Monday, 2008-03-24

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JLafontmithro, you mentioned you would give me some feedback but I'm not sure where you are going to post it.00:02
mithroJLafont: sorry, I got distracted00:03
JLafontmithro, oh its fine.00:03
JLafontunderstandable after the 0.3.1 thing00:03
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andreiHere's the first draft of my proposal: http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~abarbu/soc/thousand-parsec00:29
tpb<http://ln-s.net/1iXj> (at csclub.uwaterloo.ca)00:29
andreimithro, Tell me what you think when you get around to reading it :)00:30
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JLafontHey llnz00:54
llnzhi JLafont00:54
mithrollnz: the servers are playing up01:06
mithrodemo1 has crashed01:06
llnzoh?01:06
mithroand demo2 won't let people create accounts01:06
llnzhehe, rfts only allows 4 players01:06
llnzdemo1 restarted01:08
llnzsegfaulted, debugged01:08
mithrollnz: know what is causing it?01:09
llnzi think i know, fixing it anyway01:09
mithrollnz: well that is a bit annoying :)01:09
llnzit's because you wanted frigates instead of 2 scouts01:09
CIA-13llnz tpserver-cpp * r7175fbb23eb2 /modules/games/minisec/minisec.cpp:01:12
CIA-13Moved setting ships in new player's fleets so that the orderqueues exist.01:12
CIA-13Fixes segfaults. Caused by addShip checking for frigates to add the colonise01:12
CIA-13order to the list of allowed orders.01:12
llnzfixed and demo1 updated and restarted01:13
mithrollnz: why are order queues not managed by the objects?01:14
mithroandrei: ping?01:14
llnzbecause of when they get their ids, iirc01:15
llnzor type01:15
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llnzit's on my list to fix01:15
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mithroandrei: ping?01:25
andreimithro, pong01:27
mithroandrei: want some feedback on the application?01:27
andreimithro, Yes please01:27
mithroandrei: okay - you need some more solid goals01:27
mithroIE The AI will be able to colonise planets etc01:28
andreiAh, okies. I'll add that in tomorrow01:28
andreiThe idea is for it to be able to play a full game01:29
mithroandrei: I know that your idea is more "natural"01:29
andreiSo colonization is a requirement :)01:29
mithroBut I'm a skeptic, so you'll need to show how and when you are going to meet real world goals01:30
andreimithro, Natural? Not at at all. It's just using actual AI techniques; most game AIs don't at all01:31
andreimithro, Okies, what would convince you?01:31
andreimithro, I can cite relevant research papers?01:31
mithroandrei: I want hard and fast goals01:31
mithroIE The AI will be able to do XYZ01:31
andreimithro, Okies01:32
mithroandrei: I also want less theory and more practical information01:33
mithroI don't expect to understand how it will work, but I want to see it doing so in good steps01:33
andreimithro, You mean more concrete goals? or something else?01:35
mithroandrei: yes01:35
mithroA goal like "inference engine works" is useless to me, a goal "AI is able to defeat tpsai-py" is a good one01:36
andreimithro, Sure; I'll add that tomorrow01:37
mithroandrei: being able to package your stuff as a C++ library (so that nobody knows it is scheme) would be a bit plus01:37
andreimithro, Heh, sure; I can do that01:37
andreimithro, I was planning on having C bindings to it01:37
mithroneed to know more about your commitments, amount of time you plan to put in01:37
mithroetc01:37
andreimithro, Oh. I assumed that full time was implied for SoC01:38
mithroandrei: full time means different things to different people :)01:38
mithroandrei: some information on your experiance with current open source stuff (if any)01:38
Landon"Full time.... between my other 3 jobs"01:38
mithrobblr have to hang out washing01:39
andreimithro, 40+ hours of work/week and I don't have another job is what full time means to me :)01:39
andreimithro, Okies, I can add more open source stuff.01:40
mithroandrei: well mention that - do you have any family commitments? IE have to help build a house, etc01:40
andreimithro, Heh, no; none01:40
andreimithro, I live far away from any family :)01:41
andreimithro, Sure, I'll make those changes tomorrow01:41
andreimithro, Thanks :)01:43
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greywhindmithro: sorry for not being around today to try to fix the packaging... I had to write an essay, and I just finished.01:57
mithrogreywhind: no probs01:57
mithroI've been relaxing and playing computer games01:57
mithrowe get a long weekend because of easter01:57
greywhindmithro: we had one as well, but I have school tomorrow, so i'm going to go sleep now01:59
mithrogreywhind: oh okay01:59
JLafontgreywhind: Good luck01:59
greywhindJLafont: on the sleep?02:00
mithrohey JLafont02:00
mithroJLafont: what are your applications again? Just an AI?02:01
JLafontgreywhind: Class02:01
greywhindJLafont: ah. thanks.02:01
JLafontmithro: Yeah, I was thinking of maybe doing one for a 3D client as well, but I don't know If I should make more than one proposal02:01
mithroJLafont: I would highly recommend it02:02
mithrowe are likely to only access a single AI proposal if we get a limited number of slots02:02
mithros/access/accept02:02
JLafontOk, I'll work on a 3D client proposal once I get back from break.02:03
JLafontI fly out tomorrow, so I'll probably have a 3D proposal for feedback by tuesday02:04
