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| nash | mithro: For firefox bugs I generally work on the assuption I'm a unix user, so they don't care | 00:31 |
|---|---|---|
| mithro | nash: I figured it out - expire header was set in the past | 00:32 |
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| mithro | hey jmtan | 00:49 |
| jmtan | hi mithro | 00:49 |
| mithro | did you get my email? | 00:52 |
| jmtan | yes | 00:54 |
| jmtan | the one you sent to the mailing list? | 00:54 |
| mithro | yeah | 00:54 |
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| jmtan | what does "icons don't turn back into models" refer to? | 00:56 |
| jmtan | thanks for the ideas | 00:56 |
| mithro | as in I only see the circle icons | 00:57 |
| mithro | when I zoom in they don't turn into the full 3d models | 00:57 |
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| jmtan | oh, okay - did you use the keyboard to zoom in? | 00:58 |
| mithro | yes | 01:00 |
| mithro | how else do you zoom? | 01:00 |
| jmtan | i forgot to change back when using the keyboard, usually i use the mouse wheel | 01:01 |
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| mithro | no mouse wheel on the laptop | 01:13 |
| mithro | jmtan: so how has progress been going? | 01:15 |
| jmtan | i have started on the progress bar, as i think it is the most important right now | 01:16 |
| jmtan | since the user will not know what is going on after pressing connect | 01:16 |
| mithro | can you base the switch to/from icons on FPS rather then a hard coded zoom level? | 01:17 |
| jmtan | could you explain a bit more on using the FPS? | 01:17 |
| mithro | well, when the FPS drops below a certain amount change to the icon view | 01:18 |
| mithro | IE as you zoom out, the FPS will drop as more items are shown on the screen | 01:19 |
| mithro | once it drops below something like 15fps, it would be good to automatically switch to icon view | 01:19 |
| mithro | that is probably a better way for lower end cards | 01:19 |
| mithro | as they will switch to icons sooner | 01:19 |
| jmtan | that's possible, but on high-end pcs the icon view would never appear | 01:22 |
| mithro | what is the advantage of the icon view? | 01:24 |
| mithro | maybe also have it when the objects get small enough? | 01:24 |
| jmtan | it is to allow user to spot objects when zoomed out - for instance the ships become very hard to see | 01:24 |
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| jmtan | okay maybe i have it both ways | 01:25 |
| jmtan | both by distance and by low fps | 01:25 |
| mithro | maybe don't iconise the system's suns? they do look quite pretty zoomed out with many avalible | 01:27 |
| mithro | Alklomion: are we okay for a conference call tommorrow? | 01:28 |
| Alklomion | yep - i sent you an e-mail | 01:28 |
| jmtan | ok, no problem | 01:28 |
| mithro | Alklomion: are you and Chris going to be in a meeting room together? | 01:29 |
| Alklomion | yes, we should be | 01:29 |
| Alklomion | mithro: i seem to be getting an invalid version error when my client tries connecting, the errors is 'client did not show correct version of protocol (version 2 or lower), i'm trying on rfts, should i be trying on a different rule-set for testing? | 01:30 |
| mithro | Minisec is a good ruleset to try with | 01:59 |
| mithro | did you end up following the howto I linked you? | 02:00 |
| jmtan | mithro: regarding the fps thing, any ideas on when to switch back from icon view? maybe a "high" threshold? | 02:03 |
| mithro | don't know | 02:09 |
| mithro | I think just back at the point you switch to | 02:09 |
| CIA-31 | alklomion /tmp/48YuZY0gw3/i6oj04hLNZ-midp * rf9abf2efbb2f /src/net/thousandparsec/netlib/Frame.java: | 02:16 |
| CIA-31 | removed the 2 in TP02 + getCompatibility, this was a remnant of adding two digits in a string.format and was preventing the connection from being made. | 02:16 |
| CIA-31 | via git-CVS emulator | 02:16 |
