12
adrian_mo16the fact is that i have no idea how to work on the source code, what IDE to use and how to compile it without autotools09:12
adrian_mo16i'm trying to build it in eclipse, but dont seem to have any luck09:12
mithroadrian_mo16: none of the developers use IDEs09:12
mithrovim is all the IDE that we need09:13
adrian_mo16and testing/debugging?09:13
mithrotesting and debugging are quite unrelated09:13
totemithro: hmm, i would test it using different browsers and would love help from the community, not sure unit testing is good for the frontend, might use that for the backend tho09:13
adrian_mo16i mean both09:13
mithroadrian_mo16: to debug c++ stuff you would probably be using gdb or ddd09:14
mithrofor testing you just fire up the client and try and do stuff09:14
adrian_mo16the only problem i see is this huge compile time09:14
adrian_mo16in what concerns tpserver-cpp09:14
adrian_mo16and i seem to get it everytime i change something09:14
mithroadrian_mo16: huge compile time? it takes less then 2 minutes on my computer09:15
adrian_mo16hmm09:15
adrian_mo16mine took about 25 minutes09:15
adrian_mo16i might have an outdated computer :)09:15
mithroit's probably eclipse using all your CPU :)09:15
adrian_mo16i was reffering to the 'make' compile, not eclipse09:16
mithroI don't have a terrible fast computer09:16
mithroonly 1.06ghz mobile CPU09:16
adrian_mo16i have watched my CPU use and it was quite full and stagnating sometimes09:16
adrian_mo16and i was only compiling the sources09:17
adrian_mo16w/o any other programs running09:17
adrian_mo16anyway09:17
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adrian_mo16i've got my answer, no IDEs09:17
adrian_mo16guess i'm used to windows programming :)09:17
mithroyou can use an IDE - but nobody does09:18
mithroso your on your own in figuring out how to do so09:18
adrian_mo16one of the advantages of a IDE was the 'goto definition'09:18
adrian_mo16of function/var09:18
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mithroadrian_mo16: it's normally pretty easy to find the definition09:19
adrian_mo16hmm, cool, i see that now09:19
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adrian_mo16i found something on google about vim09:20
mithrowb verhoevenv09:20
mithroverhoevenv: do we have minisec support now?09:20
verhoevenvmithro: Not yet.09:21
adrian_mo16thanks for the info, mithro09:21
adrian_mo16gotta go09:21
mithroverhoevenv: whats missing?09:21
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verhoevenvmithro: Testing, a rule file.09:22
verhoevenvIf the testing goes fast, it should be done in a few hours.09:22
mithrogreat09:22
verhoevenvezod: poke09:25
mithroverhoevenv: it would be cool to test against tpserver-py too09:26
verhoevenvIt also has minisec?09:26
verhoevenvI didn't even know.09:26
mithroyes09:27
mithrominisec and minisec+09:27
verhoevenvEh?09:28
mithrominisec+ just has a small amount of imporvements over normal minisec09:29
Patrick`mithro: you gonna be around for a bit?09:29
mithroan hour or two09:30
Patrick`I just have a thing about testing09:30
Patrick`poking around, I've seen the twisted port and the tests for it09:30
Patrick`and I assume/know that twisted supports unit tests within itself09:30
Patrick`but for the current setup, which has an internal polling loop09:30
Patrick`getting that running within a testing environment would be a bit hacky09:30
mithrowhy?09:31
Patrick`well, without making any changes to the actual code09:33
Patrick`my understanding is that a test suite kind of does its own thing and calls various functions and so on, whilst the custom network poller would always be doing its own thing and calling functions to handle data recieved on a socket09:36
Patrick`now your question makes me think I don't understand it correctly, which is the most likely explanation09:37
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mithroPatrick`: you just mock out the bits you don't want to test09:38
Patrick`ok, yeah, and call the poll loop manually from wthin the test suite09:39
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mithroyeah09:39
Patrick`and not testing that particular bit of code could be worked around09:39
Patrick`it probably doesn't have a lot of meat in the actual function09:39