JLafontmithro, sorry to bug you, but did you manage to post the feedback on my application?02:04
mithroJLafont: no, I can have another read in a minute02:05
mithroJLafont: you heading to bed now?02:05
JLafontmithro: Ok, just wondering.02:05
JLafontmithro: No, I have to write an essay02:05
JLafontmithro: So I'll be here for at least an hour02:05
mithroJLafont: some of the above feedback for andrei will also apply to your proposal I think02:05
JLafontok02:06
mithroJLafont: do want email or IRC?02:09
JLafontmithro: Whichever one  you prefer02:09
mithroJLafont: I think you need to flesh out the middle of your application a little more - what/how are the sliders combined? how is the body of the AI going to work?02:13
mithrosome type of blueprint for the AI would be good02:13
mithroexpand on your experiance section02:14
JLafontOK, the sliders are just percentages. I guess I should be a little more clear on how those would work.02:15
JLafontmithro: By blueprint you mean like pseudocode?02:16
mithroyes02:16
JLafontmithro, ok thanks! I'll be sure to add more information.02:17
mithroJLafont: I would love to see a python-ogre client02:18
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JLafontyeah, I remember being able to put in lighting, shadows and objects in less than 10 minutes02:24
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mithroJLafont: libRCPS might be useful for an AI02:25
JLafontThe first time I compiled it I was astonished at how easy and fun it was02:25
mithroI have pondered using it in tpsai-py02:26
mithroas tpsai-py is all about project planning/resource allocation02:26
JLafontYeah, thats generally what I'm going for as well. I'll be sure to look into it02:27
JLafontWow, I feel like the RCPS manual is writing my code for me.02:32
mithrohe he02:33
mithroJLafont: I think a python-ogre client has a good chance for acceptance - specially since the competition seems less then in the AI area02:44
JLafontmithro: Yeah, AI is a hot topic these days. I've had a general idea for a 3D client for a while, so I'll be sure to submit that proposal as well. I'd probably try to focus more on a good GUI than models02:47
mithroyeah I agree02:47
mithrobut I think you could have a very very cool UI02:47
mithrowith things which fly out when you hover over stuff02:47
mithroetc02:47
Ohmgood morning02:49
Ohmmithro: you pinged me earlier?02:49
JLafontthat would be amazing. I'd try to make sure everything worked before I add all the special effects though. It would just be hard to keep  myself from working on it all the time02:49
mithroOhm: you where interested in the schemepy stuff?02:49
Ohmyes02:49
mithroJLafont: I've often wondered about using something like flash to make the UI a little more interesting02:49
mithroOhm: I would recommend applying for it with both us and PSF02:50
mithrothey seem interested in mentoring it02:50
OhmPSF are the ones who've produced schemepy?02:50
mithronope02:50
mithroI did :)02:50
Ohmhah, ok02:50
mithroPSF == Python Software Foundation02:50
Ohmah02:50
mithrothey do all Pythony stuff02:51
OhmThat's a really good tip, thanks02:51
mithroand schemepy is fairly general, not tp specific02:51
mithroOhm: make sure it's a good application - I'm happy to give feedback02:51
OhmI should be able to produce a first prototype by tomorrow evening02:53
mithroOhm: okay cool02:53
llnzbbs, dinner02:59
JLafontAlright time for me to go to sleep. Nite everyone03:13
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* llnz is back03:51
mithrohey llnz04:06
mithrohow goes GSoC prep?04:06
mithrobtw, do you have a copy of the ruleset book somewhere?04:06
llnzits in git, and at http://code.thousandparsec.net/~lee/ruleset-book.pdf iirc04:07
tpb<http://ln-s.net/1i_X> (at code.thousandparsec.net)04:07
mithroany updates recently?04:07
llnznope :-(04:07
llnzgsoc it getting interesting04:07
llnzlots of students04:07
mithroyeah04:08
llnzhumm... jotham isn't around04:17
llnzi'm in wellington tomorrow04:17
JLPmorning all06:58
llnzhi JLP06:58
mithrohey JLP07:01
JLPllnz, mithro: ahoy07:08
* llnz is not looking forward to tomorrow07:08
llnzup early for flight, then meeting to give a demo where I have nothing to show, then late flight back07:09
mithrollnz: sounds fun07:09
mithroJLP: do you have a windows computer?07:10
JLPmithro: nope, all 4 are 64-bit linux07:10
JLPah the servers seem to be back in order :)07:15
JLPoh SmokingRope, hello there, didn't see you yesterday07:18
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llnzlater all07:24
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JLPmithro: should there be a "don't show this again" option on the No Objects Warning dialog?07:30
mithroJLP: when I implement it07:30
JLPmithro: it looks like it pops up every time you update the universe after turn07:30
mithroJLP: well you probably should have objects is your are going through turns07:32
JLPmithro: not if you are logged in as gues and just watch the game07:33
mithroguess so....07:33
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CIA-13mithro tpclient-pywx-stable * r31e27c4aafd8 / (requirements.py version.py): Version bump (updated requirements too).07:58
CIA-13mithro tpclient-pywx-stable * ra485e7d2f265 /setup.py: Also include the Microsoft DLLs.07:58
CIA-13mithro web * r515d79f2b7b2 / (8 files in 4 dirs): Added 0.3.1 release of tpclient-pywx.08:11
mithroJLP: ping?08:28
JLPmithro: pong08:28