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| Alklomion | Success - it is connecting! | 02:54 |
| Alklomion | and stays connected, i think | 02:54 |
| Alklomion | the server is not reporting it as timing out | 02:54 |
| CIA-31 | alklomion /tmp/deqf2X077j/EdTbbsOwxt-midp * r95a5b983cb3a /src-generated/net/thousandparsec/netlib/tp03/Okay.java: | 02:57 |
| CIA-31 | visit(Visitor) now passes a tp03visitor on instead of looping around on itself | 02:57 |
| CIA-31 | via git-CVS emulator | 02:57 |
| CIA-31 | alklomion /tmp/iUm3xhZ6h2/dWcNdHnNvK-midp * r9ff1e58b1d28 /src-generated/net/thousandparsec/netlib/tp03/TP03Decoder.java: | 02:58 |
| CIA-31 | Commented some hazy code. | 02:58 |
| CIA-31 | via git-CVS emulator | 02:58 |
| mithro | yay! | 02:58 |
| Alklomion | kudos to the people who invented breakpoints i say | 02:59 |
| mithro | have to turn this computer off for now | 02:59 |
| mithro | it's about to run out of battery | 02:59 |
| mithro | see ya! | 02:59 |
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| nash | off home - night all | 03:18 |
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| CIA-31 | alklomion /tmp/FSuJEPRSes/XlvBspIs0T-midp * r89695550f87f /src-generated/net/thousandparsec/netlib/tp03/ (56 files): | 03:29 |
| CIA-31 | changed visit(visitor) to visit((TP03Visitor) visitor) so as to avoid an infinite method call loop | 03:29 |
| CIA-31 | via git-CVS emulator | 03:29 |
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| llnz | later all | 06:16 |
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| CIA-31 | aaron libtpproto-cpp-config * r320aa98e0067 /tpproto/ (4 files): Added an AdminStatusListener class and calls in AdminLayer. | 12:09 |
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| CIA-31 | aaron tpadmin-cpp * r9fbc076b9b6a /tpadmin/ (session.cpp session.h): Rename myConsole to just console (for consistency). | 14:06 |
| CIA-31 | aaron tpadmin-cpp * re048cd610606 /tpadmin/ (main.cpp session.cpp): Start and stop the EventLoop properly. | 14:06 |
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| CIA-31 | nuleren tpserver-cpp-tae * r637742fcca10 /modules/games/tae/colonize.cpp: | 17:30 |
| CIA-31 | Added rule which allows the Settler Leader of a region to act as a | 17:30 |
| CIA-31 | fallback when awarding points if the correct leader is not present in | 17:30 |
| CIA-31 | the region. | 17:30 |
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| CIA-31 | juanmy777 tpserver-py-dronesec * r817a8da58dcc /tp/server/rules/dronesec/master.py: Added a summarized way of adding players to a controller | 18:45 |
| CIA-31 | juanmy777 tpserver-py-dronesec * rba9cb8c3cac2 /tp/server/rules/dronesec/research/Research.py: Fixed how research holds its requirement data | 18:46 |
| CIA-31 | juanmy777 tpserver-py-dronesec * r46777bb2c23a /tp/server/rules/dronesec/research/MasterList.py: Changed Master Research list to hold the abbreviated names instead of full names | 18:46 |
| CIA-31 | juanmy777 tpserver-py-dronesec * r8b92ca2d7d70 /tp/server/rules/dronesec/research/PlayerList.py: Player list builds its list and manages new research development | 18:46 |
| CIA-31 | juanmy777 tpserver-py-dronesec * rbbd671bf3a3e /tp/server/rules/dronesec/drones/DroneAvailability.py: Drone availability should now add drones based on player research. | 18:46 |
| CIA-31 | juanmy777 tpserver-py-dronesec * r2c48dccaefa7 /tp/server/rules/dronesec/research/ (units.csv units.ods): Changed the Research for White stars to have no requirements for testing. | 18:46 |
| CIA-31 | juanmy777 tpserver-py-dronesec * rc12163268196 /tp/server/rules/dronesec/orders/Research.py: Research order implemented. Also adds new drones | 18:46 |
| CIA-31 | juanmy777 tpserver-py-dronesec * r0d95d5b9b76d /tp/server/rules/dronesec/ (__init__.py objects/Planet.py): Research order is now available in Planets. | 18:46 |