Patrick`sleep, poll(), sleep, poll() I seem to recall09:39
Patrick`at the end of the day, I can't get myself up to speed before the start of soc, but I can demonstrate aptitude and a willingness to learn09:40
mithroPatrick`: remeber unit testing is about testing little bits at a time09:41
Patrick`actually can I show you what I wrote for my own project back in the day09:41
Patrick`and see if I "get" it or not?09:41
mithrosure09:42
Patrick`I wrote my own socket wrapper. If I was doing the same project now I'd use twisted but this started off as the first ever non-5line script I ever wrote to teach myself networking09:46
Patrick`http://pidge.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/pidge/trunk/Pidge/mysock_test.py?view=markup09:46
tpb<http://ln-s.net/34SP> (at pidge.svn.sourceforge.net)09:46
Patrick`there's a branch where I tried to port to asyncore but I didn't finish09:47
whackyHow many slots would be there for tp in gsoc?09:50
JLPwhacky: we can't say09:50
JLPwhacky: ir depends on how many applications we get and how we compare at this with other organisations09:51
JLPwhacky: al we can say is that there will be at least 209:51
whackyJLP: I am interested in cloning a 4X game09:53
JLPwhacky: any particular game serving as inspiration?09:59
whackyJLP: star trek, new worlds10:01
JLPwhacky: so you're interested in creating a new ruleset10:05
whackyJLP, yes10:05
whackyJLP, What should I do for that??10:06
JLPwhacky: read as much documentation about rulesets on the wiki, take a look at the code to see how it is done in existing rulesets for server of you choice10:08
JLPwhacky: there is also a guide being written on how to make rulesets, you can find it in git10:08
JLPthen start listing things that your ruleset would need, like orders, units ... and try to imagine an example game with those10:10
JLPwhacky: the best is if you would write this down into wiki and then refine it as you find out more10:12
whackyJLP:Is there any other conditions other than being 4X?10:12
whackyJLP:Would this be a good project for Gsoc?10:13
JLPwhacky:  no other condition other than those listed on GSoC pages on wiki10:13
JLPwhacky: and yes it can be a good gsoc task, especially if you plan to work on it even after gsoc10:14
JLPbut yes you need to have the gameplay well thought out and the application must be very good10:14
JLPwhacky: take a look for the one that Epyon posted in wiki for elitesec, it is a very good example of how it should look10:15
whackyJLP:I will look into it.10:16
JLPwhacky: although keep in mind that this year we are focusing on improving existing code/rulesets10:17
JLPwhacky: so the application for something new would have to be really good and very convincing10:17
totemithro: http://xvid.se/tpmap/ something like that :)10:23
tpbTitle: Testing stuff (at xvid.se)10:23
mithrotote: what about wormholes?10:29
totehow does a wormhole look like? but its svg/vml now, so its easy to create any figure :)10:30
mithroPatrick`: that stuff is just really testing the low level network layer10:30
mithroPatrick`: their is a lot more to the protocol layer then that10:30
mithroPatrick`: but that looks like a decent start and should work with any method10:30
mithrotote: a line between two points10:33
totemithro: update the link, just something like that? :)10:36
mithrotote: yeah, I guess Canvas/SVG has a spline function?10:37
Patrick`ok10:37
Patrick`yeah, I just never got up to the high-level stuff10:37
Patrick`my plan was to e.g. capture a packet dump of irssi on freenode and then test against that , for example :)10:37
totemithro: they got path, create a path between any number of nodes :)10:38
Patrick`I think as a proof of concept I can port my old project to twisted and then port the unit tests10:38
mithroPatrick`: actually a cool side project would be to add TP protocol support to etheral10:38
mithros/etheral/wireshark/10:38
Patrick`that should demonstrate that given familiarity with the codebase, I can do it10:38
verhoevenvYeah, I agree about wireshark.10:38
Patrick`anyway, less talking, more writing10:38
mithroit would be quite easy to do with the xml protocol definition10:39
mithrojust transform it into something wireshark understands10:39
verhoevenvAlthough the protocol is pretty readable once you get the hang of it.10:39