mithroyou pushed your change to a master branch again :/08:28
JLPmithro: i don't remember pushing anything after i pushed the translations to stable08:32
mithroJLP: it looks like you didn't push to stable08:32
mithroyou pushed to master08:32
JLPmithro: [09:06] <CIA-13> jlp tpclient-pywx-stable * r212676794228 /locale/sl/ (tpclient-pywx.mo tpclient-pywx.po): Updated Slovenian translations for the upcoming version 0.3.108:34
mithrohrm....08:34
mithrooh it looks like you did08:34
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mithroJLP: want to check the 0.3.1 release notes?08:39
JLPmithro: sure08:39
mithrosent08:39
JLPmithro: Objects on the map are always sorted alphabetically now08:47
JLPmithro: you mean in systems tree?08:47
mithroJLP: nope, in the starmap08:47
mithroin things like the pop-up08:47
JLPmithro: ah there08:48
mithrothe system should always be alphabetical08:48
mithroJLP: it makes things a little more predictable :)08:48
JLPmithro: There are also been numerous fix for... -> There have also been numerous fixes for...08:50
JLPor There are also numerous ...08:50
mithroJLP: want to post the announcement? :)08:50
JLPmithro: yup, can do08:50
mithrothanks, I'm pretty tired08:51
mithroI should be in bed08:51
mithrowe don't have Mac and Windows binaries yet08:51
CIA-13mithro tpclient-pywx-stable * r43ab0b3140c8 /TODO:08:53
CIA-13Updated the TODO a little.08:53
CIA-13 (Testing the new update hook.)08:53
JLPmithro: i think it's better to wait for them to be finished before writing the new08:53
mithrouploading to sourceforge the window binaries08:54
JLPmithro: i'll try to get my cousin on jabber to test them, i think he still keeps windows around08:55
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JLPJLafont: ahoy08:58
JLafontallo JLP09:00
mithroJLP -> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1609689&group_id=132078&atid=72309909:01
tpbBug #1609689: Add link to main website from forum09:01
JLPmithro: yeah i've already been thinking about this09:02
CIA-13mithro web * rbb644a461771 /downloads/tpclient-pywx/ (2 files): Added the windows binaries.09:10
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mithroJLP: windows binaries uploaded09:27
mithroJLP: think of anything else which needs to be done before I head to bed?09:35
JLPmithro: i can't think of anything09:39
mithroJLP: okay09:39
mithroI'll reply to some of the GSoC applications tommorrow09:40
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JLPSontariel: ahoy09:56
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SontarielJLP, hi :)09:57
JLPSontariel: here for gsoc?09:58
Sontarielmaybe09:58
Sontarieli found your project there09:58
Sontarielim intrested in gamedev09:59
bddebianHi folks09:59
JLPSontariel: cool, so you're probably checking out what tp is all about and if there is anything that would be interesting on the ideas list09:59
JLPbddebian: ahoy10:00
bddebianHello jlp10:00
JLPSontariel: btw, are you a gentoo user too?10:03
SmokingRopegood morning10:03
Sontarielyes10:03
SontarielJLP, yes10:03
bddebianGentoo?  What the hell is wrong with all these people? ;-P10:04
ezodspeaking of gentoo10:04
Sontariel%)10:04
JLPSontariel: nice, a lot of us gentoo users here :) andrei and i think ezod too10:04
Sontarielnice :)10:04
ezodi was pinging you about those ebuilds yesterday JLP10:05
JLPezod: yeah i've seen, i've been sleeping10:05
ezodi took some input from andrei's as well, and i've got a real nice set now10:05
ezodi know a couple people who do ebuild reviews for sunrise, i'll see if i can get them in there10:06
JLPezod: awesome, mithro also wrote something about packages.thousandparsec.net10:06
ezodJLP: yep, i noticed10:06
JLPezod: if any of you know how to create a overlay that is easily accessable thru layman or something send those instructions to mithro10:06
ezodJLP: it's nothing difficult from mithro's end, but we need to get it added to the official layman list in order for 'layman -a thousand-parsec' or whatever to work10:08
JLPezod: yeah i thought so, don't remember seeing an option to add any URL to layman10:09
ezodwell, i'll see what i can do, i'll post the tree somewhere and link on the mailing list for comments first, i wanted andrei to have a look10:10
JLPezod: ok, cool10:11
ezodoh, question10:11
ezoder nm10:12
andreiezod, You want to add something to layman?10:19
ezodandrei: we're talking about tp ebuilds10:19
ezodJLP had already started some, and i was working on them10:20
ezodso i kind of merged yours into them also, including your client patch10:20
ezodmore dependency info, etc.10:21
andreiezod, Ah, okies.10:30
andreiezod, If you want to get them into layman though you have to send email to [email protected]10:32
andreiI sent one a few days ago but I haven't gotten a reply yet10:32
ezodyeah10:32
ezodi'll close a few arch testing bugs and then prod someone about it :)10:33
andreiHeh, okies. Another option is to add them to the gentoo tree but the bugzilla thing is a huge pain in the ass10:35
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ezodit would take forever right now10:35
andreiAnd because bugs and ebuilds go into the same bin noone feels obliged to look at the ebuilds10:35
ezodwell, gentoo has a lot less devs than previously10:35
andreiYup; I am unsurprised :)10:36
andreiI was a gentoo dev for ~1 month before I saw how it's run. Then I ran away screaming (this was.. 3-4 years ago)10:36