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| Iwanowitch | I hope this goes right... git still confuses the hell out of me. | 19:01 |
| CIA-31 | verhoevenv daneel-ai * r6bd8e197afdd / (chr.py chrtest.py): Various small renamings | 19:01 |
| CIA-31 | verhoevenv daneel-ai * r2612e2cc5f49 / (daneel-ai rulesystem.py ruletest.py): Restarted the rulesystem, my excuses for the gigantic patch | 19:01 |
| CIA-31 | verhoevenv daneel-ai * rabfe943c7d43 / (chr.py chrtest.py daneel-ai rulesystem.py ruletest.py): | 19:01 |
| CIA-31 | Merge branch 'chr2' | 19:01 |
| CIA-31 | Conflicts: | 19:01 |
| CIA-31 | daneel-ai | 19:01 |
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| mithro | ~seen jphr | 19:26 |
| tpb | mithro: jphr was last seen in #tp 2 days, 19 hours, 51 minutes, and 49 seconds ago: <jphr> ttyl | 19:26 |
| mithro | ~seen JLafont | 19:26 |
| tpb | mithro: JLafont was last seen in #tp 23 hours, 4 minutes, and 28 seconds ago: <JLafont> My university blocks IRC ports | 19:26 |
| mithro | ~seen greywhind | 19:26 |
| tpb | mithro: greywhind was last seen in #tp 1 day, 22 hours, 59 minutes, and 12 seconds ago: <greywhind> i'll have to check the log | 19:26 |
| JLafont | hi mithro | 19:27 |
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| JLafont | mithro: pong | 19:30 |
| mithro | JLafont: we really need to get you a better way of doing IRC | 19:30 |
| JLafont | mithro: I know | 19:31 |
| mithro | JLafont: do you have SSH access? | 19:31 |
| JLafont | mithro: Not sure, I wouldn't be surprised if the ports were blocked though | 19:32 |
| mithro | oh, you can push to git.thousandparsec.net right? | 19:32 |
| mithro | (that uses ssh) | 19:33 |
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| JLafont | then yes | 19:34 |
| mithro | you could setup a ssh tunnel | 19:34 |
| * ezod has a server box with screen and irssi | 19:36 | |
| ezod | i don't know what the problem is but i can offer an account if that will fix it | 19:37 |
| Iwanowitch | The pain with SSH tunnels for IRC is that you need to set up one for every server you connect to. Though if you're only here, that's no problem I guess. | 19:39 |
| mithro | Iwanowitch: the fact that he is using IRC through a web interface, I would think so | 19:39 |
| ezod | JLafont: i can set you up with a shell with irssi, you just need a ssh client | 19:42 |
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| mithro | JLafont: as I mentioned, we need to talk about the shelve stuff | 19:47 |
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| nash | Iwanowitch: How are things going? | 19:55 |
| Iwanowitch | nash: Well, I just commited the new rulesystem which seems to be working. | 19:56 |
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| Iwanowitch | Turns out I had a load of stuff I didn't really need. | 19:56 |
| nash | Cool - out of curiosuity did you take a look at any prolog implementation? | 19:57 |
| nash | Always good to dump stuff ;-) | 19:57 |
| * nash hasn't checked mailing lists yet this morning | 19:57 | |
| Iwanowitch | Nope, it doesn't have a lot to do with prolog actually. | 19:57 |
| nash | How so? | 19:58 |
| nash | My underrstanding was it was essentially a rule solver in pretty much the same way prolog is | 19:58 |
| nash | The AI is essentially one set of rules, and the universe is another? | 19:58 |
| nash | With a poke to go "conqueruniverse() | 19:59 |
| nash | " | 19:59 |
| Iwanowitch | Well, it's more of a fire-and-forget strategy. The rules don't need to do much backtracking and there's no real 2 way unification in the rules. | 19:59 |
| Iwanowitch | So those parts of prolog aren't needed. | 19:59 |
| Iwanowitch | (actually, no backtracking) | 19:59 |
| Iwanowitch | In the terminology, it's forward chaining, not backwards chaining as prolog. | 20:00 |
| nash | But backtracking allows complex rules to acutally be solved? | 20:00 |
| Iwanowitch | Well, backtracking might be useful, but I don't think it's a requirement or anything. | 20:02 |