Patrick`ok, I could stick it on as a secondary/tertiary goal10:39
Patrick`I've never used wireshark before10:39
mithroPatrick`: it's like tcpdump only much easier to use10:40
Patrick`ok, now I have used tcpdump and it was a pita10:40
verhoevenvWe used it in network classes to demostrate the security problems with webforms.10:40
verhoevenvKinda fun.10:40
Patrick`ok, so if I had that working10:40
Patrick`then I could analyse tpserver-cpp's protocol as a benchmark and make sure it was consistent with that10:41
mithroPatrick`: what are you actually proposing you do?10:42
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mithroadd testing to tpserver-py and port it to twisted?10:42
Patrick`yes10:42
Patrick`or vice versa10:42
Patrick`depending on what actually makes sense at the time10:42
Patrick`but probably the former10:42
mithroso10:43
mithrotpserver-py uses libtpproto-py10:43
mithroso the first step would be to port that to twisted10:43
ezodmithro: poke10:43
mithrohey ezod10:43
Patrick`yep, now there's a couple of copies of that scattered around10:43
mithroso did we solve daneel-ai py2exe problem?10:44
Patrick`dronesec seems to have made some improvements10:44
mithroPatrick`: yes, you should be using the dronesec branch10:44
mithroI have been meaning to make that the default branch10:44
mithrobut have not had the time too10:44
Patrick`k10:44
ezodmithro: no, today will be my first opportunity to look at it again10:44
mithrodronesec was added JLafont which you will see around sometime10:45
ezodbut that i shall10:45
Patrick`now, I recall the wiki talked about sql in the context of "it'll be changed to work with twisted"10:45
Patrick`and I have some threading experience from kamaelia but I don't know anything about the tp side of things10:45
mithro    *  Step 1 - Port the core to Twisted's reactor, see libtpproto-py twist.py for a start of this.10:45
mithro    * Step 2 - Change the SQL queries to using the async thread worker pool. See this documentation about how this could be done.10:45
mithro    * Step 3 - Change any print statements to be logging statements.10:45
mithro    * Step 4 - Make tpserver-py daemonize.10:45
mithro    * Step 5 - Add support for an inbuilt http server - including authentication (to allow download of media and battle data etc)10:45
mithro    * Step 6 - Add support for multicast DNS/Zeroconf to Twisted.10:46
mithro    * Step 7 - Add a ssh/telnet port that lets programs remotely manage the server (such as add/remove games, etc).10:46
mithro    * Step 8 - Party10:46
mithrothat is from the wiki10:46
Patrick`yep10:46
mithrohave you checked out twist.py?10:46
ezodmithro: step 7 -> admin protocol10:46
Patrick`briefly10:46
ezodit's already supported in libtpproto-py, i believe10:47
mithroezod: it supports the client side, no?10:49
verhoevenvI'm willing to help out with step 8.10:49
mithroezod: so where did you get too?10:49
mithroI can spend an hour or two trying to get it to work now10:49
mithroezod: daneel-ai py2exe that is10:49
mithroPatrick`: so the tests would be part of Step 110:49
verhoevenvezod: What's the problem with daneel-ai and py2exe?10:50
mithro~seen cechez10:50
tpbmithro: I have not seen cechez.10:50
mithrohrm thats not right10:51
mithro~seen checz10:51
tpbmithro: I have not seen checz.10:51
mithrothats not right either10:51
verhoevenv~seen nash10:51
tpbverhoevenv: nash was last seen in #tp 1 day, 16 hours, 15 minutes, and 25 seconds ago: <nash> Or at least reasonable confident it woudl work10:51
verhoevenv~any cechez10:51
tpbverhoevenv: I have not seen cechez.10:51
mithro~seen cherez10:52
tpbmithro: cherez was last seen in #tp 2 days, 13 hours, 3 minutes, and 30 seconds ago: <cherez> Sweet.10:52
mithroah ha10:52
mithroezod: I know you started some stuff, so it would be good if you could commit/push it so I can work from that10:52
ezodverhoevenv: it's not building tp.netlib/client in10:52
ezodmithro: alright10:53
mithroezod: eventually I want to extend the singleplayer stuff so that daneel-ai/tpserver-py can be loaded in the same module as tpclient-pywx (IE a "native python module" mode)10:53
Patrick`~seen tpb10:54
tpbPatrick`: tpb was last seen in #tp 2 years, 12 weeks, 3 days, 8 hours, 47 minutes, and 23 seconds ago: <tpb> <tpb`@worldforge> I don't have a clue.10:54