ezodhehe10:37
andreiI actually felt terrible using gentoo after seeing that. gentoo-core should definitely not be private10:37
JLPLukstr: hi10:37
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JLPEpyon: yo10:38
andreiezod, Are you a dev?10:38
ezodandrei: arch tester for sparc, i don't have time to be a dev ;)10:38
LukstrJLP, greetings10:38
ezodandrei: although this summer i might sign up10:38
andreiezod, Nice :)10:39
ezodandrei: btw, you're at waterloo?10:39
andreiezod, Well, if the stop sucking and open up I'd love to sign up too :P10:39
andreiezod, Not anymore. I'm at Purdue now10:40
ezodah10:40
andreiezod, You're a student there?10:40
ezodnah, windsor10:40
andreiezod, Ah nice, in CS?10:40
ezodee10:40
ezodi know a lot of cs/ee people at waterloo though, is why i asked10:40
andreiezod, Heh; I kind of got sucked into the EE department at Purdue10:41
Lukstrezod, what year?10:41
andreiezod, For some reason they feel it proper to put AI research in EE not CS..10:41
ezodLukstr: grad students mostly..10:41
Lukstrezod, ah10:41
LukstrI know a bunch of sydes10:41
ezodandrei: it's all the same, my research is distributed algorithms and computer vision, which are both traditionally cs topics10:42
* ezod hits the Off-Topic Gnome for 5 damage10:43
andreiezod, Heh, nice10:43
andreiezod, My advisor's main research are is vision10:43
ezodwe have a vision/ai group at windsor10:45
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andreiezod, Awesome; I had no clue10:46
andreiezod, I haven't really been keeping up with what's going in the gentoo leadership lately10:59
andreiezod, Are things looking better?10:59
* Lukstr has a crappy laptop battery11:00
Lukstrlater all11:00
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EpyonJLP, yo :)11:10
SmokingRopeI have put together a first draft of my Ogre 3D Client proposal if anyone would want to take a look:11:22
SmokingRopehttp://easlnx01.eas.muohio.edu/~hannasm/thousand_parsec_proposal.html11:22
tpb<http://ln-s.net/1ifg> (at easlnx01.eas.muohio.edu)11:22
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EpyonSmokingRope, hint : non-codeproducing research should be done before the program start11:24
EpyonThat is if you want to maximize your chances :)11:24
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_brennanwoo GSOC apps start today, i should probably start typing mine, lol11:25
EpyonHint 2: calculate the risks involved, and write how you will deal with them11:26
EpyonHint 3: do a mockup or give some implementation/design ideas11:27
EpyonHint 4: clearly state the deliverables -- what you plan on having when the project ends11:27
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SmokingRopei tried to hint at the pre-start research but i'll refine my definition a bit11:33
SmokingRopei've got a intense class load, so *working it out before hand* is somewhat of a non-option unfourtanetly11:33
JLPSmokingRope: you can also link to your existing code where you have been playing with ogre and stuff11:34
JLPSmokingRope: also include the info on how many hours per day/week you plan for working on this11:35
SmokingRopemaybe i could mention that classes end may 9th and will be ready to begin shortly thereafter11:35
JLPSmokingRope: yeah that would be a good think to include11:36
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ezodandrei: sorry, took off for a bit. yes, i would say generally, things are looking up from, say, the past couple of years :)11:49
ezodandrei: it really came to a head around new years with the whole drobbins thing, etc.11:50
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ezodJLP, andrei: http://mavrinac.com/projects/tp/overlay/17:12
tpbTitle: Index of /projects/tp/overlay (at mavrinac.com)17:13
andreiezod, I'll take a look17:13
andreiezod, Fancy. Manifests, changelogs, metadata files :P Way more work than I'd ever do17:14
ezodcool, i had to do an evil patch on tp-pywx-installed to make it work with the gentoo games dirs17:14
ezodandrei: JLP had already done most of that when he was trying to get it into the tree17:14
ezodah, i forgot about the locales stuff in tpclient-pywx17:15
JLPezod: awsome, thanks again for working on this17:15
ezodnp17:16
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ezodi didn't use setup.py in tpclient-pywx because it doesn't do gentoo games dir stuff, not sure if what i did was the right approach :\17:18
ezodlooks kludgy to me17:18
andreiezod, I opted to ignore the whole gentoo games thing :p17:19
andreiJLP, When you get around to it; could you look at my SoC proposal?17:20
andreihttp://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~abarbu/soc/thousand-parsec17:20
tpb<http://ln-s.net/1iXj> (at csclub.uwaterloo.ca)17:20
JLPandrei: oh, will have a look, i have another one open but keep getting distracted, the last distraction that is now gone is familiy visiting for holidays :)17:22
JLPoh yeah happy easter to all17:22
andreiJLP, Heh; thanks :)17:26
JLPoh i see the submition of applications to google system has already been opened17:28
mithroyou should be using setup.py and using the --prefix stuff?17:54
JLPandrei: nice an detailed proposal, you should also add the times to delivarables, and maybe break down thse delivarables into a bit more detail17:55
JLPandrei: i also miss risk managment section, what if some bad thing happens, what is planned to minimise the affect on TP and completion of the gsoc project17:56