| Iwanowitch | It's a certain way of coding and searching your problem space. | 20:03 |
| Iwanowitch | Well, I don't think I need backtracking anyway. I might be wrong of course. | 20:04 |
| Iwanowitch | But the current code seems to work out fine... Still needs work of course. | 20:04 |
| nash | I would suggest you try a set of rules 3 or 4 levels deep, with multiple constraints and see what happens? | 20:06 |
| nash | Can you just test the rule engine without the need for a server? | 20:06 |
| Iwanowitch | Yeah, the rule system is in a seperate package. | 20:07 |
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| * nash is just trying to remember the combination of max() and min() and a few other calls that he used to break iprolog... but that was 10 years ago :-/ | 20:09 | |
| * nash can't even get past max/min at this point | 20:12 | |
| nash | basically we found a way to get it to back track over all integers | 20:12 |
| Iwanowitch | Yeah, it's probably not too hard to do that kind of stuff. | 20:13 |
| nash | it was essentially going from 0 -> 1 the long way.... | 20:13 |
| Iwanowitch | We have seen some constraint solver system that tried to solve "X>Y,Y>Z,Z>X" over 0..Inf by shaving off 1 on the domains of each variable on every pass. | 20:14 |
| Iwanowitch | I suppose each system has its weaknesses. | 20:14 |
| nash | Probably... thinking about it, it's a case of godels theorem isn't it. It can't know it's unsolvable unless it knows more then it can | 20:15 |
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| Iwanowitch | nash: I'll be gone most of the following week. Might be able to work a bit but I probably have no internet access. | 20:53 |
| nash | okay | 20:53 |
| Iwanowitch | I've still got plenty of work anyway :) | 20:54 |
| nash | I'll look forward to the back log of comits when you get back ;-) | 20:54 |
| Iwanowitch | Fun for a whole day ;) | 20:54 |
| nash | Sounds good to me ;-) | 21:00 |
| nash | I don't mind reading patches | 21:00 |
| Appleman1234 | mithro has roped me into finally finishing the manual update, which means practically rewriting it from scratch as scribus hates backwards compatibility | 21:03 |
| Appleman1234 | does anyone have some images or logos that can be used for cover art | 21:04 |
| Appleman1234 | and some actual information about gameplay for a tips and strategies section ? | 21:04 |
| nash | let me know when you get ti RFTS ;-) | 21:06 |
| mithro | the thousand parsec logo is great for a coverpage | 21:06 |
| mithro | see our media repository | 21:06 |
| Appleman1234 | mithro: ok | 21:07 |
| Appleman1234 | mithro: can I upload / send you a text document outlining the structure of new manual ? | 21:07 |
| Appleman1234 | mithro: considering other than the faq, it is pretty much the only user docs out there | 21:08 |
| mithro | Appleman1234: it should also be specific to tpclient-pywx | 21:11 |
| Appleman1234 | mithro: ok | 21:12 |
| Appleman1234 | mithro: is this because you have other clients now or .... ? | 21:12 |
| * Appleman1234 is confused :S | 21:12 | |
| Appleman1234 | why should it be specific :S | 21:13 |
| Appleman1234 | :S | 21:13 |
| mithro | we have a 3d client too | 21:14 |
| Appleman1234 | I was just going to a manual for the whole of tp ..... | 21:14 |
| mithro | and nash's galaxie | 21:14 |
| mithro | this manual is for tpclient-pywx | 21:14 |
| Appleman1234 | mithro: then I can include those can't ? | 21:14 |
| mithro | to be shipped with the client | 21:14 |
| Appleman1234 | oh ok | 21:14 |
| mithro | and accessed from the "help" menu | 21:14 |
| Appleman1234 | Then it isn't a manual | 21:14 |
| Appleman1234 | and most of the planning and formatting I did in the last 10 minutes goes to waste | 21:15 |
| Appleman1234 | ok | 21:16 |
| Appleman1234 | *sighs* | 21:16 |
| Appleman1234 | now my tpclient doesn't even work | 21:16 |