Patrick`huh.10:54
mithroPatrick`: tpb doesn't see it's own output10:57
Patrick`yeah10:58
mithrotote: please include links to your testing stuff in your application10:58
CIA-1mavrinac daneel-ai * r8999452aa940 /setup.py:10:58
CIA-1Add py2exe information.10:58
CIA-1Note: currently tp.netlib and tp.client do not get properly embedded.10:58
Patrick`I can't recall if the IRC protocol actually echoes your own lines back or not10:58
Patrick`yes, naturally10:58
mithroPatrick`: it doesn't10:58
Patrick`I'm drafting it now, you can probably have a look at it in about 20 minutes10:58
mithroPatrick`: was talking to tote, but I guess it applies to you too :)10:59
Patrick`whoops10:59
Patrick`I thought you meant to say "note"10:59
Patrick`the keys are right next to each other ...10:59
Patrick`or not10:59
mithroif by right next to each other as "no where near each other" then sure :)11:00
mithrogit's getting pretty usable on windows these days11:01
verhoevenvezod: Another thing. Daneel-ai has the possibility to define multiple rule files for each game type (eg to define another strategy), it's currently not possible to make a choice in the single player wizard. Did you plan for that somewhere in the future?11:01
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verhoevenvgame type = ruleset11:02
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mithroverhoevenv: I'm pretty sure it's just an option of creating the correct xml in the singleplayer file11:02
ezodverhoevenv: i'll probably have to add a new parameter type for that to work properly but yeah not a problem11:03
verhoevenvezod: Kay, just keep it in mind, focus on the release now. :)11:03
ezodi have to get going for the moment, ill be back later11:03
totemithro: yep ill update the application with testing info and map info in a couple of hours11:05
mithrotote: actually, it would be really killer if you combined your two test things - but understand if you don't have time11:05
mithroezod: you didn't have a problem with ValueError, can't end with '/'11:07
totemithro: you mean xvid.se/tpmap and xvid.se/maps ? might be able to do it early next week11:09
Patrick`mithro: what about libtpproto2.py?11:10
mithrotote: yeah11:10
mithroPatrick`: that is the next generation protocol library11:10
Patrick`is the state of it such that it may obsolete my work in the near future? would it make sense for me to take it into account or work on it instead11:10
mithroezod: this is really weird11:10
ezodmithro: oh yeah i did, sorry, don't know why that wasn't changed11:12
Patrick`Now, what is it about the SQL interface that's incompatible with twisted?11:20
Patrick`I'm looking at it now but I've never worked with db's before11:21
mithroSQL is blocking11:29
mithrohence a long SQL command can cause the whole twisted reactor to stop handling stuff11:30
mithrowhich causes connections and such to drop11:30
Patrick`ok, so just the "usual"11:30
Patrick`e.g. I had DNS queries blocking on a laggy connection and halting my whole server11:30
Patrick`as for Zeroconf, it has its own select loop11:31
Patrick`so either it goes in a thread or gets ported to twisted11:31
Patrick`which would be a job itself!11:31
mithrooh how I hate setuptools11:32
Patrick`google claims that twisted has sql awareness11:32
mithroPatrick`: you see the Step 6?11:32
mithro[01:45] <mithro>     * Step 6 - Add support for multicast DNS/Zeroconf to Twisted.11:32
Patrick`yes, I'm going down that list trying to justify why I'd copy each one into my proposal11:33
Patrick`to understand what actually needs to get done11:33
mithroPatrick`: actually it shouldn't take a skilled twisted developer more then a day or two11:38
Patrick`and this would involve actually patching twisted.11:39
mithrobut the work around is to put it in it's own thread11:39
Patrick`Currently I am not this skilled twisted developer.11:39
mithroPatrick`: by the time you get to step 6 I think you should be11:40
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Patrick`ok, I'll let you see what I've got11:44
Patrick`still filling in details and times11:44
Patrick`Is the SQL currently blocking?11:50
Patrick`it can't be a showstopper in that case, just something that needs to be fixed.11:51