andreiJLP, Sure; I'll both in17:57
andreierm add17:57
mithrowell we have the first official application17:58
JLPmithro: what's the link to mentors interface again17:58
andreiJLP, Any other comments or concerns?17:58
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JLPoh i see a new proposal for ruleset on forum17:59
JLPeasy_code: ahoy17:59
easy_codemsg/ JLP oh, um no. i was just intrested in you google summer of code program18:01
JLPeasy_code: cool, any particular idea cought your interest18:01
JLPmithro: does graywhind usually do the mac os packages?18:02
mithroyes18:04
mithros/graywhind/greywhind18:04
Epyondamn americans :P18:06
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JLPanyone knows Tigris and Euphrates board game?18:42
ezodJLP: heard of it, but that's all18:52
mithroJLP: want to add more "ranks" to the Forums?18:54
JLPok looks like a very interesting ruleset to port into space environemnt18:54
JLPmithro: sure, if anyone has any imagination for the names of them :)18:54
mithroJLP: go have a look at the FreeOrion forums? :)18:55
mithroCool to see that PocketPC client stuff18:55
JLPmithro: yeah i recongnised space krill form there18:55
greywhindmithro: want to do some troubleshooting of the packaging now?18:55
mithrogreywhind: I'm at work, but I may be able to do a little18:55
greywhindmithro: so do you still think I should reinstall everything?18:56
greywhindoh, and should I register on the forums?18:56
mithrogreywhind: well - give it a fresh go now and see what happens18:56
JLPmithro: i'll check out the ranks from FreeOrion and Stars! Autohost forums and probably do a mix  of them and maybe throw in one of my dubious ideas in18:59
mithrohe he18:59
mithrofeel free to ask for suggestions19:00
JLPmithro: i'll add the page about that to wiki19:00
mithrookay19:00
mithroI think the post count should grow pretty quickly19:01
mithroIE First rank change at 5 then 15, 40, 70, 150, 200, 500, 1000 ?19:01
mithroJLP: can you also add llnz as an admin and give me the ability to add admin users?19:02
JLPmithro: i think llnz is already in admin group19:02
mithroJLP: wasn't the last time I check?19:03
mithroJLP: btw - you have all the site-ground details right? So if I get hit by a bus you can take over owner ship of the site?19:03
ApacheChiefHey Mithro, could I bother you for a minute or two? (or anyone else :))19:03
mithroApacheChief: I would recommend just asking on the channel19:04
ApacheChiefalright19:04
JLPmithro: yeah i think i have everything needed19:04
mithroI may or may not have time depending on the question19:04
ApacheChiefWell, I've been doing a lot of research on possible web clients, but I haven't found any decent solutions yet.  With PHP/HTML I figure I'll hvae to keep re-connecting to the server every time I issue a request or anything like that, which doesn't seem very smooth -- am I right about that?19:05
JLPmithro: yeah llnz is listedin admins, global moderators and registered users19:05
JLPadmins being the default19:05
mithroApacheChief: you will need some type of proxy running on the server to stop the need for multiple connections19:05
mithrowhich could be something like fastcgi or something19:06
mithroor your own daemon19:06
ApacheChiefAlright, I'll keep researching using a couple of those words that I'm not familiar with--thanks :)19:06
greywhindmithro: well, I still am getting the error "AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'VisualAttributes_font_get'"19:06
mithrogreywhind: :/19:06
mithrogreywhind: I was successfully able to build a dmg on my 10.5 mac at home19:07
greywhindmithro: maybe I could upload my DMG and then someone could test it on another Mac and tell me if they get the same error?19:09
mithrogreywhind: I don't really have access to a mac at the moment19:10
mithroanyone else here got a Mac?19:10
greywhindmithro: well, you could always check it later then tell me19:10
mithrowell currently the Mac dmg is the only thing holding back the release :(19:11
greywhindmithro: i'm going to try reinstalling wxWidgets19:11
mithrogreywhind: didn't you have multiple macs locally? - can you test with them?19:11
greywhindmithro: the others are running 10.3 :(19:12
greywhindi would have another 10.4, but it's in Georgia at the moment.19:12
mithrogreywhind: dang :/19:12
greywhindmithro: i'm just hoping this wxWidgets compile doesn't take hours...19:16
mithrocompile?19:16
greywhindmithro: they seemed to only have an official source distribution for mac19:17
greywhindso i'm compiling it19:17
mithroi'm sure they have binaries19:17
mithrohttp://downloads.sourceforge.net/wxpython/wxPython2.8-osx-unicode-2.8.7.1-universal-py2.5.dmg19:17
tpb<http://ln-s.net/1ZSA> (at downloads.sourceforge.net)19:17
greywhindmithro: i see19:19
mithrocompiling from source will break stuff :(19:19
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JLPvi1985: hey, congrats for the firs official applicai19:19
JLPapplication19:20
vi1985JPL, thanks :) I slaved on it for a while... now time to catch up on coursework :))19:20
greywhindmithro: your link breaks my browser..19:20
mithrogreywhind: ?19:20
greywhindmithro: causes my browser to crash19:21
JLPvi1985: btw you will be able to edit it and fix the mistakes once one of the mentors adds a comment19:21
mithrogreywhind: curl :)19:21