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| mithro | it is a manual in something which give you information about a product right? | 21:25 |
| mithro | IE The "Microsoft Word" manual gives you information about Microsoft Word | 21:25 |
| mithro | (and how to do various things) | 21:25 |
| mithro | IE create a new document | 21:25 |
| mithro | This is exactly the same thing | 21:26 |
| mithro | Appleman1234: does that make sense? | 21:26 |
| mithro | IE "Creating a new account on a server", "Login in to a server", "Issuing Orders", "Navigating the Starmap", etc | 21:26 |
| mithro | which are all specific to tpclient-pywx | 21:26 |
| mithro | you do them differently in other clients | 21:26 |
| Appleman1234 | no it doesn't make sense, as that isn't a manual, that is just help documentation | 21:27 |
| Appleman1234 | manual = unix man page || computer game instruction manual | 21:27 |
| Appleman1234 | But I am already doing what you want so no need to panic | 21:27 |
| mithro | man pages are manuals in they tell you how to use a tool like grep | 21:28 |
| mithro | IE What the -i argument does | 21:28 |
| mithro | etc | 21:28 |
| Appleman1234 | ARGHHH, dialogs exist for a reason, no need to patronise me | 21:29 |
| mithro | Appleman1234: hrm? | 21:30 |
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| Appleman1234 | mithro: nevermind, you don't get it | 21:30 |
| nash | Appleman1234: I'd tend to agree with your interpretation | 21:30 |
| mithro | Appleman1234: ? | 21:31 |
| Appleman1234 | mithro: it doesn't matte, one new `Manual` for wxPython thousand parsec client coming up | 21:32 |
| Appleman1234 | just waiting for wxpython to compile, so I can actually load the client up to check a few things | 21:32 |
| mithro | Appleman1234: compile? | 21:33 |
| Appleman1234 | because it wants wxpython 2.8 all of a sudden instead 2.6 | 21:33 |
| Appleman1234 | I run Gentoo | 21:33 |
| Appleman1234 | compiles take time | 21:33 |
| Appleman1234 | why are you supplying in game help as a pdf ..... | 21:33 |
| Appleman1234 | isn't that a little broken ? | 21:33 |
| mithro | Appleman1234: well, I'm happy to provide it in another format, I was just using PDF as it was the quickest way to make something which looked decent (and to draw arrows and such) | 21:35 |
| Appleman1234 | mithro: let me get the client running (it isn't working even with 2.8 wxpython), then I will take a look at how things are packaged again | 21:36 |
| mithro | ezod did the gentoo package | 21:37 |
| mithro | there should actually be native gentoo packages in layman for tpclient-pywx | 21:37 |
| Appleman1234 | PDF requires a pdf viewer, for the help documentation you are providing it should be easy to with html, and gimp , provided your interface supports internal html anyways | 21:37 |
| Appleman1234 | meh | 21:37 |
| mithro | if you want to do it in Gimp, feel free | 21:42 |
| mithro | I just found it much easier to do in scribus and it doesn't have a "html export" option | 21:42 |
| Appleman1234 | meh, I don't want to do it in anything, I am just thinking of completeness and appropriability here | 21:43 |
| Appleman1234 | I mean required a user to have a pdf viewer just to view supposed in game or in client help | 21:44 |
| Appleman1234 | that isn't very opensource | 21:44 |
| mithro | there are plenty of good free PDF viewers | 21:47 |
| Appleman1234 | sigh, meh | 21:48 |
| mithro | Good HTML Manual > PDF Manual > Crappy HTML Manual > No Manual ? | 21:48 |
| Appleman1234 | but it isn't a manual, but meh | 21:50 |
| nash | Wouldn't something like docbook format be better, so it can translated to all formats? | 21:51 |
| Appleman1234 | if it was an actual manual sure | 21:51 |
| Appleman1234 | my html is better than my docbook | 21:52 |
| nash | docbook can do things that yelp and similar are happy with as well as chm and the like | 21:52 |
| mithro | nash: sure | 21:53 |
| mithro | but I don't have the time to learn docbook | 21:53 |