Patrick`otoh... the page on sAsync looks like it just fixes everything11:52
Patrick`deferred objects!11:52
* mithro beats his head against a wall11:55
Patrick`hey, could be worse11:55
Patrick`http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dhd4hhxz_13dw6jg2c3 <-- perhaps this will be a welcome distraction from setuptools11:56
tpb<http://ln-s.net/34Tc> (at docs.google.com)11:56
mithroarg, WTF won't py2exe include these files12:00
mithroahh ha12:05
mithroI'm an idiot12:06
mithroezod: you know why it wasn't working?12:07
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mithroezod: we where not giving the extra_arguments to setup12:07
verhoevenv...12:08
verhoevenvI love those kind of bugs. :P12:08
verhoevenvThe whole "WHY WON'T IT WORK" coupled with "WHY AM I SO STUPID"12:09
mithroanyone here have a good internet radio station?12:09
Patrick`add in a dash of "I'm a genius, I fixed the bug"12:09
Patrick`mithro: what you into?12:09
Patrick`virgin radio classic rock was an old favourite of mine12:09
mithromy current one has some stupid preacher guy on at the moment12:09
Patrick`... if you like classic rock12:09
mithroas it's 2:00am here12:09
Patrick`there's always virgin 1 as well12:10
mithroclassic rock, modern rock, pop, a bit of alternative stuff, a bit of techno12:10
Patrick`when I worked at GSK we had only internet radio in the laboratory12:10
Patrick`being a scientist is a very blue-collar occupation at the low level12:10
Patrick`radio, callouses, burns12:10
verhoevenvWhile coding I'm usually onto a loungy radio.12:10
Patrick`http://www.absoluteclassicrock.co.uk/12:11
tpbTitle: Absolute Classic Rock - the rock authority, rocking the planet (at www.absoluteclassicrock.co.uk)12:11
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Patrick`bah12:11
Patrick`BBC radio 2?12:11
Patrick`or radio 112:11
Patrick`only just back on linux, dunno if any of it actually works or not12:13
mithroI so hate windows :(12:13
Patrick`yeah, for the first day I started pissing around with cygwin and so on12:14
Patrick`and then just thought "forget this, I'm fixing my dual boot"12:15
Patrick`I've since renamed them "work" and "play" :12:15
Patrick`:D even12:15
mithroyay it seems to work12:15
Patrick`ok, my proposal's about as decent as it's going to get today, should I stick it on the wiki?12:15
Patrick`(as well as the google doc)12:15
mithroPatrick`: put it on the wiki12:15
mithroand don't forget to submitt to the gsoc app12:16
Patrick`even if revisions are anticipated?12:22
Patrick`I think it still needs a lot of work12:22
Patrick`anyway, doing it now12:24
mithroverhoevenv: ping?12:25
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CIA-1mithro daneel-ai * r06719683bac5 / (daneel-ai setup.py): Make py2exe work and make daneel-ai work inside a py2exe.12:42
alanpHey12:42
mithroezod: there you go12:42
mithrohi alanp12:44
mithroso for all the students listening, submit your applications to the web app early12:44
mithroit lets us keep track of who is doing what12:44
Patrick`done12:45
Patrick`I'll treat that as the definitive version then?12:45
verhoevenvmithro: pong if it's quick12:49
mithroverhoevenv: wanted to know how minisec support was going12:49
verhoevenvWon't be finished today. I'm mostly through the testing but the colonize command isn't working yet (in my bot) and I'm not sure why.12:50
verhoevenvWill attempt to fix it this evening when I'm back.12:51
mithroverhoevenv: that would be great12:51
mithroif we could support both minisec and risk it would be a pretty cool12:52
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mithroDTRemenak: hey?12:57
DTRemenakmithro: hey12:57
mithroDTRemenak: was it you how loved the original RFTS?12:58
DTRemenaknope, that was brlcad12:58
DTRemenakI was more of a MOO guy12:58
DTRemenak(and Stars!, and...)12:59
mithroahh12:59
mithroDTRemenak: what do you run?12:59
DTRemenakmostly the 5km12:59
DTRemenaksorry, that's probably not what you were asking ;)13:00
DTRemenakyou mean OS wise? or what?13:01
Patrick`hahaha13:01
mithroDTRemenak: yeah :)13:02
Patrick`stars was great13:02
DTRemenakI'm in windows right now.  zenwalk when I feel the need for a real os.13:02
mithroPatrick`: yeah, it would be great if we could get to the stage of simulating Stars!13:03