mithrocurl http://downloads.sourceforge.net/wxpython/wxPython2.8-osx-unicode-2.8.7.1-universal-py2.5.dmg > wxPython2.8-osx-unicode-2.8.7.1-universal-py2.5.dmg19:21
tpb<http://ln-s.net/1ZSA> (at downloads.sourceforge.net)19:21
greywhindmithro: nah, Firefox works19:21
vi1985JLP: oh, ok, great. BTW, what is the usual applicant/acceptance ratio, and what are you guys expecting this year?19:21
vi1985JLP: those weren't serious mistakes though.. maybe I was just being pedantic :)19:22
mithrovi1985: last year we have 4 students out of 50 applications, we are hopeing to get more slots this year19:22
JLPvi1985: yeah it was like 1:10, it would be nice to have something like 1:5 this year as is the case in kde i think19:23
vi1985JLP:    :0 It's tougher than grad school ;)19:23
JLPvi1985: yeah it is not exactly a piece of cake :) that's why it is so important to talk to the mentors before and to put as much effort as possible into the application19:24
mithrowhat was the overall acceptance rate?19:24
mithrovi1985: the AI stuff is going to be tough, it looks like at a minimum we will get 3 very good applications19:25
vi1985JLP: I hope that showed in my application ;)19:25
JLPvi1985: maybe putting two application in also helps a bit with the odds19:25
easy_codewhat was the reason so many students were rejected?19:25
vi1985mithro: thx for the heads up.. .everyone wants to play mad scientist! :P19:25
mithroeasy_code: we only got a very small number of slots from google19:26
JLPeasy_code: limited number of slots that google has and distributes among organizations19:26
vi1985JLP: if I put even 1/3 of the effort in designing additional project proposals, I'll be doing it all week long!19:27
vi1985JLP: Besides, AI is _really_ what I want to do, so I'll take the chance :)19:28
JLPvi1985: yeah i know, but then again you can reuse some parts and experiences from the first one, and additional high quality application can mean that we get more slots in the end and you can put the second application for the idea that maybe gets less competition19:28
greywhindmithro: rebuilding the package again19:29
mithrogreywhind: I have my fingers crossed19:29
greywhindmithro: oh, so do I...19:29
*** Lukstr is now known as Lukstr|Food19:30
vi1985JLP: what would be a project that people haven't shown much interest in for TP?19:30
* JLP bows a few times into the direction of Cupertino :)19:31
mithroLast year Google received nearly 6,200 applications.19:31
JLPvi1985: hm the protocol libraries testing suite would be very usefull19:32
greywhindmithro: same error.19:32
mithrogreywhind: :(19:32
mithromy only other suggestion is to remove your Python install completely and then reinstall19:33
JLPvi1985: i laso hope to see more applications for development tools, to make it easier to build rulesets for example19:33
greywhindmithro: i may... i'm going to try just numpy first19:33
mithroactually - did you google for the error?19:33
greywhindmithro: hmm... no, i didn't, surprisingly enough19:34
mithrobtw, it will put logs in ~/.tp/ now19:34
vi1985JLP: JLP: I see that most of what's on TP is done on Python. Would development in Java be a problem?19:34
mithroinstead of the old logs.txt19:34
vi1985JLP: Java is my mother tongue, you know ;P19:34
JLPvi1985: i don't think so, we already have one development tool in java19:34
JLPvi1985: http://git.thousandparsec.net/gitweb/gitweb.cgi?p=tpruledev.git;a=summary19:36
tpb<http://ln-s.net/1b_u> (at git.thousandparsec.net)19:36
JLPvi1985: there is also a protocol library in Java19:36
vi1985JLP: hm... I really would rather be selected for AI dev. (especially since I put in a lot of thought into the design!), but then again, doing something else isn't that bad at all :)19:36
vi1985JLP: let me check the link out...19:37
JLPvi1985: java lib - http://git.thousandparsec.net/gitweb/gitweb.cgi?p=libtpproto-java.git;a=summary19:38
tpb<http://ln-s.net/1iqA> (at git.thousandparsec.net)19:38
mithroJLP: tpruledev is written in python19:38
mithroJLP: you are thinking of starmapper :)19:39
mithrowhich is an external project19:39
JLPvi1985: as i said two applications in two different categories can help, because it is highly probable that there will be more great applications where people have put a lot of thought into it and we will not have enough slots for all of what we would like to accept19:39
mithrohttp://starmapper.sourceforge.net/wikka/HomePage19:39
tpb<http://ln-s.net/1apo> (at starmapper.sourceforge.net)19:39
vi1985JLP: yeah, I've had the chance to browse through the libtpproto-java library already.19:40
JLPmithro: oh, maybe he just did the prototpes in java19:40
mithroJLP: yeah the prototypes where in Java19:40
vi1985JLP: statistically, youre right :)19:40
JLPmithro: ah that's why i still have in my mind that tpruledev is in java19:41
mithrowe need someone to give tpruledev some love19:41
greywhindmithro: from googling, a similar question on a mailing list gave this answer: "Thank you! Removing the old dist folder before py2exe-ing indeed did the trick."19:42
vi1985JLP: Ah... I'll just ride it out as it is. I've got two big projects in data structures and computability to finish before the exams... I wish I could give it more time.19:42
mithrogreywhind: well - I guess give it a go19:43
* vi1985 *Life*19:43
vi1985JLP: plus, i've got some faith in my current proposal ;)19:43
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JLPvi1985: yeah this nasty life19:43
greywhindmithro: nope. :(19:44