| mithro | the reason it ended up being PDF | 21:53 |
| mithro | is that scribus makes it very easy to create a nice looking manual with arrows and stuff | 21:54 |
| mithro | hence it didn't take very long to do | 21:54 |
| mithro | hence it didn't get put off for ever | 21:54 |
| Appleman1234 | mithro: the reason I put it off, is one it wasn't what I volunteered for and two I actually wanted to contribute something (make it better) | 21:55 |
| Appleman1234 | but fine | 21:55 |
| Appleman1234 | I fine scribus a pita | 21:55 |
| Appleman1234 | but I will duplicate your manual with new screenshots | 21:55 |
| mithro | Appleman1234: what did you think you signed up for? original i thought it was to just replace the screenshots (and then you wanted to expand it a little)? | 21:57 |
| Appleman1234 | find* | 21:57 |
| Appleman1234 | mithro: I thought I volunteered for 2 to 4 hours of work, not weeks worth | 21:57 |
| mithro | Appleman1234: sure, that is what I thought you volunteered for too | 21:58 |
| mithro | well more like 5-8 but not too much | 21:58 |
| mithro | just update the screenshots and stuff? | 21:58 |
| Appleman1234 | I can't | 21:59 |
| Appleman1234 | scribus doesn't read the slas | 21:59 |
| Appleman1234 | hence I am going to spend the next 8 hours transcribing and arranging from the pdf | 21:59 |
| mithro | which version of scribus are you using? | 22:00 |
| Appleman1234 | 1.3.3.11 | 22:02 |
| mithro | I'm using that here | 22:02 |
| mithro | loads the original sla fine - maybe your version got corrupted? | 22:02 |
| Appleman1234 | i will redownload then | 22:03 |
| Appleman1234 | I don't see how mine got corrupted | 22:03 |
| mithro | Appleman1234: I don't want you to do more work then you have to, or do stuff you don't want too | 22:03 |
| Appleman1234 | the irony | 22:03 |
| Appleman1234 | I figure I might as well | 22:03 |
| Appleman1234 | because once it is done it is done | 22:04 |
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| *** JLafont has joined #tp | 22:04 | |
| mithro | JLafont: ping? | 22:07 |
| mithro | Appleman1234: I can send you a tar of the doc directory if that would help? | 22:10 |
| Appleman1234 | that would be useful | 22:10 |
| mithro | email address? | 22:11 |
| mithro | Appleman1234: if you are interested in improving our general documentation, we would love to have you help out with that (but understand if you don't have the time) | 22:14 |
| Appleman1234 | [email protected] | 22:14 |
| Appleman1234 | mithro: as aforementioned, time is something I have, interest in anything is not for some weird reason | 22:14 |
| Appleman1234 | at the moment | 22:15 |
| Appleman1234 | the behaviour of latest client is to redirect to browser window | 22:15 |
| mithro | Appleman1234: sent | 22:15 |
| Appleman1234 | to list of video pages | 22:15 |
| mithro | it's about 3.5mb | 22:15 |
| Appleman1234 | so html documentation is quite easily possible, it is just a matter of writing it and then placing in the correct url | 22:16 |
| Appleman1234 | mithro: sorry about all the anger, and i realise now that my idea of a manual and yours are two different things | 22:17 |
| mithro | Appleman1234: as I was trying to say, we would prefer HTML documentation, but nobody had the time and it was just so much easier to do it in scribus (at least for me) | 22:17 |
| Appleman1234 | this sla works for some reason | 22:20 |
| mithro | weird :( | 22:20 |
| Appleman1234 | now the biggest problem is I don't have the exact font you used | 22:22 |
| mithro | it's a ubuntu inbuilt one? | 22:24 |
| Appleman1234 | I don't have nimbus sans bold condensed | 22:25 |
| Appleman1234 | I have nimbus sans bold though | 22:25 |
| Appleman1234 | and that seems to work just fine | 22:25 |
| mithro | okay cool | 22:27 |
| mithro | have to head into a meeting now | 22:27 |
| mithro | will be back later | 22:27 |
| Appleman1234 | done ish | 23:40 |
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