Patrick`there's just so much in it...13:05
Patrick`could build practically any 4x game out of it13:05
Patrick`sensor coverage, minefields, fuel, ship designer, the combat board13:05
DTRemenakit's well-defined though.  the math has been analyzed to death.13:05
Patrick`yeah, and then some13:06
Patrick`it'd just be just a massive slog to put it all together13:06
DTRemenakindeed13:06
Patrick`oh, and mass packets. Oh! the mass packets13:06
Patrick`there was always that one flavour of AI player you avoided13:07
Patrick`well, I did anyway.13:07
Patrick`I could deal with them, it just wasn't that fun13:07
mithroDTRemenak: your a mentor for bzflag right?13:09
DTRemenakyup13:09
Patrick`right, time for some well-deserved deus ex13:10
mithroDTRemenak: do you remeber the batcave?13:10
* DTRemenak scratches head13:10
DTRemenaknope13:10
Greywhindthat's odd13:26
Greywhindwhen i click on "list my student proposals," it says i don't have nay13:26
Greywhind*any13:26
Greywhindmy proposal disappeared :-O13:27
Greywhindi have the text saved, fortunately13:27
Greywhindbut the reviews are good13:28
Greywhind*gone13:28
mithroGreywhind: sorry13:29
mithroI accidently click the ineligible button13:29
JLPwhat, no are you sure warning?13:29
Greywhindshould i resubmit then?13:29
mithroJLP: yeah13:30
mithrojust fixing that now :)13:30
Greywhindor is there a way to make it "un-ineligible" :P13:30
mithrojust trying to find out now13:30
mithroit seems not13:30
Greywhindok. well, let me know if you want me to re-submit it13:31
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mithroGreywhind: looks like it's fixed13:37
whackyJLP:hello once again13:38
Greywhindmithro: yep13:38
Greywhindthanks13:38
JLPwhacky: wb13:38
whackyJLP:I'm interested in working in some rulesets of some games.13:42
whackycan you suggest some games?13:43
JLPwhacky: the ones you know and like the most are usually the best choice13:44
whackyJLP:Those on the wiki page ,are they enough?13:51
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mithro~seen ezod13:59
tpbmithro: ezod was last seen in #tp 2 hours, 46 minutes, and 31 seconds ago: <ezod> mithro: oh yeah i did, sorry, don't know why that wasn't changed13:59
mithroezod: ping?13:59
alanpi don't think he is around14:24
mithroalanp: he is probably doing other stuff - I'm hoping he'll check back here soon14:25
Patrick`cheers for the feedback14:26
totemithro: the comment you wrote on my application, should i just update the application with that, or respond with a comment? whats the proper way?14:31
JLPtote: update14:33
toteok14:33
mithrotote: of course post a comment when up have updated your application14:34
toteyes14:34
Epyonmithro, have you seen http://www.thousandparsec.net/wiki/User:Epyon/2009/EliteSec14:47
tpb<http://ln-s.net/34K:> (at www.thousandparsec.net)14:47
mithroEpyon: yes and left feedback14:47
EpyonAh, just noticed :)14:47
Epyon"Days are in game universe days -- one day is one turn, one turn will normally be five minutes."14:48
mithroEpyon: it's 6:00am here so I might have missed something when reading it14:49
Patrick`mithro, I've not finished the changes yet and I have to go out, so I'll do them tomorrow14:55
mithroPatrick`: that is okay14:55
Patrick`I don't think I have any questions about it14:55
mithroI should be in bed14:55
Patrick`yeah, I did wonder14:55
mithroit's 5 minutes to 6:00am :)14:55
Patrick`it's 5 minutes to 7pm14:57
Patrick`either I go nocturnal or you keep doing that and I work 9-5 :)14:57
Patrick`ok, later14:57
mithroha14:58
mithroI can only do this on the weekend14:58
Patrick`oh deary me15:00
Patrick`your free evenings = me getting up at 6am15:00
mithroI have to work 10->6 normally15:00
mithroI'm oncall15:00
Patrick`sweet job15:00
Patrick`support?15:00
Patrick`or something totally left-field like a surgeon15:01
Patrick`right, afk movie night15:02
mithroPatrick`: I work for Google, monitoring partner facing systems15:02
mithrognight15:23
mithroezod: hopefully that is enough to get us a working windows install15:23
Epyonmithro, ping nash about the proposal once he shows up15:25
EpyonI'll update the proposal with information from your's and JLP's comments probably today15:25
mithroEpyon: send him an email15:26
mithroreally gone now!15:26