vi1985JLP: lol, it's bearable, just too many things to do! :) Anyway, i got to get back to my project... thanks for the help, though, I appreciate it!19:45
mithrogreywhind: actually have you tried the following19:45
* vi1985 *Does not like proving properties of Turing machines*19:45
mithrocg-clean -D19:46
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mithrocg-clean -D -x19:46
mithroand a19:47
mithrogit reset --hard19:47
greywhindmithro: trying it19:47
mithrothat should remove every rements of previous builds19:47
greywhindmithro: i had to do the scratchpad setup again19:48
mithrogreywhind: yes19:48
greywhindso i'd assume it's all clean19:48
mithroa19:49
mithrocg-status -w19:49
mithroshould output nothing19:49
greywhindmithro: success!!!19:50
mithrooh?19:50
greywhindmithro: that was apparently the problem.19:50
mithromaybe we should make that part of the build process19:50
greywhindmithro: probably a good idea19:51
andreiJLP, Hi19:51
greywhindclean everything, re-do the setup, then build the app19:51
JLPandrei: ahoy19:51
greywhindmithro: now, this is a fully updated build... is that what you want for the release? or is there a previous tag I should build at?19:52
mithroI have not pushed any new changes19:53
andreiJLP, I wanted to ask about my proposal; I'm not quite sure what else to add to the deliverables. I made a risk management section and added a comment about speed. But I'm not quite sure what other risks you had in mind?19:53
greywhindmithro: ok then. the package is built. where do i upload it again?19:53
mithrogreywhind: upload it to your public_html again19:54
greywhindmithro: you'll have to remind me of the exact command, i'm afraid19:55
mithroscp <file> [email protected]:~/public_html/19:55
JLPandrei: for example if you would go with scheme, put down what you would do to minimise the risk in case you would not be able to continu work, for example like you said bindings, maybe you could try to invite some other scheme develoepr to join TP, since you know the scheme community, things like that19:55
JLPandrei: in more detailed delivarables i though about something like: * the AI can colonize a planet, the AI knows how to ...19:56
mithroI think it's going to be FSCKING hard to choose applications this year :)19:56
mithros/:)/:(/19:56
mithrowell I guess it is both a :) because it means we are getting high quality applications and :( because it sucks to reject good applications19:57
JLPmithro: yeah in kde they also say it ios getting harder, each year there are more high quality applications19:58
andreiJLP, Ah ok, I mentioned the colonization. I basically want it to do everything that's normal for a beginnig player. Colonize, attack, deal with economy, etc. Though each won't be of extremely high quality :)19:58
greywhindmithro: 6 minutes left19:58
mithrogreywhind: cool19:58
JLPandrei: yeah i know you probably have all this in mind, but  do break it down into "chewable" pieces so that the progress can also be nicely monitored19:59
mithro~seen bddebian19:59
tpbmithro: bddebian was last seen in #tp 9 hours, 54 minutes, and 56 seconds ago: <bddebian> Gentoo?  What the hell is wrong with all these people? ;-P19:59
andreiJLP, Okies19:59
JLPandrei: it has to be in some way that even a persion who knows nothing about the AI stuff or TP stuff can take something and check it out and see aha this point is reached20:01
greywhindmithro: it's done, by the way20:05
mithrogreywhind: cool20:07
greywhindany problems, let me know20:08
mithrogreywhind: I managed to save a whole 3mb in this release! :P20:08
greywhindpretty good20:08
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mithrohttp://www.thousandparsec.net/~nathan/20:08
tpbTitle: Index of /~nathan (at www.thousandparsec.net)20:08
mithrogreywhind: feel free to chuck up other tp related stuff there if you need to20:09
greywhindmithro: k20:09
_brennan_afkhey guys20:09
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JLPlooks like Stars! Autohost Forums use Star Trek ranks20:11
JLP_brennan: ahoy20:12
mithroMajor Ensin ;)20:13
Epyonmithro, JLP, how many 3d client proposals up to date?20:21
mithroEpyon: at the moment none - but I expect 1 before long20:21
EpyonI mean "expected" :)20:21
SmokingRopei am working on one :)20:22
EpyonI'm finalizing my ideas for this year's GSoC20:22
EpyonSo I can start writing apps tommorow20:22
JLPEpyon: my incomplete spy files show 2 interested in 3d client20:22
mithroI think Jlafont is doing a python-ogre 3d client proposal20:23
JLPmithro: yup, the other one is jmtan20:23
SmokingRopemithro: did you get the 0.3.1 client fixed ?20:24
_brennanhey, anything proposals for the metaserver? i know one guy was posting other then myself on the forums, anyone else?20:26
mithroSmokingRope: I think it was server issues20:26
mithroSmokingRope: can you give the windows binary on sf a go?20:26
JLP_brennan: hm i only have you listed as interested into metaserver20:27
_brennanok, well now that i finally kinda got a grip on how it was working thanks to mithro giving me those details the other day, im gonna start working on my proposal20:28
JLP_brennan: ah no, there are two of you20:28
_brennank20:28
mithroJLP: do you want to post your cheat-sheet on Google Docs and share it with me? :)20:29
JLPmithro: sure20:29
SmokingRopemithro: it seems to work now20:30
JLPSmokingRope: i think it was something wrong with the servers20:30