EpyonBTW, about picking a client, I'd like to ...15:26
Epyonaaah15:26
Epyonsee you later then :)15:27
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Epyonwhat is the status and general idea of the cpptext client?16:41
JLPEpyon: i think it was more of a tool for llnz to test the server16:42
JLPEpyon: and it can serve as a simple "teaching" client for other client developers16:42
EpyonYeah, but it pulls me for the same reason ( and the ASCII is always pulling RL-developers :P )16:42
ezodmithro: back17:21
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llnzmorning all17:43
alanphello17:44
JLPllnz: ahoy17:46
llnzhi alanp, JLP17:50
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llnzhi Greg___18:46
Greg___Hi, I was looking to see if any of the AI Client developers were on18:48
JLPGreg___: verhoevenvis here18:56
Greg___JLP: thanks, I've already sent him a message but he hasn't responded18:58
CIA-1llnz tpserver-cpp * r5107b0b39c06 / (11 files in 2 dirs):19:05
CIA-1Can now swtich which turntimer is used.19:05
CIA-1Updated all the quickstart files and xml SPM files, most now use19:05
CIA-1playersfinish turn timer. Also updated sample.conf to document new19:05
CIA-1settings. You will need to update your conf files or your turns will19:05
CIA-1be 60 seconds long.19:05
ezodsuccess daneel-ai.exe19:05
llnzezod: cool19:05
llnzverhoevenv: fixed the bug you found in tpserver-cpp yesterday (commit was yesterday as well)19:06
CIA-1llnz tpserver-cpp * r3781a9705b25 /autogen.sh:19:16
CIA-1In autogen.sh, if libtoolize fails with --recursive, try without.19:16
CIA-1Should fix some problems.19:16
CIA-1llnz tpserver-cpp * r16c47ec7194f /libltdl/ (11 files):19:16
CIA-1Updated libltdl.19:16
CIA-1Not sure why it has updated, or if it will update every time.19:16
llnzbbs19:35
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llnzback20:01
Greywhindi've updated my proposal in response to Mithro's review20:02
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llnzGreywhind: cool20:05
Epyonllnz, is the cpp server linux only?20:08
llnzEpyon: sort of20:08
Epyonsort of?20:08
llnzi does compile and run on mac OS X20:08
llnzand has been cross compiled on linux for windows20:08
Epyonwhats the main reason it doesn't compile on windows natively?20:08
Epyonlack of build tools or network layer?20:09
llnzbuild tools20:09
Epyonhmm, havn't you thought of switching to CMake?20:09
EpyonIt's a lot more hassle free compared to auto tools20:10
llnzit should compile in cywin20:10
llnzs/cywin/cygwin/20:10
* Epyon is willing to try to make it compile under MSVC20:10
llnzpart of the issue is that the libraries (guile, gnutls) don't compile on windows20:11
ezodi'm planning on trying to compile it right in cygwin on windows after we get this release taken care of20:12
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Epyongnutls compiles under msvc20:13
Epyonseems as guile also20:15
Epyonany other libraries that might pose a problem?20:15
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llnznot that I can think of20:16
* Epyon would much prefer lua over gulie20:16
llnzif you want to add msvc support, go for it, I will not be updating it though20:17
llnzguile is used in a *very* limited way20:17
Patrick`mithro: ooh, nice job20:20
Epyonllnz, for what is it used?20:20
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llnzEpyon: it's used as the component requirements language20:21
* llnz finds a link20:22
* verhoevenv is back20:22
EpyonIf I'd do the job, and show a sensible alternative would you accept it? ( just checking the terrain :> )20:22
verhoevenvBut a bit past the Ballmer peak to code.20:23
llnzhttp://www.thousandparsec.net/tp/dev/documents/ncl.php20:23
tpb<http://ln-s.net/J7d> (at www.thousandparsec.net)20:23
llnzbut that doesn't explain it well20:23
llnzits only used in the component and property frames, to calculate the design properties20:24
llnzhi verhoevenv20:24
verhoevenvHeya llnz.20:25
Epyonhmm, actually why not use xml for that?20:25
ezodverhoevenv: daneel-ai.exe is go20:25
verhoevenvllnz: There's still something wrong with the timers... Currently, only the first turn seems to respect the settings, after that the over_treshold time is always used.20:25
verhoevenvOr at least, that's what I found.20:25
verhoevenvezod: Yay! Nice!20:26
Patrick`ezod: in theory, an AI could be written in anything20:26
Patrick`but in practice, the "how to speak the network" code's only there in python and c++20:26
Patrick`right?20:26
verhoevenvAnd Java.20:27
ezodand ruby and php, to a degree20:27
llnzverhoevenv: odd, what are you settings and num players/ruleset20:28
Vadtecevening all20:29
llnzEpyon: the complexity20:29
llnzEpyon: it does require a programming language20:29
verhoevenvllnz: basic quickstart-minisec.conf with turn_length_over_threshold = 5 for my bot (though I suppose other values also work)20:29
llnzotherwise we would have just used some objects20:29
llnzverhoevenv: how many players?20:30
llnzverhoevenv: if you update, a simpler turntimer is available20:31
verhoevenvllnz: Erm, 1 or 2 players I think.20:31
* ezod bbs20:32
verhoevenvAlso, how do you select those different timers?20:32
llnzturntimer setting20:32
llnzit's documented in the sample.conf file20:32
verhoevenvKay, might take a look at it later on.20:33
verhoevenvs/might/will/20:33
skiffcz-gsocnow21:09
skiffcz-gsocan hour was just stolen from me21:09
skiffcz-gsocdisgusting21:09
Patrick`woah21:10
verhoevenvYeah.21:10
Patrick`I did think it got late fat21:10
Patrick`*fast21:10
verhoevenvAll of a sudden it's 3 AM and I wan't sure what was happening.21:10
skiffcz-gsocits like 1:49 and you think, ah, its ok, the nightt is young .. fifteen minutes later, bam ... 3:0421:11
Patrick`2am, you mad ... europeans21:12
Patrick`I have a hunch for scandanavia, I dunno why21:12
Patrick`maybe dutch21:12
verhoevenvIt's nice to have some Europeans over here for a change.21:15
verhoevenvfeels like it's mostly Australians and Americans.21:15
verhoevenvskiffcz-gsoc: where you from?21:15
verhoevenv.cz. I suppose that's Czech. Or how you spell that. :/21:16
skiffcz-gsocverhoevenv: yup, you are right21:18
skiffcz-gsocI dont mind Aussies21:19
skiffcz-gsoc... nor Yankees :) was just teasing you guys :)21:20
verhoevenvWell, me neither. Except the time zone difference. It can get kind of annoying during soc.21:20
llnzhehe21:20
skiffcz-gsocJLP is Slovenian I believe ...21:20
skiffcz-gsocverhoevenv: the advantage of this community is, that people are usualy up is really strange hours - so timezones are not /that/ big deal21:22
skiffcz-gsocs/is/in21:22
skiffcz-gsocalso, when some of us just add/distract hours here and there, planning becomes a futile task anyways21:23
skiffcz-gsoc*sigh* its really half past three, I guess Im gonna submit it in the morning... Im unable to see even the most obvious flaws now, better leave the final check when Im more ready21:25
skiffcz-gsocgood night all peoples of the universe21:25
llnzcya skiffcz-gsoc21:25
verhoevenvNight.21:25
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Vadtecwish me lucky everyone...im setting up a git repo for the first time :P21:41
verhoevenvVadtec: Good luck. You'll need it. :)21:46
verhoevenvNah, it's not that bad.21:46
verhoevenvOnce you have a few days of experience, I found a nice article for you to understand it.21:47
Vadtecverhoevenv: pass me the article if you dont mind, im a quick learner21:47
verhoevenvVadtec: http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~cduan/technical/git/21:51
tpb<http://ln-s.net/34Yx> (at www.eecs.harvard.edu)21:51
Vadtecty21:51
Vadtecso far the hardest part is getting a grip with how git does "remote repos"21:51
verhoevenvRecommended for others too.21:51
Vadtecthat and setting up a simple git-daemon21:52
verhoevenvIt's explained pretty clearly.21:52
verhoevenvAs for git-daemon, hmm.21:52
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verhoevenvTried gitosis perhaps?21:53
verhoevenvThat works pretty well for me.21:53
Vadtecno, not yet, ill read that article first21:53
Vadtectry to get a grip with how git works and then go from there21:53
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Vadtecverhoevenv: thanks for the link, its turning out to be a good read already21:54
verhoevenvVadtec: Good luck with it.21:55
verhoevenvI'm off, 4 AM already.21:55
verhoevenv(sicko DST)21:55
verhoevenvNight!21:55
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EpyonAaah, back to linux23:25

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