JLPSmokingRope: they also weren't working for me yesterday20:30
mithroSmokingRope: cool - that had all the dll's in it you needed?20:33
SmokingRopeit had the dll's20:33
SmokingRopei think i remember how you can remove the dependency entirely20:35
JLPmithro: what is your google account20:35
SmokingRopein the project property pages go to c++->code generation->runtime library and set it to the non dll versions20:36
mithro[email protected]20:36
mithroSmokingRope: ahh, but this is a python project :)20:36
mithrono compiling here20:36
SmokingRopethat doesn't apply for python projects20:37
EpyonI'm toying with the idea of a OGRE/C++ 3d client proposal myself :>20:37
JLPmithro: invitation for collaboration sent20:38
SmokingRopehave you worked with Ogre before?20:38
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JLPnightlyhawk: ahoy there20:39
EpyonSmokingRope, nope. But it can't be harder than writing a 3d client yourself :P20:39
nightlyhawkhi guys20:39
Epyon3d engine*20:40
mithroJLP: thanks20:40
mithroEpyon: you should investigate python-ogre it's like C++ ogre but a hundred times more fun :)20:40
nightlyhawki really appreciate your collection of links on writing proposals as well as your list of selection criteria :)20:41
Epyonmithro, I don't feel proficient with python, and I much more need to extend my c++ skills :P20:42
JLPnightlyhawk: great to know or work is usefull :)20:42
JLPnightlyhawk: any idea especially grabbed your interest?20:42
mithronightlyhawk: we also appreciate any additions or similar to add to that page20:43
nightlyhawkJLP: i am very interested in AI stuff. the AI client sounds like a good challenge20:46
JLPnightlyhawk: the AI club is getting quite large :)20:46
JLPnightlyhawk: i think you are like 4th or 5th20:47
nightlyhawkJLP: i can understand why. AI's quite fun to work at :D20:47
SmokingRopei don't think the server is sick again20:48
SmokingRope*do think20:49
nightlyhawkmithro: some mentors seem to like it if the proposal also includes a bit on the personal motivation of the student. like why he/she is interested in the particular project. don't know if that's true for you as well. but if so, you could add that to the list20:51
JLPnightlyhawk: yeah it is a nice thing to add, you can also register and edit the page yourself, wiki remeber20:52
mithronightlyhawk: yes, that is very good20:53
mithroSmokingRope: oh, what is happening now?20:53
SmokingRopei can't even login with the guest account ?20:53
SmokingRopeit wasn't me!20:53
mithrolooks like demo1 is dead :(20:56
nightlyhawkJLP: done :)21:01
JLPnightlyhawk: cool21:02
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bddebianHowdy21:06
JLPbddebian: ciao21:07
bddebianHello JLP21:07
JLPbddebian: i think mithro was looking for you before21:08
mithrohey bddebian21:08
mithro0.3.1 release uploaded21:09
mithrojust not announced yet21:09
bddebianUh oh.. :-)21:09
bddebianHi mithro21:09
bddebianYeah I was hoping to start on some packages tonight maybe21:09
bddebianBut it sounds like everyone loves Gentoo so I decided not to do it...21:10
* bddebian hides21:10
mithrobddebian: no, just ignore the gentoo people21:11
* ezod stomps feet and screams21:13
bddebianheh21:14
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mithrotypical gentoo user ;)21:18
*** Lukstr|Food is now known as Lukstr21:22
JLPgood night @ all, see you in a few hours21:26
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bddebianGnight21:26
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jphrmithro: howdy22:03
jphrJLP: howdy?22:05
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mithrosorry was at lunch22:20
mithroback now22:20
jphrmithro: sokay22:21
jphrmithro: just wondering if you had possibly seen my draft proposal, and if so, did you have any pointers?22:22
bddebianmithro: libtpproto-py is up for Debian22:22
mithrobddebian: cool22:34
mithrojphr: I did and I do - but i'm at work so can't chat now22:35
jphrmithro: okay, when would be good to talk, or do you prefer an email?22:37
mithroi'll be around later tonight - in about 5-6 hours22:38
jphrmithro: I'll set my alarm :P (north american goonie here)22:38
mithroI can do email too22:38
jphrmithro: that would be appreciated, I can reply some time 12-18 hrs later at school22:38
jphrmithro: g'night22:42
mithrognight22:43
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bddebianHmm, wtf22:50
bddebianTraceback (most recent call last):22:50
bddebian  File "setup.py", line 115, in ?22:51
bddebian    shutil.copytree('graphics', graphicspath_temp)22:51
bddebian  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/shutil.py", line 111, in copytree22:51
bddebian    os.mkdir(dst)22:51
bddebianOSError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/tmp/buildd/tpclient-pywx-0.3.1/debian/tpclient-pywx/usr/share/tpclient-pywx/graphics'22:51
mithrohrm....22:53
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mithrobddebian: where you able to figure out what is causing that?23:20
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bddebianNot yet, I'm in the middle of a couple of things at once :-(23:22
mithrothe joys of being a packager? :)23:23
bddebianSomething like that :)23:23
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JLafontmwuahaha, I survived my flight23:40
mithroJLafont: yay!23:40
JLafontnow to fix my AI proposal and start the 3D client one23:43
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